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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#7101
Leem_0001

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Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

ilComico wrote...

I have one question, but i'm not sure if it is OT:
Does anyone know what the leaked script endind included?

At this point I really want to know that


I second that - I have no idea what it was supposed to be.

And is this the same as the original outline of the trilogy that was put together by Drew KarpyshIcantspellhisname? If not, does anyone know what was supposed to happen in that. I heard ME2 was also radically different in that.


It was pretty much the same.

And Drew's ending had the Reapers trying to create a human reaper because it was the only way to stop the universe from being destroyed by the dark energy that powers the mass effect fields which is expanding at a stupidly fast rate.  Remember the star in ME2 that is older than it should be?  Yeah, that's what the reapers are trying to stop.

You could decide to let them go ahead with their plan or tell them no, that the young races would find another way to stop it.

A lot better, in my opinion, but I still prefer the idea that Reapers are simply harvesting to create more Reapers.


Thanks for the info, appreciate it. To clarify - the Reapers are taking time out from the cycle to stop this star that Tali spoke about in ME2? And the expansion of Dark Energy? Not sure how a human Reaper would do that. Still, sounds interesting and would like to see the idea fleshed out, but I'm with you, I prefer the Harvesting idea.

If only the synthetics weren't harvesting organics to protect them from synthetics. And Star Child was nowhere in sight lol


The original race who became Harbinger discovered that dark energy was expanding and would soon cause the universe to basically die.  They became Harbinger to try and slow down this process whilst looking for a solution.  There's more detail in there but the basic jist is that they are the ultimate Renegades, killing trillions to try to save the universe in the long run.

Apparently the human Reaper would have been the only thing that could actually have stopped it.


Again, thanks for this, it is really interesting to read and I would have loved to see it play out. Very interesting idea. It sounds as if the evolution of organic life somehow increases the expansion of Dark Energy. And, thinking about it, I got the 2 Disk version of ME1 where they have interviews, and one with Drew where he speaks about ME ultimately exploring theories around Dark Energy etc.

Would really like to learn more about his - here's hoping there is a way to find out more about it.

And then there was Starchild.

#7102
spartan3175

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Well, I'm not sure if this message will be read or even considered, but I feel an urge to say a few words.
First of all I would like to thank BioWare for all the work, all the efforts to give us something unforgettable they've done - I really appreciate this, so do a lot of fans and common players do. Really, thank every employee involved in this project.
But...Completing the ME3 I was shocked and trying to find a mere logical bonds between all of the 3 parts and the very ending of the game(I mean all of endings). Even though there are many arguments and facts that proves the nonsenseness of the endgame I think I found another major hole in the plot. Not that I'm proud of - just wnat to share my opinion and make some logical conclusions.
So, as we all remember in ME1 we found out that there was a mass relay on Ilos leading straight to the Citadel. To be short - it has been built by the Protheans in secret from the Reapers. They somehow succeded to prevent the Citadel from being a mass relay for Reapers etc. Shepard stops Saren and Sovereign, continues to insult the Council with the truth about the Reapers
(or lets them die:) ), ending dead in a space. Then Cerberus, then Collector base, etc etc. At last he's on the Citadel, trying to activate the Crucible. And suddenly some kind of a godlike entity appears like a piano in the bushes, like deus ex machina... And claims that Citadel is HIS home and the Reapers are his solutions. That's incredibly wierd. Why? Remember the Ilos. The Protheans, who made a backdoor to the Citadel, overwrote its protocols.... By the Force, he's an owner of the Citadel. Not sure if the Catalyst is creator, but still - he runs this place like Aria runs Afterlife on Omega and no one dares to fork with her! So how can this superior intellect just let a small team of cockroach-like lifeforms to change Citadels primary function???? It makes no sense!
I'd rather believe that Shepard is indoctrinated or drunk with the Rynkol or whatever, but that some godlike entity had dramatically screwed up.

P.S.: Copied this message to the different threads just to be sure that it will be read :))))))
P.P.S.: Sorry for my bad English - I had no practice in it for a couple of years.)

#7103
Laerni

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I have been a BIOWARE fan since they began and I loved ME3... well, right up until the last 15 or 20 minutes when it was like an alternate reality. It did not feel like a fitting conclusion to my shep's story. It just felt wrong, like I had been given a 95% dream game and then basically told that my decisions, relationships and the character of shep didn't matter at all, in fact nothing mattered. I do trust you BIOWARE I just wish you would tell us all what is going on, whether that involves having something up your sleeve or whether your creativity and ingenuity has been cramped by EA. I have loved playing Mass Effect and replayed all 3 games more than once. The story was excellent up to the beam... there are no words... :/ Please tell us what is going on and what we can or can't expect....

#7104
Yorgsogoth

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Leem_0001 wrote...

Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

ilComico wrote...

I have one question, but i'm not sure if it is OT:
Does anyone know what the leaked script endind included?

