23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Strik3r889123]

Please bioware we need a new ending!
use the indoctrination theory!

these endings are not logical and are too sad!
i want a happy ending, PLEASE listen to your fans! This saga speak of hope, so you have to make more choices....
I love this saga! i've played ME five times, ME2 four times and ME3 unless something changes it will never play no more!
is too sad .... I want my final with Liara!

don't listen to journalists they aren't fans!

[dfdsgrgre]

Has bioware actualy said anything about the endings

[clarkusdarkus]

iv'e decided most of the game felt rushed and unbalanced and the endings take the focus off that so remake the whole series and let me know in 5 years when u are finished

[Gungelion]

to me the three ending's are

blue: enslavement

red: death

green: surrender

either way you're letting the "reaper king" win

i'm reminded of the last episode of tengen toppa gurren lagann


Even if we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth,
the feelings that were left behind will open the door!
Even if we were to face against the infinite universe,
our burning blood will cut through fate!.
Kamina and Simon (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)


Whether it be time, space or alternate realities, they mean nothing to us.
We will pierce the paths and methods you've chosen. That is who we are, The Dai-Gurren Brigade!!.
(Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)


Anti-Spiral/reaper king "We Anti-Spirals were once a Spiral race like yourselves. But when we learned that the evolution of Spiral Power would lead to the destruction of the universe, we annihilated all those who possessed the power of the Spiral, and drove the few surviving life forms to the far corners of the universe. We halted our own evolution and locked ourselves away into this pocket universe! On our homeworld we sealed away our bodies and any hope of evolution! This form is the symbol of our determination! Foolish creatures, drunk on your Spiral Power! Do you posses the resolve to do that!? We defended the universe by killing our fellow spirals and halting our own evolution. Do you possess the sheer fortitude that is on par with that?! Do you?! We say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not! at! all!!! You possess neither will! Nor resolve! Nor reason!!"

Simon/shepard "No that's your limitation! You sit here closed off, locking away other life forms like some kind of king! That's nobody's limitation but your own! Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe! And that hole will be a path for those behind us! The dreams of those who've fallen! The hopes of those who'll follow! Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix! Drilling a path towards tomorrow! And that's Tengen Toppa! That's Gurren Lagann!! My drill is the drill...that creates the heavens!!!"

[Mastone]

dfdsgrgre wrote...

Has bioware actualy said anything about the endings

Resistance is futile get ready to be assimilated LOL
I believe Casey has replied to it somewhere that it was al intended like this...

[Bluefuse]

BioWare. At least tell us that you're working on something, not that you're only listening right now. It's obvious that you need to address your fans and do something about it before your fans get so frustrated that they are done with you.

[wolfeye7]

Well guys, getting late over here. Remember to keep it civil and polite.

Hold the line!

[BLACKOUT228]

Am I the only one who thinks the indoctrination theory is dumb?

[Bluefuse]

BLACKOUT228 wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks the indoctrination theory is dumb?

You're the first person I've heard say that.

[DreGregoire]

I have to say that I really enjoyed the whole Mass Effect series and the endings were (to me) mind blowing and extremely satisfying as a completion to an awesome idea and trilogy. Just Amazing. Thanks for the great Mass Effect Games!

<3

Modifié par DreGregoire, 20 mars 2012 - 09:45 .

[Esuzu1]

BLACKOUT228 wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks the indoctrination theory is dumb?

No. We have tried to make them realise it is. The indoc-theory is just people last straw of hope. "Bioware had a master plan after all". It is too far fetched.

[wsandista]

BLACKOUT228 wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks the indoctrination theory is dumb?

No, you are not, many think people think it's just trying to justify the space-magic and plotholes

As many people have said when you prefer a hallucination instead of the ending you got, you know that ending had to be terrible.

[Frostfiend]

I hope BW will start making new endings soon. I want to replay the games, they are fantastic, but with that ending I just can't do it.

