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Don't normally post on forums that involve venting one's subjective opinion... but the ending (singular) was the biggest let-down I've experienced in my twenty years of gaming experience. Choices did not matter in the final level or the outcome. The entire time I was doing London, I kept expecting my armies of Krogan troops and Geth friends to come to my aid at any moment--alas, no. Throw in the technicolor endings that are in no way related to the choices I made over hundreds of hours of gameplay across the trilogy, and you have one very unhappy consumer of your art/product, Bioware.
Just one more voice asking for you to deliver the ending the trilogy deserved.
On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 15 2012 02:55
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#4327
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:08
Balgard
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I'm curious if people is worried only with the endings or with how most of ME3 is as a story and how unfolds...
Along the trilogy, correction, ME1 and ME2, you are presented with a very rich story, plenty of places to explore, given different options on where to go next and for the most practical effect, you are given the means to decide how (in which order) the story goes.
In Mass Effect, you have Feros, Noveria and Liara's Dig Site to choose where to go first and afterwards they give you Virmire as an extra choice, so if you want to pick up Liara last or first, it is completely up to you, if you want to freeze yourself first or even if you want to take Liara there or not will have a different reaction afterwards.
In Mass Effect 2, you have different characters you have to recruit in order to help you with your assignments and after some important events, you're given some more, again, you have the means to decide where to go first and how your game and story goes.
In Mass Effect 3... Well, you have no choice at all, you aren't given an option how you want the story to unfold, where to go first, from beginning to end it is just a one way narration of events in which you have little to no say in what happens or in which order.
Yeah, you have a couple, yes, two, options of somewhat "meaningful" context in what happens during this narration (or along the way if you prefer) but that have no impact whatsoever in the events as a whole.
It almost felt like it was an extended length action-adventure game instead of a RPG game (30 hours with all the side quests, bells and whistles included), the important RPG features from ME1 and ME2 (dialog options, paragon-renegade choice and some events) in this one, Mass Effect 3, are cosmetic, it doesn't really matter if you broke for Q-Geths or T-K's or even if you make all the races in the galaxy "evolve" in a new DNA, they still think the same, have the same dialog, behave the same way and have human-like silhouettes.
It even doesn't matter if you played mostly Paragon or Renegade, you can choose both dialogs anyways against TIM, my game was around 95-96% Paragon, 4-5% Renegade and I could still choose the Renegade options, why?
So what was the point of the hundred hours, choices and dialogs you chose in the first two games if they will have little to no impact whatsoever during the story and in the end? It all goes down to a number, as long as you reach that number it didn't matter if you allied everyone or not or if you chose to be an exemplar of virtue and goodness (Paragon) or the representation of badass-ness (Renegade).
In the end, ME1 and ME2 felt your character was somewhat unique and different from half the world, you had the chance of replay the game, take different options, go to places in a different order or way and you were able to experiment, even if did or did not affect any outcome, YOU (as a player) had the chance to decide where you go and what would happen in the end, in ME3, it's just one straight line to the oblivion of the galaxy.
I feel that the replayability died... Is it just me?
Edit: Eternalsteelfan's topic here pretty much nailed it, +1 on his post.
Along the trilogy, correction, ME1 and ME2, you are presented with a very rich story, plenty of places to explore, given different options on where to go next and for the most practical effect, you are given the means to decide how (in which order) the story goes.
In Mass Effect, you have Feros, Noveria and Liara's Dig Site to choose where to go first and afterwards they give you Virmire as an extra choice, so if you want to pick up Liara last or first, it is completely up to you, if you want to freeze yourself first or even if you want to take Liara there or not will have a different reaction afterwards.
In Mass Effect 2, you have different characters you have to recruit in order to help you with your assignments and after some important events, you're given some more, again, you have the means to decide where to go first and how your game and story goes.
In Mass Effect 3... Well, you have no choice at all, you aren't given an option how you want the story to unfold, where to go first, from beginning to end it is just a one way narration of events in which you have little to no say in what happens or in which order.
Yeah, you have a couple, yes, two, options of somewhat "meaningful" context in what happens during this narration (or along the way if you prefer) but that have no impact whatsoever in the events as a whole.
It almost felt like it was an extended length action-adventure game instead of a RPG game (30 hours with all the side quests, bells and whistles included), the important RPG features from ME1 and ME2 (dialog options, paragon-renegade choice and some events) in this one, Mass Effect 3, are cosmetic, it doesn't really matter if you broke for Q-Geths or T-K's or even if you make all the races in the galaxy "evolve" in a new DNA, they still think the same, have the same dialog, behave the same way and have human-like silhouettes.
It even doesn't matter if you played mostly Paragon or Renegade, you can choose both dialogs anyways against TIM, my game was around 95-96% Paragon, 4-5% Renegade and I could still choose the Renegade options, why?
So what was the point of the hundred hours, choices and dialogs you chose in the first two games if they will have little to no impact whatsoever during the story and in the end? It all goes down to a number, as long as you reach that number it didn't matter if you allied everyone or not or if you chose to be an exemplar of virtue and goodness (Paragon) or the representation of badass-ness (Renegade).
In the end, ME1 and ME2 felt your character was somewhat unique and different from half the world, you had the chance of replay the game, take different options, go to places in a different order or way and you were able to experiment, even if did or did not affect any outcome, YOU (as a player) had the chance to decide where you go and what would happen in the end, in ME3, it's just one straight line to the oblivion of the galaxy.
I feel that the replayability died... Is it just me?
Edit: Eternalsteelfan's topic here pretty much nailed it, +1 on his post.
#4328
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:08
Pandora
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Lili_oups wrote...
Personaly....**** Liara ok she might be cool for many but not for me... way too much monotone voice....
Why force me see her face everytime i finish this game???
where is my LI face? the crew that u know would DIE for you??
like garrus,tali,Wrex,ash and many others...but no...just liara...bioware praised too much her character
Im ok with joker and anderson these 2 characters OWNS
Are you kidding me??
Ashley was the most useless romance option ever. She had the character of a rock. Shepard you're part of Cerberus. Get away from me! Blah! Blah! How annoying is that? Thank god they fixed her eyes from ME2. They were definitely cocked.
I totally agree I did love Anderson. RIP Admiral.
#4329
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:09
Butane9000
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Hrm my favorite moments?
Tuchanka Reaper battle with Wrex commentary.
Garrus citadel conversation (skeet shooting for the win)
Helping the Geth and the Quarians.
Jack having to stop swearing.
Rannoch reaper showdown.
Geth Spitfire. enough said.
Missions that used the flashlight. God you have no idea how awesome the atmosphere was. Seriously good job on those parts.
Space walking over to the Geth dreadnought.
Killing Kai Leng. Seriously that was amazing.
Thane, Mordin and Legions deaths (Paragon) these were amazingly well written fantastic job.
Drunken Tali'Zorah vas Normandy
Urdnot Wrex's speech to the Krogan on earth before the final showdown.
Dat space battle (both the Quarian vs Geth and Allied Fleet vs Reapers)
Varied play styles throughout the game (using the transport shuttles gun to cover the Quarian admiral? Entering the Geth matrix? pure win.)
Javik and his hilariously hostile attitude towards everyone.
All the little e-mails throughout the game letting you know the outcome of your decisions.
Jokers jokes. One of the more memorable was him making a crack at Liara bouncing when she meets Javik.
The Tali and Garrus scene near the end of the game in either form (either romanced Tali/Garrus or not) both are excellent scenes.
The various bits throughout the game where you reaffirm your friendship and camaraderie with your crew. These were great and touching moments.
Tuchanka Reaper battle with Wrex commentary.
Garrus citadel conversation (skeet shooting for the win)
Helping the Geth and the Quarians.
Jack having to stop swearing.
Rannoch reaper showdown.
Geth Spitfire. enough said.
Missions that used the flashlight. God you have no idea how awesome the atmosphere was. Seriously good job on those parts.