At this point I really want to know that


I second that - I have no idea what it was supposed to be.

And is this the same as the original outline of the trilogy that was put together by Drew KarpyshIcantspellhisname? If not, does anyone know what was supposed to happen in that. I heard ME2 was also radically different in that.


It was pretty much the same.

And Drew's ending had the Reapers trying to create a human reaper because it was the only way to stop the universe from being destroyed by the dark energy that powers the mass effect fields which is expanding at a stupidly fast rate.  Remember the star in ME2 that is older than it should be?  Yeah, that's what the reapers are trying to stop.

You could decide to let them go ahead with their plan or tell them no, that the young races would find another way to stop it.

A lot better, in my opinion, but I still prefer the idea that Reapers are simply harvesting to create more Reapers.


Thanks for the info, appreciate it. To clarify - the Reapers are taking time out from the cycle to stop this star that Tali spoke about in ME2? And the expansion of Dark Energy? Not sure how a human Reaper would do that. Still, sounds interesting and would like to see the idea fleshed out, but I'm with you, I prefer the Harvesting idea.

If only the synthetics weren't harvesting organics to protect them from synthetics. And Star Child was nowhere in sight lol


The original race who became Harbinger discovered that dark energy was expanding and would soon cause the universe to basically die.  They became Harbinger to try and slow down this process whilst looking for a solution.  There's more detail in there but the basic jist is that they are the ultimate Renegades, killing trillions to try to save the universe in the long run.

Apparently the human Reaper would have been the only thing that could actually have stopped it.


Again, thanks for this, it is really interesting to read and I would have loved to see it play out. Very interesting idea. It sounds as if the evolution of organic life somehow increases the expansion of Dark Energy. And, thinking about it, I got the 2 Disk version of ME1 where they have interviews, and one with Drew where he speaks about ME ultimately exploring theories around Dark Energy etc.

Would really like to learn more about his - here's hoping there is a way to find out more about it.

And then there was Starchild.


Maybe its powered by dark enegy?

#7105
Leem_0001

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Yorgsogoth wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

ilComico wrote...

I have one question, but i'm not sure if it is OT:
Does anyone know what the leaked script endind included?

At this point I really want to know that


I second that - I have no idea what it was supposed to be.

And is this the same as the original outline of the trilogy that was put together by Drew KarpyshIcantspellhisname? If not, does anyone know what was supposed to happen in that. I heard ME2 was also radically different in that.


It was pretty much the same.

And Drew's ending had the Reapers trying to create a human reaper because it was the only way to stop the universe from being destroyed by the dark energy that powers the mass effect fields which is expanding at a stupidly fast rate.  Remember the star in ME2 that is older than it should be?  Yeah, that's what the reapers are trying to stop.

You could decide to let them go ahead with their plan or tell them no, that the young races would find another way to stop it.

A lot better, in my opinion, but I still prefer the idea that Reapers are simply harvesting to create more Reapers.


Thanks for the info, appreciate it. To clarify - the Reapers are taking time out from the cycle to stop this star that Tali spoke about in ME2? And the expansion of Dark Energy? Not sure how a human Reaper would do that. Still, sounds interesting and would like to see the idea fleshed out, but I'm with you, I prefer the Harvesting idea.

If only the synthetics weren't harvesting organics to protect them from synthetics. And Star Child was nowhere in sight lol


The original race who became Harbinger discovered that dark energy was expanding and would soon cause the universe to basically die.  They became Harbinger to try and slow down this process whilst looking for a solution.  There's more detail in there but the basic jist is that they are the ultimate Renegades, killing trillions to try to save the universe in the long run.

Apparently the human Reaper would have been the only thing that could actually have stopped it.


Again, thanks for this, it is really interesting to read and I would have loved to see it play out. Very interesting idea. It sounds as if the evolution of organic life somehow increases the expansion of Dark Energy. And, thinking about it, I got the 2 Disk version of ME1 where they have interviews, and one with Drew where he speaks about ME ultimately exploring theories around Dark Energy etc.

Would really like to learn more about his - here's hoping there is a way to find out more about it.

And then there was Starchild.


Maybe its powered by dark enegy?


Ha - Darkstarchild.

Catchy!

#7106
alx119

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McGrzegorz wrote...

Aravius wrote...

wolfeye7 wrote...

I am sure this link has already been posted, but please, this man deserves your attention: www.youtube.com/watch

Bioware - HIRE THIS MAN! I will pay good money for this DLC!


If something along this line would have happened, ME3 would have been stellar. Now I'm left with an excellent game, where the last 10 minutes ruin it for me.

To say the endings were disappointing, does not even describe it in words for me.


At first I thought people are overreacting about the ending so I just stayed silent and enjoy my adventure with ME3. Then I hit the end and…

The game is GREAT up to the final 20 minutes… Then all the logic and legacy of ME1 and ME2 is lost…
I'm really sad that whole idea of Dark Matter and Dark Energy was abandoned, choices during ME1/ME2 don't really matter...

