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[Bearddob]

So I finished the game and felt rather let down. Long before the game ended I should add. I attempted several times to write a well thought out and persuasive post. Failing horribly I came across this short bit of genius that summed up my emotional baggage rather nicely.




I think I can let the series go now ... not that I had much choice.

Thanks.

Modifié par Bearddob, 20 mars 2012 - 03:57 .

[tiger_wsquared]

THECRAZYSTUD wrote...

InLoveWithTaliZorah wrote...

My Experience with the ending to Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect Series:
I disliked the ghost child but was willing to forgive Bioware for that because it seemed at the time I was playing it that Bioware was going for a more Metaphysical ending which I could understand. I accepted that I would die if I chose the paragon or renegade choice which seemed like an inevitable end to a great series. However, the word "inevitable" contradicts everything the Mass Effect series stands for. Nothing is inevitable. There is always a choice. The fact that Bioware chose to create a finale that broke the principles of the game was disturbing but I forgave them for that at the time. After I took control of the Reapers on my playthrough however, the ending went downhill from there.
Why was the Normandy fleeing and leaving me to die? Joker would never do that!
How did Tali and Garrus get onto the Normandy? They were with me when Harbinger shot me with its LASER. I thought they were dead. They would never leave me behind. I romanced Tali for goodness sakes. That ending where the Normandy crashed onto the tropical planet and all of the mass relays exploded was disgusting. Everyone effectively died. Tali would most likely die of infection in a tropical environment where there are more microorganisms than in any other climate. Garrus would die of starvation, exposure, or maybe old age, and Joker would as well. And then the rest of the Armada that was left on Earth, now stranded there because there are no mass relays, will eventually die off as well due to infighting and lack of resources. If you say that the ships have FTL capabilities and can still travel to distant systems, and you say that the explosions of the Mass Relays didn't kill everything, then what was so bad about sending that asteroid into the Alpha Relay in the Arrival DLC for ME2? According to this proposed logic, nothing bad would have happened, only an increase in travel time between the systems. No big deal. But that didn't happen in the Arrival DLC. The whole system was either cut off or killed by the exploding Mass Relay. That happened to every system in the end of ME3. And you die. And your love interest and friends die.
With that ending, I could not forgive Bioware for creating this God Child and consequently breaking the lore and the whole point of the first game. The God Child could have just sent the reapers through the Citadel without Saren or any help.
With that ending, I inevitably reloaded those last 15 minutes and chose the neutral option next to see what would happen. The child did not say that I would die in this choice but that happened anyway.
I moved on to the Renegade choice and received the same outcome with the exception of the 10 seconds of seeing a piece of N7 armor move as if someone was breathing while under rubble. Not interesting at all unless Bioware intends to pursue the ending through DLC in accordance with the Indoctrination Theory that is floating around.
Apparently, no matter what I did, all the Mass Relays exploded and killed everything. Great. No happy ending available apparently, only happy in the philosophical sense not the personal sense which contradicts what these games stand for. Personal and intimate relationships with your squadmates/friends that have flourished since ME1.
To say the least, I was shocked that all of the endings were the same aside from the color palettes involved. I was shocked that I did not flash back to my Love Interest Tali, but rather to my Ex from ME1 Liara. What?
And then the credits rolled to great music and then I was kicked in the quad by Bioware. A grandpa in the future has just finished telling his grandchild this story. This story is the 3 games I just played. It wasn;t a life I was living, rather a story. Ouch. That hurt. And then the grandpa advertised DLC. Ouch. I got ulcers from that.
And then there was the simple text box saying that Shephard is a legend. What?
Where are the consequences to my actions from the past 3 games?
Where are the species rebuilding? Oh right, they are all dead. Great.
Where is my funeral?
Where are the multiple endings and not just the three color swapped 99% the same endings?! How would color blind people feel?
I understand that the ending was intended to be very philosophical and metaphysical (at least that's how I perceived it) but that is not what Mass Effect is based upon. This series is based upon the fact that your actions have consequences. There are consequences to your actions in the end but in all "3 separate endings" the consequences are all the same. This breaks the second most important principle which is Choice. We, the consumers, were promised 16 separate endings. This did not happen. The consequences from the A, B, C ending(s) were all effectively the same.

I won't go into other plot holes that are present in the ending because I am sure that they have been covered by countless people before me. These holes should not exist and must be fixed. Good thing DLC exists.

On a more personal note, I do not want to have to turn to Fanfiction writings to get the ending to a series that I have literally come to love with every ounce of my being. I love Fanfics and love reading Tali+Male Shephard fics but that is not what I have spent $200+ dollars on. I have spent plenty of cash to receive what was promised to us, the consumers, but Bioware has broken their promises and destroyed their reputation. Even if there is CLosure DLC, Bioware will need to work very hard to clean their reputation from this PR nightmare, especially if this hypothetical DLC is over priced.
Speaking of which, there is now a huge financial incentive for Bioware to make Closure DLC. Legions of fans would buy it. That is a huge incentive from a business perspective.
In conclusion, DLC should be released providing multiple endings where the consequences of our actions are shown. A little more focus on the respective Love Interests in the conclusion would be nice as well and provide emotional closure. I love this series. I reject the ending because it is not an ending to Mass Effect, rather an ending to a generic third person shooter with a single conclusion. I'll bury myself in Fanfics until this DLC arrives.
Help yourself by helping your fans Bioware. Don't betray us like this. Please.

