On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
#4701
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:08
The Cycles, they repeat themselves.
#4702
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:08
#4703
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:09
#4704
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:09
Couldn't have said it better myself.bwFex wrote...
I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.
I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.
I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.
The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.
When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.
I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.
When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.
When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.
When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.
And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.
If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.
Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.
And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.
It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.
No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.
In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.
And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?
It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.
No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.
Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?
Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.
No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.
The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.
And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.
Just make it right.
#4705
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:10
#4706
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:11
#4707
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:11
I don't even mind the endings.
#4708
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:12
#4709
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:14
I had my Shepard sidle up to the upper bar in Purgatory for a drink. Then another. And finally a third, which caused her to black out. I was totally thrilled and amused when she woke up on the bench next to Aria who looked down at her with amusement and a slight show of relief before looking straight ahead once again. That little thing right there totally made my day. It may sound messed up, but it did. Great job with that one, guys. Aria has always been one of my favorite characters in the ME universe and I was happy to see her back. Thanks.
#4710
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:17
Ya I have a question, Why would you make me not want to play any Mass Effect games ever again......EVER?Chris Priestly wrote...
We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.
In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?
Modifié par United_Strafes, 17 mars 2012 - 02:21 .
#4711
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:18
The story of Mass Effect has never been about the Reapers, this is something that became lost in those final moments of the story. What had been paramount through the games was how we chose to survive, how we chose to rally the galaxy and how we created our own story. The Reapers themselves were merely a macguffin to this end and could have been just as readily replaced by something organic like the Tyranids from Warhammer 40K. Their purpose was to create a threat that would form the heart of our story.
- In Mass Effect 1, we did not even learn of the existence of the Reaper until Virmire and until that moment we had only vague images of an ancient war that wiped out the Protheans. Even after learning about the Reaper, our main threat remained Saren until the climax.
- In Mass Effect 2, the Reapers disappeared from the story almost entirely. We became involved in the story of the Collectors, the remains of the ancient Prothean race and once again we faced a Reaper only at the very end. Through it all the question still hadn't been posed of why they did what they did, all that really mattered was how to stop them.
- In Mass Effect 3, the Reapers obviously play a tremendous role. However, once again, the purpose was not to find out what they were but rather to stop them. To complete the Crucible with the hopes that it might be used to defeat them. After all that work, all that dedication to fighting the Reapers I found that I simply didn't care what they were, why they did what they did.
This was the beauty of Mass Effect, our ability to create our own story by the choices we made and retained only within the framework of the end result. I was never so possessed by every decision I made as I was during Mass Effect 2; I remember being terrified at that end run and wondering if I had done everything necessary to ensure Shepard survived. The relationship I had formed with Tali made me hesitant enough to send her on any assignment in the Collector Base, costing me the lives of other crew members. For the first time I understood why fraternization rules existed. My Shepard could not make that hard decision to risk her life and it cost him dearly, even if I had played Paragon the whole way through.
I never once wondered about the Reapers. Who they were or why they were purging all the races. What mattered was stopping them. That was Shepard's story. The origin of that mechanical race could have been explored in other parts to the Mass Effect series. Instead, I fought to preserve the races and their way of life. Nothing more, nothing less.
In the ending of Mass Effect 3, the theme that seemed to have driven the entire story of Mass Effect was lost. We were abruptly and suddenly thrust into the story of the Reapers. Suddenly we had three choices that were not influenced by anything we had done. Through the multiplayer we could apply minimal effort throughout the single player campaign and still end up with the same result as an individual who may have fought through every dialogue sequence and every side quest. In that case our ending would be exactly the same.
You see, for me it isn't about whether or not Shepard lives. It wasn't that I wanted a happy ending where Shepard raises a lot of little blue children. Sometimes the tragic loss of a hero can be just as emotionally compelling as his survival. What I most wanted was an ending that fit into the theme that we had worked so hard upon.
That through dedication, effort and sacrifice Shepard could influence the galaxy. He could save races or damn them, save his crew or lose them all. I simply did not feel that in the ending, I lost that connection to the galaxy I fought so hard to save or the civilizations I fought to protect. In the end, it simply felt like the Reapers had won after all. Even the best of the endings was pyrrhic; it felt... hopeless.