Space walking over to the Geth dreadnought.
Killing Kai Leng. Seriously that was amazing.
Thane, Mordin and Legions deaths (Paragon) these were amazingly well written fantastic job.
Drunken Tali'Zorah vas Normandy
Urdnot Wrex's speech to the Krogan on earth before the final showdown.
Dat space battle (both the Quarian vs Geth and Allied Fleet vs Reapers)
Varied play styles throughout the game (using the transport shuttles gun to cover the Quarian admiral? Entering the Geth matrix? pure win.)
Javik and his hilariously hostile attitude towards everyone.
All the little e-mails throughout the game letting you know the outcome of your decisions.
Jokers jokes. One of the more memorable was him making a crack at Liara bouncing when she meets Javik.
The Tali and Garrus scene near the end of the game in either form (either romanced Tali/Garrus or not) both are excellent scenes.
The various bits throughout the game where you reaffirm your friendship and camaraderie with your crew. These were great and touching moments.
#4330
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:10
SuperVulcan
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I can't say I had a favorite moment. I have very strong feelings for this game; and picking a favorite moment is like picking my favorite videogame. Some of my favorite moments include shooting the bottles on the Citadel with Garrus, and rekindling Shepard and Ashley's romance that started in the first Mass Effect. I am also really happy that Shepard is able to mention Kaidan. Kaidan was one of my favorite squadmates and I was really sad when he died on Virmire.
#4331
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:11
jcmccorm
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At first, when I read the subject, I thought it was a shocking admission of guilt. As in "The 3 endings for Mass Effect." Then I realized it was about "the endings to Mass Effect 3" and was further saddened.
#4332
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:12
Asef Dimakiir
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(Probably going to get some hate from this, particularly since I don't post much buut....)
I would really consider checking out the indoctrination theory. I've always wanted to get a first hand look at what experiencing indoctrination would be like through Shepard's eyes, especially considering how he's been around reaper artifacts and reapers longer than anyone. It's odd that he's been completely unaffected up 'til now. If that really ends up being the case, I have a large respect for bioware for attempting something unique and crazy rather than a ride off into the sunset happy and flowers. I don't think this is the end. I have a feeling after this Shepard will wake up which will probably extended by a DLC (hopefully cheap or free). Nevertheless, I have faith in bioware that they do put alot of passion and thought into their game. I find it hard to believe that the entire ME3 game is so awesome and full of character just to suddenly have such odd and abrupt things happen at the very end. Reading up on the indoctrination theory, things begin to make -alot- of sense. (Particularly since the child's 3D model asset is -named- harbinger.)
Harbinger's had a weird obsession with possessing Shepard for a long time now. It seems likely to me he'd try to indoctrinate and control him at this point (choosing the control reapers option is more than likely allowing Harbinger to control Shepard, alot of things are mirrored at the very end of the game, parallels to ME1 in particular. TIM's suicide, the giant beam of light (illos), the god VI (somewhat similar to Vigil, though that's a bit of a longshot.). The fact that Shepard is so...compliant to everything the child is telling him. To me it seems like a first hand experience of what indoctrination is like. You're being convinced that compromise is the best option. Just like Saren. Just like TIM. You're given three options because they are limited for a reason. Indoctrination makes you feel hopeless and set in your path. There is no resistance, there's only compromise. -Unless- you have the will and conviction to see through it. As for what happens afterwards -- his crew and joker ending up in a paradise planet, the squadmates that were with you suddenly oddly there? Its more than likely a comfort. Wishful thinking on Shepard's part -- consider how Mordin and Garrus talk about going somewhere tropical and retiring. This may be Harbinger 'rewarding' him for his compliance or just him hallucinating as a coping mechanism -- makes more sense to me than them just poofing on the normandy. If this is the ending, I love it. It shows that Shepard really is human, he's not some sort of indoctrination/reaper-resistant messiah being. It shows that the journey he went through, all the pain, all the no-win odds he pushed through were amazing feats -- but even he is human and vulnerable.
*Cough* Anyways. Think about it besides immediately raging. You might be surprised.
Thanks for reading my long-winded rant/counter-argument and thank you Bioware for the characters and the adventure. Hell, even the interesting ballsy ending (if that's the case.) I look forward to possibly seeing the DLC aftermath (hopefully) that'll bring us some closure.
EDIT: Just thought I'd add links to said theory. Well compiled by the community. Pretty awesome. Enjoy.
http://social.biowar...index/9727423/1
http://w11.zetaboard...opic/7688087/1/
I would really consider checking out the indoctrination theory. I've always wanted to get a first hand look at what experiencing indoctrination would be like through Shepard's eyes, especially considering how he's been around reaper artifacts and reapers longer than anyone. It's odd that he's been completely unaffected up 'til now. If that really ends up being the case, I have a large respect for bioware for attempting something unique and crazy rather than a ride off into the sunset happy and flowers. I don't think this is the end. I have a feeling after this Shepard will wake up which will probably extended by a DLC (hopefully cheap or free). Nevertheless, I have faith in bioware that they do put alot of passion and thought into their game. I find it hard to believe that the entire ME3 game is so awesome and full of character just to suddenly have such odd and abrupt things happen at the very end. Reading up on the indoctrination theory, things begin to make -alot- of sense. (Particularly since the child's 3D model asset is -named- harbinger.)
Harbinger's had a weird obsession with possessing Shepard for a long time now. It seems likely to me he'd try to indoctrinate and control him at this point (choosing the control reapers option is more than likely allowing Harbinger to control Shepard, alot of things are mirrored at the very end of the game, parallels to ME1 in particular. TIM's suicide, the giant beam of light (illos), the god VI (somewhat similar to Vigil, though that's a bit of a longshot.). The fact that Shepard is so...compliant to everything the child is telling him. To me it seems like a first hand experience of what indoctrination is like. You're being convinced that compromise is the best option. Just like Saren. Just like TIM. You're given three options because they are limited for a reason. Indoctrination makes you feel hopeless and set in your path. There is no resistance, there's only compromise. -Unless- you have the will and conviction to see through it. As for what happens afterwards -- his crew and joker ending up in a paradise planet, the squadmates that were with you suddenly oddly there? Its more than likely a comfort. Wishful thinking on Shepard's part -- consider how Mordin and Garrus talk about going somewhere tropical and retiring. This may be Harbinger 'rewarding' him for his compliance or just him hallucinating as a coping mechanism -- makes more sense to me than them just poofing on the normandy. If this is the ending, I love it. It shows that Shepard really is human, he's not some sort of indoctrination/reaper-resistant messiah being. It shows that the journey he went through, all the pain, all the no-win odds he pushed through were amazing feats -- but even he is human and vulnerable.
*Cough* Anyways. Think about it besides immediately raging. You might be surprised.
Thanks for reading my long-winded rant/counter-argument and thank you Bioware for the characters and the adventure. Hell, even the interesting ballsy ending (if that's the case.) I look forward to possibly seeing the DLC aftermath (hopefully) that'll bring us some closure.
EDIT: Just thought I'd add links to said theory. Well compiled by the community. Pretty awesome. Enjoy.
http://social.biowar...index/9727423/1
http://w11.zetaboard...opic/7688087/1/
Modifié par Asef Dimakiir, 16 mars 2012 - 09:17 .
#4333
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:12
Trakadon
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I wanna know who and why the scrbbed the endi9ng where you fight TIM after he turns into a reaper monster. I get it that TIM was more into the whole "I'm smarter then everyone" bit but That didn't stop Sovereign from taking control of Saren's body and turning him into a monster. I think that would have deen a better ending then the other 3 we were given.Chris Priestly wrote
#4334
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:14
RedShft
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Overall, I thought ME3 was a great game. I loved the story, the pacing was great and the combat was fun. Some of the more memorable parts were on Tuchanka with Mordin, Thane, Ashley in the beginning, I could really go on. The whole atmosphere of hopelessness and a bleak chance of survivial was very immersive and well done.
