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[ed87]

Chris Priestly wrote...


In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

It would appear the wounds inflicted by the ending are still too fresh for this. For example, if i ruined a party by destroying the DJ set, i wouldnt ask people the next day what my greatest moments at the party were. I would make my apologies first

[MedivalJ]

Chris Priestly wrote...

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

Throughout playing Mass Effect 3 I relatively enjoyed the gameplay, story, and locations(planets, stations, ships, etc...) which it all takes place.  I have been a fan of this franchise since I first purchased Mass Effect 1 in late 2007.  The qualities I found so compelling about Mass Effect were the story line, the overall gameplay,  the relationships formed between the characters over the stories progression, and how the players choices effect the overall progression of the games storyline from beginning to end.  This has been the case with Mass Effect 1 and 2, both of which have been thoroughly enjoyable.  Everything was connected, made since and progressed towards a "player" specified ending with the lines between good, bad, or neutral.  However, the case with Mass Effect 3 has taken a turn within the series that alienates it from the player oriented control within the other games.
The problems associated with this games ending most specifically are:

1) The endings are Identical.  The previous mass effects had a different ending for which ever path the player chose.  These endings were also determined by the choices which the players made over the course of the game from beginning to end.

2) Player choice has been removed for the most part. The resulting end within Mass Effect 3 is the same regardless of what choices are made by the players over the course of the game.

3) The choices made in the previous games tend to have little, if any, impact of the stories progression to ending.  The story is set to have the same final confrontation with the transparent child/VI (I.E. The Catalyst) and forces the player to make a decision that is a) not beneficial to the characters within the game or story and  goes against the roots for which the games story first established.  If I may simply state from reading some of the forums on this issue the game was founded on the idea of placing the concept of "freewill" within the players hands.  From the previous games the idea was that the choices made by the player (I.E "Freewill", not fate) during the main story, even in side stories, were what determined the games overall ending.  The three choices at the games end in my opinion, and I'm sure most other people who play the game, do not reflect this notion that the players progressive choices determine the games ending but, relays a fatalistic notion that the choices the player makes are irrelevant to the stories overall conclusion.

4) As said above the endings all identical with little variation.  The character still dies and the galaxy is left in utter turmoil.  There is no room for the player to feel as though his/her efforts towards completing the game was worth their time and instead it ,as has been stated by others, makes the player question whether he wants to play the game through again to try for a different outcome. 

5)Now, on to the point leading up to The Catalyst.  The final battle progression is understandable up to the part with the beam and harbinger arriving to stop the marines advance to the portal.  Also, it is understandable that the Illusive Mans presence would be at the final battle as well.  However, the child from the beginning and in Shepard's dreams appearing as the catalyst makes little to no since in terms of the overall story.  It is understandable the child represents, at the beginning, a casualty that affects the character(Shepard) to give him/her more relatable human response to war of a great magnitude.  Though, the child's presence at the end causes confusion and plays against the story up to that point. 

6) On another note what happened to harbinger?  After, the main character is shot Harbinger just flies away.  There is no final battle, no final epic fight to the death, might against might.  In fact the Harbinger acts more as a character in the background that plays little significance to the story.  The reaper Harbinger, from the end of mass Effect 2 into part of the way through 3, is depicted to be the ultimate foe, the leader and oldest of the reapers.  Yet, the story changes at the end and all of a sudden is not the case.  The focus from harbinger is suddenly shifted to the Illusive Man and the child which appears only in the ending as a character of significant meaning to the stories conclusion. 

 7)Finally, and this is towards the quote that has been included in this comment.  Wasn't the point of the final installment to this series to conclude and answer the questions left by the previous games instead of creating new ones?  New questions such as:
Why does this kid reappear in the story just to offer a single sided solution that does not solve the problem of the reapers as much it does to appease it? 
Why make choices that affect the outcome of various small conflicts when the overall outcome is the same regardless of choices made?
Wasn't the point of the game supposed to end the conflict of the reapers through a battle that single handedly destroyed them saving the diverse species of the galaxy?  Not reach a conclusion that wiped out the entire galaxy and appeased to the reapers destructive interests?

In conclusion Mass Effect 3 has had all the makings of a great game.  In fact I would go as far as saying it has the makings of an epic game.  However, if the story is to be coupled with the progress made from past games it must reflect that.  Also, it must conclude and function the same as the previous games before it, in terms of story.  The ability to make choices which affect the games end result is one of the key reasons Mass Effect has been so successful and fun for other gamers.  It allows gamers to choose how they want their story to end, instead of follow a "set" story with a "set" ending that guarantees the same end result each playthrough.  Also, the story for this game should have been to summarize and possibly answer questions from previous games as well as prepare for a "go out with a bang" ending, or endings. 

Modifié par MedivalJ, 17 mars 2012 - 04:48 .

