23455 réponses à ce sujet

[TLK Spires]

"we are listening", huh? then let me throw in something for you to listen to. i could gladly provide a good and thorough essay for you to read, but i know that would be discarded, so i'll make it nice and concise:

that wasn't an ending, that was a goddamn middle finger flipped because of a cop out.

[Twinzam.V]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Even Saren seemed to be autonomous
for the most part, only when his thoughts differed from the Reaper's
objective would we see him struggle and fall back in his pro-Reaper
state. Who knows how indoctrination works? Well, that's the whole point
of the theory : Bioware shows us the process, without much hints, and
the more we approach the conclusion of the game, the more we see flaws.
Shepard's determination is strong, but so is the Reaper's goal to have
him, like they had Saren, and the Illusive Man. They all wanted the
"better good of the Galaxy" and failed to Shepard's hand. Like the
fallen Reaper on Rannoch said to him before closing the red light : we
will watch you. He was their biggest threat, yet their biggest hope. He
should have been severely burnt by the beam, so I guess it just went by
him, but this beam has unknow properties, up to now.

Saren being capable to break the Reapers control and shoot himself, made me belive that is a hint that the Reapers are not that "all powerfull" and having a strong will can make the diference, as for the beam the Cerburus implants might had an hand in that.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 20 mars 2012 - 05:46 .

[Cartras]

Just finished ME3 for the first time with my ME1/ME2 savegame. I have to say I loved all of the inside jokes/past references. So many of them I can't think of a good list since I didn't write them down when they happened. Jack's scenes were awesome though, as were Legion's scenes. Mordin stole the show, I had some misty eyes there. The dream sequences are hauntingly beautiful. The music is spot on and the whispers with the different voices (Mordin, Legion etc) made me misty eyed for some reason. I have no complaints about really anything except the ending...

I really am disappointed in the ending though. All the "work" (because playing a game is not really work) and decisions I made from the first two games and now in this one don't seem to have made a difference. "In the end, it didn't even matter." I even played multiplayer to get my war score maxed out before I went on the final mission. I don't expect a climatic final battle for galactic civilization to have a rainbows and puppy ending but geeze, the three endings in there now are horrendous. There are plenty of great endings floating around here that could be plugged into those three ending slots and still end up with a desperate feel. ME2 is a great example of how an ending could be since the ending depended upon choices I made and rewarded me or punished me accordingly. Sadly I just feel let down and disappointed that such a long running, engrossing, and great story ended like it did.

[Cambios]

Chris Priestly wrote...

What was your favorite moment?

You murdered all my favorite moments with your hack ending.

[Utopianus]

Poognaka wrote...

I understand that all your choices matter and throught your EMS level determine your choice(s) in the end. There is no need to change what happened and you shouldn't have to give
in to the demands of trolls Bioware!!! But DLC that explains what else
went on would be nice but please do not come up with an alternate
ending... Those people will find something else to complain about and
you will turn your back on the ones who supported you without question
from the beginning of the the greatest series of our generation.

If all my choices throughout all 3 Mass Effect games mattered, then I should have a reasonable expectation that the ending I received as a goody-two-shoes good samaritan natural-born diplomat would be significantly different to the ones I received as the ultimate-badass mercenary-for-hire take-crap-from-no-one mean-SOB. But no matter if I take the former or latter route, or anything "supposedly" possible in between, I will get the same outcome. If being the ultimate paragon + very high EMS = access to one set of completely different outcome to playing the ultimate renegade + very high EMS, with the varying degrees of morality and amount of EMS determining the variables as to the specifics of the outcomes, thus enabling a truly different and refreshing experience for the multitudes of outcome this would bring, then I will be satisfied.

That said, the ending should have addressed all the major plot holes no doubt repeated ad infinitum by now either in this thread or everywhere on the internet. So even if BioWare decides not to  release an alternate ending(s), it would still be nice for the plot holes be cleaned up, and as it stands, the plot holes are mostly introduced by the events of the last 10 minutes, so...

This is my understanding of how an ending should play out, given the amount of decisions and accompanying variables. Perhaps you would like to shed light on your understanding? I'd very much like to understand, in in-depth detail, how exactly my decisions mattered throughout the whole 3 games, how it affected the ending, and how EMS had played into this.

[Necoc Yaotl]

Twinzam.V wrote...

