On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
#6926
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 06:47
To those who are happy with the ending as is...don't download the updated ending...be happy with what you have. Bioware has always stated that there is no canon story since everyone plays through the game different. I would just like my Shepard's story to end the way he deserves. To be clear...I don't care if Shepard dies...I just need to feel a satisfaction that my story ended the way it should
#6927
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 06:47
On a whole, I did really enjoy playing the game. There were many moments that were perfectly executed - Garrus and Shepard shooting bottles over the Citadel, Kaidan's romance arc, Mordin curing the Genophage (I cried like a baby for brave, noble Mordin!!), Legion's sacrifice and Tali mourning him, even Anderson's death at the end. Couldn't have been better, IMHO.
But, then the game ends and instead of that mixture of elation, relief, grief and horror that I expected to feel, I mostly just felt confused. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what happened. That's not a good ending note. I had an EMS of over 6000 and chose to Destroy, so Shepard lived - or at least it's hinted that she lived, I don't actually know that for sure. Maybe nobody came to look for her body and she just expired there lonely and weak and hopeless. Who knows?
What happened to all those fleets Shepard brought to Earth after the relays blew up? The poor Turians and Quarians probably starved to death (no dextro food on Earth, you know). But what about the others? Did they all start working together to rebuild Earth? Did they try to get home somehow? Did any of my companions and friends and allies survive?
But all of that uncertainty I could live with, if only it weren't for this: why in the name of all that is holy did Joker take the Normandy and flee the battle? Why were they anywhere near the relay when it blew? This is just beyond baffling. I suppose that this scene is included so that if you choose Destroy and your EMS is low (so that Earth is destroyed) you are left with some kind of hopeful ending - at least Joker got out alive! But in the case where Earth is intact and Shepard still breathing, it makes not one bit of sense! And how did Garrus and Kaidan get on the Normandy anyway? One minute they're sprinting with me and Anderson towards the light, then they're gone? Huh? I just don't understand. It seems like, if you have a high enough EMS to save Earth, a different scene should play where instead of getting stranded in Jurassic Park, the Normandy comes to the Citadel to recover Shepard's body. First they find Anderson and the Illusive Man, then finally they find Shepard. If Shepard is dead (and yes, I'm perfectly fine with the potential of Shepard being dead, I didn't choose Destroy just to save her, but because the other options just sounded like vile lies)... anyway, if Shepard is dead, then they recover her body and we get a scene with the gathered survivors giving her a hero's burial. You see them wipe their eyes, straighten their shoulders, look each other in the eyes, nod, and turn back to the work of rebuilding. In mourning, yes, but moving forward with hope for the future. If Shepard is still alive, you get the same scene except that it's Anderson (and any other non-surviving friends) we are mourning, and Shepard is the one who turns our attention back to the work at hand.
All in all, I want to say that no, I didn't expect a "happy" ending to a story this terrifyingly harsh. I did, however, in the tradition of past Mass Effect games, expect a HOPEFUL ending. One that has closure and holds together logically. One where we see not only how much has been lost, but also how much has been saved. I got part of that with the cheering Alliance soldiers watching the Reapers crumble, but no closure when it comes to the characters I cared about. I got too much ambiguity... too many baffling unanswered questions, and not enough tying things together. Yeah, I just want to know what happened, you know? It's hard to feel the powerful emotions (both good and bad) of the Pyrrhic Victory when you don't know if you actually understand what you just experienced.
#6928
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 06:48
Sure, there is a lot of player complaints on the internet about the endings being 'bad' - people like to complain. Unfortunately, because people tend to complain more then they praise it is giving a lopsided view of how players feel about the game. Perhaps those of us who appreciate the endings should kick up more fuss to try and even the feedback. Better Bioware listens to the praise of thousands then the complaints of hundreds.
#6929
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 06:51
A sad ending to a wonderfully written story...from a company I've admired since Baldur's Gate. I would like to say that the "Hollywood Ending" is the exception these days...and not the rule. Its become "cool" to not have a happy ending or even a reasonable balance between the two extremes...its all about removing hope, ultimate sacrifice that fails to make anything better. I am sick to death of everything having the dark endings...things are dark enough in this day and age that its nice to have your escapism be escapism.
Thats all I have to say.
#6930
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 06:52
I will gladly support you, since you have profound roots in AD&D gaming, and look forward to continue in the same spirit. Legacy of these old game systems are the foundation of "roleplaying" computer games, and what made them popular was the human factor, and the possibility to influence the outcomes with choices and reason. I, too, believe that the "poor" endings of ME3 were a minority's decision, and somewhat too personal for a broad audience.Greyward wrote...
