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[Exiledone1]

All I know is the ending can't be indoctrination because if the reapers were just messing with his head than how did him making any of the choices cause the destruction of the reapers. Remember, if it was indoctrination it would just be in his head. So nothing going on inside his mind should affect reality....I think lol

[Twinzam.V]

Exiledone1 wrote...

All I know is the ending can't be indoctrination because if the reapers were just messing with his head than how did him making any of the choices cause the destruction of the reapers. Remember, if it was indoctrination it would just be in his head. So nothing going on inside his mind should affect reality....I think lol

Could be that the acceptance of those options was the final push for Sheppard to agree with the Reapers. Hence losing his will and becoming like those other indoctrinated people you encountered , which at that point the game would be unplayable.
Making the destruction option the only viable solution to break the reapers control.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 20 mars 2012 - 07:43 .

[DarthSyphilis59]

Twinzam.V wrote...

Exiledone1 wrote...

All I know is the ending can't be indoctrination because if the reapers were just messing with his head than how did him making any of the choices cause the destruction of the reapers. Remember, if it was indoctrination it would just be in his head. So nothing going on inside his mind should affect reality....I think lol

Could be that the acceptance of those options was the final push for Sheppard to agree with the Reapers. Hence losing his will and becoming like those other indoctrinated people you encountered , which at that point the game would be unplayable.
Making the destruction option the only viable solution to break the reapers control.

I'm noticing that people who dislike the indoctrination theory sometimes don't understand where it starts. The dream sequence starts after shepard gets struck by harbinger's laser and it continues right through the ending.

[frypan]

Jeff Driscoll wrote...

Greetings to everyone,

I'm an avowed lurker, not particularly posting or even visiting these forums much outside of the release periods for the games. That said, after finishing ME3 and reviewing the feedback, I have been motivated to surface.

Warning: Possible Wall of Text approaching, ok, not so much possible as a fact

Spoilers, obviously

Things I Disliked:
The lack of more roleplaying experiences during the opening. I can understand desiring an in media res opening, but after campaigning through ME1/DLC and ME2/DLC, notably Arrival, I was expecting (granted, an assumption) that I would experience a scene more reminiscient of Tali's trial in ME2, with more dialog and debate options. It felt like a missed chance for Paragon/Renegade options that helped to craft the launch of ME3 Shepard. It may have also provided a good launchpad for reviewing the decisions and results being carried forward from save games/default Shepards.

I constantly kept searching for more empathy for the situation on Earth. My Shepard has only tangentally touched Earth, and I found myself more empathetic to the alien races, noticably the Geth, with whom Shepard has spent so much more time, if in some cases, in combat. I wished I could have spent more time moving about in the Earth zones, talking to more people, possibly helping add gravity to the Reaper attack if those people I had only befriended shortly before (in gameplay terms) suddenly died or were saved. The boy in the vent (theories on his importance and later appearance aside) is a good start, but doesn't really deliver the gravity of examples like Mordin (granted, you have more history there). My Shepard has spent years saving the galaxy, not Earth, so I felt a detachment to the whole event that in itself felt misplaced; I should have cared more.

The face import feature failed to import my Shepard, causing her to appear to have had an allergic reaction. This was fairly easy to remedy, but seemed like an area in which weak support had been given, in light of the previous games' success in importing. I really appreciated the codes in ME2 being available for sharing/redo-ing, and I felt a noticable lack of them when I replayed ME1 afterwards.

Mars seemed too short, but in light of the Reapers' approach to Earth, maybe it had to be. Still, I would have liked to spend more time running around in the Prothean site. I did like that I thought it was Miranda at first, not Eva.

Having Ashley out for most of the game was galling. After ME2's Horizon meeting, bridging that gap was very important to me and the absence of her from the party felt contrived and forced. It was like I was being denied for the sake of denial, not for better story. It didn't add anything to the gravity of her injuries or make me feel like she was in danger, it just removed her from my story.

Wrex seemed different. Granted, he's a politician of sorts now, but his voice especially felt off. I missed old Wrex the whole time, although I also missed him in ME2. I'd have loved to have him shooting things with big guns alongside me again.

The Citadel seemed small. In ME1, despite having to endure some decent walks and long elevators rides, the Citadel felt BIG. In ME3, its just too confined and limited.

I was pretty disappointed in the load screens. Load screens, being a console (360) player, are a bane of my existence in general, but they always seem like an opportunity that gets missed. If I have to stare at something for any length of time, make it worth my while. Some screens show tips, similar to ME2, but what about possibly showing random Codex entries? I am not always the most thorough in reading my codex, and I always feel a little shamed because I think BW puts a good bit of effort into them. If the load screen popped up random codex entries I've already discovered, I'd see them more often and they might be more powerful sources of in-game information.

I was grumpy about the Disc swapping. The first N7 mission caused me to have to disc swap, and I felt that it was obivous that the mission should be on the first disc, since it's bound to be tackled virtually immediately. Not so much that I had to get up and go change the disc, but it jarred my immersion a bit and brought me back into reality versus keeping me engaged.

The ending. Lots has been said and I tend to follow the "I don't like it" group. Up until the beam hits Shepard, things are just fine for me. I did not like the slow motion combat as Shepard moves into the beam, lacking powers and all of the things accumulated over the course of the game. While I was expecting a boss fight, I'm not hung up on the absence either, but the encounter with the boy is awkward and feels rushed. It felt like Shepard was witnessing the conversation versus participating in it, a much different experience than the rest of the trilogy. Even my wife, who has witnessed my entirety of my ME1,2 and 3 playthroughs, and enjoys the stories without being a player of them, was taken aback by the ending. Her remark was, "That's all?" I enjoyed the ending of Dragon Age: Origins a lot, even though I wished it had been done in cutscenes instead of text, but I can appreciate the difficulties in attempting that and deciding against cutscenes. Still, after all that we've been through in ME, to not really see where our friends go off to and what are deeds result in was pretty jarring. I agree that ME3 is kind of one big ending, but there are many unanswered questions, more than are answered. The lack of a thorough denouement was basically 'story interruptus'.

