23455 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

Indoctrination theory would effectively make you guys GODS, please do this for the end.

[Dandynermite]

I'm not being funny, but if they don't take the views of nearly every ME player, and the 50,000+ that have signed the petition. I will never buy EA again, especially not Bioware stuff. Dragon Age 2 was an absolute joke, and the ending of Mass Effect 3 is worse. Bethseda in fallout give you an epilogue of what happens to every single character at the end of the game, is this so hard?

[RomanDark]

ShadowAussie wrote...

I also notices females aren't in the game only krogan, asari and quarian but yet turian and salarian are not there. very strange. since the majority be in-game to cover up afew gaps.

The Salarian Delatross is female if I'm not mistaken. And the Salarian Councilor is if you did not save the original council. I'm also pretty sure I saw a female turian during ME3 but I don't recall when.

[Archonsg]

Virmire Vermin wrote...

If the ending turns out to be a hallucination, then do you think the choice of Synthesis, Destroy or Control will affect the real ending? If so, in what way?

Then it was a damned bad joke played on us, Bioware's customers. The game shipped as is. We have to take the game at face value without more info from Bioware. I can assure you, they thought that this ending was (refer to Casey Hudson's latest post) the real deal and we were supposed to like it.

However they may make a scramble and I don't know how or what exactly, to explain logically and scientifically make what we saw in the ending cut scene possible. 
Or tell us its all a dream, whatever. 

Either way you and I were punked and I don't like it one bit.
Actually, if you liked that ending then no, you were't punked and I am just speaking for myself. 


And to answer that question, all 3 choices are a trap. 
Choice 1, you die. How are you going to control something if you DIE? 
Choice 2, space magic BS, you still die.
Choice 3, this is one is harder, but you are still meant to die. But it has a plausible way out. ASSUMING it was all a dream. But you STILL SACRIFICED your free will in taking ANY choice. 

That is one of the major problems I have with the ending. Shepard who never gave up, never say "die" gave up his free will because an AI told him to. W.T.F?!

[Ingu]

spensor25 wrote...

Everyone should watch this video.  Someone explains what they think about the ending and i must say it makes a lot of sense and I hope he is right.  I missed so many hints during the ending. I must not play important parts of a game at 1am after a long day at work

The guy makes excellent points, I had the same questions. But if this is true (which is likely, giving the clues), that is plain disrespectful and irresponsible. Why? WHY? Do they just think it'd be fun to take their fans for a wild ride and tell them later, lol, you're all so stupid, worked up over nothing. That we don't deserve the proper ending of the game without dishing out more money? (which is what they're implying, with this silence) I honestly don't want to think of Bioware as THAT sort of company. I really don't. 

Even if it's their ingenious way of combating piracy. No. Just no.

Modifié par Ingu, 18 mars 2012 - 09:25 .

[Dandynermite]

Don't go down the Shepard is indoctrinated line... It would ruin the entire series. If indoctrination was going to happen, it would have already happened. Arrival two days next to the reaper artifact, Sovereign, Harbringer on the Collector Base, the countless encounters with Saren etc etc. All they should do is just put in a scene with Shepard and their LI on earth getting married and living happily after or whatever, it kills the series like Bioware wants, leaves room for dlc to mop things up, and doesn't leave you with an alive shepard sitting on the citadel doing nothing

[Vlad1113]

I think perhaps some of the guys behind ME3, thought that a MP option would take our mind off the ending.

It certainly took their minds off then ending thats for sure. The overwhelming vast majority of us bought this game for the SP storyline to allow us to finish what we started years ago.

Instead we had it 'finished' for us.

Did they kill the ending to kill off those of us who prefer SP games to MP so that they could cash in on a lucrative DLC future for MP?

If you take a look at the MP forum, you will see an odd group of folks with just ME3 on their profiles who seem not have finished the game or played any others but are MP enthusiastic and calling us holding the line as kids, or whiners etc etc

Is that the deal Bioware, kill an RPG to make an FPS out of it?

[RobinEJ]

I have enjoyed the rest of the game, all three of them, that is why I felt betrayed. If the end of the journey nullifies the journey, was the journey then worth it?

[Virmire Vermin]

Archonsg wrote...
Actually, if you liked that ending then no, you were't punked and I am just speaking for myself. 

Haha, no dude, I hated the endings.

And yes, the fact that Shepard couldn't resist the will of Justin Bieber, was just... we all got trolled hard, regardless of whether these endings are the real ones or not.

[Blodsven]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can.  
/.../
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback. 

