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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#6201
Ophidios

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N-Seven wrote...

Here's the thing though; though much of you say has merit, I would say the majority of players really weren't terribly focused on the grand scheme of things.  The nature of life or the ultimate destiny of the galaxy or universe.  It's lofty stuff but really not what drew us into the series.

It was the interpersonal relationships and the smaller conflicts that were the  hooks.  The story of the salvation of life in the galaxy was just subtext for the stuff that we really found interesting: the details.

It's a lofty, grand ending...but ultimately it's so high-level that it became impersonal.  Tell me a story about some grand cosmic evolutionary plan and I will show some interest, but that will pass.  Maybe raise my eyebrows.  Tell me a great story about my friends and family and it will probably make me laugh or cry.   That's what the end(s) were missing.


I'll give you that, but the issue with having a game of such individual focus and choice is that we all have a different experience with it, I guess.

For me, as the situaiton became larger than the details, so did my reaction.  Especially so much in ME3, when the personal relationships become irrelevant when faced with the threat of total organic extinction.

I guess when it really boils down to it, I just plain don't have a problem with my Shep cutting herself out of the picture to save everyone else.  It was the nature of the suicide mission in ME2, and I feel it's the nature of the choie in ME3.  Just this time, Shep didn't get as lucky as she usually does.

#6202
The Chicken chaser

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I am glad to say that mass effect 3 definitely lived up to my expectations, bioware does do a fantastic job (been a fan since baldurs gate/planescape to be honest xD)! And the game for me was very special, but for me my favourite part would have been coming back to london - it was pretty emotional for me (and i'm english to so it got me hating the reapers more xD).

The game went downhill after shepard got lifted up into the citadel's strange attic though because it just seemed strange to me and i'm still trying to make sense of it :(. Like why was the reaper mind/catalyst or whatever a kid, why did he want shepard to decide on what to do with the reapers when he was like the overmind or something, why couldnt he tell the reapers to move their asses away and stop killing everyone and why couldn't it just have ended without a wierd lift bringing shepard up to the top floor and the reapers just died and everyone lived happily ever after except if the military effectiveness sucked in which case "earth gets mullered shepard epic fail woops lol".

I'm sorry I loved the game and mass effect, but that ending was just eccentric in a bad way. Im not going to do anything rediculous over it like slice my wrist with depression though xD, i still love the game and the series but I didnt think that ending was awesome at all. I'm sorry, I know you guys were trying to be original with it and I can admire that, but sometimes you just gotta think is something masterfully original or is it just a wack failure :P. Anyway, i really hope this isn't the end of the mass effect franchise either way - all good except the ending :').

Modifié par The Chicken chaser, 18 mars 2012 - 09:08 .


#6203
Omnike

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Ophidios wrote...

N-Seven wrote...

Here's the thing though; though much of you say has merit, I would say the majority of players really weren't terribly focused on the grand scheme of things.  The nature of life or the ultimate destiny of the galaxy or universe.  It's lofty stuff but really not what drew us into the series.

It was the interpersonal relationships and the smaller conflicts that were the  hooks.  The story of the salvation of life in the galaxy was just subtext for the stuff that we really found interesting: the details.

It's a lofty, grand ending...but ultimately it's so high-level that it became impersonal.  Tell me a story about some grand cosmic evolutionary plan and I will show some interest, but that will pass.  Maybe raise my eyebrows.  Tell me a great story about my friends and family and it will probably make me laugh or cry.   That's what the end(s) were missing.


I'll give you that, but the issue with having a game of such individual focus and choice is that we all have a different experience with it, I guess.

For me, as the situaiton became larger than the details, so did my reaction.  Especially so much in ME3, when the personal relationships become irrelevant when faced with the threat of total organic extinction.

I guess when it really boils down to it, I just plain don't have a problem with my Shep cutting herself out of the picture to save everyone else.  It was the nature of the suicide mission in ME2, and I feel it's the nature of the choie in ME3.  Just this time, Shep didn't get as lucky as she usually does.