[Dak the Pious One]

My favorite part in Mass Effect 3? Would probably have to be a tie between the Quarian missions (Seeing the space battles between the Geth and Quarian Fleet was fantastic) and the final conversation you have between the Illusive man and Anderson.

BUT:
After all of that and after you make the final end decision, I was incredibly disappointed by the cookie-cutter endings. To me, they are all pretty much the same right after Shepard makes His/Her decision. What happened to the diverse amount of endings (16 as you guys said) we were promised?

The endings are 95% the same, with slight differences.

I can put white frosting on my chocolate chip cookie, but it's still the same damn type of chocolate chip cookie that I ate before this one.

[Archonsg]

BLACKOUT228 wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks the indoctrination theory is dumb?

I don't think its dumb.

Its plausible but is flawed in several ways that if one would to calm down and think about it carefully, render Shepard as "unplayable" in the lead role. I don't want that. I do not want a compromised zombie shepard and based on a number of posts and "proofs" they still don't seem to want to see that as long as Shepard is "indoctrinated" no matter if he somehow "breaks free" he is not "Shepard as we know him or her to be. 

But who am I to spit on the hopes of others?

[Leem_0001]

I've heard a lot about the Indoc-theory, but never looked in to it too much. I'm guessing it's based on the fact that everything we see following the beam blast from Harbinger (after Shep is injured and wakes up) is all a hallucination caused by indoctrination?

One question on that? When we see Shep take a breath in London (destroy ending), could it not also be called a dream? Why is it specifically an indoctrination if he is unconcious?

I don't ask that to cause trouble or kick people's theories - it's a genuine question.

[MaddestHatter]

Leem_0001 wrote...

MaddestHatter wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Ah - then if you weren't aware of the promises made I can see why it isn't an issue to you. Can I ask if you played the other ME games or just ME3?

But if you came into the game with no expectations, and are thrilled with it, I am happy for you. Genuinely. And to all those that liked it, the same goes - and a bit jealous as you got the experience I was hoping for lol. For me this argument isn't (or shouldn't be) between gamers.

It was the expectation of what was promised, and how that promise wasn't delievered on that has upset a lot of people.

Yes, i've played every game, multiple times, i agree on this shouldn't be an argument between gamers.
On some occasion i understand why people are startled on scenes like the normandy flying somewhere and stuff. so we i won't say it doesn't make sense, since we don't know what acutally happened and why this happened. I too am quite curious about an explanation or an dlc as epilogue or something.
As for my game experience of all three games, all the parts are fitting for me, for the arguement that sheppard should have the choice of rejection and fight, i don't think this would've been in his interest, since he wanted to survice no matter what, rejection would've simply ended in extinction on my view.

But i have to say it is nice to have such an peacefully argument.

Yeah, debate is good, and as we agreed it shouldn't be between gamers.

There are obviously people who like everything as it is, and that's great for them - so if optional endings were released via DLC that tied up the concerns many had, the I think Bioware would go someway to resolving this.

But except for the new questions, like why did joker and you team flew away. what do you want/ exptected to happen or wish to happen as well?

[I am Sovereign]

DreGregoire wrote...

I have to say that I really enjoyed the whole Mass Effect series and the endings were (to me) mind blowing and extremely satisfying as a completion to an awesome idea and trilogy. Just Amazing. Thanks for the great Mass Effect Games!

<3

Can't tell if serious or trolling...

[mrfantomas698]

 So,

I was reading the article form newsarama.com called 10 thins mass effect fans must know from tie-ins.  On #8 they talk about the novel "Mass Effect: Assention" and a character named Paul Grayson whom becomes indoctrinated and I found it to be interesting at least with respect to the indoctrination (or Dream)  theory.  Heres a little piece:

"Through Grayson, we see the brutal process of indoctrination. In the beginning, Grayson still has control of his body while the Reapers "sleep." But even in the early stages of indoctrination, the Reapers have latched onto his thoughts, making him believe they are his own. Grayson contemplates ending his life, but after "losing a vessel once before" to suicide (Saren), they are able to manipulate him into thinking he has decided that would be cowardly."

