23455 réponses à ce sujet

[pharsti]

zegota wrote...

Omnike wrote...
You make it sound like we're being completely unreasonable. We're not all going to get up and say "They changed the ending! CHANGE THIS ENDING TOO!" We want it changed because it just doesn't follow what they've built it up to be. They copped out. Simple as that.

Are you kidding me? The minute Bioware announces a revised ending, nearly every single game fanbase in existence is going to start their own petition. A game company as big as Bioware completely rewriting their ending due to fan demands is big.

I agree with that Zegota, but how about giving us what we were told, we were specifically told it wouldnt boil down to choosing A, B or C.... and we all know how that went...

I for one dont want the endings changed, i want the endings to stay there, i want them intact.
But i also want closure, which they also promised, and that they could do just fine with a simple epilogue like DA:O had, based on your choices throughout the game, get a written epilogue, cheap, but acceptable.

Or they could ADD endings, as in, leave the ones that are there alone, just add more based, again, on our choices, instead of just letting every single character get presented with a choice that decides the end at the last minute.

And i am someone who, despite not changing my position that, ultimately, we were lied to, still accept the endings, as long as theyre provided with a freaking closure and explanation (especially for all that teleportations squadmates and Normandy issue).

[Omnike]

zegota wrote...

Omnike wrote...
 Did you see every other game's fanbase outcry to have the ending to their game changed?

Yup. Final Fantasy XIII, XIII-2, pretty much every Kingdom Hearts game except the first one, Halo 2, Halo 3, the latest Call of Duty, LA Noire, Borderlands...

In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of a game or game series that WASN'T met with outrage from an extremely vocal subset of the community. Which, again, is just part of the business. But when gamers get word that they can force companies to change their endings with online petitions?

Holy.

****.

If there's anything gamers love, it's drama, ****ing, and Internet slacktivism. Put it all together, and watch the blood come out. Any company that refuses to give in to the community's demands gets an instant 0 on the metacritic, 1 star on Amazon. Coverage in all the game mags. UNLIMITED POWAR!

Then it was not nearly as large of an outcry. I heard nothing of Halo 2 or 3. Kingdom Hearts as a whole blows (that's just my opinion) and I hardly heard much about that anyway. I haven't heard much reaction period to any Final Fantasy after X. LA Noire got a pretty mediocre review around the board so I can't imagine a huge fanbase developing for that. None of those games have produced the fanbase that Mass Effect has and it's very clear. The ripple that Mass Effect 3 fans have made over the ending dwarfs anything you saw on the other games.

[jeweledleah]

Tannaraz wrote...

Sunnyhat1 wrote...

This is an issue of semantics really.

The petition isn't really about scrapping the current ending. It's about building on it.

The current ending is fine. Expand it a bit and it can be one of the bad endings. "Demand a better ending" can easily be interpreted as a call to completely rewrite the ending that is there. But what the protesters really want is an expansion of the ending. With more feedback on their choices and a couple completely different (and brighter) endings aswell.

So there should really be no grudge between the people who like the ending and those who go "against" it. Our viewpoints are totally compatible.

This a thousand times.

I wish.  its like the conversation about squadmates surviving all over again.  becasue you see, adding other options "invalidates" existing endings.

[zegota]

wook77 wrote...
Or classical. Maybe Leonardo da Vinci isn't an artist because he changed his art based on the whims of his patron(s). Or Michaelangelo, either.

Dude, working under the guidance of a patron and rearranging a story based on majority rule is so fundamentally different I don't even know where to start. There's difference between Bioware's owners saying "You should do a science fiction story" and the community saying "I didn't like your story, therefore you should change it for me."

[ArmyKnifeX]

zegota wrote...

wook77 wrote...
Or classical. Maybe Leonardo da Vinci isn't an artist because he changed his art based on the whims of his patron(s). Or Michaelangelo, either.

Dude, working under the guidance of a patron and rearranging a story based on majority rule is so fundamentally different I don't even know where to start. There's difference between Bioware's owners saying "You should do a science fiction story" and the community saying "I didn't like your story, therefore you should change it for me."

Considering we didn't get ME3 for free...

[zegota]

Omnike wrote...
The ripple that Mass Effect 3 fans have made over the ending dwarfs anything you saw on the other games.

