23455 réponses à ce sujet

[animallover11]

Honestly, I LOVE the entire series. I don't even have a favorite moment becuase there are simply too many to choose from. But while I did not really hate the ending, it did leave me feeling unfulfilled. What happened to my squad and the Normandy? The aliens fighting on Earth? The people in the Citadel? I just would have liked to have a little more...closure, I guess. Also I'd like to say that while I'm not actively supporting a new ending by donating money, but I would go spend it if something like that were released.
Thanks for an awesome series Bioware. I for one won't let it be ruined by the last five minutes.
<3

[mothbanquet]

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

This deserves a bump.

[Calbeb]

Thanks for the post. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the ending from Bioware in the future.

There are so many great moments in ME3, but to me the peak was Mordin's self sacrifice to cure the Genophage. I had spent three games developing my feelings about it, and finally commiting to help the Krogan people just felt so right. It helped that Mordin was sacrificing himself almost gladly to save them.

Honestly, most of the game has some really powerful writing. Probably the best you all have done, except for the obvious.

[booboo645]

As much as I get that people have their own viewpoints, for the people who just accepted the ending as is.. I want some things explaining. Like why you don't see the biggest plotholes in the history of any game I've ever played?
It seems that everyone ok with it hasn't actually played the other games..?
We don't have a problem with Shepard dying even, it's wholly based on the fact that the ideals behind Shepard, your crew.. even what the child says.. EDI gets out of the ship if she's on your crew for the end mission.. even if you pick destroy synthetics. That purely makes no sense. It's not because we know somethings are actually hard. We lost Mordin, Thane.. we are happy to lose ourselves..

Just make it make sense.
As a random note.. Still requiring more Harbinger.

[TheDoctorXVI]

Everything up until the final 10 minutes of ME3 was fantastic. My faveroute ME1 moment is finding the Prothean VI on Ilos, ME2 is between meeting Archangel and fighting through Purgatory. ME3 has quite a few good moments, either landing on Palavens moon, the entire Quarian and Geth event between first exiting the relay and then establishing peace, or when you come out at the Sol Relay with every fleet you could gather.

[Dlaskin9218]

I don't get why some people think we're upset about a "happy ever after" ending. It's not what we're upset about. We're upset about dedicating the past 5 years, and countless hours spent making choices, and in the end, there was nothing. I don't care that the starchild gave us three choices on stopping the reapers. I care about the fact that no matter which you choose, they are all basically the same. It would have been nice to at least SEE a ShepForce taking control of the reapers, and it would have been nice to SEE synthetics and organics merging together as one. One of the earlier posts made an analogy about going to an amusement park, on a beautiful sunny day, getting to the front of every line, and then spilling coffee on your lap at the end of the day, and asked if it would ruin the beginning of the day. My answer is no. But again, I didn't go to the amusement park specifically for the coffee. You see, I bought Mass Effect 3 to conclude an epic story I was brought into. So, in the amusement park, the coffee was irrelevant, whereas the ending to ME3 was relevant. A better analogy would be going to the amusement park, getting on line for an epic rollercoaster, and when you get on, it's like the Jungle Cruise at Disney World.

Oh, and my favorite parts were:

1.) Aafter losing Thessia, when Shepard comes out to everyone and literally asks if anyone knows where Cerberus HQ is. I thought it was funny.

2.) Attempting to activate the hammers on Tuchanka, while 4 brutes are attacking you, and a giant Reaper is trying to step on you.

3.) "Does this unit have a soul?"

4.) James' conversation with Javik (or is it Javok?), and Garrus' conversation with Legion.

Modifié par Dlaskin9218, 16 mars 2012 - 03:42 .

[Crimzoneyed]

For me it's just that it felt weird since there was so much "information hole's"
What happend to the crew? The Galaxy? All races that helped fighting to take earth back, how are they going to come home? Why the heck did citadel explode so that everyone on it dies?
Quarians just got their planet back, for what? getting stuck in the Sol system XD
Why even bother romance someone? (in my case Tali) Since when she find's out I'm dead she probably commit suicide... Than it would be better to not romance anyone to not make them sad/suffer.

