23455 réponses à ce sujet

[bazzag]

Ellythe wrote...

I loved Mass Effect 3. Great characters, variable gameplay. Multiple times my adrenaline must have spiked right through the roof. I thought it was the best of the trilogy. And then the ending. Everything from the red beam hitting Shepard doesn't make any sense. It's not that I didn't like that the ending was sad, it's that it was arbitrary and nonsensical. I could understand watching Shepard and his (her) companions die, even watching Earth burn. But I didn't see any of that.

Which is why I believe the Indoctrination Theory. It makes more sense than the ending as it stands.

In many ways you get the feeling the plot holes and small things that don't quite make sense were deliberate

[Hainted]

Mordin singing while the Shroud exploded around him.Best moment in the game.
If anything the endings need to be expanded to answer the following questions:

1.Why didn't Shepard point out the flaw in the StarChild's arguement that Synthetics and Organics can't co-exist?Joker and EDI are in love and the Geth and Quarians have settled their differences so his arguement for reaping is rendered invalid.In fact it should make him question whether he's "reaping" to protect the organics or to stop them from creating a more powerful A.I. than even the Reapers.Considering how big a part Organic/Synthetic co-existence played in the last 2 games this not being used by Shepard is mind boggling.

2.What truly destroyed the Earth?The Reapers,The explosion of the Mass Relays,or a 70 Billion ton space station exploding in low orbit and crashing to the surface?

3.Why did my crew and friends suddenly turn coward and flee the system?I thought they were on Earth defending the galaxy,but as soon as I left,they crap themselves and run?

4.What was different about the Mass Relay explosion in Arrival(that destroyed the system) and the Mass Relay explosions in ME3?

5.Is Shepard now a Christ Figure?That kid saying "THE SHEPARD" made me very uncomfortable.

I get it if the next trilogy follows a new hero and crew trying to rebuild galactic society and reclaim the relays.That's actually a very good idea,but it needs a better set-up,and true closure for this story and set of characters.

[Scyldemort]

In the interest of showing that the ending could, in fact, be worse than it is, I submit the following:

---------------------------------

*THE NORMANDY CRASHES IN A MYSTERIOUS JUNGLE*

Joker: *steps out* "Weren't we just in the skies over Earth fighting the Reapers a second ago?"
Liara: "This is very, very odd."

*monster made of smoke attacks, Normandy crew drive it off*

Joker: "OK, what the hell is going on?"

Jack, Kate, Hurley: *stumble out of the jungle*

Normandy crew: *stares at the Lost crew in shock*

Lost crew: *stares at the Normandy crew in shock*

Hurley: "Dude..."

*CREDITS*

[thehomeworld]

Oh come on Lost was good in the first year.....But yeah not feeling the whole Lost with Normandy vibe here if they left all that and the grandfather out it would've been just a copy/paste OK ending not a copy/paste OK, confusing, wtf ending.

[Dandynermite]

Archonsg wrote...

Dandynermite wrote...

Don't go down the Shepard is indoctrinated line... It would ruin the entire series. If indoctrination was going to happen, it would have already happened. Arrival two days next to the reaper artifact, Sovereign, Harbringer on the Collector Base, the countless encounters with Saren etc etc. All they should do is just put in a scene with Shepard and their LI on earth getting married and living happily after or whatever, it kills the series like Bioware wants, leaves room for dlc to mop things up, and doesn't leave you with an alive shepard sitting on the citadel doing nothing

I am with you on this one.
Indoctrination is a grasp at straws that many fans want to believe in the hope that its real and that the whole thing didn't happen. However Indoctrination itself brings about a whole slew of problems. 

The way I see it is that if Shepard is indoctrinated and hallaucinated that last piece of 15 mins craptastic hell, he is still on earth on London. Its the ONLY thing that makes any sense as long as we HAVE to take the current cut scenes. 
But that means that the crucible never fired.
Could not have since no one went up there to triger it.