Obviously. Mass Effect is a huge series with a massive, devoted fanbase. Which is the reason a Bioware cave here is going to affect the entire industry so strongly. I will bet you 5,000 Internet Points right now that the day Bioware announces some Ending DLC (which will probably be next week sometime), we see a massive "Change the Ending!" petition pop up for a big-name game, if not several.

Anyway, off to bed now. Have fun.

[frozn89]

Regardless of how I feel about the ending, the rest of ME3 = GOTY for me. Having said that, I really do hope for a story continuation post-ending DLC pack.

[zegota]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

zegota wrote...

wook77 wrote...
Or classical. Maybe Leonardo da Vinci isn't an artist because he changed his art based on the whims of his patron(s). Or Michaelangelo, either.

Dude, working under the guidance of a patron and rearranging a story based on majority rule is so fundamentally different I don't even know where to start. There's difference between Bioware's owners saying "You should do a science fiction story" and the community saying "I didn't like your story, therefore you should change it for me."

Considering we didn't get ME3 for free...

LOL@Thinking that buying someone's game/book/painting means you own their company.

[Omnike]

zegota wrote...

Omnike wrote...
The ripple that Mass Effect 3 fans have made over the ending dwarfs anything you saw on the other games.

Obviously. Mass Effect is a huge series with a massive, devoted fanbase. Which is the reason a Bioware cave here is going to affect the entire industry so strongly. I will bet you 5,000 Internet Points right now that the day Bioware announces some Ending DLC (which will probably be next week sometime), we see a massive "Change the Ending!" petition pop up for a big-name game, if not several.

Anyway, off to bed now. Have fun.

So Fallout 3... did none of the things you're saying it will if Bioware does it. And even if other small groups say "change the ending!", they won't listen to the small 1-5% that want the ending changed. But when 75-90% of the fanbase is not content with something, you've probably done it wrong.

[malakim2099]

zegota wrote...

Omnike wrote...
The ripple that Mass Effect 3 fans have made over the ending dwarfs anything you saw on the other games.

Obviously. Mass Effect is a huge series with a massive, devoted fanbase. Which is the reason a Bioware cave here is going to affect the entire industry so strongly. I will bet you 5,000 Internet Points right now that the day Bioware announces some Ending DLC (which will probably be next week sometime), we see a massive "Change the Ending!" petition pop up for a big-name game, if not several.

Anyway, off to bed now. Have fun.

I would disagree... unless of course, the ending is really really BAD. You know, like this one is.

[Rain Bringer6]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, I apologize if it has. I stand by the joke (and sad reality) that the ending of this game has its players go through the stages of grief. We came to this game to enjoy it, and we had that stripped from us. Call us entitled, call us angry, call us irrational, but the reality of the situation is that everyone who came here to complain is one simple thing: hurt. They're willing to accept whatever catharsis they can receive to take the pain away that they were emotionally robbed of an ending to something we've all invested(not in a monetary sense) in to.
Once again, I bet it's been said a bit, but since Bioware is supposedly listening to the people who played this game, I figured I'd add my thoughts. Hopefully every little bit counts.

[ArmyKnifeX]

zegota wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

zegota wrote...

wook77 wrote...
Or classical. Maybe Leonardo da Vinci isn't an artist because he changed his art based on the whims of his patron(s). Or Michaelangelo, either.

Dude, working under the guidance of a patron and rearranging a story based on majority rule is so fundamentally different I don't even know where to start. There's difference between Bioware's owners saying "You should do a science fiction story" and the community saying "I didn't like your story, therefore you should change it for me."

Considering we didn't get ME3 for free...

LOL@Thinking that buying someone's game/book/painting means you own their company.

And you wonder why I called you a flamer?

There are numerous interviews that directly state certain things about the ending that are directly the opposite of what we got. As customers, we have certain rights regarding truth in advertising.

That being said, a comment by a BW employee earlier in this thread, refering to us as customers and not simply fans, is very nice to hear Leaves me with a good amount of hope.

[jeweledleah]

zegota wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

zegota wrote...

wook77 wrote...
Or classical. Maybe Leonardo da Vinci isn't an artist because he changed his art based on the whims of his patron(s). Or Michaelangelo, either.