[BWGungan]

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



]Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

I don't know. He's the catalyst. Thats what he said. I didnt really trust him. Thats why I chose destroy. My Shepard didnt break character. Probably what he would of done. 

There was no way to shut the reapers down? It had been established that they have unique codes that run the reapers. And why to the mass relays get destroyed in EVERY ending? Why is every ending exactly the same? If this is Bioware's plan all along, why did they say this is exactly what wouldn't happen? This is much bigger scale than Peter Molyneux. You don't build up three games just to yank the entire build up of them out at the last minute.

It happened because thats how it was suppose ot happen. The galaxy is at war and people were dying as shepard wasted time. He had 3 choices. Had to go with his gut. The mass relays were used as a way to channel the energy fromt he crucible to all the systems and it over loaded them. Plus if they are gonna start a new trilogy with a new canon they can't have 30 completely different endings to have to choose from the last one. People will just be complaining they picked the wrong one. They had to make them different but sorta the same. 

They've said before that there is no ME canon.  The story is what the player does.  And even if they have to pick one possible outcome to be the real canon, it doesn't matter, that's what they did with KOTOR and it's perfectly fine.

They also said they aren't going to make another ME game that takes place after ME3. 

Doesn't matter though, if these endings are real, I'm not getting another ME game because I was forced to destroy the finely crafted world I had grown to love over 5 years in the most ill conceived  way imaginable.

Modifié par BWGungan, 17 mars 2012 - 05:27 .

[Omnike]

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



]Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

I don't know. He's the catalyst. Thats what he said. I didnt really trust him. Thats why I chose destroy. My Shepard didnt break character. Probably what he would of done. 

There was no way to shut the reapers down? It had been established that they have unique codes that run the reapers. And why to the mass relays get destroyed in EVERY ending? Why is every ending exactly the same? If this is Bioware's plan all along, why did they say this is exactly what wouldn't happen? This is much bigger scale than Peter Molyneux. You don't build up three games just to yank the entire build up of them out at the last minute.

It happened because thats how it was suppose ot happen. The galaxy is at war and people were dying as shepard wasted time. He had 3 choices. Had to go with his gut. The mass relays were used as a way to channel the energy fromt he crucible to all the systems and it over loaded them. Plus if they are gonna start a new trilogy with a new canon they can't have 30 completely different endings to have to choose from the last one. People will just be complaining they picked the wrong one. They had to make them different but sorta the same. 

I still haven't got an explanation as to why they said that that won't be the way any of it plays out. Because they said that the conclusion will be built on the decisions you made. The website even said that after the game came out.

[skingfan19]

Here is one thing I have not seen mentioned that I was wondering about, the people on the Citadel? Was there not supposed to be like 15 million or so people on that place? I mean all of those refugees were there and then the entire thing just gets moved to the earth and then blows up. What happened to them, did they evacuate? Or did they all just up and die? Did they all get turned into reaper food or something?

Look Bioware, I want to like you again. I want to enjoy your games again. I want to play through all of Mass Effect again. I would love to do an entire epic 1-3 play through, but as it stands I can't, I just can't bring myself to. Why replay it all when I know that nothing truly matters? As others have stated, I was prepared to have my Shepard die, not eagerly but was prepared for it to happen. But it was supposed to mean something. I feel like I just rolled over and said sure I will die at the end. I know that my Shepard would have never settled for that. He would have broken free of whatever mind tricks were getting played on him.

People may say that we are being "entitled gamers" but you know what, we are entitled to have endings that fit with the universe we have spent years with. The endings as they are left me not with a feeling of loss or any other emotion other than, "What the hell was that?!?" This is not how I expected to feel after playing it. Hell looking at all the stuff put out by Bioware leading up to the release and them talking about all the different endings and how everything will matter it was just so far from what it could and more importantly should have been.

Bioware, you should look at this outrage as proof that you have created what is simply the best sci-fi universe of this generation, if it wasn't people would not be this vocal about it. We feel robbed and betrayed by the endings that are in place. If you are truly listening then fix this. People have already done a large portion of the work by crafting the indoctrination option. You could use this and go in so many directions while staying true to the series and universe you have created. I loved the game (except the endings), the interactions between the crew was simply the best I have ever seen done, the sacrifices, like Mordin, were done masterfully, my emotions were on the best rollercoaster ever. I have been playing games since the Commodore 64 era, and never before have a series of games resonate with me so much. I have laughed and cried and everything in between. This is why it was such a blow to have it end like that. So Bioware, do what you know is right and fix this and give this trilogy the ending it deserves.

As for specific ideas, I'm sure it has been posted before but here are some anyways:
http://arkis.deviant...ILERS-289902125
and another one:
http://social.biowar...2&poll_id=29101

[EmEr77]

 Here's the bitter awesome truth:

There's probably a truck load of inner office politics that we, as responsible consumers (NOT entitled gamers) have no control over. 


Now that that's out of the way, I begin.


In your basic construction of a story you have what is called placement, displacement, and replacement. 

