23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Raze4573]

My favorite ME3 moment? Its called ME3-up-to-the-ending.
I laughed, I cried, I cheered, I cursed. Mass Effect 3 is brilliant.....but then it ends and kills your love for the series.

[Dap Brannigan]

DCYNIGR8 wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

This is the best thing I have ever read on the internet. Ever.

Bravo, bwFex.

[Capt Shanderson2]

[bwFex]

 So, uh.

Since people seemed to like my post here, I figured I'd link to my post over on the suggestion thread. For science. And great justice.

Also, you guys are seriously making me feel awesome. Happy I could help express what we're all feeling.

Modifié par bwFex, 17 mars 2012 - 06:33 .

[breatheeasy88]

The real shame of the ending sequence in the game is that it made all of the time and effort the player had invested into the series to that point seem meaningless. I do not think any other game has so managed to allow a player to shape their setting and narrative, yet it was all for naught as Mass Effect 3 came to a close.

That is why there has been such vitriol here. People invested heavily in these games and felt as if they had been cheated out of that investment by the finale. While I do hope that the whole "indoctrination theory" is true, I can't help but feel like a bit of a rube for my belief. It's all just very unfortunate, an unnecessary blight on what has otherwise been a fantastic series of games.

[Lagao]

I went through the whole game making sure I completed everything 100%. I made sure my galaxy at war was 100% and I was always happy to check and see that my war assets we're fully ready to make an even assault against the reaper threat.

I loved all the hard choices of the game, even when I thought I made the wrong decisions, it always worked out in the long haul. (Quarian and Geth peace for example)

I didn't look up any spoilers or anything about the game, I heard the ending was bad but I ignored it on my own terms to see it for myself. I made sure to keep everyone alives as far as I can.

Then I got there, the ending. Everything was in place...I was amazed at all the ships and races working together.

I was even scared when I had to protect the rockets against all the reapers. I ran out of ammo and was panicing when the banshees came, and saw a glimpse of hope, a thermal clip on the ground and survived.

Then the final push, it was so intense. I didn't look back at my squad to see if they were there. I just kept pushing forward..then I was hit..fought the husks and marauder shields..got throught the ship...watched the illusive man shoot himself..

then the worst thing happened... the freakin star child. Made me make a choice. A, B, or C. Either way...I had to die...or so I thought. I destroyed the synthetic life. The reapers...The geth...and EDI. (btw I LOVED THE GETH. WHY?!) saw my crew get stranded on a remote planet. (Btw, how? Weren't they...oh idk in the same BLAST as me!?) and I saw I moved in the rubble. (Ok, that made me somewhat happy)

But heres the thing.
Why destroy the mass relays?
What cut off the galaxy from itself?
Why couldn't it just stop after the crucible docked and just been like "You did it shepard. Its over" and it destroys the reapers and everyone is happy?! I don't care if its cliche. Why?
And how is my crew going to reunite with my nearly dead shepard?!

I really do hope this is answered in a dlc of some sort..

[geckosentme]

Tim_H wrote...

geckosentme wrote...

This ending was horrible.  All of the beautiful emotional content of Shepard and Anderson's final conversation was absolutely destroyed by the arrival of the Reaper/Catalyst Kid and his trite, contrived option.

It's ridiculous to suggest that the Reapers are so integral to the Mass Relays. citadel etc.  But beyond that how can you set up a choice where Shepard either caves into the reapers a la the illusive man or has to destroy the entire galactic civilization s/he was committed to saving.

Pointless.  Vapid.  Both me and my wife thought it was beautiful up to the final moments of Shepard and Andersons convo.  Instead this gets interrupted and shepard has to go through this ridiculous final moment of just gettting blown to hell rather than dying peacefully with the rest s/he deserved.

If the least you can do is just patch the game to kind of fade to black at that moment it would be great.

Don't see myself replaying this game the way I did with ME1 & 2 simply because it's not a satisfying emotional experience nor do I see myself buying very much DLC to "enhance" what is honestly probably the worst treatments any videogame hero has ever received and frankly really poor emotionally jarring and pointless story telling.

Reapers are a plot device.  Their motivations are irrelevant--any attempt to explain them is going to result in something stupid.

Change the ending.

I yield.  The ending was god awful.  And the ghost kid was stupid.  There's nothing inevitable about synthesis with machines.  I WANT MY RETIREMENT HOUSE WITH LIARA AND DINNER VISITS FROM GARRUS AND TALI.

