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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#4776
skingfan19

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bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

 

Thank you for that post. It has taken the words right out of my mouth. Never before have I gotten into any series of games, only to be betrayed. Once again thank you bwFex for the best post I have read since the start of all this mess.

#4777
babachewie

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BWGungan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

domonhearts wrote...

i know people are going to flip out on me,but you know what i liked the game.oh well the game didnt end like you wanted it too,so what ALOT of games dont end the way we want them too,and maybe they wanted the game to end in this way casue there is going to be a mass effect 4.now by making the ending liek it is that would make it easy to set up the stroy for the next game.and even if you dont like what im saying or say im wrong.i dont care i have played all the mass effect games from day out when mass effect 1 came out and you know what.im happy the way it eneded,did some of it confuse me,yes it did.but you know it sill had the mass effect feel to it,was it a messed up ending.yes but show me a war that ends happy good luck were all the people that died come back to life.no in war people dir.and bad things have to happen to end it


So take the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy.  The last movie, one of the final scenses?  Remember that part where Frodo and Sam were siting on the rock above the Lava and you see the giant bird swooping in to save them?  End the movie right there.  Yeap, that's Mass Effect 3's ending.  Great story huh.


I would go so far as to end it when the Tower of Mordor falls, and the earth starts caving in heading towards the humans, then right before you find out what happens, you see Sam running back to the Shire for some reason, and the credits roll.

I'd just like to remind people that LotR was based on a lot on the Great War.


You wanna talk plot holes. If Gandalf had access to the eagles, why didnt he just fly it to the volcano instead of that long ass walk?....Probably cause there would be no movie. Plot holes and inconsistencies can be found in everything. This is why people gotta let this ending thing go. Just enjoy the trilogy for what it was


Probably because they would have been shot down before the Tower of Mordor fell, and the armies or Mordor were routed.  Not sure how you overlooked that blatantly obvious reason.


Probably isnt certainty. Also even if that was true they could of gotten them a lot closer faster than walking

Modifié par babachewie, 17 mars 2012 - 03:36 .


#4778
zigamortis

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Black Acre wrote...

I loved ME3. I also loved the ending. I'm very surprised that so many people had issues with it. Maybe gamers are just too immature to appreciate it.

Gamers are too immature? are you kidding me with that assumption? Are you just one of those people who think that all people who dislike the ending want a "disney" ending? cause quite frankly that is complete and other BS. The reason so many people hate the ending isnt simply because "they cant apretiate it" it is because it goes against the entire premise of the game, And that is your choices matter.For them to go against this basic princable and to limit your choices to three very unsatisfying endings where your choices have very limited effect on the outcome other than minor differences such as color. It also does not provide ANY closure to the story of Shepard and his crew and quite frankly leaves more questions that there was before the ending sequence, and then theres the fact that there seems to be an underlying premise that you might be indoctrinated. Now thats all well and good but for them to just end it there is not only false advertisement it is also unethical busness practice to take your paying customers money in exchange for an unfinnished and broken product.

Modifié par zigamortis, 17 mars 2012 - 03:40 .


#4779
the crazy chikn

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BioWare, you are my favorite game dev. studio, and have been for the past five years.  I loved every minute of the ME1, ME2, and almost all of ME3.  The part I didn't like was the end. 

That being said, the I thought the choices were actually pretty cool, but I found myself looking for that unseen, hidden option that Commander Shepard always found, and I didn't see it.  I mean, the last ten or so minutes didn't feel like Mass Effect.  I did think the choices were interesting, of course, but I had thought there would be plenty more ways to finish the game.  It didn't even feel like the choices I made were worth making in the other two games.  I didn't expect everything to go over perfect at the end of the game, but i did expect...something more.

