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[Garhdo]

I forgot to mention. The one thing I wanted added more than anything to this game are epilogues!!

Similar to the Dragon Age Origins epilogues (or Shepard's personal history codex entry from Mass 1) these pieces of text could change based on your choices. They should cover all our squadmates, other major characters and the fates of the races for the near future, answering questions such as whether the krogan became hostile again, did the quarians keep the peace with the geth etc. However the ending needs a resolution such as that in my previous post before these would make much sense.

Fingers crossed!!!

PS. Also I am fine without a happy ending. I was always expecting Shepard to die in the finale to stop the Reapers. While it would be nice for my Shepard to settle with Liara and get his little blue children I'm really not expecting it.

[VonVerrikan]

Look at these responses, Casey. Just look at it. You really hurt your fans by taking the game in this direction. You still have it in you to change all this. You still can redeem everything.. please don't let us down.

If you want to end the series after ME3, you can still do it by leaving us with a feeling of accomplishment and closure. These endings are not befitting of the franchise you created..

Give us a positive ending option. Show us that our choices really did matter in the end. You can do it, I know you can.

[TheMerchantMan]

Ah, finally. I've been stalking the forums for the last two days waiting for the ability to post.

Anyways. Thank you Mr. Priestly for at least letting us know you are listening about the ending, it worries me, of course, because I would prefer you were doing something, or  at least keeping something back, whereas listening seems to just prove that you weren't prepared for this, and I had hoped Bioware was better than that.

The problem with asking "what we enjoyed" before the end, is that the end has for all extensive purposes made the rest of the series unenjoyable. All the good we have done is ultimately futile in all of the possible end games. That hurts, and it means I can't revisit them.

I think perhaps the moment with the strongest impact on me, was the death of Legion. His act of messanic sacrifice to bring his people full sentience was touching in itself but when combined with his final question to Tali, and her answer "The answer is yes.". I was moved, moved more deeply than I have ever been before, it was cathartic and meaningful. I stood up and clapped in admiration, fought tears because it was simply beautiful.

I felt the same way when Mordin sacrificed himself for the good of the Krogans, while he hummed that silly song of his, bravely facing death to right his wrongs. It was conflicting, it was heart-wrenching, it made me feel as though I was there, that I wanted my shepard to go up and save him, but I knew I couldn't, he couldn't, It made me feel like I was truly inside the world.

But because of the ending you gave us. You have robbed these moments of their meaning. This is true regardless of what we ultimately choose.

If we choose the blue ending, which if I have any trust in your writer's abilities, I must imagine was a trap (though not necessarily the indoctrtination theory I'm sure you've heard much about), because the cognitive dissonance of Shepard when he is told about it, after just arguing with TIM that control was too risky is too maddeningly unsensical otherwise. And thus Legion and all other synthetics like him will be destroyed anyways.

If we choose the green, then it renders his sacrifice, as well as Mordin's sacrfice completely unnecessary, you turn two of the most moving moments in the game into things that are painful to watch afterwards, because all I want to say is "No, you don't need to, no there is another way" and that is all supposing that the Synthesis ending is indeed good. To me it sounds exactly like the drivel we heard from Saren, a further indictment towards my theory that the final moments of the game, were if not a dream, most certainly a trick.

Finally, if we choose the red, it destroys all the Geth and AI , rendering his sacrifice just as moot.

And even if someone how there were one, say the Blue in which Legion's sacfice could indeed have meant something, it is still meaningless because the Mass Relays are destroyed. The one thing that made this series what it was, the single most identifiable feature is destroyed, and yes, that makes sense for one of the endings, it's powerful and emotional, but when it is true of all the endings, it means that no matter what the sacrifices of Mordin, Legion, Thane, and Ashley. Indeed all of their sacrifices meant nothing, because humanity and the rest of the galaxy's races are a best sent back to the dark ages and at worst destroyed utterly.

The geth will not survive the end, the quarians will not survive the end, humanity does not survive the end, the turians do not survive the end. Not with any semblece of what you've fought for.



