Ce sujet est fermé
Well BIOWARE what are your plans. someone actually files a complaint with the FTC and BBB...wow. these complaints aren't going anywhere of course, but the fact that they happened still should be looked into. Personally I'm fine with the endings as they are personally i am convinced that paid DLC will explain in a more conventional matter what happened and if BIOWARE is not going to do that then kudos to you the ME franchise is one of the best game series ever. The endings don't deliver what everyone wants but then the ending of Marley and me doesn't deliver everything the people want cause the dog dies at the end. And since i need to complain about something or else i wont fit in on this forum . How about some server transfer in SWOTOR some of us are on empty servers
On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 15 2012 02:55
Retour en haut
#4352
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:28
Neuthung
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I haven't kept up with the entirety of the thread, have any BW employees posted a word since the OP? It kind of seems strange they call for a conversation and then don't participate.
#4353
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:30
Jamie9
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Yeah, I don't mind having a sad ending, or a bad ending. Hell, I actually expected it. But I wanted my choices to matter. If that takes another 6 months to make 10 (less than 16, but...), 10 solid, completely different endings. I would pay for it. Provided you never make this mistake ever again.
#4354
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:30
Illum.se
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I used to write endings that made sense at Bioware, but then I took an arrow to the knee...
#4355
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:30
JulienJaden
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Slidell505 wrote...
Come on, you guys are saying you didn't like out quality bioware photoshop? The one that's been out done by fans? I mean you really can't expect bioware to put work into designing one of the most popular alien races. That photoshop was more than enough.
This picture really is better than the one used in the game. If anything, the eyes are not 'glowy' enough (since you see them through the opaque glass as glowing white dots, right?), but other than that, it is distinctly alien, unique and, frankly, I would appreciate it more than the current picture. I would suggest that BioWare revises the ingame picture and, if possible, changes it. Hell, with something like that, why not make Tali at least take her helmet off in the romance scene, if it wasn't too much work?
#4356
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:31
Bradagan
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Neuthung wrote...
I haven't kept up with the entirety of the thread, have any BW employees posted a word since the OP? It kind of seems strange they call for a conversation and then don't participate.
A new page of people's comments is appearing pretty much every half hour as people finish the game. There might be comments from BW staff in here, but it's probably hard for them to keep up.
What he said: --------->
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4H_A7SeawU4
#4357
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:31
ilanaisatree
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Any moments in the entirety of the Mass Effect series that I might have remembered fondly were rendered meaningless in the last 10 minutes. I suppose if anything could still have any impact on me, it would be Thane's death after the citadel attack. I cried then, and I reloaded the save and revisited it several times so that I could cry some more, as if I had my own drell memory. But after his death, the game chose to pretend he didn't exist. I couldn't even keep a picture of him in my cabin. That filled me with so much bitterness I almost wanted to throw my Shepard's life away saving the galaxy.
Until the "ending." Everything having to do with the reapers and saving the galaxy feels completely meaningless now due to the "ending." It was a slap in the face to loyal fans who were promised that their actions would mean something. It was unforgettable alright. But not in a good way.
There was no closure. There were plotholes everywhere. The child was such a saccharine touch it made me retch. If it really was reaper indoctrination, they should've chosen someone I actually cared about. The scene with the Normandy fleeing and crash-landing was utterly ridiculous. The grandfather telling a story? Incredibly lame and of no personal significance.
Use characters I actually care about. What really happens to my crew? What happens to the fleet I put together? What happens to all the races? Reunite Shepard with her LI, whether in death or not. Oh, and recognize that Thane still is an LI even though he's dead, and he's waiting for me, across the sea.
Give us closure. Make it fulfilling. Make it personal.
Until the "ending." Everything having to do with the reapers and saving the galaxy feels completely meaningless now due to the "ending." It was a slap in the face to loyal fans who were promised that their actions would mean something. It was unforgettable alright. But not in a good way.
There was no closure. There were plotholes everywhere. The child was such a saccharine touch it made me retch. If it really was reaper indoctrination, they should've chosen someone I actually cared about. The scene with the Normandy fleeing and crash-landing was utterly ridiculous. The grandfather telling a story? Incredibly lame and of no personal significance.
Use characters I actually care about. What really happens to my crew? What happens to the fleet I put together? What happens to all the races? Reunite Shepard with her LI, whether in death or not. Oh, and recognize that Thane still is an LI even though he's dead, and he's waiting for me, across the sea.
Give us closure. Make it fulfilling. Make it personal.
#4358
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:32
Scott Sion
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Illum.se wrote...
I used to write endings that made sense at Bioware, but then I took an arrow to the knee...
I tried to report you but there was no option for ridicuously over used memes.
Can Bioware get permission to use this instead because this is hawt. Well, hot for a video game charcter.
Modifié par plnero, 16 mars 2012 - 09:36 .
#4359
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:33
e2m2
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[quote]xaurabh123 wrote...
[quote]Karanduar wrote...
[quote]TheMerchantMan wrote...
Ah, finally. I've been stalking the forums for the last two days waiting for the ability to post.
Anyways. Thank you Mr. Priestly for at least letting us know you are listening about the ending, it worries me, of course, because I would prefer you were doing something, or at least keeping something back, whereas listening seems to just prove that you weren't prepared for this, and I had hoped Bioware was better than that.
The problem with asking "what we enjoyed" before the end, is that the end has for all extensive purposes made the rest of the series unenjoyable. All the good we have done is ultimately futile in all of the possible end games. That hurts, and it means I can't revisit them.
I think perhaps the moment with the strongest impact on me, was the death of Legion. His act of messanic sacrifice to bring his people full sentience was touching in itself but when combined with his final question to Tali, and her answer "The answer is yes.". I was moved, moved more deeply than I have ever been before, it was cathartic and meaningful. I stood up and clapped in admiration, fought tears because it was simply beautiful.
