23455 réponses à ce sujet

[XTiferethX]

Great thread about damage control. Must read
http://social.biowar...ndex/10084349/1

[Rodia Driftwood]

An good epilogue involving Shepard's LI. *cough* Tali's face *face*.

[TheoRuffy]

The ending was just frustating.

The whole was amazing, until the end. I'm no kidding, i cried when Mordin sacrificed himself in Tuchanka, almost tunred back on my decision on help the rachini queen when i saw Grunt were going to die. Loved the virtual reallity mission, with an awesome insight of the Geth. But the ending don't even get near in the quality of the rest of the game.

The whole catalyst thing is poor explainded. The whole reaper thing needs a better explanation. An the choices that are present, NONE of them feels like a victory at the end. Killing Sovereing and Saren. Victory. Killing the Proto-Reaper and destroying the collectors base. Victory. And when we go to the last game, the one that suposed to be the epic ending, every option fells like a loss.

I always tought that in the end Sheppard would have to sacrifice his life to end the damn war, but as i already said, the sheppard sacrifice don't even get close to the other 3 friends you have to see dying in ME3.

The game too needs a good epilogue. Ins't it suposed to be the end of a great journey? What happened to our friends? To the Quarin and the Geth? Wich effect curing the Genophage will caus to the long run of the Galaxy? I really imagined you guys would do something like the ending of Dragon Age: Origins, were you SHOW what you choices would cause in the future.

And the whole getting everything ready thing, gathering allies, playing that boring multiplayer just to get the 100% readiness, qhen in the end, i think it doesn't really make that difference.

One of the best quotes in this fórum i've seen that best express my opinion.

goose2989
"I am genuinely shocked that this is how Bioware felt they should end Shepard's story."

Really hope they hear our pleas. I don't think it should be like in the post, despite it being the most epic ending i could've imagined to the "sheppard" history, but at least a decent one they own us fans.

[cerberus1701]

Yes, we are listening and on or before PAX we're going to release a statement explainig just how perfect they were.

[RobinEJ]

I'm from Poland. But today I totally agree with Hitler:

[Grasich]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

wow... really? "Hey guys, let's totally divert your attention from your complaints. What did you LIKE about it?" and what the hell is "engagin in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game"? Basically, "Let's just delay having to do anything about this and hope the problem goes away"

Enough with the corporate BS bioware, you aren't earning any favors in my book.

[blueduck1982]

 Am I the only one who actually loved and understood the ending?!  The end was my favourite part. I just thought it was pure genius, how Bioware indoctrinated the player to indoctrinate Shepard (or not). The most amazing and emotional ending to a game I have ever experienced! 

[SirusXGB]

 I just want to say that I love the entire mass effect trilogy, the story is just flat out awesome and it has a lot of journey of the hero elements. With that being said I do agree with most of the community in saying that I am not thrilled with the ending but not for the same reason as most. I feel that no matter if you were good or bad, paragon or renegade, that it was always going to turn out the same in the end, you just did what you had to do to get there. My main problem is I logged so many hours in the game and enjoyed them but in the end I expected a long cinematic that doesn't raise anymore questions but answers everything. I mean I was so confused at the end especially when the relays were being destroyed and the Normandy was flying though one, why was that happening? Looking past that though where did they crash land, and why was my love interest walking out of the ship with gimpy joker?? And why was she (liara) smiling, I mean as far as she knows, I'm dead. It kinda made me feel as if her and joker had something going on behind my back. 
 To sum it up I want to congratulate bioware on a great game but I think to make it legendary you need to fix the end by explaining things a bit better and making the cinematic a little longer and a little more epic, and if you do I suppose we can all forget that this ever happened

[ssgt thompson1]

My favorite moments were all in mass effect 1... then EA took over.

[SimonM72]

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

Fantastic Post very well said.
/signed.

[Motherlander]

I am afraid Bioware are deluded if they think that people are going to stop talking about the endings.

On the other hand, we are also being told that talking about the endings somehow makes it better because it is a point of discussion.

This is incorrect logic.

If the endings were acceptable to fans in general, we would not be putting so much energy into writing on these forums. We would be busy playing the game again to experince that satisfactory ending with a new character and then discussing characters/story topics in the forum.