I dont hate the ending, im ok with bad endings. What im not ok with is endings that defy the lore logic, for example, and this is just an example, the fact that Shepard accepts everything that Starchild tells him, made me sound alarms that something wasnt right. Shepard no matter if its paragon or renegade would question the Starchild to why are those the only options. Because thats the base of the character to not accept everything at face value, thats why you can get more info from the wheel dialogues.

Hmm, ok, I can see that. That makes a lot of sense. I just saw it as Shepard being half dead and seriously at the end of his rope. So much death and struggle and with no other alternative, and time running out...

Interesting. If there is the intention that two of the three options are the result of indoctrination, then I have to say God Damn to the team of writers.

Modifié par Necoc Yaotl, 20 mars 2012 - 05:50 .

[Iconoclaste]

Twinzam.V wrote...

Saren being capable to break the Reapers control and shoot himself, made me belive that is a hint that the Reapers are not that "all powerfull" and having a strong will can make the diference, as for the beam the Cerburus implants might had an hand in that.

Just being in the vicinity of a Reaper can be sufficient to endoctrinate the common folks, but what about a full, desperate direct attempt on Shepard or anyone just about to get inside the Citadel? It would have been worthless to try to convince Shepard that the Reapers just wanted to "direct" any species towards any kind of superficial goal : they want extinction of advanced forms of biologicals, nothing less. The "solutions" offered to Shepard at the very "end" are not so clearly cut-out : a new, unexplored solution is offered, which could even endanger the main objective of the Reapers to control and regulate the events. How such a determined and committed logic as the Reaper's could allow for that? Endoctrinated subjects always tried to reason their opponent with arguments and "logic", and of course a few promises of "grandeur". Like the synthesis option. But in the end, since the "logic" of the Reapers is flawed (ex. Geths and Quarians now working together), they can always resort to induce a self-destruction scheme in the victim, like Saren, and maybe... Shepard. The Illusive man might have tried to interfere with the "takeover" of Shepard's mind, in the end, when the choices would be ineluctable and difficult.Cerberus technology could very easily contain "Reaper" components/design, since a good part of the advanced "tech" was from Reaper origin, in all this universe.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 20 mars 2012 - 06:04 .

[azbykker30]

In case Bioware is actually listening, I will add my own thoughts. Let me first say that I loved the ME trilogy. The universe and story totally caught my imagination. ME3 was shaping up great to be a fitting conclusion. I laughed many times and and cried for M. Solus and Thane. Then I got to the last 5 minutes... I " don't need a "rainbows and bunnies" ending, just at least one that is consistent with the saga, not ambiguous, and not full of inconsistencies.

You spend 99% of the game building alliances that become irrelevant. Give Quarians their home-world back>strand them all in orbit around earth. Free the Geth and raise them to a new level of sentience>genocide them (Same goes for EDI). This is not to mention that most of what's left of the Turians and Assari races are also stuck in orbit around earth. If the surviving races don't kill each other off for remaining resources (earth's infrastructure is destroyed), they will all starve to death. It is just sickening that the merging ending actually seems to be the most "good" ending you can choose (least genocide, most hope for the future according to starchild).

As for the LOST twist: Why the hell was Joker and your apparently fair weather friends running away and jumping out so Sol at at your moment of need. If it was just to escape the explosion, then all fleets in orbit wouldn't even get the chance to starve to death. Even characters that were getting blasted by reaper beams with you on earth magically get teleported onto the ship. They probably screwed being all alone on some alien planet. The story teller at the end of the credits is shot from afar so that you can't see the horrific result of inbreeding that would result from a population the size of the human crew. Seriously, can't we get some closure to the characters we've come to love?

I don't see how you can create such a great saga as Mass Effect and then completely ignore the tenets of gaming, story telling, and common sense in the final chapter.

[Twinzam.V]

Necoc Yaotl wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

I dont hate the ending, im ok with bad endings. What im not ok with is endings that defy the lore logic, for example, and this is just an example, the fact that Shepard accepts everything that Starchild tells him, made me sound alarms that something wasnt right. Shepard no matter if its paragon or renegade would question the Starchild to why are those the only options. Because thats the base of the character to not accept everything at face value, thats why you can get more info from the wheel dialogues.

Hmm, ok, I can see that. That makes a lot of sense. I just saw it as Shepard being half dead and seriously at the end of his rope. So much death and struggle and with no other alternative, and time running out...