I felt the same way when Mordin sacrificed himself for the good of the Krogans, while he hummed that silly song of his, bravely facing death to right his wrongs. It was conflicting, it was heart-wrenching, it made me feel as though I was there, that I wanted my shepard to go up and save him, but I knew I couldn't, he couldn't, It made me feel like I was truly inside the world.
But because of the ending you gave us. You have robbed these moments of their meaning. This is true regardless of what we ultimately choose.
If we choose the blue ending, which if I have any trust in your writer's abilities, I must imagine was a trap (though not necessarily the indoctrtination theory I'm sure you've heard much about), because the cognitive dissonance of Shepard when he is told about it, after just arguing with TIM that control was too risky is too maddeningly unsensical otherwise. And thus Legion and all other synthetics like him will be destroyed anyways.
If we choose the green, then it renders his sacrifice, as well as Mordin's sacrfice completely unnecessary, you turn two of the most moving moments in the game into things that are painful to watch afterwards, because all I want to say is "No, you don't need to, no there is another way" and that is all supposing that the Synthesis ending is indeed good. To me it sounds exactly like the drivel we heard from Saren, a further indictment towards my theory that the final moments of the game, were if not a dream, most certainly a trick.
Finally, if we choose the red, it destroys all the Geth and AI , rendering his sacrifice just as moot.
And even if someone how there were one, say the Blue in which Legion's sacfice could indeed have meant something, it is still meaningless because the Mass Relays are destroyed. The one thing that made this series what it was, the single most identifiable feature is destroyed, and yes, that makes sense for one of the endings, it's powerful and emotional, but when it is true of all the endings, it means that no matter what the sacrifices of Mordin, Legion, Thane, and Ashley. Indeed all of their sacrifices meant nothing, because humanity and the rest of the galaxy's races are a best sent back to the dark ages and at worst destroyed utterly.
The geth will not survive the end, the quarians will not survive the end, humanity does not survive the end, the turians do not survive the end. Not with any semblece of what you've fought for.
What's worse is that, supposing you meant for this to happen, supposing this end really was exactly what you intended to create, a dark and grim afterlook, one that culiminates not in joy but in a gut-wrenching sorrow. Then you were so close to creating it, but instead through the way you culiminated the final scene with the normandy and the Stargazer epilogue.
You missed the oppurtunity to make a haunting, dark, but ultimately inspirational ending. If you had simply used your discarded Chekov's Gun. Liaria's time capsule. No matter how you played, Liara introduces this time capsule. No?
If you had wished for a no-win scenario, you could have discarded the entire end and simply let Shepard die. Humanity lose. The entire galaxy die. But that time capsule, would have made the ending brilliant. Brought the epilogue from tacked on and confusing to meaningful and inspiring. Life will go on, this will be the final cycle.
Instead, we get a message that seems to say to us, "everything you did" is meaningless, and that hurts.
Which reminds me, Liara was always my favourite character but where you took her in Mass Effect 3 brought her above and beyond, she developed in ways I never expected, I can truly say by the end of the game, I wished as though she were real. The moments like the time capsule, and of Thessia, and comforting her, these sorts of things gave me absolute chills.
But where do I go from here? I won't accept, nay can't accept that she is off on some other planet where she will never hear from me, of me, or at least of my death. Her story concluding with death in some far-flung planet, never having known that I saved the galaxy. Indeed, that is something overlooked on the forums, there is absolutely no way that without FTL communication, Joker, or any of the Normandy crew, indeed the entire galaxy would know that the Reapers had been defeated. Any world that hasn't been hit already will simply have to writhe in panic, the ones that have, at best know something has happened and at worst think they are the last organic life in the galaxy.
That's mind-numbingly bad. That invalidates the epilogue's ending even with the most cheery disposition. That reaches far beyond simple plot hole and into unforgivable mistake.
Anyways. Sorry, I'm still sore Bioware. But know this.
I'm not angry because I think you have failed, no. Mass Effect 3 is a triumph, as angry as I am about the ending, I reccomend any fan of the series buys the game, it is a masterpiece. It is a symphony, a beautiful end to the most engaging world I have ever been a part of, I am disappointed because that triumph is spoiled in the very last moments of the game, by something which throws away all that we cared for, all that you had done so well, all that truly made the series great. In favour of something that felt as though, and as the Ipad app now proves was, the result of hasty comprimise, misunderstanding and rushing.
Rather than the send-off we receive, we get mixed messages, mixed signals, convulted story elements and deus ex machina, where we already had a deus ex machina, the catalyst was already a god from the machine in the story, to make it literal seems like meta-humour gone terribly wrong.
[/quote]
Quoting this as well in the off chance the important folks at Bioware read it.
[/quote]
Nothing to add...
[/quote]
[/quote]
This.
[quote]Karanduar wrote...
[quote]TheMerchantMan wrote...
Ah, finally. I've been stalking the forums for the last two days waiting for the ability to post.
Anyways. Thank you Mr. Priestly for at least letting us know you are listening about the ending, it worries me, of course, because I would prefer you were doing something, or at least keeping something back, whereas listening seems to just prove that you weren't prepared for this, and I had hoped Bioware was better than that.
The problem with asking "what we enjoyed" before the end, is that the end has for all extensive purposes made the rest of the series unenjoyable. All the good we have done is ultimately futile in all of the possible end games. That hurts, and it means I can't revisit them.
I think perhaps the moment with the strongest impact on me, was the death of Legion. His act of messanic sacrifice to bring his people full sentience was touching in itself but when combined with his final question to Tali, and her answer "The answer is yes.". I was moved, moved more deeply than I have ever been before, it was cathartic and meaningful. I stood up and clapped in admiration, fought tears because it was simply beautiful.
I felt the same way when Mordin sacrificed himself for the good of the Krogans, while he hummed that silly song of his, bravely facing death to right his wrongs. It was conflicting, it was heart-wrenching, it made me feel as though I was there, that I wanted my shepard to go up and save him, but I knew I couldn't, he couldn't, It made me feel like I was truly inside the world.