I could write another lengthy post but I think all I wanted to say you can find in the video (link above)…

Exactly what I felt, I thought people were overreacting. That Shepard would die in battle or something, in an epic way, maybe have Shep and his squad taken down, and then fade to a narrator that says "Thanks to Shepard's efforts the Crucible was finished and the Reaper thread was no more blabla" or "Although Shepard tried he could not save the galaxy blabla" depending on how many war assets and how you managed everything altogether. 

Then well, I got that :x 

#7107
Yorgsogoth

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Leem_0001 wrote...

Yorgsogoth wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

ilComico wrote...

I have one question, but i'm not sure if it is OT:
Does anyone know what the leaked script endind included?

At this point I really want to know that


I second that - I have no idea what it was supposed to be.

And is this the same as the original outline of the trilogy that was put together by Drew KarpyshIcantspellhisname? If not, does anyone know what was supposed to happen in that. I heard ME2 was also radically different in that.


It was pretty much the same.

And Drew's ending had the Reapers trying to create a human reaper because it was the only way to stop the universe from being destroyed by the dark energy that powers the mass effect fields which is expanding at a stupidly fast rate.  Remember the star in ME2 that is older than it should be?  Yeah, that's what the reapers are trying to stop.

You could decide to let them go ahead with their plan or tell them no, that the young races would find another way to stop it.

A lot better, in my opinion, but I still prefer the idea that Reapers are simply harvesting to create more Reapers.


Thanks for the info, appreciate it. To clarify - the Reapers are taking time out from the cycle to stop this star that Tali spoke about in ME2? And the expansion of Dark Energy? Not sure how a human Reaper would do that. Still, sounds interesting and would like to see the idea fleshed out, but I'm with you, I prefer the Harvesting idea.

If only the synthetics weren't harvesting organics to protect them from synthetics. And Star Child was nowhere in sight lol


The original race who became Harbinger discovered that dark energy was expanding and would soon cause the universe to basically die.  They became Harbinger to try and slow down this process whilst looking for a solution.  There's more detail in there but the basic jist is that they are the ultimate Renegades, killing trillions to try to save the universe in the long run.

Apparently the human Reaper would have been the only thing that could actually have stopped it.


Again, thanks for this, it is really interesting to read and I would have loved to see it play out. Very interesting idea. It sounds as if the evolution of organic life somehow increases the expansion of Dark Energy. And, thinking about it, I got the 2 Disk version of ME1 where they have interviews, and one with Drew where he speaks about ME ultimately exploring theories around Dark Energy etc.

Would really like to learn more about his - here's hoping there is a way to find out more about it.

And then there was Starchild.


Maybe its powered by dark enegy?


Ha - Darkstarchild.

Catchy!


Actually the darkchild is a genius, he makes the destroy ending feel like your the ultimate evil and in the other 2 endings the geth are the only race still on there feet, so they WILL inherite the galaxy, just like the catalyst planned.

#7108
Vosztok

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..at the Citadell..

CH: Anderson.. Stay with me. We have done it! We finished ME3!
A: Well done.. I'am .. proud.. of you.. son..
CH: Thank You sir..
A: But the end.. is crap..
CH: Anderson?


Hold the line!

#7109
paercebal

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What I loved about the ending?

I already wrote I loved all ME3 but the ending, so now, I'll speak about the ending, what I believe to be good, and what I believe to be bad.

AFTER THE EXPLOSION (GOOD)

Harbinger did laze the whole area. Shepard wakes up, groggy, and tumbles around. The fact I can't aim deepens the immersion: Shepard was heavily, if not fatally, wounded. Chances of success are... slim. The few enemies I see before entering the beam are easily dispatched for a weakned Shepard, but then, they would have been wounded, too, so... The fact the gun has no ammunition limit is secondary (as long as the story is good). Shepard is barely conscious, so it makes sense he/she doesn't bother to look at that.

In (almost) the same way, no biotics. Too bad for an Adept. Again, this deepens immersion: Shepard can't concentrate. (An botched attempt at a singularity or something would have been cool, to show how weak Shepard was).

I almost recognized Ashley, that is, a body with blue armor, dead, near the beam. 1st victim... Where is IDE? Because, yes, IDE did come with me the whole mission on earth (I loved combine her Incinerate with my Shield Drain... Most effective against Marauders).

CITADEL ENTRANCE (GOOD)

Apparently, the humans were processed there. I'm almost not surprised to hear Anderson is there, to. Could he have been sent to another chamber? Why not. The problem is that the layout doesn't seem to support that, but at that moment, I don't really care: Shepard is wounded, but he/she still tries to reach whatever point inside the Citadel to open the arms (I don't even know how he/she hopes to do that). A little company is not unwelcome.

