23455 réponses à ce sujet

[WilliamDracul88]

Can ONE guy from Bioware KINDLY answer our demands? Thanks.
THANKS.

[DannieCraft]

 I finished ME3 with more than a bittersweet feeling. Happy, sad and very confused.

Happy that it had come to an end. Sad that there was no way Shepard could get away with a peaceful retirement. Very confused over all the gaps in the story toward the end.

The game, over all, is a great experience. It has all I expected of a Mass Effect game (apart from the ending).

To me, the most memorable moments in the game was no doubt during the final battle at earth.
First, the (very well written, and I appreciate that) dialogue between Shepard, Love Interest and friends/crewmembers on his way to start the final push. And then the apocalyptic cityscape of London. 

I want to recall they taught me this in school:
"the key to making something dramatic is to find strength in the weakest moment".
Towards the ending, after being hit by that reaper blast - Shepard was weak. I was exited to see
what was going to happen next. But that final moment of strength never came. Instead he just gave up to the "Citadel Mind" and chose one of the 3 options presented. It felt like the Reapers won either way, because using
the crucible destroyed all the mass relays, making galactic traveling impossible.

This was the disappointing moment for me. There was no consideration of all the war efforts.
I had over 7k+ support and 100% readyness in the end. There was not a single starsystem I had not scanned or quest I had not done.

Outside the citadel, the armies and fleets of all races from the ME universe had gathered to bring an end to the invasion - and they were proud of it. Century long conflicts had ended, Geth had made peace with the Quarians, Krogans and Turians were united, and even since long extinct races was cloned to come along for the ride. They were ready to die to stop the Reapers, but they didn't get the chance to prove themselves.

After making the final choice I was lacking closure in order to make Shepards sacrifice count. So many new questions. Why was there only human remains on the citadel? What happened to all the worlds he saved? Would the massive war fleets ever be able to return to their worlds without the Mass Relays? (not likely)  Why was not each starsystem holding a Mass Relay destroyed (as their explosion have the blasting power of a supernova) and even more importantly for me - with Shepard dying a second time, how is his LI and companions holding up? The few we get to see are standing on a jungle planet looking at the sky (I am just waiting for the Predators to come and hunt them).

I hope that perhaps Shepard will wake up from the citadel nightmare at the memorial hospital, this time with his LI visiting saying he passed out for a while (see, drama - connect to the beginning, roles changed), and admiral hackett saying that the fleet defeated the reapers and that life carries on the way it was supposed to, the Mass Relays are still intact and all gaps are filled in. In the end it was not only Shepard that won the war, but all of the species together. The crucible was only meant to change the Reapers way of thinking, a counter indoctrination, that is why it never fired.

Modifié par DannieCraft, 17 mars 2012 - 06:30 .

[Bergy_si]

Great game, loved the story (got a tear in my eye when Legion said "I" and died).

But, there is always a but... And like many others I don't like some things about the ending (I don't like the idea, that after finishing this game, I can still continue in time before the final mission, I would prefer a DLC after the ending, but I guess that is not possible, because not everyone survived... but lets focus on story):

--> Why was Normandy -one of the most advanced war ships, not fighting the Reapers, why was it flaying around with the squad-mates that were a few minutes ago with me (can't figure this one out)?

--> And like many others I didn't liked that kid at the end (also 1 dream was enough, the other two could be shorter).

--> I got 6k+ support, so Earth was not destroyed, but how can the same wave destroy Earth if you get less support, that does not make sense... If less support it should be harder to get on the Citadel or even the Reapers destroyed Crucible.

[gesco420]

Best game in the series up to the ending. One great moment was the death of Leng with the renegade option. Thane's last moments were great. He went out like a champ. "That assassin should be a ashamed allowing a terminally ill Drell to keep him from his target". That may not be his exact words but close enough.

As for an endings everything from the Reapers winning to the happily ever after end is what I would like. A wrap up of what happens to everything and everyone would be great. Having my war assets pay off more instead of just determining the ending. Example would be with my play through I had over 6000 effective military strength but only seen a few Krogan walking towards the destroyer protecting the beam. At least I think they were Krogan. If some Primes, Krogan, Turians, Elcor with heavy weapons on their backs, etc on the battlefield with me would've been great! The size of the fleets I brought with me should been a powerful force but they didn't seem to do much but a couple missiles on Earth can take down a destroyer that didn't add up for me. I had the Geth fleet with me but they were hardly shown doing anything. With that much might the whole Crucible Catalyst macguffin stuff should have been the icing on the cake. I know the Reapers are powerful and there were many but the size of my fleet should been able to go toe to toe especially if two missiles can take out a destroyer like I stated earlier.

