23455 réponses à ce sujet

[charon45]

I will put a few of my thoughts on the ME3 ending here.  That is what I signed up to do.  Let me start off by saying that I'm a huge fan of Bioware games and am not a hater.  DA2 seems to get a lot of hate here, and I thought it was a great game, recycled dungeons aside.  I bought From Ashes and didn't really see the problem with it.  I would rather a DLC character come early and be integrated into the game rather than get a Kasumi type character who has no interaction with any of the preexisting squad.  I don't really have as much time to play games as I used to, so it would make no logical sense to commit over 30 hours over to something I was set out on not liking from the beginning.  In other words, I genuinely wanted to love this game. 

And I did for the most part until I got to the end.  When I finished the game, my immediate reaction is that I must have done something wrong to get such a bad ending.  So I immediately googled it and found out that the only real change I could get, besides choosing one of the other doors, was a 5 seconds of Shepard taking a breath from under some rubble.  The best word I could use to describe my feeling about the ending at this point was hollow.  The ending sucked up all of the oxygen from the excitement that had been built up in the previous days of playing.  This was odd, because I thought I was prepared to accept just about anything.  I knew that the trip into the citadel was going to be a one way trip for Shepard, so my problem was not that he wouldn't get to fly off into the sunset with Ashley.  I actually sort of figured that Shep would die at the end of the trilogy somewhere in part 1, when I realized the scope of the threat that the galaxy would be facing.  At some point, I realized that Shepard was fighting for the future of the Normandy crew more than anything else.  This is part of what made Shepard's victory feel so hollow.  I can accept that he sacrificed himself, but the crew getting  marooned for the rest of their lives made that feel meaningless.  Tali would never get back to Rannoch to build the home she wanted.  Joker would never find out if his sister survived the attack on the colony or not.  Garrus would never get to shoot another criminal in the face.  Having them get stranded took all the joy out of victory, and this is before factoring in things like Garrus and Tali not being able to survive on human food. 

The same could be said about the ME universe at large when the relays blew up.  I spent two games trying to make sure that the Quarians would get to go home and make peace with the Geth.  Without the relays, it is unlikely that any living Quarian would live long enough to make it back to Rannoch, given my knowledge of the lore.  That is, if it is even possible for them to make it back at all.  There also seems to be less meaning in making peace between the Krogan and Turrian because it does not seem like they will have any regular contact with each other without the relays.  Just try to think about what the games would have been like without the relay mechanics.  Shepard, we need you to investigate some colony disappearances in the Terminus systems.  Shepard: K, give me 12 years to get there.  Aside from the characters, the games made me attached to the ME universe as a whole, and that seems broken to, after the ending.  And if I was wrong about any of that, then something in the ending should have let me know that the galactic community would go on. 

The last issue I had was the whole catalyst Illusive Man debacle.  The Illusive Man was talking about controlling the Reapers from the beginning of the game, and from the beginning, Shepard was arguing that he was crazy and power hungry and that his plan would never work.  A few words from the catalyst later, controlling the Reapers became not only feasible, but the paragon choice.  What?  So Shepard was wrong and the Illusive Man was right because controlling the reapers was actually the right course of action?  I don't know what you guys did down there, but that plot point just pulled a turn so fast it would shear any Reaper in half.  

I also had a small gripe with the logic of the Catalyst.  It and the Reapers are synthetics that were developed before the Reapers existed to keep organic life in check in the pattern.  Left to its own devices, technology advanced to the point where it started culling advanced civilizations to preserve live as a whole.  You can't say that if left unchecked, synthetic life would reach a point where it wiped out all organics, when it didn't.  As with every other point, if I'm wrong or there is a counter-argument, then something in the end should have let me know.  There are other small problems like the ressurected squad member getting out of the Normandy or how the Normandy ended up crashing, but other people will probably address those in more detail.  This is what I though.  Sorry if it seems like I'm basing your product, but I'm just trying to be as honest as I can.    

[Baihu1983]

How i felt during the ending

[cotheer]

Good God, wrong thread:blush:

Modifié par cotheer, 17 mars 2012 - 08:59 .

[Juniper Mucius]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

topher_sherman2283 wrote...

Just because the "Reaper" mass relays were destroyed in the ending(s) doesn't mean "All the fleets you brought to Earth are destined to starve and die" (I’ll admit, not so good for the Normandy crew as it would take years to make new relays) And yes, many, many people would no doubt suffer. But, in fact it gives them incentive to create new and better technology and figure out how to survive. This is what actually fuels innovation today, to make something that is needed and to make something better than your competitors. The Reaper tech that built the Mass Relays just made the galaxy complacent, the Asari bartender (I apologize I don't remember her name) was right, The moment we discovered them we should have tried to deconstruct and improve upon them, which if ME was real, is most likely what would have happened, but we have to take that as fact that up until now that the galaxy just "went with it".

