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[xScarecrowX]

I kinda hope that it isn't the indoctrination theory or the dream theory. Those are both to obvious!

**Oh, God! Top comment and no image! Ahhhh...*Awkward Dances*

Modifié par xScarecrowX, 19 mars 2012 - 02:48 .

[FellishBeast]

Still holding the line.

[Nostradamoose]

Bah, there Repost, My criticism: Mass effect 3 is great through and through as long as you don't watch anything after hearing that the crucible is NOT working...

So there you go

While I am one of those actually asking (politely) for a new ending, or at least fixing the one we currently have, I would like to simply state my own views referring to this. More and more am I seeing people asking for a "bright" ending with Shepard happy and living in Lalaland with his/her LI. I do not want that, it is not what I request, nor do I believe that the majority wishes for something like this.

Bluntly put, I do not care if you have to kill Shepard, destroy Earth or blow up the entire freaking galaxy for that matters. I want an ending that is coherent with the Mass Effect lore and previous experiences. If Bioware believes that Shepard has to die in a blaze of glory, kicking the Reapers in the balls while laughing at the face of death, I'll stand by that, as long as it makes sense.


Clearly put, I want a space battle with a Crucible acting like a super weapon that can shoot down Reapers, even those in other Systems, like it's been refered it is supposed to do (I can be quite lenient on the superweapon though). I don't care if the ending does not end the war between life in the Galaxy and the Reapers, for all I care, it could simply show that suddenly Humanity has managed to get an edge against this fabulous ennemy that is the Reaper Force (or that we failed for that matters). I simply don't care if it's an ending that shows that the war is not over yet, even if this does not mean any Mass Effect game set after this moment, I want it to make sense.


What I don't want is some bloody brat comming out of nowhere and acting like he is the king of the world and offering me nonsensical options. I want an ending that is coherent in its integrity, that leaves no room to second-guessing about what happens during it, that brings closure or that at least tells me what is happening right now. Because right now, not only is the ending incoherent, it looks like a patchwork of many pieces going from A to J while skipping B C F G and I along the way. I might exagerate slightly, but it is how it looks. What I just said here is my main gripe about this ending. I'm really sad to do the next comparison, but it remembers me this really wacky indian movie :
The mass effect ending simply reminds me how the damn thing goes without any transition from a Highway pursuit to a battle inside a building at around 1:50min (yes that is how the original movie does it). I mean, how did joker leave the system while it was clear that the crucible was going to work? Yes Hackett did advice his troops to pull back and regroup, but then we see the Crucible docking later on. Logic tells that ships would have assumed a really tight defensive position surrounding it, they certainly would never have left their doomsday weapon alone and told people to GTFO of the system.


TL:DR...But my one and only advice, Bioware, do not force yourself to make a happy ending if it has never been what you planned to do, but please, do make something coherent if you are to do something.


Also, I do feel it has not been said enough times, Mass Effect 3 is probably one of the greatest games to ever hit the shelves. Kudos to the team for that. I, personnaly, solely am displeased by the endings and I will still recommend the game for that. I told my friends that this was a 8/10 game but that the sole thing that forced me to cut 2 points back were the ending and a couple bugs, none too major. It really is this close to perfection.

My post got buried and hell, it belongs here

Modifié par Nostradamoose, 19 mars 2012 - 02:50 .

[FellishBeast]

[theoldludwigvan]

Great game until end. Choices with "Starkid" were not what unique endings should have meant. Crucible was a cop out.

Crucible should have been a powerful weapon, not a deus ex machina that will save the universe.

Then you could've won back Earth with a long, multifaceted battle, then ended the game.

THEN you could've released a bunch of DLC containing the campaigns in other systems, one by one liberating your allies' home worlds with your war assets and your powerful (but not silly) weapon, the crucible.

A thought anyway. You would make bank on the DLC and it would be directly main-story related.

[jeweledleah]

xScarecrowX wrote...

I kinda hope that it isn't the indoctrination theory or the dream theory. Those are both to obvious!

**Oh, God! Top comment and no image! Ahhhh...*Awkward Dances*

obvious is not a bad thing, you know.

part of the problem with current endings is that they come completely out of the left field and don't fit. atl east for most of us.

[foxthirteen]

Hello, Bioware. (sorry my english is bad)

Bioware, thanks for making this great game! I love every aspect of it, yes including the ending. My favourite parts on the ME3 game are geth-quarian part and the genophage curing part. This series is so EPIC and mindblowing and even more awesome than my favourite baldur's gate or NWN, IMHO.