So all of your interest in your crewmates and your LI are gone?

#6204
Ophidios

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BWGungan wrote...

The synthesis ending isn't even the one that requires the most EMS.  You only need like 3000 for that.

It also wasn't poetic or beautiful.  It was lazy and poisonous.


2800, actually.  The only thing that changes by having more EMS after that is whether or not Shep gets a waking breath.  The choices remain the same.  Synthesis is the last unlocked choice.

#6205
Whailor

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There is no best part to ME3.

Mass Effect 1 was a good start to the trilogy. Introduced the story, worlds, lore and it was new and different and interesting at that. Sure, some game mechanics were pretty annoying, like driving Mako around the planets (was fun the first 2 missions but after that, sheesh...). Main thing was, players were making choices along the way which all meant something in the end. How you handled things, the missions, both big in story sense and small ones, they all added up in the end. And they shaped the end. Granted, the amount of choices wasn't that big yet but still, the players were building the result.

Then came ME2 and that was even better. Started off with a shock of seeing Normandy getting blown to pieces and Shepard dieing, but story soon evolved further and things moved on. Shepard was back and the Reaper cronies needed some kicking. This time things were even better, there were much more choices then in ME1 but they mattered even more. Many new chars, new locations, new ways of handling them. Many results which came over from ME1, some small, some bigger and which also in the end added to the final. In ME2 players really built the story from ground up, every action they did - or did not do - had a consequence at the end, had a result. One could play faster through the game and not bother with side stories and that had a result at the end. Another could meticulously follow every bit of data, every single mission and that again had a result at the end. Even the end had several stages where you had to make choices and again, those choices also meant a lot. Basically, as I said already, in ME2 the story was built from ground up by the player and everything reflected it, it was simply great. And game mechanics were also better. Combat was improved, new gear was added, like heavy weapons, more weapon options, customization of gear and so on. Everything what ME2 did was better. Even resource gathering was better then it was in ME1, not ideal but still better. So ME2 did everything right.

And then ME3 came out. Started off nicely again, with the Reaper attack and all. It was nice seeing the old friends from ME1 and some from ME2 back in action again, but right away things got annoying too. First, the heavy weapons were suddenly gone. They could only be used temporarily, they were randomly lying around in the world... So a good thing from ME2 was taken away in ME3, messed up. First negative impression. Then players started to also meet the crew members from ME2 and discovered that they were turned into trivial, useless chars. It's as if Bioware just wanted to do away with them. They didn't say much, or they were killed pretty fast, or they were a very little part of the game. Such a letdown, and another negative impression. Dialogue between current crew members is like some random sideliner talk, no immersivness at all. Only occasionally the dialogue with them was like "in the old days", where you could choose your responses. Basically totally dumbed down. Yet another negative impression. Relationships between the chars.. Makes one wonder what was the point of following the relationship with several chars since ME1. Ashley Williams was pretty useless, first appeared at the start of the game, then soon was gone for a while and when finally joined up, was pretty much pointless person. If you followed a relationship from ME2 then that seemed totally hopeless. Another negative impression. I have not yet played the saves where my char had a relationship with Miranda Lawson but seeing as she only appeared barely few times during the whole  game, it seems to have even less point then Ashley Williams. Chalk up yet another negative impression. Relationship with Jack? She's yet another "cameo appearance person", so pointless again. Another negative impression. Tali'Zorah - can't say yet as I have not tried yet the saves with her, but she also appears pretty late in the game, it seems to be just as useless as Ashley Williams again. Another negative impression. Only one who had some integrity seemed to be Liara T'Soni, mostly as she's with the main char since the start. So all the talk by Bioware how "past relationships matter and how they will evolve in ME3" is completely pointless, it all is weakest and most pointless in ME3, almost a complete waste of time for anyone who thought that there will be more to it, or that these will be more involved.

