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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#6901
Iconoclaste

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With a fanbase composed of teenagers, young adults and older people, how could Bioware ever expect to please everyone, with such "philosophical" implications from these so-called "bad endings"? Most players want a feeling that they "win", even in the small battles all along the game. I've been gaming since the late 80's, all kinds of games, I'm a hardened first-person shooters addict, I love the immersion of role-playing games, I even played Dungeons & Dragons before and after the advent of personal computers, with dices and character sheets, and went to live events in the real world, fighting with foam swords and armors, happily sleeping in rain-soaked tents knowing that tomorrow will be the same kind of fun. I have seen gaming evolve from poor graphics with a variation from worst to best content, to today's high realism and orchestral sound, but the same "worst to best content". I've seen "tricks" pulled out from game producer's hats been litterally and shamelessly "copied" in other games, like the almost universal ripping-off of all the inventory in the middle of the game, to have the player go through a level half-naked until he grabs all of his weapon's back.

When we were playing the good old Dungeons & Dragons dice & paper game, we sometimes had to face a Dungeon Master whose usual "Endgame" was to throw the party in hell or unavoidable destruction of all characters, after a few weeks of having raised these characters from novice to pros, meaning that in subsequent games, we just could not use these characters anymore. We were usually furious after that, and of course the Dungeon Master was not called upon for a while to have us be his "toys" one more time. Even with the best arguments he would submit to us after such a bad "endgame" choice, he would not walk away with it to do it again. But we were still friends, at least.

I used to prefer rewarding arcade-like games to the ones that always have you on the brink of death at all moments, where the "last savegame" loading capacity of the computer was more sollicited than the player's interest to find any kind of strategy to avoid death. Thus the popularity of open choices, role-playing and character building, since you really get the feeling that, at some point, things will go easier and the player will finally have a chance to focus mainly on the story, and a little less on the key combinations. But that implies that the game has content regarding this aspect, not only thousands of enemies to shoot endlessly at.

Amidst all these modern games I have seen in the last decade, the Mass Effect series was able to reach both objectives, in a quite balanced fashion, to give us action and story with a sense of freedom to choose the outcome. Even if we all know that these "different outcome possibilities" are all fixed in the gamecode and, being so, not really giving a chance to be surprised from different playthroughs, we at least expect to see the same game from a different perspective if we approach it from radically different playing styles (or "characters"). Since the series is putting lots of emphasis on the characters and personalities, and add to this the possibility of "love interests" along the way, the players can really feel an emotional "hook" to these games, understandably. Then, like all things, comes the "end of the game", always too soon, always incomplete, always (a bit or more) frustrating.

I found Mass Effect 3 to be the shortest of all three titles, having completed it in less than a week (with all sidequests), playing in the evening after my work and the kids put to sleep. I was a bit sad to sense the rush to "finish things" all along. Even the sidequests did not benefit the short cutscenes with the "quest givers" that we had in the other 2 games, which makes them kind of minimalistic, given that the planet scanning interface was also "simplified" and made most of these quests a simple click and grab thing, and back to the main screen. I almost feel that, despite what has been promoted, the fact that Bioware gave in so generously to the "player's feedback" has resulted in an almost predictable gameflow, with almost predictable encounters and outcomes. I was not even surprised by the endings, and maybe that is why I felt deception after I closed the game : I felt on a "ride to the end" all along, with false choices that almost evenly resulted in a roadside cutscene while walking to the final meeting, plus an adjustment of the difficulty level of the last fights, nothing more.

I expected a lot from this game, after having been completely grabbed by the previous ones, and I have been anxious to get this one since they announced a release date (and another, and...). But as soon as I started playing, I felt compelled to go forward and to do it fast. There are no real "breaks" in the game, the Citadel's interludes were but a walkaround to finish errands and try to get new ones, and hop back on the normandy to close another brief chapter. I felt good at resolving Tuchanka and the Quarian / Geth problems, but other than that, and given a few heartbreaking casualties, I completed the game asking myself : was that REALLY fun, or did I just spend the last week putting numbers at the end of a few known equations?

Of course, the "themes" are of sadness, grief, destruction and the likes. And I think that it looks like a good support for this "endoctrination theory", since endoctrination infuses its victims with feelings of depression and hopelessness. Even with that in mind, the whole experience, since the first apparition of the child in the vent at the very beginning, is tainted with anything but joy and hopeful resolution of this war. Shepard is the main protagonist of this "hope", and all along he seems just a shadow of himself, even after winning a battle. This is reinforced by the small mandatory "discussions" with Anderson and Hackett on the Normandy after almost every mission, where smiling on a victory was not an option.

So, of course, I hope to see more of Shepard (and others!), in DLC or whatever form, and I hope that these additions to the original content will help to tilt the mood of the game towards a little more "joy". One of the very best moments of the game, for my part, was Hackett's speech to Shepard, when he asks : "Why me?". Hackett tells Shepard the reasons behind hope, and why leaders like Shepard are needed. Yet, I felt at the end of the game that, mostly, Shepard's voice was heard, but the light did not come out of the dark until that tri-colored explosion thing. That, in fact, was the exact kind of event that would have sent the Dungeon Master drink his beer alone outside, while the rest of the "dead party" would celebrate the game and fun, but not the final assault on the principle behind human games : to simply have fun, to get our heads out of the grayness of reality.