I wonder what will happen next. I wonder if they'll find a way to fix it. If not, well, at least maybe someday I'll still get to make that "game I would have made."
Modifié par Iconoclaste, 19 mars 2012 - 06:54 .
#6931
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 06:53
If there is really more people who like the end than those who consider it a joke, well, you should have a lot of fan in a short period of time...
Until then, don't say people who like it are more than the others... It's totally false...
#6932
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 06:56
#6933
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:00
#6934
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:00
Greyward wrote...
I've been a huge fan of Bioware since Baldur's Gate. I am now, in many ways thanks to their games, a couple of months away from graduating with a Master's Degree in Game Development from SCAD Atlanta. I've been watching this unfold, trying to make sense of it, and at this point I finally feel like I can say something about it.
First, some speculation about the ending: I think the Mass Relays "self destructed" in a way much more benign and contained than the rather crude "bludgeon it with an asteroid" approach of the "The Arrival" DLC. Second, if Ash was correct in the first game when she said that "a dozen light years is about a days cruise", this would make ships in the ME universe capable of 4,000+ times the speed of light (12x365) ly/y or in other words, significantly faster than the USS Voyager going full tilt in Trek. So no, the fleets would not be trapped on Earth. The entire galactic civilization would have to be re-made, and doubtless thousands of new worlds away from the relay system would be discovered. Its an interesting setup in many ways.
On the other hand, I think the endings fail utterly as the end to an RPG series. It would maybe have been a solid, if a bit mediocre, ending to a movie series, or a novel trilogy. Out of step with what had come before,certainly contrived, but passable. The problem is that games are an interactive medium. RPGs even more so. Games >cannot< (any good game theory professor will tell you this) have the same level of direct, unilateral authorship as books or movies. Games have rules, rules that even the game designer can't break. As much as fictional universes have metaphorical rules, games have real literal rules. If Richard Garfield plays you in Magic duel, he can't break the rules anymore than you can, just because he's the game's creator. Similarly, woe to the Dungeonmaster/Gamemaster/Narrator/Storyteller who breaks the rules unilaterally without consent from the rest of the game group. Sure, its his adventure, but soon he will find nobody wants to play with him.
I've run about 15 years worth of roleplaying games, and I've been all those things (DM, GM, Narrator, etc, etc). I can only imagine having played with the same group for five long years, telling an epic sci-fi adventure, then at the end taking all the character sheets and telling the group its all down to one choice. No die rolls, no real decisions, we're done, heres the end, and then hit them with the ME3 ending. Lets face it, there would be violence. For five years they would have been part of the telling and building of an amazing thing, and I would have used my feeble "authority" to essentially betray them, and satisfy my own desire for an "artsy" end. Because lets face it, this is an authorial ego trip. Someone at Bioware wanted this ending very badly, thinking it would go over as some artistic thing. To some, to that small percentage of the population who is either detached enough, or who envisioned it similarly, it is satisfying, but that is a coincidence at best.
What a strange thing it has become. What a missed opportunity. I've been playing Mass Effect thinking "this is the game I always wanted to make". It took the best of Starflight and Syd Mead and 80s sci-fi and made something new and glorious out of it. But in the end, maybe after listening to too much of their own press, the writers forgot they were making a game and tried to use their spotlight to give us the old "bait and switch" and tell a different story.
I wonder what will happen next. I wonder if they'll find a way to fix it. If not, well, at least maybe someday I'll still get to make that "game I would have made."
This is by far one of the best post I've read.
#6935
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:01
#6936
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:01
https://docs.google...._source=message
(google account required)
#6937
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:01
thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/aj/topreasons/34623-why-we-hate-me3s-ending
#6938
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:01
If we take out all the quoting of long texts, this whole forum would not reach a hundred pages. No wonder everyone has the feeling that "Bioware is not reading everything", I doubt anyone here tries to do half of that.
Modifié par Iconoclaste, 19 mars 2012 - 07:03 .
#6939
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:02
JStymie wrote...
Late to the party, and therefore I'm sure anything I could say has already been rehashed twenty times over, but nonetheless I felt I should give my feedback.
Yes, I think the ending to Mass Effect 3 was quite bad, and it really does pain me to say that -- the Mass Effect universe is easily my favorite new Intellectual Property of the last 10+ years, and to have it end in such a dissatisfying fashion was truly a let down. Some of my main issues...
1) Complete disregard of the very basic formula that made Mass Effect a success.