What's worse is that, supposing you meant for this to happen, supposing this end really was exactly what you intended to create, a dark and grim afterlook, one that culiminates not in joy but in a gut-wrenching sorrow. Then you were so close to creating it, but instead through the way you culiminated the final scene with the normandy and the Stargazer epilogue.
You missed the oppurtunity to make a haunting, dark, but ultimately inspirational ending. If you had simply used your discarded Chekov's Gun. Liaria's time capsule. No matter how you played, Liara introduces this time capsule. No? 
If you had wished for a no-win scenario, you could have discarded the entire end and simply let Shepard die. Humanity lose. The entire galaxy die. But that time capsule, would have made the ending brilliant. Brought the epilogue from tacked on and confusing to meaningful and inspiring. Life will go on, this will be the final cycle.

Instead, we get a message that seems to say to us, "everything you did" is meaningless, and that hurts.

Which reminds me, Liara was always my favourite character but where you took her in Mass Effect 3 brought her above and beyond, she developed in ways I never expected, I can truly say by the end of the game, I wished as though she were real. The moments like the time capsule, and of Thessia, and comforting her, these sorts of things gave me absolute chills.

But where do I go from here? I won't accept, nay can't accept that she is off on some other planet where she will never hear from me, of me, or at least of my death. Her story concluding with death in some far-flung planet, never having known that I saved the galaxy. Indeed, that is something overlooked on the forums, there is absolutely no way that without FTL communication, Joker, or any of the Normandy crew, indeed the entire galaxy would know that the Reapers had been defeated. Any world that hasn't been hit already will simply have to writhe in panic, the ones that have, at best know something has happened and at worst think they are the last organic life in the galaxy.

That's mind-numbingly bad. That invalidates the epilogue's ending even with the most cheery disposition. That reaches far beyond simple plot hole and into unforgivable mistake.

Anyways. Sorry, I'm still sore Bioware. But know this.

I'm not angry because I think you have failed, no. Mass Effect 3 is a triumph, as angry as I am about the ending, I reccomend any fan of the series buys the game, it is a masterpiece. It is a symphony, a beautiful end to the most engaging world I have ever been a part of, I am disappointed because that triumph is spoiled in the very last moments of the game, by something which throws away all that we cared for, all that you had done so well, all that truly made the series great. In favour of something that felt as though, and as the Ipad app now proves was, the result of hasty comprimise, misunderstanding and rushing.

Rather than the send-off we receive, we get mixed messages, mixed signals, convulted story elements and deus ex machina, where we already had a deus ex machina, the catalyst was already a god from the machine in the story, to make it literal seems like meta-humour gone terribly wrong.

[FOX216BC]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

FOX216BC wrote...

Asking for your favorite moment is just a way to not have you talking about the ending.
How can they "On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening" if they make us talk about somthing else.

I think it's safe to say they are listening; there are a million post about it on here and other sites. It's just that a lot of people are claiming that the entire game is ruined by final 0.001% of game, and that is just downright wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if they need to hear some positive considering people are pretty much threatening to pull an "Annie" from Misery on them.

Than he should have made two topics.
One for the favorite moments
And one for the ending
It will make bioware job of getting feedback much easier.
If the topics come from Bioware themselves fans will be more than happy to help.

[Alxea_Eve]

XSarenXArteriusX wrote...

Alxea_Eve wrote...

New endings need to include,
choices all of them need to mean something, our choices should have a
large impact on the game and not suddenly for nothing, assets need to
mean something and have a impact on the endings, romanced characters need
to be included. We want to build a house for Tali, make some babies
with her, closure like that for our loves.We want to see our assets just
like in ME2. Why did we never see that in ME3? Ship upgrades mattered
in ME2, assets mean nothing in ME3 so what happened? Why do we never see
all of the ships we should see or all of our army that we gathered?

dont think humans and quarians can have babies together......

