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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#5676
xxskyshadowxx

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medusa_hair wrote...

Here is an excerpt of what Casey Hudson said yesterday (first thread on the ME3 News forum):

"...Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection..."

I don't doubt that's what they wanted but they missed the boat in my opinion. I hope by all of the listening they are theoretically doing, they learn why/how they were unsuccessful. I'm not sure which part is "inspiring and uplifting" though. I guess the "victory and hope" part is when she is seen breathing in the rubble, but everyone doesn't get to experience that. Here's hoping they can take our feedback and use it constructively.


That's one of the claims that grates on me the most. Even the "we're too scared to commit to the fact that Shepard dies" easter egg breath scene is negated by the fact that the Relay blew up, so earth will be engulfed in fiery fallout. There is NO uplifting or inspiring ending when basically, regardless of which choice Wintersong, err I mean Star Child forced  Shepard into, he/she accomplishes exactly what he/she spent 5 years sacrificing every damn thing to try to prevent. Everyone dies, and it's not the Reapers' fault anymore, it's Shepard's. The entire series and the investment the players made is completely pointless and depressing, not uplifting and inspiring. I guess you could consider that the beam of space magic that teleported the crew members from earth onto the Normandy as that total coward Joker fled the war (the beam of space magic even resurrected one of my crew members from the dead in my game--woo!), so that they could be stranded alone on a garden planet is a bit uplifting...I guess. Kinda. But I wasn't playing them....I was playing Shepard, the hero who's final heroic act was a catastrophic act of genocide, ending the cycle she was trying to preserve. Yeah. Thanks Bioware. So long and thanks for all the fi--oo! My fish lived! Nah....the tank probably broke when the Normandy crashed.

The whole game feels like some kind of sick joke.

#5677
AlphaScrewySam

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Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”


Now we're can be pretty sure they've been trolling us for weeks up to the release.

Modifié par AlphaScrewySam, 18 mars 2012 - 03:55 .


#5678
DangerRanger

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After playing through such an amazing trilogy of games, the ending was definitely a disappointment. The endings seemed quickly thrown together and so many factors were introduced at once it was a bit of a let down. The Catalyst/Star-Child telling you that synthetics and organics were destined to fight and destroy each other seemed extremely counter-intuitive since several missions of the game are spent creating peace between the Geth and Quarians. I had honestly expected that Shepard would have to die in the end and I had no real problem with it. The problem is that everything you have done during the game (making peace between the Turians and Krogan, between the Quarians and Geth, and so on) is completely negated by the destruction of the mass relays. Now that entire fleet of ships you assembled is destined to perish in the Sol system. There are so many plot holes and I would really like to see a different ending. I do like the indoctrination theory.

#5679
Flyers215

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xxskyshadowxx wrote...

This is the forum that illustrates a lot of the PR claims that were made prior to the game's release if you are curious:  http://social.biowar.../index/10056886


Thank you.

#5680
kyuzo tatsuya

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228 pages of posts cant lie... the ending choices werent good enough. 5 minutes ago i finished my first playthrough and none of the choices even came close to what i expected. Id heard alot about people complaining about the end and now i see why. The whole game is epic in feel and a fantastic journey, ruined by the last 5 minutes. I understand being able to give a choice of ending but surely there should be good, bad and something inbetween, like all 3 games have been set out with paragon and renegade. Cant describe how disapointed i am... defies belief.

Modifié par kyuzo tatsuya, 18 mars 2012 - 04:06 .


#5681
UKZenosis

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I will Say I liked ME3 up until the end, and I had to double check and triplecheck to see if it was the end!, but yup it was, Comeon Bioware the ending same cinematic no matter which one you choose except the colour of the lights.... and a couple of different textures???? how did my companoin get from Earth to THe Normandy????

What Happened to your fleet what happened to the other races, WHy was Normandy trying to outrun that, Why didn't The Normandy Fire its Guns at the beginning of the charge towards Earth?  (didn't it have one of the most powerful weapons on a frigate?)

Modifié par UKZenosis, 18 mars 2012 - 04:10 .


#5682
FOX216BC

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 CNN is listening to
http://edition.cnn.c...ame-reviews.cnn

#5683
Traderjoeeeee

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FOX216BC wrote...

 CNN is listening to
http://edition.cnn.c...ame-reviews.cnn



#5684
Lucy Glitter

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I just wanted to quote what someone said in the Thane thread, about why his character in ME3 was a HUGE step backwards.

 

Aeyl wrote...

They created Thane as a fascinating character with a well-thought-out and developed past and personality. And while the Kepral's Syndrome perhaps adds to the urgency of his character, I have never once defined him by it. 

