23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreogan]

 Please dear baby Star-God-Child: don't prop up numerous violations of the reader-writer contract as a "feature" in your endings ever again.

Also: 


This was a joke. Please tell me this was a joke. Please dear baby Star-God-Child tell me this was a joke.

As for the "questions" you will address, the only question that matters is if you will repair the tripe that was handed to us. The only acceptable answer is "yes."

Modifié par Dreogan, 16 mars 2012 - 06:10 .

[Reptilian Rob]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Don't twist my words.

My logic is, because you're going to die one day, you make the most of each day, you do as much good as you can. And when you're knocking on death's door, you'll know that even though the ending sucked (you're dead, after all), the part in between was good.

You don't say, "Oh no, dying sucks so that makes everything in life I did suck!"

Don't twist our meanings.  We aren't necessarily talking about death or that being the end. We are saying the ending of a well thought out piece of fiction deserves more than this.
Agree or disagree. Hell's Bells, be neutral.
Do not interpret us so shallow and yourself so vast.

It's an analogy.

People in this thread saying: Ending sucked so everything about the series sucks is an appropriate anology to what I just said.

Actually, if you do amazing things in your life and after you have passed they mean nothing because of someone else's stupididty the fallout ripples back to your actions. 

The treaty of Versailles and Hitler would be a perfect example to that assertion. Going even further on that though, this isn't life nor will it ever be; this is a franchise that was promised to wrap up everything with complex and different endings. Which it did not, and what it did manage to do was destroy an entire series in the course of five minutes. 

If you disagree with our hate of the endings that is fine, but don't force the mouth of capitalism. We are consumers who are unsatisfied with a product, all 95% of us. http://www.whatdoest...s=mass effect 3

[cinderburster]

zegota wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

You're both missing the point.  Most of us aren't trying to dictate what Bioware should do, we're simply trying to let them know that something is wrong.

Whether they change it or not is, in the end, up to them.

If they do, maybe a small segment would like a poll, but they are NOT the majority.  I believe most of us would be content with a few more answers.

First of all, saying the ending is objectively wrong is the same as telling Bioware what to do.

And second of all -- are you joking? A pretty strong segment of the forum is outright saying that endorsing the idiotic indoctrination theory is the ONLY WAY to "fix" the game, and that if they don't release some free DLC saying "Lol it was all a dream guys shepard is okay <3" then BIOWARE IS DEAD TO MEEEE. Hell, there's a post literally a few posts up for yours that says exactly that. That the indoctrination is the CORRECT ENDING and it's what Bioware MUST IMPLEMENT.

So you're fine with the gaping plotholes and lack of exposition?

[Himmelstor]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

We are not.
The consenses among the dissatisfied is that the ending was wrong enough to constitute a change.
We don't do this because we think the game is bad.
We do this because the rest of the game was so goddamned good!

This is the post I was responding to initially that made me say that:

devSin wrote...

The ending makes it pretty irrelevant which moments are favorites. Does it really matter if they were good or great if I never have any desire to play through them again?

That's pretty much what I was saying.

In your opinion, the journey is important.
In our opinion, the ending is important because the journey was important.

[The Nur]

The thread is titled "On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening."

And yet they deftly played most of you into not discussing that ending (and yes, I mean that as singular not the incorrect plural used in the title) instead, most of this thread has been about the positive moments. More importantly (to Bioware anyway) is that it's helped coalesce all the many negative threads into this one for the time being, giving the illusion that the anger is dying down.

Brilliant move, Mr. Priestly! A thread titled "What was your favorite moment?" wouldn't have allowed you to steer people's minds off the ending nearly as efficiently!

That said, while I appreciate the desire to let us know we are being heard, it's really the response from Bioware and how you act or don't act on that response that truly matters to us. Here's hoping that we are more than "listened" to but that we are actually heard, regardless of our varied opinions.

[Omnike]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Then please, why don't you dismount from that high-horse of yours and explain it to us peons?

Why is my entire crew on the Normandy when they were with me on Earth 5 minutes ago? How did Joker walk away from a FTL ship-to-planet collision? If the relay exploding tore the Normandy to pieces, why didn't it hurt anything on Earth? Who created the StarChild? 