Or there would be discussion topics generally praising Bioware's wonderful trilogy and saying what a wonderful experience it was. There would be of course be a few threads criticising the endings, but these would be ignored or refuted by the bulk of the satisfied fans.

This is not happeneing. The only positive threads about the ending are in reaction to the negative reaction.

Instead there is thread after thread from people criticising the ending rather than playing the game.

Sorry Bioware. But if there are so many people spending more times talking about the ending than actually playing the game, then in my eyes you have failed.

Modifié par Motherlander, 17 mars 2012 - 02:42 .

[joiner87]

I really want them to listen this time

DA2, enough said

[rollspelosofen]

 I'm a big fan of the Mass Effect triology even though I didn't start playing on it until it had been out on the market for a while. I started playing the first ME just after the second ME had been released, I was grasped by the ingenuity of being able to continue playing on a character of your own, where your decisions mattered, in an entirely new videogame. Once I learned more about the characters and the universe I became enthralled.

There are several scenes and moments in ME3 that touches me on a personal level. Since my Shepard is a woman and has a going relationship with a Turian I appreciated every moment Shepard and Garrus spent together, where they expressed their love and concerns for one another through either speech or touch. I'm not sure what scenes would have been different if your Shepard didn't have a relationship with a Garrus but what I got to see was very touching.

But nothing could compare with the experience I had having my Shepard walk around in the refugee camp on the Citadel and actually feel the culturual mix of several different species from around the galaxy. This was where the culture of Batarians, Turians, Asaris and what not blended to become one. In one place there was a Batarian selling weapons and right next door a Batarian tatoo artist was working on giving James Vega a little more ink. In the other end of the of the camp a woman was showing off with her Shepard VI and on the opposite side there were a few Eclipse mercs contemplating their future. Over the course of the game I kept coming back to this place to see what else was going on.

I'm not sure if my Wow-experienece with this was what Bioware had intended but there it is.

Now, what really disappointed me(and lots of others as well)...

During my gameplay of the whole ME triology I've had a considerable admiration for the writers of the story. I'm a writer myself and I could never dream of coming of up with a story of this magnitude, one that would be so interactive and through that also having so much power of the player/reader. I was really looking forward to the ending of ME3 and was expected to be blown away, just like I had been several other times over the course of the triology.

Imagine my disappointment when I realised that Bioware was playing the Deus Ex Machine, which is not only a pure sign of lack of creativity but is also a huge betrayal of the fans. As a writer I always try my best to make each story I put together pull it's weight at the end and I would never even dream of using the Deus Ex Machine. Not even the old greeks, who invented the cocept of the DEM, saw it as a very good ending.

Where did it go wrong? Bioware, what happaned? 

[Aesieru]

According to Hudson's most recent comment they are indeed listening, they are just not hearing anything.

[David Falkayn]

SpuDSheraM wrote...

That *might* be them saying we are going to offer an alternate ending for the true fans?

I hate that phrase, "true fan", because it says that if you don't agree with my interpretation, then you're not really a fan.  Those who like the endings are every bit as "true" fans as those who have problems with them.  We all enjoy this game: writers, developers, players who love the endings, players who loathe the endings, and all those in between and we all should want to see it grow and become even bigger and better.

Personally, I think that through 99% of the story, the developers and writers succeeded, it's just that I think that towards the end, they did what so many others have done--they got so focused on creating their ART that they forgot that they were creating INTERACTIVE art--that we wanted our Shepard's stories to be concluded--and here I think they stumbled a bit.  Cosmic Truths are all well and good, but a story also has to be entertaining--it has to leave all participants satisfied.

Modifié par David Falkayn, 17 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[Grasich]

blueduck1982 wrote...

 Am I the only one who actually loved and understood the ending?!  The end was my favourite part. I just thought it was pure genius, how Bioware indoctrinated the player to indoctrinate Shepard (or not). The most amazing and emotional ending to a game I have ever experienced! 

The problem is evidence has surfaced that basically refutes this theory. I still go with it, simply because it makes the ending bearable.

If bioware just releases DLC (preferably free, if they want to retain my loyalty) that just adds onto the ending with a "Hey guess what, you were indoctrinated, now go have an epic boss battle with harbinger and actually save the galaxy." Then I'll be at least OK with them again. Until they do this though, to hell with them.