The Normandy running away was out of character for everyone on board and where were they going? How did the Earth squad get back on the ship so fast and not go with Shep through the beam? All of them would've went to hell and back for Shep. In the arrival dlc a relay blowing up wipes out an entire system so is the Sol system gone and all others linked to a relay? As for that wouldn't the ending with Shep gasping at the ending never happen cause all would be gone before the gasp ever happened? Is the theory that the little kid was all in Shep's head correct? Some story lines from previous games were not addressed like the dark energy build up on Tali's me2 mission. At least not in my play though any word if in others it is mentioned? I've posted a similar comment in a different thread but I felt it was worth repeating. Thanks for listening.

[ArenCordial]

Just here to add my voice with the others.

I've been buying Bioware games since the orginal Baldur's Gate. Its no suprise that as an RPG fan Bioware has been my favorite developer over the last decade. I list BG2, KotOR, DA:O, and the ME series as in my top ten games of all time. That said I was beyond dismayed with DA2 after the awesome epic that was DA:O. I began to worry about that the comments about Bioware on several forums were starting to come true. (You know the ones I'm talking about). Suddenly I was worried for ME3. Would Bioware change direction in the ME series as with the Dragon Age series and ruin the franchise? Despite this I felt Bioware deserved a second change, every developer can't always make excellent games. I resolved to put my fears aside and give ME3 a chance.

I was happy I did. ME3 is a great game....until the last 10 minutes.

I consider ME1 and ME2 to have some of the best endings in video games. They were heart pounding conclusions to the respective games. The rush to stop Saren on the Citadel, the Suicide Mission were all excellently handled. ME3 failed in this regard. It more than failed.

It ruined my feelings about the entire franchise in general.

In every Mass Effect game, I instantly restarted the game to play again. The endings left me so upset that I haven't wanted to replay the campaign at all. I felt like my choices didn't matter, I felt like I had played a 120 hour + series and that whole investment could be ruined in ten minutes.  EMS didn't make a big difference reallly in the end.  Who your allies were didn't make a difference.  120+ hours in the Mass Effect univerese didn't make a big difference.

My advice is this: Swallow your pride, and change the endings. You're not the only big developer who has had to do this (see Bethesda). I'm sure I'm not the only fan who feels that after DA2 and the ending debacle here that the Bioware brand is at risk.

Rescue your brand. Rescue the Mass Effect franchise. Restore your fanbase.

Hold the Line.

Modifié par ArenCordial, 17 mars 2012 - 06:25 .

[Bionic Weapon]

I have seen people way back when we were just the Mass Effect forums and not BSN say they immediately started another play through of Mass Effect 1 because of how amazing it was (still is) and how their decisions Paragon or Remegade shaped their playthrough and their ending and they wanted to go right back in and play a " what if I did things this way" playthrough.



It left a sense of accomplishment and victory in their minds. It left a good feeling in their hearts. They wanted to experience it again. Mass Effect 1 is still talked about today and even though it left off with a more things are to come ending people still loved it. 



Then there's Mass Effect 2 which was all about coming together as a small team to stop a smaller threat of a much larger one. We got our specialists ready, fought for the lost, and gave them hell. And if we wanted to we  had the option to either fail miserably or come out  triumphantly. Again people loved the choices we were given and shaped their playthroughs the way they saw fit.  Again they loved it and wanted more.



Each of those journeys was the exclamation mark of everything that had led to that point. What they went through, what they achieved to get there, and what the outcome or destination was going to be. The endings were talked about because of how they made the players feel. Some characters died in some playthroughs, and some if not all survived in other playthroughs. Some choices were different although some were the same, but the fact the matter is they were choices. 


Everything they did  mattered and fit into their endgame.



Now with Mass Effect 3 the journey was an  amazing one. Each decision sometimes was harder than the last. Each choice you had to make count. We lost friends that we cared for but we knew that their deaths would not be in vain because the destination was where everything was going to come together.  Where we were going to put everything that we had done so far in that journey to the best possible use we could. They were our choices  they were the things that we did shape our characters.



But sadly no such thing occurred. We were given choices but they were not our own. They were chosen for us. When you give a player the illusion of choice but are actually choosing for them everything that they did absolutely does not matter. 



That's the biggest problem with this game. We expected to ask the hard questions. We expected to look for other solutions if the choices did not agree with who are character(s) was.  We expected to win this war our way on our terms. Again choice.


Take that away from a player how do expect them to react?



And most importantly we expected closure.  To see how our decisions shaped  the galaxy after the war.  To see that everything that we did good or bad had an impact on the galaxy as a whole.  We already knew that this war could/would not leave anyone without scars or sadness. That death and sacrifice was inevitable, and we knew we would lose many we as players had come to care about whether we knew them from the first two games or if they made a big impact on us in the final one. 



