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[Safoulan]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

If that's the case, they just sold us a $60 game that they knew didn't have a proper ending, and they have been planning in advance all along to sell us the ending of the game for an extra $10. Does that somehow make you feel better?

I would say that's actually correct, though. Since Bioware isn't Bioware anymore, they're EAware. And we all know how much EA cares about it's walking wallets. . . oops I mean "customers".

I never said it made me feel better or worse, or that others should feel any particular way about this information.

I wanted to chuck ME3 out the window when I first experienced the ending.

However, if you want to talk about feelings:
Customers fussing about how their money is spent is nothing new.
Entertainment is rarely free & yet we continue to pay.
Folks threaten to boycott (GameInformer gets that all the time) when they've already paid.
Like they  need to justify a small chunk of their Entertainment budget because they're not completely entirely unrealistically satisfied.
ME3 has already made a considerable amount of money.
If disgruntled ME3 players 'plan' is to stick it to the EA 'man', I think that time has come and gone.

What is $60 anyway? We pay that and more for various kinds of Entertainment.
Some of it satisfies, some of it doesn't.
3D Movies & Unintelligible Cell Phone Bills garrote your wallet worse than most video games ever have.
Get angry about the story not making sense, not the money you already spent on it.
Heck, roughly 95% of the game was a blast anyway.
So a large percentage of people's money was worth something!
That's more than most could say about the 3D movies they paid for where... the entire movie was a bust w/wretched 3D conversion.

Besides, the DLC ending could be free.
If so it would be added to the 'Gaming History' that ME already made with a game that recognizes your past playthroughs & had physical copies launched into space via weather balloons.

The game that fooled/indoctrinated it's players.
Who cares how many of them pitch a fit?
The infamy/notoriety it gains is incredible & likely MORE people will pay for it.

Claire Dunphy: "What's the plan Phill?"

Additionally - folks saying that Indoc Theory (which is totally true! just sayin) makes it worse... that's now. When we don't HAVE the ending. Rumor is FREE DLC in April. If it's free and it satisfies, it's video game legend.

DLC is additional content. If you want it, buy it. If you don't, then don't.
If the 'real' ending is free, I'd say that's fair.
If it's not, kinda sleezy.
But either way, April aint here yet so we won't know till then.

Modifié par Safoulan, 18 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[doodiebody]

Minus a few minor bugs and planet scanning, I loved everything about this game until the last fifteen minutes. The ending has more or less ruined the whole series for me. I just can't fathom how they played through those endings and thought, "Yep, perfect."

I don't hate the ending because it isn't happy. While I'd like to have survived, I was ready to see some major losses, including my own life. I hate the ending because IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE, offers no real closure, and manages to completely negate all of the choices we agonized over in the previous games.

To elaborate on it not making any sense:

1) So I hear them say nobody made it to the beam and I see death all around me, seems pretty likely I'm the only one alive. But wait! 5 seconds later Anderson says he "followed me up" and he seems pretty unharmed. What? How? Where was he?

2) He says he's at a "different" area and then beats me to the console. Er, what?! There's only one path to the console, the one I'm on. Where, exactly, did he "cross over"? There's nowhere in the place for him to have reached the console asides from the path I was on.

Ok, honestly, I can forgive those. The scenes with TIM and sitting down with Anderson afterwards were pretty good...but then.

3) So I'm just supposed to accept that I'm being magically lifted up by some spirit elevator? Say what now?

4) I'm also supposed to accept some magical, godlike, child-avatar thing is the catalyst and controls all the reapers with basically no explanation at all?

5) Despite uniting the geth and the quarians, apparently this catalyst knows all and informs me peace will never work. Synthetics will always be our overlords. Glad my actions influenced the ending. Oh wait.

6) So apparently I jump into a magical beam that somehow turns everybody into cyborgs. Sorry, I don't get it. I know it's science fiction and all, but that makes no sense.

7) So the magical beam has made everybody cyborgs and apparently is destroying the relays for some reason. And then there's the normandy running from the cyborg beam that's blowing up relays. Why is the normandy running again? I thought they were fighting. Why are they way out there?

8) So the normandy crashes and out come Joker and EDI...and then Liara. What? Liara was in my squad on Earth, I'm pretty sure she died. Or at least wasn't on the Normandy. How exactly did she escape?

9) Now the credits roll and then I'm back on the normandy as if nothing happened. We're all alive, nobody's a cyborg, and nobody has anything to say other than, "hello shepard." Yeah, I get it, it's so you can sell me DLC. But how exactly are you explaining this? We're just going to pretend the ending didn't happen for the sole sake of selling me DLC? Awesome. Good luck with that.