I miss the Mako. I think I might be the only one. While trudging across the terrain was tiresome, it did add an element of realism to the game and when the action started, the Mako was a nice change of pace. I think ME1 needed less Mako, but a complete absence felt like I was missing a squadmate. If the Normandy is a 'character', why isn't the Mako? It did, after all, carry you to the Citadel in ME1 to achieve your final victory.


What I liked:

Andersen. Yay. He's our man. I liked him since the beginning of ME1, and his resolute, unwavering personality remain true throughout the series. I like that he cares, that he 'gets it', and that he's on your side.

Joker, Again, yay. He's also our man. He's got the wisecracks, he's got the skills. My only real complaint was that he didn't show up in an Atlas with EDI as an AI assist to blow some BBEG's head to kingdom come when all other hope was lost.

EDI. Maybe a bit of a club over the head in terms of her body, but a nice homage and an interesting dialog tree and general experience in terms of her AI evolution and relationship with Joker.

Companions in different locations and with their own inter-companion dialogs. I really liked that your crew actually debarked to the Citadel and appeared in different locations, even having location specific dialogs. I liked when they talked to each other on board the Normandy. It made them feel more realistic and not just satellites of the Planet Shepard.

ME2 companion sidequests. I especially liked Grissom Academy and Sanctuary. Grissom had so many things tied to it from ME2/DLC/expanded ME universe that it felt very real and woven into ME.

Combat. I am not a 'combat' player. I can't aim worth spit. It's the reason I played a Vanguard in ME1, so I could run up and shoot them in the face with a shotgun. Still, since ME2, I've been a Sentinel and much better at fighting thanks to the improved aspects of combat. I like the new cover system, as I agreed cover was basically all there was to ME2 combat. Hide and shoot, repeat. ME3 was a quantum leap forward. I like that Bad Guys had tactics and different styles and approaches, both in terms of what type of unit they were and also in the 'race' they came from. I like that fighting Cerberus felt different from fighting Reapers, etc.

The thresher maw eating a Reaper. After facing them in ME1 and learning to hate them, it is about time they paid me back. The only thing I fear? When that thing comes back as whatever Reapers turn Thresher Maws into...

Thane. Wow. I loved that whole hospital scene when you first can see him and I loved his death. I loved his intervention versus Leng. His whole arc in ME3. Perfection. Possibly the thing I liked most in the whole game.

Grunt. He's my little baby Wrex. I loved his whole arc in ME3 and I literally dropped my jaw when he came out, blood-soaked, but alive.

The inside jokes are great. A nice nod to the folks that played ME1/2 and to the things we endured, like bad dancing. Very nice touch and a warm and fuzzy feeling.

London. This fight felt like the fight I should have had on Palaven's moon. It finally felt like a war.




That's about all I can muster for now. Overall, a great game, with an abrupt and unsatisfying ending. It's full of great moments, and great adventures, that lead to an expectation of a great ending. The quality of work and the story are beyond peer.

J

Greetings fellow ex lurker

Great points, I pretty much think the same. And the Mako has been missed by a few others too, even with its flaws. The missions really brought out that feeling of being on another planet.

Flesher Maw/Reaper makes the Mako into a snack methinks.

[Midwat]

The ending actually feels malicious - it's mind-boggling to think that Bioware had no idea they'd be pissing everyone off.

I honestly can't replay (or see myself replaying in the future) the Mass Effect games, because literally nothing mattered in the end, It wasn't just bad... it tainted everything that came before it (to me, at least).

[frypan]

frypan wrote...

Jeff Driscoll wrote...

Greetings to everyone,

I'm an avowed lurker, not particularly posting or even visiting these forums much outside of the release periods for the games. That said, after finishing ME3 and reviewing the feedback, I have been motivated to surface.

Warning: Possible Wall of Text approaching, ok, not so much possible as a fact

Spoilers, obviously

Things I Disliked:
The lack of more roleplaying experiences during the opening. I can understand desiring an in media res opening, but after campaigning through ME1/DLC and ME2/DLC, notably Arrival, I was expecting (granted, an assumption) that I would experience a scene more reminiscient of Tali's trial in ME2, with more dialog and debate options. It felt like a missed chance for Paragon/Renegade options that helped to craft the launch of ME3 Shepard. It may have also provided a good launchpad for reviewing the decisions and results being carried forward from save games/default Shepards.

I constantly kept searching for more empathy for the situation on Earth. My Shepard has only tangentally touched Earth, and I found myself more empathetic to the alien races, noticably the Geth, with whom Shepard has spent so much more time, if in some cases, in combat. I wished I could have spent more time moving about in the Earth zones, talking to more people, possibly helping add gravity to the Reaper attack if those people I had only befriended shortly before (in gameplay terms) suddenly died or were saved. The boy in the vent (theories on his importance and later appearance aside) is a good start, but doesn't really deliver the gravity of examples like Mordin (granted, you have more history there). My Shepard has spent years saving the galaxy, not Earth, so I felt a detachment to the whole event that in itself felt misplaced; I should have cared more.

The face import feature failed to import my Shepard, causing her to appear to have had an allergic reaction. This was fairly easy to remedy, but seemed like an area in which weak support had been given, in light of the previous games' success in importing. I really appreciated the codes in ME2 being available for sharing/redo-ing, and I felt a noticable lack of them when I replayed ME1 afterwards.