Placement is the action of establishing the foundation, i.e., characters, place, time, setting, etc. The placement is supposed to give the audience an idea of what kind of story they are going to be expecting, and how to approach it. In the case of Mass Effect: Science Fiction. The placement of the story is the very spring board from which the rest of the tale launches, and lays crucial groundwork that remains consistent throughout the telling of the story. 

Displacement is the bulk of the story itself. The "rising action." During the phase of displacement you have the actual plot. You have action, dialogue--basically all the necessities that propel a story forward. There is a sense of the established and so an introduction of new information is given. However, it is ESPECIALLY important that details laid out in the placement phase of the story are not diverted from, but utilized in unique creative ways while in keeping with the structure.


Replacement is the conclusion of the story. This includes all facets of a resolutionary stage, such as climax, falling action, and... of course, the ending. It is highly critical in the replacement stage of story telling that it is in KEEPING with the information that came before it--that all "surprises" are not really surprises, but can be found by looking back through the story itself in creatively threaded details that all come together during the resolution to give the story a semblence of sense. 


Mass Effect 3 had no issues as far as placement and displacement, it was in the replacement stage where everything became muddled. It looked like a replacement phase for an entirely different story. The issue is not that the ending was "bad," although that is unfortunately the outcome of such a confusing and odd choice for a resolution, it's that it just did not seem to belong. BioWare can still surprise us, but keep to a structure that makes perfect sense to the rest of the story. The reason why gamers are up in arms about the ending is not because it's over our heads, it's not because it's "not to our liking" but it's because, it does not fit well. It simply is an ending to a completely different story line--in other words, one where the actions and decision of Shepard, or even the situations that Shepard would find himself getting into would all have a definitive culmination in what we actually got.


Why "indoctrination" is a cheap answer to a big problem:
- If the Reapers are ancient beings whose advancements are beyond anything any organic or synthetic species could ever imagine, then why, if Harbinger lays out Shepard and has every opportunity to finish him off, does it not do so? Why choose to go the route of "indoctrination" that could potentially end up in Shepard resisting and therefore breaking free, when it has Shepard all mangled and ready for a final blow right there in front of it? 

-Thus we come to the ending where Shepard takes a gulp of air in the final half second before the credits. If that is the "good" ending, then here are the facts as BioWare would apparently have them, should we choose to accept the idea of "indoctrination:" Shepard wakes up, in the middle of the still ongoing battle. When Harbinger backhanded Shepard the battle was still going on, correct? Therefore, should we choose to believe that the clumsy ending was all boiling down to "and then he woke up..." then this game, which was a promised completion of the story, is not a completion AT ALL, because the battle is STILL GOING. This was a game that was promised to bring a resolution to the war--but in the only "good" ending, there is no concrete resolution. As for the other two endings, should we choose to believe in the indoctrination route, then with Shepard's dissolution into nothing, there is still no resolution, however it is far more abstract, and altogether more infuriating than thought provoking. Well, it is thought provoking--in an infuriating manner.

A resolution should be an answer--not a question. That definition is not up for debate.

As the game stands right now, should BioWare choose to acknowledge the "indoctrination" course as being the correct one, then it stands to reason that the very support for it is flimsy at best. The evidence is merely speculative, and only guesses can be made by the community as we try to piece together what MIGHT be support for this theory. Again, a conclusion is supported by solid foundation, and the game's solid foundation points to a completely different direction than what we were given. 

Another fun fact: 

-The time spent by the gamers is negligble compared to the hours of labor by the BioWare crew themselves. So aside from the fact that the gaming community feels cheated, and rightfully so, the BioWare team should feel equally as ripped off. This is because all of the hard work they've put into crafting a beautiful and intricate story line, all the time spent piecing together things all the way back from the first game, all of the time programming, all of the time spent by the voice actors in the studio, is made out to mean absolutely nothing when put side by side with the game's ending. The game's ending is truly a slap in the face of the BioWare team who worked their asses off to create a game that tripped at the finish line. Tripped at the finish line. Tripped. At. The. Finish. Line.  


So... replacement. Replacement happened--but it was the replacement phase to a completely different story. The bottom line is, all of the "theories" flying around the Internet about the ending of this game should not be theories. At this juncture, they should be ANSWERS. A properly ended story does not prompt the audience to grasp at straws, searching for answers to their frustrated questions. A properly ended story has all of the evidence within the story itself to support answers to theories created BEFORE the ending. Thoughtfulness comes from the preponderance of "oh so that's how that tied into that..." not "this MAY be the reason why this is like this..." 

Also, if this many people are finding dislike with that was given to them, then there is a high probability that something is wrong with the GAME, and not with the people. 


How this will be answered:

-DLC will probably be released as a bandaid to the broken bone that is this ending. BioWare will probably not want to charge for it, but EA will say "no too bad you have to." And we'll buy it because... we need it. That's how that goes. All we can hope for is that the DLC created will actually be some sort of a fix.  