Thane's combat with Kai Leng was epic, too.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 19 mars 2012 - 06:29 .


#6902
EddekFZ

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Well, I know for sure, that NO-ONE from Bioware staff is reading this thread. Not with this rate of posting new stuff.

Still, I'm gonna tell you all, the ending SUCK. Galaxy-load of black-plot-holes. I'm okay with Shepard's death. I'm not okay with the holes though.

The way I see it?

Get Drew Karpyshyn back, pay him crapload of money and he'll sort out the enging that You apperently can't.

#6903
jeweledleah

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you know what's realistic?

this and this scenes just like it.  dystopian, every dead endings are pretty far away from realism despite some people's assertions.  ironic isn't it?

there's nothing wrong or selfish or diminished about an option of a happy ending.  in fact, its as realistic if not more so then a heroic sacrificial death.

#6904
Cyren

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I already posted this piece on the Facebook page, but what the hell~


I love the trilogy, it draws you in, captivates you and it demands that you finish it. In style ofcourse. The characters are well developed and you feel like you're emotionally invested in it. For a moment the world really just revolves around you, your Shepard and the story you are in.
You work through the first and second game, enjoying each ending and each choice you have made.
Then you arrive at the third game, you stumble over a few inconsistencies, a few minor plot-holes, but think: "It's going to be okay, the ending is going to be completely worth it. I'll see every choice I made reflected back in the ending."
You see favorite characters die and mourn their deaths, you see the things you put in motion and then you are there, at the ending.
You're exited and anxious, worried you'll mess this up or something goes wrong.

And then the entire thing just shatters. The inconsistencies become bigger, there is a Deus Ex Machina stuck in the ending and the choices you made previous no longer matter. If you helped races obtain peace with their enemies is now a moot point. You trip from one plot hole straight into the next. And the endings themselves are colored coded.
Oh it isn't bad that Shepard dies, it fits to a certain point. But the rest?
You go from point A not to point B, but to point C or even D.
The flow of the game that was previously there is just gone. You feel for a brief moment incredibly cheated and play the game again, afraid you missed something only to arrive at the completely same ending again and again.

Bioware, I am a fan of Mass Effect. I enjoyed the game, but the ending is just a let down. I don't ask for a happy ending with roses, rainbows and sunshine (although it would be nice, especially to see how your character, LI and friends would do in the future).
What I do ask, is that you change the ending. Look at the choices and information in the previous games and then compare it with what we have now. Hell even play the games, or ask your friends to play it and ask for their honest opinion.
Remove the Dues Ex Machina and come up with something original and effective. Make the story flow again, so that over ten years we can still say; "Mass Effect was a story I still want to play."

There, I said my piece.

#6905
Faedryssel

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I haven't been able to read all of the pages and pages of comments here, although I have read a few. But there are lots of arguments here that are so valid I'm left wondering.....how did they not see the glaringly obvious plot holes at BW? Were they too close to the project? Were there too many people working on it that they didn't see what we see? I am pretty sure that there are some pretty smart people working there...how did they completely miss all the plot holes ? How did they think that there was choice? Did someone at some point say....uhh guys.. this is BS? Did that person get shut down? WHAT HAPPENED?!?

#6906
JStymie

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Late to the party, and therefore I'm sure anything I could say has already been rehashed twenty times over, but nonetheless I felt I should give my feedback.

Yes, I think the ending to Mass Effect 3 was quite bad, and it really does pain me to say that -- the Mass Effect universe is easily my favorite new Intellectual Property of the last 10+ years, and to have it end in such a dissatisfying fashion was truly a let down.  Some of my main issues...

1) Complete disregard of the very basic formula that made Mass Effect a success.

In the Mass Effect universe, we're been told early on that Player Choices Matter, this has been the driving force behind so much of the games. However, the end of Mass Effect 3 throws that out the window completely -- in fact, the endings in Mass Effect 3 almost seem to, instead, be a poignant statement that nothing the player did mattered, ever.  Were you proud that you achieved Geth / Quarian peace not just a few hours ago in your playthrough?  Well, too bad!  Because now all the Geth are dead, and all the Quarians are maybe dead, and even if they're not they can't get back to their home which you liberated because the relays were destroyed...

2) The number of plotholes in the ending is just beyond absurd.

And that is just one example of the many plotholes in the ending.  We've been told all along that a relay being destroyed would spell the end of that particular system.  And yet Joker and some of the crew seemed to survive.

But there is another one -- Joker was just in orbit around Earth.  Why is he mysteriously fleeing the battle?  It's not like he knew what was happening with Shepard, it's not like he knew there was going to be some explosion he had to run from -- and you cannot say he saw it coming.  If you look at the video of the relays going off in the ending, it all happened so fast that those bursts of energy were covering spaces of thousands of light years in a matter of 2-3 seconds.