Some hoped for an ending where they could reunite with their crew in order to rebuild. To show that despite all that was lost, hope will survive and give everyone in the Galaxy a reason to keep going. A sad but hopeful bitter but sweet end.  And for those who were expecting  a good/happy well give them one of those too. Take a look at what Jeremy Jahns said in his Mass Effect 3 endings review about a good ending.  The Shepard/Garrus scenario is great and kind of funny. 

 I don't think anyone was expecting tears and kissing and high fives. If they were, then hey that's their preference.


 
You want an ending talked about? See what happens when every choice  actually matters and fits  into their own carefully crafted story.  See what happens when when we are asking each other "what decision did you make in this regard".  "What happened to this species in your story"? "How badly  did you screw up in this regard"?



 When this happens you have given the player something to actually talk about: choice and closure. They feel accomplished in their goal, in their story. Whether its a story of sacrifice or pure classic heroism. Each of us gets outcome that we want.



And this dear Bioware is what a lot of us were anticipating but did not get.  We know your track record and we know you are capable of much better than this. You do not want to go out with a whimper but a bang. You want to be remembered for giving us one of the greatest sci-fi trilogies to  ever to grace our PCs and consoles.



And that is why we ask what are you going to do about it?



My views don't not reflect what other may want but I'm just giving you all an example.



Thanks for listening, I appreciate it.

[breatheeasy88]

Attempting to apply logic and reason to the given ending sequence is like falling down the rabbit hole. With the relays destroyed, the Turians will die from starvation, the Krogan will die out after having been separated from their females, the Quarians will die because they won't be able to cope with the environment and they now lack their required medical assistance, the Geth are either ****ed by synthesis or just wiped out by your decision to destroy synthetics (as is your computer pal EDI)... the sequence breaks down so badly and in so many ways that it is difficult for me to understand how it could be written and implemented by a group that has proven so capable without someone stopping and saying, "You know, maybe this isn't the best idea ever."

This is to say nothing of the incredible leap required to believe that the Normandy could hitch a ride on a relay before it was destroyed. So Joker decides to abandon the fight without Shepard, somehow manages to pick up the (visibly unscathed) folks who were making the suicide run with you, makes it to a relay before it explodes, manages to land in a pristine jungle somewhere in spite of what happens to the ship... I don't know. And this is to say nothing of how the synthesis ending in general just makes no sense. Oh, so everything is both organic and synthetic now? Exactly how does that work without the process killing everyone so affected? Space magic?

And none of this even covers how the way the ending plays out mechanically flies in the face of the way the series has worked up to that point and goes against pretty much everything ever said about how the ending would be handled. I think there was a specific quote saying that they wouldn't just be going with a, "choice A, B, or C," ending, and that is exactly what you get. It's just RGB instead of ABC.

It is a monumental disappointment. I hope the BioWare folks are aware of this, and aware that the noise being made on this particular forum is just a fraction of the totality of the displeasure being vocalized by people.

Modifié par breatheeasy88, 17 mars 2012 - 06:25 .

[Grand Champion]

Favorite part? Mordin's death. Every time I hear his name I immediatly start singing the Scientist Salarian song.

[Revanor]

 Dear Bioware/everyone who's reading this!

First of all I want to thank all the people who worked on Mass Effect, because it is pretty much the best game I've ever played, the work you've done must have been difficult, and that is something nobody should forget when they start complaining. In this light, I kinda feel bad when I think about criticising the game, even though I've been with you guys (regarding financials) since the very beginning. 

I know this forum is about the ending of the game, but I MUST praise Bioware for the squadmates they gave us.
Tali and Garrus, the ultimate fan favourites have that position for a reason. By the end of ME2 I almost felt like they (and pretty much every other squadmate) are real people, by the middle of ME3, I pretty much felt like I know them and they know Me, so again, thank you Bioware, and thank you dear Voice Actors who gave these wonderful people a soul. 
My first character was a complete paragon, and I romanced Tali in both ME2 and 3, I really loved all the references to the previous games and for the most part, the whole romance thing was pretty realistic with Shepard and Tali flirting and joking with each other (most importantly on the geth ship). From what I've seen, the alien squad mates were intended to be "secondary romance options", well maybe except for Liara, given the fact that (from what I think I noticed) their love scenes are a lot shorter, than say, Liara's or Ashley's, or Kaiden's.
Also, I was a bit frustrated when Tali took off her mask on Rannoch and we still couldn't see her face.
I think a lot of people were expecting to finally see her without her mask in some point of the game, but "all" we've got was a picture of her. I hope I didn't sound too ungreatful, when I got her photo, I kept looking at it for ten minutes and I was really happy for it, but even my non-existent knowledge of programming suggests that portraying her in-game without her mask wouldn't have been that hard, since you already seem to have a very clear picutre of what the quarians and Tali'Zorah looks like. 

