23455 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealMithril]

As for the Indoctrination theory:

(I know some people don't agree on these, but I stick to my guns on them)

Shepard is the only one in the game who sees the kid. Simply because he doesn't exist. Watching him die in the beginning is just the reapers way of making an emotional bond with him. This is how brainwashing works in reality as well. They are not easily dismissed and marks the ongoing decline of Shepard.

In the virtual world you can hear how the reapers are attempting to break through to Shepard (through the static noise) Again, suggests that they are trying to reach him but seem to have lost contact. This part actually provides viable means of combating the reapers as it suggests that they are vulnerable in the virtual world.

This is the most controversial part as many don't agree, but I firmly think I am correct here:

The prothean VI while talking with Shepard eventually recognizes Shepard as being indoctrinated and shuts down. At the same time as Leng appears, but his appearance his to hide (divert) that the VI actually referred to Shepard.

Later in the TIM HQ, the VI turns slightly right (actually facing your companion) while asking if he is there to rescue the VI from indoctrinated forces. Shepard believes the question is directed to him, and after a theatrical pause steps in front of your companion and answers 'yes'. To which the VI informs Shepard that his defenses are now shut down and it 'will comply' with Shepard. There is no reason to even make that kind of remark unless Shepard is in fact indoctrinated. Again, the slight angle is there to throw off the player on the matter that the VI sees Shepard as being indoctrinated.

If you have the Prothean companion, he will at one point touch you and make a remark that you have a 'liar' marker in you. But he himself doesn't realize that you are on the way to be indoctrinated.

Keep in mind that the protheans base their tech on touch, it is their native tongue (sort of) but even they had trouble with indoctrination, as Javik informs you that they we're betrayed by indoctrinated forces. This tells you that despite all their tech, it is really hard to detect someone who is indoctrinated.

The ending doesn't happen, it is played out on the ground, right after the blast. Shepard never enters the beam. This is what I am angry about. This is a kind of ending found in books, and BioWare in a weak moment of artistry forgot that players want to be entertained.

[Villiamus]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

All right my problem with the ending is that I didn't get to know what
happened in the galaxy afterwards. Did the Krogan finally chill out or
did they start another war? how did the Quarians get along with the geth? does humanity and the rest of the galaxy recover? how does the destruction of the mass relays affect the galaxy? are the alien soldiers on earth stuck there now?  that being said the game up to the ending was solid I had to console myself when thane died. Miranda crying when I broke up with her actually made me feel guilty. by the end of the quarian conflict I was as pissed off with both of them as Shepard was, the game was awesome but the ending left me with lots of loose ends that I'd like to be tied up.

[TehShizno]

I was actually very disappointed to be honest. Consider this:
- Mass Effect is all about player choices that carry from game to game, but when it comes to the actual ending it does not matter what you did previously. Your choices have actually no impact what-so-ever on the actual ending of the game. You might as well make random choices during the series, because the outcome will be the same. Its like when you do your homework, but than realize that it did not matter, because the teacher does not check it.
-Most of the people (me including) were expecting to have sort of an epic ending with all races uniting in a giant battle with Harbinger being the final boss (somewhat like what happened in ME1 when fighting Soverign) and of course with an epic dialogue revealing the biggest mysteries of the series like: who are the keepers, where did reapers come from or how many cycles have there actually been. But instead we got a pretty unsatisfying conversation with "someone else" (dont want to spoil anything for others, but you know who).
-At the end you are presented with couple of options, but no matter what you choose the endings are 90% same and you dont know what actually happens after you get rid of the reapers. You basically get blue, red and green ending, that all look the same, but dont exactly show anything like what happened to the galactic civilizations or the exactly what happens to reapers if you choose the illusive mans solution (again, dont want to spoil anything).
-Another thing is that some of the things make no sense- for example: how did your ground crew get into Normady in matter of seconds, if you know that the small transportation shuttle has been destroyed while you were fighting on ground. And another thing is, that you see the mass relays actually explode, but at the end of the Arrival DLC for ME2 you learn that when a Mass Relay destroys it can actually destroy an entire system, so what is up with that?