And then Joker gets off the Normandy... and he has some company.  And it included someone I took into the final battle -- now, how exactly did this happen?  Depending on your in-game actions, Cortez was either grounded or dead (and took your shuttle with him). Why was a squadmate who was with Shepard not 2-3 minutes earlier suddenly on an escape route away from Earth?

And why do Jeff and EDI (assuming she was alive in the ending) have this happy look on their faces like it's a brave new world?  How can they have ANY idea what actually happened?  No one but Shepard should know anything except that the relays were destroyed.  As far as Joker should know, the reapers could be right behind them and about to attack them on the planet they crashed onto.

Let's say you go the route of destroying the reapers and got the 5k+ war effort "best" ending, and you buy into the whole "Shepard was indoctrinated" stance.  While Shepard being indoctrinated makes some sense, it makes for other plotholes on its own.

First, when Shepard's body is shown gasping for air, judging by the rubble he appears to be in the place where Harbinger caught him with the laser beam...

(side note -- how the hell did the fleet know which particular Reaper was Harbinger?  It makes no sense.  Extra side note:  We're told old expired species live on in the reaper form... then why do the reapers all look the same and have no variation?  And don't look like any species we've seen, I mean at least having one prothean-like reaper would have backed that up)

Anywho, if everything that happened was a halucination brought on by indoctrination, then how did Shepard even make "the decision"?  He's just been laying in a pile of rubble the whole time, how did he make the Citadel fire up remotely?

And on that note, the whole idea of the crucible doesn't make sense at all. If Shepard was the first organic to visit the God / AI, how did anyone know it was the catalyst?  How did species just randomly happen to start building something that conveniently fit into the citadel's plans without knowing about it?  I'm all for suspension of disbelief, but the whole idea of the crucible goes way too far.

3) Inflexible "limited decisions" endings were proven terrible by DXHR, why go that route?

I think the biggest crime in regards to the ending of Mass Effect 3, and the biggest example of the ending eschewing all which made the Mass Effect series good, is how it lacks consideration for the Quarian-Geth conflict.  Now, I'm not talking about the pure waste of liberating Rannock only to strand the quarians on the far side of the galaxy from it 3-4 hours later. I'm talking about ME3 giving you the ability to achieve Geth-Quarian peace, and then the ending never taking that into account.

Such a truly awful missed opportunity. To have players sit there and be told they have to choose between one of three asinine limited options, because "synthetics and organics will never work, and synthetics will always exterminate organics", when you just achieved peace between synthetics and organics and prevented that from happening is ridiculous. The fact that there is no chance to alter the AI's thought process by showing you had just done what he felt was impossible... I really just do not understand how the team could disregard this.

----------------------------------

At this point, I don't even know if a new DLC ending would fix things, because the damage has already been done. I guess I'm disappointed because Bioware had the chance to do something amazing here -- a true trilogy of the highest quality, something that does not happen very often. Unfortunately, it ended on a sour note and that really impacts the series' legacy.

#6907
alex13abc

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Still no word from BW besides " look ME3 got great reviews from pro reviewers, oh by the way, we know some of our fans need more closure, we'll talk when more people have played the game" ? Wth are these guys waiting for ? The more people reach the ending, the more angry fans they'lll get.

#6908
Iconoclaste

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If you ask that kind of questions here, you will only get speculative answers, and that will surely lead to nonsense from some angry players. We need more grounded opinions, and we will get better results by subtly opening doors to solutions than by widening the scope of grief.

#6909
EddekFZ

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alex13abc wrote...

Wth are these guys waiting for ? The more people reach the ending, the more angry fans they'lll get.


They just don't care.

#6910
JamesMoriarty123

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On the ending...

I actually enjoyed it. I already stated this in another thread and I hope (a vain hope) that Priestly or Stan Woo or some Bioware dude reads my post and feels good about themselves. What I liked was that it was unexpected, it wasn't a traditional "happy" ending, in fact I like that there was no possibility of that. The galaxy was burning, it was always gonna take a sacrifice to stop it, and Shepard was the only one to get the job done.

I also liked that you got closure with your love interest and other squad mates (anyone who says otherwise is lying) before the ending. It gives the emotional scenes during the game with your love interest and others more resonance after the finish as you both wanted to live happily ever after, but deep down you knew it was never on the cards..man I welled up when Liara mentioned out little blue babies...yeah I'm soft as...Lurpak Spreadable.

Obviously people want to know what happened to everyone etc, etc, etc...at a push we could do with knowing what happened to the crew, and how your squadmates ended up back on the Normandy (yeah, sure, I still like a little exposition) but I think their futures aren't as important as the message the ending created. But yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing what happened to my people(s) in a future patch.

People saying choice didn't matter etc, etc, well, yes it did. Without the alliances forged over the course of the game Shepard wouldn't have been able to GET to the Citadel, and without that the Reapers win, gg.

Choices

The way I see it, if you destroy the reapers, you know that the cycle ends, but so do the mass relays and all synthetics...but with those gone, maybe, just maybe life develops anew and finds it's way to the stars again, but this time maybe they learn to live in peace with synthetics, or maybe the cycle begins again.