My critique of the ending is this:
I did everything I could, peace between quarians and geth, high EMS score, and as many of the collect object missions I could tolerate and then when I get to the ultimate decision at the end, I am faced with three options. When the game starts introducing these options, I start trying to weigh which one I prefer, but while doing that it's hard to keep up with the other options available.
In the end what happened was, I got a vague idea of what the three options were, but there wasn't any VISUAL indication, that going left would result in this, middle would be that, and right would be the other thing. Due to this, I sat there and had to GUESS which decision I wanted to make. What's worse, is that when I got far enough on the path, the game seemingly took CONTROL over, and I couldn't move back.
I tried to talk to the VI kid or w/e he was, but i didn't think there was an option to do that after the first conversation.
After I choose the left option, due to a guess, I still didn't exactly know what happend. The reapers flew away, shepard died (im not sure why), brief celebration of the allied forces when the reapers fly away, mass effect relays get destroyed (still not sure why), and then the resulting explosion causes the normandy to crash.
Past this, I'm not sure what I did. The only good thing I could see was that the reapers left. However, all of the mass effect relays were destroyed, which is obviously quite bad.
There also wasn't any epilogue that helped clear up what exactly happened.
Something akin to the ending in DA:O would suffice.
My critique of the ending is this:
I did everything I could, peace between quarians and geth, high EMS score, and as many of the collect object missions I could tolerate and then when I get to the ultimate decision at the end, I am faced with three options. When the game starts introducing these options, I start trying to weigh which one I prefer, but while doing that it's hard to keep up with the other options available.
In the end what happened was, I got a vague idea of what the three options were, but there wasn't any VISUAL indication, that going left would result in this, middle would be that, and right would be the other thing. Due to this, I sat there and had to GUESS which decision I wanted to make. What's worse, is that when I got far enough on the path, the game seemingly took CONTROL over, and I couldn't move back.
I tried to talk to the VI kid or w/e he was, but i didn't think there was an option to do that after the first conversation.
After I choose the left option, due to a guess, I still didn't exactly know what happend. The reapers flew away, shepard died (im not sure why), brief celebration of the allied forces when the reapers fly away, mass effect relays get destroyed (still not sure why), and then the resulting explosion causes the normandy to crash.
Past this, I'm not sure what I did. The only good thing I could see was that the reapers left. However, all of the mass effect relays were destroyed, which is obviously quite bad.
There also wasn't any epilogue that helped clear up what exactly happened.
Something akin to the ending in DA:O would suffice.
#4335
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:14
BWGungan
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grim_reaper_13 wrote...
If you went renegade and killed her then the Reapers make a new queen somehow.BWGungan wrote...
Archonsg wrote...
XSarenXArteriusX wrote...
LordBeburos wrote...
Figured I would post my two cents. Had to to get someone to tell me how I could post in here because I've never been concerned with it before.
I obtained no resolution from the ending. In particular I was hoping to find out some history on the Reapers but that hope was coupled with the assumption that other things would be resolved and that would be extra. I want to see the results of my actions and it upset me enough that Anderson was no longer a councilor and the Rachni Queen was useless. I want some answers.
the rachni queen was useless, half tempted to let her melt next time.... oh wait ha! there probably wont be a next time
Does not make a difference.
Reapers STILL found a "random" queen and made her a Techno Broodmother.
But at least that is still plausible.
Blowin up Mass Relays, (space magic!) ignores one of my favorite lines from the series.
"Sir Issac Newton is the deadliest SOB in space."
Physics becomes space magic where power and engery (not even physical mass mind you like in Arrival, just pure energy) is able to rip a structure that can survive a Super Nova undamaged apart ...without any thermal / energy transfer into the system it inhibits ...well now.
Why not just put in pink unicorns and He-Man going "I HAVE GOT THE POWER!!!"
I think you misunderstood that side quest. The Reapers didn't find another random queen and made her a techno-broodmother.
That queen is the same one you saved in the first game, whom they lured from hiding by indoctrinating her children.
Ok, well, that's just a bit weird then.
#4336
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:15
Dominus
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The second playthrough of it when I realized(at least from my point of view) what the writing team had really done with the ending. The first playthrough for the ending was kind of an "alright, that was interesting..." reaction. But as a previous thread pointed out, you're essentially indoctrinating both Shepard and the Mass Effect 3 audience without them initially realizing it. It's an intentional NGE ending.What was your favorite moment?
Reading all of the red herrings added into the ending was quite an eye-opener. So where does this leave things? Likely ME's equivalent of End of Evangelion in the somewhat near-future(as in many months from now). I'd assume the moment right after the indoctrination has 'finished', whenever/wherever that may be.
I see what you did there, Mac.
#4337
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:15
mjh417
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Riddic wrote...
This is from another thread and should be acknowledged here. I am not the OP
Whether or not you enjoyed the conclusion to Mass Effect 3 (personally I feel
it tarnished an otherwise masterful series) please take a look at the
pre-release quotes below from websites and interviews with the game's
developers, writers and producers.
Does all that talk of meaningful player choice, multiple significantly
different endings and closure for the characters and series not seem,
at the very least, strange?
I believe Bioware can be legitimately accused of, at best, fudging the
truth if not outright deceit given the inconsistency between notions
of choice, closure etc. expressed before the game was released and
the ending as it currently stands.
In my opinion Bioware produced a badly written, ill-conceived shambles
of an ending riddled with plot holes and logical inconsistencies but
even if you loved the final moments of this great game do you really
think what was stated in the interviews below has been proved true?
Maybe Walters, Gamble, Hudson et al will be proved right when a decent
ending is released via (presumably free) DLC that explains the
original ending was just some sort of hallucination/indoctrination.
I'm not holding my breath waiting for that though.
Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”
THIS^
Abisco wrote...
Hey guys,
So Geoff Keighley (the guy who is the host of Spike Tv's GTTV) released an iPad app called Mass Effect 3: The Final Hours (which you can find here: http://t.co/6GvlZqQg).
Here's the official website: ME3 The Final Hours
It supposedly has insider information on scrapped parts of the game, interviews with bioware staff over some of the moments in the game, and never before seen art work (which was also scrapped). I just bought the app and hope to update you guys later on, with any interesting news from the app.
Also a Windows/Mac version will be out later, presumably through steam (its the same as the final hours for portal 2).
The cost is $2.99
Interesting Quotes: (Please note, some of these I'm transcribing from Video's. I'm trying to be as accurate as possible. Will try rewatching the videos later and updating then.)Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
"Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"Casey on after Mass Effect 3
"Whatever we do would likely happen before or during the events of Mass Effect 3, not after"On delaying the game
In march 2011, he also faced a roomful of Mass Effect developers who expressed concern about hitting the promised holiday release date... New release date set for March 2012. After much deliberation, the CAT mission (or rather, the Prothean mission) had to be removed from the set of tasks. The missions would later be completed as post-release content"Casey on the End Boss
'We had the final fight with the Illusive man in the game, but it just felt very Video Gamey. It didnt fit in with the themes. And really, is there a point of the end boss if only for the sake of an end boss?'
The article also states 'Although art was created for this sequence, it was ultimately dropped because it felt too predictable to end the series on a massive boss battle.'On Tali's Face
We eventually decided that she gives you a memento of her pictures, but the team was throwing around a lot of pictures and designs until we decided on something and said "Yup, that's her".On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'
In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up until the end of 2011. Martin sheen's voice-over session for the illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.
And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).
Deleted Scenes Videos:
- Liara and Garrus are running behind sheppard in the run for the conduit. Garrus falls over and Liara tries to pick him up. As he gets up, the two run and are hit by a laser as sheppard watches on without hope. In the final version (which is shown beside the deleted scenes video.) the body of your team mates are on the floor dead instead.
+ THIS^ =...