The problem that I think folks are focusing on is that earth can't sustain all those millions of people, and some races can't eat the food on earth...so they are stuck with the limited supplies on the ships they have, and so they don't have the time it would take to remake the relays and survive. The real problem (if you see it as a problem that is...some players and indeed the developers like this scenario) however, is destroying the relays destroys the galaxy, so the Cycle basically ends anyway and it's up to the next Cycle to accomplish rebuilding the relays (if they choose to) and avoid the chaos caused by Organics creating/overutilizing synthetics....and they have a much better chance than in Shepard's cycle, because of Liara's project.

FFS.  FTL still exists.  Milky Way has 200-400 billion stars.  Going off of what scientists have recently said, planetary systems like ours are possibly much more common.  Those ships are in the Local Cluster.  If we're being generous and saying that the Milky Way has about 400 billion stars, then that puts a million or more stars within normal FTL range of all those ships.  It could be *very* possible that there are enough planets within a million stars that are able to be colonized, even by turians and quarians, if need be.  

If we aren't being generous and saying there's 200 billion stars, that's still hundreds of thousands of stars within normal FTL range.

Hell, I could be wrong.  Clusters could be much bigger than the "circle" we see on the map.  We don't know exactly.  The map is also a 2-D representation of a 3-D plane.  There's MUCH more space and stars in a cluster than what it looks like on a map.  The only people that are screwed is probably Terra Nova.  That's suggesting they don't already have the ability to self-sustain (I do believe it's a garden world).  

[N-Seven]

I will also throw my hat into the 'hate the idea of all the mass relays being destroyed' crowd. Basically this would plunge the galaxy into chaos, and probably lead to more countless deaths. Millions? Billions? Supply lines cut, communications cut, economies and governments destroyed, etc. The end of long-range space travel, plunging the galaxy into a pre-interstellar age. It ends the Mass Effect universe as we have known it.

[Sir Craven]

Just one more voice for the choir from a long-term Bioware fan here; I've started out with the original Baldur's Gate more than a decade ago and have bought almost any Bioware title since then without waiting for reviews as their level of quality has always proven to be high. I've never felt disappointed by any Bioware game before.

ME3 has many great moments that really created an enjoyable experience (the many character interactions, the heart-wrenching self-sacrifice of Mordin, the death of Thane, etc etc); all this has been said before by others.

But the (non-) endings ruined it all for me. The reasons have been argued by people more eloquent than myself, I don't need to repeat them in detail (plot holes, glaring logic errors, invalidating everything we've done in ME1 and ME2, destroying everything we fought for). Never before have I felt so let down, not to say outright depressed, by the ending of any Bioware game. That's not what I play games for. Having a "dark" ending as an option is okay, but you need to give us the chance to "save the day".

I had planned to do multiple play-throughs with my ME2 Shepards just to see how everything influences the final outcome but when I saw the ending all my desire to play the game again just vanished. Then I watched the "ending comparison" video on YT. I just have no words.

For ME2 I've bought almost all available DLC even though I despise the very concept of it, because the experience, the characters and the universe you've created were so great. Unless ME3 gets a satisfactory ending via free DLC/patch/whatever where the only outcome is NOT doom and gloom, death and despair I'll refrain from buying any more DLCs.

And you know what? Even if the "good ending" will cost money, I'll probably buy it just to get some "real" closure for this journey that has spanned the last  several years. But then I'll be done with Bioware games. And add EA to the list.

Regards,
a very disappointed customer

[Extra-Planetal]

I really enjoyed Mass Effect 3.  I thought it was a true sequal to the first 2 and I liked how my decisions from the first 2 games actually influenced the game.

I loved the entire notion of unity of how everyone got together to fight the Reapers.  I especially loved the Reaper base mission on Rammoch - the part where you go through the Geth archives was amazing. 

The enitre game was 100% amazing and by far the best game I'd ever played.  It's story and feel was way above any over.  It really pulled you into a carefully thought out universe with a deep story.

It did all this untill The fleets exited the Charon Relay and started attacking Earth.  From there on it turned into a jumbled mass of tangled writing all of which made no sense leading to a overly dramaticized, cliche filled ending that completely disragerded the player's choices, Mass Effect lore, common sense and logic.

To put it shortly - Mass Effect 3 without last bit - congrats Bioware, you made the best RPG ever.

Mass Effect 3 with last bit - WTF were you thinking  Bioware?!?!

P.S. - You should just have let the Reapers won.  It would at least have made sense.

Modifié par Extra-Planetal, 17 mars 2012 - 09:18 .

[alcad221]

I know 200 pages worth of words have been said, but I have to say my piece as well.