[jules_vern18]

Caz Neerg wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...
Please stop spamming everybody with this.  It's great that you have build up a desperate conspiracy theory to grasp onto in lieu of accepting this horrible ending, but please stop trying to ram it down everybody's throats.  If we don't believe the indoctrination ending, it's because we believe that new developments (especially Final Hours app) negate it as a possibility - not because we haven't been exposed to it enough.  Goddess knows we have.

Again, please stop.  It's getting sad.  Focus instead on giving to Child's Play and staying vocal on Bioware's various outlets to push for a better ending.

Sometimes, conspiracy theories fit the facts better and are more logical than the message you get from taking things at face value.  This is one of those times.  Viewing what we have as the "real" ending simply isn't consistent with the quality of the rest of the game, or the talent we know the development team has.  It requires more suspension of disbelief to accept this as the ending than it does to reject it.

Again, you have a right to believe whatever you want to believe.  Here's my take:  we have now seen the lead writer's ending notes via the Final Hours app.  Those notes show exactly the three endings we got.  What they don't show is anything whatsoever about indoctrination.  You can still grasp onto it if you want; all I'm asking is that you please stop spamming the forums with it.  You have your threads and can make more, but stop trying to hijack others.  That is all.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

jeweledleah wrote...

you know. you can like or dislike the endings. you may think they make perfect sence, or no sense whatsoever. but regardless of how you feel about them, bellow is a simple irrefutable fact.

we were promised the endings that were different from each other, that reflected the choices we made across all 3 games and that would tie up all the lose ends. I'm not just pulling this out of my butt, there are multiple interviews that can back this up with quotes.
what we got are the a, b, or c choices that basically amount to the same thing with minor differences in cutscenes, mostly explosion color. not of our choices in all 3 games had any effect on the final solution. made peace between quarians and Geth? catalyst still tells you its impossible. sped through the game letting anything and everything die, but playing some multiplayer to get your readiness up? you get the same 3 choices and you see the same exact space/land battle, and then the same exact cutscene of explosion and crushing Normandy.  no epilogue on affects your choice had, no idea who lived and who died, how are they going to get back to their systems.  too many loose ends, not enough closure

we were promised a product that wasn't delivered.

Yes and that is why they are not getting more of my money and if they don't at least anounce by the end opf next month that they are working on DLC to fix it I will be filing a complaint with the FTC.  If they had told the truth i could of used the $80 for something else.

Hold the lin people.

[SecElit3]

Only time will tell if Bioware is listening or not... We will see...

[TurambarEA]

Liara's time-capsule scene, Liara's citadel conversation, Liara's final melding, Thane's final moments, Mordin's sacrifice, Tali/Legion/Rannoch.

Honestly, you guys made such an awesome game. I could easily forgive the journal and the bugs and all that other stuff if you hadn't butchered the ending ... horribly and messily butchered it.

Oh except Chobot's inclusion. I cannot forgive Chobot either. I was disgusted when it was announced but then she was worse than anything I had imagined up to that point. And you can't even kill her. Seriously? All this talk of 'throwing things out the airlock' and you can't throw her out the airlock at the Reapers?

Edit: I forgot Garrus' 'favourite spot on the Citadel' - that was pure awesome.

Modifié par TurambarEA, 16 mars 2012 - 06:11 .

[Teacher50]

HectorB wrote...

People need to stop with these crazy indoctrination theories. The ending is as it has been presented...was it presented poorly...maybe. As for myself I enjoyed how ME3 ended.

I suppose there are FPS people and RPG people... So, good for you. At least you feel good. I'm happy for you.

[bwFex]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

If you want to see nothing but the negative in the context of the ending, then that is what you will see.