Thank you for writing this, this is how I feel.  I couldn't put into words what I felt because I was so angry and disapointed.

This is pretty much what I wanted to say but just couldn't get it right. Thank you!

[kitcat1228]

Iconoclaste wrote...

theoldludwigvan wrote...

The games are GREAT, but when you
know the ending that is coming, and you know your choices in the game
dont matter, nobody will replay.

Maybe this "won't replay" argument is not the strongest one : would Bioware prefer a fanbase playing numerous times over a same game, or have them buy new stuff in a relatively short time?

It should be a serious argument because won't replay also translates into won't buy DLC and replay.

[Iconoclaste]

This means "move forward".

[almightydavidbc27]

  I finished the game a couple days ago, and although I haven't been on the forums in quite some time, I was, let's say, compelled to come back and post about my experience with the ending.  Let me preface by saying I've been a member here since 2007, and I've never considered myself a flamer or a negative poster all in all.  I'm going to give a rundown on why the ending to the second game was perfect, and why the third game was so offensive. So, here goes.

The second mass effect had the perfect ending, the best ending I'd ever seen in a video game. It was a complete culmination of everything you did the whole game. Every squad member was involved (unlike other games where I always wondered what everyone else was doing as the galaxy is on the line lol). Let me describe what it was so perfect in my opinion.
The entire game was about building your squad and preparing for this suicide mission. All the hard hours scanning planets for resources, and doing loyalty missions, and talking with your squad was rewarded in a direct way. Every upgrade was shown to keep your crew members alive during the initial run. The loyalty missions meant everyone was there 100% and lived through things they wouldn't live through otherwise because you had inspired them. And in choosing people to lead the teams etc you had to know your guys to know who should do what, otherwise people would die. And if you did all those things right, you got out of a suicide mission with everyone alive (aside from Mordin sometimes dying for no reason). The game responded to your direct input throughout your playthrough, I had never felt so accomplished than seeing my choices directly alter the story. The end cutscene where everyone sees they really lived through something, and you get ready for the reapers, I was on board. It was remarkable, wholly remarkable.

Now, about Mass Effect 3. I couldn't feel more opposite about Mass Effect 3's ending. Let me say that before the final 5-10 minutes it was the best of the bunch. The combat was stellar, the tone was maintained, I cried when Legion died. I was ok with losing people in the battle. It happens. the 4 or so people that sacrifice themselves along the way, I was ok with it, it hurt but it was fair.

You spent the entire game readying the galaxy for one last final stand. Ending centuries old disputes, bringing the galaxy together under a common goal. It was astounding to see it all unfold. And then it was like none oof it mattered for the end. We never got to see the krogan fight side by side with the turians, or the geth save a quarian about to be killed, or see all those assets put to work against the reapers. We got to see the upgrades, why can't we get some benefit. And it would've been cool to see how each race effected the fight, based on their strength rating, instead of some random magic number bar that has no real direct effect in the story.

More than that is that Mass Effect has been your game, your choices, and your endings. All 3 endings in this game are practically the same, just different light shows. There is no real payoff for filling your bar all the way, or winning over every race, or anything. You get the same result regardless. A dead shepard, a dead anderson, and no closure. Even worse you destroy the mass relays NO MATTER WHAT?! What is the point of saving galactic civilization if you're sending us back to 21st century times. I didnt defeat the reapers. I want to see all the races head back to their devastated worlds to rebuild, maybe with a glimmer of hope, as we all stand united. You know, lessons learned, a future to be held.

Mass Effect 3 was amazing in the way in tied up all these loose ends, incorporated 2 games of prior characters and happenings, and developed things further. Unitl the end. Once again, we see the normandy outrun the blast given off by the crucible. It damages the normandy. So, did I just destroy every ship in the galaxy? How many millions or billions of beings just got slaughtered above earth? How are all these now stranded millions supposed to get by living together on a devastated earth?

What was the point of Wrex saving the Krogans future, fixing the genophage, reclaiming the Quarians homeworld, and breathing life into the geth if none of them get to continue on? It renders all the previously listed stories null and void. Tali has spent 3 games waiting for this moment, and now she's stuck on earth or some random planet? For that matter I don't even know what happens to my squad members, i would have loved some dramatic cutscenes during the climactic battle of them risking their lives. and even worse, how the hell do any of them magically appear on the normady before it crash lands on some planet? They were all on earth before, did they get magically beamed up?

And finally, I worked hard for a happy ending. i cried during those see you on the other side conversations. I never got to see them or me on the other side. i want the chance to live, remember, and retire away with the love i built for 3 games. Why can't that be an option. If you do everything perfect, and have two previous imports, there was no reward for all the hard work and dedication we put in. 