[Robin_DvX]

My favourite moment? That moment where all was for naught.

Oh, you meant in a non-sarcastic way?

[ek5000]

Casey Hudson wrote...

But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories--and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series.

How can there possibly be "more closure" when there was none to begin with?

More answers? Damn right I need more answers, the ending gave me a whole lot more questions than it "answered".

Give me a break.

The statement, from which I selected the above quote, is an insult to the people who are asking for a change.

BioWare is guilty of false advertisement and now belittling its fans, time for them to man up and atleast aknowledge it.

Or better yet, fix the situation.

[Ryokun1989]

Changing an ending because of some fan outrage would be a sell out to the people who do like the endings. Most fans don't even get the concept of why this ending is so much more interesting than an explanation of events. Some writers choose for no catharsis and for a game like Mass Effect that is a new and bold step to take. I never thought a seriers like this could or would do that, but now they did, it's like a miracle in storytelling happened. But most people won't get that anyway. So just keep it the way it is please. I loved it.

Modifié par Ryokun1989, 17 mars 2012 - 02:51 .

[NotCras]

SimonM72 wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

Fantastic Post very well said.
/signed.

This is absolutely perfect Id definitely sign this. It really explains my thoughts on the matter.
(which have taken up a lot of my blog found here)

[xXdmndmnXx]

RobinEJ wrote...

I'm from Poland. But today I totally agree with Hitler:

Haha just watched it and one of the comments over there made me ROFL

"
Dragon Age 3 ending: Hawk meets AI Kid. AI kid gives Hawk
three options, kill the Templars but sacrifice himself and the mage's,
kill the Mages and sacrifices himself and the Templars, or option three,
Syncs himself with the Mages and Templars to create Optimus Prime.
Seems legit."

:lol:

[xXdmndmnXx]

NotCras wrote...

SimonM72 wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

Fantastic Post very well said.
/signed.

This is absolutely perfect Id definitely sign this. It really explains my thoughts on the matter.
(which have taken up a lot of my blog found here)

Word. Where do i sign?

[OddArtiste]

There were a lot of great parts of ME3, the heartbreaking decision with Mordin and the Genophage and the peace between Quarians and Geth just to name a few. When I later came to the ending, all of that kinda felt wasted...
You really can't have a bittersweet ending without the sweet part, and you can't have a speculative ending where all the speculation is about how to change it and trying to figure out how it even makes sense...

If it would have ended with Shepard activating the Crucible with his last breath, after seeing Anderson die and remembering all of his friends who were lost alongside all the other sacrifices that were made as a result of the Reaper War, and the Relays surviving the Crucible. Then it would have felt like all those sacrifices were worth it, and it would have felt like you had completed your mission to save the galaxy even if a lot was lost along the way.

As it stands now, it doesn't feel like you've accomplished all that much really. Sure, the Reapers are gone but so are the Relays, which most likely means everyone who survived are doomed seeing as the Relays were in many ways the backbone of all civilizations, and they are now trapped in the Sol System. Even if FTL travel is sufficient to reach their homeplanets, they are still going to have a painful existence seeing as they can't trade or communicate with other planets.
All your previous sacrifices, along with the ultimate sacrifice, your own life, doesn't really mean that much seeing as you sacrified the ME universe along with it. That isn't bittersweet, it's just bitter.

The part with the Normandy feels like a last attempt at adding that sweet feeling to the ending, "Oh look, your friends made it in the end and they can live happily ever after!".
The thing is, everything about that scene makes no sense... How did the people who were with me in the final push get to the Normandy? Why did they return to the Normandy? Why did the Normandy leave the battle? Why was the Normandy affected by the Crucible? How did the Normandy survive the landing on the planet without anyone inside being wounded? Why is everyone happy when they just left Shepard to die?
These don't feel like the type of questions a speculative ending should have, there is just no logic to that scene and it doesn't make the ending any happier, if that was what it was supposed to do.