When shepard destroyed the Bahak mass relay the whole system "died".
But when they self destruct they don't?

It's so many un-answered questions and plot hole's :/

[Hellosanta]

booboo645 wrote...

As much as I get that people have their own viewpoints, for the people who just accepted the ending as is.. I want some things explaining. Like why you don't see the biggest plotholes in the history of any game I've ever played?
It seems that everyone ok with it hasn't actually played the other games..?
We don't have a problem with Shepard dying even, it's wholly based on the fact that the ideals behind Shepard, your crew.. even what the child says.. EDI gets out of the ship if she's on your crew for the end mission.. even if you pick destroy synthetics. That purely makes no sense. It's not because we know somethings are actually hard. We lost Mordin, Thane.. we are happy to lose ourselves..

Just make it make sense.
As a random note.. Still requiring more Harbinger.

In my playthrough, Edi died in both 'control' and 'destroy' endings. She survives only in 'synthesis' ending, I re-call. 

[Morrigan5182]

wryterra wrote...

It's in their hands. They just need to give a date. That'll calm a lot of people right down. 

All we have at the moment is 'we're listening'. Listening is fundamentally a passive activity. It means they're not *doing* anything. 

Absolutly my opinion. Or something else like: We are working on it, discuss it or anything else.

But on the other hand: They should not rush with the release. This also could be more people get disappointed.

[fhalliday03]

wryterra wrote...

fhalliday03 wrote...

@masseffect so why the deppresive ending? can u comment on that?

@dior4m Well, we will be making more comments about it soon: http://ow.ly/9HqA4

It's cooooomiiiiiing...! I just wish people had been a wee bit more patient and less shouty.

It's in their hands. They just need to give a date. That'll calm a lot of people right down. 

All we have at the moment is 'we're listening'. Listening is fundamentally a passive activity. It means they're not *doing* anything. 

I remember someone from Bioware saying something like this somewhere before - but there it is again! Perfectly reasonable I suppose to give everyone the same level before any new releases.
It's all nice and cryptic. I'd rather this whole situation than a big leak to ruin some excellent story of some kind (touch wood!) I've got plenty other things to entertain me while the saga goes on!

@masseffect when could i/we expect a response? (today/this week/ next month)

@dior4m They want other players (for example, other countries that had the game launched later) to have some more time to complete it.

Modifié par fhalliday03, 16 mars 2012 - 03:39 .

[chvew]

my favorite moment when shepard leaving the earth,finally reapers come.

[Eurycea]

Archonsg- I really liked your 1.01b ending (especially the part where the relays did not get destroyed). I'll mentally use that one next time, once the face importer is working. I'd like to see the paragon-Shepard lives and renegade versions too.

[Mcfly616]

@MDT1

I don't need a happy ending either I'm just saying that there should be varying endings...all based on your decisions. Like ME2 but on a grander scale....the ending possibilities should be: Shepard living, Shepard dying, Reapers win, Reapers lose, they should show what squadmates survived, what Homeworlds were saved and which ones fell, which species will live on, and which species will die out.
there should be so many different variables into each ending. After ME2 I didn't expect anything less. I also expected the "end all, be all" final confrontation with Harbinger....
The little blue baby thing is just wishful thinking and I'd accept it not being in there....tho I'm sure fans would greatly appreciate it...might even be a lot of peoples favorite scene in the series if they were to do that.

[garf]

MysticFred wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

 (Version 1.01b Paragon Shepard Dies)
Been thinking about the ending a bit more and about that first one I came up with. And thought it was pretty weak. So here’s another attempt, though this time Shepard dies. 


*note : Most people Should get this ending. I do have a “Paragon Shepard Lives” ending scenario floating up in my noggin but that will be done another day, maybe.


Also my version of events scraps everything right after the combined Galactic fleet enters Earth space, assumes the player has completed all side quests and has at least 3300 EMS. Why only 3300. I feel that “forcing” players to play Multi-player just to get the “best” possible ending is rubbish. 

Higher EMS just skews a slightly different cut scene of your ground troops.
Higher EMS = more varied troops based on which races you have recruited to the cause.  
The trigger on what causes Shepard to  live or die however I’ll post later.