#4712
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:19
1. Why did Shepard have to die no matter what? A great majority of us were looking for a closure in the love interests and the relationships developed with the crew and all of the random people that Shepard helped/hurt throughout the series. I know they didn't want to be cliche, but at least give us the option. I was pretty upset with the ending personally, but I still enjoyed it. I would've liked at least to see what happened with the rest of the crew, the future of the Krogan, more than just a shot of maskless-Quarian stuff, where Javik would go from there, etc. But what we truly wanted was a happy ending, no matter how cliche. We see Shepard's sacrifice and we want to see his/her life afterwards. The possibilities of life with Miranda, happiness with Thane (also, kinda pissed Thane can't live no matter what on the PS3 version, we don't have a possibility for Kirrahe) and those kinds of things. I hope there might****** be a possibility for an ending DLC in the future or some deus ex machina even, I just want a cliche ending to a great series, or rather, trilogy, as weird as it may seem.
2. Why must we destroy the mass relays? I get that it's supposed to be a powerful signal and that the relays existed solely for the purpose of the whole Reaper cycle thing and they're no longer necessary, but still. They should be able to have it. Hell, even build their own. But that's really just nit-picking. We can still travel FTL and take a few weeks/months to travel around the galaxy and such, but it still prolly pissed off the whole galactic fleet when they can't get back home for a long time.
3. With the endings you all gave us, it wasn't really as diverse as you made it sound. Paragon: Shepard dies, Reapers leave, relays blow up (somehow not taking out every star system like with the Arrival mission, but probably just from the means of destruction), and ???? happens, since there's no explanation of what'll happen between organics and synthetics, since the Crucible says the wars are inevitable. Renegade: Shepard dies, all synthetic and electronic life destroyed (feel free to correct me, I go paragon all the way), people are sad, relays destroyed, Joker pissed, and ????? happens. "Ultimate" choice: Reapers leave, Shepard dies, relays explode, and our DNA gets rewritten...
4. What does that even mean? It said that we would combine synthetics and organics to create different life out of the current life, which I'm guessing is to prevent such a separation of organics and synthetics from existing so that if we create synthetic life, it's the same as us essentially. But I watched the ending and saw the glowy leaves and maybe Joker's arm kinda Reaperish-glowing (?). Was that on purpose? Did the genetic rewrite cause us to essentially be the same kind of life as the Reapers? Can Joker and EDI reproduce? Do the Geth now have DNA? How and why? Magic? The ultimate culmination of the series we were given is not explained at all. Neither is the Crucible. Is he the original race the Reapers are from? Was he the last left behind? Is the Citadel essentially a Reaper? I mean, come on. I get that he manifests as something they're familiar with, but why the kid? What is that thing really? A spirit? An AI like the artificial aliens? So many questions left unanswered.
5. All of the unanswered questions. I want to know what'd happen after he died? Love interests and such...but I've gone on too long.
#4713
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:24
United_Strafes wrote...
Ya I have a question, Why would you make me not want to play any Mass Effect games ever again......EVER?Chris Priestly wrote...
We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.
In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?I was expecting a mediocre game, what I got was a fantastic game that left no stone unturned, that messed up in the last five minutes. 5 years=5min, for most ME fans, I never expected a happy ending but damn, I don't ever want to play.
That goes for me too. I have five more Shepard's I want to play through but the endings just ruined it for me. Why Chris, why?!
#4714
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:25
Writers: So the goal of the conclusion is to give closure and stay true to the series and promises we made about said conclusion right?
Hudson: http://www.youtube.c...?v=y0X0ZYbnHxA
Modifié par Zix13, 17 mars 2012 - 02:26 .
#4715
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:27
AND to those of you that liked the end, don't take the high horse, you are NEW players, you have to be because if you liked it you need to go get some taste seriously, or at least take 5-6 Shepards through ME1 and then ME2 because there is no defense for the end.
#4716
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:28
#4717
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:28
Chris Priestly wrote...
We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.
In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?
Glad to know you are at least speaking to us.