Her body adapted she says, if she gets use to shepard like she did, maybe her body can adapt in other ways. Hybrids happen all the time in the sci-fi. Nothing is impossible. The asari can reproduce with anybody and are not 100% asari tho they may look like it.. Just because its never been done to our knowlage does not make it impossible. The point is, we don't know. But in 2186 who knows. Only bioware can tell us whats possible or not, its their species.

[TehShizno]

Nette wrote...

StripedStocking wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

^This is absolutely perfect.

I agree. You just summed up all my feelings about this. Please, please, PLEASE Bioware, make it right! Don't leave us in this horrible place of darkness and despair....*whispers* please... 

I could not have said it better myself. This is exactly how I felt after finishing the game 

[Archonsg]

That last 1% being this bad should not have ruined our experience as a whole? What Bioware did was "Hey guys, make your decisions, choose carefully! THERE WILL BE CAKE! What kind of cake is up to you!" Then gave us a squeezed lemon.

Modifié par Archonsg, 16 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[Teacher50]

Garhdo wrote...

I forgot to mention. The one thing I wanted added more than anything to this game are epilogues!!

Similar to the Dragon Age Origins epilogues (or Shepard's personal history codex entry from Mass 1) these pieces of text could change based on your choices. They should cover all our squadmates, other major characters and the fates of the races for the near future, answering questions such as whether the krogan became hostile again, did the quarians keep the peace with the geth etc. However the ending needs a resolution such as that in my previous post before these would make much sense.

Fingers crossed!!!

PS. Also I am fine without a happy ending. I was always expecting Shepard to die in the finale to stop the Reapers. While it would be nice for my Shepard to settle with Liara and get his little blue children I'm really not expecting it.

Well, you should be able to get that ending too!

[Alxea_Eve]

And I know quarians and humans have a DNA difference. That still does not make it impossible. The asari are the same. They can do it, so can any other species, as far as making hybrids.

[bloodstone2007]

Ok I have to say, I am not very fond of the endings as well as the forced cut scene on Thesia. I had that punk dead to rights and the only reason I lost was because of a forced cut scene. Kie Lang on Thesia cut scene is very bad form. I could see if there was a timer, Kie Land died on Thesia, what difference does it make if he dies there? Is Bioware saying Kie lang is more powerful than a reaper and the Normandy? Now as far as the endings go, there is the camp that says Shepard was indoctrinated, unfortunately there is no in game lore that I ever saw that even eluded to that fact. There were plenty of times to do this as well, it was never done. So if Shepard is indoctrinated on earth there is still no closure since its all a dream ending, and dream endings don't ever make sense.
That being said, Where is the final boss fight? Even if its defeat a reaper on the citadel or fight your way to open the citadel where is the boss fight!? I mean really, that should have been the epic ending. I fully expected Shepard to have to sacrifice himself to win, we didn't even get that. We go chocolate vanilla and strawberry....The playability of the series at this point is destroyed, there is no incentive to purchase 1 or 2 to see what changes, since there are no differences in 3, way to go EA/Bioware destroy your own franchise how is that good business? How is alienating the fanbase a smart thing. I understand that they wanted to have an edgy ending, this however wasn't it, it fell flat on its face and left a very bad impression of bioware with me.
I don't really believe that there will be a change since most of the DLC is focused on the multi-player. Saddly if that is the focus, this will be the last EA/bioware purchase I make.

[RobinEJ]

FOX216BC wrote...

Asking for your favorite moment is just a way to not have you talking about the ending.
How can they "On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening" if they make us talk about somthing else.

Rather 3 colors..

[Blackluc]

I think everything was great, I mean, I got so emotive on the fall on Thessia... and Thane! NOOO... You got everything really good, except the ending with the catalyst. If felt out of it's place, and the little boy had nothing to do there. The catalyst is something REALLY ancient, but somehow it looks like a human little boy, out of Shepard's mind.