Interesting. If there is the intention that two of the three options are the result of indoctrination, then I have to say God Damn to the team of writers.

Now you see my point of view, when i reached that part i basically did this "Hey Shepard. HEY. (two slaps on Shepard's face). Hey. Ask him the big questions. The why's and the who's. HEY. Hackett something is wrong with our super soldier here. Hackett? HACKETT. No connection. Mental note to self before entering in a possible doomsday device bring a better cell phone next time."

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 20 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[sp0ck 06]

I managed to avoid completely spoiling myself, but I knew people hated it, that Shep died, and that something drastic happened at the very end. i braced myself for the worst.

I could clearly see why people are upset by the ending. The gamer in me hated the ending, its abruptness, its ambiguitity, and its lack of closure. What the hell happened with the Normandy? What happened to the races, and my friends (the ones left living by the end)? I wanted answers! I deserve answers, after who knows how many hours spent playing these games.

After letting the ending stew for a few days, playing some MP, starting an Adept playthrough, I decided I loved the IDEA of the ending, it was just incomplete.

I was reminded of 2001, mixed with some Matrix Revolutions and a side of Contact with Ender's Game. I love where they were going with the ending. I was expected the Dark Energy "mass relays use dark energy and the Reapers ensure everything doesn't die by stopping advanced civilizations from using the relays."

Instead, we got, for lack of a better term, some crazy S**t! Suddenly the game was delving deep into questions about the nature of the universe, time, chaos versus order, intelligent design. I really appreciate what BioWare was trying to do. This is not a videogame ending. It's a terrible videogame ending. But I think its a pretty cool ending to a piece of fiction.

The Starkid represented a vast, incomprehensible sythetic intelligence. While it was certainly the driving force behind the Reapers, I don't think it was directly controlling them like Harby controlled the Collectors. A lot of people have pointed out flaws in the Starkids logic. This makes sense, because it's logic IS flawed. It is trying to maintain an order, a "solution" to what it views as the chaos of organic evolution. This fits with what the Reapers have been telling us all along. Sovvy said "we impose order on the chaos..."

The Starkid's motiviation was not borne out of trying to preserve life, but preserve order. Thus I think the ending s less about the literal "i build synthetics to kill organics to prevent them building synthetics to kill them" and more about deep question of order vs chaos. The cycle, the Crucible, the war against the Reapers, it all comes across as a test. A system established before time by some intelligence (presumably organic: going by the Starkid's own words, he must have been created at some point). The Starkid is the caretaker of this system, the impetus that drives the rotation of the galaxy. The Reapers are just tools of that system. I don't think the Reapers truly understand the nature of their existence, but they do have purpose.

Shepard, as the first organic to compete the Crucible and "activate" the Catalyst, is the literal represention of chaos, just as the Starkid represents order. This diacotomy is also expressed in the final conversation between TIM and Andersen. The Starkid, although seemingly godlike from Shepard's POV, is ultimately just a much a slave to the system as a Reapers and TIM. It's unable to make the final choice, leaving that to Shepard. So really the choices boil down to:

Control: Accept the validity of the system, assuming the Starkid's role as a machine-god maintaining the "old order" of the galaxy (reminds me most of 2001)

Synth: The system is flawed because it only represents one half of the universe's order: the synthetic, logical, scientific approach. It requires the inherently chaotic input of an organic lifeform to achieve balance.

Destroy: The system is flawed beyond repair. It nullifies free will by "determining" the continued, "harvested" existence of organic life is more valuable than the life in of its own. It values preservation of the order over faith in evolution to drive on its own.

This is how I interpreted the endings. I love the idea of these endings. BioWare has some cajones to let Shepard decide the ultimate fate of the galaxy from a metaphysical level.

WHAT I HATE IS THE IMPLEMENTATION

These endings are HUGE. I mean, this is the ultimate choice: you're basically confronted by a god and asked how you think the universe should procede from here. Yet the critics who say the theres only 1 ending, 3 colors, are absolutely right. We aren't shown anything that happened, just some silly "Lost" esque sequence with the Normandy and a bunch of stuff blowing up. What happened to the fleets? Our friends? The Citadel? Th explosions from the relays? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GALAXY AFTER I DETERMINED ITS VERY NATURE???