In the Mass Effect universe, we're been told early on that Player Choices Matter, this has been the driving force behind so much of the games. However, the end of Mass Effect 3 throws that out the window completely -- in fact, the endings in Mass Effect 3 almost seem to, instead, be a poignant statement that nothing the player did mattered, ever. Were you proud that you achieved Geth / Quarian peace not just a few hours ago in your playthrough? Well, too bad! Because now all the Geth are dead, and all the Quarians are maybe dead, and even if they're not they can't get back to their home which you liberated because the relays were destroyed...
2) The number of plotholes in the ending is just beyond absurd.
And that is just one example of the many plotholes in the ending. We've been told all along that a relay being destroyed would spell the end of that particular system. And yet Joker and some of the crew seemed to survive.
But there is another one -- Joker was just in orbit around Earth. Why is he mysteriously fleeing the battle? It's not like he knew what was happening with Shepard, it's not like he knew there was going to be some explosion he had to run from -- and you cannot say he saw it coming. If you look at the video of the relays going off in the ending, it all happened so fast that those bursts of energy were covering spaces of thousands of light years in a matter of 2-3 seconds.
And then Joker gets off the Normandy... and he has some company. And it included someone I took into the final battle -- now, how exactly did this happen? Depending on your in-game actions, Cortez was either grounded or dead (and took your shuttle with him). Why was a squadmate who was with Shepard not 2-3 minutes earlier suddenly on an escape route away from Earth?
And why do Jeff and EDI (assuming she was alive in the ending) have this happy look on their faces like it's a brave new world? How can they have ANY idea what actually happened? No one but Shepard should know anything except that the relays were destroyed. As far as Joker should know, the reapers could be right behind them and about to attack them on the planet they crashed onto.
Let's say you go the route of destroying the reapers and got the 5k+ war effort "best" ending, and you buy into the whole "Shepard was indoctrinated" stance. While Shepard being indoctrinated makes some sense, it makes for other plotholes on its own.
First, when Shepard's body is shown gasping for air, judging by the rubble he appears to be in the place where Harbinger caught him with the laser beam...
(side note -- how the hell did the fleet know which particular Reaper was Harbinger? It makes no sense. Extra side note: We're told old expired species live on in the reaper form... then why do the reapers all look the same and have no variation? And don't look like any species we've seen, I mean at least having one prothean-like reaper would have backed that up)
Anywho, if everything that happened was a halucination brought on by indoctrination, then how did Shepard even make "the decision"? He's just been laying in a pile of rubble the whole time, how did he make the Citadel fire up remotely?
And on that note, the whole idea of the crucible doesn't make sense at all. If Shepard was the first organic to visit the God / AI, how did anyone know it was the catalyst? How did species just randomly happen to start building something that conveniently fit into the citadel's plans without knowing about it? I'm all for suspension of disbelief, but the whole idea of the crucible goes way too far.
3) Inflexible "limited decisions" endings were proven terrible by DXHR, why go that route?
I think the biggest crime in regards to the ending of Mass Effect 3, and the biggest example of the ending eschewing all which made the Mass Effect series good, is how it lacks consideration for the Quarian-Geth conflict. Now, I'm not talking about the pure waste of liberating Rannock only to strand the quarians on the far side of the galaxy from it 3-4 hours later. I'm talking about ME3 giving you the ability to achieve Geth-Quarian peace, and then the ending never taking that into account.
Such a truly awful missed opportunity. To have players sit there and be told they have to choose between one of three asinine limited options, because "synthetics and organics will never work, and synthetics will always exterminate organics", when you just achieved peace between synthetics and organics and prevented that from happening is ridiculous. The fact that there is no chance to alter the AI's thought process by showing you had just done what he felt was impossible... I really just do not understand how the team could disregard this.
----------------------------------
At this point, I don't even know if a new DLC ending would fix things, because the damage has already been done. I guess I'm disappointed because Bioware had the chance to do something amazing here -- a true trilogy of the highest quality, something that does not happen very often. Unfortunately, it ended on a sour note and that really impacts the series' legacy.
I was disappointed as many of you by the ending. Not because it's was a sad ending or shepard died. It was because there were major plotsholes and the lack of impact of early decisions you made trought the game as JStymie mentioned.
If bioware extented the game 10 minutes longer to take a little more time to explain their ends by more dialogues with the Starchild, to measure the consequences of the final choices and by patching some plotsholes, then I think that everyone could enjoy the end.
#6940
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:03
#6941
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:04
www.youtube.com/watch
Modifié par Vade Katana, 19 mars 2012 - 07:05 .
#6942
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:06
Sydeno wrote...
Until then, don't say people who like it are more than the others... It's totally false...