Why the ME3 ending failed (in my non humble opinion):

1. "Space Magic"
ME3 is build upon one piece of magic, which is element zero and that it can create mass effect fields when affected by an electrical current. If we buy that, then the rest sounds plausible. However, the ME3 ending suddenly introduce loads of new rules to the ME3 universe. New rules that feel out of the place, since you have not managed to secure them enough with good backstories. How can you rewrite the DNA of living creatures remotely? How can you rewrite the DNA without killing the host? What kind of force can manage to kill the reapers, the citadel, the relays and any other synthetic like the geths and EDI? Etc.

2. Too High Expectations?
ME2 lied the foundation that your past actions in ME1 would alter and affect ME2. Various interviews for ME3 pushed out this message even more. The expectation was thus that the ending in ME3 would highly depend upon what you had done not only in ME3, but in the two previous games as well. It was then quite disapointing to experience that your past actions had relatively low impact. The only decision that really counted was the last one, which was if you wanted to go through door A, B or C.

3. Lack of Answers
Who built the citadel and introduced in the reaper cycles? How could the Cataclysm ever reach the conclusion that the reaper cycles was a solution? Why did Normandy suddenly fly away? How could it fly away to another planet when the Sol-relay was the first relay that was hit? What happened afterwards to the races and your companions?

[Dreppern]

Like so many others absolutly loved the game until the ending. They sure made it bittersweet: what a cheap way of ending such a great triology.

[Brentel]

 Loved the whole serie.....til this crappy ending(s?).......
Really poor for such a rich and complex game.....
Hope u release something with a proper end.......

[Kayawyn4]

There are many moments I loved about ME3. It treated the final war with a passion and brutality that is truly epic. I cried at Mordin's death and could feel  Garrus's and Liara's horror and righteous anger as they saw their homeworlds burn.

Unfortunately, the key word there is loved. Like many people in this thread, I hated the ending. It wasn't just mediocre. It was such a crushing disappointment that it has tainted my view of the entire franchise, including any future derivatives of it.

Prior to finishing ME3 myself, I heard many people didn't like it. I didn't want to know how it ending so I avoided all of the threads and articles that dealt with it. I assumed people were complaining that Shepard died. I, however, was ok with—and even expected—Shepard to become a tragic hero. If the game had ended with her sitting back with Anderson, remarking on having the best seat in the house, and then the explosive power of the Crucible's blast resulted in their death as it destroyed the Reaper fleet, I would have been sad but satisfied and ready to play again. A detailed epilogue would have been nice, but just having credits coming up as I watched the Reaper army crumble would have been sufficient for a mediocre ending.

But sadly, the game did not end there nor did my computer spontaneously catch fire before the “star child” scene. It will take months me to forgot the ending enough that I’d be willing to look at the game again and even if I had the desire to play it again with the ending as it is—which is a very large if at this point—I can’t see myself purchasing a DLC for it. There is simply no reason for me to do so. I might play the multiplayer mode with my friends, but if they have the same reaction that I did to the ending, I doubt that their interest would hold for long.

Bioware, I hope that you can do something about this. I know that your writers, developers, artists, voice actors, musicians and sound people, and everyone else that works there are an incredible group that have produced some amazing works. I don’t want to hear people the phrase that someone “ME’d it again” to become synonymous with a delivering an ending that is atrocious enough to spoil an entire franchise.

Modifié par Kayawyn4, 18 mars 2012 - 09:29 .

[Eastwood1800]

The only game I've ever played where I care about the characters.great game until the end I feel so flat 100+ game play for a ending that makes no sense cheers for that

[HALO_Project]

akashacatbat wrote...

I'm also reposting this, since I couldn't have said it any better. My own comments are after the quote.

Traderjoeeeee wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right. 

Quoting so it doesn't get burried.

I've been a rabid BioWare fangirl since I first started playing Baldur's Gate II, waayy back in the day. Hell, I still am that fangirl as I have recently been considering doing some sort of BioWare themed tattoo.  I bought my first XBox for the sole reason of being able to play Jade Empire.

I rolled my eyes at people who complained about Dragon Age II. Yes, it had its issues. But overall? I loved it. The ending was sad, destructive and inevitable. But you know what? That was okay, because it made sense. I can deal with sad endings, as long as they make sense.

I avoided all spoilers going into my first playthrough, so the way it ended was quite a shock. I sat through the credits in stunned silence, then went to the game guide. It told me Shepard would live if I gathered a certain number of War Assets. So I played through it again, still avoiding spoliers, and making sure to log in some MP hours so I could make the grade. I made the same choice at the end as I did before (synthesis), only to have it end the same way.