Dude, working under the guidance of a patron and rearranging a story based on majority rule is so fundamentally different I don't even know where to start. There's difference between Bioware's owners saying "You should do a science fiction story" and the community saying "I didn't like your story, therefore you should change it for me."

Considering we didn't get ME3 for free...

LOL@Thinking that buying someone's game/book/painting means you own their company.

"we co-created ME3 with the fans"  Casey Hudson
"your choices shape your story.  the endings will be very different depending on the choices you made in all 3 games"
oops, sorry, our bad, your choices don't matter after all - just pick blue, red or green.  can't see green?  just play a round of multiplayer and yep - there it is.  didn't do any n7 missions?  no worries.  lost the entirety of your ME2 squade?  pfft, makes no difference.  everyone gets the same choices, the same auto dialogue, the same cutscen with very minor difference - explosion color mostly.

we were promised a certain type of experience.  we payed money for it.  we didn't get what we payed for.  its very simple.

[BlackDrg9]

Overall the game was an incredible achievement.  Every scene had meaning and most, if not all, of our previous choices in Mass Effect 1 and 2 were revisted in some way.  I must say that Mass Effect 3 has lived up to many expectations that at least I myself had.

That being said, however...the choice of endings are a bit of a let down.  The little explaination given to us as to what was actually going on was a little vague.  There are still many mysteries left unsolved and being the final installment of the series I was hoping for more.  By all means a sad ending is not really a bad ending but if the choices, while each one different on the surface, all end with the same result it would have been fitting that there would be more of a difference between the three.

I am trying not to get into too much detail out of respect for readers who are still playing the game...even though they've probably been mentioned already...I would have liked to have seen more of what happened to everyone else involved in the war.  Some insight on to how they continued thier lives in the aftermath of the invasion is what I feel is really missing.  A final voice over narration that settled our hearts would have also been comforting.

If changes are to be made then by all means do so but as Chris Priestly stated "Show appreciation for Commander Shepard."

Modifié par BlackDrg9, 16 mars 2012 - 07:16 .

[quantum_realist]

I'll just put my two cents in. Firstly, we don't hate you Bioware. Mass Effect 3 is an impeccably designed experience, one that I think nears perfection. It is the best game I've ever played and will probably ever play until the next one. The decision you made with the ending just goes against what you guys are so good at; telling an amazing story. Other than this odd decision on your part, we still have an incredible experience, albeit one that falls flat. Not really what you want out of the ending of a trilogy. I really appreciate you having same sex options for male Shepard. Trust me, I've been waiting for two games to get Kaidan in bed with Shep

Just...please. Please, please, please, please, please, don't leave us hanging. I don't necessarily want a 'happy' ending, just one that makes sense and has some resolution. I want to see Turian and Krogan battalions working side by side to kick reaper ass. I want to see Quarians and Geth working together to strategize an attack. I want to see the whole crew assembled at Shepards military funeral, Kaidan holding his N7 dog tags. Just give us SOMETHING. Thank you. I love you.

[Walzon]

favorite moment was when i got to see all the forces I gathered fight in an epic battle with the reapers, did that happen though? (i really thought it would've, they all reported in, but should've been like the ship upgrades from mass effect 2, but its understandable you cant have people die with only like a 6 character roster). Other than that, defiantly Mordin's segment, and your first few steps on Earth. when i got out of the shuttle, i was going to kill EVERYTHING that was moving....

seriously, this was a good move, should've done this before, now i know bioware actually is listening... but honestly a game as epic as this should be done correctly the first time for maximum epic experience

[wook77]

zegota wrote...

wook77 wrote...
Or classical. Maybe Leonardo da Vinci isn't an artist because he changed his art based on the whims of his patron(s). Or Michaelangelo, either.

Dude, working under the guidance of a patron and rearranging a story based on majority rule is so fundamentally different I don't even know where to start. There's difference between Bioware's owners saying "You should do a science fiction story" and the community saying "I didn't like your story, therefore you should change it for me."