-It won't be answered. You can't unring a bell. All further DLC from here on out will be like Mass Effect 2 in which it doesn't really effect the overall story line as much as it just gives us some more interesting gameplay. 

Modifié par EmEr77, 17 mars 2012 - 05:54 .

[jeweledleah]

lasertank wrote...

I belived that most of us enjoyed the series of the Matrix. Although in the end of the Matrix: Revolution there are still tons of questions left unanswered, audiences are still satisfied with the ending. Neo sacrificed himself to earn the peace between humans and machines. No definitive epilogue for other characters. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? In the picture of the Final Hour app, we've got concrete evidence that writers of ME3 are influenced by the Matrix. They want to give us a bittersweet ending just like the Matrix did. So, what's wrong with ME3?

actualy - for a lot of people Matrix sequels simply do not exist.  the continuity ends with 1.

and while I personaly didn't mind Matrix revolution, I hated the way they handles Neo's and Trinity's (especialy Trinity's death)  the whole point was him defying destiny and there she is... being Jossed becasue she wasn't "destined" to live.  >_>

lastly.  Matrix is a movie.  it is a story told to us without requiring our participation.  we do not get to define Neo, make choices for him.  we do not get to pick out who his friends are, we don't get to decide if he falls in love with Trinity or Morpheus or no one at all.  we are observers.

Mass Effect?  we were supposed to be participants.  we were given an opportunity to define both our Shepards, and how their individual story unfolds, even within the framework of overall story.

and in the last 5 minutes, despite promises to the contrary?  it was taken away from us.  I do think that they were going for a Matrix feel.  I beleive they should have gone for "Star Trek: First Contact" instead.  Shepard was always more like Picard then Neo.

[babachewie]

BWGungan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



]Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

I don't know. He's the catalyst. Thats what he said. I didnt really trust him. Thats why I chose destroy. My Shepard didnt break character. Probably what he would of done. 

There was no way to shut the reapers down? It had been established that they have unique codes that run the reapers. And why to the mass relays get destroyed in EVERY ending? Why is every ending exactly the same? If this is Bioware's plan all along, why did they say this is exactly what wouldn't happen? This is much bigger scale than Peter Molyneux. You don't build up three games just to yank the entire build up of them out at the last minute.

It happened because thats how it was suppose ot happen. The galaxy is at war and people were dying as shepard wasted time. He had 3 choices. Had to go with his gut. The mass relays were used as a way to channel the energy fromt he crucible to all the systems and it over loaded them. Plus if they are gonna start a new trilogy with a new canon they can't have 30 completely different endings to have to choose from the last one. People will just be complaining they picked the wrong one. They had to make them different but sorta the same. 

They've said before that there is no ME canon.  The story is what the player does.  And even if they have to pick one possible outcome to be the real canon, it doesn't matter, that's what they did with KOTOR and it's perfectly fine.

They also said they aren't going to make another ME game that takes place after ME3. 

Doesn't matter though, if these endings are real, I'm not getting another ME game because I'm forced to destroy the finely crafted world I had grown to love over 5 years.

Bioware says a lot of things. Like we arent working on MP. They aren't gonna tell us or anyone else anything unless they are ready too. No amount of angry protest is gonna change that. I figured if most have been following them through out the years they would of figured that out by now. I can almost guarantee ME4. Its to popular not to Continue. This one has already sold  over 3 million. 

[Ravax]

I would love this to be one of the possible endings: you wake up from indoctrination (after having picked destroy, as this is the 'refusal' of indoctrination, then JOKER swoops all heroic in and blows a 10meter hole on the side of Harbinger, and you realize what happened, get a surge of adrenaline, and rush INSIDE harbinger, wreak havoc on him from within fighting hoards of reaper husks, and ultimately on a final platform, as a final boss, you see that harbinger 'assumed control' of one of your squadmates (effect for drama), then beath the boss, head on to the 'control center' and rip out his big red eyes from inside, assume control of him, fly him up to the crucible, and hook him up to the crucible/citadel, and finally kill him, which ultimately sends a 'death' signal to all reapers (as he is connected to them being the leader, etc...) and they all die, and then you jump from the explosion with your helmet on, and EDI is on the launching bay door of the Normandy, and pulls you in the ship.. followed by la-di-da happy ending smooching and celebrating all over the galaxy....

[Rom22]

Hi Chris,

I want to tell you that I loved nearly all of Mass Effect 3. The combat was great, multiplayer is engaging, and despite the dearth of Paragon/Renegade decision-making, still had one of the best stories in all of gaming. The way the Krogan and Quarian missions ended broke my heart. Even the final conversation with TIM at the Citadel is great. I could've lived with the game ending as Shepard and Anderson, both dying, took one last look at Earth, content that they've saved it. That was bittersweet, and while sad, it was satisfying. I was fully invested, emotionally speaking, up until this point.