(Also in this article they discuss the possibility of the illusive man being indoctrinated during the first contact war.)

This just sounds familiar to me, the choice at the end: destruction / assimilation / control.  Obviously this subject has been beaten to death and i'm sure that anybody keeping up with this thread has herd about the indoctrination theory, so I wont go into that.  However, I will say that I found this to be one of the greatest gaming experiences i've ever had, and I believe the ending to be intentional, all the little details that seem to make no sense, are there on purpose.  Not sure where it will go from here but it has been a hell of a ride.

Also I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but why was the illusive man able to make Shep shoot Anderson at the end?

Modifié par mrfantomas698, 20 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[karek]

Same reason why the ship always escapes the collector space. Joker is the narrator, he can't die no matter what.

[Mastone]

I am Sovereign wrote...

DreGregoire wrote...

I have to say that I really enjoyed the whole Mass Effect series and the endings were (to me) mind blowing and extremely satisfying as a completion to an awesome idea and trilogy. Just Amazing. Thanks for the great Mass Effect Games!

<3

Can't tell if serious or trolling...

probably drinking

[Leem_0001]

MaddestHatter wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

MaddestHatter wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Ah - then if you weren't aware of the promises made I can see why it isn't an issue to you. Can I ask if you played the other ME games or just ME3?

But if you came into the game with no expectations, and are thrilled with it, I am happy for you. Genuinely. And to all those that liked it, the same goes - and a bit jealous as you got the experience I was hoping for lol. For me this argument isn't (or shouldn't be) between gamers.

It was the expectation of what was promised, and how that promise wasn't delievered on that has upset a lot of people.

Yes, i've played every game, multiple times, i agree on this shouldn't be an argument between gamers.
On some occasion i understand why people are startled on scenes like the normandy flying somewhere and stuff. so we i won't say it doesn't make sense, since we don't know what acutally happened and why this happened. I too am quite curious about an explanation or an dlc as epilogue or something.
As for my game experience of all three games, all the parts are fitting for me, for the arguement that sheppard should have the choice of rejection and fight, i don't think this would've been in his interest, since he wanted to survice no matter what, rejection would've simply ended in extinction on my view.

But i have to say it is nice to have such an peacefully argument.

Yeah, debate is good, and as we agreed it shouldn't be between gamers.

There are obviously people who like everything as it is, and that's great for them - so if optional endings were released via DLC that tied up the concerns many had, the I think Bioware would go someway to resolving this.

But except for the new questions, like why did joker and you team flew away. what do you want/ exptected to happen or wish to happen as well?

Well the main thing is that I think we should have choice. And I want the decisions that we made in all 3 previous games to have an impact. Such as saving the council, or letting them die in ME1. Saving the Reaper Core or Destroying it in ME2. Saving or Destroying the Rachnni. I want these decisions (and others) to directly affect how the endings play out, rather than just getting to the end and, despite the choices, simply having 3 options to pick regardless. That would give the whole thing more purpose in my view.

As for what happens exactly - I posted and idea on this thread: http://social.biowar...ex/10098213/155
Though it may be too hard to implement. But other people here have had great ideas too, so there are loads of ways Bioware could play it.

The issue of choice, which was promised, is why I think we need new endings. As for preference - I don't like the implimentation of the Star Child and the Catalyst etc, but that is more of a personal preference. If Bioware had relased the game, where your previous choices mattered and effected the end, and we got the multiple endings as promised, but the Star Child and Catalyst were still involved, I don't think we would have any right to ask for different endings. Because in that case, whilst it may not be my preference, we would have gotten what we were promised.

[DoktorAffentanz]

oh, I had an urge to drink after ending the game.... (too bad there is no "winning" the game..)