BIOWARE ARE LIARS!!!! Im so glad this app was made an is actively exposing you for your bulls**t. I can't wait for this offical response. I will not be angry but I will roll on the floor laughing my butt off if you try to defend your garbage ending in the wake of this exposure. Give the fans what they want, because as this proves... YES WE DO KNOW BETTER
#4338
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:16
VvAndromedavV
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Barneyk wrote...
The discussion about the endings seem infected to me.
The endings have a lot of problems, no doubt about it.
But the discussion about it has become infected in a way that makes it very hard for people who wanna talk about it in a more positive light to get any room.
And the infected discussion just seem to make people who come to share their experience feel worse.
Barneyk-Commander. There is a vulnerable spot further along the infected discussion. You must target this spot to keep the infected discussion from self-replicating.
Modifié par VvAndromedavV, 16 mars 2012 - 09:18 .
#4339
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:17
aspen2007
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- 4 messages
I love Mass Effect 1, I love Mass Effect 2 and I Love Mass Effect 3
but I was Very Disappointed by the Endings on Mass Effect 3 like many others. So what I would like to suggest is a fourth ending as a DLC.( I am Very happy to pay for the DLC as it would unfair on the Developers to give it away for free after all their hard work.)
The fourth option should be that Shepard turns around and walks away from the boy thus causing a paradox for the Catalyst. Thus opening a new timeline and the reapers disappear into another parallel universe. I want my Shepard to live and return to his surviving friends. I would like a happy ending were Shepard returns home to his chosen love abroad the Normandy as it passes through a Mass Relay to the Citadel. The Crucible could be a giant fusebox saving the Citadel and the Mass Relays.
I know there are holes in my theory but in a world full of doom and Gloom, we need more happy endings. just my Opinion But Thank you Bioware for MASS EFFECT :-)
By the way all this fan disappointment will attract interest outside the gaming world and hopefully generate new interest for the game and more sales.
#4340
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:19
Wraith8957
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- 36 messages
If your listening then give us a straight answer instead of saying your listening. It's been 10 days since the game out. For about a week we've been telling you what you did was wrong. You need to fix this now. Not in a month, not in a week but now. You need to own up, assure us you will include a fix for this asap within a reasonable time where you were going to flood us with the next DLC. Because I can assure you all I will not be buying any downloadable content unless it includes a damn fix for this garbage you peddled. I did not play these games dozens of times having multiple perfected files to see every damn ending, to have that goal pulled away from me with an ending, yes 1 ending because a change in colors does not count for a damn alternative ending. I have 6 files starting from ME1, 1 for each class to play up to ME3. Seriously Bioware fix this.
#4341
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:20
thatdude90210
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Or this quote that describes the indoctrination theory "When the player has to ways to have the ending be less than crushing, it’s not clever – it’s maddening."Lichtgestaltt wrote...
Wonderfully put into words how I felt.
Also I totally agree with this already posted link:
pixelatedgeek.com/2012/03/mass-effect-iii-snatching-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/
" It’s a special level of disappointment to have a masterpiece shredded at the last minute."
Modifié par thatdude90210, 16 mars 2012 - 09:21 .
#4342
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:20
xaurabh123
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- Members
- 51 messages
[quote]Karanduar wrote...
[quote]TheMerchantMan wrote...
Ah, finally. I've been stalking the forums for the last two days waiting for the ability to post.
Anyways. Thank you Mr. Priestly for at least letting us know you are listening about the ending, it worries me, of course, because I would prefer you were doing something, or at least keeping something back, whereas listening seems to just prove that you weren't prepared for this, and I had hoped Bioware was better than that.
The problem with asking "what we enjoyed" before the end, is that the end has for all extensive purposes made the rest of the series unenjoyable. All the good we have done is ultimately futile in all of the possible end games. That hurts, and it means I can't revisit them.
I think perhaps the moment with the strongest impact on me, was the death of Legion. His act of messanic sacrifice to bring his people full sentience was touching in itself but when combined with his final question to Tali, and her answer "The answer is yes.". I was moved, moved more deeply than I have ever been before, it was cathartic and meaningful. I stood up and clapped in admiration, fought tears because it was simply beautiful.
I felt the same way when Mordin sacrificed himself for the good of the Krogans, while he hummed that silly song of his, bravely facing death to right his wrongs. It was conflicting, it was heart-wrenching, it made me feel as though I was there, that I wanted my shepard to go up and save him, but I knew I couldn't, he couldn't, It made me feel like I was truly inside the world.
But because of the ending you gave us. You have robbed these moments of their meaning. This is true regardless of what we ultimately choose.
If we choose the blue ending, which if I have any trust in your writer's abilities, I must imagine was a trap (though not necessarily the indoctrtination theory I'm sure you've heard much about), because the cognitive dissonance of Shepard when he is told about it, after just arguing with TIM that control was too risky is too maddeningly unsensical otherwise. And thus Legion and all other synthetics like him will be destroyed anyways.
If we choose the green, then it renders his sacrifice, as well as Mordin's sacrfice completely unnecessary, you turn two of the most moving moments in the game into things that are painful to watch afterwards, because all I want to say is "No, you don't need to, no there is another way" and that is all supposing that the Synthesis ending is indeed good. To me it sounds exactly like the drivel we heard from Saren, a further indictment towards my theory that the final moments of the game, were if not a dream, most certainly a trick.
Finally, if we choose the red, it destroys all the Geth and AI , rendering his sacrifice just as moot.
And even if someone how there were one, say the Blue in which Legion's sacfice could indeed have meant something, it is still meaningless because the Mass Relays are destroyed. The one thing that made this series what it was, the single most identifiable feature is destroyed, and yes, that makes sense for one of the endings, it's powerful and emotional, but when it is true of all the endings, it means that no matter what the sacrifices of Mordin, Legion, Thane, and Ashley. Indeed all of their sacrifices meant nothing, because humanity and the rest of the galaxy's races are a best sent back to the dark ages and at worst destroyed utterly.
The geth will not survive the end, the quarians will not survive the end, humanity does not survive the end, the turians do not survive the end. Not with any semblece of what you've fought for.
What's worse is that, supposing you meant for this to happen, supposing this end really was exactly what you intended to create, a dark and grim afterlook, one that culiminates not in joy but in a gut-wrenching sorrow. Then you were so close to creating it, but instead through the way you culiminated the final scene with the normandy and the Stargazer epilogue.
You missed the oppurtunity to make a haunting, dark, but ultimately inspirational ending. If you had simply used your discarded Chekov's Gun. Liaria's time capsule. No matter how you played, Liara introduces this time capsule. No?
If you had wished for a no-win scenario, you could have discarded the entire end and simply let Shepard die. Humanity lose. The entire galaxy die. But that time capsule, would have made the ending brilliant. Brought the epilogue from tacked on and confusing to meaningful and inspiring. Life will go on, this will be the final cycle.
Instead, we get a message that seems to say to us, "everything you did" is meaningless, and that hurts.
Which reminds me, Liara was always my favourite character but where you took her in Mass Effect 3 brought her above and beyond, she developed in ways I never expected, I can truly say by the end of the game, I wished as though she were real. The moments like the time capsule, and of Thessia, and comforting her, these sorts of things gave me absolute chills.
But where do I go from here? I won't accept, nay can't accept that she is off on some other planet where she will never hear from me, of me, or at least of my death. Her story concluding with death in some far-flung planet, never having known that I saved the galaxy. Indeed, that is something overlooked on the forums, there is absolutely no way that without FTL communication, Joker, or any of the Normandy crew, indeed the entire galaxy would know that the Reapers had been defeated. Any world that hasn't been hit already will simply have to writhe in panic, the ones that have, at best know something has happened and at worst think they are the last organic life in the galaxy.
That's mind-numbingly bad. That invalidates the epilogue's ending even with the most cheery disposition. That reaches far beyond simple plot hole and into unforgivable mistake.
Anyways. Sorry, I'm still sore Bioware. But know this.