It's like BioWare tried way too hard to think of a "twist" ending instead of just having the reapers be destroyed after the scene with TIM. Seriously, I can't be the only one who would have been totally happy if I'd have just sat down with Anderson and watched the reapers blow up. Getting rid of the entire scene with the god-avatar-child-aura-thingy would have made the ending 10 times better.

The whole dream/indoctrination theories are interesting and fairly well supported, but I can't imagine BioWare was really willing to give us a fake ending like that. Especially considering the stargazer scene after the credits. If it was all a dream, why would that scene even exist?

In the end, it was basically a terrible ending to my favorite series of all time. I had planned on playing all the way from 1 back to 3 in order to see how things played out with different choices, but I certainly have no plans now. I can already tell it turns out exactly the same no matter what I do.

[Rock Gotti]

Sheridan31 wrote...

Rock Gotti wrote...

Am I the only one that got the strategy guide?  Cause it clearly states on page 323 that you can have an ending where you can destroy the Reapers and Shepard lives.

You mean the red ending destroying the reaper and seeing shepard in the ruines?
Do you need 3000 aktive military forces for it?

Well i still do not understand a lot of things.I am unsure of what was indoctrination/a dream. Where the normandy is, where shepard is (citadel, still on the landing beam). What happens to the others and why does he survive what happens to the starchild etc.

I wish Bioware would not just listen but also explain.

I am really curious about the ending.

Okay...so this is what the book says verbatim:

If you imported a ME2 save in which you saved the collector base:

At a 4,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and "saved" Anderson, Shep lives.

At a 5,000 Readiness Rating, if you choose to destroy the Reapers and did not "save" Anderson, Shep lives.


It gives the same numbers for if you imported a ME2 save and chose to destroy the collector base.

It also goes into detail in what you are supposed to say to the Illusive Man during the game so that when you get to the end he doesn't do that Biotic blast and kill Anderson.  I suppose that's what they mean by "save" Anderson.


I would probably subscribe to the theory that its all a "Dallas-like" dream sequence.  That sounds most logical, but who really knows for sure.

[weltraumhamster89]

Arivle wrote...

Nexis7 wrote...
Then again I dont think theres much bioware can do. They could release a DLC but they'll likely charge for it.

Well, they better should. Because otherwise it will hurt their planned DLC sales considerably. Unless there is a DLC with better ending (I don't care if payed or not) I'm not going to buy any other ME3 DLCs and I think I'm not the only one. Not as some kind of "revolt" but it simply gives me no joy to live some "earlier" Shepard story if I "know" how horribly she ends. It simply ruins my dreams and I have no joy from playing such DLCs and living through their stories then.

THIS. I don't think any of the true fans want a DLC that plays before the end - I mean, just to collect some EMS that won't change anything at all or what?

[Ventasmentos]

I was happy with the game. Yeah, the endings we're quite displeasing, but somehow I think the concept fit well. It was the way, it was implemented, that made me kind of sad: You never had any conclusion on your crew, or simply the whole aftermath. I have heard a movie of some sort was supposed to sort this, but I think that would stride against the open world and freedom of the Mass Effect *game* universe - now that would make me really disappointed about this franchise.

Of course, I'd always want Shepard to live, but the way he sacrificed himself was worthy, and the real, solidary shepard would give his life for the mission, if it was worth it. Not sure if controlling the reapers are worth it, though. And how come the mass relays are destroyed if you choose to control the reapers? The reapers would not disappear then, nor should their technology, I think.

Synthesis? No real meaning to this, when nothing was explained by "example". You never get to know the effect of this, and you are in fact sacrificing all spieces in the world to create something else, much like the reapers were at, harvesting spieces to become a part of the reaper forces.

The Stargazer-scene was good and bad at the same time, to me. I liked the idea, but with the mass relays destroyed, it seemed like a hopeless and sad future for all spieces, now isolated from each other, even though they had just become so close.

Overall, a very dramtic (cinematic) game, and I enjoyed it till the end. Almost, at least. Bioware definitely deserve credit for this game and the preceding two, being the definition of a very good, and thoughtful story. Something I haven't seen in video games before. I hope there is more to be seen. You can stop developing SWTOR and DA if that will speed the process.