I can't understand how bad the ball was dropped, when you exceeded expectations so amazingly. I sincerely hope that you come out with a DLC addressing the issues listed above. I'd pay for it. I just want the ending i earned.

Thank You.

[theoldludwigvan]

Sidney wrote...

iiNOMADii wrote...

I feel as if all the decisions I made in the first two games were almost completely meaningless in relation to the ME3 ending. 

All your decision in DAO were meaningless too. The AD died, same thing everytime. You didn't have a choice to join the AD or control the AD or anything else. I'm not sure why folks feel like their decisions didn't matter any less than they didn't matter in most other games. The endings are bad but they're not more "fixed" than plenty of other games.

While DAO may have employed some standard rpg choice elements, it wasn't based on choice to the same degree as ME. And with DAO they didn't promise us after 2 games that the ending would be a result of all your choices, and that the ending wouldn't be "A, B or C." 

We expected endings unlike "plenty of other games." We wanted to make our ending through our Shepards. Something that no or few other games has ever achieved, and this oppertunity was completely blown.

[InLoveWithTaliZorah]

THECRAZYSTUD wrote...

InLoveWithTaliZorah wrote...

My Experience with the ending to Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect Series:
I disliked the ghost child but was willing to forgive Bioware for that because it seemed at the time I was playing it that Bioware was going for a more Metaphysical ending which I could understand. I accepted that I would die if I chose the paragon or renegade choice which seemed like an inevitable end to a great series. However, the word "inevitable" contradicts everything the Mass Effect series stands for. Nothing is inevitable. There is always a choice. The fact that Bioware chose to create a finale that broke the principles of the game was disturbing but I forgave them for that at the time. After I took control of the Reapers on my playthrough however, the ending went downhill from there.
Why was the Normandy fleeing and leaving me to die? Joker would never do that!
How did Tali and Garrus get onto the Normandy? They were with me when Harbinger shot me with its LASER. I thought they were dead. They would never leave me behind. I romanced Tali for goodness sakes. That ending where the Normandy crashed onto the tropical planet and all of the mass relays exploded was disgusting. Everyone effectively died. Tali would most likely die of infection in a tropical environment where there are more microorganisms than in any other climate. Garrus would die of starvation, exposure, or maybe old age, and Joker would as well. And then the rest of the Armada that was left on Earth, now stranded there because there are no mass relays, will eventually die off as well due to infighting and lack of resources. If you say that the ships have FTL capabilities and can still travel to distant systems, and you say that the explosions of the Mass Relays didn't kill everything, then what was so bad about sending that asteroid into the Alpha Relay in the Arrival DLC for ME2? According to this proposed logic, nothing bad would have happened, only an increase in travel time between the systems. No big deal. But that didn't happen in the Arrival DLC. The whole system was either cut off or killed by the exploding Mass Relay. That happened to every system in the end of ME3. And you die. And your love interest and friends die.
With that ending, I could not forgive Bioware for creating this God Child and consequently breaking the lore and the whole point of the first game. The God Child could have just sent the reapers through the Citadel without Saren or any help.
With that ending, I inevitably reloaded those last 15 minutes and chose the neutral option next to see what would happen. The child did not say that I would die in this choice but that happened anyway.
I moved on to the Renegade choice and received the same outcome with the exception of the 10 seconds of seeing a piece of N7 armor move as if someone was breathing while under rubble. Not interesting at all unless Bioware intends to pursue the ending through DLC in accordance with the Indoctrination Theory that is floating around.
Apparently, no matter what I did, all the Mass Relays exploded and killed everything. Great. No happy ending available apparently, only happy in the philosophical sense not the personal sense which contradicts what these games stand for. Personal and intimate relationships with your squadmates/friends that have flourished since ME1.
To say the least, I was shocked that all of the endings were the same aside from the color palettes involved. I was shocked that I did not flash back to my Love Interest Tali, but rather to my Ex from ME1 Liara. What?
And then the credits rolled to great music and then I was kicked in the quad by Bioware. A grandpa in the future has just finished telling his grandchild this story. This story is the 3 games I just played. It wasn;t a life I was living, rather a story. Ouch. That hurt. And then the grandpa advertised DLC. Ouch. I got ulcers from that.
And then there was the simple text box saying that Shephard is a legend. What?
Where are the consequences to my actions from the past 3 games?
Where are the species rebuilding? Oh right, they are all dead. Great.
Where is my funeral?
Where are the multiple endings and not just the three color swapped 99% the same endings?! How would color blind people feel?
I understand that the ending was intended to be very philosophical and metaphysical (at least that's how I perceived it) but that is not what Mass Effect is based upon. This series is based upon the fact that your actions have consequences. There are consequences to your actions in the end but in all "3 separate endings" the consequences are all the same. This breaks the second most important principle which is Choice. We, the consumers, were promised 16 separate endings. This did not happen. The consequences from the A, B, C ending(s) were all effectively the same.

I won't go into other plot holes that are present in the ending because I am sure that they have been covered by countless people before me. These holes should not exist and must be fixed. Good thing DLC exists.