But! This whole thread is about the endings, so I'll get on with it.
A lot of people are unsatisfied with the endings and I can clearly see why, although I do not necessarily share their views. Most importantly, I feel like we can't really see the impact of our choices. Even if you chose Anderson as a councilor, Udina will replace him, and nothing seems to have happened. I mean, Udina and (my) Shepard were always on bad terms with each other, however in Mass Effect 3 , Udina was very helpful, and he didn't mention anything about me choosing Anderson, there weren't any real conflict between (my) Shepard and him. I know that some of our needs probably exceed what we can humanly ask from you, but I was hoping for a more practical solution, like Anderson remains the councilor, but as he stays back on Earth to lead the resistence, he promotes Udina to become the human councilor. This would be a great opportunity to get ourselves into the politics of the Galaxy. The Council wouldn't respect Udina as much as they respected Anderson, and he could actually feel that the aliens consider him second class. The fact that we chose Anderson instead of him, and the fact that he was only named councilor because of the war would play on Udina's hunger for power, which would be the perfect motivation for joining up with Cerberus.
The second thing I noticed, was the whole rachni situation. It's okay that you can save them a second time, or you can kill them, but you get the same option if you chose to destroy them in the first place, in Mass Effect 1.
The other thing about them, is that they don't really play a part in the whole war on the Allied side. Okay, we get some rachni workers for the Crucible, but most of us were hoping that the rachni would return in masses, we could see rachni ships fighting the Reapers in the final battle, maybe even rachni ground troops aiding the humans on Earth.
At some points, I felt like the game was a bit rushed, especially after the rachni mission. Namely, when Grunt comes out of the cave, badly injured, there is a short conversation with Wrex and Dr. Chakwas about his recovery, but that's all. I couldn't find him in sickbay, or on the Citadel, nowhere, and nobody spoke of him again. I don't know if it's some bug or something, but I heard other people had the same issue.
The same can be said about the endings, plus that they don't really reflect our choices.
If you intended these to be the very real and final endings of the game, then I'm afraid I have to say that it was kind of... well... stupid, that the only result of your choices in the previous games was the fact that you don't always get to choose from all the options. (I'm referring to the fact that in some cases, you can only destroy the Reapers, or in others, you can controlthem or choose synthesis). If you think it trough, this means that it doesn't matter what you did, because you'll get to choose after all. I think I speak in the names of a million people, when I say that I hoped that if you screw things up enough, the Reapers will actually win, and that will be a legitimate ending. Or that the other races turn against humanity after the war with the Reapers.
But never the less, I could have totally accepted the current endings, with proper explanation.
I think there are some basic questions that Shepard could have asked, even if he was half dead.
When he met with the Catalyst, the first thing any person would ask is "Who are you, where are you from? etc."
You don't even have to answer it directly, some rather vague explanation would have been enough, an explanation that would have given us some facts, but leave us enough space for making up theories and such.
The second thing that Shepard should have mentioned was the peace with the geth. The Catalyst said that syntethics will always rebel against organics, and if it weren't for the Reapers, synthetics would wipe out all organic life.
Given the fact that Shepard managed to create peace between the quarians and the geth, this assertion seems unlikely. At least he should've mentioned: "But I created peace between the quarians and the geth, what about that?"
And even then, you could come up with a logical and GOOD explanation why that won't last long.
In short, you should've done the same with the Catalys that you've done with the Illusive Man. I think by the end, he explained almost everything about his operations, his beliefs, motivation and reasons, etc, we anticipated the same with the Catalyst.
The other reason why most people think it's not the final ending, is because there is no boss fight in the game.
Harbinger is the ultimate foe in Mass Effect 2, he controls the Collectors, and in the Codex in ME3, they say that he is the oldest reaper, and that he led the attack on Earth. We only got to destroy some smaller Reaper destroyers, a proper fight against Harbinger (with all the proper conversations) would have been nice. 
Let's see.. what else.. oh yeah, the endings again. The Catalyst stated, that whatever you do, the mass relays will be destroyed... it might be a trivial question, but doesn't that mean that the Star Systems around the relays will also be completely destroyed? Shepard should've asked that, and if the answer for that is 'yes', he should've struggled, trying to find another way, because he obviously don't want to blow Earth, Palaven, Rannoch, Thessia, etc to hell (not to mention the unmaped systems' relays with primitive, yet intelligent lifeforms) because that would be worse than the Reapers harvesting the population of these worlds... Okay, so let all those planets blow up, but then there should've been the option to let the Reapers continue, with Shepard committing suicide or something. Or telling the fleets to get the hell out of the system and try surviving like the Migrant Fleet. 
And if we stick with the current endings, then I have to mention the follow-ups. Since this is supposed to be the end of Shepard's story, and the whole reaper story, there should have been a fairly long follow-up that shows the mid- and longterm effects of Shepard's choices troughout the three games and the ending, showing the future of the galaxy and its people. Like in Stalker: Call of Pripyat, there is an at least ten minutes long cinematic where they show you the mid and longterm results of your actions. 
Sorry for the long post, I hope you could read it trough and that it actually made sense, I wish you all the best, and I want to state it again: I LOVE MASS EFFECT, and thank you Bioware for everything, constant improvement will only get you the respect (and money) of more and more people (hopefully).
Please also consider this:
 

Modifié par Revanor, 17 mars 2012 - 06:56 .