As soon as you stop assuming there are more people who dislike the ending, sure.
#6943
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:06
The points you bring up are exactly what I thought, as well. As soon as the kid said that the relays would be destroyed, my first thought was "um... what about the rest of the galaxy? The fleets at Earth and other people in other systems? The Quarrians just got Rannoch back only to never see it? Same with the Krogan and Tuarians. The Asari might see Thessia again because of how long they live, but even that's questionable."susanwb wrote...
I just finished the game last night, and having heard a lot of outrage about the endings, my hopes were not very high. That being said, I didn't find it nearly as awful as some players seem to have. But, I didn't think it was up to BW standard, either. The ending was kind of mediocre in my assessment. I did expect more from you guys. Here's what worked and didn't work for me:
On a whole, I did really enjoy playing the game. There were many moments that were perfectly executed - Garrus and Shepard shooting bottles over the Citadel, Kaidan's romance arc, Mordin curing the Genophage (I cried like a baby for brave, noble Mordin!!), Legion's sacrifice and Tali mourning him, even Anderson's death at the end. Couldn't have been better, IMHO.
But, then the game ends and instead of that mixture of elation, relief, grief and horror that I expected to feel, I mostly just felt confused. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what happened. That's not a good ending note. I had an EMS of over 6000 and chose to Destroy, so Shepard lived - or at least it's hinted that she lived, I don't actually know that for sure. Maybe nobody came to look for her body and she just expired there lonely and weak and hopeless. Who knows?
What happened to all those fleets Shepard brought to Earth after the relays blew up? The poor Turians and Quarians probably starved to death (no dextro food on Earth, you know). But what about the others? Did they all start working together to rebuild Earth? Did they try to get home somehow? Did any of my companions and friends and allies survive?
But all of that uncertainty I could live with, if only it weren't for this: why in the name of all that is holy did Joker take the Normandy and flee the battle? Why were they anywhere near the relay when it blew? This is just beyond baffling. I suppose that this scene is included so that if you choose Destroy and your EMS is low (so that Earth is destroyed) you are left with some kind of hopeful ending - at least Joker got out alive! But in the case where Earth is intact and Shepard still breathing, it makes not one bit of sense! And how did Garrus and Kaidan get on the Normandy anyway? One minute they're sprinting with me and Anderson towards the light, then they're gone? Huh? I just don't understand. It seems like, if you have a high enough EMS to save Earth, a different scene should play where instead of getting stranded in Jurassic Park, the Normandy comes to the Citadel to recover Shepard's body. First they find Anderson and the Illusive Man, then finally they find Shepard. If Shepard is dead (and yes, I'm perfectly fine with the potential of Shepard being dead, I didn't choose Destroy just to save her, but because the other options just sounded like vile lies)... anyway, if Shepard is dead, then they recover her body and we get a scene with the gathered survivors giving her a hero's burial. You see them wipe their eyes, straighten their shoulders, look each other in the eyes, nod, and turn back to the work of rebuilding. In mourning, yes, but moving forward with hope for the future. If Shepard is still alive, you get the same scene except that it's Anderson (and any other non-surviving friends) we are mourning, and Shepard is the one who turns our attention back to the work at hand.
All in all, I want to say that no, I didn't expect a "happy" ending to a story this terrifyingly harsh. I did, however, in the tradition of past Mass Effect games, expect a HOPEFUL ending. One that has closure and holds together logically. One where we see not only how much has been lost, but also how much has been saved. I got part of that with the cheering Alliance soldiers watching the Reapers crumble, but no closure when it comes to the characters I cared about. I got too much ambiguity... too many baffling unanswered questions, and not enough tying things together. Yeah, I just want to know what happened, you know? It's hard to feel the powerful emotions (both good and bad) of the Pyrrhic Victory when you don't know if you actually understand what you just experienced.
I chose Destroy as well (went back and did synthesis just to see it) and was glad to see Shepard take a breath. But then... black out? Really? And same question you had; how did Liara get back on Normandy? And why was Joker running? I could understand Joker running to save EDI, but EDI was on earth. And even if she wasn't, it's not like the final decision was being broadcast to the entire galaxy, much less outside that room.
As a romantic at heart, I want to know if my Shepard and Liara get to reunite. I honestly was expecting to see a wedding if the path chosen led to Shepard's survival. Even after getting turned into a baked potatoe by the Reaper at the end I expected closure like that. Or even a funeral like susanwb mentioned.
I can't say it's the worst ending I've ever seen to a game (thanks cod:mw2!), but I feel let down because I'm left with more questions than when I started. If there were going to be a Mass Effect 4, then cool. But BioWare has made it pretty clear (thus far) that there will not be another full installment of Shepard's story; only DLC. The ending, for what it is, is well done, though.