I also like the ending, it makes me think deeply about the meaning of what this series is actually about, at least in my own interpretation. But seriously I admit the ending is pretty weird and ambigous.
Although I like it, seeing the majority of players complaining about it, I think bioware should at least give explanation or anything to them. Be it (free?) DLC or news. (though DLC or update might be more proper). Bioware, or at least ME shepard trilogy reputation might go down if this problem is still unclear.


(though I actually don't really mind if in the end bioware don't change a thing)

But once again, thanks again for making this great game! Salute!

[xScarecrowX]

jeweledleah wrote...

xScarecrowX wrote...

I kinda hope that it isn't the indoctrination theory or the dream theory. Those are both to obvious!

**Oh, God! Top comment and no image! Ahhhh...*Awkward Dances*

obvious is not a bad thing, you know.

part of the problem with current endings is that they come completely out of the left field and don't fit. atl east for most of us.

True, but I would feel cheated (Again) if they didn't work either of these theories into the entire ME3 story well enough.That's my opinion, of course.

[Apocaleepse360]

xScarecrowX wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

xScarecrowX wrote...

I kinda hope that it isn't the indoctrination theory or the dream theory. Those are both to obvious!

**Oh, God! Top comment and no image! Ahhhh...*Awkward Dances*

obvious is not a bad thing, you know.

part of the problem with current endings is that they come completely out of the left field and don't fit. atl east for most of us.

True, but I would feel cheated (Again) if they didn't work either of these theories into the entire ME3 story well enough.That's my opinion, of course.

As would I. For example, I'd be quite annoyed if I HAD to kill off EDI and the Geth (destruction) just to get a better ending. I'd feel just as bad, if not worse than the Reapers for single-handedly killing off all synthetic life in the galaxy. Not to mention that I'd essentially be backstabbing them.

I'd prefer the dream theory over the indoctrination one, though. At least then they can say it was all just a dream and the Mass Relays still exist

Modifié par Apocaleepse360, 19 mars 2012 - 03:02 .

[Woodstock-TC]

it was great, and i felt it living up to all expectations until the ending which was utter bs sorry.
i loved the me1 popcorn mainstream ending. glorious bright and shiny with the hero crumbling out of the dust. man i cant ever remember having been that satisfied in a comp game before
(ok leaving apart all Player Kills in Ultima Online maybe, but thats some time ago...)
all in all, even if it would have been bitter sweet, it should have been "my" moment not the moment of the writer, designer, whomever delivering a big illogical mess that insults my intellect.

and btw regarding the "art" proudness, let me tell you originating from an artists family (which can all be found on wiki btw) : even as stomping on your cake and watching the outcome will be considered by some as "art" and especially if you are the first to do it be received very well by the press (even if its sensless), it still doesnt means that
1) it will work with mainstream (before a collector gets interested prices get high it gets mainstream etc etc)
2) it will sell well
3) create happy faces (your customers came here to actually eat the cake after 100+ hours of prep)

-> thanks "the king is naked"

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 19 mars 2012 - 08:32 .

[Aromaci]

The ending represented nothing of the thematic philosophy of the series. The games have always been about choice and crafting your own story and the consequences (seen and unseen) of your choices. The ending of ME3 completely throws this out the window. You've spend three games creating a unique and detailed story and made decision like whether or not a species lives or dies. Then the last ten minutes of the game throws this all out and homogenizes it into ONE unimaginative ending. And it is one ending. There are three choices but all the outcomes are the same. Even though the VI tells you that each choices has it's consequences, you never see the consequences of your choice play-out so really there is only one ending.

What's the point having a game about choice and consequence and then have you make the ULTIMATE choice but then never deliver. For the past three games we have reaped what we've sown, but when it comes to the ending we are let off the hook. The ending made me feel like my choice didn't matter.

After such a well told story it makes no sense that the ending feels like something out of a B grade sci-fi game.

[XFemShepX]

Alert! Long post:

I agree with most of what's said here. The game in it's entirety is 95% brilliance. But the endings are terrible--like you guys took a break, slapped an intern in a chair with a notebook and said, "Here--write this ending. We're going to lunch.".