[Cypher333]

i just want to say that sheperd is wearing his armor when he wake up in the citadel, but it's almost destroyed by the explosion on earth. That's the only mistake i see in the indoctrination theory, saved by seeing sheperd waking up in the "perfect" destruction ending.

[Serlith_]

Give the endings to this guy:
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/
He'll actually make them have sense.

[Tezzajh]

perfect destruction ending was the best, gives hope of a shepard ME4. the series just become epic with gun mods and kinect features and i dont want to see it end

[yejo]

So, to the meat of the issue:



We have already established as much evidence as we can that 'proves' that Shepard is either hallucinating/dreaming just prior to/immediately after he runs into Harbinger's beam/Conduit. The hallucination/dream sequence has been quite well fleshed out, with a lot of compelling environmental evidence to support it (again, please see page 1 for further analysis). I am going to use this particular vehicle of suspension of disbelief to propose that BioWare's intention during this sequence is to flag the player with as many markers as they can: This current reality playing before your eyes (the Citadel, the Catalyst, TIM, Anderson) is a reflection of Shepard. It is the product of his/her mind. The meeting with the Catalyst may or may not be rooted in reality; they may meet in some metalphysical dimension, or Shepard may just hallucinate the entire thing. Either way, this theory would argue that it essentially doesn't matter, because what truly matters is the role of the player in this sequence. Your role. The scene is set in a way that urges the player to become aware of things just not being right, of being a place that mirrors (literally) Shepard's experiences throughout the game. The reality presented on the Citadel is an amalgamation of archetypes of every thing Shepard has seen in the series, which this theory challenges the player to understand as being adirect prompt from BioWare to understand that what is truly happening during this scene is all within Shepard's mind. His/her reality. Under her/his control.



Understanding that the reality on the Citadel as being a cerebral concoction that is entirely of Shepard's creation is important when we arrive upon the Crucible. It becomes a vital understanding when we are faced with these three, seemingly bizarre and unexpected choices that the Catalyst gives us. This theory submits that BioWare is asking the player to actively question EVERYTHING that happens once Shepard runs into Harbinger's beam. The cost of not questioning, or making the right choice even if you do?



Real-time player indoctrination. Shepard's literal death.



Think about it carefully. We arrive on the Crucible, and are faced with an archetype of manipulation, the Catalyst. Taking the form of a child that has come to represent everything that is horrendous about the Reapers to Shepard, the Catalyst/Harbinger provides Shepard with three strange and disorienting choices. He first presents Shepard with the option of Destroy, making swift and empty assertations about how it is the wrong choice because it would kill all synthetic life and Shepard herself/himself. At its surface, this seems like the renegade/chaos option, and is even insidiously portrayed in Renegade Red, a direct nod to the Player himself/herself. Directly appealing to your experiences with how the game works. He then goes on at great length about the Control and Synthesis options, portraying Control as the blue paragon/order option. Again, directly appealing to the Player. He arguesthat Control is the best option, implies that Shepard is the new Catalyst, and leaves us to contemplate the possibility that we could use it to try and save the people we love; after all, we are Shepard, and we would never become like TIM.



Synthesis is the last option explored, and it is portrayed as a compromise or as being the Brave New Hope for the galaxy. I have a suspicion that Synthesis may actually be the 'perfect' choice, but thatis for another theory. (If you're curious, read about the tech-singularity lore within the game, and research humes spork's posts about the singularity within this thread.) Either way, Synthesis smacks of strangeness because it seems so inherently Reaper-oriented. As though it were servicing the Reapers' philosophy more strongly than the other two options.



This moment, when you are standing there, agonizing over your choice? This is your indoctrination moment. This is where, it could be (fantastically and insanely) argued that this is the moment when indoctrination and all of its insidious power becomes as real as it possibly CAN be to the Player. Think about it! We stand there. We agonize. We freak out about the ridiculous choices, and we wonder (like Shepard would) why we just can't ARUGE with the Catalyst (like Shepard would). And then, as this reality seems to be the only way forward (much like how indoctrination presents a version of reality to the indoctrinated that he/she sees as being the ONLY REAL OPTION -- echoes of TIM, Kai Leng, Saren here), we begin to accept it. Tremulously, we start to make our choice.



If you choose Control, then you, the player -- the one who moves through the game though Shepard's eyes; every choice s/he has ever made in the game has been directly because of you -- have been indoctrinated. It mayhave been because you thought you could save your crew, your LI, or that you really could gain perfect Control over the Reapers because you are Shepard. Regardless, you have been duped. Indoctrinated by the game.Your slow exposure to the Reapers in 2007 culminates to this final choice -- complete and free player agency and determination.