I still do not get why people keep implying everyone was on the Normandy... I completed it and I did not see everyone there at all, not even close.

Liara was with me on Earth riding in the APC to the transporter beam. Then she's climbing off the crashed Normandy with Joker.  They couldn't have sent a shuttle in to pick them up with the Reapers standing right there. How did she get from the streets of London to the Normandy?

Well the Reaper did chase after something when you woke up, why could what he chased after not be a shuttle that picked them up? Because he was present and because you think he would of hit the shuttle or could it be the fact your Shepard was unconscious for who knows how long there was plenty of time for the shuttle to land elsewhere and your team to reach it prior to waking up? Couldn't your team also been knocked away from your position by the blast and instead you woke up first and did not see them so went into the beam, you saw the Reaper leave prior so a shuttle could of landed and your team woke up after then. If you recall you also pass out on after going through the beam so again time becomes and unknown element and there is potentially time for them to have boarded the shuttle since the Reaper is already gone too after they woke up.

But you do see them. Charred to the ground. I had Tali and Garrus with me, and I doubt it was a coincidence that I saw a burnt Quarian and a burnt Garrus. Then Garrus gets out of the ship. Explain.

[ArmyKnifeX]

zegota wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

You're both missing the point.  Most of us aren't trying to dictate what Bioware should do, we're simply trying to let them know that something is wrong.

Whether they change it or not is, in the end, up to them.

If they do, maybe a small segment would like a poll, but they are NOT the majority.  I believe most of us would be content with a few more answers.

First of all, saying the ending is objectively wrong is the same as telling Bioware what to do.

And second of all -- are you joking? A pretty strong segment of the forum is outright saying that endorsing the idiotic indoctrination theory is the ONLY WAY to "fix" the game, and that if they don't release some free DLC saying "Lol it was all a dream guys shepard is okay <3" then BIOWARE IS DEAD TO MEEEE. Hell, there's a post literally a few posts up for yours that says exactly that. That the indoctrination is the CORRECT ENDING and it's what Bioware MUST IMPLEMENT.

You must paint houses for a living, because that's a BIIIIIIIG brush you're using.

Seriously, stop. You're inciting a flame war against passionate fans who really just want to see something good, something satisfying - emotionally, and intellectually. The Deus Ex Machina they gave us, with Shepard acting so completely out of character, left on its own...

If you thought the ending was fine, and it worked - good for you. But honestly, what's the harm to you if the ending is changed, or if it's revealed to be something else with a DLC? Are you going to lose sleep over it? Are you going to hate the new ending?

[jkflipflopDAO]

zegota wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...
We complain because we believe they did not follow their own established rules.

Complaining that it sucked is a time-honored tradition. Demanding it be changed -- OR ELSE!!! -- is not.

You can lay off the "Bioware Defense Force" angle for a while. You know this isn't even Bioware anymore, right? Doctor Ray and Doctor Greg no longer call the shots. Some slimey executive suit at EA headquarters runs Bioware now. Bioware has been indoctrinated by EA.

[Himmelstor]

zegota wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...
We complain because we believe they did not follow their own established rules.

Complaining that it sucked is a time-honored tradition. Demanding it be changed -- OR ELSE!!! -- is not.

Where the flying blue monkey did you hear "or else?"
And it didn't suck. The game was awesome.
The ending was the trouble.

[cinderburster]

cinderburster wrote...

zegota wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

You're both missing the point.  Most of us aren't trying to dictate what Bioware should do, we're simply trying to let them know that something is wrong.

Whether they change it or not is, in the end, up to them.

If they do, maybe a small segment would like a poll, but they are NOT the majority.  I believe most of us would be content with a few more answers.

First of all, saying the ending is objectively wrong is the same as telling Bioware what to do.

And second of all -- are you joking? A pretty strong segment of the forum is outright saying that endorsing the idiotic indoctrination theory is the ONLY WAY to "fix" the game, and that if they don't release some free DLC saying "Lol it was all a dream guys shepard is okay <3" then BIOWARE IS DEAD TO MEEEE. Hell, there's a post literally a few posts up for yours that says exactly that. That the indoctrination is the CORRECT ENDING and it's what Bioware MUST IMPLEMENT.