But if you insist on Shepard being on the Citadel, refer to my post on page 231 :
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9992961/231
I would love to hear how you explain that part while keeping thru to events as we saw it, and keeping it "real" and not go even further into "space magic".

Oh yes, by "you" I do not mean you Dandynermite but those who are in general concensus that this Indoctrination theory is the way to go.

I rather they just admit that didn't think it through and gave us all utter BS and make this "bad" ending one of the BAD endings and work around and patch / dlc / expasion /whatever so that we get an ending where *our choices matter* and one that makes sense.

Nice to see somebody agrees. If Fallout New Vegas can give me a cut scene for every little action I make with a voice over to explain it with a splinter of EA's budget, then the only reason EA wouldn't is because they HATE their fans. 

The indoctrination theory is only around because of how poor the endings were. If you took them out and made some real ending where our choices effected it LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD, then it would all blow away I think, as looking at the game logically you can quite easily tell that Shepard was not indoctrinated. 

[Scyldemort]

As far as Shepard being a Christ figure, that's totally appropriate... if you had Liara play up Shepard as a hero in the record she was making. If not, then it's just one more example of your choices not mattering.

[jkflipflopDAO]

Scyldemort wrote...

In the interest of showing that the ending could, in fact, be worse than it is, I submit the following:

---------------------------------

*THE NORMANDY CRASHES IN A MYSTERIOUS JUNGLE*

Joker: *steps out* "Weren't we just in the skies over Earth fighting the Reapers a second ago?"
Liara: "This is very, very odd."

*monster made of smoke attacks, Normandy crew drive it off*

Joker: "OK, what the hell is going on?"

Jack, Kate, Hurley: *stumble out of the jungle*

Normandy crew: *stares at the Lost crew in shock*

Lost crew: *stares at the Normandy crew in shock*

Hurley: "Dude..."

*CREDITS*

Honestly, that would have answered more questions than the version we got.

[spawnrofls]

Modifié par spawnrofls, 18 mars 2012 - 07:41 .

[nobum62]

if the indoctrination theory is true, then i want the people who died (mordin, thane, legion, anderson) to actually be alive. i want it so that they never actually died, and it was just an illusion, part of the indoctrination process.

btw, i thought the ending was a big clusterf*ck, with the catalyst-child's logic, and shepard not asking enough questions. i hope bioware can explain it to us, and i have faith they can pull it off

[wsandista]

Dandynermite wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Dandynermite wrote...

Don't go down the Shepard is indoctrinated line... It would ruin the entire series. If indoctrination was going to happen, it would have already happened. Arrival two days next to the reaper artifact, Sovereign, Harbringer on the Collector Base, the countless encounters with Saren etc etc. All they should do is just put in a scene with Shepard and their LI on earth getting married and living happily after or whatever, it kills the series like Bioware wants, leaves room for dlc to mop things up, and doesn't leave you with an alive shepard sitting on the citadel doing nothing

I am with you on this one.
Indoctrination is a grasp at straws that many fans want to believe in the hope that its real and that the whole thing didn't happen. However Indoctrination itself brings about a whole slew of problems. 

The way I see it is that if Shepard is indoctrinated and hallaucinated that last piece of 15 mins craptastic hell, he is still on earth on London. Its the ONLY thing that makes any sense as long as we HAVE to take the current cut scenes. 
But that means that the crucible never fired.
Could not have since no one went up there to triger it.

But if you insist on Shepard being on the Citadel, refer to my post on page 231 :
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9992961/231
I would love to hear how you explain that part while keeping thru to events as we saw it, and keeping it "real" and not go even further into "space magic".

Oh yes, by "you" I do not mean you Dandynermite but those who are in general concensus that this Indoctrination theory is the way to go.

I rather they just admit that didn't think it through and gave us all utter BS and make this "bad" ending one of the BAD endings and work around and patch / dlc / expasion /whatever so that we get an ending where *our choices matter* and one that makes sense.