What I saw was a galaxy freed from the Reapers and freed from their technology. If a few million people die as the galaxy transitions into a new era and perhaps they develop new technology that is even better than the relays (they now have to, but they never did before because it was soooo easy) then that is still better than the trillions that would have died if the Reapers continued.

The problem is that even though the ending could technically be viewed as a victory for future cycles, it isn't those future cycles we've come to know and love over the past five years.

From an objective moral standpoint, sacrificing our entire civilization to give future civilizations a future is a wonderful, beautiful thing. In fact, it's essentially what the Protheans did for us.

But it isn't those future civilizations we've come to know and love over the past five years. We're fighting for the galaxy we know and love. I know Bioware likes to put severe choices with dire consequences in our paths, but they need to remember they're also trying to give gamers a satisfying ending. Part of their job as game developers is to satisfy their customers, and that's exactly what they promised us before the game was released: a satisfying ending that answers all of our questions, wraps up all the loose ends, and varies significantly based on the decisions we've made over the course of the trilogy.

While sacrificing our entire civilization with our favorite flavor of explosion might be morally right, it is not the satisfying ending we were promised.

And even if this final sacrifice wasn't a big deal, there's still the issue of how utterly incoherent, disconnected, and contrived the entire star-child thing is. It honest to god feels like they just gave up and let an intern write that part. It doesn't fit anywhere else in the Mass Effect story.

The only way it makes sense is as an indoctrination attempt. That's a fine idea, but if the whole thing was a trial of faith/resolve, it means we're still passed out in London and the reapers are still here (although possibly weakened by our successful indoctrination resistance). We still need some sort of a real conclusion. We need to see all of those war assets we've gathered finish the fight.

We've been told for 3 games that the only way we'll beat the reapers is by working together. For Bioware to swoop in at the end and say "just kidding, we have a giant space bomb with rainbow-colored space magic that will really be the answer to the reaper problem" is classic bait-and-switch. It's the biggest  Chekhov's gun in gaming history. We had an entire armada hanging over the mantleplace, and it was never fired. It's insulting.

Modifié par bwFex, 16 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[DarkDoz]

I posted a bug issue on my 2nd run through ME3 CE. I imported ME3 and I have all the weapons.
During game play on mars when Ashley is slammed by the Spy. The next section I am to kill the spy

The Bug

1. Using the Scorpion 1 heavey Pistol firing 4 shots to the head. The Spy would get to me before the shots exploded
2. You have no other option, I tried all attacks with no help since that is blacked out.

The Fix
1. I had to delete the saved game and start the Mars mission over. This time I choosed a different Pistol.
I fired 4 shots to the head and the spy died.

I am now working my way through my 2nd play through. I enojoy having all the weapons
I am only carrying 2 weapon to keep my weight down to help regenerate

Enjoying the game and hope this info helps others.

[Esoretal]

Klijpope wrote...

Finally, the childish tantruming vs BioWare and especially Casey Hudson and Marc Walters is, frankly, embarrassing.

It is easier to take arguments seriously if they have perspective. Many in this thread, while I sympathise with their points, do not show any perspective in this matter.

Childish tantruming does not represent the majority of protestors. I have seen hundreds of posts calmly explaining why ninety percent of fans wish for a change. Only a few are flat-out demanding it. I have also seen the opposite side of the argument, where some of the opponents of the change are literally calling us stupid for asking for one.

Modifié par Esoretal, 16 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[Grimsaw]

I came here angry and upset a few days ago. Canceled my SWTOR account in protest. I've kinda come full circle now I guess. Since bwFex pretty much summed up exactly how I felt about the endings, I won't say anything else on that subject.

I guess I just don't care anymore. Not to take anything away from the "Hold the line" crew, I think what you guys are doing is pretty cool, but at this point I'm just going to take Mass Effect 3 for what it is, warts and all.

BSN: Thank you for some great posts. You guys really helped me work through the pain. Bioware: Thank you for an AMAZING trilogy. Seriously, it's still one of my most favorites ever. I know you guys really worked hard on this one. It's too bad things didn't work out as well as you probably wanted.