But because of the ending you gave us. You have robbed these moments of their meaning. This is true regardless of what we ultimately choose.
If we choose the blue ending, which if I have any trust in your writer's abilities, I must imagine was a trap (though not necessarily the indoctrtination theory I'm sure you've heard much about), because the cognitive dissonance of Shepard when he is told about it, after just arguing with TIM that control was too risky is too maddeningly unsensical otherwise. And thus Legion and all other synthetics like him will be destroyed anyways.
If we choose the green, then it renders his sacrifice, as well as Mordin's sacrfice completely unnecessary, you turn two of the most moving moments in the game into things that are painful to watch afterwards, because all I want to say is "No, you don't need to, no there is another way" and that is all supposing that the Synthesis ending is indeed good. To me it sounds exactly like the drivel we heard from Saren, a further indictment towards my theory that the final moments of the game, were if not a dream, most certainly a trick.
Finally, if we choose the red, it destroys all the Geth and AI , rendering his sacrifice just as moot.
And even if someone how there were one, say the Blue in which Legion's sacfice could indeed have meant something, it is still meaningless because the Mass Relays are destroyed. The one thing that made this series what it was, the single most identifiable feature is destroyed, and yes, that makes sense for one of the endings, it's powerful and emotional, but when it is true of all the endings, it means that no matter what the sacrifices of Mordin, Legion, Thane, and Ashley. Indeed all of their sacrifices meant nothing, because humanity and the rest of the galaxy's races are a best sent back to the dark ages and at worst destroyed utterly.
The geth will not survive the end, the quarians will not survive the end, humanity does not survive the end, the turians do not survive the end. Not with any semblece of what you've fought for.
What's worse is that, supposing you meant for this to happen, supposing this end really was exactly what you intended to create, a dark and grim afterlook, one that culiminates not in joy but in a gut-wrenching sorrow. Then you were so close to creating it, but instead through the way you culiminated the final scene with the normandy and the Stargazer epilogue.
You missed the oppurtunity to make a haunting, dark, but ultimately inspirational ending. If you had simply used your discarded Chekov's Gun. Liaria's time capsule. No matter how you played, Liara introduces this time capsule. No?
If you had wished for a no-win scenario, you could have discarded the entire end and simply let Shepard die. Humanity lose. The entire galaxy die. But that time capsule, would have made the ending brilliant. Brought the epilogue from tacked on and confusing to meaningful and inspiring. Life will go on, this will be the final cycle.
Instead, we get a message that seems to say to us, "everything you did" is meaningless, and that hurts.
Which reminds me, Liara was always my favourite character but where you took her in Mass Effect 3 brought her above and beyond, she developed in ways I never expected, I can truly say by the end of the game, I wished as though she were real. The moments like the time capsule, and of Thessia, and comforting her, these sorts of things gave me absolute chills.
But where do I go from here? I won't accept, nay can't accept that she is off on some other planet where she will never hear from me, of me, or at least of my death. Her story concluding with death in some far-flung planet, never having known that I saved the galaxy. Indeed, that is something overlooked on the forums, there is absolutely no way that without FTL communication, Joker, or any of the Normandy crew, indeed the entire galaxy would know that the Reapers had been defeated. Any world that hasn't been hit already will simply have to writhe in panic, the ones that have, at best know something has happened and at worst think they are the last organic life in the galaxy.
That's mind-numbingly bad. That invalidates the epilogue's ending even with the most cheery disposition. That reaches far beyond simple plot hole and into unforgivable mistake.
Anyways. Sorry, I'm still sore Bioware. But know this.
I'm not angry because I think you have failed, no. Mass Effect 3 is a triumph, as angry as I am about the ending, I reccomend any fan of the series buys the game, it is a masterpiece. It is a symphony, a beautiful end to the most engaging world I have ever been a part of, I am disappointed because that triumph is spoiled in the very last moments of the game, by something which throws away all that we cared for, all that you had done so well, all that truly made the series great. In favour of something that felt as though, and as the Ipad app now proves was, the result of hasty comprimise, misunderstanding and rushing.
Rather than the send-off we receive, we get mixed messages, mixed signals, convulted story elements and deus ex machina, where we already had a deus ex machina, the catalyst was already a god from the machine in the story, to make it literal seems like meta-humour gone terribly wrong.
[/quote]
Quoting this as well in the off chance the important folks at Bioware read it.
[/quote]
Nothing to add...
[/quote]
[/quote]
This.
#4360
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:34
JasonC Shepard
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The concept art for the monster was overall, bad, and someone from bioware probably recognized this and was like: "Wait, no. This sin't going to work. Instead lets just make him slightly husk looking."Trakadon wrote...
I wanna know who and why the scrbbed the endi9ng where you fight TIM after he turns into a reaper monster. I get it that TIM was more into the whole "I'm smarter then everyone" bit but That didn't stop Sovereign from taking control of Saren's body and turning him into a monster. I think that would have deen a better ending then the other 3 we were given.Chris Priestly wrote
#4361
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:34
DoctorAwesome91
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I really enjoyed Mass Effect 3, right up until Shep collapsed on the magic elevator. Then things took a turn for the worse. Suddenly all my choices no longer mattered and I was forced to choose between: Destroy mass relays and control reapers, Destroy mass relays and kill reapers or Destroy mass relays and make everything cyborgs.
I thought that the whole point of it being the last game would be that the conclusion would go off in wild tangents depending on your choices throughout the game, that's what we were led to believe and for the most part I actually thought it would. Salarian scientific expertise to help build the Crucible, or Krogan brute strength for Shock Troops, but it doesn't make a difference in the end.
I don't really see a point of releasing a better ending, ME3 will forever be remembered as a great game, but they mucked up the endings so bad they had to fix it.
My hopes aren't particularly high on hearing any sort of response from Bioware anyway.
I thought that the whole point of it being the last game would be that the conclusion would go off in wild tangents depending on your choices throughout the game, that's what we were led to believe and for the most part I actually thought it would. Salarian scientific expertise to help build the Crucible, or Krogan brute strength for Shock Troops, but it doesn't make a difference in the end.