Nice to see somebody agrees. If Fallout New Vegas can give me a cut scene for every little action I make with a voice over to explain it with a splinter of EA's budget, then the only reason EA wouldn't is because they HATE their fans. 

The indoctrination theory is only around because of how poor the endings were. If you took them out and made some real ending where our choices effected it LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD, then it would all blow away I think, as looking at the game logically you can quite easily tell that Shepard was not indoctrinated. 

If Shepard was indoctrinated wouldn't he have sabotaged the war effort much earlier, wouldn't Shepard have gone around destroying resistance to the Reapers instead of helping them, it just doesn't make sense. The "Indoctrination Theroy" just proves how bad the endings all were, since people perfer a hallucination caused by mind control to the ending they got.

[MysticBinary82]

Dandynermite wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Dandynermite wrote...

Don't go down the Shepard is indoctrinated line... It would ruin the entire series. If indoctrination was going to happen, it would have already happened. Arrival two days next to the reaper artifact, Sovereign, Harbringer on the Collector Base, the countless encounters with Saren etc etc. All they should do is just put in a scene with Shepard and their LI on earth getting married and living happily after or whatever, it kills the series like Bioware wants, leaves room for dlc to mop things up, and doesn't leave you with an alive shepard sitting on the citadel doing nothing

I am with you on this one.
Indoctrination is a grasp at straws that many fans want to believe in the hope that its real and that the whole thing didn't happen. However Indoctrination itself brings about a whole slew of problems. 

The way I see it is that if Shepard is indoctrinated and hallaucinated that last piece of 15 mins craptastic hell, he is still on earth on London. Its the ONLY thing that makes any sense as long as we HAVE to take the current cut scenes. 
But that means that the crucible never fired.
Could not have since no one went up there to triger it.

But if you insist on Shepard being on the Citadel, refer to my post on page 231 :
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9992961/231
I would love to hear how you explain that part while keeping thru to events as we saw it, and keeping it "real" and not go even further into "space magic".

Oh yes, by "you" I do not mean you Dandynermite but those who are in general concensus that this Indoctrination theory is the way to go.

I rather they just admit that didn't think it through and gave us all utter BS and make this "bad" ending one of the BAD endings and work around and patch / dlc / expasion /whatever so that we get an ending where *our choices matter* and one that makes sense.

Nice to see somebody agrees. If Fallout New Vegas can give me a cut scene for every little action I make with a voice over to explain it with a splinter of EA's budget, then the only reason EA wouldn't is because they HATE their fans. 

The indoctrination theory is only around because of how poor the endings were. If you took them out and made some real ending where our choices effected it LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD, then it would all blow away I think, as looking at the game logically you can quite easily tell that Shepard was not indoctrinated. 

No you do not get the idea. If he is indoctrinated/hallausinating than nothing happend and the story could easely continue.
I don't say the IT is canon but it would if integrated good make a lot more sense to many thinks the catalyst said and how he come to be the little boy.
BTW. why is the Catalyst the little boy anyway?

@wsandista
The Reapers can indoctrinat you very quickly if they want but that would be very harmfull to the subject.

Modifié par MysticBinary82, 18 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[Kathleen321]

spawnrofls wrote...

lol I'm still not sold on the indoctrination theory.. I'm more sold on the "bioware was trolling" theory

[Lacan2]

It's always hard to criticise literature because many people feel it's purely subjective.

One thing that's not, however, is the literary value of a deus ex machina character like the Catalyst. This is generally seen as a poor writer's crutch in modern writing. My high school creative writing teacher used to joke that it was fine for the Greeks but we shouldn't engage in it.

To me, it is very surprising to see such an unprofessional element used in such an expensive project. I AM NOT AN ENGLISH MAJOR, but even I was drilled not to use this at both high school and college level English classes. So it makes me wonder at the direction Bioware's writing team will be taking in the future. Are we going to see more of this?