I'm off to go play some SWTOR (Yeah I'm turning it back on).

Thank you for your time.

Modifié par Grimsaw, 16 mars 2012 - 06:23 .

[vigna]

There is also a big difference between a collaberative effort and an individual effort. I would be less apt to ask for change if it was the creation of one person, but this is the creation of an entire team. Neon Genesis Evangelion did it, Marvel abd DC comics do it all the time, etc. I think the infallibility of the artist is a bit of a stretch.

Example:
If I paint a painting and it looks wonderful, and everyone thinks upon first impression that it loooks great, but then some people look a little more closely and figure out my light source is coming from the right, but I messed up and put all my shadows on the right. You know what--that ruins what would be an otherwise nice painting for the people that discovered it. Those people can appreciate the brushstrokes, the colors, detail, technique--none of it matters, because the error with the shadows sticks in their minds. Other people may be more forgiving of it, but others not so much.
As an individual painter I could leave it alone or i could fix it--it may only take some tweaks, but it could take some doing and repair. That would be my choice as a painter, but it doesn't fix that the error is there.
If you are a critical writer, an editor, or a writer the ending immediately sticks in your head as if you were an art editor or teacher looking at the flawed painting in the example. Some can appreciate all the effort and the other beautiful things, but for many others it is flat out impossible once the flaw has been discovered.

Even if you think "it's just a game" you are right for yourself alone, and others who may be more invested in a creator's work may also take this more harshly, or find it more jarring and out of place. Being excellent matters, being correct matters--if you are doing a math problem, and somewhere along the equation make an error and mess up the end--it doesn't change the fact that the end is wrong. No matter if all the rest along the way was mostly right.

Not the perfect example, but I think it fits...Especially if you are usuing the artistic integrity argument.

[bkp360]

It doesn't matter if you made peace with the Quarians and Geth cause at the end you have to destroy all synthetic life. Oppps hahahah Legion I was just kidding you all die anyway!

And the Mass Effect Relays sure... I guess FTL would still work but it appears to have missed the plant where Grampy and his wide eyed kid were looking at the moon wondering what was up there. I guess no one uplifted the survivors of Joker and my LI offspring. (Thanks for that Joker. Glad you ran off with my girl.)

No all ending end with civilization in ruins, technology back to the industrial age, massive loss of Galactic life, Shep dead (or clinging to life in rubble) my LI light years away and no way to find her, the rest of my crew dead or abandoned by Joker as he steals my ship. But thank God Gramy and the kid can stargaze and spin yarns about "The Shepard".

Of course I suppose if the ending is to be believed then some other race would basically remake the reapers and it will all start over.

"It has all happened before and will all happen again".. oh wait that's Battlestar Galactica
"This has all happened before"... oh wait that's The Matrix

How about something original. Like an Old Woman at the end totally senile telling Shep she has no clue to anything and just crapped her pants. Then let Shep make some choices that mean something. But you couldn't resist the "Cute/wise beyond his years cherubic kid" the most trite trope in all of entertainment world.

[Tony Redgrave]

Outburst!

What I want.

Varied endings directly affected by my Shepards choices, directly and visualy affected by the total and effective military strenght (s)he asembles during Mass Effect 3, endings ranging from the worst possible outcome to the best possible outcome.

I want to destroy the Reapers, end the cycle, retake earth and I want to watch the galaxy united, standing against the Reapers!

And at the end of it all I want to stand together with the friends, loved ones and allies whom my Shepard fought so hard for, those who fought side by side with my Shepard no matter what the odds or the enemy.
Like we were promised. I want a conclusion, I want closure.

Yes there can and should be sacrifice, yes there can be suffering, yes there can be loss and yes the aftermath would undeniably be hard. But atleast I would know if I do well enough I would be rewarded with an ending that Shepard and Mass Effect deserves.

I would wear out the New Game button.