I don't really see a point of releasing a better ending, ME3 will forever be remembered as a great game, but they mucked up the endings so bad they had to fix it.
My hopes aren't particularly high on hearing any sort of response from Bioware anyway.
#4362
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:35
Lili_oups
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FIXED FOR YOUDESTRAUDO wrote...
I think the ending was SH!!T
#4363
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:35
Static Veins
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Finally finished the game and seen the much-hated ending. My initial thoughts? I can't believe it's getting the backlash it is.
Here's my opinion of the ending, beware of spoilers (and also beware wall of text!):
The final section of the game, from the fleets arriving through the Mass Effect relays to the ground assault and to the final push to the Citadel and the confrontation upon it is - no exaggeration - possibly my favourite moment in gaming. Ever. That section is an amazing end to the series. I was seriously sat so close to the edge of my seat as it unfolded, the scenes aboard the Citadel especially.
Now, most people seem to be flying off the handle once Shepard gets taken directly to the Catalyst. I've seen people saying it doesn't make sense and seems corny - yes, I found it a bit cheesy that this being had chosen the Earth kid as the form that it would take for Shepard, but the concept of the scene itself is show stopping. Here we are; we have built our forces for three games, forced our way through the enemy lines and now we stand at the precipice - the moment where galactic history will change forever. Three choices; three very hard choices. I sat staring at the screen for a good 5 minutes weighing up what I should do. All this time I have been hell-bent on destroying the Reapers, but with that comes the cost of also destroying myself, all advanced technology and the Geth, who have recently become fully sentient and brokered peace with organics. I could go the way of the Illusive Man and choose to control the Reapers, but can one man handle such a feat without succumbing to indoctrination or madness and end up destroying what he wishes to protect? Finally, I could merge organics and synthetics, reaching the "next step of evolution" - but what does that mean exactly?
I wondered, what would it mean to merge these lifeforms? I can imagine it would be horrific to the general populace of the galaxy. The thought of it is horrific to me, thinking of it now - my very being changed into something new, something different. But is it something better? Thinking back to the rest of the game, there seems to be a very distinct running theme of organic/synthetic metamorphosis; Shepard's doubts as to whether he is human or an artificial creation (that one's been around since the start of ME2, no less), EDI receiving a body and becoming ever more human, the Geth becoming sentient and becoming an integral part of the galactic community. Being paragon, my Shepard saw the positives of these ideas - he helped EDI fall in love/feel human emotions, he brought the Geth and Quarians together; he saw what good can become of this. So, I went for it - I merged the two beings, feeling that all of my experiences in the game (hell, even from first meeting the Geth and the organic/machine-hybrid Saren at the very beginning of the first game) paid a part in making that choice. To me, it felt like the natural progression of evolution for this universe, and the natural culmination of the story.
Bravo, BioWare, bravo. You made a real philosophical, thought provoking ending, in my opinion.
Now, that doesn't mean I'm entirely happy with the ending, of course. The Mass Effect relays are destroyed in the process of spreading this energy - I can get behind that, as it seems like the most lore-logical way of making that happen. But why was the Normandy leaving through a relay? Why wasn't it with the rest of the fleet - in fact, what happened to the rest of the fleet? And my crew? I know they got back aboard the Normandy (well, at least some of them did), but how? Did it make a return to Earth before it retreated? Why, when, how? This needs explanation.
What also needs explanation is what becomes of the crew - and the rest of the galaxy - now that the relays are destroyed. I believe it could be implied by the after-credits scene with the old man and the child that the planet they crashed on becomes populated, but how do they do that with such a small crew? That gene pool is waaaaaaaaay too small, but then, perhaps - in the Merge ending, at least - this newly evolved race does not reproduce in the same way? Of course, the planet with the man and child could be any other planet where humans were left once the relays were gone. This needs explanation. Same with what became of all the other races.
And one last thing, I speak of how the brokering of peace between organics and synthetics made the ending relative for me, but I believe there should have been an option where Shepard can rebuke the Catalysts idea that the two races will always battle - he did just do the impossible by making peace between Geth & organics, surely he can argue against the options given to him at the end and try and convince the Catalyst to just leave with the Reapers and let the races get on with things and see what becomes of the galaxy on their own terms. Perhaps this could be added in the DLC everyone who hated the endings wants; leave the original endings intact (while adding an epilogue to explain the discrepancies I brought up earlier), but add a 4th option ("Resist"), where Shepard has to battle Reapers/the Catalyst to destroy them on his own terms and free the galaxy.
Phew, that was long!
All in all, I'm really happy with how things turned out as an ending to the series. The game as a whole is fantastic and, despite the lack of explanation, I feel the endings were a fitting end to the impossible battle Shepard, his crew, and the galaxy as a whole faced. If Bioware do add new endings/add to the existing endings in DLC, I'll be happy to get more closure, but I certainly don't believe the series is "ruined", like many people do, with the endings we have now.
Here's my opinion of the ending, beware of spoilers (and also beware wall of text!):
The final section of the game, from the fleets arriving through the Mass Effect relays to the ground assault and to the final push to the Citadel and the confrontation upon it is - no exaggeration - possibly my favourite moment in gaming. Ever. That section is an amazing end to the series. I was seriously sat so close to the edge of my seat as it unfolded, the scenes aboard the Citadel especially.
Now, most people seem to be flying off the handle once Shepard gets taken directly to the Catalyst. I've seen people saying it doesn't make sense and seems corny - yes, I found it a bit cheesy that this being had chosen the Earth kid as the form that it would take for Shepard, but the concept of the scene itself is show stopping. Here we are; we have built our forces for three games, forced our way through the enemy lines and now we stand at the precipice - the moment where galactic history will change forever. Three choices; three very hard choices. I sat staring at the screen for a good 5 minutes weighing up what I should do. All this time I have been hell-bent on destroying the Reapers, but with that comes the cost of also destroying myself, all advanced technology and the Geth, who have recently become fully sentient and brokered peace with organics. I could go the way of the Illusive Man and choose to control the Reapers, but can one man handle such a feat without succumbing to indoctrination or madness and end up destroying what he wishes to protect? Finally, I could merge organics and synthetics, reaching the "next step of evolution" - but what does that mean exactly?