SPOILER
I kind of always knew my Shep would have to die to save the galaxy, and that sacrifice would make him the ultimate hero.  But, it just seemed like his death would be a betrayal to all those killed by the Reapers, and in the Destroy ending, my Shep basically destroyed some of my allies that I fought so hard to save.  I guess I could get over that.  But now I get to the major thing I disliked.  There is no follow up!  No cut-scene that tells us what happened to all of our crew, allies, or even what came of the choices we made at the end of the game.  As an avid and extremely loyal fan of the series and you, I was expecting a multitude of endings, with the perfect ending being the choice between sacrifice or defeat, and I didn't see that here.  I had at least hoped for a bunch of different cut-scenes, depending on how the entire trilogy was played, that would differ for many players per their in-game experience.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the ending needs work.  Maybe make a special ending for people with a very high paragon level, and another ending for people with high renegade, then tweak the endings to fit how those people played their Shep through the series.  There could also be endings for the people who haven't really committed to one side or the other.  I know people who played like that.  There are a few plot holes in the talk with the catalyst as well, but what I, and countless others, really want is to choose an ending that fits us, without compromising our Shepard's moral views.  Example: My Shep is 100% paragon, and would do anything to save even a single person.  But he would still want the Reapers dead.  Really, any ending makes my character betray his morals in some way, and that took me out of the journey that I have been on for the past 5 years.

I guess ths is a lot of text, but if you could read it, that would be great.  I had to speak my mind.  I tried to be as contructive as possible.  I know you'll make us fans proud BioWare, no matter your decision.

#4780
isaacnewtonisthedeadliest

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daboy042188 wrote...

quick question: do we know for sure how long shepard's conversation on the citadel was? i mean maybe once the fleets delievered the crucible they ran like a dude with his buns on fire since "hey job's done let's not get gutted by the reaper fleet"

normandy might have been in the process of retreating through the Sol relay with the rest of the fleet when the crucible fired and that was why it got dumped on planet heaven


Well for me Cortez ended up going down in the shuttle at the storming of Earth so Joker would have had to gone all the way to ground level Earth evading Reapers to find my squadmates in piles of bodies then mad dashed to the Sol relay.  I just see it as highly unlikely

#4781
wsandista

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Brother Kosh wrote...

Most people here could see that from the outset of Mass Effect 3, the chances of Shepard surviving was slim to none given the threat he was facing.  I don’t think the idea of Shepard dying is what has half of the internet in an uproar but it’s the total lack of anything like closure regarding the universe.

Would I have liked to see my Shepard walk out of the final showdown, casually dust himself off and have his love interest leap into his arms? Sure.  Did I think it was going to happen?  Well I hoped.
 
After at least 100 hours played through Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3, watching characters go from ‘that weird alien guy in the blue suit’ to the bromance that was Garrus and Shep was great. The vast majority of characters from Mass Effect were phonemically wrote and played out, voiced and scripted.  The universe you people a Bioware made was something to be proud of.  It had races that over the course of 3 games we all came to relish hearing about, the Korgan, the Geth, the Quarian and so on.
 
Mass Effect 3 was a biblical game, the action to story balancing was spot on, the set pieces and the movie parts were really moving at times and the journey was, as I think even the most rabid fan would agree, one hell of a great ride.

The ending though will be something Mass Effect is always remembered for.  After I completed Dragon Age: Origins I sat down with a mate and we talked about the game right up to comparing endings and how each character had their own little epilogue.   You heard what happened to each of them after the game and the same could be said for each faction you met along the way and pretty much sorted out their problems and you got a sense of closure so tight when they announced DA2 I have no idea how they would continue on.
 
The ending for Mass Effect feels like regardless if I had brought about galactic peace, screwed over everyone I met or just shot everyone I could have, the endings were the same.  There was no hint as to what happens after the blast, no sense of closure on the races or the squad mates. How did the squad all get back on the Normandy?  Only minutes before they were running behind Shepard and now they’re on some seemingly uncharted jungle world and all seeming pretty casual they just left one of their best friends to die.
 
Bioware can write better stuff than this.  Mass Effect as a series deserves better than this.  After the epic tale of the Reapers and Commander Shepard’s mission to stop them ending it with such a weakly strung together ending is nothing but a blemish on an otherwise legendary series.
 