THE ILLUSIVE MAN (GOOD)



There was the moment I thought everything had failed. TIM was there, and not wounded. Deeply indoctrinated, Ok, but mostly healthy, and apparently able to yield some of the Reapers' control powers. This bothers me, as indoctrination was not supposed to be so fast as utterly dominate/control the subjects, even weakened ones.

But still, I go with it: Shepard and Anderson are wounded (I'm now realizing how much of Shepard's armor have been teared out), and still, they fight for control. I try all Paragon's answers but the last one: TIM is becoming annoying so I lose patience, and this is my way to tell "f*ck off". Anderson is wounded by my own gun, and somehow in the confusion and discussion, I succeed in killing TIM. Cool.

The arms open, Shepard and Anderson sit together. The scene is very powerful, and I feel they both will die, soon. At that moment, any cheezy fiction would have sent some Kodiak with Joker on board yelling "We found them!!!", but this isn't cheey fiction. The music is very sad. The theme is loss.

I'm now accepting that, with all the DLC I bought for ME1 and ME2 (that is, all), and all the missions I did in ME1, ME2 and ME3, that is 99%, I have maxed out the success of my Shepard (without Multiplayer, of course). And still, I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact the victory over the Reapers outside will come alongside the slow agony of Anderson and Shepard inside.

The scene is powerful, and I wonder what will happen when they'll find Anderson and Shepard's bodies, side-by-side...

Then Hackett calls.

????

AFTER THE ILLUSIVE MAN (BAD)





Either the writers came up with some surprise event in the end, I feel this is not going to get better. Shepard falls unconscious on some platform, and is awakened by some ghost child.

"Hello there," I mutter, remembering Obi Wan's catch phrase. Seriously, what's that???

The child starts to speak, some kind of nonsense. Apparently, he is the omniscient/omnipotent controller of the Reapers, and is destroying biological civilization on account of biological DNA.

The ghost child becomes therefore my first ennemy on my list. Shepard went through the Galaxy trying to put people together, and even succeeded in bringing back the Rachni, the Krogan, and even make the Quarians and Geth reach a tentative peace, and that mongrel of a ghost is speaking about synthetics vs. organics as the only and only one conflict in this galaxy, justifying the Reaping because, hey, as his creators were not able to have peace, they decided no one could reach it.

The arrogance and enormity of the assertion is humbling. Apparently, hundreds of thousand years alone organizing genocides doesn't help keep one mind's sane.

So I think about the journalist. You know, the one I hit, three times, once per episode. She was so arrangant, so stupid, I had to make that Renegade thing. And I want to do the same to the ghost child. And I wait for the opportunity to tell him to f*ck off, even if it could kill my Shepard. Or to strike that thing. Or anything that could express my disagreement with its own delirium.

But I don't have that.

This is were the suspension of disbelief explode: Did I play all those hours/days on ME1, 2 and 3, what I have is some kind of "RPG from the 80's" three choices, none making sense whastoever:

1. Destroy all the synthetics. WTF??? Where in this universe do you get the power to destroy every synthetic AI without touching the VI, or even the simple computers? And how the destruction of the red "thing" will both destroy the ghost child, the reapers and the AIs? Is this space magic ? Isn't there a simple solution to kill the ghost child only? How did it became tied up with IDE or the geths? This is ridiculous.

2. Control the Reapers. Ok, it will kill me. But... How can I control the Reapers if it kills me? I guess Shepard is mortally wounded, Ok, but even then, this doesn't make sense. Unless it was promising Shepard he/she would become the Emperor/Empress of the Galaxy and that he/she would rule unchallenged with his/her apprentice, Darth Joker?... Er... Did I miss something?

3. Synthesis: Ok, space magic again. This time, with the right reagents and the right incantations, the spell could work and mix together organics and synthetics. I already mentionned that destroying hatred and xenophobia with absolute conformism wasn't a solution, so that anti-solution seems so wrong finally it's worthy of the thing that spawned it. The ghost child is really irritating, and there is no way I can smack its ghostly face. Damn...

THE FLEEING NORMANDY




Ok... So apparently, for a reason I can't imagine, Joker fled with the Normandy. Thanks for the vote of confidence, bones! So apparently, the Normandy is navigating between two mass relays, and followed  by the colored explosion.

Ok, next image, the Normandy did crash one some planet. In one of the endings, Everything organic has now some layer of electronics on it. Gross... I guess the unification on the DNA level didn't succeeded so well...

Oooh... IDE was on the Normandy (in the Synthesis end). Good for her, because I believed her to be dead near the beam... Ok, so how come the Normandy did succeed to flee the battle, after taking IDE back on board I'm still wondering. This was a very fast ship, indeed. To bad the Normandy (and IDE's brain) crashed on some planet.

Oooh, now Liara is there too. It's cool because I specifically did not take her in my team because I feared she would die while my Shepard would survive. I guess it's Ok... The Protean is there, too, but then, who cares...