There are great moments in the game--Mordin's death took me by surprise, and was really heart wrenching. I think I knew as soon as he started to hum that he was a goner. I also liked how the Female Krogran played into the culture of the Krogan--I can really see them evolving socially as a race, playing a bigger part, having to learn manners to be involved in the galactic stage. I was never a fan of the quarians (dang Gypsies!), but when I found out they had used the Reaper War to attack the Geth and break sanctions, I was all--"You SONS-A-****ES!", and was actually kind of outraged. I actually contemplated letting them be exterminated by the Geth, if not for Tali. And killing Kai Leng= priceless. He was a good antagonist...and after I got that e-mail from him I was properly seething with anger. Also, the romances (I've actually only completed Kaidan's, so...) were done wonderfully this time around. Banter as a whole is better, and we see a more human side of Shepard...she cracks jokes for once, instead of always being the serious soldier.

The gravity of the situation, Earth, talking with your squadmates...all good and heavy, emotionally. When Kaidan breaks and says, "I can't lose you again", I FELT that. And I couldn't even imagine the story without Javik (DLC Prothean)--really, that scene with him and Liara after Thessia falls? Awesomeness to see her break like that. I can't imagine why he wasn't included properly in the game instead of made DLC.

But for all those awesome things, there are a few downfalls. And those few downfalls are MAJOR.

Emotionally, too forced sometimes.

I don't give a crap about that kid. I just don't. Give me a recurring nightmare about how I was forced to nuke Ashley. Give me a recurring nightmare about watching Saren blow his head off. Hell, give me a recurring nightmare about watching the Horizon colonists being turned into Reaper goo. That kid? Spoke a total of two sentences to him and saw him for thirty seconds. The inclusion of children in the series is welcome, but children do not automatically equal tugged heartstrings. There were a lot of forced emotion in scenes. Heck, I'm a Kaidan fangirl, but that first "pep talk" you give to an unconscious Kaidan in the hospital left me cringing in embarrassment for how corny it was.

And of course, the purpose of this conversation--the endings.

Jesus H. Christ, the endings.

The idea of them are not bad, but they are all 95% the same, to start off. I get the Control, Synthesize, or Destroy options. They seem logical. That is a total of 3 endings, not the numerous promised. And even so, the 3 "different" endings are so similar that it really only seems like there is one ending. Shepard dies in two, and we see her take a half breath in the 3rd. The fact that we are so railroaded into these endings makes all of our choices seem insignificant. After I beat the game, I kind of sat there in awe thinking, "Really? I mean, really?". How did my love interest, who I took with me down to earth, who ran with me toward the Citadel beam, end up on the ship with Joker? Why is Joker trying to escape? Why are they crash-landed on a random planet? My Shepard, the only person left on the Citadel, and Joker just races away to leave her there? What about all the talk with everyone about beach front property? What about Tali building a house on Rannoch? What's the point of a Turian-Krogran peace if they'll never encounter each other now with the Mass Relays destroyed?

What about the ENTIRE GALACTIC FLEET now stranded above Earth? That kind of seems like a biggie. Like a blatant variable that shouldn't have been overlooked.

What about the Geth, now all dead? Is EDI dead, if I picked the Destroy ending? In fact, the only reason I picked the Destroy ending was because I had surmised without totally spoiling myself that it was the only ending in which Shepard could live. I wasn't asking for rainbows and sunshine, marriage and babies....but maybe a kind-of happy ending where Humanity wasn't going to recover for centuries, but my Shep and Kaidan could finally rest and retire from the galactic stage together.

Jeez. Someone here quoted this from a UK review, and I couldn't agree more. Paraphrasing, it basically says that the game is wonderful, but the ending is SO awful that it makes the whole game nearly unplayable. Couldn't agree more.

Again, long post, sorry guys.

[AwefulShot]

jeweledleah wrote...

technology is NOT the enemy.  its an ally.

In which case why is everyone so worried about Iran developing nuclear weapons?

[NathanIles]

I feel like I have grown up with Bioware games and as such, I feel that I am (as many of you probably are) very familiar with how they tell and end a story. With that in mind, I didn't believe for a moment the story ended where it did.
Hold the line!

(first post, btw. be nice to the new guy.)

[Eclypsis2]

If you guys really are listening I hope you guys see this so that it brings some perspective to you. This is one of my previous posts copy pasted.   

Hey guys i posted this little thing in the indoctrination theory thread but I think this deserves its own thread. My friends and i came across this little video that I think everyone should watch. Is it a confirmation for the hallucination theory? and easter egg? or just a little troll attempt / bioware being lazy? No matter what it is, it definitely proves that the ending of mass effect 3 was not meant to be taken seriously.

