23455 réponses à ce sujet

[AR1Ska]

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.
Bioware, dont listen stupid people

Modifié par AR1Ska, 16 mars 2012 - 05:35 .

[DESTRAUDO]

Wishful thinking which is unsupported by the events in the game. 

michal9o90 wrote...

You know guys what i think.

THIS WHOLE STORY AFTER THIS LASER ATACK FROM REAPERS IS JUST SHEPARD FIGHT IN HIS/HER MIND!

You know why, because in the best story when you take, rigth side, destroy reapers, "Shepard is weaking up on ground", and THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE, BECAUSE THE WHOLE CITADEL IS BLOW UP, and the CENTER OF EXPLOSION IS WHERE WAS SHEPARD!

SO the best logical solution is that: this is only figth with the indoctrination from reapers, and only if you choose destroying reapers, then the shepard is waking up and now will be true ending.

That is my opinion after ending of the game. And i think BW did it specially, and now they send out the real ending.

What did you guys think about it??

[TheRealMithril]

Guys, why don't you just link (<- like this) to the bwfex post instead.. This is highly annoying and it doesn't help the cause.

Modifié par TheRealMithril, 16 mars 2012 - 05:35 .

[Caz Neerg]

Archonsg wrote...

michal9o90 wrote...

You know guys what i think.

THIS WHOLE STORY AFTER THIS LASER ATACK FROM REAPERS IS JUST SHEPARD FIGHT IN HIS/HER MIND!

You know why, because in the best story when you take, rigth side, destroy reapers, "Shepard is weaking up on ground", and THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE, BECAUSE THE WHOLE CITADEL IS BLOW UP, and the CENTER OF EXPLOSION IS WHERE WAS SHEPARD!

SO the best logical solution is that this is only figth with the indoctrination from reapers, and only if you choose destroying reapers, then the shepard is waking up and now will be true ending.

That is my opinion after ending of the game. And i think BW did it specially, and now they send out the real ending.

Except that if you allow for the indocrination theory, that means the Crucible never fired, nothing after that beam was real. Every one who came to Earth Space, everything done there was done in hopes that Shepard finds something / does something to end the conflict. 

I am sorry, but the entire combined Galactic armada was there just to give Shepard time to open the Citadel's arms and use Crucible to do what it does. Since that never happened, it means that Alliance armada fought a *conventional* war with the reapers. 

Didn't they keep telling you that you can't win a conventional war and that trying to do so will just wipe all your forces out?

It just means things pick back up from where they "really" left off, the charge to the light beam.  This whole situation is like a magic show; you get an entertainer showing you something so inconsistent with reality as you know it, that despite the fact that you are seeing it, you still know it isn't really happening.  The ending as it stands is inconsistent with the reality of who Shepard is, and if taken at face value, it is inconsistent with the reality of how talented the Mass Effect team is.  It has to be indoctrination, because nothing else fits the facts.

[Spectre Impersonator]

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.

Are you implying that 90% of Mass Effect fans who hate the endings are wrong?

[DESTRAUDO]

Wow, i was beginning to think i was the only one happy with it. 

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.

[jeweledleah]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Caz Neerg wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...
Except the "Indoctrination Theory" fails just as hard as the real ending when you remember the Prothean VI can detect indoctrination, and it doesn't flag when it sees you.

Fundamentally flawed logic.  Not being indoctrinated for the entire game =/= not being indoctrinated by the end of the game.

Fast indoctrination produces a husk. Shepard is most definitely not a husk.

question.  would VI sence effects of indocrination in supre early stages where it didn't take effect yet?
another question - coudln't the earnest attempt at indocrination not start untill the very end of the game?  and nighmares are just shepard feeling the guilt (its not just kid that you hear in the dreams, its also all the people you have lost over the years, their voices, VS, Thane, Mordin Legion - the more you lose the more voices you hear).  so this attempt to influence Shepards feeds of his/her fears, guilt, hopes, something Harbinger may be pulling directly out of the subcontious.. which will also explain the form Catalyst takes.

in other words - nightmares?  guilt.  last sequence?  indocrination attempt .

[bwFex]

jmarkows wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

This... is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read.  +1 from me.