If you synergise the Galaxy, it's the ultimate good ending in my view, Shepard sacrifices himself and all he is (part synthestic himself after Cerberus rebuilt him, hence the reaction to the Thessia Beacon and the AI on Overlord) to merge synthetic and organic life, with no conflict of interest, there can be a lasting peace.

And I didn't reload and do the control thing so I have no opinion on it...The Illusive Man is far too extreme, no way I would seize power after all the sacrificed in the name of doing such a thing.

Anyway, the "canonical" ending for me is the synergy one...hope for the future, but at a great price.

After doing some reading of others opinions I get why some didn't like it, but I hope they don't change it, and if they do I hope they don't change it too much. 

Favourite Moments

Krios VS Kai Leng on the Citadel
Awwwww yeah! That was straight out of the movies, old assassin meets new.

Final love scene with Liara/Love Interest
I'm a total nerd but man, I love that collection of blue pixels/polygons. Well done Bioware, it was a very tastefully done scene, acted well too.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 19 mars 2012 - 06:40 .


#6911
TrueMadayar

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alex13abc wrote...

Still no word from BW besides " look ME3 got great reviews from pro reviewers, oh by the way, we know some of our fans need more closure, we'll talk when more people have played the game" ? Wth are these guys waiting for ? The more people reach the ending, the more angry fans they'lll get.


Y0, bro, some rumours are around, read some of them in German news today. Polish leak says a DLC named The Truth is planned and will change the ending, or better, continue it. Over at the Talimancers we decided to hope, but hold the line nevertheless.

All possible brilliant ideas have already been pitched. Now we must keep up the pressure that they listen to us.

Hold the line.

Keelah Se'Lai

Mad

#6912
RudyHuxtable

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There are volumes of posts here, and many people have articulated better than I can the issues and shortcomings of the finale.  I could probably find a lot of different things I would've rather not seen but I did, however, want to mention my specific disappointments.

I will proceed under the assumption you are not going to change the ending.  I have no love for the way the series has been brought to a close, but it is not my place to second guess your choices.  It's entirely possible the ending as it stands is just too heady for me, and so I am sorry if I just misunderstand your intent.  I welcome your reply explaining the choices you made, so I can be as proud of what you've done as I'm sure you yourselves are.

Having said that, there are two moments that stand out for me specifically as missed opportunities.

The first is when Liara visits Shepard in his quarters and tells him she has been working on a "time capsule" of Shepard's story.  When I watched this scene I felt it pretty strongly foreshadowed Shepard's death.  That's pretty bittersweet, but it also sets up the idea that once Shepard has defeated the Reapers and the galaxy is saved (including the preservation of civilization and the Mass Relays), we would be treated to an epilogue that shows a montage of the choices you made over the course of three games.  How wonderful would it have been to watch the Stargazer (Buzz Aldrin is the man!) be the one to provide VO, too!  Or perhaps just have it be your teammates who survived eulogizing you on the remains of the Citadel (crashed on earth or floating in orbit, either/or).  More importantly, you gave us a choice in that conversation to have Liara make it uplifting and powerful, or just make it the truth.  What a brilliant opportunity left to wither on the vine, and this, to me, would have made for the bittersweet ending you suggest was the intent.

The second part ties directly into the first: when Liara shares her memories of Shepard, all we see is a white light.  That seems a bit unfair.  This moment could've been better used to recall the time capsule.  Why not use this opportunity to recap the series, remind us what we're fighting for one last time before the final push?

I have a lot of questions about the end that I would love to have answered, but the most pressing concern is whether or not you ran out of time and were rushed to release the game.  Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords was an incredible title.... right until the end.  I understand the game was Obsidian Entertainment under license from you and Lucasarts, but I can't help feel like there are uncomfortable parallels.  Both endings feel very rushed and unfulfilling.

There are thousands of posts now about this, and I can only hope mine is read.  I would just love to understand why, stylistically, the choice to end civilization was made and what statement, existentially, you were trying to make.  I'm sure a lot of the vitriol would be assuaged if we were just made to understand.  Why destroy the Mass Relays in all three endings, why kill Shepard off in two of them, and why strand all of the fleets over earth who fought to stop the Reapers?

Thanks, from a loyal fan since Baldur's Gate.

#6913
ramenbito

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I have been a BW fangirl ever since I played Baldur's Gate for the first time, and thus far I never once complained about anything about the games they produced (even the most discussed ME2 or DA2) because maybe they weren't according to many peoples tastes but I liked all of their games. ME 3 I adored until the last mission part. What made Mass effect such an interesting game series was how the Shepards of other people (or our own rerun Shepards) were different than your own, be their choices or the way the act or simply the way they look. We were told that every decision we made could have a huge impact on the game specially the ending. I wont lie and say that I didn't want a happy ending, I really did. But that wasn't the case either, the ending does not give closure nor does it seem logical; the joker and Normandy escaping part, the starchild who admits being the big bad boss (and who Shepard just listens), the whatever you do its the same part (the galaxy is doomed) etc etc etc.