Which is why it was that much more satisfying at the end of the romance in ME 2 when you make him stop defining himself by it. He no longer believes and accepts that he is the equivalent of a dead man walking because of the disease but rather, that he has something to live for. He has his son, he has you, and for the first time in the game he wants to live. A mental victory over the Syndrome at the very least.

Which is why it was upsetting when during ME 3 he ends up defined by the disease in a sense. When you first meet him he is being almost entirely defined by his  severely advanced Kepral's Syndrome. 

He does not die because of Kai Leng (had he gotten that wound without Kepral's he would have been fine after surgery) but rather because of Kepral's Syndrome. 

No matter which road you take, he is always defined by the disease in ME 3. You don't speak to him, and he doesn't get wounded by Kai-Leng? Too bad, Kepral's Syndrome kills him.

I do not think it is a fairy-tale scenario, especially in a game, for a disease that should be terminal to be overcome. Every triumph follows some sort of brutal struggle, and a struggle with illness (especially one as horrific as Kepral's Syndrome appears to be) is at the top of the charts in terms of pain and expended effort.

It is, in fact, more unrealistic in the Mass Effect universe that they do not have any sort of treatment available for a problem as damaging, persistent, and widespread as Kepral's. If anything, you'd think the salarians would try to find a treatment for it out of pure curiousity. 



#5685
Traderjoeeeee

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bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 



Quoting so it doesn't get burried.

#5686
Mcfly616

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The bottom line is:
If they're not pulling a fast one on us, if they're not just throwing us a curveball and this ending is the real end and should be taken at face value....

than no matter what....everybody, every species, every squadmate, every character you ever learning anything about, or had come to care for, everybody is S.O.L....

No matter what choice you make, you set into motion another galactic wide mass-extinction..

...if this is the single possible outcome that you could come up with for all the decisions we have made in the past 5 years, then this is the most lazy single piece of writing I've ever seen within games, books or movies combined.

It's the fact that it goes against everything that Mass Effect is. If you were trying to create some sort of open ended, thought provoking ending the was supposed to be left up for interpretation, than I must say picked a horrible time to make the worst decision I've ever heard of. It goes against everything that you yourselves said.

A trilogy is supposed to cap off the story. End it. All plot threads double knotted. You said yourselves, this is the end of Shepards story.

Well, actually its the ending of the entire galaxy. The Reapers goal is achieved no matter what you do.....the cycle will end as the species die out slowly but surely, with our crew being stuck on Gilligans Planet due to the fact the Normandy some how becomes the space age SS Minnow, while Joker(who is never one to run away from a dog fight) is already on his way through a Mass Relay at the point Shepard is making his decision? Everything after getting beamed up to the citadel was just rushed and very vague

If you thought you were being progressive or edgy by making the ending a Greek tragedy, with underlying themes of "its about the journey, not the destination", than you have spit on everything you praised the trilogy to be....


Oh and then... Shepard is alive


All I can say is Wow(in a very bad way)

#5687
Crazy Chocobo

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I finished the game today and was disappointed with the ending like everybody else but I didn't exactly hate it either, it is what it is. I don't want another ending made because I completed the game with an ending I was not necessarily happy with but an ending nonetheless. I for one won't be paying out money to buy a new 'better' ending. I accept the ending for what it was, regardless of what I chose. The game overall though was amazing.

My favorite parts included on the Citadel with Garrus, shooting targets. It was quite a touching scene and looking back on it now, makes me a little sad. I also really enjoyed the mission on Tuchanka with Wrex.

I'm disappointed though about all the decisions we made and all the hours we spent making our characters and crew great for basically nothing in the end. If you did or did not cure the Genophage, so what? It seems it doesn't matter either way because the decisions seem moot after making them. It was rather sad.

After all my complaining, I enjoyed it a lot. Unfortunate about the ending but I'll take it.

#5688
xxskyshadowxx

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FOX216BC wrote...

 CNN is listening to
http://edition.cnn.c...ame-reviews.cnn


Interesting...but they are making assumptions as to what Bioware will do. I would love a better ending,...I don't expect it will happen.

In the meantime...I need to try and talk myself out of trading in my ME3 game for a $6 credit toward Silent Hill: Downpour....

#5689
XTiferethX

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FOX216BC wrote...

 CNN is listening to
http://edition.cnn.c...ame-reviews.cnn

Hope they do listen and change the ending

#5690
KroganBillie

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http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

It describes my disappointment better than I ever could.

#5691
Flamewielder

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Dear Bioware:

I have money and an IPad... make it worth buying Infiltrator by improving the SP endings. Right now, that app's not worth it to me.

#5692
tAlOsS

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NA1 wrote...

You guys have GOT to stop putting smiley faces everywhere.