If you choose Synthesis, you face a fate similar to that of Control. It's debatable to me at this point as to whether or not you have chosen to fulfill the Reapers' purpose, but indoctrination is still a heavy possibility with this one. The only reason that I state this with any certainty is because, like the ending we see with Control, Shepard is dead at the final credits.



If you choose Destroy, then the Player Indoctrination Theory submits that this is you, the player, deciding whether or not Shepard overcomes the indoctrination attempt being rained upon him/her by Harbinger/the Catalyst. If you decide this option, and if you have enough EMS to ensure that Shepard has enough real-world time to get through the indoctrination attempt/hallucination -- Shepard lives. We see him/her breathing in the rubble of London streets at the end of the game. Shepard has defied indoctrination. You, yourself, have defied indoctrination.



Does this theory make sense? Maybe not. When we consider BioWare's real-world motivations and risks (profit, losing a large fanbase over the disgusting wretchedness of the endings as they currently exist), then the theory is hard to support. But if, for just one moment, we can let ourselves believe that BioWare may just have lived up to their celebrated philiosophy of Player Choice and Player Acutalization, then this theory becomes awe-inspiring. Is it possible? Could BioWare have sacrificed the potential for safe profits in order to bring the most insane and beautiful gaming experience of all time to its fans? The most unprecedented example of player immersion of our times? Would BioWare have truly allowed the risk for profit and angering a serious amount of their fan population in pure deference to the story, and its lore?



It may explain BioWare's silence on the matter, until "more people have played the game", or until all regions have the game. It may explain Jess M.'s twitter about fans "reacting before having all of the facts". It may.... just may explain these super sh*tty endings in a way that would make BioWare the God of RPGs.



Lastly from myself the originator of this note: Many people say that if your EMS is low you can only choose destroy, and you die anyway. Mass Effect has punished lazy shep since ME2. With you dying if your teammates aren't loyal or ship not upgraded. You can in ME2 defeat the collectors, and still die (but it isn't canon). So this might apply to ME3. You have a low EMS score, then you can beat indoctrination, but you will die leaving DLC/Continuing the story pointless just like in ME2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If this is true that would indeed be the Ballsiest move in gaming history.
But it would probably make them complete moneygrabbers, if they then later continue the story through dlc (which 9 outta 10 time you gotto pay for).
But it would be cool if they actually did this and then later put out free dlc that continues the story after you made that indoctrination choice.

[T_elic]

Here's to the off chance that anyone from bioware might actually read this:

I loved ME3. You used the term "emotionally engaging" a lot while promoting Mass effect 2, but honestly, Mass effect 3 was truely emotionally engaging.
The moment you landed on the moon of palaven and saw a reaper towering out above you... The moment where you didn't do everything right and Tali commits suicide because the Quarian fleet gets destroyed, or the moment you realize Thessia is going to fall.
And not to mention the moments where people like kelly chambers, mordin and other "friends" died.
The game itself is one of the most amazing games i've played in a long time.

And one of the best things was the, for me at least, constant feeling of despair. Knowing that even if you'd manage to resolve the entire conflict, defeat the reapers and everything, there would still be billions of dead and entire worlds destroyed.

Also, while some ask for closure, i think their missing the point that all of ME3 is in a way a form of closure to the series. From the story of Miranda and her father finding a conclusion, to Mordin's personal story ending, to Tali finding her new homeworld... It was, at least in my eyes, all ment as a way of closure.

Still, the ending was far from perfect. While the game itself was amazing, the ending really didn't leave me satisfied.
While i really don't want a ponies and rainbows ending, it would have been nice if some elements of the story or universe were made a bit clearer. Why did the normandy jump to FTL speed out of nowhere? Why was my love interest, Liara back aboard the Normandy when it was pretty clear she got blasted by Harbinger together with Garrus and the rest of us while running to the teleport thingy.

And how will the universe fare after the relays were destroyed? And if i picked the control of synthesis ending, why couldn't they be rebuild? The thing is, while Mass effect 3 itself provided quite a bit of closure for story arcs started in ME1 and ME2, the final 10 minutes destroyed all that by creating more unanswered questions then the 39 hours ME3 took me knew to answer before that.

Still, mass effect 3 was an amazing game. Sure, the ending was far from perfect, but the 39 hours before that were god damn amazing, and that counts for something as well.