On a more personal note, I do not want to have to turn to Fanfiction writings to get the ending to a series that I have literally come to love with every ounce of my being. I love Fanfics and love reading Tali+Male Shephard fics but that is not what I have spent $200+ dollars on. I have spent plenty of cash to receive what was promised to us, the consumers, but Bioware has broken their promises and destroyed their reputation. Even if there is CLosure DLC, Bioware will need to work very hard to clean their reputation from this PR nightmare, especially if this hypothetical DLC is over priced.
Speaking of which, there is now a huge financial incentive for Bioware to make Closure DLC. Legions of fans would buy it. That is a huge incentive from a business perspective.
In conclusion, DLC should be released providing multiple endings where the consequences of our actions are shown. A little more focus on the respective Love Interests in the conclusion would be nice as well and provide emotional closure. I love this series. I reject the ending because it is not an ending to Mass Effect, rather an ending to a generic third person shooter with a single conclusion. I'll bury myself in Fanfics until this DLC arrives.
Help yourself by helping your fans Bioware. Don't betray us like this. Please.

Thank you for writing this, this is how I feel.  I couldn't put into words what I felt because I was so angry and disapointed.

Your welcome. I know how you feel. It took me 2 days to calm myself down and formulate my ideas. I have Fanfics to thank for calming me down.

[THECRAZYSTUD]

Modifié par THECRAZYSTUD, 20 mars 2012 - 04:00 .

[InLoveWithTaliZorah]

tiger_wsquared wrote...

THECRAZYSTUD wrote...

InLoveWithTaliZorah wrote...

My Experience with the ending to Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect Series:
I disliked the ghost child but was willing to forgive Bioware for that because it seemed at the time I was playing it that Bioware was going for a more Metaphysical ending which I could understand. I accepted that I would die if I chose the paragon or renegade choice which seemed like an inevitable end to a great series. However, the word "inevitable" contradicts everything the Mass Effect series stands for. Nothing is inevitable. There is always a choice. The fact that Bioware chose to create a finale that broke the principles of the game was disturbing but I forgave them for that at the time. After I took control of the Reapers on my playthrough however, the ending went downhill from there.
Why was the Normandy fleeing and leaving me to die? Joker would never do that!
How did Tali and Garrus get onto the Normandy? They were with me when Harbinger shot me with its LASER. I thought they were dead. They would never leave me behind. I romanced Tali for goodness sakes. That ending where the Normandy crashed onto the tropical planet and all of the mass relays exploded was disgusting. Everyone effectively died. Tali would most likely die of infection in a tropical environment where there are more microorganisms than in any other climate. Garrus would die of starvation, exposure, or maybe old age, and Joker would as well. And then the rest of the Armada that was left on Earth, now stranded there because there are no mass relays, will eventually die off as well due to infighting and lack of resources. If you say that the ships have FTL capabilities and can still travel to distant systems, and you say that the explosions of the Mass Relays didn't kill everything, then what was so bad about sending that asteroid into the Alpha Relay in the Arrival DLC for ME2? According to this proposed logic, nothing bad would have happened, only an increase in travel time between the systems. No big deal. But that didn't happen in the Arrival DLC. The whole system was either cut off or killed by the exploding Mass Relay. That happened to every system in the end of ME3. And you die. And your love interest and friends die.
With that ending, I could not forgive Bioware for creating this God Child and consequently breaking the lore and the whole point of the first game. The God Child could have just sent the reapers through the Citadel without Saren or any help.
With that ending, I inevitably reloaded those last 15 minutes and chose the neutral option next to see what would happen. The child did not say that I would die in this choice but that happened anyway.
I moved on to the Renegade choice and received the same outcome with the exception of the 10 seconds of seeing a piece of N7 armor move as if someone was breathing while under rubble. Not interesting at all unless Bioware intends to pursue the ending through DLC in accordance with the Indoctrination Theory that is floating around.
Apparently, no matter what I did, all the Mass Relays exploded and killed everything. Great. No happy ending available apparently, only happy in the philosophical sense not the personal sense which contradicts what these games stand for. Personal and intimate relationships with your squadmates/friends that have flourished since ME1.
To say the least, I was shocked that all of the endings were the same aside from the color palettes involved. I was shocked that I did not flash back to my Love Interest Tali, but rather to my Ex from ME1 Liara. What?
And then the credits rolled to great music and then I was kicked in the quad by Bioware. A grandpa in the future has just finished telling his grandchild this story. This story is the 3 games I just played. It wasn;t a life I was living, rather a story. Ouch. That hurt. And then the grandpa advertised DLC. Ouch. I got ulcers from that.
And then there was the simple text box saying that Shephard is a legend. What?
Where are the consequences to my actions from the past 3 games?
Where are the species rebuilding? Oh right, they are all dead. Great.
Where is my funeral?
Where are the multiple endings and not just the three color swapped 99% the same endings?! How would color blind people feel?
I understand that the ending was intended to be very philosophical and metaphysical (at least that's how I perceived it) but that is not what Mass Effect is based upon. This series is based upon the fact that your actions have consequences. There are consequences to your actions in the end but in all "3 separate endings" the consequences are all the same. This breaks the second most important principle which is Choice. We, the consumers, were promised 16 separate endings. This did not happen. The consequences from the A, B, C ending(s) were all effectively the same.