I just beat ME3 and immediately got the urge to start reading up on others' thoughts. Hands down, ME3 was one of, if not THE, best game I've played. I absolutely loved it, as have many of the other posters. I must say that the ending was a disappointment, though, assuming it is left in this state. The thing with creating such an epic trilogy as this one is that you absolutely have to provide closure, and lots of it (assuming this is the story's ending point). Yes, you get Shepard's point of view. What about Samara (possibly my favorite ME squadmate)? What about Miranda? What about all the races? Did Garrus and Tali stay together (in my playthrough they hooked up). What happens to Shepard's LI if he dies at the end? Even if the ending isn't changed/extended. I NEED to see closure to this fantastic story. Otherwise it just feels...hollow and cold.

Now that I got that off my chest I feel as though I should once again say how fantastic this game was. Really well done.

[Killer3000ad]

Has a video game ending ever pissed you off so much that you wanted to strangle a kitten?
ME3's ending is one of those.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 17 mars 2012 - 09:07 .

[barric00]

imho the endings would have been really good for a 10hr-gameplay action game with a mediocre storytelling and poor developed characters. At least people would have remembered the game for the epic/controversial ending. -My favourite is the synthesis one-.
The problem is, ME saga is NONE of the above.
I don't really care if Shepard lives or dies, I mean, of course I would have liked to see him/her travelling on the normandy with his/her friends again, and eventually setting up a family or something like that depending on your "sentimental choices", but even a sad ending would have been ok.
The problem is the destruction of the mass relays
the ME universe is well-studied and detailed, and with that aspect of the endings you basically murdered it.
A lot of people, for example, wrote fan fictions that take place in the ME universe, now they wont do that anymore, why should they bother/how could they?

[Doug M]

Jvolikas wrote...

Dap Brannigan wrote...

DCYNIGR8 wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

This is the best thing I have ever read on the internet. Ever.

Bravo, bwFex.

I just have to add my own support to this.  This is beautiful and expresses my sentiments exactly.  Your first playthrough of ME2 lost Mordin, mine lost Kelly and the crew because I took too long to get to the Omega 4 Relay.  SO what did I do?  I reworked, made a new plan, and took the action to save them.  OUR CHOICES MATTERED then and they should have for that starchild too.  It's just unfathomable to me how this could happen.

Anyway, I applaud you bwFex and all I can say is HOLD THE LINE. 

Quoting because bwFex is saying what I'm thinking and feeling.

Hold the line.

[Mcfly616]

For godsake....in the ending dlc please have the final confrontation with Harbinger....he's been a real "tough guy" talking all that smack from 1000's of lightyears away....now he's here...why wouldn't the Ultimate Hero and one true hope(Shep) do battle with the ultimate villain(Harbinger) for the fate of the galaxy?! It's a NO BRAINER! This was one of the expectations of ME3. Just as the cause and effect of your decisions on the suicide mission in ME2, were seen as a blue print of something to be further improved upon and implemented into the finale of ME3.....I know you all have this figured out already Bioware....you know what youre doing....I'm just venting because its hard to wait for an announcement or confirmation on my favorite series ever. I haven't gotten to sleep before 6am all week because I can't bring myself to play the games, yet its all I'm thinking about all night so I spend my nights here with these other passionate fans discussing the possibilities and working like some elite team of WWII code breakers trying to decode your damn cryptic messages.... "We're keeping our saves..."...."if you guys only knew what we were planning, you would hold onto your ME3 copies forever".... I'm gona have a full head of.gray hair or none at all by the time they officially address anything

[Kralizon]

First time posting and Id thought I would like to throw my 2 cents into the ring.  As far as the ending goes, I honestly do not feel it goes far enough. In my head (and this is just my interpretation)  I actually support and like the ending if I choose to look at it from a pure science fiction point of view.  I can understand the destruction of the citadel and the mass relays makes perfect sense in the way that their destruction breaks the cycle.  Remember the Reapers created them to control the new races of each cycle and forcing them all down the same technoligical evolutionary path path insuring that they lost their freedom of choice, although the younger races did not know that.  This sticks with the core of the games premise that sentient life that is free gets to make its own choice and have to be able to live with the consequences for good or bad.  The destruction of the relays now insures that the races that remain are free to make their own choices.  Remember while the relays are gone the ships still have FTL drives and access to plenty of star systems in the vicity of earth and all the major homeworlds have access to systems close to them.  Yes billions will probably still die from starvation, the races will have to pull themselves back and learn to create new technologiues that will help them adapt and overcome these challenges.  But now it will be on their own merit not someone else influence, they have the freedom to make their own choices. And if evolution teaches us, is that life finds a way (shiny M & M if anyone can guess what movie that line came from). Remember the relays were created a billion years ago by the long forgotten race that created the reapers (or the reapers themselves that is a story I still think needs telling).  What happens once can happen again.  So while yes the ending is bleak I am confident in the fact that humanity will survve and thrive as will most of the other races in the galaxy.