[Safoulan]

Cypher333 wrote...

i just want to say that sheperd is wearing his armor when he wake up in the citadel, but it's almost destroyed by the explosion on earth. That's the only mistake i see in the indoctrination theory, saved by seeing sheperd waking up in the "perfect" destruction ending.

Which time Shep wakes up? Before or after the Destroy Choice?

Because it works both ways... anyway.

If Indoc Theory is wrong, Shep's armor melted when Harbingers Beam came close and he faded out on Earth.

If Indoc is correct, when Shep wakes up (either still on Earth or on the rubble of the Citadel, there's two possibilities, the Starchild MAY be the only Indoc Illusion [look it up!] ) the armor is melted as it should be.

[NekOoNinja]

Chris Priestly wrote...
In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

Hanging out with Garrus on the citadel, this idea was pure genius. "Love yous", kisses, and a shootout. Thankfully, taking the shot turned into more of a friendly teasing than ruining the date, and hearing Shepard chuckle was such a relief.

I still have a save for this scene, because it is so uplifting. Makes me remember that not everything in Shepard's journey was filled with dread and sorrow.

[jeweledleah]

Sheridan31 wrote...

Rock Gotti wrote...

Am I the only one that got the strategy guide?  Cause it clearly states on page 323 that you can have an ending where you can destroy the Reapers and Shepard lives.

You mean the red ending destroying the reaper and seeing shepard in the ruines?
Do you need 3000 aktive military forces for it?

Well i still do not understand a lot of things.I am unsure of what was indoctrination/a dream. Where the normandy is, where shepard is (citadel, still on the landing beam). What happens to the others and why does he survive what happens to the starchild etc.

I wish Bioware would not just listen but also explain.

I am really curious about the ending.

4000EMS.  not 3000.  and its near impossible to get with single player alone.  and by near impossible - I mean you have to metagame very specific decisions through all three games, and own every story DLC, with possible exception of arrival and you'd still be cutting it real close

this ending, Rock - is the basis for indocrination theory.  becasue destroy ending is the only one that goes against child's wishes, and its the only one that implies that Shepard lived.

that said?  no, bioware is not hiding a real ending.  what we got was it.  between the faunts music, the cheering hammer forces on the ground, and your best friend/LI /EDI or supposedly squadmate you are closest to - alive on some eden like planet - bioware though we'd have enough closure.

yeah... no.

and I'm not giving up untill there's a direct, official, clear statement from bioware, signed by one of the project leads that says: "we are keeping the ending as is, no ifs ends or buts"  at which point, I'll officialy move bioware into the same priority slot as Blizzard - aka no DLC purchases and only buy their new games if they are on deep deep sale (I'm talking cup of coffee kind of sale - 75% or more off)  and even then, only after reviews and spoilers.

its not a threat.  its my right as a consumer.

[Le0n1]

I'll try to be as concise and direct as I can; many users on the forum have already made the points that I wanted to make, but I still want to emphasize some of the issues left by the conclusion of the game.

Let me start by saying that ME3 was a fantastic emotional experience, an epic and entertaining narrative that has few parallels in an industry where originality has become synonym with unnecessary risk. I loved the mix of budding moments (Sheppard banter with Garrus while both were trying to prove who was the better shot), sacrifice (Thane and Legion's deaths were beautifully constructed), moral conflict (should you save the Quarians after what they did to the Geth), terrifying sequences (I was petrified when I witnessed Thessia's fall). Have to give a special mention to the romantic relationship I decided to pursue with my Shepard. In ME1 I dated Ashley, a strong female character punctuated by a very distinctive set of flaws and imperfections, but someone well aware of who she was and what she wanted, qualities that made me believe she was the one capable of helping Shepard support the excruciating burden placed on his shoulders. Of course in ME2, for some reason that escapes me, she started to doubt my Shepards intentions, and in ME3 she maintained her suspicions even after he left Cerberus and destroyed the Collectors. I couldn't sustain a relationship where trust was an issue, not when he had so much riding on him. Then Miranda entered the frame. For me, Shepards fascination with her began the second he woke up in that lab and found out that she was responsible from bringing him back from total oblivion (that sexy australian accent helped too). He admired her intelligence, her body, her resolve, and she respected his skills, his ability, his capability to overcome the odds when all seemed lost. In short, Miranda needed someone that accepted her for who she was, Shepard wanted someone who believed in him, no matter what. That's what made the last conversation between the two so poingnat to me. During those brief seconds of interaction, you could see the yearning, the longing in their eyes, in their voice, how much they wanted to be with one another. Now, I'm not a romantic by nature, far from it, but that moment felt so real that I swore right there and then that I would do whatever it took to let him fulfill his promisse to look for her once the Reapers were destroyed. In a character driven story like ME, set in a universe devastated by mistrust, fallable alliances and war, this chain of events felt all too natural to me, and I thank you for letting me make this story as personal as possible.