POST CREDITS





The credits were cool, but then, at the end, some strange scene with some adult talking to a child. I'm just hoping this is not the Ghost Child. So the old man is promising more stories about Shepard... Cool...

I'm feeling left out.

I'm realizing I'm looking at the last minutes of Mass Effect with a dumb expression on my face, so powerful I fear it will remain there. I'm still trying to compile what I saw since the Ghost Child tried to frame me into some spiritual discussion about his holy mission. And no, it doesn't make sense.

POST IMPRESSION






I'm not a writer. I'm not an author. I'm just a random software engineer.

But I have some years (decades?) of tabletop roleplaying as a master/storyteller behind me, and what I see there is either a failed attempt at some gratuitously spritual explanation with a massive dose of deus ex maquina, or just the product of a burnt-out author overdosing on caffeine who spat something, anything if it could get him/her some sleep.

Seriously, I can't even remember the last time I tried this kind of heist on my players.

So I feel somewhat betrayed, and mostly hugely disappointed because what I consider the most impressive sci fi trilogie of all times (did you say "alternative"? Star What? Nonsense...) ends in a way so dumb it spoils the whole universe.

I'm not even writing about the lack of closure (no, some happy random soldiers, a crashed Normandy and some old guy and his nephew are not closure). The closest closure I had were the photos of Joker, Anderson and Love Interest (and the music... Awesome...).

The point is: I don't know your plans about a possible "Endings" DLC, and seriously, I'm now beyond that. I have that "Collector Edition" of Mass Effect sitting near my console, and I'm seriously wondering about either selling the whole trilogy, or let it dies there hoping that someday, my disappointment will have decreased enough for me to play again (and stopping the game just before the Ghost Child... I'm no masochist).

Fact is, I contacted my friends, telling them exactly WHERE to stop to avoid the end. I was the most vocal proponent of your games (I even offered ME, DA and Jade Empire to 3 of my friends, just because I knew they would love them), and the day I arrived at work after finishing the game, my co-workers, which were joking about the fact they wouldn't see me for weeks understood something was wrong with the game. I didn't have to tell them. And still tried to tell them the ME trilogy was the best game I ever player, but even that is spoiled by the fact I must add at the end "but the 10 last minutes are so dumb I can't express it".

You just messed up the whole Mass Effect trilogy (and possibly universe) with an ending I could have written on less than four hours for a Toons RPG.

The way is not important, but I guess the Mass Effect franchise should have a real ending for Shepard's trilogy. Write a book. Do a DLC. Make a fanfiction, or some kind of "You're the hero" visual novel game fiction. Anything, but don't let your game universe go the DragonLance way (you know, the way T. Hickman and M. Weis just f*cked up their world because they had no creative control on it).

As far as I am concerned, the current ending won't be my end of Mass Effect. I was thinking about some tabletop RPG based on it, and should it go all the way, don't doubt the "multicolored end" won't be part of it.

Regards,

P.S.: We still love you. If we didn't, we wouldn't have bothered to tell you so much.
P.P.S.: One day, one of my managers will ask me "what is the strange N7 logo you have on your corporate email signature?" This will be awkward...
:-)

#7110
Lord_Durin

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ramenbito wrote...

Lord_Durin wrote...

Ok, i think we need some more happy thoughts here. My favourite part:

Grunt. Lives.

That is all.


He lives and he is hungry. Love that part when he comes all bloody and asks for food. Made me all teary eyed, Mama Shep was proud of him at that moment.


Same here. grunt was like a war-child to my shepard (if releasing him from the pod wasn't a birth metaphore i dont know what is) and watching him run off like that made me so proud and sad at the same time. With everyone else sacrificing themselves to stop the reapers, watching him crawl out of the cave covered in god-knows-whose blood actually gave me some hope, basically "if he can beat the odds again, why cant i?"

#7111
Guest_Paulomedi_*

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PLEASE, WATCH THIS:

www.youtube.com/watch

this is the best review of Mass Effect, and why the third installment, story-wise, was not so good, and the endings where horrible.


PLease people, watch this, and understand why this game...lacks.

#7112
Vox Doom

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Archonsg wrote...

I would accept the indoctrination theory except for two things. First is game / plot centric and that is as is, ALL you are given are three choices. All 3 choices involves Shepard surrendering his will, he blindly accepts the choices given to him. I am sorry, but if you want to buy into this theory you have to then accept that Shepard, than, alive or not Shepard is gone. There was no fourth choice.

The fact is, Bioware gave us such a craptastic ending, even one that is so convoluted as the Indoctrination Theory is preferred. But you guys have to realize that they still would have to "re-write" the whole London thing and now come up with how to deal with a compromised (and in my opinion) unplayable Shepard. Because he Surrendered his will. 
Even if they were to add a "fourth" option via DLC, this still does not negate the fact that Shepard is compromised and now is not fit to remain in the role of the lead or playable character since his EVERY action thereafter is in question.