Now from a gamers perspective I am disappointed in the lack of closure. Bioware made us fall in love with these characters I would like to know what happens to them, what is their future?  DO they survive, do they die?  Do they have families, what happens?  Its very easy to cop out and say well we need to let go and leave it to our imagination. The story feels incomplete.  Bioware youre telling us a story, youve made it quite clear that this was supposed to be the one that wraos it all up.  In your minds you have an ending, and while yes I can come with my own in my head, curiosity alone compels me to ask for the end of your story.  The best way I feel I can describe this is comparing to Lord of the Rings, and for easy reference we will use the movies instead of the books.  What if the movie ended just after the ring was destoyed and the Sauron was destroyed and the very last scene was Frodo and Sam laying there on the rocks in the middle of the river of lava....cut to the credits. Ok what happens., does Aragorn become King, what happens to Gandalf, What happens to the hobbits?  That is how I feel here, You gave us these living breathing characters for us to enjoy, to empathize, to help with their problems, to get to know them and then you just end the game the way you did and tell us to deal.  I have a hard time accepting that. Again I really feel compelled to beg you to finish the story, you made it quite clear that youre ready to move on, but youre leaving your fans at the side of the road scratching their heads wondering where you were taking us in the first place.

Again let me iterate from a Science Fiction fan, writer, and enthusiast I enjoyed the ending for the meaning in my mind that it entails but from the gamer in me, I need to have closure.  Let me briefly share my perspective on this.  I lost my mass effect saves a long time ago so I basically played ME3 without the import.  I do full intend to play through the the whole series again.  For me it was all I could to resist jumping off a brdige after playing.  the game is filled with death and destruction, the action is great but the background is bleak and all looks hopeless, it was writing at its finest.  In my game Mordin dies, Eve dies, Tali dies, Miranda dies, Admiral Anderson dies and some of those deaths were pretty gut wrenching coupled with an ending that is bittersweet. Not too mention I had to watch an entire species get wiped out by the Geth who simply were defending their right to live, The choice I made killed millions of people..  Yes the good guys won but the cost is and will continue to be high for what looks like decades to come, some closure on the different team members that did survive would be welcome,  It is my fervent hope some if not all of them managed to survive and carry on meaningful lives. That alone would bring bright spots that brings some light into the darkness.

Now here several things that have me scratchijng my head..

 The bog loophole concerning the mass relays. You made it clear inThe Arrival DLC that the destruction of Mass Relays will insure the system they are will be completely destroyed.   Explanation on that might be good, cause the way I see it, yes I destroyed the reapers but I just killed Trillions on the process.including the combined fleets and earth.

2.  I spent all of ME2 being taunuted by Harbinger I was looking forward to kicking that chucklenut in the proverbial teeth.  Why no showdown with Harbinger???  That definately needs to be a DLC, I want to smack that synthetic bastard around.

3.  How did Joker pick up my squad so fast and beeline straight to the relay and why?  That, I agree with everyone, needs to be explained.

So Bioware Im not mad, I think the writing is fantastic, a story that will stick in my head for a long while.  But I feel....,incomplete.  I know the begining of the story, the middle of the story but now I dont know the end of the story.

Which brings me to my last thought concerning beginnings.  The Reapers were central to the story, in some way they are the main character.  I suspect that theres more to their origin than you could do in the construct of the three games.  But while you say this wraps things up, I would personnaly love to see another Mass Effect that deals with the origin of the Reapers and the begining of the 50000 year cycle that they so fervently believe in.  I would like to your take on how the mass murder of trillions blurred into what they call ascending the youger races to preserve organic life. In a sense I would love to know their story.

Thank your for listening.

[Zhen-Lin]

See this? I a nutshell

[Flyers215]

jeweledleah wrote...

the issue is that there's only one male LI avaialble to femshep in ME3.  and he can be dead if you want to save Ashley.  it didn't have to be James.  it could have been Joker.  or some other character.  but no.  its an issue.  it might not seem like an issue to you, but its still an issue.  straight male shepard gets at least one guaranteed female LI plus a female fling (another LI could potentialy be dead).  gay male shepard gets at least one guaranteed LI (second Li could potentialy be dead).  lesbian female shepard gets 2 guaranteed LI's plus a fling.  straight femshep gets.. no guaranteed LI's.  moreover. male shepard gets all 4 of his imported female LI's transfered over.  1 is a guaranteed suadmate, another is potential squadmate if you play your cards right.  last 2 get relatively significant cameos.  imported femshep romances?  one male LI dumps her and the other barely gets screen time before dying heroicaly.  still don't see the problem?