Outburst over. for now.
I couldn't help my self...

Modifié par Spaz85, 16 mars 2012 - 06:18 .

[michal9o90]

@Gringo2585 well its EA, what we can expected from them?

I have only hope now, that my theory will be rigth, and that was only shepard figth with indoctrination in his mind, and afterhe wake up we will see soon with DLC the real ending.

[cobnut]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

LarkGal wrote...

bwFex wrote...

...Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing...

This.

This X2.

This x3

..amongst several other reasons.

[Archonsg]

Here's something that's bothering me about this thread.

Where are all the old Talimancers? One would think this thread would have hit 1000 pages already.
^.^

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

There is a lot that I love about all three games. From ME3 though I would have to say may two fovorite scenes are the one with the Rachni Queen and Moriden's death scene. The Doc went out in style I'd say. The Geth Collective is another good scene that I completly enjoyed. I also like the EDI and Joker pairing... dang I love so much of it I keep rambling on about it.

That being said the as stated by other: The last ten minutes kinda killed it for me. I wanted to be able to reconect with Tali as my male Shep and with femShep I wanted to be able to be with Liara for as long as humanly possible. I think surviving the Synth ending would be visable considering Comander Shepard is already a bio-synthetic fusion. Thats just my thought though. As stated I would personally love to see an ending where Shep survives even if he/she has to fight their way out of the Citadel. Also the relays destruction is a bit much don't ya think?

[Zombies_Dead]

I loved ALL three Games up to the point of the ending of ME3. I HATE the ending... I spend years of playing, attaching myself to my
Sheppard through all the games, read all the books and the comics for
WHAT??? A starchild tells you pick your choice how to die? All i wanted is to build a nice House, live with Tali.... and oh yeah and SURVIVE to enjoy it with her!!!
I'm also very disappointed to not get to talk to my Tali without her helmet...  hate it it's just a picture in the end!!!
There
was no dialog in these choices, just a monolog... In the end you do not
get to know what built the Reapers except that some starchild claimed
he didi it.
After i played it through all three endings i was DESOLATED!!! Of the inability to change anything except the color in the end (you
know what i mean).
And why is the Normandy crashed on another planet??? They would NEVER leave Sheppard behind, they must have 
gone through the relay before you made your "choice"  because as soon you made it in the one or other way the relays are destroyed.
Well thats my opinion for what it's worth.

[TheRealMithril]

Archonsg wrote...

Here's something that's bothering me about this thread.

Where are all the old Talimancers? One would think this thread would have hit 1000 pages already.
^.^

They probably left because of all the bwFex posters.

[Genera1Nemesis]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Here's something that's bothering me about this thread.

Where are all the old Talimancers? One would think this thread would have hit 1000 pages already.
^.^

They probably left because of all the bwFex posters.

lol.

[DESTRAUDO]

Amazing that you seem to know your codex so well but do not know that ftl drives in ME can do 12 light years a day. The codex is totally correct in that mass effect relays join places hundreds of years apart by conventional ftl. However  i specifically discussed it in terms of being able to visit systems close to sol and access their resources. Also with patience a longer trip would work, they would just have to make jumps between systems less than 50 lights years in distance to discharge. 

Ay the rate of speed goven for current drives yes it would take maybe 100 years to reach the opposite side of the galaxy to the geth , but the progan dmz is only about 5000 lightyears, or a years travel. 

And again, i stated this would be unnecessary because the mass relay system can and undoubtedlty will be rebuilt . 

Lurchibald wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

I think the ending was well crafted. I think it carried enough ambiguity to make it something worth discussing and debating. However, the ending did indeed happen. The indoctrination theories are grasping heavily at straws, totally ignore anything that would be considered a hit against the credibility of their logic.

1)The entire indoctrination theory is based on the idea that at some point shepard loses control. Some suggest that the rubble at the end means he was still in london and that it was all an indoctrination dream after he was hit by the reaper beam. Why would the reapers bother to engage in that, when they could just fire a second beam, or stomp on his half dead corpse.

