23455 réponses à ce sujet

[TopcatPlayer]

OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!
I was skeptical about the Indoctrination theory until i saw this!


If so this fixes a lot, but does not mean alls forgiven becaus i payed $130 for the Collector's Edition and it didn't have a proper ending?!?! I preordered and now i have to wait like every1 to get the actual ending which i then have to pay MORE money for? We've been waiting years for this. If this ending is true though it's a stroke of genuis i just hope its true and that we get the ending DLC quickly but that it is written with the utmost of care like the rest of this great game was, and it should be free. I actualy expected that the 3 choices would just be in his head and lead to him waking up as if in another of his dreams. Will this mean a continuation only from the RED ending? It would be great if all 3 colours had some kind of outcome, BLUE being fully indoctrinated Shepard having to be gunned down by his friends, RED being... i dunno, he resisted the indoctrination and gets to kick some ass finishing the battle riding on the back of a Rachni, and GREEN..... hrmmmmm, see i dont even get the Synthesis choice, a mix of robotics and organics.... isn't that what the Reapers are? So isn't that the plan all along? But the Kid said ALL organics will merge with synthetics not just a few being turned into reapers and the others allowed to evolve like whats happened previously.

And this unfortunately doesn't explain the later stuff with Joker.... hrmmmm, how they gonna retcon/explain that?

[Dodgeman]

ending was alright, except for that shuttle scene. could have scrapped that one. my shepard survived lying in the rubble whilst joker crashed on a descolate planet with my girl. /cry

[compelx]

 Here you go:
imgur.com/iv94p

[Sengr]

We need answers on our question, not a new questions from you. Please, just make something great in the end, like all ME Universe.

[Morrigan5182]

@ Archonsg:

Loved your ending!! That is an ending no one could ever forget!!

[Esoretal]

Wall of text incoming, watch out.

From what I understand, regardless of whether or not this is where it really ends or whether or not we actually get “closure”, BioWare wants community input, a philosophical discussion on our choices. They want us to talk about why we made the final choice we did. And sure, I’m willing to talk about it. But I’d like to say that I am not satisfied with the choices we were given, and I wouldn’t have taken any of them if I wasn’t forced to. I had other ideas. There was an incredibly disheartening lack of dialogue that would have saved this whole thing.

Mass Effect is a story about survival. The entire time, we are fighting to figure out a way to survive against this major threat that is coming in to wipe out the most advanced races in the galaxy. Commander Shepard starts out alone, but she/he eventually figures out a way to unite just about every race in the entire galaxy against this threat, including both organic and synthetic lives. If you manage to unite the Geth and the Quarians, Tali says they’re now actually achieving a type of symbiosis in which each one is improving the lives of the other. Now, according to the “Catalyst,” the Reapers feared the total extinction of organics by synthetics—but if anything, the Reapers were actually helping in a backwards way to prevent the end they feared by forcing the galaxy to unite in order to survive.

This in itself should have been a reasoning point with the Catalyst. None of that “You have three choices, pick which part of your soul you want to sacrifice” stuff. None of Shepard’s resigning comment of “So the Illusive Man was right after all,” then end of discussion. If Shepard could have said something about the choices she/he made in their journey… for example, if she/he could have proven that their cycle was responsible enough to handle themselves without the custodianship of the Reapers, then there would not have been any reason for the Reapers to keep doing what they were doing. That’s what my Paragon Shepard would have said. And this is why she would have gone down in history as a Legend. Not because she attempted to control the fate of anyone through any of the three presented choices, but because she actually managed to broker the ultimate peace for everyone--after reconciling the krogans with the salarians and turians, after uniting the geth and the quarians , after getting the Council to accept humanity--by talking down the Reapers, or at least trying. AND, if the Reapers are being controlled by something even bigger, wouldn't it be worth it to have them on our side, or at least out of the way?