Samantha is great.  and Liara won me back over. but.  I like guys.  its my preference.  and I'm not the only one.  but somehow?  this particular preference, have fallen by the wayside.

Fair points, of course.  I'm sure there are more than a few players that aren't overly pleased with the amount of love interests for FemShep in the game.  It's a shame that they're displeased and it's surprising that Garrus wasn't kept.  I'm assuming that he's the one that dumps her.  I've never pursued any of those romances.  My Shepards have all been quite asexual until Samantha came along.

I'm not sure what all these ManShep romances are either since I've never played him.

I also don't consider Liara to be a straight or homosexual love interest considering Liara has no gender.

[xxskyshadowxx]

Sir Craven wrote...

Just one more voice for the choir from a long-term Bioware fan here; I've started out with the original Baldur's Gate more than a decade ago and have bought almost any Bioware title since then without waiting for reviews as their level of quality has always proven to be high. I've never felt disappointed by any Bioware game before.

ME3 has many great moments that really created an enjoyable experience (the many character interactions, the heart-wrenching self-sacrifice of Mordin, the death of Thane, etc etc); all this has been said before by others.

But the (non-) endings ruined it all for me. The reasons have been argued by people more eloquent than myself, I don't need to repeat them in detail (plot holes, glaring logic errors, invalidating everything we've done in ME1 and ME2, destroying everything we fought for). Never before have I felt so let down, not to say outright depressed, by the ending of any Bioware game. That's not what I play games for. Having a "dark" ending as an option is okay, but you need to give us the chance to "save the day".

I had planned to do multiple play-throughs with my ME2 Shepards just to see how everything influences the final outcome but when I saw the ending all my desire to play the game again just vanished. Then I watched the "ending comparison" video on YT. I just have no words.

For ME2 I've bought almost all available DLC even though I despise the very concept of it, because the experience, the characters and the universe you've created were so great. Unless ME3 gets a satisfactory ending via free DLC/patch/whatever where the only outcome is NOT doom and gloom, death and despair I'll refrain from buying any more DLCs.

And you know what? Even if the "good ending" will cost money, I'll probably buy it just to get some "real" closure for this journey that has spanned the last  several years. But then I'll be done with Bioware games. And add EA to the list.

Regards,
a very disappointed customer

Very well said. What bothered me the most and still bothers me now, days after completing the game, is that in ME2 it was alluded (unless I misinterpreted the plot--it's possible and please tell me I did) that if the Relays are destroyed, the galaxy goes with them. So the whole "Take earth back" campaign is a sick farce. Shepard bascially replaces the Reapers and destroys everything and the Cycle ends, regardless of what choice  is made. The only bright side is Liara, knowing how awful it was trying to figure out how to stop the Reapers catalogued everything for the next Cycle. I didn't need a Care Bear ending. I was fine with Shepard dying; it's what he/she would do without hesitation to save everyone. The fact that his/her very sacrifice does exactly what he/she has given up everything to prevent is a staggering atrocity, and some of the worst writing I have ever encountered (Do I suddenly hear relieved, slightly hysterical  laughter from George Lucas?).....and it's all the more painful because everything leading right up to it was absolutely great.  I wanted to play the whole trilogy over and over again when ME3 first came out. Now, I've thrown the games into a box in my basement to prevent myself from snapping the discs in half.

I've always bought Bioware games on release day, always. Never again. If I can bring myself to play another Bioware game after this, I'll rent or buy it used.

[DarthSyphilis59]

So many great moments throughout the whole trilogy! But like a lot of people I would like to help mass effects ending. Here's an idea I have. It's been posted in a couple of other places to help provoke discussion. Feel free to build upon it, rip it apart, or use it to inspire better ideas. I just want mass effect to get the ending it deserves.