I'm not angry because I think you have failed, no. Mass Effect 3 is a triumph, as angry as I am about the ending, I reccomend any fan of the series buys the game, it is a masterpiece. It is a symphony, a beautiful end to the most engaging world I have ever been a part of, I am disappointed because that triumph is spoiled in the very last moments of the game, by something which throws away all that we cared for, all that you had done so well, all that truly made the series great. In favour of something that felt as though, and as the Ipad app now proves was, the result of hasty comprimise, misunderstanding and rushing.
Rather than the send-off we receive, we get mixed messages, mixed signals, convulted story elements and deus ex machina, where we already had a deus ex machina, the catalyst was already a god from the machine in the story, to make it literal seems like meta-humour gone terribly wrong.
[/quote]
Quoting this as well in the off chance the important folks at Bioware read it.
[/quote]
Nothing to add...
[/quote]
[quote]TheMerchantMan wrote...
Ah, finally. I've been stalking the forums for the last two days waiting for the ability to post.
Anyways. Thank you Mr. Priestly for at least letting us know you are listening about the ending, it worries me, of course, because I would prefer you were doing something, or at least keeping something back, whereas listening seems to just prove that you weren't prepared for this, and I had hoped Bioware was better than that.
The problem with asking "what we enjoyed" before the end, is that the end has for all extensive purposes made the rest of the series unenjoyable. All the good we have done is ultimately futile in all of the possible end games. That hurts, and it means I can't revisit them.
I think perhaps the moment with the strongest impact on me, was the death of Legion. His act of messanic sacrifice to bring his people full sentience was touching in itself but when combined with his final question to Tali, and her answer "The answer is yes.". I was moved, moved more deeply than I have ever been before, it was cathartic and meaningful. I stood up and clapped in admiration, fought tears because it was simply beautiful.
I felt the same way when Mordin sacrificed himself for the good of the Krogans, while he hummed that silly song of his, bravely facing death to right his wrongs. It was conflicting, it was heart-wrenching, it made me feel as though I was there, that I wanted my shepard to go up and save him, but I knew I couldn't, he couldn't, It made me feel like I was truly inside the world.
But because of the ending you gave us. You have robbed these moments of their meaning. This is true regardless of what we ultimately choose.
If we choose the blue ending, which if I have any trust in your writer's abilities, I must imagine was a trap (though not necessarily the indoctrtination theory I'm sure you've heard much about), because the cognitive dissonance of Shepard when he is told about it, after just arguing with TIM that control was too risky is too maddeningly unsensical otherwise. And thus Legion and all other synthetics like him will be destroyed anyways.
If we choose the green, then it renders his sacrifice, as well as Mordin's sacrfice completely unnecessary, you turn two of the most moving moments in the game into things that are painful to watch afterwards, because all I want to say is "No, you don't need to, no there is another way" and that is all supposing that the Synthesis ending is indeed good. To me it sounds exactly like the drivel we heard from Saren, a further indictment towards my theory that the final moments of the game, were if not a dream, most certainly a trick.
Finally, if we choose the red, it destroys all the Geth and AI , rendering his sacrifice just as moot.
And even if someone how there were one, say the Blue in which Legion's sacfice could indeed have meant something, it is still meaningless because the Mass Relays are destroyed. The one thing that made this series what it was, the single most identifiable feature is destroyed, and yes, that makes sense for one of the endings, it's powerful and emotional, but when it is true of all the endings, it means that no matter what the sacrifices of Mordin, Legion, Thane, and Ashley. Indeed all of their sacrifices meant nothing, because humanity and the rest of the galaxy's races are a best sent back to the dark ages and at worst destroyed utterly.
The geth will not survive the end, the quarians will not survive the end, humanity does not survive the end, the turians do not survive the end. Not with any semblece of what you've fought for.
What's worse is that, supposing you meant for this to happen, supposing this end really was exactly what you intended to create, a dark and grim afterlook, one that culiminates not in joy but in a gut-wrenching sorrow. Then you were so close to creating it, but instead through the way you culiminated the final scene with the normandy and the Stargazer epilogue.
You missed the oppurtunity to make a haunting, dark, but ultimately inspirational ending. If you had simply used your discarded Chekov's Gun. Liaria's time capsule. No matter how you played, Liara introduces this time capsule. No?
If you had wished for a no-win scenario, you could have discarded the entire end and simply let Shepard die. Humanity lose. The entire galaxy die. But that time capsule, would have made the ending brilliant. Brought the epilogue from tacked on and confusing to meaningful and inspiring. Life will go on, this will be the final cycle.
Instead, we get a message that seems to say to us, "everything you did" is meaningless, and that hurts.
Which reminds me, Liara was always my favourite character but where you took her in Mass Effect 3 brought her above and beyond, she developed in ways I never expected, I can truly say by the end of the game, I wished as though she were real. The moments like the time capsule, and of Thessia, and comforting her, these sorts of things gave me absolute chills.
But where do I go from here? I won't accept, nay can't accept that she is off on some other planet where she will never hear from me, of me, or at least of my death. Her story concluding with death in some far-flung planet, never having known that I saved the galaxy. Indeed, that is something overlooked on the forums, there is absolutely no way that without FTL communication, Joker, or any of the Normandy crew, indeed the entire galaxy would know that the Reapers had been defeated. Any world that hasn't been hit already will simply have to writhe in panic, the ones that have, at best know something has happened and at worst think they are the last organic life in the galaxy.
That's mind-numbingly bad. That invalidates the epilogue's ending even with the most cheery disposition. That reaches far beyond simple plot hole and into unforgivable mistake.
Anyways. Sorry, I'm still sore Bioware. But know this.
I'm not angry because I think you have failed, no. Mass Effect 3 is a triumph, as angry as I am about the ending, I reccomend any fan of the series buys the game, it is a masterpiece. It is a symphony, a beautiful end to the most engaging world I have ever been a part of, I am disappointed because that triumph is spoiled in the very last moments of the game, by something which throws away all that we cared for, all that you had done so well, all that truly made the series great. In favour of something that felt as though, and as the Ipad app now proves was, the result of hasty comprimise, misunderstanding and rushing.
Rather than the send-off we receive, we get mixed messages, mixed signals, convulted story elements and deus ex machina, where we already had a deus ex machina, the catalyst was already a god from the machine in the story, to make it literal seems like meta-humour gone terribly wrong.
[/quote]
Quoting this as well in the off chance the important folks at Bioware read it.
[/quote]
Nothing to add...
[/quote]
#4343
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:22
Archie621
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- Members
- 5 messages
Just finished the game and I am quite disappointed, I'm left feeling confused, and asking myself what just happened...
and why it happened...
so yeah...I dont really know what to say
and why it happened...
so yeah...I dont really know what to say
#4344
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:23
JulienJaden
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- Members
- 313 messages
Balgard wrote...
I'm curious if people is worried only with the endings or with how most of ME3 is as a story and how unfolds...
Along the trilogy, correction, ME1 and ME2, you are presented with a very rich story, plenty of places to explore, given different options on where to go next and for the most practical effect, you are given the means to decide how (in which order) the story goes.
In Mass Effect, you have Feros, Noveria and Liara's Dig Site to choose where to go first and afterwards they give you Virmire as an extra choice, so if you want to pick up Liara last or first, it is completely up to you, if you want to freeze yourself first or even if you want to take Liara there or not will have a different reaction afterwards.
In Mass Effect 2, you have different characters you have to recruit in order to help you with your assignments and after some important events, you're given some more, again, you have the means to decide where to go first and how your game and story goes.
In Mass Effect 3... Well, you have no choice at all, you aren't given an option how you want the story to unfold, where to go first, from beginning to end it is just a one way narration of events in which you have little to no say in what happens or in which order.
Yeah, you have a couple, yes, two, options of somewhat "meaningful" context in what happens during this narration (or along the way if you prefer) but that have no impact whatsoever in the events as a whole.