Mars seemed too short, but in light of the Reapers' approach to Earth, maybe it had to be. Still, I would have liked to spend more time running around in the Prothean site. I did like that I thought it was Miranda at first, not Eva.

Having Ashley out for most of the game was galling. After ME2's Horizon meeting, bridging that gap was very important to me and the absence of her from the party felt contrived and forced. It was like I was being denied for the sake of denial, not for better story. It didn't add anything to the gravity of her injuries or make me feel like she was in danger, it just removed her from my story.

Wrex seemed different. Granted, he's a politician of sorts now, but his voice especially felt off. I missed old Wrex the whole time, although I also missed him in ME2. I'd have loved to have him shooting things with big guns alongside me again.

The Citadel seemed small. In ME1, despite having to endure some decent walks and long elevators rides, the Citadel felt BIG. In ME3, its just too confined and limited.

I was pretty disappointed in the load screens. Load screens, being a console (360) player, are a bane of my existence in general, but they always seem like an opportunity that gets missed. If I have to stare at something for any length of time, make it worth my while. Some screens show tips, similar to ME2, but what about possibly showing random Codex entries? I am not always the most thorough in reading my codex, and I always feel a little shamed because I think BW puts a good bit of effort into them. If the load screen popped up random codex entries I've already discovered, I'd see them more often and they might be more powerful sources of in-game information.

I was grumpy about the Disc swapping. The first N7 mission caused me to have to disc swap, and I felt that it was obivous that the mission should be on the first disc, since it's bound to be tackled virtually immediately. Not so much that I had to get up and go change the disc, but it jarred my immersion a bit and brought me back into reality versus keeping me engaged.

The ending. Lots has been said and I tend to follow the "I don't like it" group. Up until the beam hits Shepard, things are just fine for me. I did not like the slow motion combat as Shepard moves into the beam, lacking powers and all of the things accumulated over the course of the game. While I was expecting a boss fight, I'm not hung up on the absence either, but the encounter with the boy is awkward and feels rushed. It felt like Shepard was witnessing the conversation versus participating in it, a much different experience than the rest of the trilogy. Even my wife, who has witnessed my entirety of my ME1,2 and 3 playthroughs, and enjoys the stories without being a player of them, was taken aback by the ending. Her remark was, "That's all?" I enjoyed the ending of Dragon Age: Origins a lot, even though I wished it had been done in cutscenes instead of text, but I can appreciate the difficulties in attempting that and deciding against cutscenes. Still, after all that we've been through in ME, to not really see where our friends go off to and what are deeds result in was pretty jarring. I agree that ME3 is kind of one big ending, but there are many unanswered questions, more than are answered. The lack of a thorough denouement was basically 'story interruptus'.

I miss the Mako. I think I might be the only one. While trudging across the terrain was tiresome, it did add an element of realism to the game and when the action started, the Mako was a nice change of pace. I think ME1 needed less Mako, but a complete absence felt like I was missing a squadmate. If the Normandy is a 'character', why isn't the Mako? It did, after all, carry you to the Citadel in ME1 to achieve your final victory.


What I liked:

Andersen. Yay. He's our man. I liked him since the beginning of ME1, and his resolute, unwavering personality remain true throughout the series. I like that he cares, that he 'gets it', and that he's on your side.

Joker, Again, yay. He's also our man. He's got the wisecracks, he's got the skills. My only real complaint was that he didn't show up in an Atlas with EDI as an AI assist to blow some BBEG's head to kingdom come when all other hope was lost.

EDI. Maybe a bit of a club over the head in terms of her body, but a nice homage and an interesting dialog tree and general experience in terms of her AI evolution and relationship with Joker.

Companions in different locations and with their own inter-companion dialogs. I really liked that your crew actually debarked to the Citadel and appeared in different locations, even having location specific dialogs. I liked when they talked to each other on board the Normandy. It made them feel more realistic and not just satellites of the Planet Shepard.

ME2 companion sidequests. I especially liked Grissom Academy and Sanctuary. Grissom had so many things tied to it from ME2/DLC/expanded ME universe that it felt very real and woven into ME.

Combat. I am not a 'combat' player. I can't aim worth spit. It's the reason I played a Vanguard in ME1, so I could run up and shoot them in the face with a shotgun. Still, since ME2, I've been a Sentinel and much better at fighting thanks to the improved aspects of combat. I like the new cover system, as I agreed cover was basically all there was to ME2 combat. Hide and shoot, repeat. ME3 was a quantum leap forward. I like that Bad Guys had tactics and different styles and approaches, both in terms of what type of unit they were and also in the 'race' they came from. I like that fighting Cerberus felt different from fighting Reapers, etc.

The thresher maw eating a Reaper. After facing them in ME1 and learning to hate them, it is about time they paid me back. The only thing I fear? When that thing comes back as whatever Reapers turn Thresher Maws into...

Thane. Wow. I loved that whole hospital scene when you first can see him and I loved his death. I loved his intervention versus Leng. His whole arc in ME3. Perfection. Possibly the thing I liked most in the whole game.

Grunt. He's my little baby Wrex. I loved his whole arc in ME3 and I literally dropped my jaw when he came out, blood-soaked, but alive.

The inside jokes are great. A nice nod to the folks that played ME1/2 and to the things we endured, like bad dancing. Very nice touch and a warm and fuzzy feeling.

London. This fight felt like the fight I should have had on Palaven's moon. It finally felt like a war.




That's about all I can muster for now. Overall, a great game, with an abrupt and unsatisfying ending. It's full of great moments, and great adventures, that lead to an expectation of a great ending. The quality of work and the story are beyond peer.

J

Greetings fellow ex lurker

Great points, I pretty much think the same. And the Mako has been missed by a few others too, even with its flaws. The missions really brought out that feeling of being on another planet.

Flesher Maw/Reaper makes the Mako into a snack methinks.