Whatever happens, I want to  emphasize that using the
endoctrination theory, whether intentional or unintentional, is really
the best means of delivering change. It fits the canon of mass effect and is consistent with what the reapers are trying to accomplish. If shepard (in his mind)
chooses NOT to fall into the traps of believing he can control the
reapers (what illusive man wanted), or synthesize organics and machines
(what saren wanted), he could "hold the line" by realizing "I've come to
far. I can't just let the reapers win. I must destroy them." Shepard
wakes up in the rubble from Harbinger's blast, maybe a STG/krogan/turian
squad pulls him out gives him medigel patches him up and gets him ready
to finish the fight. He would still be hurt but able to command.
Squad(s) comes with shepard throught the conduit and help secure the
citadel. They open its arms so the crucible can dock. The real purpose
of the crucible is still unknown. Tali being a tech expert could be sent
with some others to help get it working. While Tali works on
interfacing crucible with catalyst (citadel) shepard is picked up by the
normandy to direct space forces to help protect  the crucible. "Cut the
head off the snake and the body dies"-Eventually you have to take on
the leader of the Reapers (Harbinger) in order to have a chance at
scattering the remaining reaper forces. Huge choices can be made here
that will have impact on the outcome of the war. Concentrating all fire
power on Harbinger could result in devastating losses, but could be a
big push in winning the war. (Amount of war assets would play a role in
outcome). Harbinger really needs to have a bigger role in the showdown.
Show more
of the epic spacefight between reapers and your war assets (STG, rachni,
geth, turians, quarians, etc.). Finally the crucible is online and is
used to help in weakening the reaper fleet (how? that choice is open for
debate). More war assets=greater chance of
success. Low war assets=Reapers destroy fleet, medium assets=reapers
numbers are cut down and are forced to return to dark space, high
assets=Reaper fleet being destroyed. Please make the final battle show
more of the fleet fighting with the reapers. The opening scenes to the
space fight were amazing; build on that if possible. This is a huge
opportunity for mass effect to be enshrined as the greatest story ever
told.

Your thoughts?

[darkshadow136]

 Dear Bioware,

The game play up to the last part of
ME3 was great, but the end of the game ruined the entire series and the
franchise. The parts that ruined the game for me are listed below.

1.1.        
The endings for the game were
horrible 3 choices that led to 16 variations of the same black. No variety like
promised, all the endings shared 95% the same cut scenes. We were promised
throughout the series that all our choices would shape not only our Sheppard
but the galaxy and the final ending to the series; this was taken away in the
final 15 minutes of the game. You can’t just take an interactive game built on
choice and make it into a linear game in the final moments.

1.2.        
Multi player content should have no
effect on the single player campaign. There is a reason why no other game has implemented
this, since not everyone like multi player. A player should be able to reach
100% galactic readiness without having to play multi player.

1.3.        
I did not like that after you make it
clear to Cortez that you are not interested in him, that he still seems to push
you towards liking him in future conversations. My personal beliefs I don’t
approve of the Homosexual lifestyle, and I don’t feel I need to have that
pushed on  my in a game.

1.4.        
We want our endings more varied and distinct
from each other like was promised, having all our choices taken into account in
the final outcome.

1.5.        
Fill the plot holes give us a real back
round on the Reapers, and their purpose, bring Harbringer into the picture
more.

1.6.        
For those that ME3 is their first
exposure to the ME universe, offer them a DLC that allows them to make the
choices they would have had a chance to if they played ME1-ME2. This will make
more revenue for Bioware in a DLC purchase, and give the player a chance to
have a real full ME3 experience and a bump in galactic readiness to help with
their ending.

1.7.        
The Rachni were always represented in
ME1/ME2 as being an important part of ME3, and in ME3 they played a very small
part. We had to save them again, and all they did was help build the crucible.
We should have seen some Rachni ships in our fleet and so on.

1.8.        
We were also told in previous
magazine interviews prior to release that Cerberus was going to be an enemy,
and that we should make sure to destroy the collector base  in our ME2 saves, This was so the illusive man
would not get a hold of Reaper tech. Well I destroyed the collector base and
the Illusive man still got a hold of Reaper tech. How he got acquired Reaper
tech needs to be explained.

1.9.        
One of the pieces of feedback many of
us asked for was the return of the Mako Tank and exploration missions. That
feedback seems to have fallen on deaf ears since we have no Mako missions in
ME3.

1.10.   
We had Loyalty missions in ME2 and it
would have been nice to have them with the new squad members of ME3, it added
immersion into the relationships with the characters.

1.11.   
A helmet toggle option similar to
what we had in ME1 would be nice, especially with the custom sets of armor we
got from pre-orders, and import saves.

1.12.   
If you are going to have 16 variations
on the ending fine. But You could cut that to 6 endings and make them so varied
and different it would make a more complete experience, with a excellent, very
good, good, neutral, bad, very bad ending. The key thing being that it takes
our past choices and actions into account, not just war assets and galactic readiness.

I know that if at least the endings
are not redone I will no longer purchase products from Bioware, and the ending
DLC should be free, since we already paid for a proper ending to the game we
purchased. People make the argument that the game is Art and not subject to
pressure to change.

I make the argument that an
Interactive game like the Mass Effect series, in which certain promises and
descriptions and player game shaping was established by the company makes it a Commercial
product , with art aspects, and a every changing storyline, sue to the players participation
in the creative process. ME3 is not a piece of art to mat and hang on a wall
and it is not a 1st edition book to place in a protective case.

When customers like us give you Bioware
5 years of our life playing your series, making choices, taking different paths
on different Sheppard’s so we can have a complete experience, and that trilogy
is ended in the linear way you chose to do, it was a betrayal not only to your
customers, but to the epic masterpiece that we have helped you shape over the
last 5 years.