[strikeferret]

I don't know what else to add other people haven't mentioned, so I'll just through my weight behind it was an amazing experience. The entire game was fantastic, full of well-written and human moments, right up until that last conversation with our old friend before the last choice in the game. If the game had ended there it would have been kinda disappointing, but still amazing. The end doesn't work. I don't need a happy ending, I just don't want one that doesn't either A) make me slaughter my own allies, Become what I'd faught for two games, or C) A non-sensical ending that simply wasn't the other two.

It didn't even solve the problem it was designed to solve. It was non-sensical.

I was a huge fan of the game, but the ending soured me against even replaying it again. It was no dumber than the ending of The Matrix 3, Deus Ex, or similar media with poor endings, but the contrast between the amazing game and the poor ending was like listening to a symphony that ends with "twinkle twinkle little star" for six minutes.

If you're thinking of ways to change things, I'd happily take simply blowing out the Reapers, the thing at the end, and taking my chances with the universe's "problem" that thing tried to solve. The fate of Shepard doesn't need to be changed. Heroes don't always make it.

[earthonline]

 btw if anyone in curious what all the endings are, here is an article that lists them (SPOILERS)
List fo all Mass Effect 3 Endings

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

TheMerchantMan wrote...

Ah, finally. I've been stalking the forums for the last two days waiting for the ability to post.

Anyways. Thank you Mr. Priestly for at least letting us know you are listening about the ending, it worries me, of course, because I would prefer you were doing something, or  at least keeping something back, whereas listening seems to just prove that you weren't prepared for this, and I had hoped Bioware was better than that.

The problem with asking "what we enjoyed" before the end, is that the end has for all extensive purposes made the rest of the series unenjoyable. All the good we have done is ultimately futile in all of the possible end games. That hurts, and it means I can't revisit them.

I think perhaps the moment with the strongest impact on me, was the death of Legion. His act of messanic sacrifice to bring his people full sentience was touching in itself but when combined with his final question to Tali, and her answer "The answer is yes.". I was moved, moved more deeply than I have ever been before, it was cathartic and meaningful. I stood up and clapped in admiration, fought tears because it was simply beautiful.

I felt the same way when Mordin sacrificed himself for the good of the Krogans, while he hummed that silly song of his, bravely facing death to right his wrongs. It was conflicting, it was heart-wrenching, it made me feel as though I was there, that I wanted my shepard to go up and save him, but I knew I couldn't, he couldn't, It made me feel like I was truly inside the world.

But because of the ending you gave us. You have robbed these moments of their meaning. This is true regardless of what we ultimately choose.

If we choose the blue ending, which if I have any trust in your writer's abilities, I must imagine was a trap (though not necessarily the indoctrtination theory I'm sure you've heard much about), because the cognitive dissonance of Shepard when he is told about it, after just arguing with TIM that control was too risky is too maddeningly unsensical otherwise. And thus Legion and all other synthetics like him will be destroyed anyways.

If we choose the green, then it renders his sacrifice, as well as Mordin's sacrfice completely unnecessary, you turn two of the most moving moments in the game into things that are painful to watch afterwards, because all I want to say is "No, you don't need to, no there is another way" and that is all supposing that the Synthesis ending is indeed good. To me it sounds exactly like the drivel we heard from Saren, a further indictment towards my theory that the final moments of the game, were if not a dream, most certainly a trick.

Finally, if we choose the red, it destroys all the Geth and AI , rendering his sacrifice just as moot.

And even if someone how there were one, say the Blue in which Legion's sacfice could indeed have meant something, it is still meaningless because the Mass Relays are destroyed. The one thing that made this series what it was, the single most identifiable feature is destroyed, and yes, that makes sense for one of the endings, it's powerful and emotional, but when it is true of all the endings, it means that no matter what the sacrifices of Mordin, Legion, Thane, and Ashley. Indeed all of their sacrifices meant nothing, because humanity and the rest of the galaxy's races are a best sent back to the dark ages and at worst destroyed utterly.

The geth will not survive the end, the quarians will not survive the end, humanity does not survive the end, the turians do not survive the end. Not with any semblece of what you've fought for.