THIS IS NOT MY "NEGOTIATION PHASE".  .............  

Perfectly happy if Shepard dies, not looking for a fairy tale ending, my Shep never romanced anyone in Me1, garrus and 2 but didn't continue the relationship in 3, cause I prefer the "bromance." 

But frankly, Shep should at least be able to defeat the reapers without destroying the whole galactic community and starving every turian and quarian still in Sol System to death.

Otherwise, what's the point, might as well have let Saren win.

Pointless.

[Nette]

Hey, guys you need to read this right now! : http://social.biowar...10084349-1.html

Modifié par Nette, 17 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[Strife17O7]

 If I were to think about it all in-depth again, I'd risk sending myself into another raging rant......and I've had too much of that for one evening. Again.

So to make a long story short...


If this is how it all -really- ends. If -this- is supposed to count as closure from them...
I probably won't be interested in continuing any further in any other Bioware series.
I would be at least much more disinclined. 

[Joy Sauce]

Already went into detail about what I didn't like here: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10098213/31#10106336 

What did I like best? After three games and hundreds of hours what's kept me around has been the characters. So those great emotional moments - Mordin's death, Thane's death, Legion's death, saying your goodbyes to your friends. I haven't sobbed this much for fictional characters since the last Harry Potter book.

[LANDWARRlOR]

As everyone has said, the game was total brilliance! ... until the end.

Of course, this isn't the first time a game has ended with the main characters death, particularly in RPG's. On that note, it never worked out well for those games either. For example; Fallout 3. Bethesda had to release a DLC to correct it.

The problem is, for me anyway, isn't just that we've developed Shepard's progress, character, personality and life for three games, only to receive this crushing blow at the end. That is a huge factor, sure. It's like everything we've done and tried to achieve, has been somewhat pointless, right down to the love interests (Though, I get how femshep finally getting her life back together with Kaiden, makes the ending/sacrifice more significant).

The greater issue is playing the game again, and not even just this game. Like I said, this story has developed and carried on for three titles now, and I personally find it difficult to get back into any of it, knowing the outcome.

In movies, this concept might work. I've never known it to work out with the audience in video games, especially role-playing games.

Another thing to consider; If you want to call this the final game of the series, fair enough. But you said that for Command & Conquer too EA, and... oh, look! Another one in development, . In my opinion, it's a bad idea to leave yourself with a dead end, where the story can't continue. In this case; Shepard's dead, half his/her friends are dead, half his/her allies are dead, the ship is dead, even the bloody hamster is dead. Remember Aria? You know, the one who suggested you gather mercenaries for her, whom she will use to assist in your great fleet? Last I saw of her, she was on the Citadel... So yeah, she's dead too, and my point about some things (if not all) being pointless, stands.

But, back to the point, this game (these games, even!) has attracted a massive audience. This means, there is potential to make more money, by finding a way to carry on the story. You created a game, with a dead end... no way to move forward, no more titles, no more money. So, it wasn't just a bad idea, it was bad business.

My suggestion? Do what Bethesda did and release a DLC, enabling the character and story to move forward. Here's an idea; What if, the Reapers weren't really withdrawing or exploding? What if, none of Shepard's final choices had the impact we all saw? It did seem kinda strange that after stepping into that transport to the Citadel, he/she and Anderson woke up a room away from the control room... What was Anderson even doing there? Did anyone see him charging toward the transport with everyone else? ... or the part that gets me, why on earth was Joker fleeing through a Mass Relay, even when the Reapers were defeated!? Why was Kaiden there, especially if Shepard brought him along? What if Shepard wasn't transported to where he/she thought she was? What if, he/she is strapped to a chair/table, being experimented on. The Reapers reading into Shepard's thoughts, to see how he/she would react to these scenarios. What if, they're experimenting to find out why Shepard so unique, even amongst humanity?   What if Shepard is simply dreaming the end?  Based on Mass Effect 2, we know the Collectors sought her body for the Reapers before...   We saw the effects indoctrination has been having on him/her, since Arrival.  Is she really fighting it?  He/she shot Anderson, someone who was seemingly a father figure...   