This spurred me to FINALLY go online and see just what was up with these endings, and found out that destruction of the Reapers is the only way to live. There is no way in hell my Shep would commit mass genocide of the geth, especially after Legion's sacrifice. And even if she did, what was her reward? Waking up in some pile of rubble  (or is she still on the citadel?) with her crew on some random planet, with no guarantee they will ever see each other again. No thanks.

I get that the Hero sacrificing him/herself at the end to save everyone is a common way of ending an epic story. When done right (Thane, Mordin) it can be beautiful. Shepard's end was not, for the reasons listed by the oh-so-eloquent person in the above quote.  She was able to talk the Krogan, Salarians, Asari and Turians into uniting to fight this threat. She took down a reaper (hell, more than one) on FOOT.  I find it hard to believe that she would kowtow to some little snot-nosed glowing ball of light and accept the terms presented  to her. She'd been saying the whole game that a sentient being gets to choose their own destiny, but at the very end she allows terms to be dictated to her without a fight.

The last few minutes felt like a betrayal. I know it sounds melodramatic, but frankly I can't put it any other way. I'm heartsick over it.  I play video games to escape and refresh myself from the stresses of the real world, not to walk away feeling like life is just one giant series of sacrifices before you die, alone.

When you allow a player to customize a character and a story to the level that they have in Mass Effect, that character, in a sense, becomes a part of you. Ultimately, BioWare wasn't killing some Hero figure, they were killing ME. And try as I might, I can't get over that.

Captiosus77 
This is now my go-to forum post because it perfectly summarizes my feelings.

The only thing I would add is this:
The longer they take to make it right, the more fans they lose. I get that the game has only been out a week in North America and shorter elsewhere, but they simply cannot afford to wait months to address this issue. 

Those of us complaining are not a "vocal minority". I have had coworkers and classmates, "hardcore" and "casual" gamers alike, discuss the ending with me over the last few days, all with the same amount of disappointment and/or disdain. Several have already traded in the game while they can get the highest amount of credit for it. Many of them will NEVER post here and while some may rally on twitter or Facebook (mostly at my recommendation) some of them won't even do that. They've just washed their hands of the disappointment - that's already a loss of potential DLC sales because they've decided they don't want the game anymore, at all.

This is not an issue that can be sat on for months. An announcement needs to come soon, even if the announcement is "this is the ending, it's not changing" so we can either anticipate the future DLC or move on. No more cryptic tweets, no more deflection. I've posted in this thread four times now, and in none of them have I mentioned my favorite parts because I'm not a cat who will be distracted by a laser pointer into another discussion to deflect the real topic at hand. 

 


This is an excert from my letter to Bioware:

"It feels as if you don't trust the fans to let Shepard go. I was ready for her to retire. I was ready to play a new character in the Mass Effect Universe in a new story. I can see a whole wealth of possibilities around trying to forge a way to reconnect the systems without mass relays. I can see the potential for other stories, some close to Shepard's time, some in the not so near future. But I just wanted an ending that I could stand back and heave a deep breath and say "It was worth it. Wow." But that's not what we were given. Please. Shepard deserves better than this. She worked so hard. I was ready to let her go, but not like this. Please."

[theabyss135669]

I just wanted to add my voice to this ENDING debacle.

Firstly, does ME3 have an ending? Yes, absolutely.
Secondly, does ME3 conclude a trilogy? In a few ways, but mostly no. (I will get into that later)
Lastly, is the ME3 ending a good ending? Yes, but with many, many, many caveats.

The first question can be answered right away so let's ignore it. The second question is odd. Odd because the way everyone at Bioware had spoken about ME3 and it's end before the game's release can be almost directly quoted as, "There is a definitive end/conclusion to Shepard's story." Shepard's story, otherwise known as YOUR story, since YOU, the player, assumed the role of Commander Shepard for... well I think I've invested nearly 500 or more hours of gameplay spread throughout all three games.

Knowing what I just said in both parts, what Bioware has said, and how much I/we have invested in "our" story, it would naturally follow that a just end would be in store. Either one of two things was going to happen from the get go: We Defeat The Reapers, We Die Trying and Fail to Defeat the Reapers. Now, on that aspect, Bioware fulfilled "our" story. Shepard either died... or lived defeating the Reapers (in one of three ways).

To be quite frank, that is all Bioware delivered with the ending as is. If your shepard died, then you get a little closure (unless you really crave for what I will soon talk about). If your shepard lived however.... there is the inherent flaw in ME3's ending. An ending that Bioware said would bring closure DEFINITIVELY to Shepard's story. Well, death is one way to do that, however, if shepard survives... then there is more to the story, to his/her story, to OUR story. Thus, it follows, that MY/OUR shepard's story is NOT finished, which means either more content through DLC or ANOTHER MASS EFFECT GAME THAT CONTINUES THE STORY.