What's worse is that, supposing you meant for this to happen, supposing this end really was exactly what you intended to create, a dark and grim afterlook, one that culiminates not in joy but in a gut-wrenching sorrow. Then you were so close to creating it, but instead through the way you culiminated the final scene with the normandy and the Stargazer epilogue.
You missed the oppurtunity to make a haunting, dark, but ultimately inspirational ending. If you had simply used your discarded Chekov's Gun. Liaria's time capsule. No matter how you played, Liara introduces this time capsule. No? 
If you had wished for a no-win scenario, you could have discarded the entire end and simply let Shepard die. Humanity lose. The entire galaxy die. But that time capsule, would have made the ending brilliant. Brought the epilogue from tacked on and confusing to meaningful and inspiring. Life will go on, this will be the final cycle.

Instead, we get a message that seems to say to us, "everything you did" is meaningless, and that hurts.

Which reminds me, Liara was always my favourite character but where you took her in Mass Effect 3 brought her above and beyond, she developed in ways I never expected, I can truly say by the end of the game, I wished as though she were real. The moments like the time capsule, and of Thessia, and comforting her, these sorts of things gave me absolute chills.

But where do I go from here? I won't accept, nay can't accept that she is off on some other planet where she will never hear from me, of me, or at least of my death. Her story concluding with death in some far-flung planet, never having known that I saved the galaxy. Indeed, that is something overlooked on the forums, there is absolutely no way that without FTL communication, Joker, or any of the Normandy crew, indeed the entire galaxy would know that the Reapers had been defeated. Any world that hasn't been hit already will simply have to writhe in panic, the ones that have, at best know something has happened and at worst think they are the last organic life in the galaxy.

That's mind-numbingly bad. That invalidates the epilogue's ending even with the most cheery disposition. That reaches far beyond simple plot hole and into unforgivable mistake.

Anyways. Sorry, I'm still sore Bioware. But know this.

I'm not angry because I think you have failed, no. Mass Effect 3 is a triumph, as angry as I am about the ending, I reccomend any fan of the series buys the game, it is a masterpiece. It is a symphony, a beautiful end to the most engaging world I have ever been a part of, I am disappointed because that triumph is spoiled in the very last moments of the game, by something which throws away all that we cared for, all that you had done so well, all that truly made the series great. In favour of something that felt as though, and as the Ipad app now proves was, the result of hasty comprimise, misunderstanding and rushing.

Rather than the send-off we receive, we get mixed messages, mixed signals, convulted story elements and deus ex machina, where we already had a deus ex machina, the catalyst was already a god from the machine in the story, to make it literal seems like meta-humour gone terribly wrong.

This so much this.

You said it better then anyone else so far.  If you don't want to send this in tomorrow as part of the letter writing please let me know because I think someone should send it in.

[michael99887766]

TehShizno wrote...

Nette wrote...

StripedStocking wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

^This is absolutely perfect.

I agree. You just summed up all my feelings about this. Please, please, PLEASE Bioware, make it right! Don't leave us in this horrible place of darkness and despair....*whispers* please... 

I could not have said it better myself. This is exactly how I felt after finishing the game 

QFT

[Ukjack44]

My favourite moment was the entire game...up until it gave me the choice of A, B or C as an ending. Then I decided my favourite moment was playing Skyrim.

[RiGoRmOrTiS_UK]

This article is soooooo spot on ...

http://pixelatedgeek...aws-of-victory/

I just can't wait to see what contrived explanation Bioware use

I'm sure it will be centered around indirectly dismissing everyone's issues with the ending while trying to explain their "artistic vision" and they'll avoid directly answering plot-holes or things they can't explain away..

If they actually come back with a humbled response which is either admission they made a mistake and didn't really think it through or at the very least an apology I'll eat my pants.

If they say they are going to rework the ending as its clear they made a mistake then I'll probably pass out from shock...

Modifié par RiGoRmOrTiS_UK, 16 mars 2012 - 08:09 .