I wondered, what would it mean to merge these lifeforms? I can imagine it would be horrific to the general populace of the galaxy. The thought of it is horrific to me, thinking of it now - my very being changed into something new, something different. But is it something better? Thinking back to the rest of the game, there seems to be a very distinct running theme of organic/synthetic metamorphosis; Shepard's doubts as to whether he is human or an artificial creation (that one's been around since the start of ME2, no less), EDI receiving a body and becoming ever more human, the Geth becoming sentient and becoming an integral part of the galactic community. Being paragon, my Shepard saw the positives of these ideas - he helped EDI fall in love/feel human emotions, he brought the Geth and Quarians together; he saw what good can become of this. So, I went for it - I merged the two beings, feeling that all of my experiences in the game (hell, even from first meeting the Geth and the organic/machine-hybrid Saren at the very beginning of the first game) paid a part in making that choice. To me, it felt like the natural progression of evolution for this universe, and the natural culmination of the story.
Bravo, BioWare, bravo. You made a real philosophical, thought provoking ending, in my opinion.
Now, that doesn't mean I'm entirely happy with the ending, of course. The Mass Effect relays are destroyed in the process of spreading this energy - I can get behind that, as it seems like the most lore-logical way of making that happen. But why was the Normandy leaving through a relay? Why wasn't it with the rest of the fleet - in fact, what happened to the rest of the fleet? And my crew? I know they got back aboard the Normandy (well, at least some of them did), but how? Did it make a return to Earth before it retreated? Why, when, how? This needs explanation.
What also needs explanation is what becomes of the crew - and the rest of the galaxy - now that the relays are destroyed. I believe it could be implied by the after-credits scene with the old man and the child that the planet they crashed on becomes populated, but how do they do that with such a small crew? That gene pool is waaaaaaaaay too small, but then, perhaps - in the Merge ending, at least - this newly evolved race does not reproduce in the same way? Of course, the planet with the man and child could be any other planet where humans were left once the relays were gone. This needs explanation. Same with what became of all the other races.
And one last thing, I speak of how the brokering of peace between organics and synthetics made the ending relative for me, but I believe there should have been an option where Shepard can rebuke the Catalysts idea that the two races will always battle - he did just do the impossible by making peace between Geth & organics, surely he can argue against the options given to him at the end and try and convince the Catalyst to just leave with the Reapers and let the races get on with things and see what becomes of the galaxy on their own terms. Perhaps this could be added in the DLC everyone who hated the endings wants; leave the original endings intact (while adding an epilogue to explain the discrepancies I brought up earlier), but add a 4th option ("Resist"), where Shepard has to battle Reapers/the Catalyst to destroy them on his own terms and free the galaxy.
Phew, that was long!
All in all, I'm really happy with how things turned out as an ending to the series. The game as a whole is fantastic and, despite the lack of explanation, I feel the endings were a fitting end to the impossible battle Shepard, his crew, and the galaxy as a whole faced. If Bioware do add new endings/add to the existing endings in DLC, I'll be happy to get more closure, but I certainly don't believe the series is "ruined", like many people do, with the endings we have now.
#4364
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:35
RidgeRunner5
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I was sad when Mordin died
I was depressed when Thane died
I was distraught when Legion died
I was tearing up when I saw my friend's faces as I made my decision
I was dead inside when I saw what happened to the Normandy
I HONESTLY would have preferred if it ended with the Normandy sitting there in the forest, with no movement. It brought more closure to the game by assuming everyone inside had died running like the ****es they never were, than to see a "happy" ending with the guy with genetic boneitis, my LI and the squad mate that got laser'd in London getting off.
I was depressed when Thane died
I was distraught when Legion died
I was tearing up when I saw my friend's faces as I made my decision
I was dead inside when I saw what happened to the Normandy
I HONESTLY would have preferred if it ended with the Normandy sitting there in the forest, with no movement. It brought more closure to the game by assuming everyone inside had died running like the ****es they never were, than to see a "happy" ending with the guy with genetic boneitis, my LI and the squad mate that got laser'd in London getting off.
Modifié par RidgeRunner5, 16 mars 2012 - 09:38 .
#4365
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:36
twystedspyder
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Asef Dimakiir wrote...
(Probably going to get some hate from this, particularly since I don't post much buut....)
I would really consider checking out the indoctrination theory. I've always wanted to get a first hand look at what experiencing indoctrination would be like through Shepard's eyes, especially considering how he's been around reaper artifacts and reapers longer than anyone. It's odd that he's been completely unaffected up 'til now. If that really ends up being the case, I have a large respect for bioware for attempting something unique and crazy rather than a ride off into the sunset happy and flowers. I don't think this is the end. I have a feeling after this Shepard will wake up which will probably extended by a DLC (hopefully cheap or free). Nevertheless, I have faith in bioware that they do put alot of passion and thought into their game. I find it hard to believe that the entire ME3 game is so awesome and full of character just to suddenly have such odd and abrupt things happen at the very end. Reading up on the indoctrination theory, things begin to make -alot- of sense. (Particularly since the child's 3D model asset is -named- harbinger.)