This ending also assumes you have saved every companion in ME2 (just mentally edit them out if you got yours killed) and Assumes that certain paths are followed in ME3. Again you can mentally edit those characters out of the cut scenes if yours are absent or dead. Liara assumed to be LI and Shepard to be male. (just switch him for her if your Shepard is female) Also this is an entire “re-write” of events in London. So no, I don’t follow the Shepard was indoctrinated” school of thought. Sorry shep-zombie fans. And no Star Child crap either. Sorry Bioware. 

Scenario: 
Cut Scene

Combined Galactic ground forces consisting of all the forces and assets Shepard has gathered. Krogan on Keiosaur mounts charging, Geth and Quarian engineers setting up hack proof auto turrets, mercs fighting dirty in hand to hand, pistol shot to the face combat, Turian and Human infantry and armor supported by Asari commandoes and Grissom Academy (Jack!) Biotics form a linked shield system and together they all carve a path and finally take down the Guardian at the Conduit.

Shepard and team go in, and it’s a race find the master control and open the Citadel Arms so that that Crucible can dock. 

Shepard and team fights way to Citadel central command room which EDI helps to pin point. Within the Citadel itself Shepard faces a combined force of indoctrinated Cerberus forces and reaper forces. 

Midpoint : Cut Scene. 
Harbinger’s holo appears and in the course of talking to it. Player learns that the Citadel is not only a huge mass relay, it is also the Reaper’s command and control centre from which the reapers direct their systematic “cycles” and that means it’s also one big galactic broadcasting device and that some ancient race finally figured this out and came up with the Crucible which is essentially one big “signal booster” . This old race figured out that you can send a kill switch from the Citadel but such a signal would only effects its local space for the kill switch to work, the signal needs to be sent simultaneously across the galaxy using the Mass Relays as piggy back signal towers. 

Shepard also learns that the Reapers were once AI meant to protect a race, created at a time when there was another war of organics and Synthetics. The AI’s primary directive was to Protect and dictate the race’s war efforts. In the course of time the AI decided that to win the war against Synthetics, organics had to become Synthetics themselves and thus the Reapers and Cycles came about.

Harbinger shows nothing but disdain for Shepard, for all organics. It demands that Shepard submit as it is the only way to salvation that it is the only logical outcome. 

Shepard tells it to go to hell. 

Harbinger then tells Shepard that Organic life in this Cycle had become too much of a problem, that order was disrupted when Sovereign was destroyed and later the planned entry point in Batarian space blocked. That it has decided that the best solution for the current situation is for the galaxy to reboot itself and life and the Cycle can start anew. 

Shepard is confused by what it meant till Admiral Hackett communicates that reports are coming in that EVERY Mass Relay is powering up, gathering Charge at a rate that would make each relay go critical and cause Ultra Super Novas in every system that holds a Mass Relay.  Everyone is shocked and horrified by the implications. Harbinger gloats that order will be restored and the Cycle can start anew again. 

Shepard Speech.Chooses final Squad members and assigns the rest to rear guard to cover his back and come up behind when they can.

Player fights to last checkpoint. 
Meets Illusive man who holds the final key to unlocking the Citadel. Illusive man tries takes control of Shepard’s implants. Makes Shepard shoots both squad members and they are out of combat (not dead …yet)

If Love interest is in squad however, Shepard finds strength to resist after he shoots the first squad member and the illusive man tries to make Shepard shoot his LI. (Love has to count for something ya?) 

Boss Fight. One on One 
Shepard vs Illusive man or two vs one if Shepard is with LI

Shepard wins, Illusive Man slumps to the ground. Seemingly lifeless.

Cut Scene.
Harbinger arrives too late at the Conduit but starts blasting at ground troops. (poor EMS = more die, not just nameless troops but Jack, Grunt, Wrex and any other non-squad companions from previous games at the scene, we will however assume high EMS for this cutscene) More Reaper Destroyers land with Harbinger and starts blasting as well. 

Jack plays mother hen and orders Asari commandoes around to help bolster the linked shields so that ground forces can hold ground. She refuses to leave but realise her shields cannot withstand a direct hit from a Reaper canon. Reluctantly leaves when Miranda tells her, “Shepard will find a way, he always does.”