Bioware it is time for you to be
Sheppard, and you have a new mission, gain back our loyalty so we can together battle
and claim victory over the Reapers.

[ohmic12]

Best gaming series i have ever played apart from the last 5mins

[jeweledleah]

Flyers215 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

the issue is that there's only one male LI avaialble to femshep in ME3.  and he can be dead if you want to save Ashley.  it didn't have to be James.  it could have been Joker.  or some other character.  but no.  its an issue.  it might not seem like an issue to you, but its still an issue.  straight male shepard gets at least one guaranteed female LI plus a female fling (another LI could potentialy be dead).  gay male shepard gets at least one guaranteed LI (second Li could potentialy be dead).  lesbian female shepard gets 2 guaranteed LI's plus a fling.  straight femshep gets.. no guaranteed LI's.  moreover. male shepard gets all 4 of his imported female LI's transfered over.  1 is a guaranteed suadmate, another is potential squadmate if you play your cards right.  last 2 get relatively significant cameos.  imported femshep romances?  one male LI dumps her and the other barely gets screen time before dying heroicaly.  still don't see the problem?

Samantha is great.  and Liara won me back over. but.  I like guys.  its my preference.  and I'm not the only one.  but somehow?  this particular preference, have fallen by the wayside.

Fair points, of course.  I'm sure there are more than a few players that aren't overly pleased with the amount of love interests for FemShep in the game.  It's a shame that they're displeased and it's surprising that Garrus wasn't kept.  I'm assuming that he's the one that dumps her.  I've never pursued any of those romances.  My Shepards have all been quite asexual until Samantha came along.

I'm not sure what all these ManShep romances are either since I've never played him.

I also don't consider Liara to be a straight or homosexual love interest considering Liara has no gender.

no, they kept Garrus as imported romance only - his romance is actualy quite sweet. the outcry that would happen if Garrus dumped Shepard would have rivaled the one we are getting for endings right now.  Jacob always dumps Shepard. Thane always dies. Kaidan is dead if you save Ashley

however - Liara is most certainly a female.  Asari are monogendered, NOT genderless.  they look female and from a perspective of a human - they ARE female.  by pretty much entirety of the fanbase, she is concidered to be a female love interest.

nonetheless.

James is a wasted opportunity IMO.  especialy with all the flirting and teasing.

then again, with endings the way they are, replayability is nonexistant anyways.

[xxskyshadowxx]

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

So many great moments throughout the whole trilogy! But like a lot of people I would like to help mass effects ending. Here's an idea I have. It's been posted in a couple of other places to help provoke discussion. Feel free to build upon it, rip it apart, or use it to inspire better ideas. I just want mass effect to get the ending it deserves.

Whatever happens, I want to  emphasize that using the
endoctrination theory, whether intentional or unintentional, is really
the best means of delivering change. It fits the canon of mass effect and is consistent with what the reapers are trying to accomplish. If shepard (in his mind)
chooses NOT to fall into the traps of believing he can control the
reapers (what illusive man wanted), or synthesize organics and machines
(what saren wanted), he could "hold the line" by realizing "I've come to
far. I can't just let the reapers win. I must destroy them." Shepard
wakes up in the rubble from Harbinger's blast, maybe a STG/krogan/turian
squad pulls him out gives him medigel patches him up and gets him ready
to finish the fight. He would still be hurt but able to command.
Squad(s) comes with shepard throught the conduit and help secure the
citadel. They open its arms so the crucible can dock. The real purpose
of the crucible is still unknown. Tali being a tech expert could be sent
with some others to help get it working. While Tali works on
interfacing crucible with catalyst (citadel) shepard is picked up by the
normandy to direct space forces to help protect  the crucible. "Cut the
head off the snake and the body dies"-Eventually you have to take on
the leader of the Reapers (Harbinger) in order to have a chance at
scattering the remaining reaper forces. Huge choices can be made here
that will have impact on the outcome of the war. Concentrating all fire
power on Harbinger could result in devastating losses, but could be a
big push in winning the war. (Amount of war assets would play a role in
outcome). Harbinger really needs to have a bigger role in the showdown.
Show more
of the epic spacefight between reapers and your war assets (STG, rachni,
geth, turians, quarians, etc.). Finally the crucible is online and is
used to help in weakening the reaper fleet (how? that choice is open for
debate). More war assets=greater chance of
success. Low war assets=Reapers destroy fleet, medium assets=reapers
numbers are cut down and are forced to return to dark space, high
assets=Reaper fleet being destroyed. Please make the final battle show
more of the fleet fighting with the reapers. The opening scenes to the
space fight were amazing; build on that if possible. This is a huge
opportunity for mass effect to be enshrined as the greatest story ever
told.