 

This is the link for it and when you watch it be sure to pay attention to the Album's background, look familiar? Also look at the date the video was posted and look at the color changes of the background Red to Green to Blue. MOST IMPORTANTLY though read the LYRICS to the song. Odd ain't it? This video was posted on July 6 2011 yet seems to me like it was basically the script for the ending of ME3 .

also space magic 

[WatsonMJ]

Ash deck-surfing with a hangover was awesome enough; but James referencing it later while cooking juevos rancheros made the episode epic.

[SavvyToli]

The Indoctrination Theory is about Shepard being indoctrinated after Harbinger lands on Earth and the walk to the beam and the Citadel was all an attempt by Harbinger to finally be able to control him/her.

Capt. Anderson might represent Shepards good side and the Illusive man as the one favored in the dark side fighting over each other.

It may also be true that little TIMY (the boy who dies in the beginning and also reapers in Shepard's dreams) might also be a clue of indoctrination because nobody take notice of him when he boards the shuttle or even Anderson taking notice when he calls Shepard to the door. For TIMY to appear as the "Starchild" also further supports the theory that Harbinger is using that image of the child so that it can move Shepard to the right path of his own liking.

The "Starchild" smiles when you choose to control the Reapers assuming that your mind is now lost to the control of Harbinger.

If you chose to Destroy all Reapers and Synthetics, Shepard breathes at the end in the midst of concrete ruble, and the theory states that he/she has broken free of the indoctrination and that whole ending was a nightmare afterward.

I have personally made this profile just after i saw the ending because I just could't sleep anymore and decided to write all that frustration off. This indoctrination theory made me able to sleep again and am still holding onto this before the real truth comes out.

Check this vid out

Modifié par SavvyToli, 19 mars 2012 - 03:18 .

[JanakiLotus]

Honestly main thing I didn`t like, was being sold more content at the end.. That was just tacky.

[Blc949]

Something funny I was just thinking of. When my buddy finished it before, he brought up how the ending was meh and people wanted it changed. Originally I was like "F that, people just want Shepard to live" and he said "hmmm, you might want to finish it first" and I told him it couldn't be any worse than the original Japanese Dead or Alive movie. Oddly, it was damn near just like that. A stupid ending out of left field after a long serious movie that made no sense with the makers trying to defend it!

I urge you all to look up that movie and watch the ending. It was a serious dark movie, and then we saw that. I've never forgotten that ending/movie so the makers accomplished it being "a polarizing unforgettable ending", but also its a joke between me and my buddy. Never watched another movie by that guy.

[jeweledleah]

AwefulShot wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

technology is NOT the enemy.  its an ally.

In which case why is everyone so worried about Iran developing nuclear weapons?

because that would actualy make Iran someone to take seriously, someone we cannot just bully into submission anymore.  but does it make nuclear power the enemy?  or is it merely people's use of it?

in adition - relays are a transportation network.  even crucible doesn't turn them into weapons, merely energy conduits.  they are currently jointly controlled.  and if the war agaisnt reapers would have tought the galactic society anything, is that they are stronger when united, working towards a comon goal.  even while preserving the individuality of each culture.  and even before reaper war, galactic society somehow managed to mostly not slide into prothean like Tyrany. 

sure it wasn't perfect.  nothing ever is.  but how would lack of technology, make it any better?  technology doesn't change "human" nature.  stranding all those varied fleets inside a system that cannot possibly support them all (and that's assuming that shockwave from exploding relay didn't just destroy everything in its path) - that will most asuredly result in people doing terrible things to each other, in a name of survival.

like you know.  the Donner Party

Modifié par jeweledleah, 19 mars 2012 - 03:24 .

[TarielMaeda]

Replace the Daleks with Reapers and Rose with The Galaxy and you have my answer to the ending.

[XFemShepX]

xScarecrowX wrote...

I kinda hope that it isn't the indoctrination theory or the dream theory. Those are both to obvious!

Dream theory would be kind of dumb, IMO.

But I honestly expected that one of the endings to the series WOULD be indoctrination.  I mean, there's no reason to think that Shepard, having been around Reaper tech more than most, would NOT be indoctrinated.  They could've played this in so many ways--Shepard wondering if he's going crazy, fighting urges to backstab or kill allies...a play of his/her feat of iron will.