It almost felt like it was an extended length action-adventure game instead of a RPG game (30 hours with all the side quests, bells and whistles included), the important RPG features from ME1 and ME2 (dialog options, paragon-renegade choice and some events) in this one, Mass Effect 3, are cosmetic, it doesn't really matter if you broke for Q-Geths or T-K's or even if you make all the races in the galaxy "evolve" in a new DNA, they still think the same, have the same dialog, behave the same way and have human-like silhouettes.
It even doesn't matter if you played mostly Paragon or Renegade, you can choose both dialogs anyways against TIM, my game was around 95-96% Paragon, 4-5% Renegade and I could still choose the Renegade options, why?
So what was the point of the hundred hours, choices and dialogs you chose in the first two games if they will have little to no impact whatsoever during the story and in the end? It all goes down to a number, as long as you reach that number it didn't matter if you allied everyone or not or if you chose to be an exemplar of virtue and goodness (Paragon) or the representation of badass-ness (Renegade).
In the end, ME1 and ME2 felt your character was somewhat unique and different from half the world, you had the chance of replay the game, take different options, go to places in a different order or way and you were able to experiment, even if did or did not affect any outcome, YOU (as a player) had the chance to decide where you go and what would happen in the end, in ME3, it's just one straight line to the oblivion of the galaxy.
I feel that the replayability died... Is it just me?
Edit: Eternalsteelfan's topic here pretty much nailed it, +1 on his post.
I agree. Also, the linked topic provides a very accurate analysis of the ending, the story and illustrates very well what seems to be wrong with it.
#4345
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:24
ArchStanton
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- Members
- 22 messages
Why the hell would we go through 100 hours of not speculating just to want to speculate til the end of time at the end? You outsmarted yourself with that one.
#4346
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:24
Damien Nightwind
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Just curious if anyone from Bioware has actually posted in this thread other than the first post? I wonder if they have any idea what "active listening" is, basically it's kind of like talking to someone who doesnt move, doesnt make any sounds or anything. You cant really tell they are listening at all. Well no responses from Bioware gives the same impression here, if they dont post on the thread after starting it then they can say they are listening all the want, doesnt mean it's true.
So Bioware staff, you may want to start putting in a few responses to show you are actually listening, and please dont just say you are waiting for more people to finish the game.
On an unrelated note, i'm completely shocked which option is recieving the most votes on this: social.bioware.com/868606/polls/29708/
So Bioware staff, you may want to start putting in a few responses to show you are actually listening, and please dont just say you are waiting for more people to finish the game.
On an unrelated note, i'm completely shocked which option is recieving the most votes on this: social.bioware.com/868606/polls/29708/
Modifié par Damien Nightwind, 16 mars 2012 - 09:36 .
#4347
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:24
amyjeanmachine
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I wrote a big post about this on my blog earlier, and in the hopes that Bioware will see it, I am going to paste it here, edited a little bit.
The tl;dr version is that as it is right now, I can't go back and play any Mass Effect games. I was looking forward to doing a paragon run of the trilogy right after I beat ME3, but it hurts too much to even think about replaying them now, because I know that despite what we were constantly told for 5 years, my decision do not matter. At all. The same bleak fate awaits Shepard no matter what I do. It's been false advertisement all along.
-------
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?”
— Michael Gamble, Mass Effect 3 producer
I have never been as emotionally affected by any other work of fiction as I have been by the Mass Effect trilogy. My Shepard — Laika, an Earthborn, Sole Survivor, Renegade Infiltrator — feels like a real person, like a very close friend. The world of Mass Effect feels more real to me than any other fictional universe ever has. I am incredibly thankful to Bioware for producing and creating such a beautiful work of art, for bringing to life wonderful characters who I will likely never forget.
I really want to make this point clear.
The 6 days I spent playing through Mass Effect 3, it was almost all I could think about. I dreamt about the Normandy crew every night, and Shepard’s pain was my pain as I watched her become tired and begin to slowly unravel under the pressure. After all, she is only human. No game has ever made me cry like Mass Effect 3. And I don’t mean, tears-in-my-eyes, I mean actually crying, with the shaking and snotty nose and having to stop to compose myself before I carried on with a new mission. I also believe that the writing and characterization got stronger with each game. Mass Effect 3 was gorgeously executed, up until the last 10 minutes. Then it lost me. It lost most of us.
And that is why these endings (the ending, really, as they are all mostly identical) are leaving such a bitter taste in my mouth. I simply cannot swallow them. I feel like the last 10 minutes utterly betrayed everything that Mass Effect was and replaced it with something unrecognizable. I feel such disquiet and after investing so much time and emotion into this story, I can’t end it and move on.
I want to make it clear that there is a big difference between a Good Ending, a Bad Ending, and a Happy Ending. A lot of press on this fan outcry of upset seems to be wrongly saying that “fans are angry because they wanted a more upbeat ending!” This is totally missing the point.
A Good Ending can still be sad. Hell, I even like heartwrenching endings. What makes an ending good is that it ties up most of the dangling plot threads (leaving some things open to interpretation is fine, if it is impactful) and leaves you feeling satisfied. In the case of a video game, there really needs to be adequate payoff for the amount of time you have invested in the game. Bleak endings work better in film than video games, I think, because of this.
A Bad Ending offers no such resolution or satisfaction, regardless of how happy or sad it might be. It may employ a deus ex machina to “resolve” the plot. It doesn’t mesh with the rest of the story, contradicts canon, and there isn’t enough payoff (say, a very short cutscene after 100+ hours of gameplay across three games). Characters act in a way that is inconsistent and unmotivated, and the whole thing ends up feeling contrived, cheap, and full of plotholes.
Which is just about exactly how the end of Mass Effect 3 pans out.
I was more or less prepared for Shepard to die. As badly as I wanted her to stop fighting for the first time in 30 years and settle down somewhere warm with Garrus, I knew a happy ending wasn’t likely. I was ready to sacrifice a lot for the Greater Good.
The game totally had me up until Shepard was blasted by the Reaper. Fighting through London, wave after wave of Reaper mobs, I was so caught up in it. Making that dash down to the Citadel beam, I was standing up out of my seat and I doubt I was breathing. Shepard is blasted. The screen goes white. I cannot believe what is happening. Shepard wakes up, scorched armor, the first thing I do is look around. Where are Garrus and Tali? All I want right now are Garrus and Tali. No one is anywhere to be seen, the radio says everyone is dead (how is my radio even working?)
Actually, the game still kind of had me there, as mortified as I was. I beamed up onto the Citadel and I was stunned to hear Anderson. Limping through the Citadel amongst the carnage and the silent Keeper going about its work was haunting. The Illusive man shows up out of nowhere, but I was willing to suspend disbelief.
The scene with Anderson and Shepard I enjoyed (by which I mean it caused me to sob grossly) and for a moment I thought, I don’t see what the big fuss about the endings is about. They’ve activated the Crucible. They will win. Shepard and Anderson will die here, tragically, but together. At this point I was just an emotional wreck. I figured it would be the end.
But the Crucible wasn’t working. True to herself, when she hears the news, Shepard, bleeding out and settling in to die, asks “what do you need me to do?” That’s my girl. (by the way, since you asked... that was my favourite part in the game). It even could have ended there. Shepard reaching towards the controls. Then black. Bleak, but a Kobayashi Maru is better than what we got. Mass Effect, for me, has always carried a theme of humanity’s insignificance in the galaxy, and while this is perhaps a bit nihilistic for a video game, at least it says something philosophically, which the current ending does not.
So, the foggy platform of doom lifts us to the deus ex machina and plotholes so huge you could pilot the Citadel straight through them. Shepard meets with the Catalyst/Citadel/StarChild/her manifestation of PTSD and is given three “choices” which are, in reality, three different flavours of “everything you did up to this point was meaningless; choose one of these ways to fail.”