And it could have gone down differently for Renegades. Maybe Renegades or those somewhere in the middle would rather make a different choice, to synthesize, or control the Reapers, or blow up the Reapers, or destroy all synthetic life, or bring the whole galaxy to their doom. Maybe they could be indoctrinated and convinced to work with the Reapers. But the sheer illusion of choice we were given does not do justice to the possibilities available to us throughout the rest of the game’s storyline. There is no reason it all had to end virtually the same way for everyone. Shepard might possibly die in a lot of scenarios, but she/he did not have to die. I get the point that’s being made with the fatalism, but to not even give Shep a chance to argue is pretty messed up.

In terms of closure, I would understand the total blackout in story better if Shepard had actually died. I mean, once you’re dead, what does it matter what happens afterward? However, if my Shepard is still breathing after that nightmare, her story is not over, and an epilogue would be pretty great.

So there is my input into what would have made this scenario with the Starchild a lot better and less painful for ninety percent of the community. I’m also a supporter of the indoctrination theory, but right now I’m just using what we’ve already got to work with, because it’s less painful than trying to read between the lines. When I started playing ME I understood that BioWare had a great reputation for working with their fans, and that’s one of the reasons I enjoyed the first two games so much. I don’t know if this is still the case, or what’s really going on out there behind the scenes, but I’m glad that you’re at least listening. Thanks for taking the time to do so.

Modifié par Esoretal, 16 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[HonestJoe]

Archonsg wrote...

 Mass Effect has been the best game experience I have had for a long time. But if we are still doing analogies, this is what I thought of the whole series as it is.

(You will have Cake)

You are told that you'll have cake.
But first you'll have to bake it. What kind of cake depends on you. What icing, filling, how rich, soft, fruity or just choke full of chocolate or nuts really depends on what you want to put in. 

So you go about baking that cake.

You spent hours, getting everything just right and pop it into the oven.

You hear the timer go off and boy does it smell great!You open the oven but shock and horror; you only see threecrusty slices of bread. 

One spread with Strawberry Jam, one with a slice of cheese and one with a slice of ham.

"Where's my cake?!" You say, then notice a note beside the oven.

"We wanted to make sure you remember this event like no other. Doesn't matter if there's no cake; you had fun and anticipation making it." 

Surprise!

This is ME3 as it stands. 

So, basically this means that the cake is a lie.

Nice to know:P

[McAllyster]

Sengr wrote...

We need answers on our question, not a new questions from you. Please, just make something great in the end, like all ME Universe.

QFT

[Dlaskin9218]

Captiosus77 wrote...

Here's what went through my head as I was deciding on which color to choose, and only reinforced as I watched each ending:

If it's anyone that knows about games, it's WOPR. But anyway, although I'm just as upset as anyone out there, it IS still less than a week that the game came out. I agree that more people should have time to finish before Bioware does anything official.

[Morrigan5182]

Maybe there will be no answer.  Maybe we all will be kicked out of the forum for all our critics. 

[TheRealMithril]

For the love of everything sacred: could you p l e a s e stop posting the 'bwFex wrote...' wall. Nobody can read anything. We get it already.

[Raven Snow]

Archonsg wrote...

 Mass Effect has been the best game experience I have had for a long time. But if we are still doing analogies, this is what I thought of the whole series as it is.

(You will have Cake)

You are told that you'll have cake.
But first you'll have to bake it. What kind of cake depends on you. What icing, filling, how rich, soft, fruity or just choke full of chocolate or nuts really depends on what you want to put in. 

So you go about baking that cake.

You spent hours, getting everything just right and pop it into the oven.

You hear the timer go off and boy does it smell great!You open the oven but shock and horror; you only see threecrusty slices of bread. 

One spread with Strawberry Jam, one with a slice of cheese and one with a slice of ham.

"Where's my cake?!" You say, then notice a note beside the oven.

"We wanted to make sure you remember this event like no other. Doesn't matter if there's no cake; you had fun and anticipation making it." 

Surprise!

This is ME3 as it stands. 

This, it's so accurate!