So you're fine with the gaping plotholes and lack of exposition?

Exposition is not the word I wanted.  It's too late for this conversation.

[mattp516]

Tylea002 wrote...

The ending had the most emotional moment in a video game of all time, for me. That one shot of the pure terror in Joker's face before the ship exploded was simply powerful and moving. Unfortunately, I had no idea why he was running, and also agree with a lot of the plot problems in the last 20 minutes, but hell a happy ending would not have been better, because Joker fighting for the ship, and then losing it (even though he doesn't technically), was an amazing and powerful image, which doesn't get enough credit due to the sequence it was featured in.

]

Agreed. First time seeing the ending movie was fantastic. And I agree with Merizan (been looking at her feed ) that the endings ARE VERY DIFFERENT. Yes, the ending movies are pretty much the same. But the actual endings to the story are radically different.

That said, plot holes DO need to be fixed. I can understand/rationalize most of it :

Relays did not destroy systems when they exploded because it was a different kind of explosion (using up energy to transmit Crucible signal instead of just being destroyed).

Joker wasn't running through a mass relay, but just using normal FTL - and he did this when he noticed the giant green/blue/red explosion coming from the Citadel - easily explained.

Many other small issues I have no problem with. My main issue is:

I want to know what happens after Shep breathes (the ONLY compelling evidence for indoc theory IMHO - and yes, I've seen it all) in the destroy ending, and how he/she got back to earth from the Citadel. Also I'd like to know if the indoc theory is actually true. 

Other than that.... I'm ok with the endings, tbh. They were emotional and not nearly as badly done as most of the flaming would like to suggest. xD

[EddySpeddy]

There were no good moments, having a **** ending ruined the entire game for me. Getting sick of you Bioware, used to be my favourite company, now you're just money grubbing DLC prats.

I thought Dragon Age II was bad, but I let it go because it's just a mid thing for the third, but this considering it was the big finish for the series, you end it like that? Or you just released an unfinished game so you can charge people for releasing an actual ending later on as a DLC?

Kthxbai, don't think I'll be buying another Bioware game.

[zegota]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

zegota wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Why is my entire crew on the Normandy when they were with me on Earth 5 minutes ago? How did Joker walk away from a FTL ship-to-planet collision? If the relay exploding tore the Normandy to pieces, why didn't it hurt anything on Earth? Who created the StarChild? 

Jeez, some hardcore fan you are. Everyone knows Joker got leg upgrades in ME2 ;-)

But seriously, you'll never get an answer to that last question. Never. If the Star Child weren't there, you'd just be asking who made the Reapers. You might as well demand that Mass Effect explain the creation of the universe.

Oh I see, you are just as clueless as the rest of us. Got it.

Fine.

Your crew is on the Normandy because they were shuttled back. I find it hilarious people keep using this argument, because if Shepard had gotten a call inside the Citadel saying "Hey, this is Joker. We picked up X and Y but it looks like the beam has stopped. Good luck in there," no one would have ever questioned it.

The Normandy gets torn apart because they're much closer to the Mass Relay explosion.

Not sure what you're talking about WRT the planet collision.

And, as I said, you'll never get an answer to the "Who created the Star Child" thing -- or, if you do, it'll be way down the line, and it'll be some seriously SWPrequel-level bull****. The fact that you think that's a question that needs answering makes me really wonder if you know what a "plot hole" actually is. You realize any answer Bioware can give you could just be followed up with "Well, but then who created THEM?"

[Dragoonlordz]

The Nur wrote...

The thread is titled "On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening."

And yet they deftly played most of you into not discussing that ending (and yes, I mean that as singular not the incorrect plural used in the title) instead, most of this thread has been about the positive moments. More importantly (to Bioware anyway) is that it's helped coalesce all the many negative threads into this one for the time being, giving the illusion that the anger is dying down.

Brilliant move, Mr. Priestly! A thread titled "What was your favorite moment?" wouldn't have allowed you to steer people's minds off the ending nearly as efficiently!