[MysticBinary82]

Kathleen321 wrote...

spawnrofls wrote...

lol I'm still not sold on the indoctrination theory.. I'm more sold on the "bioware was trolling" theory

At what cost? Loosing maybe 70% of their customers and 90% of their fanbase? That would be ridiculous

Modifié par MysticBinary82, 18 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

MysticBinary82 wrote...

No you do not get the idea. If he is indoctrinated/hallausinating than nothing happend and the story could easely continue.
I don't say the IT is canon but it would if integrated good make a lot more sense to many thinks the catalyst said and how he come to be the little boy.
BTW. why is the Catalyst the little boy anyway?

So it's somehow better that they knowingly released a $60+ game to us knowing full well there wasn't an actual ending or any sort of closure - just so they could turn around and milk the fanbase for a further $10-$15 to get the real ending? That's beyond abhorrent. 

This is all the worst fears of DLC come true. You remember all those "loonies" when horse armor came out that swore we'd have to buy our games peacemeal - and we all made fun of them. Well it looks like they were right.

Modifié par jkflipflopDAO, 18 mars 2012 - 07:50 .

[the crazy chikn]

To all those losing hope for the fight to retake ME3, we can't give up!  We need to keep our opinions known and circulating throughout the forums and other social/media sites.  If we give up, then we will see the franchise we know and love fade in to time, and the glory of the series will be forever overshadowed by a series of unfortunate, anti-climactic, and unsatisfying endings. 

The end of ME3 did no justice to the series that should have gone down in history as one of the best sci-fi trilogies in ever, but if we keep up the push, if we keep fighting for the endings we know this series deserves, we may yet see our beloved games adorn the halls of fame!  WE can not give up! 

What would your Shepard do? Would he bow down and accept defeat? Would he let his beliefs be compromised by seemingly undefeatable odds?  Or would he stand up, and fight for what he believes in?  My Shepard would fight until the last breath for his beliefs and I will too.  I refuse to let Shepards story, MY story, end like this! 

If the worldwide outcry of countless  voices fades, then we all will have lost; both EA/BioWare and the unsatisfied consumers.  Please, keep fighting for what you belive in, no matter your position in this struggle, and show EA/BioWare that THEIR loyal fans are fighting for their game and ours.

Show them that it is worth fighting for!

[SupremeLegate]

So their listening and we're talking, when are they going to talk while we listen?

[jeweledleah]

it could be attempt at indocrination. you know last ditch effort by harby to bend Shepard to his will and turn the tide of the battle? it didn't have to be long term indocrination. and Shepard resisting, means Shep can wake up back in london, continue on to the Citadel etc etc.

hell... they don't even have to cut out the Anderson part (even though that part has issues as well, but the conversation was damn powerful - especially the part they cut out. and Shepard crawling to the console, when Hackett calls - exemplifies the essence of Shepard throughout the games) the hallucination part could be the elevator to the child. and Shep could be woken up by his/her squadmates who made it into the Citadel after him/her, as they activated the crucible, because Shep was knocked out. and then the sucess or failure of the battle depends on how well you prepared and which forces you gathered. and its shown. and Shepard fails ending could be the one where you have so few assents that your squadmates died from Harby's beam and when you see them on the ground

[MysticBinary82]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

MysticBinary82 wrote...

No you do not get the idea. If he is indoctrinated/hallausinating than nothing happend and the story could easely continue.
I don't say the IT is canon but it would if integrated good make a lot more sense to many thinks the catalyst said and how he come to be the little boy.
BTW. why is the Catalyst the little boy anyway?

So it's somehow better that they knowingly released a $60+ game to us knowing full well there wasn't an actual ending or any sort of closure - just so they could turn around and milk the fanbase for a further $10-$15 to get the real ending? That's beyond abhorrent. 

This is all the worst fears of DLC come true. You remember all those "loonies" when horse armor came out that swore we'd have to buy our games peacemeal - and we all made fun of them. Well it looks like they were right.