[Egermano]

I liked the ending. Most of it was to be expected from the games anyways.

Some details don't add up though, like Normandy's escape, and the crew's survival.
For more on that read Gamefront's summary:
http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/4/

And for the record, my best moment was the Geth-Quarian peace settlement. A bit too fairytale-ish but very touching.

My worst part? That messagebox at the end informing me about DLCs. Please, don't ask for my money, I just finished your game, ffs!

[Tony Redgrave]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

TheMerchantMan wrote...

Ah, finally. I've been stalking the forums for the last two days waiting for the ability to post.

Anyways. Thank you Mr. Priestly for at least letting us know you are listening about the ending, it worries me, of course, because I would prefer you were doing something, or  at least keeping something back, whereas listening seems to just prove that you weren't prepared for this, and I had hoped Bioware was better than that.

The problem with asking "what we enjoyed" before the end, is that the end has for all extensive purposes made the rest of the series unenjoyable. All the good we have done is ultimately futile in all of the possible end games. That hurts, and it means I can't revisit them.

I think perhaps the moment with the strongest impact on me, was the death of Legion. His act of messanic sacrifice to bring his people full sentience was touching in itself but when combined with his final question to Tali, and her answer "The answer is yes.". I was moved, moved more deeply than I have ever been before, it was cathartic and meaningful. I stood up and clapped in admiration, fought tears because it was simply beautiful.

I felt the same way when Mordin sacrificed himself for the good of the Krogans, while he hummed that silly song of his, bravely facing death to right his wrongs. It was conflicting, it was heart-wrenching, it made me feel as though I was there, that I wanted my shepard to go up and save him, but I knew I couldn't, he couldn't, It made me feel like I was truly inside the world.

But because of the ending you gave us. You have robbed these moments of their meaning. This is true regardless of what we ultimately choose.

If we choose the blue ending, which if I have any trust in your writer's abilities, I must imagine was a trap (though not necessarily the indoctrtination theory I'm sure you've heard much about), because the cognitive dissonance of Shepard when he is told about it, after just arguing with TIM that control was too risky is too maddeningly unsensical otherwise. And thus Legion and all other synthetics like him will be destroyed anyways.

If we choose the green, then it renders his sacrifice, as well as Mordin's sacrfice completely unnecessary, you turn two of the most moving moments in the game into things that are painful to watch afterwards, because all I want to say is "No, you don't need to, no there is another way" and that is all supposing that the Synthesis ending is indeed good. To me it sounds exactly like the drivel we heard from Saren, a further indictment towards my theory that the final moments of the game, were if not a dream, most certainly a trick.

Finally, if we choose the red, it destroys all the Geth and AI , rendering his sacrifice just as moot.

And even if someone how there were one, say the Blue in which Legion's sacfice could indeed have meant something, it is still meaningless because the Mass Relays are destroyed. The one thing that made this series what it was, the single most identifiable feature is destroyed, and yes, that makes sense for one of the endings, it's powerful and emotional, but when it is true of all the endings, it means that no matter what the sacrifices of Mordin, Legion, Thane, and Ashley. Indeed all of their sacrifices meant nothing, because humanity and the rest of the galaxy's races are a best sent back to the dark ages and at worst destroyed utterly.

The geth will not survive the end, the quarians will not survive the end, humanity does not survive the end, the turians do not survive the end. Not with any semblece of what you've fought for.



What's worse is that, supposing you meant for this to happen, supposing this end really was exactly what you intended to create, a dark and grim afterlook, one that culiminates not in joy but in a gut-wrenching sorrow. Then you were so close to creating it, but instead through the way you culiminated the final scene with the normandy and the Stargazer epilogue.
You missed the oppurtunity to make a haunting, dark, but ultimately inspirational ending. If you had simply used your discarded Chekov's Gun. Liaria's time capsule. No matter how you played, Liara introduces this time capsule. No? 
If you had wished for a no-win scenario, you could have discarded the entire end and simply let Shepard die. Humanity lose. The entire galaxy die. But that time capsule, would have made the ending brilliant. Brought the epilogue from tacked on and confusing to meaningful and inspiring. Life will go on, this will be the final cycle.