[nhcre8tv1]

I enjoyed the feel and approach to the ending, I think you can do a lot with the Shepard breathing at the end of it, and hopefully, you can do as much good to us as the 55k+ donations to Child's Play did to the hospitals.

I would also enjoy a DLC where you get to play as Hackett and the only Dialogue line he says would be "Hackett out".
Kills a guy, "Hackett out":
Makes a speech, "Hackett out"
Gains Love Interest, "Hackett IIIINN!"

[Ilzairspar]

ShepGep wrote...



/end thread

I agree with this guy100%.  Listen to him Bioware/EA peeps, pleese.

[N-Seven]

Another thing is that throughout the serie, Shepard has always been a fierce, charismatic debater. In the end, he simply acquiesces to the 'starchild' and takes A, B, or C.

I feel the real Shepard would have said something like, 'No. There's a fourth choice. Give synthetics and organics a chance to co-exist. Withdraw the reapers.  Give us a chance!  The universe isn't as predictable as you think!'' Not coexisting through synthesis mumbo jumbo, but on their own. I mean they have already proven it can be done, with the Quarian and the Geth, and EDI. And like the starchild said, the simple fact that Shepard is standing there proves that the cycle can be broken and maybe things can no longer be predicted.  Is chaos so bad?  It leads to change and evolution, rather than some predictable cycle repeating itself.

The Crucible sends a pulse that deactivates/withdraws the Reapers without destroying the relays, (perhaps using the relays to transmit the pulse), Shepard wakes up in a hospital bed, with his LI at bedside, and the rest of his companions rush in to see him. Fade to black. Cheesy and cornball, but I'd be happy.

Modifié par N-Seven, 17 mars 2012 - 06:33 .

[Skeejee]

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

Quoting this because nothing I could write would sum up so eloquently how I feel about this series.

Indoctrination theory has saved it for me - for now. If it's wrong - or if we have to PAY for the final real happy ending - then I am going to be absolutely gutted.

[Colancio]

eghbdgdsgh wrote...

Can ONE guy from Bioware KINDLY answer our demands? Thanks.
THANKS.

This.

[TanithAeyrs]

I'll leave my review and comments on the ending for the fan reviews thread. I believe Chris asked us for our favorite moment.

If I have to pick just one it was shooting bottles with Garrus on top of the Citadel - hands down my favorite scene in a game ever. It was such a perfect defining moment in the friendship between my Shep and Garrus (although I think Garrus should have been able to out shoot Shep without her having to miss - it fits his lore).

Other best moments include Mordin singing the excerpt from a stage production as he goes to his death. Grunt emerging bloody but alive from the rachni caves. Thane's comment about a dying drell being able to defeat Cerberus' best assasin. Thane's death scene. Tali setting foot on Rannoch. Tali and Legion after battling the Reaper on Rannoch. Finding out that Tali and Garrus were involved romantically. Jarvik's speech to Liara. "Lola." Every interaction between Wrex and Eve. Anderson on the Citadel after TIM is dead. Jack as a teacher. And too many others to mention - all the little details that were tied up by running into characters from previous games and resolve previous conflicts.

[lilOphelia]

This and this make me wonder about anything happening. I mean, listening is all fine a good. Letting us argue/discuss everything is all find a good. But I think the question on most of our minds is, will the listening amount to anything? Are we making wild theories and fooling ourselves into thinking that there is hope? I want to be secure in the knowledge that I didn't waste all those hours making choices to find out that I will never find out how they affect the people involved after the final battle.

[Alethir]

I thought the ending was great, and I don't understand this lack of closure some people seem to have. I have only experienced the one ending and I chose to destroy the Reapers, all synthetic life and the Mass Relays. I chose this knowing the changes it would make to the Galaxy, because I believed it was the right choice. The whole journey for me has been an incredible one, rallying together all species together into one army of organic life against the synthetics. It seemed a fitting ending, destroying it all but knowing that it would mean life would go back to a time before space travel (since the relays are destroyed) and basically start again, to possibly make the same mistakes that lead to the same problem in the future, but maybe they would do things differently. Maybe the stories of Commander Shepard that are told (like the one the man was telling the boy after the credits) will teach life to do things differently. I think Bioware have done a great job in closing this epic journey, I already want to start another one as a different Commander Shepard.

Modifié par Alethir, 17 mars 2012 - 06:49 .

[Sushu]

Dear Bioware, (not referred to a single person but to a group with tons of
teamwork).