That said, while I appreciate the desire to let us know we are being heard, it's really the response from Bioware and how you act or don't act on that response that truly matters to us. Here's hoping that we are more than "listened" to but that we are actually heard, regardless of our varied opinions.

All threads on a single topic addressing a single element (should) be in a single thread. Sorry but thats what I think.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 mars 2012 - 06:11 .

[Vergil_dgk]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

I just finished the game last night.

Mass Effect and Shepard delivered some great moments for sure. That's one of the big reasons it's just such a shame about the ending. I was expecting Shepard to die - the build-up with all the saying goodbye etc. kinda indicated it would happen. I was ok with that, but not the way it was executed. I was actually ok right until the moment the "boy ai" showed up - the five or so minutes after that were truly gutting to experience - seeing a great trilogy kinda collapse before my eyes. Those final minutes made no sense and I felt like all the choiced I had made along the way made no difference at all. It's really sad, I was planning to go back and play through the trilogy again from the first game to the last and experience things in a different way - but the sheer stupidity of the ending has made me feel there is no point to it - no matter what I do, It'll end up in the same, deeply unsatisfactory way.

[Himmelstor]

zegota wrote...

Why do you argue this? You are satisfied, correct?  What does it matter what we want? You got what you wanted. Do you fear losing the ending you were satisfied with?

Yes. But more importantly, I feel like if Bioware caves on this bull****, it essentially means there's no such thing as art in video games anymore. Basically, there's no need for writers. Just put a call out in the forums -- "HEY GUYS, WHAT CHOO WANT TO HAPPEN IN THE END?" -- and go with the top 3 voted endings. That's absolutely what this community wants, and it's shameful. It's singlehandedly killing the concept of storytelling in a video game, and means it's incredibly unlikely any company -- especially Bioware -- is going to bother making an epic trilogy, or even a story focused game, anytime in the near future. Why would they? They get their game lambasted on review sites, promises of everlasting boycotts, and for what? They could have easily made Call of Duty: Space Warfare and made just as much money.

That's the eventual outcome of this. The David Jaffes of the world -- who say video games are fundamentally ill-suited to tell stories -- win. We get the shell of a conflict just as a backdrop so we can shoot Russians or Germans or whichever nationality fits into the next Modern Warfare.

Congratulations.

No.

I was once known as the Doctor for posting as Mordin Solus would speak. I would prefer Mordin live while curing the genophage - but it was appropriate and well-handled. I approved, applauded, hell I saluted the freaking television it was so well done. I would still prefer Mordin Solus live. But I will never ask for that change.

I was (suppose I still am) a diehard Talimancer.  I wanted an ending where I could see the house on Rannoch, and a happily ever after with the character I'd grown so attached to. But if the ending called for Shepard to die, handled appropriately, I would have been fine with it.

We are not asking for our own personal ending to be put in the game. (There are too many of us for that even if that was what we wanted. Haha.)

We argue the ending because there are flaws in the argument that leads to the final sacrifice, flaws in characterization established by Bioware.
We complain because we believe they did not follow their own established rules.

[jeweledleah]

Himmelstor wrote...

zegota wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...
We complain because we believe they did not follow their own established rules.

Complaining that it sucked is a time-honored tradition. Demanding it be changed -- OR ELSE!!! -- is not.

Where the flying blue monkey did you hear "or else?"
And it didn't suck. The game was awesome.
The ending was the trouble.

I'm guessing he means people who say that if the ending changes, they won't be buying DLC's or new bioware games.

and you know what?  we are perfectly within rights as paying consumers to decide that we are no longer the target audience of the company's products and take our business elsewhere.

if I come into a restourant for pancakes with fresh strawberries every sunday and suddenly, they give me waffles with whipped cream?  i WILl complain.  and I WILL demand that I get the pancakes I was promised.  I don't care how much someone else might like the waffles.  I was promised pancakes.  over and over.  and if they stick by their decision to serve waffles instead?  I'll just find a new place to get my pancakes with strawberries.  its simple.

[zegota]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...
If you thought the ending was fine, and it worked - good for you. But honestly, what's the harm to you if the ending is changed,

Addressed above. I seriously think the whole concept of video game storytelling is essentially destroyed by this community hissy-fit. I have on idea what company would ever want to even bother again.

or if it's revealed to be something else with a DLC? Are you going to lose sleep over it? Are you going to hate the new ending?