It's disappointing, because I really believe if BioWare had just provided some closure the fans would have embrace d these endings and the idea behind them. As it is, all we get is the Stargazer thing, which was cool, but all that told was some life survived, along with legends of Shepard. Hell, even just text would have done. Did the geth rebel again? What happened to the fleets? Were all the relays destroyed, and the solar systems with them? Just want answers!!!!!!

TLDR: BioWare, I love the direction that you went with in the ending. I love how you truly tried to transcend the tired videogame format. But as a gamer, I want some closure to the choices I've made throughout this game. Just tell us what happened!

[Twinzam.V]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

Saren being capable to break the Reapers control and shoot himself, made me belive that is a hint that the Reapers are not that "all powerfull" and having a strong will can make the diference, as for the beam the Cerburus implants might had an hand in that.

Just being in the vicinity of a Reaper can be sufficient to endoctrinate the common folks, but what about a full, desperate direct attempt on Shepard or anyone just about to get inside the Citadel? It would have been worthless to try to convince Shepard that the Reapers just wanted to "direct" any species towards any kind of superficial goal : they want extinction of advanced forms of biologicals, nothing less. The "solutions" offered to Shepard at the very "end" are not so clearly cut-out : a new, unexplored solution is offered, which could even endanger the main objective of the Reapers to control and regulate the events. How such a determined and committed logic as the Reaper's could allow for that? Endoctrinated subjects always tried to reason their opponent with arguments and "logic", and of course a few promises of "grandeur". Like the synthesis option. But in the end, since the "logic" of the Reapers is flawed (ex. Geths and Quarians now working together), they can always resort to induce a self-destruction scheme in the victim, like Saren, and maybe... Shepard. The Illusive man might have tried to interfere with the "takeover" of Shepard's mind, in the end, when the choices would be ineluctable and difficult.Cerberus technology could very easily contain "Reaper" components, since a good part of the advanced "tech" was from Reaper origin, in all this universe.

Hum... Yes. But if im not mistaken, i think Legion had Reaper technology incorporated and he was fine, the cerburus tech might have adapted that tech the same way Legion did. Dr. Chakwas also checked Shepard to see if everything was ok. Even if the equipment couldnt make a distinction between normal tech and reaper tech, i belive it would detect the growth of extras since thats the way Reaper tech acts, starts growing after some time. Even in the books, TIM coordinated experiments to see how fast it would grow.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 20 mars 2012 - 06:25 .

[Kiransalee]

Question: Who loves 19th Century philosophy so much that they decided we would all love a “Synthesis” ending to the Mass Effect trilogy?
 
Conceptually, it’s an interesting end; but the execution lacks. Somebody in game should talk about it directly before the awkward final ten minutes. The concept is not completely absent. The narrative alludes to a symbiotic synthesis of Geth and Quarians, when you talk to Tali about how the Geth help the Quarian people reacclimatize to Rannoch. And there are your philosophical conversations with EDI about life; it’s meaning, and her relationships. The theme is expressed, but only if you paid attention and then only in a scattered interpretation of game narrative.
 
Actually, I have a whole bunch of questions/gripes about the end.
 
Any which way you talk to the Illusive Man, he ends up with a bullet in him. Although, kudos is deserved for letting him kill you if you haven’t built a strong enough reputation and delay on pressing the renegade option to shot him. This is a little to Saren 2.0. I remember how that went.
 
Okay about the Catalyst. I don’t understand. It seems to be synthetic; I see nothing organic about the the catalyst/citadel except the keepers. So it starts the Reaper cycles, to “ascend” technologically advanced organic life, by making them synthetic (the Reapers are synthetic by its own definition, since it describes Shepherd as synthetic), to prevent synthetics (which it is?) from destroying “all” organics. But it simultaneously decides that this perhaps isn’t the best idea, so it leaves the plans for the Crucible lying around. Just in case some organic millions of years later makes it to its chamber (although it really carries Shepherd those last couple steps; and you established that it is millions of years with the civilization that gored the dead reaper in ME2). In that case, he gives you three choices. Perhaps the endings would feel less forced if you arrived at them conversationally rather than just being told “Whoops, my original solution isn’t going to work anymore. In the millions of years I’ve existed I’ve come up with three alternatives. Well really I came up with one, but if you want to use Anderson’s or the Illusive Man’s ideas. Well that works too.” It’s just so forced that it’s awful. I get that the catalyst can read your mind, but to have these endings forced on you sucks.
 