You don’t need to make a better ending for us (although it wouldn’t go a miss), you need to make a better ending for the game that will be remembered as one of the best Sci-Fi RPG’s of all time.  Don’t let it go out like this.


Hold the line.



I think you read my mind.

#4782
domonhearts

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Omnike wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

domonhearts wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

domonhearts wrote...

i know people are going to flip out on me,but you know what i liked the game.oh well the game didnt end like you wanted it too,so what ALOT of games dont end the way we want them too,and maybe they wanted the game to end in this way casue there is going to be a mass effect 4.now by making the ending liek it is that would make it easy to set up the stroy for the next game.and even if you dont like what im saying or say im wrong.i dont care i have played all the mass effect games from day out when mass effect 1 came out and you know what.im happy the way it eneded,did some of it confuse me,yes it did.but you know it sill had the mass effect feel to it,was it a messed up ending.yes but show me a war that ends happy good luck were all the people that died come back to life.no in war people dir.and bad things have to happen to end it


So take the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy.  The last movie, one of the final scenses?  Remember that part where Frodo and Sam were siting on the rock above the Lava and you see the giant bird swooping in to save them?  End the movie right there.  Yeap, that's Mass Effect 3's ending.  Great story huh.

yes cause the game had a bad ending that means the rest of the game was crap.right? yeah forget the great story until that one part.the end part didnt kill the rest of the game witch was a great story


It completely kills any kind of replayability for the series.  No matter how you play 1-3.9, everything you do is ultimately futile.  That goes for any future prequels too.


This is correct. Nothing can ever be expanded upon in this series with the current ending unless they add a rubble shifting mini game. Prequels mean nothing. Add ons mean nothing. It was the biggest cop out ending I have ever seen, and the biggest weiner face slap I have ever witnessed.

well all i can say is im a real fan i'll replay the game  over and over all cuz the ending wasnt good isnt going to stop me from enjoying what was a good game

#4783
Guest_maideltq_*

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BWGungan wrote...

domonhearts wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

domonhearts wrote...

i know people are going to flip out on me,but you know what i liked the game.oh well the game didnt end like you wanted it too,so what ALOT of games dont end the way we want them too,and maybe they wanted the game to end in this way casue there is going to be a mass effect 4.now by making the ending liek it is that would make it easy to set up the stroy for the next game.and even if you dont like what im saying or say im wrong.i dont care i have played all the mass effect games from day out when mass effect 1 came out and you know what.im happy the way it eneded,did some of it confuse me,yes it did.but you know it sill had the mass effect feel to it,was it a messed up ending.yes but show me a war that ends happy good luck were all the people that died come back to life.no in war people dir.and bad things have to happen to end it


So take the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy.  The last movie, one of the final scenses?  Remember that part where Frodo and Sam were siting on the rock above the Lava and you see the giant bird swooping in to save them?  End the movie right there.  Yeap, that's Mass Effect 3's ending.  Great story huh.

yes cause the game had a bad ending that means the rest of the game was crap.right? yeah forget the great story until that one part.the end part didnt kill the rest of the game witch was a great story


It completely kills any kind of replayability for the series.  No matter how you play 1-3.9, everything you do is ultimately futile.  That goes for any future prequels too.


I agree...
Do you know how many times I Killed shepard in M2...then killed some other people...just to check the deaths...then saved the day in ME2? man!! that was great........great............
Then preparing to ME3.....because man! those decitions would mean the total destruction or the entire galaxy....or save the galaxy ....save earth....and possible.........if I made the right choice....save Shepard....or just kill him is it suited me....

The "heroe has to die" ....NO! GOSH.....i saved even Kelly Chambers and my other crew from the normandy....and not even have that choice....but red, blue, and green...and same outcome still...and galaxy destroyed.....because it seems that nobody puts attention to the plot-holes (the destruction of the relays) what or where was my victory? and why did I needed to go through all the trouble....when doing bare minimun gives me the same outcome...but just happens that it is just "red"..... 

I felt like this guy:  ....firts time I agree with him... 