I would like to have seen the Synthesis choice result in Shepard's survival and reuniting with friends and loved ones, though. After all, that option isn't available without enough EMS.
Uncertainty about Shepard's fate with Destroy - cool.
Shepard "dies" with Control - cool.
Shepard "dies" with Synthesis - NOT cool. Due to this choice being an "unlockable path", it should be the "rainbows and flowers" ending where Shepard clearly lives and reunites with everyone.
#6944
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:08
Sorkatani Loki wrote...
Sydeno wrote...
Until then, don't say people who like it are more than the others... It's totally false...
As soon as you stop assuming there are more people who dislike the ending, sure.
I think we can agree there are enough people who dislike the ending for it to matter. We're glad you like it. Good for you. However there are many of us that actually care whether or not Bioware keeps the promises it has made to the fans (those who buy Bioware products, and therefore making Bioware's further existence possible).
#6945
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:10
As it stands right now, I am so displeased with the ending I will not be purchasing anymore Bioware products. All my choices in the game, gathering allies, essentially only factored into the end game as being a tally on a spreadsheet with no consequences in the ending sequence. The ending that did not factor any of decisions I had made up to that point. I felt it opened up more questions than it answered and it did not provide closure. Too much new information is provided with little context.
#6946
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:11
I think someone posting a message stating nothing more than "I'm OK with the actual state of things" or "Bioware go to hell" has not a lot to offer to this topic.
Modifié par Iconoclaste, 19 mars 2012 - 07:12 .
#6947
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:12
No matter what ending you get, it's abrupt with no look back at all the work Shepard's done for the galaxy. There isn't a 'here's what happened after that', except for the Normandy to crash land on some random planet. What planet did they land on, what happened to Palaven, to Thessia, to Earth, to Tuchanka, to Rannock, to Sur'Kesh? What about the geth, what about the reaper forces? Is there a clean up, do husks continue to run around? If the Mass Effect relays are destroyed no matter what, doesn't that wipe out all life in the galaxy?
I loved the game until the final choices. I felt like my three games, my comics, my novels, my Shepards - were all worthless. No matter your relationships, your friends, foes or allies - the universe is screwed and you don't even know what happens to it.
I'm not looking for sunshine and puppies, I'm just looking for closure. If everything is dead, I want to cry and I want to feel - not be left sitting there, wondering 'where's the rest?'.
#6948
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:14
Iconoclaste wrote...
The question at the origin of this forum is : where do we go from here?
I think someone posting a message stating nothing more than "I'm OK with the actual state of things" or "Bioware go to hell" has not a lot to offer to this topic.
That works for me. I'm sure there's a "Didn't YOU think the ending was good" thread, soooooo.
If Bioware made a thread specifically addressing what to do about the endings, it should be safe to assume they care a little bit, and that we aren't a tiny minority.
#6949
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:16
theoldludwigvan wrote...
Iconoclaste wrote...
The question at the origin of this forum is : where do we go from here?
I think someone posting a message stating nothing more than "I'm OK with the actual state of things" or "Bioware go to hell" has not a lot to offer to this topic.
That works for me. I'm sure there's a "Didn't YOU think the ending was good" thread, soooooo.
If Bioware made a thread specifically addressing what to do about the endings, it should be safe to assume they care a little bit, and that we aren't a tiny minority.
But where do we go from here? I think the indocrination theory (although not perfect) has the only chance of being fit into the story. At least I haven't heard any ideas that could be fit in without having to totally scrub the last 15 minutes.
#6950
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 07:17
Once inside it's crawling with Reapers, more fighting, get to the control room, fight the Illusive Man who turns into a Saren-like thing and work the controls. Or, agree to his plan of controlling the Reapers, in which case we get a Cerberus wins style ending with humans being big old space 'national socialists', perhaps with a renegade interrupt where you shoot one of your squadmates for arguing against this course of action.
If you kill TIM, Shep finds out that using the Crucible to destroy the reapers will cause an overload which will destroy it and the person inside. Can decide to leave team-mate behind to blow it up or send them off and do it himself/herself. LI may decide to stay. Perhaps if you did enough stuff 'right', Joker flies the Normandy into the Citadel and rescues you.
Or, s/he can try to take control of the Reapers himself/herself, leading to an immediately good, but longterm bad ending in which s/he gets indoctrinated.
Or, you know, anything over the indoctrination hallucinations we actually got.
Modifié par Vox Doom, 19 mars 2012 - 07:23 .




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