Continuing the story to a natural conclusion. I completely understand trying to create an original ending that isn't of the you die or you live happily ever after variety. I do. I'm writing a four part story that features original/artsy endings for all three... but the last one. The last one is KEY. If you want your story to END you must write an END. A good analogy to this would be Inception (bare with me here as I know the ending will be forever debated). In Inception, at the end, the top may or may not fall over and it cuts out before we see if it does or not. Logic would dictate that the top would fall because we are only watching a movie and in real life, tops don't go on forever. But you suspend your logic for a bit, and you can believe that the top kept spinning. Analogous to ME3. If you chose the destroy ending, you start to see the mass relays destroyed and the reapers die but it cuts out early to show... joker piloting the normandy for no apparent reason, running away from the fast approaching catalyst signal.... which makes NO sense because our eyes saw just moments before the beam destroy the mass relay in the sol system where EVERYONE WAS and then spread like wildfire throughout half the mass relays and systems before it cut to this random ass scene. LOGICALLY, this scene is useless and clutters the ending with a very strange attempt to show what happens to your crew. I get the artsy endings, again, but this was very poorly handled. I mean, seriously, what damn system did Joker randomly fly the Normandy and my crew to during the ****ing fight with the reapers? SERIOUSLY? Did he take some red sand or something and get a bad hit while I'm fighting off the damn reaper horde?

Ok, a little rant about that over, back on track. The ending fails in multiple ways at CONCLUDING OUR STORY. I must say that if this is not the end to our story, I love it. ****ING LOVE IT, EXCEPT THE JOKER AND NORMANDY CRASH PART. If this is Bioware's forseen END to OUR story, then I, like many others, am very, very frustrated. It does not conclude the story. Either there is a hope for the galaxy or there is not. The fact is I WANT TO SEE THAT. I want to see if the mass relays destruction severely hampers and kills millions. I want to see life after the reapers, IF EVEN FOR FIVE DAMN MINUTES. We are given nothing but a breathing shepard and a useless scene after the credits (it is useless, probably more so that they spent time to include that in there and not anything else about what happened after I destroyed the reapers).
Concluding second point - It does NOT conclude a trilogy and it does not conclude my/our story, on the whole.

The ending to ME3 has elements of a great ending. Some things can be left to interpretation, and some things can be forever left unexplained (UNLIKE YOU LOST! WHAT IS THE DAMN ISLAND!!!!! That's the only question I ever had from the very first episode!!!!)
I enjoyed learning about the catalyst and the potential ramifications of our talk. It raises many questions that could or could not be answered later. I like that. I can infer that an ancient organic race created AI that, like the geth, became self aware and DIDN'T want to hurt their creators, but at the same time saw countless other species fall to their own creations. A synthetic is always limited to the boundaries of its imprints, like LEGION and EDI who Shepard imprinted on their unshackled AI the concepts of what it means to be a HUMAN. Whereas, whatever AI the catalyst is/was, its creators imprinted on it their species and its ideals, which make me think that the species saw life as cyclical and that all organic life will perish to their creations. I see this as a flawed argument, and of course all of us players do, but I understand it as the limit of that species that created the catalyst which created the reapers. Species understand things DIFFERENTLY. That is a highlight of all three games in my book. All three touch upon all the different species and how they view ideas and motives differently. I don't see the catalyst's point of view as a plot hole because I tend to think we are looking at its view through HUMAN eyes which, we can't do any other way. I KNOW THAT THE CATALYST THINKS THE REAPERS MUST BE AND DESTROY TO PROTECT LIFE. I also know that my girlfriend thinks that Chemistry and Calculus are the coolest **** ever, which, to me, makes me think that she has nothing in her brain at all or she has grown another head, which is my point on the catalyst. Two differing ideas that come from different experiences of species. Almost like trying to compare our experience of courting/mating to that of a preying mantis. Is there really a reason for the female to bite the male's head off after sex? The reason could be for food for the female's young, but there is always food around somewhere and whose to say that the male really won't last that long after sex in terms of its natural lifespan/cycle?