#4784
DNC_N7

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This is the best post I have read anywhere about how nonsensical this ending is. This pains me MORE than the nonsensical Star Wars novels that literally destroy the entire storyline there. This is worse... I didn't think anyone could have possibly beaten those, but Congratulations BioWare... or is it EA...

Akael_Bayn wrote...

Quick, deflect the topic to something positive!

...yeah, we're not stupid, you know?
Don't give us this "We don't want to spoil things for people who aren't done BS. 

How about a straight answer about where all the many and varied endings we were promised went?



Posted Image

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”



#4785
Togris

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Can someone explain why Anderson is in perfect shape and Shepard on the verge to die, once on the citadel ? Despite the fact that anyone else survived trying to reach the gate.
I mean, too bad the end is full of incoherences ... This exemple is one among others (Why my commando is on the Normandy ? they were with me in London running to the gate ...)
Otherwise, best game ever, I'm a fan since ME1, good job guys.

#4786
PARAGON87

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I understand BioWare that you are listening to our opinions and take
everything that is said on these forums seriously (for those of us that
act that way), and I am providing my serious critique.



But, what
I want to say is that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was disappointing in
many ways, not just because it was cookie-cutter and generic, but
because it did not provide any sort of closure to the story that I have
spent 147 hrs and 39 minutes on.



Three games I have played. 
Through three games I have crafted a unique story, full of outcomes that
only me myself had devised and chose upon.  Then, the ending came, and
my actions, that I had spent so much time unraveling, are thrown out the
window.  Let me explain:



Action: United all spacefaring species to take back Earth and destroy the Reaper threat? 



Ending Consequence:  Well, now they're trapped and can't get back to their own system to rebuild because all the relays have been destroyed.



Action: Created peace to the geth and quarians, so much that the geth are speedilly acclimatizing the quarians to their homeworld?



Ending Consquence: Well,
there since "there can never be any peace between synthetics and
organics" (contrary to the above pre-resolved action), so either
synthetics and the geth must be destroyed or combined (wait, didn't we
already "synthesize" the  post-organic Reaper consciousness into the
geth so they become whole individuals?).  Besides, even if the geth do
survive, they're trapped because I destroyed the mass relays.



Action: Cure the genophage?



Ending Consequence: Again,
with the mass relays gone, krogan are destined to starve via
overpopulation because they can never get off of Tuchanka now.  A "cure"
turned into a precursor to war and extinction, which the krogan were
about to do naturally, anyway.



Action: Bolster the Citadel's defense's so they will be more well-prepared for an attack?



Ending Consquence: The Reapers took it anyway.



Action: Picking any ending?



Ending Consquence:  The Mass Relays are destroyed.  
But wait, for those of us who played Arrival, and have been paying
attention to Shepard's action, isn't it like unleasing a supernova onto a
system, and obliterating everything within it?   So, shouldn't
destroying the mass relays mean we're killing all life in the galaxy? 
Which goes against everything the Reapers were created for?  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]



Action: Saving the rachni in ME1?



Ending Consequence:
Helping construct the Crucible, which then plays into the endgame.  No
fleet (like was hinted in ME2), no part in the endgame, just rachni
workers. 



Action: Bringing your squadmates into battle?



Ending Consquence:
They disappear, and happen to find themselves on the Normandy.  They
didn't even follow you into the Conduit, and just mysteriously
teleported themselves.  Didn't you and them just got hit by the
Reaper's death ray anyway?


Action: Completing the game?

Ending Consquence: Not knowing what happened to: Wrex, Tali, Ashley/Kaidan, Javik, Grunt, Samara, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Cortez, James, Samantha, Major Coats, Diana, et cetera ad infinitum.



Again, these are just some of the things I have thought about that was
seriously wrong with the ending.   I can think of more, but I'm just
tired of typing.



And
yes BioWare, I know the game you have created is an artform, and every part of
the ending is your work of art.

But remember, from the beginning you
have stated that Mass Effect is the player's story.  So then, in turn,
you have handed the brush from yourself, to the player.  