So the game continues, delivering one disappointment after another. At the same time there are at least some good things too, for example seeing EDI advance into more sophisticared AI and pretty much into one of most advanced AI, who actually understands and has knowledge of organic. EDI seemed to become pretty much the vanguard of the real AI which would live together with organic life, understand organic life and at the same time, organics would also see EDI as equal and understand EDI and associate with her. Then all these historic moments, like curing of the genophage, uniting the krogan and turians, ending the quarian and geth war and laying the groundwork for their co-existence. There is all of this traveling around the Galaxy, building relations, gathering resources and allies, uniting the whole Galaxy to work together on the common goal, it almost feels like in ME2. You know, making the choices which in the end bring the best result. There is again the choice to not follow all these sidelines and move on with the main event, but there is also the choice to pay attention to every details, to get the seemingly best end result. Then you get to the end, play through it and realize that you haven't seen anything THAT BAD in such a long time, if ever. Anything you did, everything you did over the course of three games and several years matters nothing at the end. You pretty much get no choices whatsoever at the end. Doesn't matter how hard you worked over the course of several years and three games, none of that is considered at the end, none of that matters. There is absolutely no point whatsoever to anything done in all of the games before ME3. May as well just launch it, do the basic stuff and then finish it, the end is EXACTLY the same.

And your choices in ME3? Remember I mentioned how it was fun to see EDI evolve? Pointless, two choices out of the three simply eliminate all that work. Remember I mentioned ending the war between the quarians and the geth and laying the groundwork to the new union? Pointless, two choices out of the three simply eliminate it all, completely. And so on, and so on. And all of your work on your Shepard, making him stronger personally but also through his friends and allies is also pointless, because pretty much every choice simply kills him off. I just went through it and then was just sitting behind my PC and thinking: all these years, all these games, all this work and time what I put to meticulously following every single bit of info, doing everything I could do, making the right choices, preparing like never before, working in a game like never before and it all came down to this nonsense? And then you read some notes from the game producer telling how he is proud of what was done? Proud for ruining the game and basically ensuring that I will not play it again, will not buy anything related to it again? Proud for wasting all the effort over all these years, through all of these games? There is nothing to be proud of, you ruined what could have been one of the best and most "epic" titles out there by showing that the effort and loyalty of your customers over all these years and games mean nothing in the end.

And mechanics.. Cruising around with Mako was annoying in the end. Scanning planets was less annoying but still not the best. But the scanning in ME3 was totally dumbed down, silly. And multiplayer? Sure, it's a fun thing but actually forcing that to players is bad. Making it so that unless the player spends time in multiplayer, their single player game doesn't advance past a certain point is just rude. It's like spitting in the face and saying "Ha ha, don't care how much you work on all of this, if you don't do it the way we want you to do it, nothing will matter in the end!" Multiplayer could have been something which added bonuses to the single player game, instead of being something what had to be done in order to also advance some aspects of the single player game. Very annoying, very rude and very disappointing.

All in all, the quality of Bioware games is falling. Last titles have all been weak and incomplete (do I need to point out Dragon Age 2 for example?) and sadly ME3 faced the same fate. It had some new features which were better then in previous games, it had some new things. But it also removed the good existing things or made them totally trivial and pointless. And the game and story itself - was nice to a certain point, things seemed to go nicely up the hill, it felt interesting for a while. Until the end came. That was not a downhill path there, that was a fall into bloody endless chasm. You have nothing to be proud of Bioware, you ruined a good game.

#6206
jeweledleah

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Ophidios wrote...

dr0g4n wrote...

Ophidios wrote...

I know I'm in the minority here, but I just need to put this out there:

I absolutely love the ending to Mass Effect 3. Maybe I'm biased because I had my EMS high enough, so I was able to choose synthesis (which is, in my personal opinion, the optimum ending). I've seen so many people suggest that the destruction ending is the "proper" ending, because it is the only ending in which Shepard is presumed to be alive. While it remains true that Shepard is still alive, it is also the selfish choice - leaving the destiny of the entire galaxy hinging upon whether or not your own selfish attachment plays a bigger part is dirty pool, at best.
...