The only real questions the ending left me with was, "How does this make any sense?", and "I didn't really win, I just doomed everyone, huh?". An ending that makes your fans want to look for ways to prove it didn't really happen doesn't really sound like a good ending... 
Now, I realize how crazy releasing an ending via DLC would be, and I doubt something like that would ever happen.
After thinking about it for a week now, I can accept you wanting the trilogy to end this way, but the nonsensical way it was pulled off, and the feeling of defeat and lack of closure other than "Everyone most likely died, good job!" managed to deflate my love of Mass Effect significantly, and that is a love that was greater than for any other video game ever.

If I could just get a logical answer to the parts of the ending that didn't make sense, I could live happily with this ending, even if it was a huge bummer. But the lack of logic for a lot of it makes it hard to swallow...

Modifié par OddArtiste, 17 mars 2012 - 03:11 .

[JulienJaden]

The saddest thing just happened to me. (Well, sad for a First World guy like me.)

I was listening to "I'm Proud Of You" and went to the wardrobe I keep all my games in.
I've been so invested in the protest, was so depressed by the ending that doesn't seem to do Shepard justice that I didn't notice at all that, no matter if they change the ending or not, this is the end of a journey.
I looked over my collection, saw Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 side by side, the game's music in the background and it just hit me.
All those moments coming back to me... Feels like ages since Mass Effect wasn't a part of my life.

Now, BioWare: This doesn't mean I change my opinion. There's still so much wrong with the ending and I really hope you see why it should be changed. I put all my effort into presenting some solutions, giving some examples of possible endings I'd put in, if it was up to me, over at the suggestion thread.

But no matter what happens: I still owe you guys a thanks for one of the greatest stories of our lifetime. I hope that all the suggestions that are coming in will give you the raw material to craft something all of us are satisfied with and that gives an amazing story a worthy, unique ending for every one of us and every Shepard out there.

[David Falkayn]

rollspelosofen wrote...

 There are several scenes and moments in ME3 that touches me on a personal level. Since my Shepard is a woman and has a going relationship with a Turian I appreciated every moment Shepard and Garrus spent together, where they expressed their love and concerns for one another through either speech or touch. I'm not sure what scenes would have been different if your Shepard didn't have a relationship with a Garrus but what I got to see was very touching.

But nothing could compare with the experience I had having my Shepard walk around in the refugee camp on the Citadel and actually feel the culturual mix of several different species from around the galaxy. This was where the culture of Batarians, Turians, Asaris and what not blended to become one. In one place there was a Batarian selling weapons and right next door a Batarian tatoo artist was working on giving James Vega a little more ink. In the other end of the of the camp a woman was showing off with her Shepard VI and on the opposite side there were a few Eclipse mercs contemplating their future. Over the course of the game I kept coming back to this place to see what else was going on.

I agree with you--it's the little things that make this game great--and, make no mistake, I do think it is a great game.  I need to do a trilogy playthrough with a femshep/Garrus romance--I've heard so much good about it and I was surpisingly touched by my manshep/Jack paragon romance.  And yes, through 99% of the game, Bioware does do a great job in making you feel the consequences of your actions--I still have my manshep who cheated on Liara with Miranda staying on the shuttle on Mars because he's scared to death about meeting up with Liara again.  Ya play...ya pay!

Now, what really disappointed me(and lots of others as well)...

During my gameplay of the whole ME triology I've had a considerable admiration for the writers of the story. I'm a writer myself and I could never dream of coming of up with a story of this magnitude, one that would be so interactive and through that also having so much power of the player/reader. I was really looking forward to the ending of ME3 and was expected to be blown away, just like I had been several other times over the course of the triology.

Imagine my disappointment when I realised that Bioware was playing the Deus Ex Machine, which is not only a pure sign of lack of creativity but is also a huge betrayal of the fans. As a writer I always try my best to make each story I put together pull it's weight at the end and I would never even dream of using the Deus Ex Machine. Not even the old greeks, who invented the cocept of the DEM, saw it as a very good ending.

Where did it go wrong? Bioware, what happaned? 

The writers did do a great job and I think we all too often lose sight of that.  I think though that, while your argument regarding their playing the Deus ex Machina card is a good one--I still can't shake my feeling that the writers just got so absorbed in creating their ART that they forgot to ENTERTAIN.  They forced us to watch their Shepard's story to unfold rather than allowing us to end our Shepard's stories.