So I hope you understand my hatred for the ending. In the same game where my decisions gave me a compelling story, whether it was good or bad, we have an ending that was totally disconnected from the rest of the game. It disregarded everything up till that point. More importantly, it disregarded the entire Quarian mission! How could this ending be a part of the same awesome game I was just playing moments before?

Look, I understand you wanted to highlight singularity and the organics vs synthetics argument, but that was already masterfully handled during the end of the Quarian mission, and in a way that tied in with previous canon. Why couldn't this be carried over to the ending? Why, after all we've done, would we be forced to make this A, B or C choice? And why, of all things, must we be stuck with an ending that closely mirrors that of Matrix Reload and Matrix Revolutions?

All I'm asking for – and I believe this is what everyone else wants – is an ending that feels like it was part of the story; one that factors in our key decisions, and not just based on our Effective Military Strength. By all means, make it bittersweet as you want; hell, it can be just as depressing as the endings to the Krogan and Quarian missions. In fact, whoever wrote those missions? Make them write the new ending.

[babachewie]

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



]Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

I don't know. He's the catalyst. Thats what he said. I didnt really trust him. Thats why I chose destroy. My Shepard didnt break character. Probably what he would of done. 

There was no way to shut the reapers down? It had been established that they have unique codes that run the reapers. And why to the mass relays get destroyed in EVERY ending? Why is every ending exactly the same? If this is Bioware's plan all along, why did they say this is exactly what wouldn't happen? This is much bigger scale than Peter Molyneux. You don't build up three games just to yank the entire build up of them out at the last minute.

It happened because thats how it was suppose ot happen. The galaxy is at war and people were dying as shepard wasted time. He had 3 choices. Had to go with his gut. The mass relays were used as a way to channel the energy fromt he crucible to all the systems and it over loaded them. Plus if they are gonna start a new trilogy with a new canon they can't have 30 completely different endings to have to choose from the last one. People will just be complaining they picked the wrong one. They had to make them different but sorta the same. 

I still haven't got an explanation as to why they said that that won't be the way any of it plays out. Because they said that the conclusion will be built on the decisions you made. The website even said that after the game came out.

It kinda was. Just not the last decision. Also the EMS rating matters to. If you play the ending with a low compared to a high. It can different. Earth is oblitereated no matter what you choose if its real low. Also some people die or survive based on it. It subtle I'll give you that but there are differences 

[MartinPenwald]

My favourite Shepard moment was when the Commander finally told Liara "I love you."

Too bad that the ending ruined that again.

[Omnike]

babachewie wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



]Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

I don't know. He's the catalyst. Thats what he said. I didnt really trust him. Thats why I chose destroy. My Shepard didnt break character. Probably what he would of done. 

There was no way to shut the reapers down? It had been established that they have unique codes that run the reapers. And why to the mass relays get destroyed in EVERY ending? Why is every ending exactly the same? If this is Bioware's plan all along, why did they say this is exactly what wouldn't happen? This is much bigger scale than Peter Molyneux. You don't build up three games just to yank the entire build up of them out at the last minute.

It happened because thats how it was suppose ot happen. The galaxy is at war and people were dying as shepard wasted time. He had 3 choices. Had to go with his gut. The mass relays were used as a way to channel the energy fromt he crucible to all the systems and it over loaded them. Plus if they are gonna start a new trilogy with a new canon they can't have 30 completely different endings to have to choose from the last one. People will just be complaining they picked the wrong one. They had to make them different but sorta the same. 

They've said before that there is no ME canon.  The story is what the player does.  And even if they have to pick one possible outcome to be the real canon, it doesn't matter, that's what they did with KOTOR and it's perfectly fine.

They also said they aren't going to make another ME game that takes place after ME3. 

Doesn't matter though, if these endings are real, I'm not getting another ME game because I'm forced to destroy the finely crafted world I had grown to love over 5 years.

Bioware says a lot of things. Like we arent working on MP. They aren't gonna tell us or anyone else anything unless they are ready too. No amount of angry protest is gonna change that. I figured if most have been following them through out the years they would of figured that out by now. I can almost guarantee ME4. Its to popular not to Continue. This one has already sold  over 3 million. 

Why risk an angry mob of pissed off fans? I know a large chunk have decided to boycott Bioware until it's fixed. It was a terrible idea that did nothing but blow up in their face.

[Doug M]

I've really been hoping that everything that's happened with the current endings was a huge meta-game player immersion experience, where we feel the determination to fight against an outcome that we find unacceptable, just like how Shepard would.

But after reading Casey Hudson's remarks...
http://social.biowar.../index/10089946

Besides being a bunch of PR stuff, it really disheartens me to think that what's on the disc was really all BioWare had planned. That they didn't think to do anything else with the ending.

Hell, part of me is still hoping that the PR damage control stuff we're getting is just there to buy BioWare more time while more people complete the game, at which point BioWare releases the real ending.