at least someone has the brains to realise the value of the endings

I don't understand why everyone is complaining about the endings, I chose the synth ending and I loved it, it was an awesome conclusion to an awesome ending. To me it just all made sense in the end. Granted there are some logical flaws with the companions being on earth and then on the normandy and all that jazz but no game is ever perfect, there are always flaws to every story and if you want to start nitpicking, be my guest.

all in all I just want to thank bioware for giving me and everyone else this great experience and for making (some of) us understand that Shepard does not need to survive to have a happy ending, he always said that he would reach his goal no matter the cost and in the end he paid it and I think he was glad to,
now he's sitting in that bar up in heaven looking down on Garrus because he said he would


Thanks for noticing - I was starting to think everyone was TL;DR-ing over my post, and nerdraging rather than thinking.

Most (not all) of the angry ending comments I have read, here or on other sites, are worded in a way that it seems the player missed the specific issue behind the choice.  Which, granted, could be attributed to a failure on BioWare's part in some way.  After all, if your audience misses the point of your artwork, is it the fault of the audience for not "getting it", or is it the fault of the artist for not conveying it?

In either case, I think the ending is fantastic just the way it is.


personaly - I just disagree with your conclusions, especialy the "selfish" part.

here's why I don't like Synthesis ending.

1.  it removes the choice from the rest of the galaxy on whether they want to be part synthetic or not.  I cannot see my Shepard as being so presuptious as to just decide for everyone.
2. it doesn't guarantee peace in any way, unless it involves brain washing, in which case, i find it completely unethical.  sure, there will be no more wars between organics and synthetics, since we'd all be homogenized.  but it doesn't mean there won't be wars.
3. collectors, working for the reapers went through countless sentient speciments from variety of species, just to figure out best building material for their latest reaper.  do you remember how many bodies were laying discarded in collector base... and on the citadel?  failed experiments...  how can we possibly guarantee that the crusible will be able to convert the DNA without much murder and distraction because it didn't have enough information on every species and so it messed up?
4. relays are still destroyed and galactic civilization as still scattered.


lastly.  enough with being all dismissive of people who actualy want their Shepards to survive.  enough.  there's nothing inherently wrong with it.  there's nothing inferior about wanting it.  and there's definitely nothing wrong with looking over our options, analyzing them and rebeling against forced non choice.

as for personal relationships?  remember what Mordin says before suicide mission?  about contacting his favorite nephew.  HE has the right idea.  personal relationships keep us humble.  they keep us human.  they give us a will to fight, a desire to win.  they put things in perspective. 

even in ME3.  there's a conversation you can have with Garrus, talking about harsh decisions, deciding on a grand scale who lives and who dies, reducing people to numbers.  paragon response to that is my favorite.  if we reduce the fight to mere numbers, we are no better then the reapers.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 18 mars 2012 - 09:12 .


#6207
Geirig

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Important to note that the biggest reason for everyone being so dissatisfied is the lack of choice in the ending and the seeming insignificance of the choices we made such as saving the krogan or forging peace between the quarians and the geth. These choices only effect the fleet size whcih in turn only influences whether or not Shepard lives or if the earth is destroyed? After everything we have done in the past for Shepard to reach the end and suddenly take such a passive role with so much effort ultimately being mostly fruitless is what is really irritating us all.

That said, up until this moment. It has been one hellishly awesome ride. I am still going to play through it again. I would like an epilogue DLC or something where our choices in the past are finally reflected in the story somehow. Just give us some dirt to fill in the plot holes, Bioware!

#6208
BWGungan

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Ophidios wrote...

N-Seven wrote...

Here's the thing though; though much of you say has merit, I would say the majority of players really weren't terribly focused on the grand scheme of things.  The nature of life or the ultimate destiny of the galaxy or universe.  It's lofty stuff but really not what drew us into the series.

It was the interpersonal relationships and the smaller conflicts that were the  hooks.  The story of the salvation of life in the galaxy was just subtext for the stuff that we really found interesting: the details.