It might not be a great idea, but it's something. It's certainly better than hero surviving lethal amounts of radiation in a small enclosure, for no apparent reason than to stop the game from cutting off. Atleast then, Shepard's alive, the ship and crew are intact, Illusive Man is still alive (If Reapers are monitoring his/her thoughts, they can tell he/she considered the Illusive Man was indoctrinated... was he?), and yes, the bloody hamster is alive too!  So what I'm really proposing, isn't necessarily a DLC, but a way for you to assure everyone the story can and will continue.




... One more thing, and for the record;  I don't believe we actually have those stupid red telephone boxes in London, or anywhere else in the UK anymore.  It's the 21st century, we have cell/mobile phones... lol

Modifié par LANDWARRlOR, 17 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[tchuron]

[Spoiler Alert]

I loved Mass Effect 3 everything was great, the music the story, the action, the crafting. I loved the remodeled Normandy and the wide variety of weapons and armor that was available.
And then I got to the end and it was like someone dropped a bomb on everything I loved about the game. Being limited to three choices that weren't influenced at all by any of my other choices made throughout the series. I went each of the 3 endings and even the one I liked the most I didn't think felt like an appropriate end. Probably the biggest reason was because there was nothing that showed what happened to all the people and places I became attached to playing the series.

Where was the shot of Quarians building houses on Rannoch with their new Geth Allies Where was the Krogan nursery filled with gazillions of reptilian babies. I wanted to see the giant after-party when Shepard reunites with his remaining friends. Where was the epic speech Hackett gives about rebuilding? Where was the meeting that resulted in a new galactic Council with members from every species?

Why is it that the only sort of epilogue is some random old man and a kid in the distant future that have nothing to do with anything I associated with ME?

I still think you guys did an incredible job with ME3 I just didn't feel like the ending was deserving of the rest of the incredible world you guys created.

[Helion Tide]

Omnike wrote...

Helion Tide wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



 Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

Star child?  Why is everyone calling him the "Star Child", as if he has a purpose or a history of some child living in the stars.  The ending was ambiguous for a reason.  It was trying to hide the truth of what was really happening to Shepard.  That "Star Child" wasn't real to begin with, let alone real enough to give him some physical governance or role.  The amount of anger and unwillingness to look at the "end" of the game with an open mind is astounding.

Reaper Indoctrination.  Look it up, or watch this if you're lazy and don't want to investigate for yourselves:



The only way anyone would be absolutely outraged by the apparent "ending" (read: "NOT the end") of ME3, is if they took it at face value and didn't read into what was happening in those final moments with Shepard.

Right now, I feel sorry for Bioware for trying to do something bold and courageous by throwing at its fans a profound twist to an already profoundly engaging story, only to be flamed and protested for it afterwards.  It is the equivalent of everyone going to see Inception, and then for some reason, because the ending was blatantly ambiguous, everyone storms out of the theater throwing their popcorn at each other and writing the production companies and their producers.  Sure, ME3's "ending" was executed in a rather vague way, but that's what plot twists and underlying, subliminal undertones are supposed to be.  What Bioware has done, if the Indoc Theory holds true, is deliver -- by FAR -- one of the greatest story archs in gaming history.

If it doesn't.. well...

They got a lotta 'splainin to do.

You know what happens when you assume.... I can't just assume that Bioware had this intention. To be completely honest, I could assume that Bioware had originally planned on turning Shepard into a blue or pink bunny, depending on your gender. While very creative, the indoctrination theory is exactly that- theory. You just can't say it's for certain.

This is DEFINITELY THE CASE. Peter Parker was never actually Spider-Man, he was just high on PCP. I'm sure someone could fit in plot devices to make that a sound theory, and maybe the author even had that intention, but until they come out and say it, I won't assume.

I could completely turn this around on you, to make you look like the conspiracy theorist.  Think about it.

So, you're just going to ASSUME that Bioware ended their most beloved franchise to date on such an obviously unsatisfying cliffhanger and plot twist -- at its face value -- before they come out and officially say what truly happened, or eventually allow us to figure it out for ourselves?  Come on...

Everything makes perfect sense when you consider the notion that you are undergoing a final indoctrination attempt, one that has been underway throughout the entire series for the most part, and depending on your actions during those final moments of the ME3 storyline with the "Catalyst"... will have even more impact on your end game.  Because, let's face it.. anyone who seriously thinks that was in fact THE END of Mass Effect 3, needs to give their head a shake and realize that it would be absurd for a company with even a single consumer, let alone millions, to do.  Wait.. no, maybe I'm wrong.. some of the greatest films of all time are left on cliffhangers and vague undertones to portray possible meaning.. but I'll save that discussion for now.