The parts about ME3's ending that fall flat are: The quick cuts that don't show very much of the effect your decision had, the obviously misplaced joker/normandy scene, the part after anderson's death when hackett talks to you and you act very odd and fall down to be raised up by the pedestal thing just to be told by the catalyst to wake up and you're all better even though moments before you nearly bled to death, the fact that shepard makes no hard/probing questions to the catalyst at all besides what it offers freely (why does the fact that an organic is there mean that the solution is null and void? and why did the reapers not even attempt to take out the crucible, is it because the catalyst has been waiting for the crucible to be completed and for organics to finally create a new alternative so it controlled the reapers to allow it to be attached?) Those are questions that Shepard should have asked... at least MY Shepard would have asked them, and MY shepard throughout ME1 and ME2 and most of ME3 did just that, asked the tough questions and made the tough decisions. The fault lies therein. The tough decisions were taken away from ME/US. The tough questions were never asked. That is why a lot of people are upset, and I am one of them. How Shepard acts during the catalyst part is not how MY shepard acts. AT ALL. I take that back, MY shepard came back with a vengeance once he picked up his gun, walked forward and held it with both hands to destroy the container pod. THAT WAS MY SHEPARD. Facing death head on with will and determination to rival a thousand civilizations. Where was he the entire 5 minutes before?

These are but a few of my thoughts on this subject. I hope, I really do, that BIOWARE takes to heart all of our complaints/issues. I in no way want to take away from their art. I admire it beyond many other things, and that takes a hell of a lot of talent to make me do that. I merely want to add my opinion to their consensus if you will, that you can make a unique, original and artful ending that delivers closure. YOU CAN DO IT. THE ENDING AS IT IS NOW IS NOT THAT ENDING. Beautiful though it is, it is not CLOSURE. IT DOES NOT CONCLUDE THE STORY.

Floated. out.

[RomanDark]

I really want to put my input on the endings here but I feel like we are missing a vital chunk of information that is key to determining how Shepard's story really ends.

That information would be whether the in game ending is what you see what you get, or whether it was a dream, hallucination, indoctrination. Speculation highly favors the indoctrination theory and could potentially make this mess a whole lot easier to deal with. If this is confirmed to be the case by Bioware then I say bravo, it was very well executed. However, the question remains, shouldn't the rest of the story have been included in the game? Did they want to leave the ending as guess work? What purpose would that serve? Was it easier to do that rather than create a unique ending for every set of variables throughout the 3 games? Were they priming everyone for DLC to get the "real" ending? Did they simply run out of time to fit any more in? Needless to say, if the indoctrination theory is correct EVERYONE is going to want to know what comes next and if Bioware doesn't give some solid resolution it will be a lose/lose situation for both sides.

However, if the endings really did happen, and are what we get then I think Bioware should really rethink what type of audience they are selling to. I don't know how they could look at those endings and think they would please anyone! If the indoctrination theory is just the fans grasping at straws then I'd be in full favor of rewriting the endings, though I seriously hope this is not the case.

I don't even think the endings would have been that bad if it weren't for the relays being destroyed. I chose the destroy ending because it was the only one that sounded as if my Shepard might live. I figured, if the relays get destroyed in each case, then what's the freaking point in sacrificing myself for some ridiculous unknowns. At least I'd have a chance of reuniting with my love interest. Imagine my surprise when the completely random Normandy scene played out. The state of the galaxy after the destruction of the reapers was not worth the time and effort that my ultra-thorough Paragon Shep that did everything right put into saving it. And that to me is the biggest let down.

Another thing is I don't think that Shepard should HAVE to sacrifice himself in order to beat the reapers. Yes the theme of ME3 seemed to be sacrifice, but the theme of ME2 was about beating the odds against almost certain death, and after a SUICIDE mission you could still come back with everyone alive if you put in enough effort and made the right choices. I think this should have come into play in ME3 as well. What good were the 7050 war assets I collected if they would give me the same outcome that significantly less would have? Shepard has continually beat the odds and come back from the brink of death, and death itself and to say that in all cases he MUST die in the end is just ridiculous.

Anyway, the key point here is that Bioware is losing fans and money each day with their silence and needs to put out an official explanation of their current endings so we may all start giving INFORMED suggestions as to what we would like to see happen next.

PS: I will give credit where credit is due. Bioware I loved this game as I have loved the previous 2. But when you take a bite of something that tastes delicious at first, if the aftertaste is bad it is that which you will be burping up for the rest of the day. And it is that which will make you rethink eating it ever again.

[Archonsg]

Dandynermite wrote...

Don't go down the Shepard is indoctrinated line... It would ruin the entire series. If indoctrination was going to happen, it would have already happened. Arrival two days next to the reaper artifact, Sovereign, Harbringer on the Collector Base, the countless encounters with Saren etc etc. All they should do is just put in a scene with Shepard and their LI on earth getting married and living happily after or whatever, it kills the series like Bioware wants, leaves room for dlc to mop things up, and doesn't leave you with an alive shepard sitting on the citadel doing nothing

I am with you on this one.
Indoctrination is a grasp at straws that many fans want to believe in the hope that its real and that the whole thing didn't happen. However Indoctrination itself brings about a whole slew of problems. 