In all endings, the cutscene that plays is exactly the same, save for the colour of the Space Magic that goes through the Mass Relays. Oh, and the Mass Relays? No matter what you do, they are destroyed, effectively ending galactic civilization as it is known. In other words, no matter what you “choose”, Bioware destroys the world they have created, violating established canon about how relays work in the process. This is the part that I cannot, cannot accept. What really broke my heart. More than Shepard dying. More than everyone else dying. How could they just destroy everything like that? That is not what Shepard fought for. I wanted to take Earth back. I wanted to save the galaxy.
And it poses a huge problem. All remaining fleets are stuck in the Sol system with limited resources, and all the species can’t even eat the same food. Colonies will die with no galactic support and resources. Shepard effectively causes a galactic dark age. The galaxy is doomed no matter what Shepard chooses.
You fail no matter what.
I think that is why I cannot get over this. It was truly all for nothing. Everyone Shepard inspired, every life she touched… it’s all gone.
The biggest problem with this ending, even if the narrative was okay for you, is that it totally surrendered everything the games had stood for. “Your choices matter,” we were told, again and again, only to find that they did not. My boyfriend and I had two totally different playthroughs. He was a paragon with a different background, he saved the council and the Rachni queen, he was unable to unite the Geth and Quarians. I made the opposite choices, was a total renegade. But our endings were exactly the same. He chose control and I chose synthesis, and I watched his ending play out identical to mine, save for the colour and the characters on the Jungle Planet at the end.
Honestly, forgetting everything else, this is just false advertising. There's a post back on page 166 listing all the things Bioware said about the endings that were completely false. THIS is why we are upset, Bioware. If you take nothing else from this, please understand at least that. You promised us something, and you gave us exactly the opposite.
Then there is the issue of that stupid scene with the Normandy. Joker is seen trying to make a jump through what is presumably the Sol Relay. Why did he leave the battle on Earth? Why is he fleeing to another system? We have no idea. The Normandy is swallowed up by whatever colour you chose and conveniently lands on some mysterious jungle planet that has breathable air for all species. Because Joker and some other crew (EDI and Garrus in mine) step out of the Normandy, seemingly pleased to be stranded on some planet. I don’t know how the crew got back on the Normandy after they were obliterated with the Reaper beam.
Following the credits is an even more contrived (and poorly acted) scene where some old man is telling a little boy about “The Shepard” who made life possible (or something, I don’t know, I was beyond help at that point). I can only assume they are on the jungle planet, and I don’t even want to attempt to figure out the convoluted logic that allowed a man, an AI and a Turian to populate a jungle planet. The whole thing felt very forced, low-quality and tacked-on, so I’m lead to believe that it was added as an afterthought when the writers ran out of time, had written themselves into a corner, and EA was pushing them.
That’s the only way I can make sense of how they botched the ending so badly. Because they are all fantastic writers. Everything leading up to the Catalyst was the strongest, most impactful writing I have ever seen from Bioware. The original ending was leaked, they felt pressure to change it, they didn’t want to delay the game yet again because that’s how EA is, and they had to slap something together. It sucks, but it means I don’t have to lose any faith in them. It hurts less this way. I have so much respect for you development team, and I so, so badly don't want to stop respecting you. But... as things look now, I'm going to have to.
I think we all feel betrayed and mislead, most of all.
We know you are better than what you gave us.
The tl;dr version is that as it is right now, I can't go back and play any Mass Effect games. I was looking forward to doing a paragon run of the trilogy right after I beat ME3, but it hurts too much to even think about replaying them now, because I know that despite what we were constantly told for 5 years, my decision do not matter. At all. The same bleak fate awaits Shepard no matter what I do. It's been false advertisement all along.
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“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?”
— Michael Gamble, Mass Effect 3 producer
I have never been as emotionally affected by any other work of fiction as I have been by the Mass Effect trilogy. My Shepard — Laika, an Earthborn, Sole Survivor, Renegade Infiltrator — feels like a real person, like a very close friend. The world of Mass Effect feels more real to me than any other fictional universe ever has. I am incredibly thankful to Bioware for producing and creating such a beautiful work of art, for bringing to life wonderful characters who I will likely never forget.
I really want to make this point clear.
The 6 days I spent playing through Mass Effect 3, it was almost all I could think about. I dreamt about the Normandy crew every night, and Shepard’s pain was my pain as I watched her become tired and begin to slowly unravel under the pressure. After all, she is only human. No game has ever made me cry like Mass Effect 3. And I don’t mean, tears-in-my-eyes, I mean actually crying, with the shaking and snotty nose and having to stop to compose myself before I carried on with a new mission. I also believe that the writing and characterization got stronger with each game. Mass Effect 3 was gorgeously executed, up until the last 10 minutes. Then it lost me. It lost most of us.
And that is why these endings (the ending, really, as they are all mostly identical) are leaving such a bitter taste in my mouth. I simply cannot swallow them. I feel like the last 10 minutes utterly betrayed everything that Mass Effect was and replaced it with something unrecognizable. I feel such disquiet and after investing so much time and emotion into this story, I can’t end it and move on.
I want to make it clear that there is a big difference between a Good Ending, a Bad Ending, and a Happy Ending. A lot of press on this fan outcry of upset seems to be wrongly saying that “fans are angry because they wanted a more upbeat ending!” This is totally missing the point.
A Good Ending can still be sad. Hell, I even like heartwrenching endings. What makes an ending good is that it ties up most of the dangling plot threads (leaving some things open to interpretation is fine, if it is impactful) and leaves you feeling satisfied. In the case of a video game, there really needs to be adequate payoff for the amount of time you have invested in the game. Bleak endings work better in film than video games, I think, because of this.
A Bad Ending offers no such resolution or satisfaction, regardless of how happy or sad it might be. It may employ a deus ex machina to “resolve” the plot. It doesn’t mesh with the rest of the story, contradicts canon, and there isn’t enough payoff (say, a very short cutscene after 100+ hours of gameplay across three games). Characters act in a way that is inconsistent and unmotivated, and the whole thing ends up feeling contrived, cheap, and full of plotholes.
Which is just about exactly how the end of Mass Effect 3 pans out.
I was more or less prepared for Shepard to die. As badly as I wanted her to stop fighting for the first time in 30 years and settle down somewhere warm with Garrus, I knew a happy ending wasn’t likely. I was ready to sacrifice a lot for the Greater Good.
The game totally had me up until Shepard was blasted by the Reaper. Fighting through London, wave after wave of Reaper mobs, I was so caught up in it. Making that dash down to the Citadel beam, I was standing up out of my seat and I doubt I was breathing. Shepard is blasted. The screen goes white. I cannot believe what is happening. Shepard wakes up, scorched armor, the first thing I do is look around. Where are Garrus and Tali? All I want right now are Garrus and Tali. No one is anywhere to be seen, the radio says everyone is dead (how is my radio even working?)
Actually, the game still kind of had me there, as mortified as I was. I beamed up onto the Citadel and I was stunned to hear Anderson. Limping through the Citadel amongst the carnage and the silent Keeper going about its work was haunting. The Illusive man shows up out of nowhere, but I was willing to suspend disbelief.
The scene with Anderson and Shepard I enjoyed (by which I mean it caused me to sob grossly) and for a moment I thought, I don’t see what the big fuss about the endings is about. They’ve activated the Crucible. They will win. Shepard and Anderson will die here, tragically, but together. At this point I was just an emotional wreck. I figured it would be the end.
But the Crucible wasn’t working. True to herself, when she hears the news, Shepard, bleeding out and settling in to die, asks “what do you need me to do?” That’s my girl. (by the way, since you asked... that was my favourite part in the game). It even could have ended there. Shepard reaching towards the controls. Then black. Bleak, but a Kobayashi Maru is better than what we got. Mass Effect, for me, has always carried a theme of humanity’s insignificance in the galaxy, and while this is perhaps a bit nihilistic for a video game, at least it says something philosophically, which the current ending does not.