Yes, yes and yes.

[Dragoonlordz]

Omnike wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Then please, why don't you dismount from that high-horse of yours and explain it to us peons?

Why is my entire crew on the Normandy when they were with me on Earth 5 minutes ago? How did Joker walk away from a FTL ship-to-planet collision? If the relay exploding tore the Normandy to pieces, why didn't it hurt anything on Earth? Who created the StarChild? 

I still do not get why people keep implying everyone was on the Normandy... I completed it and I did not see everyone there at all, not even close.

Liara was with me on Earth riding in the APC to the transporter beam. Then she's climbing off the crashed Normandy with Joker.  They couldn't have sent a shuttle in to pick them up with the Reapers standing right there. How did she get from the streets of London to the Normandy?

Well the Reaper did chase after something when you woke up, why could what he chased after not be a shuttle that picked them up? Because he was present and because you think he would of hit the shuttle or could it be the fact your Shepard was unconscious for who knows how long there was plenty of time for the shuttle to land elsewhere and your team to reach it prior to waking up? Couldn't your team also been knocked away from your position by the blast and instead you woke up first and did not see them so went into the beam, you saw the Reaper leave prior so a shuttle could of landed and your team woke up after then. If you recall you also pass out on after going through the beam so again time becomes and unknown element and there is potentially time for them to have boarded the shuttle since the Reaper is already gone too after they woke up.

But you do see them. Charred to the ground. I had Tali and Garrus with me, and I doubt it was a coincidence that I saw a burnt Quarian and a burnt Garrus. Then Garrus gets out of the ship. Explain.

I saw a lot of burned bodies but they certainly were not recognisable or identifiable as my companions. I did not run down the slope with just them and I cannot claim those bodies were in any way recognisable facially or armour wise to say was them. Then again I ran down the hill with Ash and Vega.

[cinderburster]

zegota wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

You're both missing the point.  Most of us aren't trying to dictate what Bioware should do, we're simply trying to let them know that something is wrong.

Whether they change it or not is, in the end, up to them.

If they do, maybe a small segment would like a poll, but they are NOT the majority.  I believe most of us would be content with a few more answers.

First of all, saying the ending is objectively wrong is the same as telling Bioware what to do.

And second of all -- are you joking? A pretty strong segment of the forum is outright saying that endorsing the idiotic indoctrination theory is the ONLY WAY to "fix" the game, and that if they don't release some free DLC saying "Lol it was all a dream guys shepard is okay <3" then BIOWARE IS DEAD TO MEEEE. Hell, there's a post literally a few posts up for yours that says exactly that. That the indoctrination is the CORRECT ENDING and it's what Bioware MUST IMPLEMENT.

Okay.  HERE, this is what I meant to say previously: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779

All of this is why the endings are an example of bad writing.  If I purchased a novel that had an ending like this?  After searching for the chapter I apparently somehow skipped, I would tell my friends not to bother.

There you go.  Storytelling is paramount to me in games, and to see such a fantastic story capped off in such a ham-fisted way is incredibly sad.

[Nenya Higurashi]

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment

Ok, I feel better knowing that, at least, Bioware is reading our feelings so... Meh...Let me think about my favourite moment... probably Mordin's sacrifice, I was really touched by that and I don't even know why. It was just... great.

[Omnike]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

We are not.
The consenses among the dissatisfied is that the ending was wrong enough to constitute a change.
We don't do this because we think the game is bad.
We do this because the rest of the game was so goddamned good!

This is the post I was responding to initially that made me say that:

devSin wrote...

The ending makes it pretty irrelevant which moments are favorites. Does it really matter if they were good or great if I never have any desire to play through them again?

That's pretty much what I was saying.

In your opinion, the journey is important.
In our opinion, the ending is important because the journey was important.

Look closer. In that guy's opinion it's backwards: the journey's only important because the ending is important. Which is absurd.

Not really. He's saying the ending is important to us because we had such a good time with most of the game that the ending didn't feel justified. That's why we want it changed.