Harbinger's had a weird obsession with possessing Shepard for a long time now. It seems likely to me he'd try to indoctrinate and control him at this point (choosing the control reapers option is more than likely allowing Harbinger to control Shepard, alot of things are mirrored at the very end of the game, parallels to ME1 in particular. TIM's suicide, the giant beam of light (illos), the god VI (somewhat similar to Vigil, though that's a bit of a longshot.). The fact that Shepard is so...compliant to everything the child is telling him. To me it seems like a first hand experience of what indoctrination is like. You're being convinced that compromise is the best option. Just like Saren. Just like TIM. You're given three options because they are limited for a reason. Indoctrination makes you feel hopeless and set in your path. There is no resistance, there's only compromise. -Unless- you have the will and conviction to see through it. As for what happens afterwards -- his crew and joker ending up in a paradise planet, the squadmates that were with you suddenly oddly there? Its more than likely a comfort. Wishful thinking on Shepard's part -- consider how Mordin and Garrus talk about going somewhere tropical and retiring. This may be Harbinger 'rewarding' him for his compliance or just him hallucinating as a coping mechanism -- makes more sense to me than them just poofing on the normandy. If this is the ending, I love it. It shows that Shepard really is human, he's not some sort of indoctrination/reaper-resistant messiah being. It shows that the journey he went through, all the pain, all the no-win odds he pushed through were amazing feats -- but even he is human and vulnerable.
*Cough* Anyways. Think about it besides immediately raging. You might be surprised.
Thanks for reading my long-winded rant/counter-argument and thank you Bioware for the characters and the adventure. Hell, even the interesting ballsy ending (if that's the case.) I look forward to possibly seeing the DLC aftermath (hopefully) that'll bring us some closure.
EDIT: Just thought I'd add links to said theory. Well compiled by the community. Pretty awesome. Enjoy.
http://social.biowar...index/9727423/1
http://w11.zetaboard...opic/7688087/1/
Yep. +1. I know some people don't buy into this as a better ending, but many of us certainly do. If this was planned and we're getting the rest of the ending sometime soon, I would be blown away. If not, well... I'd still be less upset if this interpretation at least was planned, even if there was never any planned DLC true ending. Not preorder the next Bioware RPG or buy DLC for ME3 less upset, but certainly more open to new games less upset.
#4366
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:38
Oxy Clean
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- Members
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[quote]e2m2 wrote...
[quote]xaurabh123 wrote...
[quote]Karanduar wrote...
[quote]TheMerchantMan wrote...
Ah, finally. I've been stalking the forums for the last two days waiting for the ability to post.
Anyways. Thank you Mr. Priestly for at least letting us know you are listening about the ending, it worries me, of course, because I would prefer you were doing something, or at least keeping something back, whereas listening seems to just prove that you weren't prepared for this, and I had hoped Bioware was better than that.
The problem with asking "what we enjoyed" before the end, is that the end has for all extensive purposes made the rest of the series unenjoyable. All the good we have done is ultimately futile in all of the possible end games. That hurts, and it means I can't revisit them.
I think perhaps the moment with the strongest impact on me, was the death of Legion. His act of messanic sacrifice to bring his people full sentience was touching in itself but when combined with his final question to Tali, and her answer "The answer is yes.". I was moved, moved more deeply than I have ever been before, it was cathartic and meaningful. I stood up and clapped in admiration, fought tears because it was simply beautiful.
I felt the same way when Mordin sacrificed himself for the good of the Krogans, while he hummed that silly song of his, bravely facing death to right his wrongs. It was conflicting, it was heart-wrenching, it made me feel as though I was there, that I wanted my shepard to go up and save him, but I knew I couldn't, he couldn't, It made me feel like I was truly inside the world.
But because of the ending you gave us. You have robbed these moments of their meaning. This is true regardless of what we ultimately choose.
If we choose the blue ending, which if I have any trust in your writer's abilities, I must imagine was a trap (though not necessarily the indoctrtination theory I'm sure you've heard much about), because the cognitive dissonance of Shepard when he is told about it, after just arguing with TIM that control was too risky is too maddeningly unsensical otherwise. And thus Legion and all other synthetics like him will be destroyed anyways.
If we choose the green, then it renders his sacrifice, as well as Mordin's sacrfice completely unnecessary, you turn two of the most moving moments in the game into things that are painful to watch afterwards, because all I want to say is "No, you don't need to, no there is another way" and that is all supposing that the Synthesis ending is indeed good. To me it sounds exactly like the drivel we heard from Saren, a further indictment towards my theory that the final moments of the game, were if not a dream, most certainly a trick.
Finally, if we choose the red, it destroys all the Geth and AI , rendering his sacrifice just as moot.
And even if someone how there were one, say the Blue in which Legion's sacfice could indeed have meant something, it is still meaningless because the Mass Relays are destroyed. The one thing that made this series what it was, the single most identifiable feature is destroyed, and yes, that makes sense for one of the endings, it's powerful and emotional, but when it is true of all the endings, it means that no matter what the sacrifices of Mordin, Legion, Thane, and Ashley. Indeed all of their sacrifices meant nothing, because humanity and the rest of the galaxy's races are a best sent back to the dark ages and at worst destroyed utterly.
The geth will not survive the end, the quarians will not survive the end, humanity does not survive the end, the turians do not survive the end. Not with any semblece of what you've fought for.
What's worse is that, supposing you meant for this to happen, supposing this end really was exactly what you intended to create, a dark and grim afterlook, one that culiminates not in joy but in a gut-wrenching sorrow. Then you were so close to creating it, but instead through the way you culiminated the final scene with the normandy and the Stargazer epilogue.
You missed the oppurtunity to make a haunting, dark, but ultimately inspirational ending. If you had simply used your discarded Chekov's Gun. Liaria's time capsule. No matter how you played, Liara introduces this time capsule. No?
If you had wished for a no-win scenario, you could have discarded the entire end and simply let Shepard die. Humanity lose. The entire galaxy die. But that time capsule, would have made the ending brilliant. Brought the epilogue from tacked on and confusing to meaningful and inspiring. Life will go on, this will be the final cycle.
Instead, we get a message that seems to say to us, "everything you did" is meaningless, and that hurts.
Which reminds me, Liara was always my favourite character but where you took her in Mass Effect 3 brought her above and beyond, she developed in ways I never expected, I can truly say by the end of the game, I wished as though she were real. The moments like the time capsule, and of Thessia, and comforting her, these sorts of things gave me absolute chills.