Caveat: If the Catalyst has always been there, why did it allow the Protheans to make the modifications to the Keepers’ that ruins the Reapers from gating in at the citadel? It tells you it has control of the Reapers, seems like it could just flip the switch itself.
 
Let’s talk about the other two endings. So Shepherd takes control of the Reapers, but he dies, but he takes control of the Reapers … How does a dead character control the Reapers exactly? At least in the synthesis ending the Catalyst says that your “essence” will guide the process. Here you just die, but somehow become the boss? I don’t understand.
 
As for the “destroy all synthetic life”, including Shepherd, ending? Wouldn’t that have killed a majority of the human soldiery? Remember Noveria back in ME1, when some Asari wants you to get info from a human and you can talk to him about upgrading Alliance marines. He pretty much made it sound like all human soldiers agree to some level of modification. As do all the biotics, well the human ones anyway, because it’s the implants that give Kaiden headaches right? That option sucks. You’d be killing off tons of humans just to “win”. I mean it was colored orange, so I took that to mean it’s the renegade option. Why save the Geth just to kill them. EDI, I liked you well enough to talk to you and earn your friendship but, well, we just have to die. The greater good … I don’t understand. Plus maybe Shepherd lives in this one, which might just debunk my complaint here about Marines and Biotics.
 
Okay so the shockwave goes out, the Normandy frantically tries to outrun it, I see pictures of Joker, Anderson and Liara (why just these three, I have no idea. I assume that the voice actors were clever in contract discussions), the ship crashes, Joker, your lover (maybe, that’s what it always seemed to be), and EDI (synthesis ending) or someone else (I always got Javik, who was so determined to commit suicide, so I found that ironic) walk out of the ruins. And then the Stargazer talks to the child about the Shepherd.
 
What would I like? Probably an epilogue, or if you want to keep these endings make the conversation with the Catalyst a conversation, not just “here’s your options” dialogue.
 
To play to ball, I will tell you what I like/love about ME.
 
Back in 2007, when ME1 arrived, it couldn’t have come out at a better time for me personally. My mom had just been hospitalized for hemorrhaging, which eventually turned out to be a massive tumor. Your game gave me something to immerse myself in, when I really needed something to engross me. Thanks, my mom ended up fine, and the game really helped keep me calm.
 
I love the story in ME one.
I love getting Liara last in my second run through the game, after Virmire, Feros and Noveria. I loved watching her get all frantic over Shepherd having solved her academic thesis by randomly romping around the galaxy.
I love how saving the Feros colonist played out in ME3.
I hated every minute I had to play corporate on Noveria, but I loved it.
I love teaching Garrus the Paragon’s path only to steal the Normandy in the end and go renegade.
I hated the council’s political quagmire-ing, but I loved it.
I love when Anderson decks Udina. You knew that guy was going to be trouble, and he was.
I love the Geth’s collective networking.
I love the Prothean Sphere rewarded to you for following through on the consort’ mission. What happened to it in ME3?
I hate that to this day I can’t get “Bring Down the Sky” to work on the PC. Can’t you just release it with out needing to authenticate/redeem the code?
I loved the elevator conversations, you worked this out in 3, but I missed them in 2.
I loved Saren as a villain.
 
I love the combat tweaks going from ME1 to ME2.
I loved how all DLC after Kasumi’s had flashbang grenades.
I loved killing the Thresher Maw on foot for Grunt’s loyalty.
Especially, getting the breeding request for doing so.
I love when Samara contemplates teaching the Krogans compassion, and how she’ll need a lot of bullets.
I love the awkward attempts of getting characters to hug and what not.
I missed seeing Elcor in 2, and they are almost absent 3 as well.
I loved the Shadow Broker DLC. All of it was great.
Especially the Shadow Broker.
I loved that Jack worked out better as character than I thought she would.
I loved the expanded romance options.
I hated that the citadel was just floating there doing nothing most of the game.
I loved the Collectors. I know some people wanted a more definitive villain but I thought they just fine.
I loved hating the Illusive Man.
I hated Miranda and Jacob.
I love that ME2 is probably the worst of the trilogy and it’s still a really fun game (excluding of course the final half hour of three).
I’m curious at how things play out with Morinth if you kept her alive.
 