Thus, this becomes our artform, as well.

#4787
OverdrivenI

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 Loved the entire game. Hated the endings. I don't mind Shepard having to die. Hell I would have almost expected it. But give some CLOSURE. It's the most important thing in an epic series (with a hard core fan base). Our choices over 3 games had to matter. They had to be reflected and shown in the ending sequence/movies. Hell even something like DA:O would have worked better than what we got.

#4788
Kelwing

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Ok having finished the game before trying to comment on the endings I have read about.

ME3 for the most part maybe IMHO the best game I have ever played. The tug of emotions in every direction during the game is really a first I have experienced in any game. I sit here trying to think on those endings and well it doesn't work for me. My thoughts mirror nearly everyone else in regards to the endings. They just don't work or in some aspects make any sense in trying to close out Shepards story. Seems to fall apart when Shepard passes out and the platform rises with his body on it. Then he is standing outside the Citidel in space talking to some AI in the form of a child? Your squad somehow ends up on the Normandy when Joker and basic crew were on it? All other squad members were on Earth to fight.

All I really got from those endings was something doesn't seem right with the situation.  I suspect there is more to this story than has been shown.  I hope my thoughts are in the right direction.

#4789
Doronamo

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The_Canadian_Dragon wrote...


So one of the things I liked over the others would be the romance options - Garrus is my favorite. That date at the top of the Presidium was magical, in a way.


Wait-- I did that with Garrus... I THOUGHT THAT WAS A BRO MOMENT, NOT A DATE

/sigh.

On second thought, I thought the final romance sequence with Liara was amazing.

Modifié par Doronamo, 17 mars 2012 - 03:47 .


#4790
Lawliet89

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Extremely disappointed at Hudson's words. Not even close to addressing anything.

#4791
Black_Acre

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BWGungan wrote...

Black_Acre wrote...

I loved ME3. I also loved the ending. I'm very surprised that so many people had issues with it. Maybe gamers are just too immature to appreciate it.


Appreciate what?  Having every decision you as a player ever made in all three games be tossed out the airlock in the last 10 minutes of the trilogy?

Or how about the part where you're forced to cause a galactic extinction in every ending from chain supernova mass relay explosions? 

Those endings permanently kill the IP.  It is no longer the world people fell in love with throughout the trilogy, and no amount of prequels will make you forget that you wiped everyone you were trying to save.

Yeah, we're immature... that's the problem.



Casey Hudson said there were something like 1000 different variables being tracked in ME3. You were expected different outcomes for each? 

I choose the synthesis ending and there was no "galatic extinction." It was obvious to me that relay explosions weren't killing, but instead changing things in their wake.

The ended was final... I suppose that is what I wanted out of an ending....

#4792
Anxarcule

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While you are listening I might as well repost myself. These are some reasons I think the ending is horrible:

The whole child-god scene is an affront to logic. I tried to be funny about it here http://social.biowar...16/1033#9902933, but looking, for example, at the synthesis ending seriously:


- Shepard finds what looks like an AI in the middle of the Reaper controlled Citadel.

- Said AI confesses to commanding the Reapers. The same Reapers that have never been above deceit.

- Shepard is offered to sacrifice his life so that his "energy" is used to change the "DNA" of all organic and synthetic organisms in the Galaxy. I don't know about your Shepard, but this would have been a little bit beyond what mine would have considered feasible.

- Synthesis is presented as the ultimate solution because if everything is half organic and half synthetic (IE. the same) then there will be peace.
Really???? Humans kill humans, Turians kill Turians, Krogans kill Krogans, and on the synthetic side Geth kill Geth (possible outcome of Legion's loyalty mission in ME2 is wiping out the Heretics, at his behest mind you). How on earth is being spliced into an organic/synthetic abomination going to ensure peace?
On top of that, what is going to stop this new spliced races from eventually creating a new synthetic life form and ending up with the same problem.