I'm surprised it wasn't addressed at all.  I'm also surprised that none of your allies, who have also been around Reaper stuff more often, weren't sleeper agents of the Reapers and fully indoctrinated.  I mean, Garrus was there in ME2 when you went INTO a Reaper.  It would've KILLED me to put him down, but I woul've fully understood if he was a Reaper agent.

It really was a lost moment, if you ask me.  Maybe they thought that they played that card already with the Arrival DLC.  <shrug>

[Steven Kroh]

JanakiLotus wrote...

Honestly main thing I didn`t like, was being sold more content at the end.. That was just tacky.

Indeed, that really pissed me off.

[SkullStrife]

Eclypsis2 wrote...

If you guys really are listening I hope you guys see this so that it brings some perspective to you. This is one of my previous posts copy pasted.   

Hey guys i posted this little thing in the indoctrination theory thread but I think this deserves its own thread. My friends and i came across this little video that I think everyone should watch. Is it a confirmation for the hallucination theory? and easter egg? or just a little troll attempt / bioware being lazy? No matter what it is, it definitely proves that the ending of mass effect 3 was not meant to be taken seriously.

 

This is the link for it and when you watch it be sure to pay attention to the Album's background, look familiar? Also look at the date the video was posted and look at the color changes of the background Red to Green to Blue. MOST IMPORTANTLY though read the LYRICS to the song. Odd ain't it? This video was posted on July 6 2011 yet seems to me like it was basically the script for the ending of ME3 .

also space magic 

your message to Bioware translates into..
Gotcha!!!!
xDDDD

[Rohirrim]

Chris Priestly wrote...



In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

Hey Chris and all, thought I undust my old account and post for the very first time.

I loved so many things about the Mass Effect trilogy that I find it impossible to narrow it down to a single favourite moment. The soundtrack when I open the galaxy map, the incredible voice acting throughout, the rich dialogues and characters, the discovery of the reapers, the fight against Saren, the assembly of my team in ME2, ... just the story as a whole - Mass Effect relieved Secret of Mana as my favourite video game of all time.

But in regards to ME3, some of the moments that stood out positively were:

- Javik. Simply brilliant. Got me goosebumps to uncover a Prothean. I was disappointed by his personality. My flawed perception of the protheans as this almost god-like race of wise beings was shattered. But when I say "disappointed", I mean from a game character point-of-view. I absolutely loved this revelation! Best DLC ever!

- Wrex' reaction to seeing Javik for the first time: "I sometimes wonder whether the Normandy is a warship or a travelling freak show!".

- Ending the war between the Geth and Quarians: Tali's reaction of envisioning her home on Rannoch was well done!

- Conrad Verner contributing 1 point to my war assets.

- Exploring the newly designed Normandy: I realised how attached I had become to the characters that used to live in certain parts of the ship. I further loved the honour roll and couldn't find myself walking past it without glancing at the names of Kaiden, Thane, Mordin and Legion.

- Mordin's sacrifice. I wanted to stop him but knew that I couldn't. Having the option to sabotage the cure or openly discuss the proposition with Wrex was an example why Mass Effect is such a great game.

- Having some interaction with all of my squadmates of ME2.

- All the exploration adventures. I was never a huge fan of the combat in Mass Effect but loved to explore the ancient city on Tuchanka, the deserted facility of Sanctuary, Eden Prime and similarly structured parts of missions.

- Even side quests are well narrated in ME3 - this may be the biggest improvement to me over the original Mass Effect.

- Random dialogues between squad mates and the fact that they differed in their location between missions. My favourite was possible the boasting contest between Vega and Garrus. 

- Shooting stuff with Garrus on the top of the presidium.

- The anticipation of a great epilogue in the style of Dragon Age.

- The anticipation of the real ending of Mass Effect 3.

In regards to the current ending, I simply refuse to believe that it will stand as it is. I want to know what happened after Harbinger's laser hit and Shepard woke up in the rubble. At the moment, I am looking forward to DLC. There is room on my ship in the places left by Jack and Thane. And, of course, I am awaiting the closure to the series.

If the finale of the epic sci-fi saga is really intended the way it is, it will have forever tainted my experience with Mass Effect,. The appearance of that ghostly child is too ridiculous to comment on. The plotholes are greater than those torn into the face of the Milky Way by the explosion of the mass relays. The absence of diversity in the endings is unaccaptable. The lack of Shepard's resistence when faced with the red/blue/green option staggering. The missing epilogue could be tolerated in a movie but not a video game in which players have invested the equivalent of around 100 movies.