But where do I go from here? I won't accept, nay can't accept that she is off on some other planet where she will never hear from me, of me, or at least of my death. Her story concluding with death in some far-flung planet, never having known that I saved the galaxy. Indeed, that is something overlooked on the forums, there is absolutely no way that without FTL communication, Joker, or any of the Normandy crew, indeed the entire galaxy would know that the Reapers had been defeated. Any world that hasn't been hit already will simply have to writhe in panic, the ones that have, at best know something has happened and at worst think they are the last organic life in the galaxy.
That's mind-numbingly bad. That invalidates the epilogue's ending even with the most cheery disposition. That reaches far beyond simple plot hole and into unforgivable mistake.
Anyways. Sorry, I'm still sore Bioware. But know this.
I'm not angry because I think you have failed, no. Mass Effect 3 is a triumph, as angry as I am about the ending, I reccomend any fan of the series buys the game, it is a masterpiece. It is a symphony, a beautiful end to the most engaging world I have ever been a part of, I am disappointed because that triumph is spoiled in the very last moments of the game, by something which throws away all that we cared for, all that you had done so well, all that truly made the series great. In favour of something that felt as though, and as the Ipad app now proves was, the result of hasty comprimise, misunderstanding and rushing.
Rather than the send-off we receive, we get mixed messages, mixed signals, convulted story elements and deus ex machina, where we already had a deus ex machina, the catalyst was already a god from the machine in the story, to make it literal seems like meta-humour gone terribly wrong.
[/quote]
Quoting this as well in the off chance the important folks at Bioware read it.
[/quote]
Nothing to add...
[/quote]
[/quote]
This.
[/quote]
I don't think there is anything more to add.
[quote]xaurabh123 wrote...
[quote]Karanduar wrote...
[quote]TheMerchantMan wrote...
Ah, finally. I've been stalking the forums for the last two days waiting for the ability to post.
Anyways. Thank you Mr. Priestly for at least letting us know you are listening about the ending, it worries me, of course, because I would prefer you were doing something, or at least keeping something back, whereas listening seems to just prove that you weren't prepared for this, and I had hoped Bioware was better than that.
The problem with asking "what we enjoyed" before the end, is that the end has for all extensive purposes made the rest of the series unenjoyable. All the good we have done is ultimately futile in all of the possible end games. That hurts, and it means I can't revisit them.
I think perhaps the moment with the strongest impact on me, was the death of Legion. His act of messanic sacrifice to bring his people full sentience was touching in itself but when combined with his final question to Tali, and her answer "The answer is yes.". I was moved, moved more deeply than I have ever been before, it was cathartic and meaningful. I stood up and clapped in admiration, fought tears because it was simply beautiful.
I felt the same way when Mordin sacrificed himself for the good of the Krogans, while he hummed that silly song of his, bravely facing death to right his wrongs. It was conflicting, it was heart-wrenching, it made me feel as though I was there, that I wanted my shepard to go up and save him, but I knew I couldn't, he couldn't, It made me feel like I was truly inside the world.
But because of the ending you gave us. You have robbed these moments of their meaning. This is true regardless of what we ultimately choose.
If we choose the blue ending, which if I have any trust in your writer's abilities, I must imagine was a trap (though not necessarily the indoctrtination theory I'm sure you've heard much about), because the cognitive dissonance of Shepard when he is told about it, after just arguing with TIM that control was too risky is too maddeningly unsensical otherwise. And thus Legion and all other synthetics like him will be destroyed anyways.
If we choose the green, then it renders his sacrifice, as well as Mordin's sacrfice completely unnecessary, you turn two of the most moving moments in the game into things that are painful to watch afterwards, because all I want to say is "No, you don't need to, no there is another way" and that is all supposing that the Synthesis ending is indeed good. To me it sounds exactly like the drivel we heard from Saren, a further indictment towards my theory that the final moments of the game, were if not a dream, most certainly a trick.
Finally, if we choose the red, it destroys all the Geth and AI , rendering his sacrifice just as moot.
And even if someone how there were one, say the Blue in which Legion's sacfice could indeed have meant something, it is still meaningless because the Mass Relays are destroyed. The one thing that made this series what it was, the single most identifiable feature is destroyed, and yes, that makes sense for one of the endings, it's powerful and emotional, but when it is true of all the endings, it means that no matter what the sacrifices of Mordin, Legion, Thane, and Ashley. Indeed all of their sacrifices meant nothing, because humanity and the rest of the galaxy's races are a best sent back to the dark ages and at worst destroyed utterly.
The geth will not survive the end, the quarians will not survive the end, humanity does not survive the end, the turians do not survive the end. Not with any semblece of what you've fought for.
What's worse is that, supposing you meant for this to happen, supposing this end really was exactly what you intended to create, a dark and grim afterlook, one that culiminates not in joy but in a gut-wrenching sorrow. Then you were so close to creating it, but instead through the way you culiminated the final scene with the normandy and the Stargazer epilogue.
You missed the oppurtunity to make a haunting, dark, but ultimately inspirational ending. If you had simply used your discarded Chekov's Gun. Liaria's time capsule. No matter how you played, Liara introduces this time capsule. No?
If you had wished for a no-win scenario, you could have discarded the entire end and simply let Shepard die. Humanity lose. The entire galaxy die. But that time capsule, would have made the ending brilliant. Brought the epilogue from tacked on and confusing to meaningful and inspiring. Life will go on, this will be the final cycle.
Instead, we get a message that seems to say to us, "everything you did" is meaningless, and that hurts.
Which reminds me, Liara was always my favourite character but where you took her in Mass Effect 3 brought her above and beyond, she developed in ways I never expected, I can truly say by the end of the game, I wished as though she were real. The moments like the time capsule, and of Thessia, and comforting her, these sorts of things gave me absolute chills.