Regardless, Indoc theory is the best collection of speculation and data that the community has to accurately depict the final moments of ME3, and I for one can't wait to find out what happens next.

[Teacher50]

Mcfly616 wrote...

@Tim_H

You need to visit more threads.and get your facts straight....nobody cares if he dies.....they want to see the consequences of all the work they did in the games and all the choices they made, seen through more varied endings....there's too many variables to have 3 measly endings....period. the end does not provide closure and only introduces more plotholes....unless Shep is dreaming or indoctrinated....not saying he is or isn't....but its the only way to make logical sense of the last 10 minutes....otherwise it has so many consistency issues with everything that was established throughout the series

Ah... I care. I think that should be a choice too.

[babachewie]

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...


 I'm not saying a petition did that. I should of clarified. The petition is fine even though I think its a waste of time. I meant attaacking their personal twitters and facebooks. Even the voice actors. Thats not cool. 

No, it's not. And in no way do I condone that. That's taking it a step too far. Which is why I personally like the forums and the petitions. It is an easy way for the people who do want the end changed to voice their opinions and really show their numbers grow.

To be honest i was expecting a MGS 4 45 minute CG fest. I was kinda surprised but I still dont want it changed. Its just something about forcing someones vision into someones elses. It would screw with my head, but if they wanna do post game DLC that dives further in th emystery then I'm all for it. Which I'm about 85% sure they are.

I'd be content with that. I just want to closure. A happy ending would be nice. I tried very hard to make sure I got it in 3, but if it's not there I won't cry about it. I just want the closure.

Well I like leaving a little mystery for me to think about.  One reason I'm not worried is because they said This is commander shepards end. Not Mass Effects. Also that Teaser he's alive wasnt put in for nothing. Somethings coming soon. They wouldnt leave him like that. Also i guarantee a take back Omega Aria DLC. She was highly under used suspicously in the game.

Alright, you've recovered my hope. I'm hanging in there.

Happy to help:D

[FortuneGrand]

I'm not usually one to post on forums and whatnot (this is my first on BSN). I was also a latecomer in the Mass Effect series, after hearing about the success of Mass Effect 2 and how you could transfer your save file over from Mass Effect 1 I could not resist getting myself into such an epic, involving and cinematic experience, since I've always been a strong believer of video games as a storytelling medium. Seeing how my choices persisted through three consecutive games in shaping my adventure is what sold the series for me. This is what brings me to the heart of the problem for me and a lot of others. Enough lying to myself, I admit that after finishing Mass Effect 3, I was somewhat not entirely satisfied. Immediately upon completion however, my brain was still in awe at the journey I'd just been through in the trilogy and accepted the ending for what it was, except something was not quite right. I'm sure those who enjoyed the ending could argue that there is a way to make sense of it through certain interpretations, given its sudden tonal and philosophical shift during the climax, naturally tons of debate will follow. Just like how the against-arguments also work with interpretation.

I on the other hand, despite 'accepting' the conclusive nature of the game, actually felt a deep sense of depression...no other game has ever made me feel this way. And I was naturally curious to find out more about what the endings meant, and what themes they ultimately symbolised. This led me to BSN, where I, to no surprise, found so many people to feel the same way and be disappointed by the lack of closure and variety presented in the final scenes of the game. I've been lurking in the forums literally 24/7 since beating Mass Effect 3, where throughout the time spent here I kept track of almost every thread and topic posted, trying to find some comfort and answers as well as thinking about all the theories the people have come up with whether they were strongly agreed on, supported or ridiculed.

Slowly I became convinced that the ending was not what it seemed, and bought into certain parts of the 'Indoctrination Theory'. Maybe I was just in denial and consumed by 'mob mentality', but maybe it was my dissatisfaction that led me to the forums in the first place and conclude that the endings were simply lacking in quality compared to the rest of the experience in what I would otherwise probably consider the best games/stories I have ever played and experienced. I really tried to rationalize and be constructive with my thoughts about it all but there were always the underlying feelings of confusion and anger. I'm sure all the hardcore fans out there have been living in these forums for closure too, and kept up to date on the latest arguments from both sides as well as the countless articles from gaming and mainstream websites.