Meanwhile on the Citadel, Shepard with EDI’s help shuts down the Relay Nova sequence and finds the kill switch. Harbinger’s Avatar appears one last time, but this time it shows fear. It knows death is imminent and it doesn’t want to die. 

Harbinger admits that perhaps its assessment is wrong and gives Shepard a choice, instead of killing every reaper, Shackle them. Each Reaper would then be Humanity’s tool and weapon against anything or anyone, organic or synthetic. Through them, Humanity would achieve power unimaginable and through humanity’s control of the reapers, order be imposed on all organic life. (Renegade Choice of course)  

Shepard refuses. Takes the Paragon path and triggers the kill switch. 
THE CITADEL DOES NOT BLOW UP, BREAK APART OR GETS DESTROYED. 
The signal goes off and Every Reaper in Earth Space flatlines, including Harbinger.

Now that the Earth space is safe and cleared of Reapers, the Crucible goes through its docking sequence shedding its protective armor and docks.

(I ALWAYS hated that part in the original Ending. WHAT Military Genius decides to try and dock a “soft” target in the middle of a fire fight while your “air space” isn’t clear of bogies and hostiles? You still have REAPERS around the Citadel firing Reaper beams left and right and you want to advertise “hey guys  over here …SHOOT ME!!!”)

(Final moments)
Garrus : “So Shepard, do the honours?”

Shepard: “I thought you’d do it, I mean, isn’t that why you calibrate stuff so much?”

Garrus : “The guns. Are. On. The. Normandy Shepard.” ”But now that you mentioned it, why not? I could never resist pushing big red buttons. Uhhh There is a big red button right?” 

EDI. : “No Garrus. Just your standard VI overlay”  

Garrus : “Pity. Well Palaven isn’t free of Reapers yet while we stand here talking.” *reaches up and touches controls*

*Signal beam goes out to the Charon Relay, Relay pulses then shoots out beam to other Relays.”
RELAYS ARE NOT DESTROYED. 

Pretty colour signal rings Galactic map display depicting each relay receiving and sending the kill switch out.
Reapers across the Galaxy flatlines. Cheers from groundtroops in Palaven, Asari on Thessia, everywhere, troops emerge bloodied but not beaten. 

*Everyone in room cheers*
Ashley : “We did it! We finally did it! Its all because of you Shepard, I am sorry I ….”

*Rapid auto gun fire. Shepard’s Shields flare then in slow motion, HEAD SHOT*

Liara : “Goddess! Noooooooo…”

*everyone turns to see a shakily Illusive man standing with a modified machine pistol in hand .. Everyone unloads their weapons into Illusive man. All except Liara who is cradling Shepard and crying. 

*Fade to black.*
*scene opens 5 years later. We see a small Asari child playing in the grass on Thessia laughing and giggling with another Asari child. She turns when she hears someone approaches and it is Liara and Matriarch Aethyta. One of the girls run up to Liara.*

Child : “Mother, Aria here says that everyone is nice to me only because my father is famous. Why do you never talk of him?

Liara : “Oh Hannah, *breathes in deeply* your father was the most important man in the galaxy. He is why we still have Thessia, our home.”

Hannah : “Aria says he’s human. Aria’s mother says humans are at best centuary flings. I don’t understand….*looks up and sees Liara in tears* I am sorry mommy. I didn’t mean to make you cry. *stays silent for a few seconds* What was he like, my father?”

Liara : “He was …he was….*sobs*

Aethyta : “ He was  a man. Had a quad on him for sure but he had heart, he….."

*scene cuts to Garrus at SPECTRE Academy*

Garrus : “ … was not just a SPECTRE, he was THE SPECTRE. I was there when he took down Saren, when at the time we Turians still thought all humans were only good for was canon fodder."

Spectre trainee: “But sir, surely he was just a human.”

Garrus : "Son, on Rannoch he played Tag with a Reaper, on foot and won." *touches side of his face* You see this, got this from a Gunship’s rocket in Omega. Shepard took it down, with small arms and saved my life. No, I learned from the best and that was Shepard.  I learned that no matter how good you are, nothing is better than a true friend guarding your back and Shepard was …”

*scene cuts to Wrex and Grunt*
Wrex : “….an Honorary Krogan because I made him so! Arrhhahahh!”