The way I see it is that if Shepard is indoctrinated and hallaucinated that last piece of 15 mins craptastic hell, he is still on earth on London. Its the ONLY thing that makes any sense as long as we HAVE to take the current cut scenes. 
But that means that the crucible never fired.
Could not have since no one went up there to triger it.

But if you insist on Shepard being on the Citadel, refer to my post on page 231 :
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9992961/231
I would love to hear how you explain that part while keeping thru to events as we saw it, and keeping it "real" and not go even further into "space magic".

Oh yes, by "you" I do not mean you Dandynermite but those who are in general concensus that this Indoctrination theory is the way to go.

I rather they just admit that didn't think it through and gave us all utter BS and make this "bad" ending one of the BAD endings and work around and patch / dlc / expasion /whatever so that we get an ending where *our choices matter* and one that makes sense.

Modifié par Archonsg, 18 mars 2012 - 09:39 .

[HALO_Project]

I also wanted to say that I, too, raise my hand that I had other Shepards on standby to play this and now I can't play them. I can't go through all that I did, the tears and the sacrifices and the fleeting but precious joys only to have it all come down to this. Please fix this. I feel so very betrayed. I cried as the credits rolled by but it wasn't like when Thane died, or Mordin or Anderson. It was a shattered disappointment that I couldn't contain. It hurt to be so let down. This was my favorite game series. Period. I was really looking forward to what else could be done with the Mass Effect Universe with a new character. Was. But I can't stand the idea that the best Bioware can provide us after all this time is that Shepard destroys the Reapers in one capacity or another and galactic civilization along with them. No. Just no.

[Ieldra]

I'm going to put this quote from another thread here because it has a better chance of being read:

ElitePinecone wrote...

The critical mistake BioWare made was to confuse their fans’ investment in the characters with interest in the fate of the universe as a whole. The ending is supposed to be hopeful — the Reapers are no longer a threat, and organic life can flourish. But by attempting to wrap up the story arcs before the final battle, and then sketching out the conclusion with broad strokes in which everyone’s fate is left unresolved, they’ve betrayed a colossal misunderstanding of how the audience was engaged with the story.

One of the most common complaints about the ending is that it makes the rest of the game feel “pointless.” With the Citadel and the mass relays destroyed, what difference does it make if the genophage is cured or if Rannoch is recovered? It feels pointless because, in the end, no one was really trying to save the galaxy; they were trying to save the people. Pulling the camera so far back that we can’t see anyone severs the emotional connection that the rest of the series built up. The implications of the three endings can make for interesting thought experiments — what does it mean to combine organic and synthetic life? — but they are just that: thought experiments. Abstract speculation about transhumanism is the ending to a story that was not being told.

I think sums up the root cause of the disssatisfaction perfectly, though I'd like to give it a slightly expanded focus:

We are not invested in "life in the galaxy" as a whole, but we also aren't just invested in characters. What we care about is the sum of characters, peoples and places presented to us in the trilogy, in other words, the elements that constitute the ME universe as a fictional setting, including their connectedness. We fought to save them. I would have no problem with, for instance, the vagueness of the Synthesis, if the destruction of the relays didn't rob me of any solid fundament to apply my speculation to the characters, places and peoples I care about.

I would be able to forget most of the inconsistencies in the endings if there was a reasonable ground for believing the ME universe as represented by those characters, peoples and places is ok within the limits of the plausible. IMO, a dark age scenario is about the only thing this side of a Reaper victory with the potential to ruin any possible ending. It feels like the destruction of the universe.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[Shkaw]

I was blown away by the game for more than 28h, although I lost quite a lot of my comrades. Not a single scene disappointed me.

Until Shepard was sitting next to Anderson watching the final phase of the battle beginn. After that I was only confused and disappointed.

Why was the kid I couldn't save the catalyst? And why was a being existing for some million years a human kid?
Why did the relays have to be destroyed?
Why didn't we have the possibility to let humanity die to make place for the next cycle? (Although about noone would pick this ending)
Why did the Normandy have to flee from the shockwave? The Soldiers on Earth weren't really affected either?
Why did the Harbringer not reoccur? Why wasn't Shepard again directly confronted by a reaper in the end like in ME1 the Sovereign via Saren and in ME2 the Harbringer via the collectors? Why was the only conversation with a reaper the little one on Ranoch?
Why was the catalyst convinced that there is no more need to keep organic life from advancing too far, just because humanity has advanced so far?
And what are the differences between controll, synergy and destruction, apart from who may leave the Normandy and from the small chance of Shepard surviving?