I won't go into other plot holes that are present in the ending because I am sure that they have been covered by countless people before me. These holes should not exist and must be fixed. Good thing DLC exists.

On a more personal note, I do not want to have to turn to Fanfiction writings to get the ending to a series that I have literally come to love with every ounce of my being. I love Fanfics and love reading Tali+Male Shephard fics but that is not what I have spent $200+ dollars on. I have spent plenty of cash to receive what was promised to us, the consumers, but Bioware has broken their promises and destroyed their reputation. Even if there is CLosure DLC, Bioware will need to work very hard to clean their reputation from this PR nightmare, especially if this hypothetical DLC is over priced.
Speaking of which, there is now a huge financial incentive for Bioware to make Closure DLC. Legions of fans would buy it. That is a huge incentive from a business perspective.
In conclusion, DLC should be released providing multiple endings where the consequences of our actions are shown. A little more focus on the respective Love Interests in the conclusion would be nice as well and provide emotional closure. I love this series. I reject the ending because it is not an ending to Mass Effect, rather an ending to a generic third person shooter with a single conclusion. I'll bury myself in Fanfics until this DLC arrives.
Help yourself by helping your fans Bioware. Don't betray us like this. Please.

Thank you for writing this, this is how I feel.  I couldn't put into words what I felt because I was so angry and disapointed.

This is pretty much what I wanted to say but just couldn't get it right. Thank you!

Your very welcome. This is my first time on the Forums so I figured I would make it a good intro. My emotional attachment to Tali (Talimancers for the win!) helped a lot.

[Big Grumpy]

[Edit: sorry for some of the wild formatting of this post because the forums did not like my cut and paste from Word]

First, the game was amazing and I do not have much to say in that department, so I'll focus on the ending.

It's been several days since I beat the game and I continue to think of the ending
and the passion it evokes in others.  After giving it some thought, I realize that I am neutral to the ending—which in itself may be problematic.[/b]  There are some things that I think that the ending does very well, but also some things that it does very poorly. It is because of these extremes that I find my opinion averaging to neutral.  Since bioware is watching, I'd like to take a moment and express what I think went right and what I think went very wrong.  I also think something should be done about the ending, because Bioware can simply tell a better story than this.

The good:[/b]
Kill Shep[/b]—Everything in the last two games leads up to it.  Shep is often told that he was "born to kill the reapers", the Illusive Man brought him back to kill the reapers.  What is Shep without the reapers?  Shep being bound to the reapers, tied to their ultimate fate, makes a lot of sense and adds a real poignancy to his struggle.  I never expected Shepard to live, but I am still emotionally invested in the character.  I want Shepard to live, which is why I think Shep needs to die Plus, given how robust the universe is, we don't need Shep anymore.  The universe is alive—in many ways more flushed out then the Shepard character.

Non-Construct Illusive Man[/b]—While I would have preferred the Illusive Man was dialed back to evil level 7, even the Illusive Man all the way up at evil level 11 is awesome.  I liked that he was a monster, but was somewhat redeemed in that he was allowed to take his own life to break control.  He went out with some measure of his humanity intact, which did the complex character justice.  The IM had to die for his crimes, but he was a somewhat sympathetic character in the 2nd game and remained so even in parts of the 3rd.  I was very pleased that he did not end up just another indoctrinated reaper construct or something (as the art book made me fear he would become). I thought the character's death was handled well.

The Bad:[/b]
Harbinger[/b]—ME2 setup Harbinger as the big bad.  It was a very very slick ending that Harbinger was assuming command of the Collectors the whole time and not the command and control bug as the early game made it out to be. The Arrival (post play through) had a fantastic moment between Shep and Harbinger, seemingly setting up what was to come next.  So Harbinger being more or less absent from the game was a massive let down—particularly given how Harbinger appears to be constructed from Protheans (given the "eye" configuration and ability to directly control them). Obviously the threat should be on all the Reapers, but Harbinger is something special to Shepard and that can be better reflected either in the game or at the end.

Why did I think of those people?[/b]—As Shep ends the war, he thinks of Anderson which makes sense given how Anderson is a father figure.  Then he thinks of Joker which made less sense given that Garrus is (at least in my play through) my BFF!  Then he thinks of Liara and I yelled, "Oh come on!"  Since ME2 my Shep has been fanatically loyal to Tali.  So why in my final moments did I think of Liara?  It didn't make sense particularly given the really nicely done romance between Tali and Shep in ME3 it felt like a complete cop out.  A lot of people have complained about not getting to see Tali unmasked, and I think this would be a great opportunity if you romanced her (I doubt in Shep's final moments he'd be thinking of Tali's mask!).  I just felt like Shep's final thoughts were horribly canned given all the choices I've made and the characters my Shep cares about.  At least make Shep think of the person he/she actually LOVES rather than a one-Shep-fits all!