[ShadesofGray782]

I absolutely loved the ending. I'll admit, there were disappointing elements to it, but overall, it wrapped up the story very well while introducing a great number of questions (a characteristic more often found in art than mass-produced media, so bravo for that). I found that it made the story matter more, finding out that you can't wrap it up perfectly--no matter what you do, you still have to make some form of sacrifice. Overall, it was an incredibly gutsy decision, which I think worked very well with the way the story was told. It was surprising, emotional, and intelligent.

Yes, we missed out on the "frosting on the cake" element we were all hoping for, i.e. finding out what happens to everybody. But so what? The creative team focused on the story itself; what happens to the Reapers, and what happens to Shepard, and why we should we care. It made it about more than the weapon mods, or the love interests, or the politics. All of those things contributed to your emotional investment into the story, yes, so I can certainly relate to the bitterness of not finding out what precisely happens to Liara, Ash, and the rest of the gang. But the focus of the characters, and indeed pretty much every little bit of gameplay, is dedicated to the issue of stopping the Reapers. I assume that the hope of the production team was that the player would be more invested in that goal than anything else as well. 

It worked for me-for that game, especially the last few hours-I was getting more and more into the mindset of Commander Shepard, wondering "how are we going to end this?" as opposed to "how can I make sure that I check all the boxes so that I get 'the golden ending?'" as I was with ME2. Not that the latter is bad--ME2 certainly was one of the best games of all time, and the ability to see what you efforts are contributing to certainly enhances the enjoyment--but the former is not something that you usually see in video games. Bioware went for broke on this one, and, changed the game (figuratively and literally) so much that your perceptions are nearly as rocked as Shepard's. It wasn't a "video game ending;" it was an artistic ending.

To sum up, throughout the game there's a sense of "no matter what else happens, we must stop the Reapers." Also, throughout the game, there is a theme of continuity and tying up loose ends. The ending is true to the former, and disappointingly fails in the latter area. I suppose whether or not it is "art" depends on your definition of art. Similarly, I suppose whether or not you "like" the end is a matter of opinion. 

P.S. it is in no way is it a betrayal of the fans, it's simply a divergence from their expectations. From my perspective, the creators were attempting to create art, and art is something which is consistent to itself, not it's viewers/players expectations. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't love the games so much if Bioware wasn't so good at creating fan-pleasing stuff. But I think they made the right choice in making the ending which was more in line with what the story of the game demanded, rather then the fans.
about a minute ago · Like

[JGGiant915]

 Things that the StarChild destroys:

-The Reapers:

In Mass Effect 1 and 2, we are given a very clear image of the Reapers. They are arrogant, murderous, incredibly intelligent AI constructs that have led organic races into a specific path for reasons unknown. In 2, they develop a very specific interest in humans, going so far as listing the other races as being unacceptable for whatever their plans are but that humanity's diversity is a desirable trait for them to assimilate (This fits very nicely with Karpyshyn's original "Dark Matter" arc).

3, however, destroys all of that. The Reapers were created simply as tools for the StarChild's ridiculous will. They have no motivation to destroy life other than what their creator tells them. They are more mindless than the Geth, who answer to no one but their collective consciousness. At least make Harbinger be the one to feed us all that garbage about "We're synthetics killing organics so that organics won't be killed by synthetics".

-All of Mass Effect 2:

ME2 was all about saving humanity from the selective abductions by the Collectors. We go in not knowing who the Collectors are and who they work for. We then find that the Collectors are creating a new Reaper, made with human DNA (Also, this makes all Reapers a combination of synthetic and organic, nullifying the "synthesis" ending logic). We stop the Collectors, kill the Reaper Baby, and slow down the Reapers' plans.