I know it probably wasn't easy to think about a convincing effect of the Crucible and a concluding end. But you promised at least a few diffrent endings and apart from some cosmetic differences, all possible endings are the same to me! And it seems that I'm not the only one.

Originally I planed to play ME3 AT LEAST 3 times, one time mixed to get to know with the consequences and one time both absolute renegade and paragon.

But with the ending as it is today, I just can't play it again, because it is just too unsatisfying.

And I have the bad feeling, that there will be a DLC to correct the ending, but not a FREE DLC...

So far, the fact that a game is from Bioware was enough reason for me to assume a great story. SO FAR however...

P.S.: Apart from a few small mistakes like that the saved Rachni breeding machine is not listed with the other allies, which doesn't make it a surprice when it betrays you AND of course the Ending, this game is the best I've played for a long time and if you patch the ending or at least anounce to change it (for free), I will take everything negative I said back. And ... well, probably love you again for your incomparable great storytelling.

After all, everybody makes mistakes. And it's not a sign of greatness if you don't make mistakes, but if you take responsibility for your mistakes.
So please correct the ending!

Modifié par Shkaw, 18 mars 2012 - 10:04 .

[SandMan2012]

In response to the request of Jessica Merizan, I have decided to make a clear decisive list of my sentiments of the good and the bad for ME3.

First off let me start with the good, 

1. The cut scenes were outstanding, the quality was there and the game flowed nicely into them.  A couple of my favorites were the fleets arriving/attacking at the end as well as the heart to heart Shepard has with Adm. Anderson just before he dies.

2. The flow of combat was excellent, very well done BioWare, worthy of all the praise you have been receiving for this game.

3. The combat during the final mission on Earth is epic and amazing, and the atmosphere is well enhanced by the graphics around you, it really has that desperate and apocalyptic feel.  I was so engrossed in the story and while running down the hill to the beam I really felt desperate to avoid Harbingers (?) laser heading down.

4. Shepard showing his humanity in this game just really solidifies the game as a whole and sets the mood.  The way he talks with his love interest and responds to friends concerns shows that he is human to, not some video game super hero.

5. I enjoyed the talks with Liara, and the digital time capsule so to speak, she has always been very well scripted and a very developed character.  

That seems a fitting point to move to where I felt the game needed improvement,
1. It felt to me as though, besides Liara, conversations with the rest of your crew were very limited in comparison to last game.  Simply selecting them and standing there and listening is very blase, and boring, I was hoping as in the past two games we could really interact with our crew.

2. As stated above I did enjoy the combat for the final assault, however I was expecting a much more ME2 feel to it, if not even more harsh.  This final mission seemed very short and concise and with very little conversation and choice.  

3. Also due to the trailers that had been put out I had been expecting to see much more of the Normandy in some cut scenes as well as the rest of the squad during the battles.  The end of the game offers opportunity to do some seriously amazing cut scene work.

4. Another thing that would have been nice to do was some more fighting on earth, or even some post victory cut scenes from around the globe of what was left over, if anything.

5. The “Catalyst” as he is called does not really seem to flow with the story the way it was done.  I do remember a greater being than the Reapers being mentioned, however a small boy does not at all seem to fit with the set up.  

6. I was also almost positive there would be more of Harbinger involved in ME3, due to how much he has been involved since ME2, and we only saw him for all of a 30 second run or so.

7. As much as I understand why the Mass Relays had to be destroyed, the Reapers were responsible for them after all, The explosions should have killed nearby planets based off ME2 Arrival DLC, which to me is a MAJOR inconsistency and am slightly amazed that no one thought about that.

8. Also not a big one, but, when you are caught by the Reapers on the galaxy map, I was hoping for some sort of cut scene seeing the SR-2 Normady being blasted into dust or something, this could use some improvement.

And more of a suggestion rather than a negative, it would be nice to be able to explore the galaxy after the reapers are defeated and to have some more chats with your crew mates after you have one the battle.  I did slightly expect Shepard to die in this however if you work hard enough and make the right decisions then I think your should get more than just a chest plate inhaling.  It could also be beneficial to explore the “Indoctrination Theory” floating around out there on the net, it provides a unique way to incorporate some more end game content DLC and a way to provide some different endings based on which choice you made while Harbinger was trying to indoctrinate Shepard.
As a side note and final thought, I would like to thank BioWare for being so open with all of the commotion over the ending of the game and the level of professionalism and seriousness that RetakeME3 is being treated with is also very appreciated.
Thanks

Modifié par SandMan2012, 18 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[taloris]

AlphaScrewySam wrote...