No of cause not but it is a chance for BW to redeem themselfs if the Ending DLC or expension Pack would be free.

[RockyRoberts]

Akael_Bayn wrote...

Quick, deflect the topic to something positive!

...yeah, we're not stupid, you know?
Don't give us this "We don't want to spoil things for people who aren't done" BS.

How about a straight answer about where all the many and varied endings we were promised went?




“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

EDIT/UPDATE: I've gotten lots of "virtual high fives" from various users for putting this up on the first page of the thread, and I just want you guys to know that I appreciate that you appreciate this post! That said, though, I want to let everyone know after this edit, I'm not going to be continuing to log back in and give personal responses to messages. The recent "buy DLC or GTFO" message was recieved loud and clear, and as I stated elsewhere: I'm GTFO-ing. This game, forum, and the related companies are all a footnote in history for me. Again, I appreciate the support, and I don't mean to ignore your positive messages, but I've got other things to spend my time on.

I might not be leaving just yet Bioware, like many others I still have some faith, misplaced or not. I would love to discuss my favorite moments of shepard with the team if I felt like those moments mattered in the end! My choice was taken away, hence a rehash of how we feel.

[Wildhide]

Hackett's big speech when you ask him 'Why me?' as well. He goes on and on about how you get things done, and no matter what people believe in you and will follow you. And that he knows with you at the lead you'll drag everyone through it and out the other side successful. Stuff like that doesn't scream "Starchild forces you to choose random colored death + screwing over galaxy in dark ending" to me.

[culletron1]

First off I'd like to say that other than the ending it was a spectacular game with my only misgivings being story related. It is a game that makes me excited about the future of gaming and where it was good it was utterly amazing. 

However...

They were always going to have a very hard time tying up the series.  From what we had been shown in ME1 and ME2 there was no way to defeat the Reapers without resorting to a deus ex machina (and from my point of view I would rather a sad ending that a fairytale and unrealistic ending). 
The crucible was a horrible plot device.  It was never seeded or foreshadowed in the previous games. To think that there was actually some weapon lying around all this time on Mars that could defeat the, up to now, indestructable reapers is just so ridiculous. They might as well have found a magic stick that kills the reapers if you touch them with it.

Now on to the endings...

If we take the ending presented at face value it really is quite horrible. The six different endings are all the same, they are incoherent, they are deux ex machinas of the worst possible kind. Every single thing that happens after Shepard get zapped by the beam is a disaster story wise. 

What the hell is that star child? Why is there no expanation for any of it. How is shepard breathing? How did Joker escape? How did Anderson get there before shepard? None of it makes the slightest bit of sense and for Mass Effect that is the ultimate sin... The story and characters has been the most important part of Mass Effect for a lot of us fans.To butcher it at the end is to butcher the whole series.

Oddly enough the indoc ending (which also has a hole or two in it) is the one that makes the most sense to me. From the very begining we have been told that there is no way to destroy the reapers. Our extention is inevitable, the cycle has gone on for millions of years... Why would we be able to break it? In which case the final battle was only a battle for the mind of shepard and whether the machines could break him or not.  If that is what was intended then it was badly executed though quite beatiful, bittersweet, brilliant and brave. 
I guess we'll never know if they intended it or not. I hope they did but Occum's Razor dictates that they probably just messed up so badly that it made indoc look more plausable.  

[xaurabh123]

Kathleen321 wrote...

spawnrofls wrote...

lol I'm still not sold on the indoctrination theory.. I'm more sold on the "bioware was trolling" theory

ya all we have got is red blue green explosion

[Kathleen321]

Lacan2 wrote...

It's always hard to criticise literature because many people feel it's purely subjective.

One thing that's not, however, is the literary value of a deus ex machina character like the Catalyst. This is generally seen as a poor writer's crutch in modern writing. My high school creative writing teacher used to joke that it was fine for the Greeks but we shouldn't engage in it.