Oops, thats Thresher Maw, unless we need a new name for the hybrid.

[Utopianus]

aggmorpheus wrote...

Instead of crying about the shaft how bout we get together and see if Bioware will let us build mods to add to our games?

Future DLCs not pertaining to an alternative or additional ending will be side quests, side missions and side stories that occur concurrently or before the events of ME3 - Casey Hudson had stated that no new material will be based past the events of ME3, so, if you did not enjoy the ending either due to too little difference in outcome, too few choices or simply didin't like it, then it would impact whether or not you'd want to replay the whole series back from ME1, let alone purchase future DLCs or mod the game.

Modifié par Utopianus, 20 mars 2012 - 07:59 .

[Reverendez]

I have to get this out.

Aspects of the ending I liked. I tried all three choices, naturally, but in the end I felt the best choice for my Shep was synthesis. It broke my heart to watch Shepard dissolve, that was the bitter in the bitter sweet, but I didn't feel there was enough sweet. Most particularly the love interest needs a lot more closure. I was hoping not necessarily a happier ending, as I was sure Shep was going to pass on in some way, but the crew needs to honor him/her. It would depend on who the love interest is, but Liara would most likely hint or blatantly show a little blue micro-Shepard is in her future. All surviving crew needs to put in their two-bits. Not only that, but all the races, all the beings Shepard has left his/her footprint on, negative or positive, need to be represented. Heck, a Montage would suffice, but a chance maybe to play as the love interest, nothing major, just a chance to talk to the crew, raise a glass in toast, have it mostly consist of conversations and cut scenes, whatever. Then end with a teaser. A possible sign that Shepard is still with them in some fashion, depending on the end.choices made.
A flowers and sunshine ending is wrong for Mass effect, but with the bittersweet you need a sense that life goes on, a sense of continuation. I'm not getting much if any of that with the current ending. Yes they crash, there are a couple of survivors, but what are they thinking? The relays are gone, yes, but that means these comrades are cut off from each other, and they just go "oh well"?
Maybe we don't need a new ending choice, one would be great, but mainly I need to see an epilogue. Something real lengthy.
In a few hundred years maybe the Asari start rebuilding the relays? Hey, mass effect 4 right there. I want to play as Liara and Shepards daughter one day.
I know that doesn't work for everyone, but for those that romanced her, that would be awesome soup, it would.
As for DLC, I won't likely be buying any unless it thickens up that ending some. Any that does, I'll scoop it up in a heartbeat, and go back to telling all my friends to play the series. Recently, I've had to warn them that getting invested might not be worth it.

[JDMiller5150]

My overall feeling about the ending is that it was good. But fell far short of my expectations. Here are some questions and comments I actually said out loud (to my brother) when I FIRST finished the game;

"That kid was actually a ghost or w/e?"
"How did the galaxy fair after my decision?"
"I thought mass relays (if destroyed) would wipe out the entire system?"
"The crew crash landed on some oasis planet? It cant be earth, but it looks like no other planet in Sol? Where are they?"
*Ash steps out of Normandy* "I took ash with me in the final sprint for the beam... to my knowledge, "The entire force was decimated". How is she alive?!"

And then, of course, that last damn line of the game...

"ONE... MORE... STOOOOORRRRRRYYYYYY..............."

[Bonecrushah]

I post this in the hopes that it will lead to a change or improvement to the ending of Mass Effect 3, which is something I fully support, having just completed it. It doubles as my love note to the series and criticism of the ending, but it’s long, so good luck.

               To me, the ending can be summed up in three words: Deus Ex Machina. I was very surprised by this, considering the superb quality of writing throughout both the series as a whole and 99% of Mass Effect 3. In fact, I didn’t believe for a moment that the ending could be bad, despite all the article titles saying so that I kept seeing on the Internet, because all the writing had been so intricately woven, both within the game and through resolving the plots from past games.
              But when I finally did experience it, I understood. There was something off and people didn’t feel right about it.
              It felt like everything that happened after arriving on the Citadel was given to a separate, isolated cell of writers, much like Cerberus, and created separately, with only minimal information about the previous plot as a foundation. It’s inconsistent, both in story and atmosphere.

Mass Effect 1 was all about chasing Saren and the search for the Conduit. When talking to Vigil, it was revealed that the Conduit was a backdoor to the Citadel. It was brilliant because there was a visual set-up* right in the Presidium that any player could ask Avina about. Even if they didn’t, seeing the Mako shoot out of that supposed statue of the Mass Relay was enough to create an “OMG it was there right under our noses the whole time!” moment, as well as being an ingenious way within the story universe to get into the heart of the galaxy’s main controlling
force. A great pay-off to say the least, which was coupled with an insane battle raging outside against Sovereign. Bad guys die, good guys win, which is traditional, but that’s because it works.

Mass Effect 2’s main storyline was about a suicide mission into an unknown frontier and it put the plot and the fate of so many characters into the player’s hands; the actions of the player throughout the game affected the ending
in so many ways and it was beautiful.
                     Didn’t do a loyalty mission? That character isn’t focused on the suicide mission and dies. Didn’t feel the need to buy upgrades to the Normandy because you thought you could take on the Collectors with the sheer force of hope? Sucks for you, even more people died because of that.
                    Then once you get onto the Collector base, a surprising new gameplay mechanic was thrown in; you had to split up your squad! But the first time I ever played through ME2, my entire squad survived. Why? Because this surprise in the gameplay made complete sense from a story perspective.
                   Of course I would send Garrus as the leader of the other Fire Team; his loyalty mission was all about him avenging the death of his team. Of course I would send Tali in as the engineer; she’s the best damn Quarian tech in the galaxy! Of course I would use Jack as my biotic specialist; she’s the meanest biotic **** around! It all made sense. Set-up, pay-off. And the best part was that it was completely in our control as the players.