Better that since Bioware needs to re-write London anyways, for them to just come clean and say "we were wrong and FUBAR the ending, here's a new one where Shepard's choices counts, your companions count, your deeds and actions count and by god, an epilogue worthy of the epic that the Mass Effect series is, an epilogue to say "This was / is your Shepard and his/her achievements, thank you for playing and supporting the series." Asking for less, and accepting the current ending in any form is a disservice to yourself and those who see this for what it is, an incomplete product.


How is sticking to Shepard's whole "Got to destroy the reapers" code giving up free will?

#7113
Changonauta

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Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Vox Doom wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

ilComico wrote...

I have one question, but i'm not sure if it is OT:
Does anyone know what the leaked script endind included?

At this point I really want to know that


I second that - I have no idea what it was supposed to be.

And is this the same as the original outline of the trilogy that was put together by Drew KarpyshIcantspellhisname? If not, does anyone know what was supposed to happen in that. I heard ME2 was also radically different in that.


It was pretty much the same.

And Drew's ending had the Reapers trying to create a human reaper because it was the only way to stop the universe from being destroyed by the dark energy that powers the mass effect fields which is expanding at a stupidly fast rate.  Remember the star in ME2 that is older than it should be?  Yeah, that's what the reapers are trying to stop.

You could decide to let them go ahead with their plan or tell them no, that the young races would find another way to stop it.

A lot better, in my opinion, but I still prefer the idea that Reapers are simply harvesting to create more Reapers.


Thanks for the info, appreciate it. To clarify - the Reapers are taking time out from the cycle to stop this star that Tali spoke about in ME2? And the expansion of Dark Energy? Not sure how a human Reaper would do that. Still, sounds interesting and would like to see the idea fleshed out, but I'm with you, I prefer the Harvesting idea.

If only the synthetics weren't harvesting organics to protect them from synthetics. And Star Child was nowhere in sight lol


The original race who became Harbinger discovered that dark energy was expanding and would soon cause the universe to basically die.  They became Harbinger to try and slow down this process whilst looking for a solution.  There's more detail in there but the basic jist is that they are the ultimate Renegades, killing trillions to try to save the universe in the long run.

Apparently the human Reaper would have been the only thing that could actually have stopped it.


altough (and please dont crucify me for saying this) liked the endings (yes, they should have been more extensive and conclusive) the leaked script sounds actually better:?:(

#7114
jeweledleah

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No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
George S. Patton

I don't care if some of you want your Shepards to heroically die. you should keep that option. but i wish you would all stop trying to keep it the only option and especially stop, just stop claiming realism as your proof of why it should be so. self sacrifice is not more realistic then living for your victory and walking away into the sunset is.

#7115
Davinius Underwood

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Laerni wrote...

I have been a BIOWARE fan since they began and I loved ME3... well, right up until the last 15 or 20 minutes when it was like an alternate reality. It did not feel like a fitting conclusion to my shep's story. It just felt wrong, like I had been given a 95% dream game and then basically told that my decisions, relationships and the character of shep didn't matter at all, in fact nothing mattered. I do trust you BIOWARE I just wish you would tell us all what is going on, whether that involves having something up your sleeve or whether your creativity and ingenuity has been cramped by EA. I have loved playing Mass Effect and replayed all 3 games more than once. The story was excellent up to the beam... there are no words... :/ Please tell us what is going on and what we can or can't expect....


+1 this i feel exactly the same way, good post!

#7116
jeweledleah

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Lord_Durin wrote...

ramenbito wrote...

Lord_Durin wrote...

Ok, i think we need some more happy thoughts here. My favourite part:

Grunt. Lives.

That is all.


He lives and he is hungry. Love that part when he comes all bloody and asks for food. Made me all teary eyed, Mama Shep was proud of him at that moment.


Same here. grunt was like a war-child to my shepard (if releasing him from the pod wasn't a birth metaphore i dont know what is) and watching him run off like that made me so proud and sad at the same time. With everyone else sacrificing themselves to stop the reapers, watching him crawl out of the cave covered in god-knows-whose blood actually gave me some hope, basically "if he can beat the odds again, why cant i?"


I personaly loved that part as well - it was damn awesome.  he did what he had to do and lived to tell the tail about it. now THATS heroic.

#7117
gormander

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Mass effect 3 was a fantastic game even liked the part with you & anderson but after that was downhill the 3 endings were basicly green blast, blue blast or red blast from the mass relays 95% of the game is good but the endings weren't endings. I would seriously pay for DLC that fixed it just so could go wow thats mass effect done instead of being confused why the endings are like that!!!

#7118
theoldludwigvan

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Vox Doom wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

I would accept the indoctrination theory except for two things. First is game / plot centric and that is as is, ALL you are given are three choices. All 3 choices involves Shepard surrendering his will, he blindly accepts the choices given to him. I am sorry, but if you want to buy into this theory you have to then accept that Shepard, than, alive or not Shepard is gone. There was no fourth choice.