However, given the Starchild's explanation for the Reapers, why would they go through the trouble of making a human Reaper? If it's simply for reproduction, make one for every race. The writers had to have a clear reason why the Reapers wanted a human version and this alone, which they did in the Dark Energy plot. With the new Reaper motive, they have no reason to embark on the plans of ME2, thereby rendering the entire plot a really long side mission. Think about it: When all is said an done, how much did the Collectors and the MAIN plot of ME2 matter? It didn't, making ME2 little more than a way to introduce characters and their respective plot points. While most of these were great and lead to amazing scenes in 3, we wouldn't have lost much if these characters had been simply introduced in 3.

The themes of Mass Effect:

In the beginning of the entire franchise, humanity is a newcomer on a galactic society that, while seemingly peaceful, has a lot of deep resentment and old wounds, and humanity is viewed as a young upstart race that is to hot-headed and entitled. We spend the next 100 hours between all 3 games fixing those problems, and the over-arching theme that at least I gathered is self-determination. The Krogan did not deserve the Genophage, the Quarians deserved a homeworld, we even come to find that the Geth deserved life because they may or may not have souls, the very question being at least cause to give people pause. And the races that had their **** together, like the Turians and Asari? They were eventually told by the end to get off their high horses and help the other races because they could no longer survive by talking down to the rest of the galaxy. Even Javik, who comes into the game being a self-righteous jerk who thinks he's surrounded by primitives eventually admits that this cycle's diversity could be its saving grace.

Cue Starchild. All of his solutions fly in the face of all we learned. Geth and Quarians co-existing? No, says the Starchild, they're going to kill each other someday, and nothing will change that. Better to wipe them both out, or at least the Geth, or completely join them together. Diversity? F*** that, the only way to ensure galactic peace is by outright destroying the concept in favor of complete homogeneity (I may have used that word wrong, and for that I apologize). Sure, there are two other options, but the StarChild himself doesn't seem sure those would work. No, the only way to save the galaxy is to join everyone together into essentially one race of hybrids.

-Shepard:

This has been touched on a LOT, but in this list it deserves restating because of how important it is. We've taken our personal versions of Shepard through 3 games, and the one thing that we ALL have in common is that our Shepard is a problem-solver. Very rarely is he forced into a situation where he has two solutions given to him by a 3rd party and has to choose, and in most of the situations where he is, he has the chance to come up with a 3rd option that is either better than both previous ones or a sensible compromise.

The Starchild, however, has the strange ability to convince Shepard of his logic outright even though he has some of the weakest arguments out of any character in the entire franchise. My Shepard would never simply take those terrible options laying down, especially since each one destroys the Mass Relays, something that he knows from first hand experience in the Arrival that it will kill just as many people as the Reapers would. Hell, it would probably kill more because at least the Reapers leave behind primitive races.


There is such an easy fix for these endings, and that is to give us one more option. Let players who are maxed out in either paragon and renegade, and who achieved every best possible outcome throughout the franchise, have an option to tell the Starchild to go to hell, that his options are not choices at all and that we deserve the chance to go out on our own terms. Shepard then sits back and watches the fleets make their last stands against the Reapers. Then, make our EMS matter. Incredibly high EMS? We win, we suffered a ton of casualties but we win. Earth may even be left uninhabitable, but through the goodwill we've fostered, we quickly find new homes with the other races. Low EMS? Reapers win, cycle continues. But at least we went down on our own terms, and our Shepards made that final call to let the galaxy determine its own fate rather than forcing a choice that isn't really his to make. Another cool part about this ending? It lets the people who liked the original one get to keep it without missing out on a whole chunk of new gameplay that Indoctrination would require.

Would this be my ideal ending? No, I still love Mr. Karpyshyn's original Dark Energy plot, and I also could see Indoctrination working to an extent. However, I don't know a lot about programming but I can imagine that it would be next to impossible to recreate the endings into these alternatives in a meaningful way. I also understand that, despite my complaints, there are people out there who did like the original ending, and they shouldn't have to suffer from the tyranny of the majority (or in this case the very vocal minority, since most people who bought the game haven't bothered voicing their dismay or support of the ending).

Modifié par JGGiant915, 20 mars 2012 - 10:07 .