I already told you by twitter how disappointed I feel about the
ending of Mass Effect 3, I feel sad and frustrated, and more, I don’t think I
will ever be able to buy any Bioware game ever again (and I never thought I
would say that in my life, and more after all the trouble I had to get the
collectors edition after Game Uk cancelled the reservation I did 4 months
before the release, and when I had to get it from another country). I was (in
past, I’m sorry) a huge fan of you, as many other people. I played your games
and even I went to second hand market to obtain some difficult oldies that it
was impossible to obtain on first hand (like Jade Empire). Every time I played
your videogames I thought life was a little bit easier, I could dream and scape
of the huge problems of my generation (I had to run away of my own country, and
had to ignore my PhD to clean or delivery leaflets to live, they call us the “lost
generation” back in Spain). Now, thanks to Mass Effect 3 I’m back to reality,
it is a little better to that ending and to think that I spent years dreaming
with it, thinking that my “effort as Shepard” could have a good ending (well,
even I supposed that not all the Shepards that I had could have a good ending,
like Mass Effect 2), but I dreamed that after the years and the times I ended
the games, I was going to be able to see, at least, one of my Shepards with
happy ending. If your choices matter, life is like that, the realistic thing to
say is that there must be at least ONE way to have a happy ending, the reality
is like that, sometimes means to be in the right place in the right moment but
it can happen. But not in Mass Effect 3, there is no way, no chance, no
opportunity, your efforts, your years of hoping, of dreaming of waiting and the
money spent in the games, the merchandising, everything to the rubbish, no
matter how hard you try there is no true full happy ending, just something like
“you survived” but not any of your most beloved people, and only in the best
options, let’s not speak about the others. I feel like I was hit right in my
mouth for the people I was trusting, even thought, I still believed in you
after Dragon Age 2 (sorry, it was not that good).

There are
people with high hopes that you will release a happy ending for free (some of
them say that this could happen in April’s fool), but I have no hopes anymore.
I am just sending this message just in case is truth you take your fans in
consideration, and at least, in the future, you do not break that many hearts
at the same time. Maybe tomorrow I will have my hopes high, or maybe not, I don’t
know, I don’t want to think about it. Even I don’t know if it is better to
start selling away my copys of Mass Effect for Xbox and PC (Yes, I bought both
of them to be able to play even if my partner is using the computer or the Xbox,
and yes, always first hand) or keep them and play only Mass Effect 1 & 2 and
ignore that Mass Effect 3 ever happened.

At least I
am just going to ask for just one thing. I already saw that there are many people
that sent you some messages through twitter and you just answered on a way that
make them have their hopes high. My request is that, please, I beg you, if you
are not going to do anything to solve this, at least don’t play with your fans
and don’t give them false hopes that in the end will become in more sadness and
frustration than before. Maybe that’s why I don’t want to keep my hopes high,
just because I don’t want to feel worse than before. I just want to look away
and pretend that nothing happened.

I know that
my feedback is a bit long, but I wish you read it, at least, because for me is
very difficult to write in a language that is not my own (and probably it is
full of mistakes, I deeply apologize for that).

Just
remember that life is already difficult enough to make it a little bit more sad
and blue.

Thank you
anyway, I know that all of you spent a huge amount of hours doing that game. I
just cannot believe the ending. It broke my heart.

Kind regards,

Isabel Rodriguez Sevilla.

 

Ps. I wrote
all that yesterday, today I just want to hope, HOLD THE LINE!!! I WANT A HAPPY
(no perfect, there are already millions of humans dead) ENDING!!! (and I don’t
want to feel like there are big bugs or holes on it). If I were Shepard and survived
like that I just killed myself.

 

I KNOW I AM
CRAZY BUT I STILL WANT TO BELIEVE IN BIOWARE AND IN MASS EFFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO
DOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the crazy ending.

Modifié par Sushu, 17 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[blueduck1982]

I think what the Reapers always said though was something along the lines of  "your extinction is inevitable", so in that case all 3 endings make sense, with the destruction of the mass relays etc. So yeah, maybe it was a hallucination or indoctrination... Shepard got to either control the Reapers, unite the Reapers with organics or destroy them and a lot of you expected each one to have a different outcome, reflecting the choices you've made throughout the series, but in the end there was really no way to actually save the galaxy, so whatever Shepard chose to do with the Reapers was really a test of his morality, not an option for how the game ends.

I agree in part, a lot of it is really hard to understand and leaves a lot of unanswered questions, but overall the choices you made in the previous games and ME3 only really affected the events before the ending, Shepard actually acheived a LOT, uniting the Turians and Krogan, returning the homeworld to the Quarians, curing the genophage and so on, so the end, for me, didn't really disappoint me, it was, as the Reapers always said - inevitable.

[diver_gr]

The End feels rushed.........something tells me that there is a finger from EA that changed the Ending....