The fact is, Bioware gave us such a craptastic ending, even one that is so convoluted as the Indoctrination Theory is preferred. But you guys have to realize that they still would have to "re-write" the whole London thing and now come up with how to deal with a compromised (and in my opinion) unplayable Shepard. Because he Surrendered his will. 
Even if they were to add a "fourth" option via DLC, this still does not negate the fact that Shepard is compromised and now is not fit to remain in the role of the lead or playable character since his EVERY action thereafter is in question.

Better that since Bioware needs to re-write London anyways, for them to just come clean and say "we were wrong and FUBAR the ending, here's a new one where Shepard's choices counts, your companions count, your deeds and actions count and by god, an epilogue worthy of the epic that the Mass Effect series is, an epilogue to say "This was / is your Shepard and his/her achievements, thank you for playing and supporting the series." Asking for less, and accepting the current ending in any form is a disservice to yourself and those who see this for what it is, an incomplete product.


How is sticking to Shepard's whole "Got to destroy the reapers" code giving up free will?


Yeah, the result of the indoc. theory would be that destruction is the only choice to continue. No giving up free will, unless you want a fourth option. But shep doesnt really get 4th options. He usually has 2: red or blue.

#7119
chkchkchk

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paercebal wrote...

But I have some years (decades?) of tabletop roleplaying as a master/storyteller behind me, and what I see there is either a failed attempt at some gratuitously spritual explanation with a massive dose of deus ex maquina, or just the product of a burnt-out author overdosing on caffeine who spat something, anything if it could get him/her some sleep.

Seriously, I can't even remember the last time I tried this kind of heist on my players.

This is pretty much what I was thinking earlier today.  In my tabletop group I had a reputation as someone who liked bizarre twists, so the one time I was the storyteller the players actually warned me not to pull something like this.  People invest a lot of time in their characters and they want closure.  They're not playing to get an "art house" ending out of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

#7120
Yorgsogoth

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theoldludwigvan wrote...

Vox Doom wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

I would accept the indoctrination theory except for two things. First is game / plot centric and that is as is, ALL you are given are three choices. All 3 choices involves Shepard surrendering his will, he blindly accepts the choices given to him. I am sorry, but if you want to buy into this theory you have to then accept that Shepard, than, alive or not Shepard is gone. There was no fourth choice.

The fact is, Bioware gave us such a craptastic ending, even one that is so convoluted as the Indoctrination Theory is preferred. But you guys have to realize that they still would have to "re-write" the whole London thing and now come up with how to deal with a compromised (and in my opinion) unplayable Shepard. Because he Surrendered his will. 
Even if they were to add a "fourth" option via DLC, this still does not negate the fact that Shepard is compromised and now is not fit to remain in the role of the lead or playable character since his EVERY action thereafter is in question.

Better that since Bioware needs to re-write London anyways, for them to just come clean and say "we were wrong and FUBAR the ending, here's a new one where Shepard's choices counts, your companions count, your deeds and actions count and by god, an epilogue worthy of the epic that the Mass Effect series is, an epilogue to say "This was / is your Shepard and his/her achievements, thank you for playing and supporting the series." Asking for less, and accepting the current ending in any form is a disservice to yourself and those who see this for what it is, an incomplete product.


How is sticking to Shepard's whole "Got to destroy the reapers" code giving up free will?


Yeah, the result of the indoc. theory would be that destruction is the only choice to continue. No giving up free will, unless you want a fourth option. But shep doesnt really get 4th options. He usually has 2: red or blue.


But aren't we basicly fighting for what would be an ultra-violet option?

#7121
bloodstone2007

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One thing I did notice is that I expected that afterwards the Quarians /Geth would become a very powerful force in the galaxy. They are the only one with a very large fleet and AI's that can help the build more. Close second would be the humans with EDI, who asked about the functions of an AI. I was reminded of a series, by Frederik Pohl. It talks about AI's . where as that series of books was epic...Mass Effect 3's ending didn't even come close to its epic potential. I also wanted some closure with the elusive man and him in the dream sequence, was laughable. I mean really, no one notice the citadel got moved or change location. Really!?

#7122
Silrian

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I'm fairly convinced of the indoctrination theory, simply because the parallel between Shepard waking up and the destroy option (which, according to the Catalyst clearly should've destroyed Shepard, Shepard being a synthetic according to him) is not a theoretical argument, but a simple in game fact (or a ridiculous blatent contradiction). So I actually think Bioware would have one hell of a hard time explaining the rubble scene without to some degree disassociating the truth from what citadel boy states.
However, though I don't suspect it, I'd dread bioware implementing the indoctrination theory because the fans came up with it. No matter how bad any ending is, will be, or turned out to be, no matter how many people are angry about any ending, I'd really be disappointed if bioware gave the series a fan-written ending. That would diminish the art that is the ME trilogy completely to me.