I will be quite frank here.  I will still be incredibly angry if there is DLC in the works to finish/clear up/rework the ending.  Why was it not included?  Same goes for the import bug (which affects me too BTW, how was this missed??).  I will still be mighty angry about these things.

But the difference is, I'll get over it if Bioware makes it right.  Hell, there was enough of an outcry to get Firefly it's own movie.  I hope the same happens here.

As he said, "Just make it right."

To answer your first question, the most likely reason is to thwart secondhand game retailers. I posted a description of that industry trend over on reddit:

http://www.reddit.co...l_chunk_of_the/

[SuperZombieChow]

Favorite moment? There were plenty of those. The game was expertly crafted, right up until that last controversial ending bit. I won't go over why the endings were bad, you've seen plenty of that thus far, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that indoctrination theory is correct and you're releasing the real final chapter after this massive troll.

Seriously, even if it wasn't intended we've given you an easy out to change this from a PR disaster to an epic turning point in gaming history. For the love of Shepard please take it.

[Genera1Nemesis]

JohnShepard12 wrote...

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.

Are you implying that 90% of Mass Effect fans who hate the endings are wrong?

Lol, if Catalyst is wrong, then so too can anyone else be? (Sarcastic)

[jeweledleah]

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.
Bioware, dont listen stupid people

or we actualy see the that emperor is naked

Modifié par jeweledleah, 16 mars 2012 - 05:37 .

[Stygian1]

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.
Bioware, dont listen stupid people

This is the kind of people who liked your ending BioWare. Enough Said. 




(Change it for the love of god)

[Neuthung]

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.
Bioware, dont listen stupid people

You, sir, don't seem to have read that actual reasons people are pissed off. Also, don't insult the intelligence of others when you aren't forming proper sentences and have to resort to calling people "stupid."

[AR1Ska]

JohnShepard12 wrote...

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.

Are you implying that 90% of Mass Effect fans who hate the endings are wrong?

You can not please everyone.
A majority of the players did not expect philosophy final. They were waiting for something stupid battle.

Sorry for my english.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Neuthung wrote...

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.
Bioware, dont listen stupid people

You, sir, don't seem to have read that actual reasons people are pissed off. Also, don't insult the intelligence of others when you aren't forming proper sentences and have to resort to calling people "stupid."

Exactly. Being insulting just set your opinion back about 1000 years...

[Esoretal]

Archonsg wrote...

michal9o90 wrote...

You know guys what i think.

THIS WHOLE STORY AFTER THIS LASER ATACK FROM REAPERS IS JUST SHEPARD FIGHT IN HIS/HER MIND!

You know why, because in the best story when you take, rigth side, destroy reapers, "Shepard is weaking up on ground", and THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE, BECAUSE THE WHOLE CITADEL IS BLOW UP, and the CENTER OF EXPLOSION IS WHERE WAS SHEPARD!

SO the best logical solution is that this is only figth with the indoctrination from reapers, and only if you choose destroying reapers, then the shepard is waking up and now will be true ending.

That is my opinion after ending of the game. And i think BW did it specially, and now they send out the real ending.

Except that if you allow for the indocrination theory, that means the Crucible never fired, nothing after that beam was real. Every one who came to Earth Space, everything done there was done in hopes that Shepard finds something / does something to end the conflict. 

I am sorry, but the entire combined Galactic armada was there just to give Shepard time to open the Citadel's arms and use Crucible to do what it does. Since that never happened, it means that Alliance armada fought a *conventional* war with the reapers. 

Didn't they keep telling you that you can't win a conventional war and that trying to do so will just wipe all your forces out?

That's the problem I ran into as well. That's why I want to find out what happens after Shep takes a breath. Overcoming impossible odds, right?

[Lendorien]

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

This beautifully written post pretty much says it all for me.

[Lietuvis]

If they don't want to lose most of their wants, and profit as well, they better fix the endings, i would stop buying their games and just download them instead if they left this ending as it is now. The game itself is simply amazing, they could have finnished it when anderson dies, it would be the best ending ever. But some god AI is just too stupid. Not mentioning normandy. my crew teleporting to the normandy instantly tho they were dead/ or really hurt by beam,. and my LI smiling on new planet without any tech and her lover being dead.