It's a lofty, grand ending...but ultimately it's so high-level that it became impersonal.  Tell me a story about some grand cosmic evolutionary plan and I will show some interest, but that will pass.  Maybe raise my eyebrows.  Tell me a great story about my friends and family and it will probably make me laugh or cry.   That's what the end(s) were missing.


I'll give you that, but the issue with having a game of such individual focus and choice is that we all have a different experience with it, I guess.

For me, as the situaiton became larger than the details, so did my reaction.  Especially so much in ME3, when the personal relationships become irrelevant when faced with the threat of total organic extinction.

I guess when it really boils down to it, I just plain don't have a problem with my Shep cutting herself out of the picture to save everyone else.  It was the nature of the suicide mission in ME2, and I feel it's the nature of the choie in ME3.  Just this time, Shep didn't get as lucky as she usually does.


The personal relationships never become irrelevant.  Even when confronted by that stupid colour choice I always considered my crew and the fleet first.  Then I wondered why these are the only options.  They don't sound like anything I would do.  In the end it doesn't matter what you pick because everyone starves to death anyways.

Modifié par BWGungan, 18 mars 2012 - 09:13 .


#6209
zico291

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Can we have a ending where Shepards is reunited with his LI.

#6210
Ophidios

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Omnike wrote...

So all of your interest in your crewmates and your LI are gone?


Of course not; but the sacrifice is bigger than my wants and needs.  What I ultimately wanted, as a player controlling my Shep avatar, is to see galactic peace and harmony.  To see all life forms brought above the mundane and seen as an equal, divine creature.

To see the end of the galactic cycle.  That was the point of the entire series.  If the purpose of everything I did was to develop interpersonal relationships and have awkward sex that looks like mailboxes banging together, I would've played The Sims.  Regardless of the personal relationships developed (which gave value to the victories and losses), the ultimate goal since booting up ME1 back in November '07 was simple:  Stop the Reapers.  My Shep will do whatever it takes to accomplish that goal, like good soldiers should.

I personally feel (and I'm NOT criticizing others for feeling different) that if I focused more on the personal relationships and the people during the final decision, when everything was riding on the line, then I would be making the selfish choices that I described in my original post, and just continuing the live in the mundane and prove that I, and humanity as well, is not ready to leave the extinction cycle.

The idea here is demonstrating to a force greater than us, that we are more than they think we are, and we are ready for a place in a greater sense of exitence.

The theme running through the entirety of Mass Effect 1 was of humans being treated like underdogs by the galaxy.  The other races thought we were scum and the Council didn't trust us.  We had to prove to them that we were ready to take our place.

This overarcing theme, to me, is so much more colossal than which alien I let get my knickers warm.  Just my two cents.

#6211
Geirig

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Didn't the Quarians bring their live ships to the final battle, so they would actually have access to food?

#6212
Omnike

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Whailor wrote...
And then ME3 came out. Started off nicely again, with the Reaper attack and all. It was nice seeing the old friends from ME1 and some from ME2 back in action again, but right away things got annoying too. First, the heavy weapons were suddenly gone. They could only be used temporarily, they were randomly lying around in the world... So a good thing from ME2 was taken away in ME3, messed up. First negative impression. Then players started to also meet the crew members from ME2 and discovered that they were turned into trivial, useless chars. It's as if Bioware just wanted to do away with them. They didn't say much, or they were killed pretty fast, or they were a very little part of the game. Such a letdown, and another negative impression. Dialogue between current crew members is like some random sideliner talk, no immersivness at all. Only occasionally the dialogue with them was like "in the old days", where you could choose your responses. Basically totally dumbed down. Yet another negative impression. Relationships between the chars.. Makes one wonder what was the point of following the relationship with several chars since ME1. Ashley Williams was pretty useless, first appeared at the start of the game, then soon was gone for a while and when finally joined up, was pretty much pointless person. If you followed a relationship from ME2 then that seemed totally hopeless. Another negative impression. I have not yet played the saves where my char had a relationship with Miranda Lawson but seeing as she only appeared barely few times during the whole  game, it seems to have even less point then Ashley Williams. Chalk up yet another negative impression. Relationship with Jack? She's yet another "cameo appearance person", so pointless again. Another negative impression. Tali'Zorah - can't say yet as I have not tried yet the saves with her, but she also appears pretty late in the game, it seems to be just as useless as Ashley Williams again. Another negative impression. Only one who had some integrity seemed to be Liara T'Soni, mostly as she's with the main char since the start. So all the talk by Bioware how "past relationships matter and how they will evolve in ME3" is completely pointless, it all is weakest and most pointless in ME3, almost a complete waste of time for anyone who thought that there will be more to it, or that these will be more involved.