2)People suggest that Anderson getting to the control room before you also indicated it is a dream/indoctrination. In the game Anderson specifically states that he was dropped off by the beam somewhere different to you. He was also in a lot better condition than you, and from the timeline of events only beat you to the control room by 30-60 seconds. The fourth wall reality though is that he had to be in the room before you because that was how they wanted the three way conversation between you two and the illusive man to play out, and by they i mean devs, not reapers.

3)As for the ending, i chose to blend organic and synthetic life. I thought the tech/synthetic pattern on jokers skin at the end was pretty awesome to boot. Why did i choose that ending? Because it was the best ending. It brought an end to all war between organics and synthetics now and in the future. I did it for the same reason Mordin sacrificed himself to cure the genophage, for the same reason legion sacrificed himself to raise the geth to a new level. If any of the people complaining played towards paragon, what makes your shepard deserving of a cheat out of the consequences of the situation. If you want that cheat, blow up all synthetic life in the galaxy. Blow up the get you saved, and blow up EDI while you are at it. You get to live at the end but you wiped out at least 2 races to do it. That to me is not the paragon option, that is two counts of genocide. Taking control of the reapers is better, you are not wiping out the geth, but you still enslaving a machine race.


The last thing i want to hit on is some of the bizarro world scenarios people are coming up with. The universe is doomed and all the fleets are trapped and they will all die of starvation. Where does this even come from? The leaps of negative logic required to come to these conclusions are staggering.
I have seen it painted as being the end of the mass effect universe. Not in the least.

4)In the mass effect universe, FTL drives are capable of doing at least 12 light years per day cruising. Any time you make a trip on the galaxy map that does not involve a mass relay you are using this drive system. While it would be long haul, you could get to the krogan dmz in about a year. You would not have to, but i will get to that in a moment. The point here is that at the very least, there would be dozens and dozens of systems within easy range of the fleet. Days travel tops, so stranded or starved for resources they are not. And that is not even considering what would happen when they have the necessity to improve the speed and efficiency of their standard ftl drives.

Not that it matters. Even presuming you took what i think is the worst ending, blowing up the reapers, the destruction of the mass relays is at best, a minor inconvenience. There are pockets of super advanced tech in the galaxy, for example where all the galaxys greatest minds gathered to build the crucible. In me2 an asari barmaid casually referred to the asari needing to get off their ass and start building mass effect relays. I think it is well within the abilities of the current cycle to get the relay system back up in a not unreasonable volume of time. I mean they built the crucible in what was in theory a couple of months tops, a mass relay is not beyond their abilities. And if you controlled the reapers or fused organic with synthetic then i would happily speculate that the reapers would have the knowledge to construct mass relays.

Yes, the ending changed the mass effect universe immeasurably. It did not end it. I would LOVE to see some prologue DLC, or a MMO set in the mass effect universe some time before or after these events but i was honestly very happy with the ending i got and i would be really disappointed if the devs cave and rewrite it.

1. Because it makes total sense that Shepard is able to breathe in rubble in space with no helmet...
2. The problem is that there is only one path to that room.
3. So Saren was right all along? http://www.youtube.c...TNEeGxg#t=1m33s
4. FTL wouldn't work

Mass Relay Codex entry wrote...
 They are enormous structures scattered throughout the stars, and can create corridors of virtually mass-free space allowing instantaneous transit between locations separated by years or even centuries of travel using conventional FTL drives.

Thats not days, also, space is very empty, they would have to reach a planet every 50 hours to discharge their FTL drives (otherwise everyone on board a ship would fry, read your codex) and larger ships have to discharge their cores more often... oh, and they would need fuel....

[UKillMeLongTime]

Basically it ended but without the Fallout type of 'what happened' in requards to your choices in all major plots

[TheRealMithril]

Who cares about the FTL..? This is about the ending and the memorabilia.