But then the last ten minutes came. Many of the problems that have arisen from that ending have already been touched, so I'm going to say this: hipnotic music and an aesthetically pleasing set does not a satisfying end make. Why the hell wasn't Shepard allowed to revolt against mini-Hitler and his final solution? Why couldn't he question his asinine thinking? What kind of faulty logic was that? Doesn't he know that organics, at least humans, are very capable of destroying themselves without the help from synthetics? If you destroy the Mass Relays (I didn't bother with the synthesis ending so I don't if something similar happens) isn't Shepard commiting genocide... again? Wasn't it established in the Arrival DLC that when you destroy a Relay the level of energy it releases is comparable to a Supernova, meaning that not only you obliterate the solar system where it's located, you also cut all supply routes to distant colonies and prevent future species to develop spacefaring capability. Why didn't his crew go look from him? Who created the Catalyst? How was it able to assume the form of the child that Shepard wasn't able to save? Why forcing a definitive conclusion on us when you promissed a considerable variety of endings based on your previous choices? You guys knows that false advertising is a crime, right? What the hell was your intention with that abysmal ending? More importantly, what the f were you guys thinking? Did you guys intend to prevent requests from fans to make another ME game starring Shepard? Seriously, what was the point of all the hours spent with the games, trying to lay the path for the best outcome possible, if we,  the fans, wouldn't have a say in it's conclusion? I don't know if it's clear for you, but I'm at  a complete loss here.

Modifié par Le0n1, 18 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[Safoulan]

I guess I should include my own moments in ME3, as others who support the game have.

1. Meeting Captain Riley at that reactor. It really made the Multi-Player (which I often paused to enjoy)
feel connected to the main story.

2. Getting Bad**** Ashley Williams back in my Squad. Her dialogue & romance is fantastic.

3. The Quip on Sarkesh when the Yague breaks free & Shep goes "There goes another Shadow Broker." I was rewarded for bringing Garrus & Liara along, G says "I could've sworn I heard him muttering 'T'soni' the whole time." , L goes "Not funny..." LOL

4. On Earth when we make camp & Shep roams, talking to crew. There's a Medic on the 'line' w/a female soldier out on the front. He's giving her instructions on wrapping another soldier's shot off leg so he doesn't bleed to death. She succeeds... then I come back & she tells him the private has stopped breathing, no pulse. Then she says a Sovereign class Reaper has arrived. He says for her to hang in there but she assesses her odds and recalls that defeat means Indoc or made into a Husk. She takes out her gun and kills herself ... It broke my heart in all the right places.

That little snippet was one of the things that made the endings to hard to take.
Was it all for nothing?
I don't think it was.

[Scotch42]

Gigerstreak wrote...

Bioware and Mass Effect were like watching sports. You found a team you liked. They won the playoffs. During the final play they kicked for the winning field goal and it fell SHORT! They lost all because of those final 3 points and it was like the kicker didn't even try.

To use your sports analogy...to me, the ending isn't so much that the kicker missed. That makes some sense. It's more like the kicker suddenly removed all his clothes, took off running towards his own goal-line while yelling "look at me, I'm an antelope!", then knocked himself out cold when he ran into the goalpost.

Then the post-game show gets interrupted by a replay of the 1969 moon landing.

Anyway, I really don't have any favorite moments about the game and series anymore. The ending tarnished all the experiences for me.

[doodiebody]

Scotch42 wrote...

Gigerstreak wrote...

Bioware and Mass Effect were like watching sports. You found a team you liked. They won the playoffs. During the final play they kicked for the winning field goal and it fell SHORT! They lost all because of those final 3 points and it was like the kicker didn't even try.

To use your sports analogy...to me, the ending isn't so much that the kicker missed. That makes some sense. It's more like the kicker suddenly removed all his clothes, took off running towards his own goal-line while yelling "look at me, I'm an antelope!", then knocked himself out cold when he ran into the goalpost.

Then the post-game show gets interrupted by a replay of the 1969 moon landing.

Anyway, I really don't have any favorite moments about the game and series anymore. The ending tarnished all the experiences for me.