I think the donations and the movement are truly brilliant and shows just how dedicated and loyal fans are to the series, and I've been trying to keep my hopes up about Bioware keeping to Casey Hudson's 'promises' by delivering a surprise extended ending, since I thought if they could pull this off right it would really be the biggest and most ambitious stunt/twist ever attempted and a true spectacle in gaming experience. I believed it was all an act to save spoiling the true ending for the global fanbase, and through 'real-time player indoctrination', they would soon announce the news of an ending DLC after all the speculation and interpretation they wanted from the fans in order to make the end of the trilogy truly memorable (after everyone had completed the game), instead of simply cheaply trying to gain publicity through shock factor. If this was the case, the company would achieve godmode in my eyes. However, the longer I waited and the more responses I came across from the developers, the more I became worried that the current ending was exactly the way they intended it to be. This however, does not mean all hope is lost. Right now I am trying to fight these thoughts and stay positive, and I need all of your support in having faith.

I understand a lot of people are upset about what Casey Hudson said in regards to the conclusion of Mass Effect 3. Some may even give up trying to "hold the line", and has taken his statement as a definitive "no" to changing/expanding the ending. I'm here to share my thoughts, feelings and hopefully to help share some perspective on why his letter is actually a beacon of hope. In case some of you guys haven't read it yet, here is what he said:

"There’s been a lot of discussion and debate about the conclusion of Mass Effect 3, so I thought I’d share my perspective with you here. I’ll avoid outright spoilers, but I’d still recommend finishing the game and experiencing it for yourself before reading this.

For the last eight years, Mass Effect has been a labor of love for our team; love for the characters we’ve created, for the medium of video games, and for the fans that have supported us. For us and for you, Mass Effect 3 had to live up to a lot of expectations, not only for a great gaming experience, but for a resolution to the countless storylines and decisions you’ve made as a player since the journey began in 2007. So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences of your actions. You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey.

We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way. Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection.

We've had some incredibly positive reactions to Mass Effect 3, from the New York Times declaring it “a gripping, coherent triumph”, to Penny Arcade calling it “an amazing accomplishment”, to emails and tweets from players who have given us the most profound words of appreciation we've ever received.

But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series.

I am extremely proud of what this team has accomplished, from the first art concepts for the Mass Effect universe to the final moments of Mass Effect 3. But we didn't do it on our own. Over the course of the series, Mass Effect has been a shared experience between the development team and our fans—not just a shared experience in playing the games, but in designing and developing them. An outpouring of love for Garrus and Tali led to their inclusion as love interests in Mass Effect 2. A request for deeper RPG systems led to key design changes in Mass Effect 3. Your feedback has always mattered. Mass Effect is a collaboration between developers and players, and we continue to listen.

So where do we go from here? Throughout the next year, we will support Mass Effect 3 by working on new content. And we’ll keep listening, because your insights and constructive feedback will help determine what that content should be. This is not the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard.

We look forward to your continued support and involvement as we work together to shape the remaining experiences in the story of the Mass Effect trilogy.

Thanks for taking this journey with us.

Casey Hudson"

Indeed I am starting to believe they never predicted the backlash to be so severe with the ending they originally intended in the first place. And indeed this is typical PR damage control, after all they are an organization and need to be smart in issuing a statement and respond in a way that causes the least possible harm to their business. This is understandable of course, and sometimes that means being vague and not answering each and every question straight away, because not everyone will agree with their plan of action either way.

The way I see Casey Hudson's response is that it's a clever way in addressing several things, to sell the game further, to simply show that they are listening and have in the past let the fans co-create and continue the Mass Effect universe, as well as astutely admitting that they had not prepared for such a reaction from fans, by 'validating' all the negative feedback. He/Bioware could have clearly kept silent for longer, and at the very least he is showing that he cares by simply acknowledging the controversy instead of just 'disappearing' now that they've sold millions of copies. I know some angry fans will probably be even angrier after reading what he said, as I know I was initially, but if you put yourself for a moment in the shoes of ones who actually loved the ending, you will view his statement in a completely different perspective. Those pro-ending fans may think that everything was absolutely fine and would hate to see a change, and just like they should respect our opinions, we should respect theirs. So understandably Casey isn't addressing any of the 'problems' right away as it could backfire and cause even more friction within the community. The pro-ending fans would call out Bioware for giving in their integrity and being weak in sticking with their artistic vision, even for simply apologizing in any fashion, and I think the last thing we need right now is a divide in the fanbase.