[AJanitor]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Wow, i was beginning to think i was the only one happy with it. 

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.

I'll disregard your ad hominem comment (come on people's opinions on this don't make them more or less intelligent).

The problem with the synthesis ending is it flies directly in the face of the plot o the game:



The Synthesis ending is exactly what Saren wanted and he was the bad guy. Watch this and then tell me Synthesis is a ending that's consistient with the first game dialogue.

Modifié par AJanitor, 16 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[CosmicD]

I'm gonna keep it short, cause you can analyze everything to death and I just want to write down an oppinion after just finishing the game.

I have a double feeling about it. On one side, the ending is somehow pointless because synthetics are blaming synthetics to destroy their creation and then they are proceeding by doing the same ? This seems a bit insignificant because "the cycle" which must end is also an artificially created idea that the reapers come up with just to keep "synthetics" from overpowering them eventually.. i guess.

So there is nothing universally mystic about it.

I'm glad it's not the american type ending where the hero is still alive and everything is cool. I like the fact that the destruction of the reapers brings the universe in a new age, and you have a choise to begin that new age with no synthetics, or everything but the mass relays intact.

For all you know, Sheperd controls the reapers and send them back into the dark space and intructs them to watch youtube movies for all eternity, while I don't see a problem for the future and why it should technically "reset" every life in the galaxy.

The ending appears to suggest that he reapers are somehow superior, that they are the guardian of the galaxy or something like that, so the impact of the "end of the cycle" is to me, only so vast because they have such a big grip on the galaxy with their mass relays, we don't really lose that much, we can just start anew locally with the technology which is still preseved.

If you know that organics using robots and "synthetic" intelligence to aid them is a thing of the present real life and there's not something inherently evil from that (asides from some robophobic people that thinks robots are something to be scared off) Then you could speculate that the ending only throws us back a few steps but not all the way.

I feel that there's only going to be a problem when people like the illusive man is going to become powerhungry and abuse this relationship. So I chose to control the reapers, cause if you destroy them, earth gets destroyed as well, which is a much more impact than being cut off from the galaxy for a few years or centuries. FLT is something the reapers can't take from us so to destroy the reapers isn't a good action and synthesis would just destroy organic life as it was, which is still more significant than the "take control" part.

[Archonsg]

Caz Neerg wrote...

It just means things pick back up from where they "really" left off, the charge to the light beam.  This whole situation is like a magic show; you get an entertainer showing you something so inconsistent with reality as you know it, that despite the fact that you are seeing it, you still know it isn't really happening.  The ending as it stands is inconsistent with the reality of who Shepard is, and if taken at face value, it is inconsistent with the reality of how talented the Mass Effect team is.  It has to be indoctrination, because nothing else fits the facts.

And you guys are fine with Bioware / EA doing this? They might "pick up" on  it since it does sort of give them a "way" out but honestly, I see more problems with the Indoctrination theory that logically would mean Shepard is compromised and whatever you do is "wrong."

Better for them just to admit their mistake, based on released material, they had intended this ending to be the "real" one. They just didn't think it through and dipped thier writer's pens too deep into "space fantasy". 

The real solution. Rewrite London to reflect player choices. Re-evaluate just what EMS does and make it count. MAKE the player's choices count.

[Asclepus]

JohnShepard12 wrote...

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.

Are you implying that 90% of Mass Effect fans who hate the endings are wrong?

I believe he is actually implying - if not outright stating - that they are stupid.

[Esoretal]

AR1Ska wrote...

JohnShepard12 wrote...

AR1Ska wrote...

I was expecting a dull ending like a fight with a super boss. But the ending of the game is amazing (the creation of a new form of life) !
People are not burdened with brain activity can not understand it.

Are you implying that 90% of Mass Effect fans who hate the endings are wrong?

You can not please everyone.
A majority of the players did not expect philosophy final. They were waiting for something stupid battle.

Sorry for my english.

The philosophy is not the problem. The lack of choice and plotholes the size of the grand canyon are the problems.

[TheRealMithril]

another one who is against the cause i see (bwfex posters)