And this is where the ending to Mass Effect 3 really stumbles. I cured the genophage and brought an entire race of
krogan out of the spiraling pathway to extinction so they could unite with those that oppressed them to fight the Reapers. I made peace between the geth and the quarians in their 300 year war and gave myself even more powerful allies. I resurrected the last living Prothean so that he could exact vengeance upon the race that wiped his out (only
available in From Ashes DLC).
                So why does the fate of the ENTIRE galaxy depend on a choice that was thrown at me in the final minutes of the game? Yes, there were set-ups mentioning the Illusive Man’s desire to control the Reapers. Yes, there was indication that the Crucible was an unknown device that nobody knew what would happen when they used it. But where was there any indication that the Catalyst was some sort of...energy god/being that controls the Reapers, who is either taking the form of the boy haunting Shepard’s dreams (to convey guilt?) or IS the little boy (doubtful but still
plausible...somehow). What?
                 But let’s backtrack a little bit. Back to moments before, with the Illusive Man. The Illusive Man’s presence in the final chamber alone raises many questions, but that’s just a detail. Throughout the game, it was established that the Illusive Man wanted to control the Reapers. But his motivations became too one-dimensional:
“I’m doing it for humanity!”. That’s been established before; it’s Cerberus’ whole selling point, but it becomes shallow and predictable as a result when that IS the only reason he’s doing any of this, especially for such a mysterious character as the Illusive Man. As a result, it became “something something Indoctrination!” and his demise
became the exact same story, beat by beat, as Saren, right up to his suicide (I went Paragon). There’s an entire comic book series detailing his backstory, which could easily help flesh him out.
                  Anyway, back to the Catalyst; how can the entire ending of the Mass Effect series be simplified to the conflict between synthetics and organics? Yes, it’s been a theme throughout the series, but the question of “can
synthetics and organics truly coexist?” has never been the forefront of the game as a whole. It has for the conflict between the quarians and the geth, which was resolved wonderfully on Rannoch, providing a damn hard choice between saving or killing them. But players had the time to ponder the philosophical implications over the courses of 3 games: the geth were near mindless enemies in the first game, then revealed to be the heretics of an intelligent species, then victims defending against a quarian attack. There was the option to see both sides and think over
the choices to be made. With the Reapers, there was the question of killing or controlling them raised throughout the game, but to bring in some last minute godlike being that turned out to be responsible for controlling “order and
chaos” without any elaboration is basically the definition of Deus Ex Machina.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved this game. There are so many amazing moments within it that it’s easier to pick out three things I disliked than to name all of the parts that made me laugh, cry, or say “holy ****!”, which makes it even more important that the ending needs to be changed. Not just for us, the fans, but for yourselves. The entirety of Mass Effect 3 is a beautiful buildup to the final battle; a gigantic set-up, not just in single player, but also multiplayer. To end on a note that was never played throughout the symphony of this brilliant trilogy is not only a below-the-belt blow to the fans, but an insult to yourselves as artists and storytellers. We know you can do better. If you’re worried about money, don’t; a lot of people will pay to get the satisfaction of the ending that they not only deserve, but know that you’re capable of.

-JT


*To anyone reading that doesn’t know about the concept of set-ups and pay-offs: these are devices in writing, especially screenplays, that are used to create resonance, moments of “ooh, I remember that!”, but they can also be used in other ways. Kind of like foreshadowing, but not always as clear cut. For example, in Raiders of the Lost Ark, when Indiana Jones sees the snake in his lap, he says “I hate snakes!”. Then, when he’s thrown into the pit full of snakes later in the film, it’s FULL of freaking snakes; his greatest fear. We feel and fear for him because it was set-up previously. Another example is the music you hear while speaking with the Illusive Man is the theme set-up in ME2, and paid-off whenever you hear it in ME3.

Modifié par Bonecrushah, 20 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[JDMiller5150]

This whole "Indoctrination Theory" kept me up last night. (Not exagerating) Its so outta this world because (if its true at all) not only was shepard indoctrinated, WE, THE PLAYER, WAS INDOCTRINATED. I've never experienced a game like this.

Now, I cant claim to know what Bioware has planned for the series. Whether it be a sequel, added content, or some third thing. BUT the ending AS IS isn't great. Too many loose ends (SEE MY LAST POST).

Somethings that should be considered though;

If there is in fact another ending or "actual" ending on the way, I'm gunna be REALLY upset if I have to pay for it. I would consider that sort of DLC as additional content. I would consider it as a major chapter in the story. I payed 60 bucks at the store to buy THE WHOLE GAME. I surely do not want to pay 10 bucks more because a chunk of the game was missing.

I'm not saying I wouldn't pay it, I'm just saying I would be LIVID.

That isn't to say there shouldn't be any DLC.
I really want to know the repercussions of the "final decision", if it is valid at all. OR find out just how deep the rabbit hole goes as far as Shepard's indoctrination is concerned.

MY FINAL THOUGHT:

BIOWARE, you have the gaming world in a frenzy, but I can say with confidence that you guys are cooking up something that will absolutely BLOW OUR MINDS. I have too much faith in Bioware. With that in mind, I bestow my faith in Bioware to really follow-through on this game and series. Whether or not this ending was by your design, or if you were hoping to guage our reaction before continuing, I believe you guys are about to drop an atom bomb right into our gaming world. This is the pinnacle of gaming, without question.

I LOVE THIS GAME.
Thank you Bioware.

[JDMiller5150]

Midwat wrote...

The ending actually feels malicious - it's mind-boggling to think that Bioware had no idea they'd be pissing everyone off.