Also, on a sidenote, I found it very peculiar how Shepard was raised to the catalyst just AFTER he passed out. I wondered that maybe that was the actual point the reality is lost to him after the black interference on the screen during the TIM talk. Also, this is the first time Shepard himself encounters an indoctrinated living person if I'm not mistaken. Maybe that has a spreading effect. Furthermore, I'd find it more credible if it's the Catalyst that indoctrinated him, not a lethal beam from Harbinger (since when can weapon beams indoctrinate someone?). The only problem with this last thing is that it can't explain Shepard waking up on earth, if that rubble was indeed earth...

And lastly, why was Shepard's armor blue? And not his trademark black/silverish armor?

Edit: I'm an idiot, Shep has encountered plenty of other indoctrinated people before, sorry about that.

Modifié par Silrian, 19 mars 2012 - 10:21 .


#7123
vandoug

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alx119 wrote...

vandoug wrote...

I like the ending BW implemented in ME3. The main course of ME trilogy is about how Shepard founds out the Reaper threat, strives along the way, and finally ends the 50000 year civilization extinction cycle. The current ending closes it up nicely in this regard. The only improvement I can think of is to add another option to the end: a conditioned Peace/Coexistence, which is suggested by Shepard rather than the Catalyst. Doing so allows Shepard to challenge the Catalyst's mindset, and prove his theory about chaos is unsound as creators and "createes" do not necessarily have inherent fundamental contradictions. This option perfectly fits Shepard's character - a warrior against the fate. Of course, it has to have something to do with the Crucible as it's the main tool to end the crisis. That's where the condition part can fit in.

I also think the mass relays destruction part is a nice touch to the ending. Think about it: Such an epic feat - ending the 50000 year civilizations extinction cycle demands such price. It's totally reasonable and acceptable. Don't forget, giving some time, civilizations will reconnect themselves by any means for sure.


Except in arrival we were shown how destroying a Mass Relay pretty much destroys the entire system. Which makes the casualties too high to repopulate or survive. Not to mention, pretty much all life lived near Relays :x 


Then I guess younger civilizations away from the relays will have better chances than the older ones such as human race in solar system. But I still believe that in 50000 years, the new and the survived old (if any) can advance greater and further than the stage at every end of the extinction cycle. 

Modifié par vandoug, 19 mars 2012 - 10:29 .


#7124
tkdrobert

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I don't think the ending was bad. I think it was a bold choice.  Shepard made the ultimate sacrifice to save
the Galaxy, which he was always prepared to do. 
Wars rarely have a pretty, perfect ending.   Sometimes no matter what choices you make,
you can't have the outcome you want. That's life.  Shepard did what he set out to do. He brought
the Galaxy together and defeated the Reapers in the end.   I’m not saying the ending was awesome, but it
wasn’t as bad as some of the nerd rage is making it out to be either.

My favorite part was rekindling my romance with Ashley even if it was short lived.  Finding Ashley and Tali drunk in the lounge was pretty funny…there were many cool moments.

Modifié par tkdrobert, 19 mars 2012 - 10:21 .


#7125
Silrian

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vandoug wrote...

alx119 wrote...

vandoug wrote...

I like the ending BW implemented in ME3. The main course of ME trilogy is about how Shepard founds out the Reaper threat, strives along the way, and finally ends the 50000 year civilization extinction cycle. The current ending closes it up nicely in this regard. The only improvement I can think of is to add another option to the end: a conditioned Peace/Coexistence, which is suggested by Shepard rather than the Catalyst. Doing so allows Shepard to challenge the Catalyst's mindset, and prove his theory about chaos is unsound as creators and "createes" do not necessarily have inherent fundamental contradictions. This option perfectly fits Shepard's character - a warrior against the fate. Of course, it has to have something to do with the Crucible as it's the main tool to end the crisis. That's where the condition part can fit in.

I also think the mass relays destruction part is a nice touch to the ending. Think about it: Such an epic feat - ending the 50000 year civilizations extinction cycle demands such price. It's totally reasonable and acceptable. Don't forget, giving some time, civilizations will reconnect themselves by any means for sure.


Except in arrival we were shown how destroying a Mass Relay pretty much destroys the entire system. Which makes the casualties too high to repopulate or survive. Not to mention, pretty much all life lived near Relays :x 


Then I guess younger civilizations away from the relays will have better chances than older ones like human race in solar system. But I still believe that in 50000 years, the new and the old can advance greater and further than the stage at every end of the extinction cycle. 



This was probably stated before but to make a comparison: if you throw a pc out of your window it makes a lot more of a mess than when there's a signal that basically shuts the thing down irrepairably. I got the idea the destruction of the relays wasn't just an explosion similar to colliding a Relay with an astroid....

And I for one do think the Mass Effect trilogy ending with the destruction of the Mass Relays ( as a consequence of destroying the ones who built them) a fitting plotpoint. Though kindof depressing in a way.