The Star Child[/b]—yuck!  So yuck!  Hitherto unknown
super power that was actually pulling the strings the entire time never good NEVER EVER good storytelling.

"And they have a plan"[/b]—I really hated that the reapers were part of this plan of that Star Child yadda yadda yadda.  I really liked that we did not know why the reapers did what they did.  The frequent comparison to gods was absolutely brilliant—gods are by their nature esoteric and mysterious and do not need to explain themselves.  I loved that the reapers were this unstoppable unknowable force—in a way that the Geth were largely unknowable.  Their unknowable nature made them really scary and interesting, which was largely shattered by the Star Child.  I really hated that the reapers had some silly backstory that not only made them somewhat sympathetic but also kind of made it sound like they were slaves. Two of my favorite villains pre-prequels Darth Vader and Nolan's Dark Knight Joker had no real concrete origin stories.  There were vague references to Vader once being good and stories the Joker told about his scars, but they were essentially the embodiment of something greater evil (Vader) and chaos (the Joker), and that worked so well.  As Darth Vader shows, trying to make a backstory weakens the character.  So too it is with the reapers: I don't care that organics killed the reapers partner 3 days from retirement and that's why they hate organics!  I loved the reapers as something more akin to an unknowable god or utterly impersonal force of nature.

The Gilligan's Island Crash Landing[/b]—Joker crashes the ship on some random
planet, yuck!  That whole arc is just silly and has been discussed why it is bad in many other posts, but I wanted to note that, like the Star Child, I did not at all care for that.

Not Knowing[/b]—For me, Mass Effect works best when it is about the characters.  ME2 sold me on that concept.  The main storyline of ME 2 was pretty standard video game fair, but what set the game head and shoulders above other games (and made it one of the best games I've ever played) was that the characters were real to me.  Garrus
felt like my friend.  Tali felt like someone I could care about. Jacob made me want to punch him in his face… and Mordin was one of the most complex and interesting people I've ever met in a game.  ME3's most poignant moments where when I discovered the fate of these people that I care so much about.  I said, "Oh #$@#$@!" when I saw a Reaper land on Earth, but I had to stop playing and gather myself when
the elevator doors closed on Mordin for the last time.  I actually got sad when I saw familiar names on the war memorial board. Why?  Because the characters were something special, any company can have a giant spaceship land on earth and start blowing crap up, but making me question my ties to one beloved character takes masterful writing. Yet, the ending of ME3 avoids the fate of the characters except Joker and maybe 1 or 2 other allies.  The universe is important, but what I connect to in Mass Effect is not so much the grand vision of the world, but the beautiful and well crafted characters. Not everything needs to be answered, but it would be nice to know that people at least survived the initial battle.

Consequences[/b]—One of the things I was disappointed by was how little we saw the decisions Shep makes.  Killing the reapers (and all synthetic life forms) I would think would prompt a scene where EDI dies in Joker's arms, or as the Quarians and Geth move closer to unification the Geth suddenly die i.e. we see the consequences of killing the reapers in a real character driven way rather than the Gilligan's Island ending. Similarly synthesis only leads to characters having green veins, but it seems here again more could be done the Quarians now merged with the Geth could shed their suits, perhaps the Krogen gain enlightenment, etc.  It was just very very disappointing how
little was shown.  I realize this was likely stylistic, and I can appreciate that the cycle is over and the universe is being born anew, but I think you could give us some sensible results and still maintain that the universe is a very radical new place.

The on the fence:[/b]
The end of the Mass Relays[/b]—this one is tough.  I believe it was Sovereign that specifically said that the reapers control the mass relay technology, so the reapers fundamentally control the evolutionary vectors of every space ferring species.  So it makes sense that ending that technology ends the reapers' cycle. But, I like having my morality pressed.  One of the things I love about bioware games is that I will be forced to make difficult decisions, but the destruction of the mass relays feels like none of the choices really matter because I've essentially just doomed the majority of the universe. 
Earth is certainly lost without outside aid so what does it matter if I "save" it or not? It is implied that most (if not all) the capital worlds are in a similar boat suggesting no matter what I do, I've doomed trillions to die no matter what I do.  There is no tough decision becasue each seem largely equally bad because each dooms the majoirty of people.

Modifié par Big Grumpy, 20 mars 2012 - 04:12 .

[Sidney]

theoldludwigvan wrote...

Lots of issues, but if you're listening, Bioware, the biggest issue seems to be the lack of unique endings, and the lack of closure. Yeah some people want a happy ending, or this or that, but the real killer is that the endings don't reflect your Shepard's journey of 3 games, and you don't get to see the fallout of that ending. NOBODY WANTS TO REPLAY THE GAME BECAUSE THE ENDING ISNT UNIQUE. The games are GREAT, but when you know the ending that is coming, and you know your choices in the game dont matter, nobody will replay.