Really? So the patrons of the Sistine Chapel, who went to the Pope and asked for the artwork to be expanded on didn't exist? They rearranged what can be considered art based on the community consensus. The patrons, in this case the various members of the Catholic Church, asked for more artwork to be included so that the dogma of the Church would be expanded upon. In other words, the original ending of the artwork was not enough for the patrons. They requested changes and they got said changes to what is now and will always be considered art.

in the case of BioWare and the game, to desperately attempt to bring this back on topic, the consumers are the patrons. Without the consumers, BioWare would not be able to create their art. Without the consumers, EA would drop them like a hot potato because they were no longer financially viable enough for the shareholders. In this case, there is not one overarching patron, there are multiple patrons asking for additions to the artwork (and approving said artwork to please the requestors), not changing the entire structure of the original artwork, but to provide more of it, to shape it to the conclusion that should've been there - to complete the story and add to the dogma of the community the artwork was intended for. That is what those of us that are asking for additional content are asking for. We're asking for more artwork, for that Botticelli on the Sistine Chapel example that you ignored.

[Omnike]

quantum_realist wrote...

I'll just put my two cents in. Firstly,****** we don't hate you Bioware. Mass Effect 3 is an impeccably designed experience, one that I think nears perfection.******* It is the best game I've ever played and will probably ever play until the next one. The decision you made with the ending just goes against what you guys are so good at; telling an amazing story. Other than this odd decision on your part, we still have an incredible experience, albeit one that falls flat. Not really what you want out of the ending of a trilogy. I really appreciate you having same sex options for male Shepard. Trust me, I've been waiting for two games to get Kaidan in bed with Shep

Just...please. Please, please, please, please, please, don't leave us hanging. I don't necessarily want a 'happy' ending, just one that makes sense and has some resolution. I want to see Turian and Krogan battalions working side by side to kick reaper ass. I want to see Quarians and Geth working together to strategize an attack. I want to see the whole crew assembled at Shepards military funeral, Kaidan holding his N7 dog tags. Just give us SOMETHING. Thank you. I love you.

This is what most of the people upset with the ending feel. I was completely satisfied with every ounce of the game except the ending, and it was all added up to nothing. 

[Terror_K]

Here's my basic take on things:-

Changing the endings won't save ME3 from the other factors that let it down (autodialogue, lack of choices, near complete linearity, lack of consequences, etc.) but the endings as we have them are a travesty and do need to be changed to even make ME3 half-decent at all.

Here is my issues in a nutshell: the endings are bad for not just one reason, but several. Beyond being nonsensical on a number of levels, they're all basically the same, they're all completely isolated and independent from pretty much every decision you made prior to them, and they all end up with you screwing over the universe in some manner (i.e. either you end up destroying almost everybody except maybe the magic, unexplained Normandy crew because the relays explode and we've seen what happens when that happens in Arrival, or you end up stranding everybody in Sol, meaning all your work with the krogan, quarians, etc. is for naught). On top of it all, there's absolutely nothing that reflects your decisions and outlines what happened to those you got to know over the trilogy, making the whole thing seem hollow and like we've wasted years of playthroughs even more-so. All these tags being set over three games, and you can't even give us a decent epilogue along the lines of something like DAO that tells us what became of Liara, Garrus, Tali, etc. let alone Conrad, the Zhu's Hope colonists, Miranda and Oriana, Jack and her students, Kal'Reegar, etc.

[shadowxwolf13]

Honestly, this game was and still is amazing. There are countless "moments" where I just sat back on my chair and watched with pure pleasure and others where I gripped my mouse in apprehension. The game bar the ending is more or less flawless and I was looking forward to replaying all the games over my Spring Break for that start to finish feel.

Unfortunately with the ending the way it is I can't motivate myself to play any Mass Effect game anymore knowing that in the end it's all for naught on top of being simply confusing.

[durasteel]

zegota wrote...

Hmm, I thought I had, actually. Anyway, when it comes down to it, there's no problem with people hating the ending. It's actually a good thing. I think people have a fundamental right to complain -- I mean, it would be pretty boring if we all liked the same things. And I've gotten a little angry talking about the actual ending because of my anger at the petition topic, so I apologize -- it's separate. I like the ending, but if it didn't work for you, that's cool.

What really, really bothers me is the petitioning to get Bioware to change it. Because that essentially means you think everything should be majority rule, that, essentially, nothing that <50% of people enjoy should ever be created. And, with all the power Bioware has in the industry, that scares me. A whole lot.

It seems that you lack a historical perspective.

Artists have been adjusting their art to satisfy their customers for... well, for ever, really. Michelangelo appeased the Church, Mozart catered to his patrons, and almost every working artist has done work on commission. Films are screened for test audiences, and adjustments are made based on their reactions. None of this detracts from the status of a work as "art."