Grunt : “Bah, I knew that before you. You were there, he fought beside me on my Rites of Passage and at the time he said he was “my krant” *does finger air quotes* …huh. When that Thresher Maw popped up and he didn’t flinch, just stared down that big ass rifle of his and shot, I knew then, that he’s no one’s Krant. That I was lucky to be in his.”

Krogan : “Clan Utnev says The Shepard is human and they spit on humans.”

Wrex and Grunt : “SHEPARD IS URDNOT! Shepard is why our women are whole again! We will stomp on Utnev bones and make them say SHEPARD IS …”

*scene cuts to Tali. ALL Qurians have their helmets off*

Tali : “ ….the most compassionate man I know.” 

Quarian girl : "What is it like travelling with the humans? With Shepard?

Tali: “Trying. Often you just want to shoot them. *she grins* sometimes I don’t get them but when I see Shepard I see the best humanity has to offer. Let me tell you of a story about a Quarian named Lia’Vael nar Ulnay a young quarian girl on her pilgrimage. She went to the citadel but before long, her money was stolen, she was beaten and people spat on her. All because she was Quarian. We met her while a Csec officer and a Volus had her held for questioning and NO ONE wanted to help. Shepard did. He cared. He didn’t see us as Quarians or aliens but as people. As someone of worth and Lia was someone worth helping. I asked him afterwards, why did he helped. He just said “Its what I do.”

Quarian girl : “Was he dreamy? *giggles*

Tali : “Uhhh what? …Shepard was …”

*scene cuts to Aethyta*

Aethyta : “…. Many things to many people. But most of all he was hope. He never stopped trying. They took away his ship, they took away his command they took everything that he was but they could not take away his spirit. Your mother loves him very much because of that spirit. Hell, if she had not  already claimed him, I would have been tempted to do so myself! Bet I can teach him a thing or two…” 

Liara : “Aethyta!”

*Hannah climbs into Liara’s lap*

Hannah : “He sounds wonderful. I wish he was here.”

Liara : *wraps arms around Hannah and hugs her tightly* “We all do, little dove, we all do.”

*FADE TO BLACK*

END CREDIT ROLL.

Good stuff, I shed a man tear.


Keep it up.

Call it trite and hollywood if you like but I loved that. I could have forgiven bioware if my paragon had got a distaffian version of that for HER ending.

[Captiosus77]

Here's what went through my head as I was deciding on which color to choose, and only reinforced as I watched each ending:

[Archonsg]

 Mass Effect has been the best game experience I have had for a long time. But if we are still doing analogies, this is what I thought of the whole series as it is.

(You will have Cake)

You are told that you'll have cake.
But first you'll have to bake it. What kind of cake depends on you. What icing, filling, how rich, soft, fruity or just choke full of chocolate or nuts really depends on what you want to put in. 

So you go about baking that cake.

You spent hours, getting everything just right and pop it into the oven.

You hear the timer go off and boy does it smell great!You open the oven but shock and horror; you only see threecrusty slices of bread. 

One spread with Strawberry Jam, one with a slice of cheese and one with a slice of ham.

"Where's my cake?!" You say, then notice a note beside the oven.

"We wanted to make sure you remember this event like no other. Doesn't matter if there's no cake; you had fun and anticipation making it." 

Surprise!

This is ME3 as it stands. 

[Srefanius]

mothbanquet wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

This deserves a bump.

read it the first time...

Bioware I know there are so many posts on these forums, you can't read all. Read this one. It says all things that matter to us according the ending.

[Mtcool]

 Mass Effect 3 could have had some of my favorite moments in gaming history. 

-Mordin sacrificing himself to end the genophage. 

-Ending the war between the Geth and the Quarians.

-Storming the Cerberus base and boss fight with Kai Leng.