This, kinda

My favorite Shepard moment would probably be when he was talking to Ash when she was on the floor, hungover. Shepard is a damn space pirate afterall

#5693
Wraith_3

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I just finished and while I'm not on the "Bioware raped me!" bandwagon, I
think it was kind of a middle finger to the fans, even if it was
unintentional. They should have been able to get enough internal
feedback to know that it wasn't a good idea. I think they already showed
the sacrifice building up to the end. Heck you lose two people of your
people getting to the beacon thing on Earth. By the end I had lost
Mordin, Liara, Thane, and Vega. Oh then to rub it in, they strand the
Normandy, which for some unexplained reason was fleeing the fight on
Earth and was using a Mass Relay. They also strand all the fleet that
survived from returning to their home planets and blow up the Citadel
for good measure. The only way they could have crowned that steaming
pile of a finale was to set a pack of wild animals on the survivors of
the Normandy when they opened the airlock.



The game was absolutely great right up to the very end. I even liked the
part after the credits. I just can't see how the team working on the
game couldn't possibly have thought this wouldn't p*ss the fans off! I
will thank them for saving me the money I would have spent on the
upcoming DLC because I'm not sure if I'd want to play it again.

#5694
Dondino

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There's so many posts on here who knows if you'll actually get to mine haha. But anyways I just want to start by saying I think Bioware is an incredibly talented team. Everyone who put work into the mass effect series, you are all my heroes. Shepard and his journey to stop the reapers has really been a wild ride of incredible scenes and unforgetable story telling. I was sad to beat the game. The end of shepard was too much. I stopped playing before the end and went to multiplayer to avoid beating it haha. Anyways, you already know how everyone feels about the 3 endings. I dont stray far from others thoughts, yet I still found the ending intriguing in ways, however confusing. I look forward to better explanation and possibly alternate endings. You wanted to know my favorite moment in the game and id have to say when thane died. A warriors death. Overall the game play in this installment went over the top with improved combat and controls. Also the increased RPG feel. Thank you for looking out for your fans. Mass Effect till the end.

#5695
jeweledleah

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KroganBillie wrote...

http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

It describes my disappointment better than I ever could.


fascinating read and a very interesting analysis. 

although

I would still like an option of a happy ending.  I prefer to feel joy rather then sorrow, too much sadness in real life to deal with that is unavoidable.

#5696
Ghost of a Messiah

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I think I've narrowed down exactly why I haven't been able to pick up a controller since "it" happened. They killed my hero... They killed him and they made me watch... It wasn't even an honorable death... Then they had the nerve to add insult to injury by showing some warped flicker of hope with a single breath absent any closure at all...

Only heroes I have left are Bruce Campbell and Charlie Sheen...

#5697
Twiggy

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It took me a while to come up with something constructive to say here. I wasn't going to post anything at all because I figure that what's done is done. I'm sure that no response from Bioware is going to give me back my rose colored glasses. There's no fan girl left in me.   Thank you Bioware, for making some of my favorite games and for writing some of my favorite stories.

But, I really disliked the ME3 endings, they ruined the franchise for me. For all of the reasons that are already being talked about. There is no need to repeat arguments that are already so well fleshed out - but I did rant a little on my blog. So I'll post a link for those who are interested. Feel free to read more there.

#5698
monsoontide

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On a positive note, I found the game- like nearly everyone else - fantastic right up til the end... For Me in particular it is once Shepard passes out and is raised up on the light lift to the area with the starchild... hang on a second... Shepard passes out... could the ending be just his fever dream hallucination ala Jacobs Ladder (The movie with Tim Robbins)... NAH! This is exactly what they planned. You can tell from the released concept art but I am sure if there really was some pressure to change the end they could do so from several points near the end... I didn't hate the end, it was just so average compared to the rest of the story, it's like a different writer came in at the end... :P
Also, the GREEN choice is the obvious choice... (Not that I took it)... but A) There is only one major version of the ending that is green (with 3 for red and two for blue), but B) We have NEVER been given a green option before and I suppose it gives the "happiest" outcome from having watched all the videos...
Well certainly no need to play multiplayer ME3 again. Don't need to do another play through. I guess this is it unless some SUBSTANTIAL DLC comes out, but I can't imagine it... of the ones released for ME2, while there was some interesting stuff in there, BIOWARE has already stated that because of the programming architecture, new characters (team mates) can't be added via DLC - hence Jarvik is partially on the ME3 discs... I am wondering are we just going to get Multiplayer DLC crap?

#5699
tookrunk1991

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my favorite part in me3 was the epic battle with Harbinger...... oh wait that didn't happen....

#5700
Cucobr

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The game until Herbringer hit you = 99/100

The game after that = 15/100