To me, it is very surprising to see such an unprofessional element used in such an expensive project. I AM NOT AN ENGLISH MAJOR, but even I was drilled not to use this at both high school and college level English classes. So it makes me wonder at the direction Bioware's writing team will be taking in the future. Are we going to see more of this?

I'm an English major at a very competitive University and I agree with
everything you just said. If I wrote a term paper or short story with a deus ex
machina like this, my professors would reward me with a pretty paper filled with
lots of red markings, or just hand it back and refuse to grade me.

Modifié par Kathleen321, 18 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[Dandynermite]

MysticBinary82 wrote...

Dandynermite wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Dandynermite wrote...

Don't go down the Shepard is indoctrinated line... It would ruin the entire series. If indoctrination was going to happen, it would have already happened. Arrival two days next to the reaper artifact, Sovereign, Harbringer on the Collector Base, the countless encounters with Saren etc etc. All they should do is just put in a scene with Shepard and their LI on earth getting married and living happily after or whatever, it kills the series like Bioware wants, leaves room for dlc to mop things up, and doesn't leave you with an alive shepard sitting on the citadel doing nothing

I am with you on this one.
Indoctrination is a grasp at straws that many fans want to believe in the hope that its real and that the whole thing didn't happen. However Indoctrination itself brings about a whole slew of problems. 

The way I see it is that if Shepard is indoctrinated and hallaucinated that last piece of 15 mins craptastic hell, he is still on earth on London. Its the ONLY thing that makes any sense as long as we HAVE to take the current cut scenes. 
But that means that the crucible never fired.
Could not have since no one went up there to triger it.

But if you insist on Shepard being on the Citadel, refer to my post on page 231 :
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9992961/231
I would love to hear how you explain that part while keeping thru to events as we saw it, and keeping it "real" and not go even further into "space magic".

Oh yes, by "you" I do not mean you Dandynermite but those who are in general concensus that this Indoctrination theory is the way to go.

I rather they just admit that didn't think it through and gave us all utter BS and make this "bad" ending one of the BAD endings and work around and patch / dlc / expasion /whatever so that we get an ending where *our choices matter* and one that makes sense.

Nice to see somebody agrees. If Fallout New Vegas can give me a cut scene for every little action I make with a voice over to explain it with a splinter of EA's budget, then the only reason EA wouldn't is because they HATE their fans. 

The indoctrination theory is only around because of how poor the endings were. If you took them out and made some real ending where our choices effected it LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD, then it would all blow away I think, as looking at the game logically you can quite easily tell that Shepard was not indoctrinated. 

No you do not get the idea. If he is indoctrinated/hallausinating than nothing happend and the story could easely continue.
I don't say the IT is canon but it would if integrated good make a lot more sense to many thinks the catalyst said and how he come to be the little boy.
BTW. why is the Catalyst the little boy anyway?

@wsandista
The Reapers can indoctrinat you very quickly if they want but that would be very harmfull to the subject.

Indoctrination is not removable, once you are indoctrinated, you ARE indoctrinated. Passing out and dreaming all that up, hallucinating, and then being shaken awake by Ashley or whoever in the battlefield, that I can definately go with!

Why can't I just have a five minute clip of Shepard and Samantha with a house in Vancouver with a white picket fence and some kids running around and then it showing her as the councillar, or even coming in from SpaceAsda or whatever with the shopping? Then showing some short clips of Liara (rebuilding Thessia?) , Ashley (Admiral Williams maybe?) Tali (no Geth I can live with... I can comprimise Bioware...) , Miranda (finally have a child she wanted for so long?) , Grunt (just killing stuff), Jacob (with Dr. Cole?) Jack (watching her students graduate?) Samara (training some new Asari in the Code?) Zaeed (reclaiming the blue suns?) just some quick clips after the initial Shepard and LI scene and then suddenly you have a brilliant happy ending with one choice by Shepard. If you totally evil and controlling the reapers you die anyway, same with Synthesis, so they don't really matter.