The whole game had me on the edge and I was really worried about the outcome of my actions but in the end I realized that "my quest is vain". I really want to replay the game but if the out came is so different why would I go all the way until the end I am literally killing a few species, ending the whole citadel culture, Joker and my companions who were supposed to get the beam with me are stranded in a two moon planet which will be dominated by humans (Stargazer and co) and in the end everything my Shepard believed in (equality among species coming beforehand) just goes down in the drain.

Also can someone explain how Shepard can be alive after red choice? Isn't Shepard a good portion of cybernetics?

#6914
Cyren

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alex13abc wrote...

Still no word from BW besides " look ME3 got great reviews from pro reviewers, oh by the way, we know some of our fans need more closure, we'll talk when more people have played the game" ? Wth are these guys waiting for ? The more people reach the ending, the more angry fans they'lll get.


Maybe because they don't know exactly what to say. A lot of people are demanding many things. They might need to prioritize. And you gotta admit, would you know what to say, without making the fans even more angry, or get hell from you boss because you might have said something you shouldn't have?

#6915
NewbieClocker

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I am sure with over 250 pages of replies this has been covered by someone. But here's the deal with my enjoyment of these three games.

Mass Effect 1, was a sleeper hit, bought it literally 4 months before the second one came out and was completely surprised about it even though by this time it had been out for over a year. Great story line, got chills over the battle of the citadel, think i will go play it again. Played through the game 3 times.

Mass effect 2, it seems someone put their stamp on this one and I can no longer continue same sex relationships even though it was fine in the first one. Also the thermal clip system makes less sense than overheating system from the first game, if clips are blocks of metal being shaved off, then there is no need for ammo. I would understand overheating, but not going back to a system of needing ammo. At least if you run out of thermal clips you should be able to still fire, only slowly. Not a cool change when you look at the lore of the game. Everything else different too, but not bad, (really miss being able to carry my weapon everywhere and fire just for the animation of it) played through the game 5 times.

Mass Effect 3, Ok, a lot of the cool stuff has come back, I can mod again (even though its not that many, just different upgrades of the same ones) Funny that Tali would say she got hit by an assassin using Plotinum (I think) rounds but no longer have that as a mod. Still its a lot of game to code and their is sooo much. Game play is great, love the fact that as a Vanguard if I truly embrace play bat sh*t insane I can clear a map of enemies in seconds ....or die. Will play again probably a couple more times.

Now on to the ending that everyone has lost their minds over.
I am totally ok with killing of Shepard, it’s the end of an epic story and it's a final way to end the series. The last 3 mins of my melted armor burned to my body was tearfully crazy and I was ready to sacrifice myself for the galaxy.
HOWEVER, you completely lost me. I am rich in sci-fi interest so I filled in the back story for myself. I imagine that 1 mil years ago, organics created synthetics and they went to war, and wiped them out, then the synthetics realized the error of their ways and let organics rebuild and it took forever, eventually the organics realized they didn’t like the being governed by the system of synthetics and went to war again. So after they wiped them out again, they realized they needed to change it up, so they started the reaper harvesting. So that’s my take on it.
HOWEVER, what the what? Why is EDI on a ship when she was just with me in the last fight, why isn’t joker upset that I killed all synthetics, why did I painstakingly broker a peace just to kill all the geth. And my biggest disappointment, I have to kill EDI and the geth just to hopefully see a N7 armor take in a deep breath before cutting away, (FYI, that is brilliant and I love that but not at the expense of only one of the 3 choices) In mass effect 2 didn’t taking out the relay destroy the whole system? Can’t I rebuild a relay? I seem to remember driving a Mako through one that the Protheans build in ME1, so why is everyone stuck on world at the end and can’t explore space? I am ok with crazy endings and I don’t even need to be spoon-fed storylines, but to me it seemed, ,,,,ummm,… I guess lacking.

#6916
Greyward

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I've been a huge fan of Bioware since Baldur's Gate. I am now, in many ways thanks to their games, a couple of months away from graduating with a Master's Degree in Game Development from SCAD Atlanta. I've been watching this unfold, trying to make sense of it, and at this point I finally feel like I can say something about it.

First, some speculation about the ending: I think the Mass Relays "self destructed" in a way much more benign and contained than the rather crude "bludgeon it with an asteroid" approach of the "The Arrival" DLC. Second, if Ash was correct in the first game when she said that "a dozen light years is about a days cruise", this would make ships in the ME universe capable of 4,000+ times the speed of light (12x365) ly/y or in other words, significantly faster than the USS Voyager going full tilt in Trek. So no, the fleets would not be trapped on Earth. The entire galactic civilization would have to be re-made, and doubtless thousands of new worlds away from the relay system would be discovered. Its an interesting setup in many ways.