So, the foggy platform of doom lifts us to the deus ex machina and plotholes so huge you could pilot the Citadel straight through them. Shepard meets with the Catalyst/Citadel/StarChild/her manifestation of PTSD and is given three “choices” which are, in reality, three different flavours of “everything you did up to this point was meaningless; choose one of these ways to fail.”
In all endings, the cutscene that plays is exactly the same, save for the colour of the Space Magic that goes through the Mass Relays. Oh, and the Mass Relays? No matter what you do, they are destroyed, effectively ending galactic civilization as it is known. In other words, no matter what you “choose”, Bioware destroys the world they have created, violating established canon about how relays work in the process. This is the part that I cannot, cannot accept. What really broke my heart. More than Shepard dying. More than everyone else dying. How could they just destroy everything like that? That is not what Shepard fought for. I wanted to take Earth back. I wanted to save the galaxy.
And it poses a huge problem. All remaining fleets are stuck in the Sol system with limited resources, and all the species can’t even eat the same food. Colonies will die with no galactic support and resources. Shepard effectively causes a galactic dark age. The galaxy is doomed no matter what Shepard chooses.
You fail no matter what.
I think that is why I cannot get over this. It was truly all for nothing. Everyone Shepard inspired, every life she touched… it’s all gone.
The biggest problem with this ending, even if the narrative was okay for you, is that it totally surrendered everything the games had stood for. “Your choices matter,” we were told, again and again, only to find that they did not. My boyfriend and I had two totally different playthroughs. He was a paragon with a different background, he saved the council and the Rachni queen, he was unable to unite the Geth and Quarians. I made the opposite choices, was a total renegade. But our endings were exactly the same. He chose control and I chose synthesis, and I watched his ending play out identical to mine, save for the colour and the characters on the Jungle Planet at the end.
Honestly, forgetting everything else, this is just false advertising. There's a post back on page 166 listing all the things Bioware said about the endings that were completely false. THIS is why we are upset, Bioware. If you take nothing else from this, please understand at least that. You promised us something, and you gave us exactly the opposite.
Then there is the issue of that stupid scene with the Normandy. Joker is seen trying to make a jump through what is presumably the Sol Relay. Why did he leave the battle on Earth? Why is he fleeing to another system? We have no idea. The Normandy is swallowed up by whatever colour you chose and conveniently lands on some mysterious jungle planet that has breathable air for all species. Because Joker and some other crew (EDI and Garrus in mine) step out of the Normandy, seemingly pleased to be stranded on some planet. I don’t know how the crew got back on the Normandy after they were obliterated with the Reaper beam.
Following the credits is an even more contrived (and poorly acted) scene where some old man is telling a little boy about “The Shepard” who made life possible (or something, I don’t know, I was beyond help at that point). I can only assume they are on the jungle planet, and I don’t even want to attempt to figure out the convoluted logic that allowed a man, an AI and a Turian to populate a jungle planet. The whole thing felt very forced, low-quality and tacked-on, so I’m lead to believe that it was added as an afterthought when the writers ran out of time, had written themselves into a corner, and EA was pushing them.
That’s the only way I can make sense of how they botched the ending so badly. Because they are all fantastic writers. Everything leading up to the Catalyst was the strongest, most impactful writing I have ever seen from Bioware. The original ending was leaked, they felt pressure to change it, they didn’t want to delay the game yet again because that’s how EA is, and they had to slap something together. It sucks, but it means I don’t have to lose any faith in them. It hurts less this way. I have so much respect for you development team, and I so, so badly don't want to stop respecting you. But... as things look now, I'm going to have to.
I think we all feel betrayed and mislead, most of all.
We know you are better than what you gave us.
#4348
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:26
e2m2
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- Members
- 6 messages
I adored Mass Effect 3, but the ending was so awful that I actually have to keep reminding myself that the rest of it was better- the last 15 minutes overshadow everything else at the moment, and that makes me sad 
However, I would like to say that this was the first video game that managed to make me cry- I cried at Mordin's death, when I thought Grunt was dying fighting the corrupted Rachni, when I said goodbye to my LI... loved all of those parts and was so impressed that a game had finally made me engage on that level.
Unfortunately, the ending just left me feeling sad, but not in a good way. I'm all for heroic sacrifice and depressing endings to books, films, games, whatever, but only when they're done well. ME3 left me feeling so let down and just... disappointed. The hook at the very end telling us to buy DLC made me literally yell at the screen, I was so angry.
That said, I will buy any future DLC that fixes the ending. I'll be furious at having to do so, but I care too much about the characters now to leave it like this. More fool me, I guess.
However, I would like to say that this was the first video game that managed to make me cry- I cried at Mordin's death, when I thought Grunt was dying fighting the corrupted Rachni, when I said goodbye to my LI... loved all of those parts and was so impressed that a game had finally made me engage on that level.
Unfortunately, the ending just left me feeling sad, but not in a good way. I'm all for heroic sacrifice and depressing endings to books, films, games, whatever, but only when they're done well. ME3 left me feeling so let down and just... disappointed. The hook at the very end telling us to buy DLC made me literally yell at the screen, I was so angry.
That said, I will buy any future DLC that fixes the ending. I'll be furious at having to do so, but I care too much about the characters now to leave it like this. More fool me, I guess.
#4349
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:26
FOX216BC
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- Members
- 967 messages
The biggest problem with this ending is that the replay value is close to if not ZERO.
Compare that to ME and ME2 and you'll see.
Many people after finishing ME2 begain immediately the game from the start.
I even started a new game of ME2 because of the dlc's.
So all ME3 singleplayer dlc's that are released before this ending is set right (if they fix it that is) will not really matter. At least not as much as the previous ME games.
I will not give 10$ for mp dlc either.
Compare that to ME and ME2 and you'll see.
Many people after finishing ME2 begain immediately the game from the start.
I even started a new game of ME2 because of the dlc's.
So all ME3 singleplayer dlc's that are released before this ending is set right (if they fix it that is) will not really matter. At least not as much as the previous ME games.
I will not give 10$ for mp dlc either.
#4350
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:27
Bradagan
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- Members
- 37 messages
Thank you Bioware for what was (until it's ending) a truly great game filled with memorable, beautiful, touching, awe-inspiring moments.
I loved 100% of Mass Effect 1 and 2. I love 99% of Mass Effect 3... but that ending... those final moments, they just make me feel like the whole thing was ultimately pointless.
Up until the ending I fully intended to go back and replay all three games differently to see how different choices for a new Shepard would pan out... Now though, the ending makes me feel like there's no point in doing so. The end result will always be the same. (Albeit with different coloured explosions)
Who thought ending everyone's game in the exact same way, irregardless of whether you're paragon, renegade, how big your fleet is or which races you save / allow to become extinct / recruit would be a good idea?
It feels cheap.
It feels rushed.
It feels cookie cutter.
It feels like none of my actions throughout the series now count for anything.
It feels like this rich, varied and vibrant universe has been torn up and stomped on.
Please fix it.
What he said: ------->
I loved 100% of Mass Effect 1 and 2. I love 99% of Mass Effect 3... but that ending... those final moments, they just make me feel like the whole thing was ultimately pointless.
Up until the ending I fully intended to go back and replay all three games differently to see how different choices for a new Shepard would pan out... Now though, the ending makes me feel like there's no point in doing so. The end result will always be the same. (Albeit with different coloured explosions)
Who thought ending everyone's game in the exact same way, irregardless of whether you're paragon, renegade, how big your fleet is or which races you save / allow to become extinct / recruit would be a good idea?
It feels cheap.
It feels rushed.
It feels cookie cutter.
It feels like none of my actions throughout the series now count for anything.
It feels like this rich, varied and vibrant universe has been torn up and stomped on.
Please fix it.
What he said: ------->
Modifié par Bradagan, 16 mars 2012 - 09:29 .