Far as my favortie moment. That is a tough one. However I have to say when Garrus
takes you to that spot on the Citadel. You know, to see who is the
better shot? That part was written very well. I felt like it was
something that my Shepard, and Garrus would do. From ME 1, and up I
would Snipe most of time, and I allowed Garrus to use his as well. So
that one moment for me was perfect. One that I remeber for a long time. I
missed on purpose.
Modifié par Invellous, 17 mars 2012 - 02:30 .
#4718
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:28
#4719
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:30
#4720
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:30
Hold the Line
#4721
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:31
Chronor wrote...
http://social.biowar.../index/10089946
My BS Meter just blew up. I just read "more DLC, more money" in the above Casey Hudson response.
It's worse than that. What he said was:
"We think we did the right thing. We're changing nothing. You can either accept that, and buy our DLC, or go away."
That's the bottom line.
#4722
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:33
Over look the minor bad parts for the big one which people were willing to give you money for, so the series wouldn't be dead to them, they wanted to buy more DLC they wanted more from you....
Like there's only positive reviews and people who loved every part of the game except the end...
Why would I want to save Omega, it's a total excersise in futility, 2 relays (debri not supernova being a problem) and no one around to make use of it after. Same goes for any DLC that doesn't extend or "fix" the current endings.
Now would have been the time to reveal your hand, the plan if there really was one, is already falling to bits, maybe I just thought too much of you, clearly you're to obsessed with "open ended answers" (because that's not a clash of terms....)
Just when I think I'm getting over the anger again you just have to push those buttons don't you.... I don't even..
Modifié par Ricvenart, 17 mars 2012 - 02:37 .
#4723
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:33
Invellous wrote...
Chris Priestly wrote...
We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.
In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?
Glad to know you are at least speaking to us.
Far as my favortie moment. That is a tough one. However I have to say when Garrus
takes you to that spot on the Citadel. You know, to see who is the
better shot? That part was written very well. I felt like it was
something that my Shepard, and Garrus would do. From ME 1, and up I
would Snipe most of time, and I allowed Garrus to use his as well. So
that one moment for me was perfect. One that I remeber for a long time. I
missed on purpose.
Pfft, the entire game was great. HOW could you guys think this was ok? Arstisic vision maybe, but.......DAMN, I NEVER want to play ME again let alone ME3.
#4724
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:35
Now, with all that said, I get to my main points. While I frown upon nickel and diming customers with day one DLC, with the ending as it is, i couldn't care less about such a small issue.
The ending, to put it lightly, was utterly disappointing in a game that was otherwise the greatest installment in a series I have seen to date. 3 choices, 1 you die and reapers live: galaxy's fate unknown, Normandy's fate stranded on a planet shrouded with mystery. 2 you die and reapers fuse with organics?: galaxy's fate unknown, Normandy's fate stranded on a planet shrouded with mystery. 3 1/3 you die, reapers die: galaxy's fate unknown, Normandy explodes. 3 2/3 you die, reapers die: galaxy's fate unknown, Normandy's fate stranded on a planet shrouded with mystery. 3 3/3 reapers die: galaxy's fate unknown, Normandy's fate stranded on a planet shrouded with mystery, and Shepard takes one breath.
All these bloody endings, only one is remotely close to being satisfying but is still an ocean away from being good. And even in the "remotely satisfying" one it looks like you wake up in the rubble after a reaper, what i think was harbinger, laser-ed you and the rest of your peeps up. That's what it looks like to me. So in my mind it's either a hallucination or an attempt in indoctrination. And that in my opinion is just setting up for either: a) a half assed game, or
TLDR: game good, ending bad. money grabbing grey area.
#4725
Guest_maideltq_*
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:36
Guest_maideltq_*
Give good great endings...I would go buy your stuff..I was even planning to go for that freaking xbox controller for my xbox.....nope...not doing even that....it even pains me to see the N7.... DLC contents....My God, It didn't even pained me to get all your DLC's...I was happy about them.....
Reading your books, comics, getting and speculating.........
Please, get it..........get it.........I...myself....will never ever invest in any other future product till you fix your plot holes and do respect what you promised:
Casey Hudson Stated: "This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C"
Yes...we did read you!




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