But where do I go from here? I won't accept, nay can't accept that she is off on some other planet where she will never hear from me, of me, or at least of my death. Her story concluding with death in some far-flung planet, never having known that I saved the galaxy. Indeed, that is something overlooked on the forums, there is absolutely no way that without FTL communication, Joker, or any of the Normandy crew, indeed the entire galaxy would know that the Reapers had been defeated. Any world that hasn't been hit already will simply have to writhe in panic, the ones that have, at best know something has happened and at worst think they are the last organic life in the galaxy.
That's mind-numbingly bad. That invalidates the epilogue's ending even with the most cheery disposition. That reaches far beyond simple plot hole and into unforgivable mistake.
Anyways. Sorry, I'm still sore Bioware. But know this.
I'm not angry because I think you have failed, no. Mass Effect 3 is a triumph, as angry as I am about the ending, I reccomend any fan of the series buys the game, it is a masterpiece. It is a symphony, a beautiful end to the most engaging world I have ever been a part of, I am disappointed because that triumph is spoiled in the very last moments of the game, by something which throws away all that we cared for, all that you had done so well, all that truly made the series great. In favour of something that felt as though, and as the Ipad app now proves was, the result of hasty comprimise, misunderstanding and rushing.
Rather than the send-off we receive, we get mixed messages, mixed signals, convulted story elements and deus ex machina, where we already had a deus ex machina, the catalyst was already a god from the machine in the story, to make it literal seems like meta-humour gone terribly wrong.
[/quote]
Quoting this as well in the off chance the important folks at Bioware read it.
[/quote]
Nothing to add...
[/quote]
[/quote]
This.
[/quote]
I don't think there is anything more to add.
#4367
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:38
Major.Joe.Kickass
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- Members
- 11 messages
RidgeRunner5 wrote...
I was sad when Mordin died
I was depressed when Thane died
I was distraught when Legion died
I was tearing up when I saw my friend's faces as I made my decision
I was dead inside when I saw what happened to the Normandy
k
#4368
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:39
tonnactus
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- Members
- 6 165 messages
nitraw wrote...
- What will happen to all the fleets that are now stuck in the sol system without mass relays (there were a hell of a lot of ships there)?
This answer is actually easy.They travel back to their homeworlds using the stasis pods to survive the journey.
I guess that because the normandy as a turian/human design have some that they are common things in other ships too.
#4369
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:39
NightGia
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- 13 messages
Alright...if you're listening, this is what I personally would like to see. A followup DLC that takes in all your choices through all the games to this point (as was promised) and plays off which ending you chose.
1) You chose the "Control" ending: Shepard has become part of the Reapers OR if you go with the Indoctrination Theory, Shepard is still pretty much part of the Reapers. You play as Reaper-Shep with Reaper creature teammates and go on several missions where you fight all the forces you assembled previously. Former squad members would be boss battles, and there would be plenty of "Shep, WHY!?" drama to be had.
2) You chose the "Synthesis" ending: I had the least amount of ideas for this one. Maybe something to show that Synthesis wasn't the answer after all. Some kind of infighting, or maybe play as Shepard within the "collective unconscious" and fight against the Reaper Code that is trying to gain dominance over everything, now that Organics and Synthetics are one.
3) You chose the "Destroy" ending: This would be the "Indoctrination Theory" ending everyone is clamoring for. Shepard has fought off the Indoctrination by still choosing to destroy the Reapers. You awake in the rubble and must finish out the war against the Reapers, culminating in an epic battle against the Harbinger (and maybe the Illusive Man too).
1) You chose the "Control" ending: Shepard has become part of the Reapers OR if you go with the Indoctrination Theory, Shepard is still pretty much part of the Reapers. You play as Reaper-Shep with Reaper creature teammates and go on several missions where you fight all the forces you assembled previously. Former squad members would be boss battles, and there would be plenty of "Shep, WHY!?" drama to be had.
2) You chose the "Synthesis" ending: I had the least amount of ideas for this one. Maybe something to show that Synthesis wasn't the answer after all. Some kind of infighting, or maybe play as Shepard within the "collective unconscious" and fight against the Reaper Code that is trying to gain dominance over everything, now that Organics and Synthetics are one.
3) You chose the "Destroy" ending: This would be the "Indoctrination Theory" ending everyone is clamoring for. Shepard has fought off the Indoctrination by still choosing to destroy the Reapers. You awake in the rubble and must finish out the war against the Reapers, culminating in an epic battle against the Harbinger (and maybe the Illusive Man too).
#4370
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:39
King_Gabs
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did we get a reply from bioware? are they actually reading the 175 pages? of comments?
#4371
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:40
vigna
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plnero wrote...
Illum.se wrote...
I used to write endings that made sense at Bioware, but then I took an arrow to the knee...
I tried to report you but there was no option for ridicuously over used memes.
Can Bioware get permission to use this instead because this is hawt. Well, hot for a video game charcter.
That is so amazingly awesome......
#4372
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:40
BalooTheBear
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Just answer me this bioware, what happened to choice? What happened to different endings for different playthroughs?
#4373
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:41
Jamie9
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- Members
- 4 172 messages
King_Gabs wrote...
did we get a reply from bioware? are they actually reading the 175 pages? of comments?
No reply as of yet. And they better be. I've read about 150 of them, and I'm not getting paid to do so.
#4374
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:43
Stygian1
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- Members
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tonnactus wrote...
nitraw wrote...
- What will happen to all the fleets that are now stuck in the sol system without mass relays (there were a hell of a lot of ships there)?
This answer is actually easy.They travel back to their homeworlds using the stasis pods to survive the journey.
I guess that because the normandy as a turian/human design have some that they are common things in other ships too.
Fuel?
#4375
Posté 16 mars 2012 - 09:43
Nighthunteer
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- 285 messages
Akael_Bayn wrote...
Quick, deflect the topic to something positive!
...yeah, we're not stupid, you know?
Don't give us this "We don't want to spoil things for people who aren't done BS.
How about a straight answer about where all the many and varied endings we were promised went?
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”
I am glad you are on the frontpage, the first thing they will see!