Again, the ending of DAO/DA2 aren't unique. The ending of BG2 IIRC isn't unique. Those games all end with a fairly simple state - the maint\\ antogonist is dead no matter how you bob and weave. Same thing in KoTOR where you can be the most dark side SoB for the whole game and then blammo choose to go light side ending so the ending does reflkect your choices in the game only the choice you made at the end of the game.

What would make it unique? Are people really just asking for the Animal House style "post script" to sum things up in a neat package thw way DAO took that one AD is dead ending and then gussied it up with those postscript cards?

I'm not trying to defend the writing of the endings which is awful but I don't see the difference with this ending and most other endings in Bioware games.

[Word_Bearer]

InLoveWithTaliZorah wrote...

Your welcome. I know how you feel. It took me 2 days to calm myself down and formulate my ideas. I have Fanfics to thank for calming me down.

Oh, you too? I went to FF the night I finished the game and just read...

[Iconoclaste]

Paulomedi wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

theoldludwigvan wrote...

It isn't the best argument for a new ending in itself, it is the reason I think a lot of fans are pissed.

In a sense, Bioware might just have attained their goal, if their intent was to have the fanbase to let go of their attachment to the trilogy, and move on to the next show on the shelves...

Doing it in a stupid way. Really, would you honestly buy any more content from a company that blalantly ripped you off?

Most people here seem to have done it already...

[theoldludwigvan]

Sidney wrote...

theoldludwigvan wrote...

Lots of issues, but if you're listening, Bioware, the biggest issue seems to be the lack of unique endings, and the lack of closure. Yeah some people want a happy ending, or this or that, but the real killer is that the endings don't reflect your Shepard's journey of 3 games, and you don't get to see the fallout of that ending. NOBODY WANTS TO REPLAY THE GAME BECAUSE THE ENDING ISNT UNIQUE. The games are GREAT, but when you know the ending that is coming, and you know your choices in the game dont matter, nobody will replay.

Again, the ending of DAO/DA2 aren't unique. The ending of BG2 IIRC isn't unique. Those games all end with a fairly simple state - the maint antogonist is dead no matter how you bob and weave. Same thing in KoTOR where you can be the most dark side SoB for the whole game and then blammo choose to go light side ending so the ending does reflkect your choices in the game only the choice you made at the end of the game.

What would make it unique? Are people really just asking for the Animal House style "post script" to sum things up in a neat package thw way DAO took that one AD is dead ending and then gussied it up with those postscript cards?

I'm not trying to defend the writing of the endings which is awful but I don't see the difference with this ending and most other endings in Bioware games.

Read my earlier response to another of your posts. The point is that ME isnt those other games. ME was much more about choice and the outcome, and it kept a narrative through 3 games with the choice/consequence schtick. The squandered the greatest oppertunity to do what no other games do: End a series based on player choice...and they squandered it.

[Sidney]

theoldludwigvan wrote...

While DAO may have employed some standard rpg choice elements, it wasn't based on choice to the same degree as ME. And with DAO they didn't promise us after 2 games that the ending would be a result of all your choices, and that the ending wouldn't be "A, B or C." 

We expected endings unlike "plenty of other games." We wanted to make our ending through our Shepards. Something that no or few other games has ever achieved, and this oppertunity was completely blown.

So if the ending had been the Crucible fires, all Reapers die and end plaquards with "the krogan lived on..", "the quarian and geth had a sock hop" that would be better than having A/B/C choice?

I'm not sure anyone can really define what it is they wanted other than "not this" because a world that is the sum of your decisions sounds a lot like the DAO approach of dead big mean baddie and a lot of "wrap up" stuff.

[hchadw]

Paulomedi wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

theoldludwigvan wrote...

It isn't the best argument for a new ending in itself, it is the reason I think a lot of fans are pissed.

In a sense, Bioware might just have attained their goal, if their intent was to have the fanbase to let go of their attachment to the trilogy, and move on to the next show on the shelves...

Doing it in a stupid way. Really, would you honestly buy any more content from a company that blalantly ripped you off?

Im with you on that.... My sheperds Dead... No need for DLC for me... could careless about the crappy redundent multiplayer... thats for people with ADHD.

My story is over... they didnt let my choices matter... my sheperd is dead ........ so why would I spend more money on this game.. .

I have no interest in this Half Hearted... Half Assed attempt at muliplayer which is nothing more than a horde mode and a real world MONEY dump pit to buy ingame multiplayer items!

this 3rd Installment WREAKS of Corp. Greed and Publisher Poking and Proding!

[Iconoclaste]

And they can even push that further, with the "Endoctrination theory". Only problem seems that even this option would make some furious. Go figure!

[Kabraxal]

theoldludwigvan wrote...

Sidney wrote...

iiNOMADii wrote...

I feel as if all the decisions I made in the first two games were almost completely meaningless in relation to the ME3 ending. 

All your decision in DAO were meaningless too. The AD died, same thing everytime. You didn't have a choice to join the AD or control the AD or anything else. I'm not sure why folks feel like their decisions didn't matter any less than they didn't matter in most other games. The endings are bad but they're not more "fixed" than plenty of other games.