I honestly can't replay (or see myself replaying in the future) the Mass Effect games, because literally nothing mattered in the end, It wasn't just bad... it tainted everything that came before it (to me, at least).

Yeah man. I felt that way at the end as well. Maybe not as pissed, but I was like "I cant believe its over..."

I STILL dont believe its over. I think Bioware has us right where they want us, because this series is FAR from over. They're cooking something up. I can feel it. Lets all wait and see... Its about to get good...

[MassSingularityGun]

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...



I'm noticing that people who dislike the indoctrination theory sometimes don't understand where it starts. The dream sequence starts after shepard gets struck by harbinger's laser and it continues right through the ending.

I agree. I think they should push this option very hard as it would pass and keep it to where they do not have to redo this part of the game, but simply add content after, when you see Sheperd breath at that cutscene.

[Twinzam.V]

JDMiller5150 wrote...

This whole "Indoctrination Theory" kept me up last night. (Not exagerating) Its so outta this world because (if its true at all) not only was shepard indoctrinated, WE, THE PLAYER, WAS INDOCTRINATED. I've never experienced a game like this.

Now, I cant claim to know what Bioware has planned for the series. Whether it be a sequel, added content, or some third thing. BUT the ending AS IS isn't great. Too many loose ends (SEE MY LAST POST).

Somethings that should be considered though;

If there is in fact another ending or "actual" ending on the way, I'm gunna be REALLY upset if I have to pay for it. I would consider that sort of DLC as additional content. I would consider it as a major chapter in the story. I payed 60 bucks at the store to buy THE WHOLE GAME. I surely do not want to pay 10 bucks more because a chunk of the game was missing.

I'm not saying I wouldn't pay it, I'm just saying I would be LIVID.

That isn't to say there shouldn't be any DLC.
I really want to know the repercussions of the "final decision", if it is valid at all. OR find out just how deep the rabbit hole goes as far as Shepard's indoctrination is concerned.

MY FINAL THOUGHT:

BIOWARE, you have the gaming world in a frenzy, but I can say with confidence that you guys are cooking up something that will absolutely BLOW OUR MINDS. I have too much faith in Bioware. With that in mind, I bestow my faith in Bioware to really follow-through on this game and series. Whether or not this ending was by your design, or if you were hoping to guage our reaction before continuing, I believe you guys are about to drop an atom bomb right into our gaming world. This is the pinnacle of gaming, without question.

I LOVE THIS GAME.
Thank you Bioware.

To that i would say "Ahahahaha nice move Bioware! Please never do that again.....".
Of course this only works "if" they make the DLC.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 20 mars 2012 - 08:22 .

[Narcyyst]

 I agree with the sentiments expressed throughout this thread. I finished yesterday and my initial fears of surprise that it ended so abruptly became sadness when I realised that I actually had such limited choices and that I would never find out what happened to my friends. 

I guess I'll have to work through it if this is how it ends- I wish they would just come out and say it one way or the other. I keep hoping to find they'll offer us a bit of optional DLC with a more complex ending.

I would have thought the choices should have been something like that:

-take control of the reapers, but lose contact with my friends & deal with the consequences of becoming one with the synthetics (a reasonable choice for those who didn't think the IM had it completely wrong)
-destroy the reapers, but run the risk of destroying the Earth
-forcing the reapers back into Dark Space, but knowing things would repeat in 50 000 years.

Broadly, depending on my galactic readiness, different consequences could have happened in terms of:
-me surviving or not (for instance, if I tried to destroy the reapers, but wasn't "ready" enough, could die)
-how many of my friends survived
-how much of the fleet survived

And then, regardless of the option, an epilogue particularly focussing on the lvoe interest and close relationships. Or, if I survived, the start of my recovery from the no doubt horrific injuries. 

I want to be clear- I *loved* this game. It was amazing. Apart from the last 2 minutes. Even that scene between Anderson and Shepard after the Crucible docks was just beautiful. Part of my sadness is def about the end of this great series- but mostly, it's about the unsatisfying end.

[DanTheMilkman]

Just finished the game and I have that "stomach" feeling people have described. One second I'm about to save the galaxy and 10 minutes later everyone is dead.

[Shaun2406]

Okay with respect to the endings:

I'd split the destroy ending into two parts... Make it so that the crucible's energy wave will destroy any sort of reaper construct and that you can choose to fire the pulse over the entire galaxy (which destroys all reapers, the geth, edi, the mass relays) or only the sol system (which doesn't destroy the relay, the pulse doesn't reach Charon, but only destroys the reapers in system, meaning that while the reapers will be mostly wiped out, the few that remain on Thessia, Palaven, etc will continue to severely damage those planets until whats left of your fleet can mop them up, resulting in even more military losses, and perhaps even ultimate defeat if your ems is too low). Further, only firing the pulse in the sol system means that excess energy can not be dissapated by the citadel, and it explodes, though Shepard may survive this if EMS is high enough (though it should be a high threshold).

Control should require Shepard to cease to exist as a human but NOT destroy the relays, and instantly pacify all reapers in the galaxy... Basically meaning that while it means Shepard becomes perhaps more powerful than he should, and 'dies' as a human, the galaxy is left in a good state.

Synthesis... Should probably be dropped. Its a nice idea, but really comes out of left field and doesn't make much sense in my opinion (an energy pulse destroying reaper tech/controller reaper tech maybe, but somehow merging organics with synthetics...? Its a bit beyond me)... Maybe add an ending where Shepard can merge with the reapers as an equal with high enough EMS, or is forcibly assimilated if EMS is too low... This may require modifying the reapers 'cause' to be more sympathetic...