Bioware/Casey Hudson at this point are simply being withholding and cautious whilst getting every bit of information they need to decide what their next step is. Of course they are trying to maintain public relations at this point, but they WILL listen to fans and let it ultimately become the outcome in their future plans, simply because pleasing the masses is good business. Call it stalling if you wish, just remember that Mass Effect is Casey Hudson/Bioware's brainchild, and they would not let this franchise rot to hell like this with the fanbase. I'm an impatient person myself, but honestly ask yourself, would you wait a year for the release of a well thought out and a quality-produced ending, or not have one at all? As long as our voices are heard through constructive feedback (and you have all done amazingly by the way), we will accomplish what we came here for. There is now a 'Suggested Changes' thread which I urge all of you passionate fans to post your opinions in, because every single one of them matters. Maybe this is all just blind optimism, but nobody ever got anywhere by being negative. I've never posted on BSN and hardly any other forums until now, and I know a lot of you silent visitors are just as passionate about what you want as the vocal ones are. Now's your chance to speak up! Thanks for your time.

[Teacher50]

Helion Tide wrote...

Omnike wrote...

Helion Tide wrote...

Omnike wrote...

babachewie wrote...



 Well if that's what you believe than i feel sorry for you. I guess you and a lot of others missed the point

It's not what we "believe", it's what we know. Who is the star child? Why did Shepard suddenly break character? Please, if you understand it as you claim to, explain to the mass who seemingly can't understand.

Star child?  Why is everyone calling him the "Star Child", as if he has a purpose or a history of some child living in the stars.  The ending was ambiguous for a reason.  It was trying to hide the truth of what was really happening to Shepard.  That "Star Child" wasn't real to begin with, let alone real enough to give him some physical governance or role.  The amount of anger and unwillingness to look at the "end" of the game with an open mind is astounding.

Reaper Indoctrination.  Look it up, or watch this if you're lazy and don't want to investigate for yourselves:



The only way anyone would be absolutely outraged by the apparent "ending" (read: "NOT the end") of ME3, is if they took it at face value and didn't read into what was happening in those final moments with Shepard.

Right now, I feel sorry for Bioware for trying to do something bold and courageous by throwing at its fans a profound twist to an already profoundly engaging story, only to be flamed and protested for it afterwards.  It is the equivalent of everyone going to see Inception, and then for some reason, because the ending was blatantly ambiguous, everyone storms out of the theater throwing their popcorn at each other and writing the production companies and their producers.  Sure, ME3's "ending" was executed in a rather vague way, but that's what plot twists and underlying, subliminal undertones are supposed to be.  What Bioware has done, if the Indoc Theory holds true, is deliver -- by FAR -- one of the greatest story archs in gaming history.

If it doesn't.. well...

They got a lotta 'splainin to do.

You know what happens when you assume.... I can't just assume that Bioware had this intention. To be completely honest, I could assume that Bioware had originally planned on turning Shepard into a blue or pink bunny, depending on your gender. While very creative, the indoctrination theory is exactly that- theory. You just can't say it's for certain.

This is DEFINITELY THE CASE. Peter Parker was never actually Spider-Man, he was just high on PCP. I'm sure someone could fit in plot devices to make that a sound theory, and maybe the author even had that intention, but until they come out and say it, I won't assume.

I could completely turn this around on you, to make you look like the conspiracy theorist.  Think about it.

So, you're just going to ASSUME that Bioware ended their most beloved franchise to date on such an obviously unsatisfying cliffhanger and plot twist -- at its face value -- before they come out and officially say what truly happened, or eventually allow us to figure it out for ourselves?  Come on...

Everything makes perfect sense when you consider the notion that you are undergoing a final indoctrination attempt, one that has been underway throughout the entire series for the most part, and depending on your actions during those final moments of the ME3 storyline with the "Catalyst"... will have even more impact on your end game.  Because, let's face it.. anyone who seriously thinks that was in fact THE END of Mass Effect 3, needs to give their head a shake and realize that it would be absurd for a company with even a single consumer, let alone millions, to do.  Wait.. no, maybe I'm wrong.. some of the greatest films of all time are left on cliffhangers and vague undertones to portray possible meaning.. but I'll save that discussion for now.

Regardless, Indoc theory is the best collection of speculation and data that the community has to accurately depict the final moments of ME3, and I for one can't wait to find out what happens next.