While DAO may have employed some standard rpg choice elements, it wasn't based on choice to the same degree as ME. And with DAO they didn't promise us after 2 games that the ending would be a result of all your choices, and that the ending wouldn't be "A, B or C." 

We expected endings unlike "plenty of other games." We wanted to make our ending through our Shepards. Something that no or few other games has ever achieved, and this oppertunity was completely blown.

DAO is the perfect example of how to have a more singular "ending" while still showcasing choice... sure the main story ends roughly the same, but the epilogues slides are wehre the true breadth of hte experience is reflected in DAO.  If ME3 had anything comparable to show how the universe changed depending on your choices, including the ending, then very few would be up in arms about the ending at all.

[Sidney]

theoldludwigvan wrote...

Read my earlier response to another of your posts. The point is that ME isnt those other games. ME was much more about choice and the outcome, and it kept a narrative through 3 games with the choice/consequence schtick. The squandered the greatest oppertunity to do what no other games do: End a series based on player choice...and they squandered it.

ME is those other games. It is really no different. How is chosing Quarians or Geth different than choosing werewolves versus elves?

Even something like FNV is merely a selection, pick the faction you want to work for and blammo everyone who picked that faction gets the same ending.

[Sidney]

Kabraxal wrote...
DAO is the perfect example of how to have a more singular "ending" while still showcasing choice... sure the main story ends roughly the same, but the epilogues slides are wehre the true breadth of hte experience is reflected in DAO.  If ME3 had anything comparable to show how the universe changed depending on your choices, including the ending, then very few would be up in arms about the ending at all.

So really, that is the gripe for "most folks" no end cards? I would hope that understates what people think is wrong with the ending.

[hchadw]

Sidney wrote...

theoldludwigvan wrote...

Read my earlier response to another of your posts. The point is that ME isnt those other games. ME was much more about choice and the outcome, and it kept a narrative through 3 games with the choice/consequence schtick. The squandered the greatest oppertunity to do what no other games do: End a series based on player choice...and they squandered it.

ME is those other games. It is really no different. How is chosing Quarians or Geth different than choosing werewolves versus elves?

Even something like FNV is merely a selection, pick the faction you want to work for and blammo everyone who picked that faction gets the same ending.

Your not seeing the issue.... the point is there is not different endings other than a light show of Red, Green, or Blue. Showing almost the exact same thing in all 3 ... minus a few seconds different here that hell i didnt even notice until i watched it on the web in slow motion... (it was that small of a differnce)... Lazy Lazy thrown together ending or Wonderfully THOUGHT up Troll!.... im hoping its the second one!

You are forced into making 1 of 3 decisions that DO NOT reflect your decisions in any way shape or form..... (As was avidly advertised on websites, emails, interviews, and of course...

Bioware THE PULSE..... ... i do have my hand on the pulse ... and guess what...............................IT FEELS WEAK!

Modifié par hchadw, 20 mars 2012 - 04:14 .

[Tarquin_UK]

Right, so after finally getting to the end of the game in the wee hours of the morning and realizing that everyone was right about how abrupt and frankly bad the ending was...I went to bed and tried to digest it what you call an ending to what has been, to this point, my favourite game series in a long career of playing them. I am typing this in an N7 hoodie, for what it's worth.

I didn't mind being presented with a tough choice.

1 - Kill the Reapers but also the Geth and EDI.
2 - Control the Reapers, but die and chance the Illusive Man's fate.
3 - Compromise, let everyone live (except me) by joining my DNA with the Reapers, Geth, EDI...everyone.

As seductive as the straight forward, run into the light, gosh, isn't this like the end of TRON choice was, I couldn't look passed the glaring plot holes, a fresh, deus ex machina character glowy kid with 3 voices, and after trying each ending after first going with my gut and destroying the Reapers, here I am, I have just played it though a fourth time, choosing once more to go red and kill the Reapers.

Why? Because now that I have had enough time to think about it, I believe like others that the Catalyst child was nothing more than a last ditch effort by the Reapers to indoctrinate Shephard by trying to convince him that either of the two options that didn't kill all synthetic life was the preferable choice for the universe. Both the Green and Blue choices had me kill myself with the promise that the result would be the salvation of the universe, yet if I killed the Reapers I would doom the Universe to eventual chaos. Maybe.

Essentially, the kid was a holographic projection sent by the Reapers to stop Shephard with lies and bad logic because they knew they were about to be defeated.

Thus, as I now see it, there is only one winning outcome that has any effect in the Mass Effect Universe, and not in some jungle fantasy "Matrix"-like outcome where his sacrifice earns his loved ones eternal peace in paradise.

The scene with Joker racing away to crash land on a distant planet is nothing more than a dream in Shephard's mind as he lays unconscious in the rubble of earth before waking up with a sharp breath as he came back to the real world.

So, since it's the only ending that makes even the smallest bit of sense, it must be the right one.

Can you offer a better explanation, Bioware?

Modifié par Tarquin_UK, 20 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[Iconoclaste]

Well, see? Bioware asks :"What do we do now?" and many will answer "Bye bye". Thanks a lot for all the others!