We were all let down, but I think some of your reasons are trivial. No heavy weapons? You can get over that, they were still in the game and they didn't make the game. Living without them is not a problem. The characters from ME2 being useless? Hardly. Thane saves the Salarian council member. Mordin cures the genophage. Miranda helps you find Cerberus. Hardly minor roles. Tali coming in late? Now you're reaching for straws. The conversations with crew mates, though they had no dialogue wheel, made them seem more real. They gave their thoughts, and that's all you had to know. The fact that they talk to each other makes them seem much more real. I suppose it boils down to what your view of a "pointless character" is. Mine seems substantially different.

#6213
Ophidios

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jeweledleah wrote...

lastly.  enough with being all dismissive of people who actualy want their Shepards to survive.  enough.  there's nothing inherently wrong with it.  there's nothing inferior about wanting it.  and there's definitely nothing wrong with looking over our options, analyzing them and rebeling against forced non choice.

I'm not being dismissive, I'm sharing my opinion.  Isn't that the point of the forum?

If I had realized I wasn't allowed to post unless I agreed with everyone, I would've gone elsewhere.  Thanks for policing my feelings, I appreciate the heads up!

I'm not trying to tell anyone they're wrong for feeling a certain way.  I'm rationalizing my feelings toward the ending, my Shepard's personal experiences, and how I, as a player, digested the events that took place.

TL;DR - umadbro?

#6214
balance5050

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Again, indoctrination will SAVE THIS SERIES.

#6215
Omnike

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Ophidios wrote...

Omnike wrote...

So all of your interest in your crewmates and your LI are gone?


Of course not; but the sacrifice is bigger than my wants and needs.  What I ultimately wanted, as a player controlling my Shep avatar, is to see galactic peace and harmony.  To see all life forms brought above the mundane and seen as an equal, divine creature.

To see the end of the galactic cycle.  That was the point of the entire series.  If the purpose of everything I did was to develop interpersonal relationships and have awkward sex that looks like mailboxes banging together, I would've played The Sims.  Regardless of the personal relationships developed (which gave value to the victories and losses), the ultimate goal since booting up ME1 back in November '07 was simple:  Stop the Reapers.  My Shep will do whatever it takes to accomplish that goal, like good soldiers should.

I personally feel (and I'm NOT criticizing others for feeling different) that if I focused more on the personal relationships and the people during the final decision, when everything was riding on the line, then I would be making the selfish choices that I described in my original post, and just continuing the live in the mundane and prove that I, and humanity as well, is not ready to leave the extinction cycle.

The idea here is demonstrating to a force greater than us, that we are more than they think we are, and we are ready for a place in a greater sense of exitence.

The theme running through the entirety of Mass Effect 1 was of humans being treated like underdogs by the galaxy.  The other races thought we were scum and the Council didn't trust us.  We had to prove to them that we were ready to take our place.

This overarcing theme, to me, is so much more colossal than which alien I let get my knickers warm.  Just my two cents.


And I can respect that. A lot of us may have been hooked for different reasons. You were hooked on the grand scale of everything, and that's as good a reason as any other. But for those that were hooked in by the smaller details, like the more human aspect of the relationships between Shepard, his crewmates, and his crewmates relationship with each other, the end was a pretty big let down. Like many before me, we don't demand that everything be sunshine and daisies, but at least give us some closure to the characters we grown to love and adore.

#6216
MelinaDrop

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RedrDog 2 wrote...

HALO_Project wrote...

Redban103 wrote...