A finger that had plans for a later DLC continue from the unkown planet normady crashed.

I don't know , i loved this company ...... Over the years it offered me great games . From Baldurs Gate 1-2 , Star wars knights of the old republic to Jade Empire . Dragon Age (only the first ) and the ME series .

Dragon Age 2 is the latest game i didn't buy because you destroyed it.And with ME3 being the last game i bought from your company . I don;t even touch the Multiplayer . I don't care at all after you have destroyed my feelings for this amazing trilogy .I bought every DLC you made for ME1 and 2 . But no . i will never give money to you again .Maybe i will play some of you games but no , you don't deserve to get my money again.

After finishing ME3 got it out and sell it for half price .I don't care about DLC don't care for the multi and if you change the END don't care anymore .For me you are not worth anymore .

You were very high in my eyes and now you are so low.....

[Kreiger42]

 i understand the ending, the game was never ment to be for Shepards survival and preservation, it was ment for the galactic comunity as a whole, time and time again shepard throws himself to the fire to save the galaxy, he never plans to survive. To end this series any other way would lower its over all tone and place all those tuff choices into a box labed scrap.

However on the other side of my rusty fence, i agree with the demands of the wider comunity, there should be a way (that further incorperates the genius idea of war assets) that should shepard aquire 5500 (just so happens this was just over my assets) OR GREATER shepard can choose to abandon the catalist idea and launch a full assult on the reapers destroying them with brute force BUT losing alot in doing so (in a way extreme renegade move) crushing the reapers at great cost but preserving the relays and living AND seeing loved ones again. 

this is my personal idea, but a survival move should be placed in motion either via dlc or minor update. building such strong bonds with not only your crew but the wider galactic community and then tearing it all apart by separating the galaxy and never seeing your friends or colleages again, even IF you live. sounds like we should have let the reapers win and just kept running from cluster to cluster, but thats not shepards style and i respect that, but an optional patch or a dlc to add a "happier note" to the game would be much welcomed by all im sure, even as a "so long and thanks for the journey" to us, the fans, the fenatics,the loonies,the feme sheps and the hopefuls.

thanks again for taking the time to create such wonderful games to be remembered and rejoiced over for years, lets see what your future support for ME3 brings and best of luck in future projects.

[ZyionPrime]

***WARNING SPOILERS***

Ok, I want to first say that playing Mass Effect 3 was an amazing experience for me. I started my first playthrough in RPG mode with the difficulty turned up to Insanity. And I think the absolute difficulty I had in the fights really helped to bring forth the feeling that Shepard was fighting a loosing war yet still able to pull through and get some wins. For me, I believed I was playing the best RPG made and nothing would be able to get the same emotional response out of me as this game has. That was until the last 5 minutes of the game where: the logic behind the choices was iffy at best; the continuity problems with the ending scene; and lack of closer made it really hard for me to want to do a second playthrough.

First off was the logic behind the choices. I found the Reapers' logic in destroying all advanced civilization somewhat flawed. What I got from the ending is that organic life will always try and create synthetic life and synthetic life will always try and destroy it's creator (which actually goes with the theme of the first game where you are constantly fighting against the Geth and having to deal with rogue AI). And the Reapers solution to this is to whipe out all life in the galaxy to prevent it from happening. To me, it just seems like a flawed solution made the by the race that created the Reapers. Wouldn't it have been better idea for race that created the Reapers instead design them to be a guide for future races? A theme that would have better fit the whole "whiping out the galaxy" would be that more advanced civilizations have a tendency to dominate underveloped ones, and the older races would be whiped and absorbed into the Reapers to make way for younger ones. Which is reasoning that can not only be related in real life but also in the game through Javik, as he describes the Protheans as galactic conquerors. Another problem I have is with the choice to destroy the Reapers. I get how destroying the Citadel can kill off the Reapers, but I don't get how it could whipe out all synthetic life in the galaxy. I mean, is something like a massive EMP wave that destroys all electronic devices in the galaxy effectively sending everyone in the galaxy back to the stone age? If that is the case, then didn't you just commit mass genocide for everyone who happened to be in a spaceship at the time? I mean destroying the Reapers who are actually connected to the Citadel is one thing but destroying all synthetic life infers that you did something more physical to the galaxy.

Second, the continuity problems with the ending. I'm speaking specifically of the scene where you see Joker trying desperately trying to save the Normandy and the scene afterward where you see your crew appear from the crashed Normandy. I don't understand why Joker was running from the energy wave created by the Citadel. Wasn't he supposed to be in the space battle above Earth? And if the energy wave did destroy the Normandy, wouldn't it have also destroyed every ship in orbit around Earth? I mean, the scene was very emotional but it would have made more sense if that happend as a cut scene before Shepard makes his/her final decision, where Joker is trying to survive the onslaught that the Reapers are pouring down on him. Next was the part where your allies emerge from the Normandy. On my first playthrough, I brought Tali and EDI along with me on the final mission. And when I reached the point where you are hit by the Reaper laser, I had this sinking feeling in my gut that I had lead both of them to their death. But at the end, I see both of them emerge from the destroyed Normandy. How did they end up on the Normandy when they were fighting by my side the entire time on Earth? In fact, the same can be said for any character other then Joker because everyone was fighting in the same battle on Earth.