So, to sum up, we have an untrustworthy child-thing asking Shepard to give his life in exchange for affecting the galaxy in a way that is incredibly hard to believe, in order to attain a promised peace that doesn't resist the most cursory analysis.

Shepard would have to be beyond gullible to just jump into that energy pillar, he would have to be plain stupid.


Similar analysis can be done to the control choice. I mean, what guarantee does Shepard have that anything beyond being burnt to ashes would come out of grabbing those very deadly looking handles.
I think a little bit more than a child's countenance is required to trust someone enough to give up your life in exchange for a promise.


While on the topic of sacrifice, another thing that really bothers me is that someone at BioWare decided to be moralizing but didn't bother to back it up with narrative. That is; they decided that wanting Shepard to live is "selfish" so it had to be done at the expense of the Geth and, more importantly, EDI.

In contrast, they provided the option of being selfless, killing Shepard but sparring his allies and friend. The problem with this, again, is that the need for Shepard to die is not framed by the narrative, what reason beyond the god-child's whim (Control) or the need for his "energy" (Synthesis) are given?

Kaidan/Ashley's death made sense, you could not save them both before the bomb went off. Mordin was the only one that could "get it right". Thane was already terminally ill when you first met him.

How can a company that managed to make these deaths work, think that it is acceptable to justify the need for Shepard's death with: "So sayeth the god-child"?


I hope that there is some ending DLC coming, but it better modify the game before we kill Marauder Shields because I can suspend my disbelief, but I find it hard to suspend logic to the degree that our current "god" demands.

Again, sorry for the rant/wall of text.

#4793
BWGungan

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babachewie wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

domonhearts wrote...

i know people are going to flip out on me,but you know what i liked the game.oh well the game didnt end like you wanted it too,so what ALOT of games dont end the way we want them too,and maybe they wanted the game to end in this way casue there is going to be a mass effect 4.now by making the ending liek it is that would make it easy to set up the stroy for the next game.and even if you dont like what im saying or say im wrong.i dont care i have played all the mass effect games from day out when mass effect 1 came out and you know what.im happy the way it eneded,did some of it confuse me,yes it did.but you know it sill had the mass effect feel to it,was it a messed up ending.yes but show me a war that ends happy good luck were all the people that died come back to life.no in war people dir.and bad things have to happen to end it


So take the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy.  The last movie, one of the final scenses?  Remember that part where Frodo and Sam were siting on the rock above the Lava and you see the giant bird swooping in to save them?  End the movie right there.  Yeap, that's Mass Effect 3's ending.  Great story huh.


I would go so far as to end it when the Tower of Mordor falls, and the earth starts caving in heading towards the humans, then right before you find out what happens, you see Sam running back to the Shire for some reason, and the credits roll.

I'd just like to remind people that LotR was based on a lot on the Great War.


You wanna talk plot holes. If Gandalf had access to the eagles, why didnt he just fly it to the volcano instead of that long ass walk?....Probably cause there would be no movie. Plot holes and inconsistencies can be found in everything. This is why people gotta let this ending thing go. Just enjoy the trilogy for what it was


Probably because they would have been shot down before the Tower of Mordor fell, and the armies or Mordor were routed.  Not sure how you overlooked that blatantly obvious reason.


Probably isnt certainty. Also even if that was true they could of gotten them a lot closer faster than walking


 
Sure, it would have been faster, but it also would have been a different story altogether and probably wouldn't have dealt with a lot of the themes it does now.

ME has its own themes, choice and consequence, victory through unity, among other things, and discards them all in the final 10 minutes, along with everything the player achieved in the first 99% of the series.  It doesn't matter if you saved the Krogans, the Geth and the Quarians because they don't contribute at all to the ending.  It doesn't even matter if you wiped them all out.  The ending is still the same.

Modifié par BWGungan, 17 mars 2012 - 03:47 .


#4794
AJ2324

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The Indoctrination theory:

Best option hands down.

Why?

1. Makes sense with current illogical ending (like a dream).
2. Already easily woven into the story with events that are supported in ME series.
3. Allows for flexible, epic resolute closure.
4. Deepens the story, makes it even more rich with a smart twist to make it even more memorable.