I love that ME3’s combat is better than ME2’s. And that 98% of the story is enjoyable.
I love seeing Liara’s and/or Tali’s romance with you play out.
Although I wish you had made a model for Tali outside of the suit and not just some picture.
Although the picture is better than nothing I suppose.
I loved Tali and Garrus getting together, when I stayed with Liara.
I really, really hated the forced defeat on Thessia, my first playthrough was on Insane difficulty and I could have beaten that assassin guy. Hell, the only hard thing about him on the Cerberus HQ is the adds.
I loved Garrus’ evolution and dialogue in ME3. I was always curious what he was up too.
I loved letting him win the shooting competition.
I loved Javik’s insights although If I hadn’t bought the Collector’s Edition I would probably be pissed about the $10 charge for content that was on the release disc.
I love EDI’s development, although she probably could have let her hair down once or twice.
I love Liara’s time capsules.
I love Kaiden’s tormented dialogue.
I loved how everyone just wanted someone to love.
I didn’t love the multiplayer, but it was a start. I like the try.
I hated all the references to the novels. I’m not going to buy them, sorry.
I loved when Hackett became more than a disembodied voice, in the Arrival.
I wished you spent more time on the non-council races. You teased with them.
I loved Eve, she was a nice counterweight to Wrex.
I wish there was a conversation with Harbinger somewhere in the game.
I wish you wouldn’t use the awkward Bioware points system for DLC purchases.
I’m glad you opened up gay male relationships in ME3.
I loved Shepherds torment over the lost child, barring the end, where it was creepy that the Catalyst took the form of Shepherd’s nightmare.
I love EDI’s jokes.
I wished there was a cinema for the Miracle at Palavan.
I love/”am conflicted about” what the Asari commando did to Joker’s sister. And why can’t I tell him. I was paying attention.
I hated defending the missiles at the end on Insane, but I loved it.
 
I loved your games, I just wished you had stuck with the notion of endings that reflected the long string of player decisions. Also, the rachni ended up being a big disappointment in three, I was really hoping that would play out more.

[Bufardo74]

As a member of the Angry Joe Army, I would be remiss if I didn't add this,



Love him or hate him, he does raise some valid points.

Holding the line.

[Utopianus]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I managed to avoid completely spoiling myself, but I knew people hated it, that Shep died, and that something drastic happened at the very end. i braced myself for the worst.

I could clearly see why people are upset by the ending. The gamer in me hated the ending, its abruptness, its ambiguitity, and its lack of closure. What the hell happened with the Normandy? What happened to the races, and my friends (the ones left living by the end)? I wanted answers! I deserve answers, after who knows how many hours spent playing these games.

After letting the ending stew for a few days, playing some MP, starting an Adept playthrough, I decided I loved the IDEA of the ending, it was just incomplete.

I was reminded of 2001, mixed with some Matrix Revolutions and a side of Contact with Ender's Game. I love where they were going with the ending. I was expected the Dark Energy "mass relays use dark energy and the Reapers ensure everything doesn't die by stopping advanced civilizations from using the relays."

Instead, we got, for lack of a better term, some crazy S**t! Suddenly the game was delving deep into questions about the nature of the universe, time, chaos versus order, intelligent design. I really appreciate what BioWare was trying to do. This is not a videogame ending. It's a terrible videogame ending. But I think its a pretty cool ending to a piece of fiction.

The Starkid represented a vast, incomprehensible sythetic intelligence. While it was certainly the driving force behind the Reapers, I don't think it was directly controlling them like Harby controlled the Collectors. A lot of people have pointed out flaws in the Starkids logic. This makes sense, because it's logic IS flawed. It is trying to maintain an order, a "solution" to what it views as the chaos of organic evolution. This fits with what the Reapers have been telling us all along. Sovvy said "we impose order on the chaos..."

The Starkid's motiviation was not borne out of trying to preserve life, but preserve order. Thus I think the ending s less about the literal "i build synthetics to kill organics to prevent them building synthetics to kill them" and more about deep question of order vs chaos. The cycle, the Crucible, the war against the Reapers, it all comes across as a test. A system established before time by some intelligence (presumably organic: going by the Starkid's own words, he must have been created at some point). The Starkid is the caretaker of this system, the impetus that drives the rotation of the galaxy. The Reapers are just tools of that system. I don't think the Reapers truly understand the nature of their existence, but they do have purpose.