[TopcatPlayer]

TopcatPlayer wrote...

OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!
I was skeptical about the Indoctrination theory until i saw this!


If so this fixes a lot, but does not mean alls forgiven becaus i payed $130 for the Collector's Edition and it didn't have a proper ending?!?! I preordered and now i have to wait like every1 to get the actual ending which i then have to pay MORE money for? We've been waiting years for this. If this ending is true though it's a stroke of genuis i just hope its true and that we get the ending DLC quickly but that it is written with the utmost of care like the rest of this great game was, and it should be free. I actualy expected that the 3 choices would just be in his head and lead to him waking up as if in another of his dreams. Will this mean a continuation only from the RED ending? It would be great if all 3 colours had some kind of outcome, BLUE being fully indoctrinated Shepard having to be gunned down by his friends, RED being... i dunno, he resisted the indoctrination and gets to kick some ass finishing the battle riding on the back of a Rachni, and GREEN..... hrmmmmm, see i dont even get the Synthesis choice, a mix of robotics and organics.... isn't that what the Reapers are? So isn't that the plan all along? But the Kid said ALL organics will merge with synthetics not just a few being turned into reapers and the others allowed to evolve like whats happened previously.

And this unfortunately doesn't explain the later stuff with Joker.... hrmmmm, how they gonna retcon/explain that?

and this one really illustrates the indoctrination theory

[Lunarmagus]

I have spent countless hours playing the first two games. LOVE THEM BOTH. I played the third one...

Favorite moments:
Mordin sacrificing himself. To say that I was disappointed and happy all at the same time is like trying to compare a hand grenade to a nuke. I shed tears.

Grunt coming out of the Rachni pit... I whooped for joy, gave a big ol' HOOWA! (did a jig too!)

Liara: Every scene with her (Love Interest).

Tali drunk.

[Archonsg]

HonestJoe wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

 Mass Effect has been the best game experience I have had for a long time. But if we are still doing analogies, this is what I thought of the whole series as it is.

(You will have Cake)

You are told that you'll have cake.
But first you'll have to bake it. What kind of cake depends on you. What icing, filling, how rich, soft, fruity or just choke full of chocolate or nuts really depends on what you want to put in. 

So you go about baking that cake.

You spent hours, getting everything just right and pop it into the oven.

You hear the timer go off and boy does it smell great!You open the oven but shock and horror; you only see threecrusty slices of bread. 

One spread with Strawberry Jam, one with a slice of cheese and one with a slice of ham.

"Where's my cake?!" You say, then notice a note beside the oven.

"We wanted to make sure you remember this event like no other. Doesn't matter if there's no cake; you had fun and anticipation making it." 

Surprise!

This is ME3 as it stands. 

So, basically this means that the cake is a lie.

Nice to know:P

*nods*
And who is GLaDOS this time?
Seriously.

Modifié par Archonsg, 16 mars 2012 - 03:56 .

[Esoretal]

Raven Snow wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

 Mass Effect has been the best game experience I have had for a long time. But if we are still doing analogies, this is what I thought of the whole series as it is.

(You will have Cake)

You are told that you'll have cake.
But first you'll have to bake it. What kind of cake depends on you. What icing, filling, how rich, soft, fruity or just choke full of chocolate or nuts really depends on what you want to put in. 

So you go about baking that cake.

You spent hours, getting everything just right and pop it into the oven.

You hear the timer go off and boy does it smell great!You open the oven but shock and horror; you only see threecrusty slices of bread. 

One spread with Strawberry Jam, one with a slice of cheese and one with a slice of ham.

"Where's my cake?!" You say, then notice a note beside the oven.

"We wanted to make sure you remember this event like no other. Doesn't matter if there's no cake; you had fun and anticipation making it." 

Surprise!

This is ME3 as it stands. 

This, it's so accurate!

The cake is a lie! Bahahaha

Modifié par Esoretal, 16 mars 2012 - 03:56 .