Instead, we get a message that seems to say to us, "everything you did" is meaningless, and that hurts.

Which reminds me, Liara was always my favourite character but where you took her in Mass Effect 3 brought her above and beyond, she developed in ways I never expected, I can truly say by the end of the game, I wished as though she were real. The moments like the time capsule, and of Thessia, and comforting her, these sorts of things gave me absolute chills.

But where do I go from here? I won't accept, nay can't accept that she is off on some other planet where she will never hear from me, of me, or at least of my death. Her story concluding with death in some far-flung planet, never having known that I saved the galaxy. Indeed, that is something overlooked on the forums, there is absolutely no way that without FTL communication, Joker, or any of the Normandy crew, indeed the entire galaxy would know that the Reapers had been defeated. Any world that hasn't been hit already will simply have to writhe in panic, the ones that have, at best know something has happened and at worst think they are the last organic life in the galaxy.

That's mind-numbingly bad. That invalidates the epilogue's ending even with the most cheery disposition. That reaches far beyond simple plot hole and into unforgivable mistake.

Anyways. Sorry, I'm still sore Bioware. But know this.

I'm not angry because I think you have failed, no. Mass Effect 3 is a triumph, as angry as I am about the ending, I reccomend any fan of the series buys the game, it is a masterpiece. It is a symphony, a beautiful end to the most engaging world I have ever been a part of, I am disappointed because that triumph is spoiled in the very last moments of the game, by something which throws away all that we cared for, all that you had done so well, all that truly made the series great. In favour of something that felt as though, and as the Ipad app now proves was, the result of hasty comprimise, misunderstanding and rushing.

Rather than the send-off we receive, we get mixed messages, mixed signals, convulted story elements and deus ex machina, where we already had a deus ex machina, the catalyst was already a god from the machine in the story, to make it literal seems like meta-humour gone terribly wrong.

This so much this.

You said it better then anyone else so far.  If you don't want to send this in tomorrow as part of the letter writing please let me know because I think someone should send it in.

I'm sorry, but I have to quote this one too.
Well said.

[fenrirairwolf]

wish there was a boss encounter with harvinger or a dialog with harvinger near the ending of the game so he can fill any gaps in  the story

It was sort of cruel showing tali removing her mask in ME2 and ME3 but not letting us see what a quarian face looks like

favorite momment was the watching the space fight cut scene where the all the spacecraft started to attack the reapers on earth

[shoshbear]

michael99887766 wrote...

TehShizno wrote...

Nette wrote...

StripedStocking wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

^This is absolutely perfect.

I agree. You just summed up all my feelings about this. Please, please, PLEASE Bioware, make it right! Don't leave us in this horrible place of darkness and despair....*whispers* please... 

I could not have said it better myself. This is exactly how I felt after finishing the game 

QFT

*Slow Clap* That was one of the most poignant, well thought out and expressed opinions on this whole issue I've read so far. Kudos friend.

[Genera1Nemesis]

shoshbear wrote...

michael99887766 wrote...

TehShizno wrote...

Nette wrote...

StripedStocking wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

^This is absolutely perfect.

I agree. You just summed up all my feelings about this. Please, please, PLEASE Bioware, make it right! Don't leave us in this horrible place of darkness and despair....*whispers* please... 

I could not have said it better myself. This is exactly how I felt after finishing the game 

QFT

*Slow Clap* That was one of the most poignant, well thought out and expressed opinions on this whole issue I've read so far. Kudos friend.

Yes, it is very well written. Now please stop spamming i, it is on every single page already.

[DnVill]

Fix the holes... coudn't care less if Shepard dies

[sistersafetypin]

My favorite moment was that part at the end where everything I did in the past 3 games came together and made sense in the ending.

Oh wait.