However... To me this is all undone by the ending. It invalidates all the hard work done throughout the entire series it makes the end of an otherwise epic trilogy feel hollow. Not even mentioning plot holes you could fly the Normandy through and contradiction of previously established facts. Now, some people have said that it was the artistic message of the writers to make the case that our choices really don't matter and we can't escape the inevitable. This actually makes the end even worse for me. For a game that promoted that your choices matter, to completely be negated in the last few minutes for the sake of some post-modern determinist agenda was a poor decision in my eyes. And to all who have stated the "sunshine and rainbows" defense, there have been many games that had bittersweet endings that didn't feel so empty i.e. Red Dead Redemption, The Force Unleashed, Mafia, and LA Noire. 

Modifié par Mtcool, 16 mars 2012 - 03:46 .

[MDT1]

Mcfly616 wrote...

@MDT1

I don't need a happy ending either I'm just saying that there should be varying endings...all based on your decisions. Like ME2 but on a grander scale....the ending possibilities should be: Shepard living, Shepard dying, Reapers win, Reapers lose, they should show what squadmates survived, what Homeworlds were saved and which ones fell, which species will live on, and which species will die out.
there should be so many different variables into each ending. After ME2 I didn't expect anything less. I also expected the "end all, be all" final confrontation with Harbinger....
The little blue baby thing is just wishful thinking and I'd accept it not being in there....tho I'm sure fans would greatly appreciate it...might even be a lot of peoples favorite scene in the series if they were to do that.

I'm completly with you, my post was adressed to those who want to reduce our disappointment to "now your crying just because you didn't get the happy ending".

Modifié par MDT1, 16 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[Karait]

Opinion like mine has probably been voiced before, but if Indoctrination Theory or something like that is true and the real ending is coming in the future then I admit you will have a shot at saving the series, but you will lose a lot of credibility. I took a week off work to enjoy and relish the final installment to what is probably my all-time favourite series and by pulling off a stunt like this BioWare really lost a lot of my trust as an entertainment provider.

Modifié par Karait, 16 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[Lurchibald]

If it's true and the endings in ME3 are all we are getting then, the way it is.... I've lost trust in bioware, they started their downward spiral with the ending of DA2 (Nothing about the ending of DA2 made me even think about possibly getting DA3 whenever it gets made) 
ME3 was just the nail in the coffin for all bioware games for me, If I am to expect endings like what we got with DA2 and ME3 for all of their future games then I'm done.

Modifié par Lurchibald, 16 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[Gahec85]

At the end nothing of what you accomplished throughout the epic story matters. The ending is always the same.

[Arathon]

mothbanquet wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

This deserves a bump.

more then one. Its exactly what I feel but formulated in a
way that i could never done.

[Niko8778]

As someone who watched this series grow from the slightly clumsy but wonderfully told ME 1, blossom with ME 2 it was hard to play through ME 3. The game was wonderful, the story telling was fabulous...the tone was exactly in line with what everyone figured and thought it should be...until the end. A tonal shift, space magic, and plot details left out 'because we didn't need to know'. Where is the catharsis, where is the endings that actually reflect the choices we made throughout three games? Instead we were left with '16+1' endings that essentially boiled down to red, green, blue with marginally edited cutscenes. It's come out from the app that you did this to us on purpose, to be controversial and frankly it is just disgusting. You saw a community that loves you guys scramble to justify your actions with wild theories that we pieced together, all in an attempt to keep your dignity as master storytellers intact, the final hours app paints you guys as lazy, uncaring jerks who are content to make a half assed ending just to ****** off your fans...the people who make your jobs possible. Fixing the ending under the feedback of your fans can probably repair some of the damage you've done, but honestly Bioware, you've probably messed things up for at least a decade, if not permanently.

[Archonsg]

Eurycea wrote...

Archonsg- I really liked your 1.01b ending (especially the part where the relays did not get destroyed). I'll mentally use that one next time, once the face importer is working. I'd like to see the paragon-Shepard lives and renegade versions too.

Thank you. I'll work on that soon. Shift work and all that leaves little time to do stuff. Me3 right up to the ending was "I just need 3 hours of sleep.." then that ending. I had planned to replay all my different romance options, all my Renegade / Paragon / Renegon / Paragade saves but now, not even excited to even go through the 2nd play through.