On the other hand, I think the endings fail utterly as the end to an RPG series. It would maybe have been a solid, if a bit mediocre, ending to a movie series, or a novel trilogy. Out of step with what had come before,certainly contrived, but passable. The problem is that games are an interactive medium. RPGs even more so. Games >cannot< (any good game theory professor will tell you this) have the same level of direct, unilateral authorship as books or movies. Games have rules, rules that even the game designer can't break. As much as fictional universes have metaphorical rules, games have real literal rules. If Richard Garfield plays you in Magic duel, he can't break the rules anymore than you can, just because he's the game's creator. Similarly, woe to the Dungeonmaster/Gamemaster/Narrator/Storyteller who breaks the rules unilaterally without consent from the rest of the game group. Sure, its his adventure, but soon he will find nobody wants to play with him.

I've run about 15 years worth of roleplaying games, and I've been all those things (DM, GM, Narrator, etc, etc). I can only imagine having played with the same group for five long years, telling an epic sci-fi adventure, then at the end taking all the character sheets and telling the group its all down to one choice. No die rolls, no real decisions, we're done, heres the end, and then hit them with the ME3 ending. Lets face it, there would be violence. For five years they would have been part of the telling and building of an amazing thing, and I would have used my feeble "authority" to essentially betray them, and satisfy my own desire for an "artsy" end. Because lets face it, this is an authorial ego trip. Someone at Bioware wanted this ending very badly, thinking it would go over as some artistic thing. To some, to that small percentage of the population who is either detached enough, or who envisioned it similarly, it is satisfying, but that is a coincidence at best.

What a strange thing it has become. What a missed opportunity. I've been playing Mass Effect thinking "this is the game I always wanted to make". It took the best of Starflight and Syd Mead and 80s sci-fi and made something new and glorious out of it. But in the end, maybe after listening to too much of their own press, the writers forgot they were making a game and tried to use their spotlight to give us the old "bait and switch" and tell a different story.

I wonder what will happen next. I wonder if they'll find a way to fix it. If not, well, at least maybe someday I'll still get to make that "game I would have made."

#6917
DESTRAUDO

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This post makes me want to be able to report a post for being great.

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

On the ending...

I actually enjoyed it. I already stated this in another thread and I hope (a vain hope) that Priestly or Stan Woo or some Bioware dude reads my post and feels good about themselves. What I liked was that it was unexpected, it wasn't a traditional "happy" ending, in fact I like that there was no possibility of that. The galaxy was burning, it was always gonna take a sacrifice to stop it, and Shepard was the only one to get the job done.

I also liked that you got closure with your love interest and other squad mates (anyone who says otherwise is lying) before the ending. It gives the emotional scenes during the game with your love interest and others more resonance after the finish as you both wanted to live happily ever after, but deep down you knew it was never on the cards..man I welled up when Liara mentioned out little blue babies...yeah I'm soft as...Lurpak Spreadable.

Obviously people want to know what happened to everyone etc, etc, etc...at a push we could do with knowing what happened to the crew, and how your squadmates ended up back on the Normandy (yeah, sure, I still like a little exposition) but I think their futures aren't as important as the message the ending created. But yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing what happened to my people(s) in a future patch.

People saying choice didn't matter etc, etc, well, yes it did. Without the alliances forged over the course of the game Shepard wouldn't have been able to GET to the Citadel, and without that the Reapers win, gg.

Choices

The way I see it, if you destroy the reapers, you know that the cycle ends, but so do the mass relays and all synthetics...but with those gone, maybe, just maybe life develops anew and finds it's way to the stars again, but this time maybe they learn to live in peace with synthetics, or maybe the cycle begins again.

If you synergise the Galaxy, it's the ultimate good ending in my view, Shepard sacrifices himself and all he is (part synthestic himself after Cerberus rebuilt him, hence the reaction to the Thessia Beacon and the AI on Overlord) to merge synthetic and organic life, with no conflict of interest, there can be a lasting peace.

And I didn't reload and do the control thing so I have no opinion on it...The Illusive Man is far too extreme, no way I would seize power after all the sacrificed in the name of doing such a thing.

Anyway, the "canonical" ending for me is the synergy one...hope for the future, but at a great price.

After doing some reading of others opinions I get why some didn't like it, but I hope they don't change it, and if they do I hope they don't change it too much. 

Favourite Moment
(s)

Krios VS Kai Leng on the Citadel
Awwwww yeah! That was straight out of the movies, old assassin meets new.

Final love scene with Liara/Love Interest
I'm a total nerd but man, I love that collection of blue pixels/polygons. Well done Bioware, it was a very tastefully done scene, acted well too.



#6918
theoldludwigvan

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VOOYAH wrote...


DO NOT change the ending in this game.

Players should realize that this game is a story of
sacrifice and hope.

Shepard has to make the most trying decisions and ultimately
has one last to make in the game and in doing so Shepard sacrifices himself
knowing what has to be done to save earth and everyone else. Bioware did this
for two reasons I believe. First is - finalizing the series and wrapping it up
to move on to another game, secondly and most importantly was to make the
players go through the decision with Shepard and wanting you to personally feel
the emotions that you would have to go through if you knew that you only had two
choices to make and you were going to die NO MATTER WHAT to save humanity hence
the use of the word CRUCIBLE in the game. “A place or set of circumstances
where people or things are subjected to forces that test them and often make
them change”

I understand that this is a video game and there could have
been another option to have the happy ending that most people want, but that’s
not how life works, there are not always happy endings.  Just look at the beginning of the game when
Shepard talks to the young boy in the air duct and later watches him being
blown out of the sky by a Reaper and has recurring nightmares about it. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE A HAPPY ENDING AFTER SEEING THAT???  Are some players
that selfish that all they want to see is Shepard being the hero and riding off
into the sunset with his crew?  