At this point, if Hudson's message was just PR doublespeak, then I'd like a straight answer one way or the other. Were the endings that are on the disc really all that BioWare had planned? Or is this part of a planned larger meta-game experience? If Hudson's message is the straight answer and what we have is all that was planned, then I'm incredibly disappointed. There was so much potential with this.

[babachewie]

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



]Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

I don't know. He's the catalyst. Thats what he said. I didnt really trust him. Thats why I chose destroy. My Shepard didnt break character. Probably what he would of done. 

There was no way to shut the reapers down? It had been established that they have unique codes that run the reapers. And why to the mass relays get destroyed in EVERY ending? Why is every ending exactly the same? If this is Bioware's plan all along, why did they say this is exactly what wouldn't happen? This is much bigger scale than Peter Molyneux. You don't build up three games just to yank the entire build up of them out at the last minute.

It happened because thats how it was suppose ot happen. The galaxy is at war and people were dying as shepard wasted time. He had 3 choices. Had to go with his gut. The mass relays were used as a way to channel the energy fromt he crucible to all the systems and it over loaded them. Plus if they are gonna start a new trilogy with a new canon they can't have 30 completely different endings to have to choose from the last one. People will just be complaining they picked the wrong one. They had to make them different but sorta the same. 

They've said before that there is no ME canon.  The story is what the player does.  And even if they have to pick one possible outcome to be the real canon, it doesn't matter, that's what they did with KOTOR and it's perfectly fine.

They also said they aren't going to make another ME game that takes place after ME3. 

Doesn't matter though, if these endings are real, I'm not getting another ME game because I'm forced to destroy the finely crafted world I had grown to love over 5 years.

Bioware says a lot of things. Like we arent working on MP. They aren't gonna tell us or anyone else anything unless they are ready too. No amount of angry protest is gonna change that. I figured if most have been following them through out the years they would of figured that out by now. I can almost guarantee ME4. Its to popular not to Continue. This one has already sold  over 3 million. 

Why risk an angry mob of pissed off fans? I know a large chunk have decided to boycott Bioware until it's fixed. It was a terrible idea that did nothing but blow up in their face.

 Developers gain and lose fans all the time. I was pissed after DA2. Like ME3 ending pissed but i didnt go on a rampage and start petitions. Game developers do better with healty feedback rather angry personal attacks. If people boycott thats their right. I would to if i felt the same way but i dont and so do a lot of peopel. Bioware will be fine.

[Tim_H]

Ha, the ending was genius because it was not the storybook ending I expected. Yes, the ending was traumatizing for me. My last thought as shephard before I destroyed the Reapers:

"I wish I could see Liara one last time."

It was a bit like dying in real life. I'm good with the bittersweet ending, though. But, for closure and "entertainment satisfaction" a bio of the surviving crew, like how Dragon Age: Origins ended, might have softened the shock of realizing that Shephard and Liara will never enjoy that retirement together they talked so much about.........

[SupremeLegate]

I wonder how long it will be before we hear something from BW regarding all of this. From tweets I have seen it seems that they are working on 'something' but not real indication as to what it is. To quote a certain poster in a certain FBI agents office, "I Want to Believe"


Also, on a side note, I think it is impressive that this thread is almost to 200 pages after only a day.

[Omnike]

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



]Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

I don't know. He's the catalyst. Thats what he said. I didnt really trust him. Thats why I chose destroy. My Shepard didnt break character. Probably what he would of done. 

There was no way to shut the reapers down? It had been established that they have unique codes that run the reapers. And why to the mass relays get destroyed in EVERY ending? Why is every ending exactly the same? If this is Bioware's plan all along, why did they say this is exactly what wouldn't happen? This is much bigger scale than Peter Molyneux. You don't build up three games just to yank the entire build up of them out at the last minute.

It happened because thats how it was suppose ot happen. The galaxy is at war and people were dying as shepard wasted time. He had 3 choices. Had to go with his gut. The mass relays were used as a way to channel the energy fromt he crucible to all the systems and it over loaded them. Plus if they are gonna start a new trilogy with a new canon they can't have 30 completely different endings to have to choose from the last one. People will just be complaining they picked the wrong one. They had to make them different but sorta the same. 

They've said before that there is no ME canon.  The story is what the player does.  And even if they have to pick one possible outcome to be the real canon, it doesn't matter, that's what they did with KOTOR and it's perfectly fine.

They also said they aren't going to make another ME game that takes place after ME3. 

Doesn't matter though, if these endings are real, I'm not getting another ME game because I'm forced to destroy the finely crafted world I had grown to love over 5 years.

Bioware says a lot of things. Like we arent working on MP. They aren't gonna tell us or anyone else anything unless they are ready too. No amount of angry protest is gonna change that. I figured if most have been following them through out the years they would of figured that out by now. I can almost guarantee ME4. Its to popular not to Continue. This one has already sold  over 3 million. 