Ultimately, it is the decision of the artist to indulge or ignore feedback from patrons. In this case, the decision rests entirely with EA and BioWare as to how to respond to this outcry, and I think everyone knows and acknowledges that. If they choose to release an alternative ending, that is an artistic choice, even if it is made in response to customer demand. The petitions and charitable contributions are not an effort to force EA or BioWare into action, because that cannot be done. These are simply efforts to demonstrate the depth and sincerity of people's feelings on this issue.

Sometimes, the "majority rule" at which you sneer leads to a better work of art. You don't have to look very far before you find examples of artists whose quality decreased as their autonomy increased - Lucas and Rowling come immediately to mind. Focus groups are used for a reason, and while they may be overused and abused, they can also be invaluable. Go read what Drew Karpyshyn has said about the importance of a good editor, who is separated from the creative process and able to provide objectivity.

It is the nature of art that to some extent it exists in the perceptions of its audience. That's why art is subjective. Sometimes an artist can only fully understand their own work when they see it through some else's eyes. I think you should give BioWare a chance to make that decision. Perhaps Casey Hudson and his team will consider how the ending plays for us, and change his mind about how it should unfold, or perhaps they will simply lament that we seem not to understand it in the way it was intended.

This is a work of art that was always intended to be modified and augmented by DLC, so I would argue that until the last DLC is finished it remains a work in progress.

Modifié par durasteel, 16 mars 2012 - 07:25 .

[BismarkYamato]

Being frank, I loved the game, except for that one thing everyone is talking about *ahem*. I'm probably in the minority for saying this next part, I would've like to at least have the choice of a happy ending, and my reasoning for this is, what's the point of having Shepard pursue a romantic interest if he/she doesn't get to really enjoy it? Also, doesn't having the mass relays be destroyed negate the whole purpose of uniting the galaxy?

[hljhodr_sunda]

I just want to say, "Bravo, Bioware and EA", for finding a way to stick it to used game merchants. I am one who strongly believes in buying the things you enjoy from the creators of said item. I am going to go out on a pretty sturdy branch here and say there is more to our story than we can currently achieve. You may already have a clue that I'm speaking in reference to online pass or alliance network. It is my firm belief that IF you release an expansion or dlc, what some may refer to as "the truth", that you would not charge for this content by those who have an online pass. Further, I believe you would be able to provide a hard copy of said hypothetical expansion/dlc for those who can furbish a proof of purchase for ME3, without an internet connection...

And as for my favorite part of the game? The end. I did what was your intent for your gamers to do. I came up with my own thesis for what happened in the end. It's actually very similar to a quite popular indoctrination "theory".

other times include but are definitely not limited to;
-Tuchanka climax
-having my name written in the stars
-a blue chick saying she loves me
-"that was for Thane"
-Anderson's family (or lack there of)
-Legion's my friend
-and this one is ongoing... Bioware trolling the ME3 twitter fans.

Thank you so much for all the years of enjoyment you have given me, and for all the years to come.

----- your loyal fan,
TcB Sunda

[Omnike]

BismarkYamato wrote...

Being frank, I loved the game, except for that one thing everyone is talking about *ahem*. I'm probably in the minority for saying this next part, I would've like to at least have the choice of a happy ending, and my reasoning for this is, what's the point of having Shepard pursue a romantic interest if he/she doesn't get to really enjoy it? Also, doesn't having the mass relays be destroyed negate the whole purpose of uniting the galaxy?

You're not alone. I would love a happy ending. That's actually what I tried to work for in all three games with my character.And yes, the Mass Relay destruction is a huge frustration, because no matter what you've done they get destroyed.

[shadowxwolf13]

To add to my previous post. I would've loved a normal generic ending, I would've been fine with a poor ending, but what I got was something completely out of the blue. I don't mind not knowing what happens to everyone and I don't mind if some people die. Endings can be open ended leaving me with only a message and my own thoughts, but this time I didn't get a theme I didn't get a semblance of closure or hope all I got was.... WTF I don't know... what... what!?

The current ending isn't open ended, it's bizarre and random. Not in the philosophical way just plain random.

Modifié par shadowxwolf13, 16 mars 2012 - 07:29 .