Furthermore, the two modes of the destroy ending are facilitated by the crucible as built by the alliance, and the control by TIM modifying part of the citadel/catalyst after he boards the citadel and prior to succumbing to indoctrination while waiting for the crucible to arrive... This means the starchild is not required, and Harbinger can instead attempt to convince you to aid the Reapers by explaining their purpose as you prepare to fire the crucible (obviously a reason will need to be given for him not just destroying you, but this can come down to EMS as well).

I apologize for the wall of text, and no, I don't demand change the ending to this, or think its perfect, but its just a way for them to (in my opinion) keep the bittersweet tone they were going for while still fitting with the rest of the story! (and yeah, it'd probably require too much work to be feasible, but its fun to speculate! )

[hchadw]

JDMiller5150 wrote...

This whole "Indoctrination Theory" kept me up last night. (Not exagerating) Its so outta this world because (if its true at all) not only was shepard indoctrinated, WE, THE PLAYER, WAS INDOCTRINATED. I've never experienced a game like this.

Now, I cant claim to know what Bioware has planned for the series. Whether it be a sequel, added content, or some third thing. BUT the ending AS IS isn't great. Too many loose ends (SEE MY LAST POST).

Somethings that should be considered though;

If there is in fact another ending or "actual" ending on the way, I'm gunna be REALLY upset if I have to pay for it. I would consider that sort of DLC as additional content. I would consider it as a major chapter in the story. I payed 60 bucks at the store to buy THE WHOLE GAME. I surely do not want to pay 10 bucks more because a chunk of the game was missing.

I'm not saying I wouldn't pay it, I'm just saying I would be LIVID.

That isn't to say there shouldn't be any DLC.
I really want to know the repercussions of the "final decision", if it is valid at all. OR find out just how deep the rabbit hole goes as far as Shepard's indoctrination is concerned.

MY FINAL THOUGHT:

BIOWARE, you have the gaming world in a frenzy, but I can say with confidence that you guys are cooking up something that will absolutely BLOW OUR MINDS. I have too much faith in Bioware. With that in mind, I bestow my faith in Bioware to really follow-through on this game and series. Whether or not this ending was by your design, or if you were hoping to guage our reaction before continuing, I believe you guys are about to drop an atom bomb right into our gaming world. This is the pinnacle of gaming, without question.

I LOVE THIS GAME.
Thank you Bioware.

I feel ya... i have this gut feeling they have something big planned... i hope anyways..

I kinda like the indoctrinated theory alot.   Seen a vid that pointed out somethings i didnt even think about...just hope its soon... the reapers are breaking my will to do MORE PLAY THROUGHS!

[Vlad1113]

Dear Bioware,
As you are with NO DOUBT aware by now most of us as extremely unhappy with the weak, unexplained and minisculy different endings that Mass Effect 3 had. You also know by now how much prior to the game release we were selling our souls to get people to buy into which was until the ending of number 3 an incredible epic SCI FI story.
We are your fans we have stood with you through all of the material you have made predominately for the good, one or two a bit mediocre..but none the less we are the ones who have helped make your intellectual property WORTH so much.

You are maybe asking yourselves what do we do now?

Ok take as an example a company to whon you sold your old engine too back in 2007, CDProjeckt who made an incredible RPG called the Witcher....not only did they seek and get a lot of fan input after the first release of the game they made an Enchanced Edition for the fans and re packed their remaining stock with the new material...all in all very good.
They went onto realease The Witcher 2 this time a step forward for them, an excellent game great ending very few issues...but thats not enough for CDProjeckt....they are now releasing The Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition free of charge to those who have the game, not only clearing a few minor issues but adding content, characters and plot additions.

If you want to know how to treat your customers and keep them loyal Mr C Hudson, look at the little Polish company because they have you beaten.
Truly ignore us and we may be writing on a CDProjeckt Social Forum in a couple of years with their equivalent of Dragon Age to play and your new one lying on shelfs generally forgotten.

[Tehzim]

I just want an option to say no to the star-child.  Synthetics and Organics CAN live together, but if the only choice is destruction I won't use this device and we'll do our best with the army we have. Maybe we live, maybe we die, but I won't condemn a race/people/universe just to win.

Then a procedural cutscene plays out like in ME 2 where if you do X then this person dies, or if you do Y they live. For example the Geth fleet is getting rocked, but if you made an alliance between them and the quarians, they show up and help out.

Ultimately if your EMS is high enough you win. But the decisions you made along the way shape who and what is left. Maybe that's a lot of work, but if we're dreaming, I'm star gazing.

Modifié par Tehzim, 20 mars 2012 - 08:47 .

[Killashandria]

This is pretty darn awesome. The 'Retake Mass Effect' group now have their own war assets page. You report in, state where your from and 'join' as a particular war asset. For example 'Adelaide Infiltrators Squad'. It's a fun way to put your feelings out there.

http://lugoentertain...3ending/#!/Home

[the-cniht]

Since there are over three hundred pages on this thread I can skip the lead up to my two cents.

Gameplay was good but it felt short compared to other ME games.  I think I blew through this thing completely in roughly 20-25 hours doing everything. 

Endings were not good.  They were also almost a completely blatant rip off of Deus Ex: Human Revolution in style and delivery.

Modifié par the-cniht, 20 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[Gosia]

Midwat wrote...

The ending actually feels malicious - it's mind-boggling to think that Bioware had no idea they'd be pissing everyone off.

I honestly can't replay (or see myself replaying in the future) the Mass Effect games, because literally nothing mattered in the end, It wasn't just bad... it tainted everything that came before it (to me, at least).

Same here:(

[Ilzairspar]

Shaun2406 wrote...