Shepard, as the first organic to compete the Crucible and "activate" the Catalyst, is the literal represention of chaos, just as the Starkid represents order. This diacotomy is also expressed in the final conversation between TIM and Andersen. The Starkid, although seemingly godlike from Shepard's POV, is ultimately just a much a slave to the system as a Reapers and TIM. It's unable to make the final choice, leaving that to Shepard. So really the choices boil down to:

Control: Accept the validity of the system, assuming the Starkid's role as a machine-god maintaining the "old order" of the galaxy (reminds me most of 2001)

Synth: The system is flawed because it only represents one half of the universe's order: the synthetic, logical, scientific approach. It requires the inherently chaotic input of an organic lifeform to achieve balance.

Destroy: The system is flawed beyond repair. It nullifies free will by "determining" the continued, "harvested" existence of organic life is more valuable than the life in of its own. It values preservation of the order over faith in evolution to drive on its own.

This is how I interpreted the endings. I love the idea of these endings. BioWare has some cajones to let Shepard decide the ultimate fate of the galaxy from a metaphysical level.

WHAT I HATE IS THE IMPLEMENTATION

These endings are HUGE. I mean, this is the ultimate choice: you're basically confronted by a god and asked how you think the universe should procede from here. Yet the critics who say the theres only 1 ending, 3 colors, are absolutely right. We aren't shown anything that happened, just some silly "Lost" esque sequence with the Normandy and a bunch of stuff blowing up. What happened to the fleets? Our friends? The Citadel? Th explosions from the relays? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GALAXY AFTER I DETERMINED ITS VERY NATURE???

It's disappointing, because I really believe if BioWare had just provided some closure the fans would have embrace d these endings and the idea behind them. As it is, all we get is the Stargazer thing, which was cool, but all that told was some life survived, along with legends of Shepard. Hell, even just text would have done. Did the geth rebel again? What happened to the fleets? Were all the relays destroyed, and the solar systems with them? Just want answers!!!!!!

TLDR: BioWare, I love the direction that you went with in the ending. I love how you truly tried to transcend the tired videogame format. But as a gamer, I want some closure to the choices I've made throughout this game. Just tell us what happened!

Many a great concept were ruined by the way it was implemented or presented, and from what I gathered by talking to many people, this is one of the main gripes they have regarding the ending, myself included.

So yes, BioWare, if you are reading this, there are many fans out there who don't mind the direction with which the end narrative was going, however the way it was implemented/presented had not done the concept justice, and it may be worthwhile to revisit it.

[Strider Ryoken]

The ending (in all three forms) was dissapointing for one big reason; its main theme of organic/inorganic life and enforced evolution had already been tackled on and handed in much more profound and deep way during the Quarian/Geth scenario; thus the endings lack any kind of punch or emotional investment whatsoever.
Seriously, i was expecting something along the lines of having to choose over sacrificing earth to fully power the crucible or spare earth and fail to kill all the reapers.
Loved the journey through all 3 games, but the ending of the final chapter was uneeded and devoid of any emotional attachment whatsover.

After all, i already had undertaken such final choices in "Deus Ex: human Revolution"

[clipped_wolf]

The scene after the credits makes me feel icky. "The Shepard"? Not even history but legends and myths? Personally I think it would have been nicer to see the galaxy in a year being rebuilt, scientists formulating plans on reconnecting the galactic trade routes (with entangled pairs some long term communications might exist), but no. We get a scene that implies the collapse of galactic civilization. How many millions and billions would have died in the aftermath of the destruction of the trade routes.
The ending scene emphasized the cost of the war, and that is why it doesn't satisfy me. What was gained? Where is the growth?

[balance5050]

This very well done interpretation of Indoctrination theory.

[Mutrumbo]

I just finished ME3 following a completely Paragon path, and I really enjoyed it.  Good job, Bioware!


Finishing all of the story threads and balancing the decisions made through the previous games is difficult.  And, sometimes, the result isn't what we imagined back in ME1, but I think the Bioware team did an excellent and creative job finishing off this immersive story.  I understand some fans aren't happy, and, I can see that perspective, but I really think the story and production team at Bioware did very good job given the size of the task they had.


My short comments about the ending (Yes, Spoilers):





CDR Shepard's sacrifice-
The final moments were gut-wrenching, and I felt pretty sad at the end, but Shepard was a classic heroic figure, and classic heroes willingly sacrifice themselves for their friends/family/loved-ones.  This was a very good ending for Shepard.  Especially since he/she had been able to say farewell to everyone important to him/her before the end.