 

Arivle wrote...
Well, they better should. Because otherwise it will hurt their planned DLC sales considerably. Unless there is a DLC with better ending (I don't care if payed or not) I'm not going to buy any other ME3 DLCs and I think I'm not the only one. Not as some kind of "revolt" but it simply gives me no joy to live some "earlier" Shepard story if I "know" how horribly she ends. It simply ruins my dreams and I have no joy from playing such DLCs and living through their stories then.

 

Yeah really, if people don't even feel like replaying the game even once more after the ending spoiled it, why would they be inclined to play DLC when they know where it will lead? Having that bad ending easily killed most of the profit they would make off DLC. Fixing up an ending should be top priority since it affects if people will continue playing and buying their content and products.


Agreed. I was really looking forward to playing other Shepards to see how things would go with the differences in the choices I made in the other games leading up to. Now I just can't do it. I can't bring myself to do it again, not knowing those endings are what is waiting for me.


Couldn't agree more, the thing I was most looking forward to was playing all the games again to see what would happan with different choices, Now I can't really even force Myself to care about doing the side missions in just the 3rd one let alone the first two knowing now how it all ends. Its so sad to see this happan to Mass Effect.



/signed
I have played ME1 two and ME2 six times with all avaiable DLCs .
But the ending of ME3 is so hopeless, i have no motivation to play it again or buy a DLC.

#6217
Ophidios

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That's cool too. But drilling back to the point of my original post, I just wanted to throw it out there that not everyone hated the ending, and if they're planning on changing **** up, make it an optional change for those of us that liked things the way they are.

It's all good, we are all here because we all care very much for our FemSheps and BroSheps. We can all get along.

#6218
Blc949

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Hi all, I'm from the near future. My favorite part where was where we found out these endings weren't the real endings.

#6219
monsoontide

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AS I am sure many of you have said (seriously 248 pages if just too much to read through - I have other things to do with My time now I have completed ME3) - Ultimately, whether you liked, tolerated or hated the ending of Mass Effect 3... the variation of outcomes was too narrow... there is no outcome where the Reapers "win" so to speak and all high level organic civilizations are destroyed, there is no outcome where after all that hard grind you did doing side quests and playing multi-player and finding every single war asset that really makes a lick of difference (other than a couple of quick shots of everything on earth being incinerated if you didn't collect enough).
There are no outcome where members of your team are killed because of actions you did or didn't do.
Will Bioware retcon the ending?
NO.
I fully expect that "when enough people have finished playing ME3" that we will get some very big excuses for the decisions made for the ending, which carefully avoid certain behind the scenes decisions - such as why the Prothean DLC became DLC instead of being part of the main game. EA's influence on crow-baring in a multi-player element and how those resources could have been better used elsewhere in the production of the game.
All you have to do is look around at the development of other AAA titles to see what kind of pressure the publishers exert over the development houses.
LA Noire? Call Of Duty? Knight Of The Old Republic 2.

Personally I feel Mass Effect 3 was a little rushed out and could have done at least another 3 months in the cooker, (There's a heck of a lot of bugs in there. The PC version needs to have more customization options and be less consoley - the ONE BUTTON to rule them all needed to be revised. The multi-player could do with more variation and relevance - I thinking MP zero g space battle levels and capturing frigates and equipment to add to the main game and stuff.)

People seem to be pinning their hopes on some sort of incredible DLC. As I mentioned before, consider the DLC for ME2. It was mostly solid, but certainly I wouldn't consider any of it amazing enough to have drastically changed ME2.
BIOWARE would REALLY have to knock it out of the park with any DLC for fans to even be bothered with it.

I hope they can, but will they is the question.

#6220
jeweledleah

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Ophidios wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

lastly.  enough with being all dismissive of people who actualy want their Shepards to survive.  enough.  there's nothing inherently wrong with it.  there's nothing inferior about wanting it.  and there's definitely nothing wrong with looking over our options, analyzing them and rebeling against forced non choice.

I'm not being dismissive, I'm sharing my opinion.  Isn't that the point of the forum?