Modifié par AJ2324, 17 mars 2012 - 03:47 .


#4795
Black_Acre

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maideltq wrote...

Black_Acre wrote...

I loved ME3. I also loved the ending. I'm very surprised that so many people had issues with it. Maybe gamers are just too immature to appreciate it.




You said it "ending"......not "endingS" 
If you do appreciate suicide and Martyr...stay with that flavor...............come on! go through all that !@#@!$ to not even have a resolving end........................I do like cheese........man....I was expecting that the cheese one would be hard to get............but ...............complete destruction!!?? 


I'm glad that a game had the balls to forgo the "happy ending." Its about time that we as gamers quit trying to "save the princess" and allow ourselves to be exposed to different ideas.

Modifié par Black_Acre, 17 mars 2012 - 03:48 .


#4796
Velocithon

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DNC_N7 wrote...

This is the best post I have read anywhere about how nonsensical this ending is. This pains me MORE than the nonsensical Star Wars novels that literally destroy the entire storyline there. This is worse... I didn't think anyone could have possibly beaten those, but Congratulations BioWare... or is it EA...

Akael_Bayn wrote...

Quick, deflect the topic to something positive!

...yeah, we're not stupid, you know?
Don't give us this "We don't want to spoil things for people who aren't done BS. 

How about a straight answer about where all the many and varied endings we were promised went?



Posted Image

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”


My god...He really said that? And the ending we got...

Anger level increased x10.

#4797
BUNJI12

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My favorite moment was the ending. I will never forget how the ending(s) did not appreciate shepard's (the gamer) decisions at all. Bioware needs to let Garrus make some calibrations.

My video game collection is small because I find most games not worth my money, and out of nowhere one of my most favorite games does not deliver the decision-based endings we all deserved. This must be fixed somehow.

#4798
rabidm0ng0ose

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Everything regarding the ending makes some what sense, but is completely unwarranted. However there is one thing still eating at me. What happened to my crew? Especially the two I brought with me to the final fight, Javik and Garrus, After the Normandy Crash Liara, Javik, and Joker appeared. THAT'S IT.Where is everyone else? I chose the Destroy ending so I can understand EDI being gone but I highly doubt that this is the case.

#4799
BWGungan

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domonhearts wrote...

Omnike wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

domonhearts wrote...

Mocchi wrote...

domonhearts wrote...
*snip*


well all i can say is im a real fan i'll replay the game  over and over all cuz the ending wasnt good isnt going to stop me from enjoying what was a good game


ME was my #1 all time favourite series of all time, in any medium.  Until this.  I've since stopped gushing about it to anybody who would listen.  The world they created was so well crafted that I couldn't get enough of it.  Now there's just an empty hole where that affection used to be.

Why would you play a game about choice and consequence when you already know all choices lead to the same ending?

Modifié par BWGungan, 17 mars 2012 - 03:55 .


#4800
Omnike

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Black_Acre wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Black_Acre wrote...

I loved ME3. I also loved the ending. I'm very surprised that so many people had issues with it. Maybe gamers are just too immature to appreciate it.


Appreciate what?  Having every decision you as a player ever made in all three games be tossed out the airlock in the last 10 minutes of the trilogy?

Or how about the part where you're forced to cause a galactic extinction in every ending from chain supernova mass relay explosions? 

Those endings permanently kill the IP.  It is no longer the world people fell in love with throughout the trilogy, and no amount of prequels will make you forget that you wiped everyone you were trying to save.

Yeah, we're immature... that's the problem.



Casey Hudson said there were something like 1000 different variables being tracked in ME3. You were expected different outcomes for each? 

I choose the synthesis ending and there was no "galatic extinction." It was obvious to me that relay explosions weren't killing, but instead changing things in their wake.

The ended was final... I suppose that is what I wanted out of an ending....



But it wasn't. Nothing was final. Almost everything about the ending was open. No closure. There's no ending without closure, otherwise it didn't end.