Why risk an angry mob of pissed off fans? I know a large chunk have decided to boycott Bioware until it's fixed. It was a terrible idea that did nothing but blow up in their face.

 Developers gain and lose fans all the time. I was pissed after DA2. Like ME3 ending pissed but i didnt go on a rampage and start petitions. Game developers do better with healty feedback rather angry personal attacks. If people boycott thats their right. I would to if i felt the same way but i dont and so do a lot of peopel. Bioware will be fine.

Personal attacks have been much fewer than people just wanting a good ending. You'll notice most people saying that all three games were perfect right until the nonsensical ending. A petition does not equal threat. Signing a petition does not mean you are threatening the people that work at Bioware.

[Teh Tux]

They also said they aren't going to make another ME game that takes place after ME3. 

Really? Where?
Because I seem to remember them saying the exact opposite. The next game would (if made) most likely be set many years after the end of ME3.

[Tim_H]

C'mon, let's give the ME3 team a round of applause for giving us an ending that meant something to them as writers. This was definitely not a commercialized, canned ending.

Now that I think about it, Dragon Age: Origins also ended on a bitter sweet note. Terminally ill Gray Warden... and if you played the DLC that reunited you with Morrigan, that also ended ambiguously, with a hint of sadness and death.

This was a good game. And that writers could write something from the heart on a big box major media venue shows that art and soul are still alive !!!!

[JamesYHT]

Openging
For me, u guys did a great job before the ending. i really really enjoy it. the only problem before the ending is it kinda bit short, but even that's alright cause i really like DLCs. I bought all ME2 DLCs and plan to do it on ME3.

ME2
ME2 turned me into a ME fan. In ME2, every decisions u made especially squad mates loyalty missions and how ur decision in the suicide mission will affect the result. That's why it has replay value because everytime it's different. I played through many times.... ME3 goes against it entirely, i was shocked when i only need to pick too squad mates into the final mission...what about the others, where are they? what are they doing? NO CLUES! so i guess my weapon upgrades isn't matter anyway right? 

DLCs
If the ending will always be the same and my choices, decisions doesn't matter in the ending. why am i bother to buy a DLC which tells a story that happened in the middle of the game?  ( u guys always say our choices matter, but hoestly the ending of ME3 had been forced to me) MP DLCs? seriously, this not Battlefield nor COD, people buy ur product because they love ur story not ur MP. If they like ur story AND enjoy ur MP, they might buy ur MP DLCs. 

Ending
Some people said the journey is more important than the ending. How sad this statement sounds....I'm a university student, i know my hard workings during a semester is because i want a better mark on my final grade. if i know my final grade will alway be F or D, why am i bother to work hard during the semester. The journey of ME3 is amazing but hopeless and aimless, the ending is not worth fighting for. I'm working on my second playthrough and i don't even bother talk to anybody or care about what choice i make bcasue i know it doesn't matter in the ending. All i need to do is play couple of MP games before the ending and i will be fine. Does this sound motivate, i start the second trip only becasue i enjoy the combat and want to try different combine of squad mates.

As i said abve, ME series are famous for story, decisions and consequences. In ME3, i think u guys didn't think too much about decisions and consequences but more focus on combat. 

Ending Flaws
If the Indoctrinations Theory is true, then i guess everything make senses except u guys create a game without ending:pinched:

If the theory is not true, there are TOO MANY FLAWS and i guess the people who post in front of me already addressed. Here i only talk about one problem which make the whole ending MAKE NO SENSES. I bought the ME2 Arrival DLC, in that mission i destroied a Mass Relay and the whole system destroied. In ME3 every ending the Mass Relay blow up, so according to the DLC, the whole galaxy should be destroied and every body should die. However, in ur ending, joker and my squads mates survived....Seriously? That doesn't make any senses and make the entire series pointless - Shepard's mission is to destory the whole galaxy. Even reapers are better than him!!!!!!

PS: about the hero has to die to let the story be epic....yeah, it's true if u are TELLING us a story; however, in five years u are LETING us to CREATE a story. That phrase doesn't work here, u guys got it completely wrong. Honestly, I felt insult when i first finish the game, it's like ASSUMING CONTROL right before the ending. U guys took away the control in the last 10 mins which makes the 5 years gaming on ME like a joke. 

Well, just need to get this out of my chest....hope u guys really want to hear our voice

Whether u fix it or not. This was a big let down for me. (unless it's the theory with a true ending behind it)

Good luck in the future.

A Fan 

[babachewie]

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



]Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

I don't know. He's the catalyst. Thats what he said. I didnt really trust him. Thats why I chose destroy. My Shepard didnt break character. Probably what he would of done. 

There was no way to shut the reapers down? It had been established that they have unique codes that run the reapers. And why to the mass relays get destroyed in EVERY ending? Why is every ending exactly the same? If this is Bioware's plan all along, why did they say this is exactly what wouldn't happen? This is much bigger scale than Peter Molyneux. You don't build up three games just to yank the entire build up of them out at the last minute.