This.  Had they made the ending show that I definitely failed I'd have felt burned, but at least I'd understand.  The endings they gave us just make no sense at all.

[Redban103]

Alright I might as well do an actual list of concerns to pinpoint my main issues.

Many things were done right so don't be discouraged when I only list the weaker areas and things I feel need improvement:

Vehicles:  Not a huge issue since the gaming style we're used to is done on foot. The use of vehicles was introduced when using the Atlas mech at Grissom Academy early in the game, so I was a bit surprised to not see the concept used a bit more. It was introduced so why not use it? Some new conbat style once in awhile to keep things fresh in a sense. More of a why not kind of thing, I wouldn't mind blowing reapers out of buildings in one of those tanks during Earth's mission.

Krogan/Grunt: Bit disappointed when I learned my final crew didn't include a Krogan when Grunt was probably in my squad 90% of the time during my first few playthrough's of ME2. The krogan was my interpretation of the iconic muscle of the galaxy or just that badass character to tear people apart along side with. They even made Grunt insane in this game too. After seeing him take on an entire rachni cave and walk out alive made me want to recruit him more than ever. Seems like such a waste but at least they included him so I'm not totally butthurt. I don't mind reducing the roster but I feel it could've been balanced better with just one Krogan. Not a huge fan of replacement characters. Not to mention the Krogan didn't make too many appearances, even in the final battle.

New Players: Apparently if you don't import an ME2 save you miss out on involvement from the ME2 crew like Thane or Grunt? My friend watched me play a bit and he was like who the hell is Grunt? He's so badass. Then after my first playthrough where I gave TIM the collector base, I was surprised to see how it didn't change cerberus at all. That was my impression of a big descision where you continue to trust Cerberus's true colors or not and whether or not it will bite you in the ass later. It's like they tried to play it safe for newcomes but ultimately I feel that the new players to the franchise got cheated out a bit. It's like ME2 had no impact on the story whatsoever and if so, everyone just died except you, Miranda and the ME1 crew. This is just a hunch tho, maybe when you start the game those 3 game choices have impact, the problem is it is NOT clear.

The Final Battle and Insignificant Choices: With any last mission there are going to be critiques for the super high expectations but I expected taking back the entire planet wouldn't happen in just one single city, let alone not have any extra features to make it more memorable. Not to mention I farmed renegade like crazy just to get the Geth to not kill the Quarians, then I don't even see one geth ship or single tiny soldier. Getting those Geth Primes to join me got me hyped, even seeing them remotely helping in the background while I fight would've added to the satisfaction. Having 1-2 of them drop down and deploy from a dropship would've been crazy even if it seems like a small detail. In general I feel they could've included more endgame content to make us really never forget. Geth just being examples, just like Krogan and Mercenary involvement lacking as well.

Ofc the Ending: I actually won't go too in detail here since it's old news now but I still can't understand how that went through editing and got approved. Not to mention all the questions we were left unasnwered, some were clearly obvious like WTF was the normandy doing in between a jump during the final battle of humanity? Choices, impacts from "bad" descisions and etc. didn't factor into the end, it's like building up suspense then dropping us off a skyscraper. Overall it was just depressing, regardless if it was a true ending or not, sad endings were expected and a well orchestrated ending can have everyone at peace, but this one is poorly written and again, just depressing. That might be some people's thing but majority of gamers, I'm sure, want to feel good after playing a game. Usually a game is what some people use to escape from a depressed state, not enter one. There's a lot of buzz about a possible indoctrination of Shepard but really if it's true then that means you just released an unfinished game so I won't go into detail with that. 

In Conclusion: You got it right for the most part but the ending should've been priority. One of the most lasting impressions you leave a player is with the ending since it is the last and most recent moment they will experience and remember the game by. Very important to make sure you have customers walking away happy and satisfied, not out to destroy your business which is your responsibility to maintain.

Modifié par Redban103, 18 mars 2012 - 03:57 .

[jeweledleah]

Scotch42 wrote...

Gigerstreak wrote...

Bioware and Mass Effect were like watching sports. You found a team you liked. They won the playoffs. During the final play they kicked for the winning field goal and it fell SHORT! They lost all because of those final 3 points and it was like the kicker didn't even try.

To use your sports analogy...to me, the ending isn't so much that the kicker missed. That makes some sense. It's more like the kicker suddenly removed all his clothes, took off running towards his own goal-line while yelling "look at me, I'm an antelope!", then knocked himself out cold when he ran into the goalpost.

Then the post-game show gets interrupted by a replay of the 1969 moon landing.