On another note….Thank
you Bioware I believe this game honours men and women who are the “Shepard’s”
that would give their lives to save someone else. (Military/Police/Fire)


That is a misunderstanding. I for one, and I've seen MANY people echo this, aren't mad because Shepard dies. We are mad because nothing makes any damn sense. The end 3 choices don't reflect your choices overall, as Bioware promised, and Joker's motivation don't make sense. And how did my London squadmates end up on the Normandy? I don't care if I die. With what was at stake, I was prepared to lose Shepard since I played ME1 and knew it was a trilogy. We just want an ending that makes sense for our characters, squad mates, and the ME universe.

#6919
MD2

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ERM, a lot of people are complaining that there has been NO CONTACT from Bioware, when just a tiny bit of research would've taken you to this post. They ARE listening.

https://www.facebook...275243029217754

#6920
JamesMoriarty123

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theoldludwigvan wrote...

VOOYAH wrote...


DO NOT change the ending in this game.

Players should realize that this game is a story of
sacrifice and hope.

Shepard has to make the most trying decisions and ultimately
has one last to make in the game and in doing so Shepard sacrifices himself
knowing what has to be done to save earth and everyone else. Bioware did this
for two reasons I believe. First is - finalizing the series and wrapping it up
to move on to another game, secondly and most importantly was to make the
players go through the decision with Shepard and wanting you to personally feel
the emotions that you would have to go through if you knew that you only had two
choices to make and you were going to die NO MATTER WHAT to save humanity hence
the use of the word CRUCIBLE in the game. “A place or set of circumstances
where people or things are subjected to forces that test them and often make
them change”

I understand that this is a video game and there could have
been another option to have the happy ending that most people want, but that’s
not how life works, there are not always happy endings.  Just look at the beginning of the game when
Shepard talks to the young boy in the air duct and later watches him being
blown out of the sky by a Reaper and has recurring nightmares about it. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE A HAPPY ENDING AFTER SEEING THAT???  Are some players
that selfish that all they want to see is Shepard being the hero and riding off
into the sunset with his crew?  



On another note….Thank
you Bioware I believe this game honours men and women who are the “Shepard’s”
that would give their lives to save someone else. (Military/Police/Fire)


That is a misunderstanding. I for one, and I've seen MANY people echo this, aren't mad because Shepard dies. We are mad because nothing makes any damn sense. The end 3 choices don't reflect your choices overall, as Bioware promised, and Joker's motivation don't make sense. And how did my London squadmates end up on the Normandy? I don't care if I die. With what was at stake, I was prepared to lose Shepard since I played ME1 and knew it was a trilogy. We just want an ending that makes sense for our characters, squad mates, and the ME universe.


I support this in that they shouldn't change the ending, but sure, I wouldn't mind some more expostion regarding the Normandy and her crew.

#6921
xistfirat

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alex13abc wrote...

Still no word from BW besides " look ME3 got great reviews from pro reviewers, oh by the way, we know some of our fans need more closure, we'll talk when more people have played the game" ? Wth are these guys waiting for ? The more people reach the ending, the more angry fans they'lll get.


oh, you are so wrong.
this is from the Mass Effect facebook page

We are aware that there are concerns about a recent post from this account regarding the ending of the game. In this post it was stated that at this time we do not have plans to change the ending.

We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending.

Your feedback and opinions are of the utmost importance to us. We apologize for any confusion this has caused. Our top priority regarding this discussion is to keep communication with you, our loyal fans, open and productive.

Modifié par xistfirat, 19 mars 2012 - 06:42 .


#6922
OoWiDoWoO

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I want to start by saying sorry for such a large post but I have alot to say about the ending and a few other topics. Like alot of other fans of the series, I have concerns over the ending of Mass Effect 3. I believe the ending needs to be changed or at least have another option that doesnt feel like I just ran into a brick wall. My reason for this is that, quite simply, there just isnt a resolve to it for me. I want to see what happened to all these charectors that I have come to know and even love over the course of 3 games and how my decisions forever changed the galexy as a whole. This is something I feel should have been a no brainer for you bioware and I also have to admit that I kinda feel as if it was a slap in the face to not only me but many of the other fans. That may sound a little harsh but its the truth. Like most fans of the series, I have followed the story since day 1 and given how much time, money and waiting we have all given the series, it just doesnt seem right to say "Hey, you have done so much stuff for the past (roughly) 6 years and now we are gonna end it all by adding more questions and that sense of un-fullfillmant."  I stated before that I I felt like my decisions had literally no weight on how the ending played out and thats because they didnt, another thing that I felt should hav been a no brainer. I feel that if anything about the ending was a step in the right direction, it was shephard's death. Simply because that his/her story has been told and now its time to start anew with a different hero's fight to save the galexy. However, if you think about it, the mass relay's were basically the ONE thing that really and truly connected the galexy and then you go and destroy them. If a new story were to be told within the Mass Effect universe, how is everyone going to get around the galexy?? What point is there in even bringing every race together to cooperate if they arent even going to get past their homeworld's or the Sol system in the future?? Another thing I feel that I need to bring up is that the whole War Assest's idea was basicaly a waste of time since you really didnt get to see how each of those "asset's" really effected/turned the tide of the final battle. With all that said (I feel a million times better now thats off my chest) I just want to say that I love the series and will continue to play them. I very much look foreward to possibly seeing a new ending and more story's based within the Mass Effect universe. I will also respect any decision that Bioware makes and they will always have my loyalty as a fan.