Third and quite possibly the most important problem with the ending is the lack of closure. At the end of the first two games, you never really saw the effects of your actions until the next game. And this was a great idea because it gave you a reason to go back and play the previous game to see how your actions effected the galaxy and the people around you in the next game. The problem I'm seeing with the third ending is that it is like the ending of the first two, it provides an open ending and leaves you wanting more. Which for being the final game in the series (at least I believe it is) makes you feel empty because you know that there isn't going to be another game to show what happened afterwards. Not only that, but the only closure you get is seeing a few crew members walk out of the destroyed Normandy (and a scene where they hint at Shepards survival if you destroy the Reapers). You spend 2-3 games getting to know and love each character that Bioware has masterfully portrayed in their games and you don't even know what happens to the majority of them at the end? It's no wonder so many people feel empty inside after watching the ending. Even if you didn't have enough time to put in and ending that provides true closure, you could have done something simple like put end game epilouge text that describes what happens to everyone (like what you did with Dragon Age: Origins). Even that would have given people more closure then the ending they got. Granted it wouldn't have been ideal, but it would have at least been something. Expanding on the closure of the game, you don't feel like any decisions you made in the previous games really affect the ending. As long as you have enough EMS, the endings are perty much the same with a few different cut scenes but still the same overall outcome. Which actually hurts the replayability of the games because you know that it is going to end in similar ways no matter what you do.

Now, with all that said I'm not saying that an ending where you have to choose to sacrifice your character is a bad ending. In fact, those endings usually produce the greatest emotional responses from the gamer. On my first playthrough, I picked to sacrice myself and control the reapers and the scene that followed actually got me a little teary eyed. But because of the ending game logic, the continuity errors, and the lack of closure; I am finding it really hard to play through not only the third game again, but the first two as well. I hope Bioware comes out with a free DLC that properly fixs and extends the ending of the game to appease Bioware fans. I personally have been a fan of Bioware eversince I first started playing KOTOR, and will continue to be a fan that supports them because I have faith that they will continue to try and produce quality games with engaging stories and interesting characters. I just hope they don't take that as "I will buy anything Bioware makes because they are awsome" because there is only so much a person can take. They got one strike with Dragon Age Two, and a second strike with the ending of Mass Effect 3. I hope they don't do something that will make the give them a third strike cause at that point, I would refuse to purchase any Boiware games until I've seen the reviews for them.

Modifié par ZyionPrime, 17 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[I am Sovereign]

N-Seven wrote...

Another thing is that throughout the serie, Shepard has always been a fierce, charismatic debater. In the end, he simply acquiesces to the 'starchild' and takes A, B, or C.

I feel the real Shepard would have said something like, 'No. There's a fourth choice. Give synthetics and organics a chance to co-exist. Withdraw the reapers.  Give us a chance!  The universe isn't as predictable as you think!'' Not coexisting through synthesis mumbo jumbo, but on their own. I mean they have already proven it can be done, with the Quarian and the Geth, and EDI. And like the starchild said, the simple fact that Shepard is standing there proves that the cycle can be broken and maybe things can no longer be predicted.  Is chaos so bad?  It leads to change and evolution, rather than some predictable cycle repeating itself.

The Crucible sends a pulse that deactivates/withdraws the Reapers without destroying the relays, (perhaps using the relays to transmit the pulse), Shepard wakes up in a hospital bed, with his LI at bedside, and the rest of his companions rush in to see him. Fade to black. Cheesy and cornball, but I'd be happy.

This is the best solution ive seen so far. No joke.

[Hervana]

Aaand I'm still listening too. Tell me some good news?

[Kathleen321]

This was hands down the best, most kick-ass game I have ever played. I've never shed a tear over a good story, but I was crying my eyes out the entire game. I've never felt so attached to fictional characters-they became so real. The combat was near flawless, the dialogue and acting was incredible. Everything besides the last 10 minutes was perfect. The ending was so out of place, so disjointed from the emotional fluidity of the overall experience. The emotional crux of the game was what was at stake- the earth, the well being and alliance between alien species, the future of Shepard and his/her love interest, and the hopeful future of Shepard's wellbeing. If I was allowed one of these rewards for my hard work I would have felt like the fight was worth it. But with the destruction of the mass relays, the death of Shepard, and the Normandy being stranded, I feel as though I've lost all of those things I was fighting for.