Anyway, I really don't have any favorite moments about the game and series anymore. The ending tarnished all the experiences for me.

ok, that just made me laugh for 5 minutes straight.  very apt analogy

[Storenumber9]

Looks like Bioware has gotten all the feedback they need from their fans with this thread alone.

Although, I hope they don't go towards the indoctrination theory. People are already expecting that.

[kmja_26]

i did like the ending soo much. did not like that Commander Shepard did leave us. becase any of the 3 chose you do he will not return like its a happing ending

It was a great game pluss the ending as well

[-PG-Skyre]

"Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection." - Casey Hudson on the Conclusion of Mass Effect 3

"....inspiring and uplifting ending...."

I think BWs idea of Inspiring and Uplifting is really freaking warped...

Great game, but the ending falls well short of the mark. Needs a lot of work there.

[Twinzam.V]

doodiebody wrote...

Scotch42 wrote...

Gigerstreak wrote...

Bioware and Mass Effect were like watching sports. You found a team you liked. They won the playoffs. During the final play they kicked for the winning field goal and it fell SHORT! They lost all because of those final 3 points and it was like the kicker didn't even try.

To use your sports analogy...to me, the ending isn't so much that the kicker missed. That makes some sense. It's more like the kicker suddenly removed all his clothes, took off running towards his own goal-line while yelling "look at me, I'm an antelope!", then knocked himself out cold when he ran into the goalpost.

Then the post-game show gets interrupted by a replay of the 1969 moon landing.

Anyway, I really don't have any favorite moments about the game and series anymore. The ending tarnished all the experiences for me.

This.  Had they made the ending show that I definitely failed I'd have felt burned, but at least I'd understand.  The endings they gave us just make no sense at all.

After a rollercoaster of awesomness of 30 hours, the fact that the ending doesnt make sense is what hurts the most, and that half breath of Shepard at the end just adds to the confusion.
The end doesnt connect anything, is just... there! It doesnt give the "meat" that im used to from Bioware, it just throw a "bone" and says there its over it will probably continue in a Mass Effect 4 and you were being indoctrinated by Harbinger thats why it didnt felt real.

[etnah]

hello everyone ^^

excuse my english (I'm french) but I can't let this slip.

first, I love this game, I love the 3 games in fact (I'm as crazy as to have it on ps3 and xbox ^^). my favorite moment is mordin's death (it's sooOOOO sad) and grunt scares me when he run in front of the rachni. it's cray because I hate him, he takes Wrex place, but when I saw him run, I just said "NOOOOOO". ^^

but, there comes the ending...... and my loved game become incoherent...... and that for that kind of game is unforgivable!

I read the "dream" theory but in what way it's better? the ending still sucks. and why in the hell they chose to be so vague instead of.... I don't kwno maybe show us our shepard dying in his/her dream while the reapers destroyed everything?

and even with this, it mean that peace doesn't existe in ME? because you have the choice to destroy, to enslave or to merge in order to avoid war with "other" (other meaning synthétics). waou! that's pretty lame for a paragon shepard that has saved the rachni, unite the turien and krogan, and that has fought to bring peace between quarien and geth........

I don't denied your wonderfull biblical metaphor (it's really great and well though) but with the incoherence that filled this ending it became a monster, that can existe only if all is a bad dream.

so I have the choice: beleive that it's a "dream" and that my game has no ending, or that my paragon shapard fought for a ghost (peace) in 3 game and that no good ending existes.

I'm really disapopinted.... I have followed my squadmate until the end and I don't kown what happen to them, I let the fleet starving to death (what a glorious death!), and I descovert that Joker was in fact a coward that run from battle (and some of my squadmate have magical power to appear in the Normandy...).

I have the feeling that bioware betray me.... that they promise big conscequences that are not in the game (I waited for something big with the rachni queen.... and I don't talk about the choice at the end.......), I read that the online thing was not compulsory but it's a lie (I have a save from ME1, and ME2 and with all I can do I have only 3581 ressources with the 50% thing......), endingS should have been gorgious and instead I have a unique "thing" that I prefer to consider as a (bad) joke.......

when I played ME3 I pray (neary^^) for more ME, for a ME in the rachni war for exemple, but now....... if that "thing" is not corrected with a big dlc with real endingS for free (I have allready paid my copies.....) I may just erase Bioware from my mind and never ever heard about what they sale!

[glitchedPhila]

removed by request.

Modifié par glitchedPhila, 18 mars 2012 - 08:18 .