#6923
greywardencommander

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EddekFZ wrote...

Well, I know for sure, that NO-ONE from Bioware staff is reading this thread. Not with this rate of posting new stuff.

Still, I'm gonna tell you all, the ending SUCK. Galaxy-load of black-plot-holes. I'm okay with Shepard's death. I'm not okay with the holes though.

The way I see it?

Get Drew Karpyshyn back, pay him crapload of money and he'll sort out the enging that You apperently can't.


the fact he left with (next to) no input in the final game of the trilogy he created seems odd to me. Maybe they told him to create an ending that allowed lots and lots of dlc and he was like I'll write what I want and they said go do your novels then. I just find it odd for the creator not to see it through to the end. By no means am I saying Mac Walters is a bad writer, he clearly isn't (based on his ME1 stuff) but I just think it needed Drew's touch. At the very least it should have gone to Patrick Weekes who I believe along with Drew is one of the original writers.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 19 mars 2012 - 06:44 .


#6924
JamesMoriarty123

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DESTRAUDO wrote...

This post makes me want to be able to report a post for being great.

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

On the ending...

I actually enjoyed it. I already stated this in another thread and I hope (a vain hope) that Priestly or Stan Woo or some Bioware dude reads my post and feels good about themselves. What I liked was that it was unexpected, it wasn't a traditional "happy" ending, in fact I like that there was no possibility of that. The galaxy was burning, it was always gonna take a sacrifice to stop it, and Shepard was the only one to get the job done.

I also liked that you got closure with your love interest and other squad mates (anyone who says otherwise is lying) before the ending. It gives the emotional scenes during the game with your love interest and others more resonance after the finish as you both wanted to live happily ever after, but deep down you knew it was never on the cards..man I welled up when Liara mentioned out little blue babies...yeah I'm soft as...Lurpak Spreadable.

Obviously people want to know what happened to everyone etc, etc, etc...at a push we could do with knowing what happened to the crew, and how your squadmates ended up back on the Normandy (yeah, sure, I still like a little exposition) but I think their futures aren't as important as the message the ending created. But yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing what happened to my people(s) in a future patch.

People saying choice didn't matter etc, etc, well, yes it did. Without the alliances forged over the course of the game Shepard wouldn't have been able to GET to the Citadel, and without that the Reapers win, gg.

Choices

The way I see it, if you destroy the reapers, you know that the cycle ends, but so do the mass relays and all synthetics...but with those gone, maybe, just maybe life develops anew and finds it's way to the stars again, but this time maybe they learn to live in peace with synthetics, or maybe the cycle begins again.

If you synergise the Galaxy, it's the ultimate good ending in my view, Shepard sacrifices himself and all he is (part synthestic himself after Cerberus rebuilt him, hence the reaction to the Thessia Beacon and the AI on Overlord) to merge synthetic and organic life, with no conflict of interest, there can be a lasting peace.

And I didn't reload and do the control thing so I have no opinion on it...The Illusive Man is far too extreme, no way I would seize power after all the sacrificed in the name of doing such a thing.

Anyway, the "canonical" ending for me is the synergy one...hope for the future, but at a great price.

After doing some reading of others opinions I get why some didn't like it, but I hope they don't change it, and if they do I hope they don't change it too much. 

Favourite Moment
(s)

Krios VS Kai Leng on the Citadel
Awwwww yeah! That was straight out of the movies, old assassin meets new.

Final love scene with Liara/Love Interest
I'm a total nerd but man, I love that collection of blue pixels/polygons. Well done Bioware, it was a very tastefully done scene, acted well too.


Thank you, glad to know I'm not alone in thinking the way I do.

#6925
ramenbito

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xistfirat wrote...

alex13abc wrote...

Still no word from BW besides " look ME3 got great reviews from pro reviewers, oh by the way, we know some of our fans need more closure, we'll talk when more people have played the game" ? Wth are these guys waiting for ? The more people reach the ending, the more angry fans they'lll get.


oh, you are so wrong.
this is from the Mass Effect facebook page

We are aware that there are concerns about a recent post from this account regarding the ending of the game. In this post it was stated that at this time we do not have plans to change the ending.

We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending.

Your feedback and opinions are of the utmost importance to us. We apologize for any confusion this has caused. Our top priority regarding this discussion is to keep communication with you, our loyal fans, open and productive.


The feedback they want so much.

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/