If I had realized I wasn't allowed to post unless I agreed with everyone, I would've gone elsewhere.  Thanks for policing my feelings, I appreciate the heads up!

I'm not trying to tell anyone they're wrong for feeling a certain way.  I'm rationalizing my feelings toward the ending, my Shepard's personal experiences, and how I, as a player, digested the events that took place.

TL;DR - umadbro?


and I quote

all in all I just want to thank bioware for giving me and everyone else
this great experience and for making (some of) us understand that
Shepard does not need to survive to have a happy ending

  the condescention in this statement is palpable.  not to mention "umad bro"

you can feel whichever way you want.  its your perrogative.  and its our perrogative to demostrate why this kind of thinking doesn't work for quite a few of is.

I'm sorry, but I see the overreaching theme of the series as triumph in diversity, finding ways to coexist with our differences intact.  and that theme continues to run through ME3.  Javiks comments on why this cycle has a chance at defeating the reapers, and why his homogenized cycle failed.  EDI's self actualization.  peace between Geth and quarians, peace between Krogan and Turians, continuing focus on individual stories and not just squadmates, but people we see on a Citadel.  we are given names.  we are given their life stories.  we are given a view of the war that is not that of the detached observer, we feel it viceraly.  every loss.  every triumph.  impersonal homogenization goes against everything the series stand for.

I don't see Synthesis as beautiful.  I see it as a betrayal.  even if we ignore multitude of plot holes and accept space magic - it almost feels like you are accepting the synthesis.. because its the final solution.  the last one to be unlocked.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 18 mars 2012 - 09:33 .


#6221
The Final Few

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If you were truly listening you would have said something that isn't just a vague suggestion by now. How difficult is knowing that the majority of your fan base is disappointed in your creation? I still like Mass Effect though.

#6222
Deflagratio

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monsoontide wrote...

People seem to be pinning their hopes on some sort of incredible DLC. As I mentioned before, consider the DLC for ME2. It was mostly solid, but certainly I wouldn't consider any of it amazing enough to have drastically changed ME2.
BIOWARE would REALLY have to knock it out of the park with any DLC for fans to even be bothered with it.

I hope they can, but will they is the question.


Mass Effect 2 didn't really need to be changed (Thermal Clip retardation notwithstanding), but that said, Overlord and Lair of the Shadow Broker weren't just amazing, they were unparalled in showing just how DLC can be more than just a gimmick to wring an extra 10 bucks out of people. Easily the best DLC since Undead Nightmare for Red Dead Redemption.

#6223
Ekebes

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I'd like to throw in something that I have not come across yet in this forum. Why, exactly, does earth get fried if your military strength is too low? In ME2 I could make sense of the connection between squad members not being fully commited to the cause and not making it out alive. But this connection here is absolutely random. Why would the number of ships orbiting earth change anything about the effect of the crucible on earth?

Modifié par Ekebes, 18 mars 2012 - 09:33 .


#6224
Ophidios

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jeweledleah wrote...

and I quote

all in all I just want to thank bioware for giving me and everyone else
this great experience and for making (some of) us understand that
Shepard does not need to survive to have a happy ending

  the condescention in this statement is overwhelming.

Uh, that's not my statement, so I guess I don't get what you're trying to prove.

Troll elsewhere.  Opinions will be different, it's all good.  ~250 pages makes it clear that, whether we liked or hated the ending, we all love ME.

If you're just going to tell other people why their feelings and opinions are wrong, then you're not going to get anywhere.  I realize that my feelings and opinions are not shared by everyone else, but they're mine; I'm not criticizing other people's directly, like you seem to be.

#6225
Omnike

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Ekebes wrote...

I'd like to throw in something that I have not come across yet in this forum. Why, exactly, does earth get fried if your military strength is too low? In ME2 I could make sense of the connection between squad members not being fully commited to the cause and not making it out alive. But this connection here is absolutely random. Why would the number of ships orbiting earth change anything about the effect of the crucible on earth?


Welcome aboard.