Umm... I guess another posibility is they just screwed it up. Naw, they wouldn't risk drawing fire from big time writters and such... or would they?

[Mcfly616]

@ bwFex...
Don't forget who promoted your post the most haha....everytime I read it....mind blown....saved me an hours worth of typing....and a lot of other people

[Dark Tlaloc]

It seems like there are two fairly distinct opinions on these forums about the endings: 

1) They're fine as they are, and if you don't like them, either you didn't understand them, or you need to just suck it up.

OR

2) Literally ANYTHING added to the ending would be preferable to how it is now, regardless of the outcome.

Well, I'm in a third group (and forgive me if I'm presenting this as a unique opinion; I just haven't seen it said much):

I WANT MY SHEPARD ALIVE. Not only alive, but defiantly watching the Reaper invasion fail from the cockpit of the Normandy. 

Why?

Because I played 3 games as Sean Shepard, the superhero video game equivalent of me, and I'll be damned if he's going out like a punk (assuming the existing endings are the real thing)! My Shepard always faced impossible odds, and at the end of the day, still had time to challenge Garrus to a shoot-off, or help Thane reunite with his son, or give Ashley a book of poetry. My Shepard isn't invincible, but he always comes out on top. And as trite as it may sound to admit this, that's what I want from the end of his story. Superman died, but he came back, and he always won. That's how I expect my Shepard to be.


...Also, he didn't get enough time with Miranda before the Reaper assault, and he's owed that.

[Mcfly616]

Teacher50....
I wouldn't mind if there was the possibilty of him living....not at all....I even stated.earlier in the thread, it should be like the ME2 suicide mission, only on a grander scale.....Shep lives/Reapers die, Shep dies/Reapers die, Shep dies/ Reapers win....those are all good and fine....but like your decisions affecting.the lives of your squad in ME2, your decisions in ME3 should affect whether or not what homeworlds are won and lost kn the end...which species live on or die off.....so many variables.n..any number of things should be possible depending on what you do.....of the indoctrination theory is wrong, and its just meant to be taken at face value....then it completely goes against the "cause and effect" principles the series was built on....and it does so in the last 5 mins....

[Mcfly616]

If* the indoc.theory is wrong....

[Vakarian89]

Dap Brannigan wrote...

DCYNIGR8 wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

This is the best thing I have ever read on the internet. Ever.

Bravo, bwFex.

I waass gonna write my thoughts but bwFex has pretty much summed up everything anyone here has said into a great post.. i feel the same way nothin more to say...

[jeweledleah]

Mcfly616 wrote...

@Tim_H

You need to visit more threads.and get your facts straight....nobody cares if he dies.....they want to see the consequences of all the work they did in the games and all the choices they made, seen through more varied endings....there's too many variables to have 3 measly endings....period. the end does not provide closure and only introduces more plotholes....unless Shep is dreaming or indoctrinated....not saying he is or isn't....but its the only way to make logical sense of the last 10 minutes....otherwise it has so many consistency issues with everything that was established throughout the series

I woudln't say nobody.. some of us WOULD like an option for Shepard to survive and get back with their LI.  but endings actualy making sence IS a primary concern

[SavvyToli]

Bioware you have changed the lives of many gamers and many to appreciate this game as a work of art and not just entertainment. Based on myself and every fan here you made us cry, laugh, smile and angry for 10 minutes and the ending. I think calibrations are in order because it can't end the way it did, it just cant! Bioware I am kneeling beforeyou on behalf of myself and fans to please make all this sorrow and happiness count for something. Make my $80 plus tax count for something. Red, Green and Blue are not my favorite colors. We cant wait any longer!! You should never have rushed the game like this if that's what made the end the way it is with no absolute closure whatsoever. I have plenty of favorite moments in the game btw, and its the moment where i myself tried to understand WTF was going on!!

[shadowspecialist]

Nette wrote...

Hey, guys you need to read this right now! : http://social.biowar...10084349-1.html

Definitely Agree. Anyone who hasn't read, definitely needs to read asap.

Favorite part? Being glued to the edge of my seat for every single hour played. I haven't been so enthralled with a story in years. But after that ending, everything kind of left and then I felt cheated. So I got up and ran, and ran, until my legs couldn't go anymore. Its depressing really. No amount of work or time spent away from being plugged in has helped. Pathetic.

Regardless, I'm going to hold the line.