[ERWERman]

Damn, just make a slide show ending like Bethesda did in Fallout: New Vegas and give as a conclusion we deserve... Is it that hard? Creative liberties are one thing but seeding false info about the game during the marketing campaign is something totally wrong(legally, Bioware broke the law).
I liked the games and the ending would have been OK if this was not an open world trilogy. Besides, the ending was not original at all, this is like a Hyperion book + Evangelion anime hybrid ending...

[jeweledleah]

TopcatPlayer wrote...

And this unfortunately doesn't explain the later stuff with Joker.... hrmmmm, how they gonna retcon/explain that?

Shepard imagining that people, he/she cares most for, escaped and landed in paradise >_>

[KunamiMata]

I loved Thessia. Without getting into specifics (spoilers and all that), it gave a real change in tone to the game. For the first time, I felt pretty helpless. Prior to that, I felt like nothing could stop Commander Shepard on this crusade. Then, BAM! Thessia. I love it when a game makes me feel things. Happy, sad, angry, whatever else.

Having said that, I did not enjoy the ending. Any of them. I did not. I don't think it was handled well, unless there's just something you guys are keeping from us (DLC or otherwise). If that's the case, I think making us feel this desperate and upset might actually be a brilliant move before you unload the truth on us. It'd make us feel exactly how we should given the context of the story here. But since I don't know if that's going to happen or not, all I can say at current is that I don't find the ending brilliant at all. It felt rushed.

Past that, the other 97% of the game was absolutely fantastic. I loved it. But Thessia was definitely a high point for me. For, you know, being kind of a low point, mood-wise.

[Morrigan5182]

The only question now is: What else should we - all of us here - do now, to get some answers or results? Sorry... I'm a little bit frustrated at the moment.

[Vikali]

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

[betd2]

Archonsg wrote...

HonestJoe wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

 Mass Effect has been the best game experience I have had for a long time. But if we are still doing analogies, this is what I thought of the whole series as it is.

(You will have Cake)

You are told that you'll have cake.
But first you'll have to bake it. What kind of cake depends on you. What icing, filling, how rich, soft, fruity or just choke full of chocolate or nuts really depends on what you want to put in. 

So you go about baking that cake.

You spent hours, getting everything just right and pop it into the oven.

You hear the timer go off and boy does it smell great!You open the oven but shock and horror; you only see threecrusty slices of bread. 

One spread with Strawberry Jam, one with a slice of cheese and one with a slice of ham.

"Where's my cake?!" You say, then notice a note beside the oven.

"We wanted to make sure you remember this event like no other. Doesn't matter if there's no cake; you had fun and anticipation making it." 

Surprise!

This is ME3 as it stands. 

So, basically this means that the cake is a lie.

Nice to know:P

*nods*
And who is GLaDOS this time?
Seriously.

Bioware

[Zokopops]

Dear Bioware (You used to be my fav game dev)

How do you respond to people calling you liars? There is alot of proof that one of you said that the ending wouldnt be a choice between A, B and C. Yet there is.

Did you lie or not?

A simple question. Please respond.

Tnx in advance.

[Flatman87]

What irritated me was the entire game was full of awesome moments, great acting and writing.

Then for some reason we had Deus Ex's ending slapped on, right down to the colour coded choices of control/synthesis/destruction. The ending made sense for that game, but this was Mass Effect, I can't help but feel this is all just some big mix up and someone loaded the wrong files onto the end.

[Xyalon]

Not sure if anyone has said this yet, and cba to check.

What I like most about the ending of ME3 is how it has brought people together from all over the planet like the reaper threat did to the ME galaxy, and united us (mostly) against a common foe.

I just hope that BW isn't to us what the Starchild of the Universe is to Shep.


Moved by outraged fans' dismay,
BioWare had this to say
"You'll get one, you'll see
That's not RGB"
It'll probably be CYMK 


Don't worry, I have faith. I'm sure it's going to be a great game when it's finished, it's really promising so far.