Your thoughts?

I like it and would like to add, that there needs to be a decent-length epilogue.....and leave the damn Relays alone!

If Shepard doesn't sacrifice his/her life, I'd like to see the epilogue cover him/her maybe experiencing some survivor's guilt. Maybe there was more he/she could do....if only they hadn't failed in obtaining the Catalyst that first time, and Garrus and/or whatever LI helps him/her grapple with it (I really would like that since in ME3 you really see Shepard's humanity and the toll everything is taking). I'd like to see how the races who made it recover/rebuild. How is Thessia? If it cannot be recovered, maybe the refuges can go to earth.  It might even be a good idea for Shepard to share the Star Child's message with Liara during his/her indoctrination, about the underlying problem with organics and synthetics co-existing, and she decides to add that to her video record, along with their thoughts and theories about how to avoid the chaos, etc. Then at the end of all the epilogue-ish stuff...Shepard and the Dr. have that drink together...roll credits and the snippet with the grandfather and child will pull that last heart string.

Modifié par xxskyshadowxx, 17 mars 2012 - 09:36 .

[armorrekka]

Garrus would be dead if you choose to destroy the reapers because he has implants after the damage he received in mass effect 2.

Just a random thought

[G00N3R7883]

Having slept on it, the endings have grown on me a little bit, but I still think it was very poorly handled. The moral choices themselves are fine. I expected having to make a choice about how to use the crucible, should we destroy or control the Reapers. The Illusive Man's research made it obvious that possibility was coming. The synthesis choice was unexpected but it makes sense.

I don't like the fact that multiplayer can have any influence at all in the singleplayer ending. We shouldn't have to grind every little fetch quest, or possibly make out of character moral choices, to get all 3 choices. Fortunately I managed to get "my" choice without touching the multiplayer. Alot of people consider the synthesis choice as the "best" ending. I don't agree. I personally view synthesis as the ending of organic life, which is exactly what we've been fighting to avoid. I don't agree with the control option either. Whether its morally right or wrong is irrelevant to me. In my mind, when you face a threat like the Reapers, and you have a chance to end them, you do it. If the control fails as some point in the future, and the Reapers attack again, we'd all be wishing we put them down when we had the chance.

So yeah I chose to destroy them. Earlier in the game, either admiral Hackett or Anderson told me to show no mercy and I totally agreed with them. Its unfortunate that the Geth had to die as well. I felt really good after forging peace between them and the Quarians. But again, earlier I had a conversation with Garrus about sacrificing 10 billion lives over here to save 20 billion over there, and I totally agreed. Before I even played ME3 I was prepared for a possible ending where it became necessary to sacrifice Earth to save the rest of the galaxy, and I told myself I would do that. As it turns out, the sacrifice belonged to the Geth. And Shepard died. That's okay. He died a hero. My Shepard wouldn't make a different choice just to save himself. The wierd AI claimed this choice would eventually lead to the destruction of all organic life. Sorry but I'm not just going to take its word. It could be wrong. We just defeated the Reapers, we can defeat the next bunch of synthetics as well.

The Mass Effect relays have been destroyed. That's not ideal, but assuming we can get clarification that they didn't blow up all those star systems like the ME2 Arrival situation, its acceptable. The Reapers caused alot of destruction, it will take everyone years to rebuild. The relays, or another form of travel, is just one more thing.

The biggest thing that I cannot get my head around at this point in time, that is preventing me from having an acceptable level of closure, is not knowing the fate of all my crewmates. I saw Joker, Ash and James in the final cutscene, but everyone else is a huge question mark. Dead or alive doesn't matter to a certain extent, because I'll have an emotional reaction either way. But the not knowing either way leaves a hollow feeling.

Of course the whole idea about re-writing the ending based on indoctrination, is okay with me too. It would set a dangerous precedent to release a game's proper ending as paid for DLC (its bad enough that minor parts are cut out of games these days), but at the end of the day I can make an exception for Mass Effect if it makes it more awesome.

Modifié par G00N3R7883, 17 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[xxskyshadowxx]

They can just use the same space magic that resurrected Liara from the dead and teleported her onto the Normandy after she participated in the Harbinger run....dangit.

[Gre3nham]

I think Bioware should release DLC that takes place reasonably early in the game. It could be a simple 15min side mission or a two hour long subplot. During this mission Shepard should find a ancient device that can interface with the catalyst. Obviously, as the time, he wouldn't know how it works or what it does, but come the ending, it triggers, and opens up alternate endings (possibly branching off before the star child scene.

I would prefer the endings to be retconed completely (as in the indoctrination theory), but I don't see Bioware doing that. This option allows them to keep the current ending, whilst allowing dissatisfied players a better one.