Okay with respect to the endings:

I'd split the destroy ending into two parts... Make it so that the crucible's energy wave will destroy any sort of reaper construct and that you can choose to fire the pulse over the entire galaxy (which destroys all reapers, the geth, edi, the mass relays) or only the sol system (which doesn't destroy the relay, the pulse doesn't reach Charon, but only destroys the reapers in system, meaning that while the reapers will be mostly wiped out, the few that remain on Thessia, Palaven, etc will continue to severely damage those planets until whats left of your fleet can mop them up, resulting in even more military losses, and perhaps even ultimate defeat if your ems is too low). Further, only firing the pulse in the sol system means that excess energy can not be dissapated by the citadel, and it explodes, though Shepard may survive this if EMS is high enough (though it should be a high threshold).

Control should require Shepard to cease to exist as a human but NOT destroy the relays, and instantly pacify all reapers in the galaxy... Basically meaning that while it means Shepard becomes perhaps more powerful than he should, and 'dies' as a human, the galaxy is left in a good state.

Synthesis... Should probably be dropped. Its a nice idea, but really comes out of left field and doesn't make much sense in my opinion (an energy pulse destroying reaper tech/controller reaper tech maybe, but somehow merging organics with synthetics...? Its a bit beyond me)... Maybe add an ending where Shepard can merge with the reapers as an equal with high enough EMS, or is forcibly assimilated if EMS is too low... This may require modifying the reapers 'cause' to be more sympathetic...

Furthermore, the two modes of the destroy ending are facilitated by the crucible as built by the alliance, and the control by TIM modifying part of the citadel/catalyst after he boards the citadel and prior to succumbing to indoctrination while waiting for the crucible to arrive... This means the starchild is not required, and Harbinger can instead attempt to convince you to aid the Reapers by explaining their purpose as you prepare to fire the crucible (obviously a reason will need to be given for him not just destroying you, but this can come down to EMS as well).

I apologize for the wall of text, and no, I don't demand change the ending to this, or think its perfect, but its just a way for them to (in my opinion) keep the bittersweet tone they were going for while still fitting with the rest of the story! (and yeah, it'd probably require too much work to be feasible, but its fun to speculate! )

You should never apologize for a well thought out suggestion.   It sounds pretty interesting.  I admit that I'm one of the people who would like the "indoctrination theory' but that has more to do with ease of use (Just add the 'new' ending after the old one) than anything else.  It's been almost a week since I finished the game and I still can't bring myself to play a new game with my other ME2 saves.  Just, what's the point you know?

I'd like to say I have faith in Bioware to make it right, but I've gotten Cynical in my old age and have the back of my mind fear that they will find a way to stiff us.  I know I shouldn't, but well your a corporation.  I've had too many years where the corporate masters at my old job would cut our hours so they could get their bonus I think.


I've been with you guys since Baulder's Gate, though only on the forums for 2 years, please don't let my cynical side be right.  I'm going to keep Holding the Line and hope that you are both 'listening' and actually hearing us.

EDIT: I would like to add that while I don't NEED a happy ending, I would like if we got at least one option for one.  I'm not talking about "Disney" everything is perfect ending.  This is a game with a war in it, no one will get out unscathed.  But out of the 5, 6 endings (where your decisions matter again), having one or two where you make it through to eventually meet up with you LI again would be nice.  My male Shep romanced Jack and she's had enough bad stuff happen in her life, she deserves a happy ending.

Modifié par Ilzairspar, 20 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[frypan]

Shaun2406 wrote...

Okay with respect to the endings:

I'd split the destroy ending into two parts... Make it so that the crucible's energy wave will destroy any sort of reaper construct and that you can choose to fire the pulse over the entire galaxy (which destroys all reapers, the geth, edi, the mass relays) or only the sol system (which doesn't destroy the relay, the pulse doesn't reach Charon, but only destroys the reapers in system, meaning that while the reapers will be mostly wiped out, the few that remain on Thessia, Palaven, etc will continue to severely damage those planets until whats left of your fleet can mop them up, resulting in even more military losses, and perhaps even ultimate defeat if your ems is too low). Further, only firing the pulse in the sol system means that excess energy can not be dissapated by the citadel, and it explodes, though Shepard may survive this if EMS is high enough (though it should be a high threshold).

Control should require Shepard to cease to exist as a human but NOT destroy the relays, and instantly pacify all reapers in the galaxy... Basically meaning that while it means Shepard becomes perhaps more powerful than he should, and 'dies' as a human, the galaxy is left in a good state.

Synthesis... Should probably be dropped. Its a nice idea, but really comes out of left field and doesn't make much sense in my opinion (an energy pulse destroying reaper tech/controller reaper tech maybe, but somehow merging organics with synthetics...? Its a bit beyond me)... Maybe add an ending where Shepard can merge with the reapers as an equal with high enough EMS, or is forcibly assimilated if EMS is too low... This may require modifying the reapers 'cause' to be more sympathetic...

Furthermore, the two modes of the destroy ending are facilitated by the crucible as built by the alliance, and the control by TIM modifying part of the citadel/catalyst after he boards the citadel and prior to succumbing to indoctrination while waiting for the crucible to arrive... This means the starchild is not required, and Harbinger can instead attempt to convince you to aid the Reapers by explaining their purpose as you prepare to fire the crucible (obviously a reason will need to be given for him not just destroying you, but this can come down to EMS as well).

I apologize for the wall of text, and no, I don't demand change the ending to this, or think its perfect, but its just a way for them to (in my opinion) keep the bittersweet tone they were going for while still fitting with the rest of the story! (and yeah, it'd probably require too much work to be feasible, but its fun to speculate! )

LIke the idea that they drop the synthesis approach. A lot of folks chose it as a less painful option but it really didnt fit with the story, at least not in the way it was presented. Plus, any change that gives Harbinger the big kiss off is good, even if its just some famous last words.

Bringing in the EMS in a more meaningful way is great too. The type of points gathered could have been used to some more effect at the end. Wishful thinking, sure,  but speculation beats disappointment until we hear what Bioware intends to do.