AeronGreed wrote...

taloris wrote...

AeronGreed wrote...

The indoctrination theory really gives me hope, no lie loool I'll admit i wasn't a big fan of the ending, but it's still an awesome game regardless.

I think people have to understand how much hard work goes into a game, let alone Mass Effect, and having that whole leaked script fiasco really is a punch to the face of the people working sooo hard on this game.

Yes we were promised an epic conclusion to Shepard's story with multiple endings depending on our choices throughout the whole trilogy, and we didn't get it; but the way the ending was set up gives hope to a bigger picture, something bioware can build on.

And if you're concerned about paying for DLC, don't you think a game of this scale, a game this good, deserves it? Enough people have probably pirated this game already (smh), and the developers don't deserve that. And they definitely don't deserve the abuse from raging fans, without them there would be no Mass Effect!

Believe in Bioware

I would expect having paid $80 for a game to actually have the beginning, middle AND actual end... not something that would stop just shy of a 'real ending' so they could make a quick buck off the people who have staunchly supported the series. Think of DLC as a dessert, sure it's nice but it shouldn't be absolutely essential. If this does turn out to be the case, well, if they think people are upset now... it's going to pale in comparison. I would like to think Bioware, despite being part of EA now, would be better than that.

But at the same time I wouldn't be surprised. My inner cynic is keeping me grounded on this one I think.

I think a lot of people do actually understand the work that goes into something like this, and I'm not hearing that much complaints about the game as a whole, you can go through this thread and find so many people pointing out the things they loved about it. It's just how they handed the ending that's causing the uproar. I, for one, would have been happy to wait a while until they needed time to finish properly, not simply lump a 10 minute ending that contradicted everything they promised and didn't make even the tiniest shred of sense. 

Yeah i definitely agree with DLC being a sort of dessert/side dish =P But honestly, i think if bioware does release the DLC, they owe it to us fans to make it free. BUT at the same time, I'm just disappointed in how harsh the comments are about the ending, i mean it's okay to not like something, but where do you draw the line of just being plain offensive. I'm not just saying that it happens on these forums, but more so on the comments on youtube and other articles.

Personally tho, IF you are to pay for DLC, I wouldn't mind, i mean it IS the last time we'll get to play Shepard's story. Should it have been on the disc to begin with? Sure, but, IF bioware decides to pack this DLC with so much content for an epic ending, then it would probably be 3 discs you pop into the xbox as opposed to 2 =P

I'm also wondering if the leaked script had anything to do with them not delaying the game to refine the ending more? I don't know, but here's hoping that IF a DLC is shelled out, it'll maybe be Act 2 of the war for earth? A man can only dream lol

I disagree about the free DLC thing, that sounds a little too much like gamer selfentitlement.

As a general rule I have no problem paying for DLC, becuase by and large it isn't/shouldn't be essential for the overall experience. What i do have a problem with is if in fact the rumours are true that the 'real ending' -which is essential to the story of the game- has been witheld so they can charge us for it. That right there just screams a lack of ethics to me

I already paid for my game ($80 is the price for the standard edition in Australia BTW, CE was about $110) so in fact I should be entitled to expect a complete game and get closure to my story of Commander Shepard. They want to bring out DLC for extra missions etc and charge us for it, fine, just don't make them so they're a crucial point in the story let alone the ending of it.

[alcatan]

Have just read Drew Karpyshyn's interview about his original Dark energy ending, and with all due respect to him, I must say we got off lucky with what Bioware gave us.

However with reference to the Youtube video further up about how this is not the real ending and it will be released as a "closure" DLC, I'm not pay a dime for a better ending, I will not pay a dime for anymore DLC for the ME series, I already paid for an N7edition, I deserve to be given what I paid for. I won't be "milked like a cow" for every penny I've got.

Bioware Built Mass Effect around a Paragon/Renegade decision scheme, why is it so hard to make a truly worthwhile ending, ranging from catastrophic Renegade,the reapers win shep dies, becomes a husk to an amazing Paragon, shep wins, disables the reapers so their technology can be understood, the true origin of the reapers is revealed etc and all the permutations in between based on our choices, war assets and galactic readiness score.

People need to go back and watch Babylon 5's final episode "sleeping in Light", then they will see what a truly amazing ending to a space opera is.

[keks666]

end is epic fail but the whole game is just a long movie with action moments. interactions with crew mates are on minimum, citadel is the only place you can visit etc. i think too many resources went to swtor.