The fore-shadowing was very effective.  I had a sense of dread about the story's conclusion by the end of the prologue (the first dream sequence).


Paragon, Renegade, or Synthesis-
At first, I didn't understand, from a programmer-perspective, why killing the Reapers (Renegade choice) also required killing the Geth and EDI.  I wanted either the Paragon or Renegade choice to give me everything I wanted... Dead Reapers, and everyone else still alive!
But then I understood what Bioware was trying to do.  Synthesis was the "Best" choice.  That's the option which required the most War Effort to open up, so that's the one where everyone left alive gets to coexist happily.  I totally understand, and I think it's a creative way of dealing with the Paragon vs. Renegade scenario.  It's not how I would have done it, but after running through all 3 possible endings, I like it.

(Only sour note is the Relay exploding part.  We've already seen that blowing up relays destroys all systems close by... so, did Shepard just wipe out all life around the Relays?  Or, was that just over looked?)

Thank you very much, Bioware, for creating a series of games which have given me a couple hundred hours of pleasure!

Modifié par Mutrumbo, 20 mars 2012 - 06:30 .

[Ghettohawk25]

thefallen0412 wrote...



an update to the amazing indoc theory video on youtube. Lets get this thing spread and maybe bioware will see it

after watching this video, its hard for me to argue with the evidence presented. All the quotes and scenes from 1 and 2 that i didn't have a clear memory of along with the codex entries really brought things to light.

Even if you dont think the endings are indoctrination, watch this video and then decide. i'd like to hear aruments against it. This explanation would clear up almost every plothole i can think of.

Modifié par Ghettohawk25, 20 mars 2012 - 06:30 .

[alx119]

Created 5 days ago, almost 300 pages, and all of them with a 80% full of "ending" content. Wow. I am impressed.

[Iconoclaste]

Kiransalee wrote...

Caveat: If the Catalyst has always been there, why did it allow the Protheans to make the modifications to the Keepers’ that ruins the Reapers from gating in at the citadel? It tells you it has control of the Reapers, seems like it could just flip the switch itself.

I read all of your long post. Many things to discuss in there, refreshing. For the quoted matter only, I would suppose this "catalyst" to be wise enough not to reveal itself with this kind of intervention before the need arises. If Shepard had encountered a frightening figure speaking with a thundering voice on the Citadel, just prior to the final decision, would he have felt the same "equivalence" to the choices offered to him?The "child" representation is surely not a random one, since it almost by itself suffices to influence Shepard towards a more "comprehensive" mood.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 20 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[wolfsbane12]

Thornquist wrote...

I LOVED MASS EFFECT 3!
Want all at Bioware to know that.

Mordins death, Thane, Garrus.. I cant choose the best part, there were so many moments of pure genius!

They made me cry over Char's death HE WAS A MINOR CHARACTER IN ME2 AND I STILL CRIED!!!  The team knows story, while i had some problems with the ending, 20 minutes of question in a 40+ hour game, even when its the last 20, cant make me turn my back on the hours of amazing story.

[Twinzam.V]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Kiransalee wrote...

Caveat: If the Catalyst has always been there, why did it allow the Protheans to make the modifications to the Keepers’ that ruins the Reapers from gating in at the citadel? It tells you it has control of the Reapers, seems like it could just flip the switch itself.

I read all of your long post. Many things to discuss in there, refreshing. For the quoted matter only, I would suppose this "catalyst" to be wise enough not to reveal itself with this kind of intervention before the need arises. If Shepard had encountered a frightening figure speaking with a thundering voice on the Citadel, just prior to the final decision, would he have felt the same "equivalence" to the choices offered to him?The "child" representation is surely not a random one, since it almost by itself suffices to influence Shepard towards a more "comprehensive" mood.

But think about it if someone out of nowhere appeared before you with the button to a possible doomsday device, wouldnt you ask for more details before pressing the button. How do you know that he's telling the truth?

[balance5050]

I know what you guys are doing... I know what the "polarizing effect" is all about.... I know what "speculations" you're" referring to....

But I can't "wake up" until you let me... until you release me.... with DLC

[Alesteir]

I'd least have to ask what'd happen to my friend's,my allies,races I helped,my love if the answer's were bad or evasive I'd refuse any of the option's then find my own way. If I'd do that I know shepard would.