It happened because thats how it was suppose ot happen. The galaxy is at war and people were dying as shepard wasted time. He had 3 choices. Had to go with his gut. The mass relays were used as a way to channel the energy fromt he crucible to all the systems and it over loaded them. Plus if they are gonna start a new trilogy with a new canon they can't have 30 completely different endings to have to choose from the last one. People will just be complaining they picked the wrong one. They had to make them different but sorta the same. 

They've said before that there is no ME canon.  The story is what the player does.  And even if they have to pick one possible outcome to be the real canon, it doesn't matter, that's what they did with KOTOR and it's perfectly fine.

They also said they aren't going to make another ME game that takes place after ME3. 

Doesn't matter though, if these endings are real, I'm not getting another ME game because I'm forced to destroy the finely crafted world I had grown to love over 5 years.

Bioware says a lot of things. Like we arent working on MP. They aren't gonna tell us or anyone else anything unless they are ready too. No amount of angry protest is gonna change that. I figured if most have been following them through out the years they would of figured that out by now. I can almost guarantee ME4. Its to popular not to Continue. This one has already sold  over 3 million. 

Why risk an angry mob of pissed off fans? I know a large chunk have decided to boycott Bioware until it's fixed. It was a terrible idea that did nothing but blow up in their face.

 Developers gain and lose fans all the time. I was pissed after DA2. Like ME3 ending pissed but i didnt go on a rampage and start petitions. Game developers do better with healty feedback rather angry personal attacks. If people boycott thats their right. I would to if i felt the same way but i dont and so do a lot of peopel. Bioware will be fine.

Personal attacks have been much fewer than people just wanting a good ending. You'll notice most people saying that all three games were perfect right until the nonsensical ending. A petition does not equal threat. Signing a petition does not mean you are threatening the people that work at Bioware.

I'm not saying a petition did that. I should of clarified. The petition is fine even though I think its a waste of time. I meant attaacking their personal twitters and facebooks. Even the voice actors. Thats not cool. 

[nikola8]

Just saw this thread on another forum where Casey Hudson addresses the ending:

There’s been a lot of discussion and debate about the conclusion of Mass Effect 3, so I thought I’d share my  perspective with you here. I’ll avoid outright spoilers, but I’d still recommend finishing the game and experiencing it for yourself before reading this.  

For the last eight years, Mass Effect  has been a labor of love for our team; love for the characters we’ve created, for the medium of video games, and for the fans that have supported us.  For us and for you, Mass Effect 3 had to live up to a lot of expectations, not only for a great gaming experience, but for a resolution to the countless storylines and decisions you’ve made as a player since the journey began in 2007. So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences of your actions.  You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey.

We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way.  Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection.

We've had some incredibly positive reactions to Mass Effect 3, from the New York Times declaring it “a gripping, coherent triumph”, to Penny Arcade calling it “an amazing accomplishment”, to emails and tweets from players who have given us the most profound words of appreciation we've ever received.   

But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series.

I am extremely proud of what this team has accomplished, from the first art concepts for the Mass Effect universe to the final moments of Mass Effect 3.  But we didn't do it on our own.  Over the course of the series, Mass Effect has been a shared experience between the development team and our fans—not just a shared experience in playing the games, but in designing and developing them.  An outpouring of love for Garrus and Tali led to their inclusion as love interests in Mass Effect 2.  A request for deeper RPG systems led to key design changes in Mass Effect 3.  Your feedback has always mattered.  Mass Effect is a collaboration between developers and players, and we continue to listen. 

So where do we go from here? Throughout the next year, we will support Mass Effect 3 by working on new  content.  And we’ll keep listening, because your insights and constructive feedback will help determine what that content should be. This is not the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard.  

We look forward to your continued support and involvement as we work together to shape the remaining experiences in the story of the Mass Effect trilogy.

Thanks for taking this journey with us.
 
Casey Hudson

 

I'm curious to see what the "new content" will be.  

What I'm getting from his quote is that the creators of the game see the ending as presented throughout the game, or "a series of endings" as Casey puts it, rather than simply the last 10 minutes.  It's an interesting idea.

Modifié par nikola8, 17 mars 2012 - 06:05 .

[OhMuhGuh]

Killing Kai leng,
Ending the war between the Geth and the Quarians.
Curing the Genophage.

[Omnike]

babachewie wrote...


 I'm not saying a petition did that. I should of clarified. The petition is fine even though I think its a waste of time. I meant attaacking their personal twitters and facebooks. Even the voice actors. Thats not cool. 

No, it's not. And in no way do I condone that. That's taking it a step too far. Which is why I personally like the forums and the petitions. It is an easy way for the people who do want the end changed to voice their opinions and really show their numbers grow.