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[Needsnewending]

BLACKOUT228 wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks the indoctrination theory is dumb?

If you get your head around it, i dont think it will seam so dumb, if u have played all the games, sean all the in game hints and read all the facts, i just cant see how u could say its dumb.

[fall shadow]

I thought the part in ME3 when Cerberus tries to take over the Citadel was great... chasing Leng, getting shot at by Ashley (my main male Shepard's love interest since ME1) while on top of the elevator, and then having that stand-off at gunpoint was really intense. I got so into it that even though I play a paragon Shepard and never use the renegade interrupts, I shot Udina in a split second afterward when he pulled his gun. It took me a minute of freaking out to get over it and realize I was fine with the renegade option on this one.

I also really liked how Thane and Mordin died. They went out like heroes, just like they deserved. Thane's battle with Leng was awesome, and Mordin singing lines of that funny song seemed so... him that it made it really sad.

I loved how they handled the romance between paragon male Shepard and Ashley throughout the series. One of my favorite romances of all time. (I just wish there was something more at the end- like many I wasn't crazy about the end of ME3, though I loved the rest of the game)

[Victoriawren]

Endings are heartless.

It's a lesson I can never seem to learn. So it is hardly surprising that when Commander Shepard and I finally defeated the Reapers, I felt empty. I wanted more than a colorful explosion & a trite "The End." What I wanted was more story, for the ending not to be. Can you blame me?

And thus I counted myself among the angry & dissatisfied. Surely Shepard deserved better, didn't she? There had to be something I could do, something I could say, that would convince the story-tellers to give me more options. After all I am telling her story too, aren't I? I choose how her story goes, don't I? And none of these endings are the one I would choose. It made no sense.

I got so wrapped up in the drama of my own desire that I forgot something huge. The "ending" was never the point. And then I recalled something Stephen King said:

"You are the grim, goal-oriented ones who will not believe that the joy is in the journey, not in the destination, no matter how many times it has been proven to you. You are the unfortunate ones who still get the lovemaking all confused with the paltry squirt that comes to end the lovemaking…you are the cruel ones who deny the grey havens where tired characters go to rest. You say you want to know how it all comes out. You say you want to follow Roland into the tower. You say that’s what you’ve paid your money for –the show you came to see.

I hope most of you know better. Want better. I hope you came to hear the tale, and not just munch your way through the pages to the ending. For an ending, you only have to turn to the last page and see what is there writ upon. But endings are heartless. An ending is a closed door no man or Manni can open.

I tell you this. Should you go on, you will surely be disappointed. Perhaps even heartbroken … There’s no such thing as a happy ending. I never met a single one to equal 'Once Upon a Time'. Endings are heartless. An ending is just another word for goodbye."

There is much to be said on the side of those who want a DLC to Retake Mass Effect. But others in the community have said it all already, and more eloquently then I could. And I can't say I disagree with a word of it. I don't. As rational as I try to be, I still don't want to let go of the Commander and her crew. Especially not like this.

If BioWare should choose to produce a revised "ending DLC" I will happily lay down my cash for it. (Those that think we will be getting anything worthwhile for free are sadly delusional. This is a business for BioWare & everything they make costs them money. So meet them halfway here, they are much more likely to bend to our desires if there is something in it for them.)

But if BioWare chooses to stand by their product, I will do my best to be satisfied. It would take more than the end I was given to negate the beautiful story that went before. I will try not to be of the grim & goal-oriented, and instead cherish the journey I had.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't have a dog in this race. All the anger & venom just make me sad.

[GreenArrow95]

 Screw all of you "fans" Bioware did a great job on the Mass Effect series. How dare you critisize them for putting an ending that you dont like. I mean what is wrong with you its not your franchise not your game. This is Biowares story not yours SO Enjoy everything they have and stop crying about how you didnt like the ending.

[TSgt_ShaneV]

Lordambitious wrote...

 I'm just gonna repost this. THIS is what should have been done, what we paid for. Come on Bioware, you got it right with ME2, why revert to copying Deus Ex?

who made that?
Wow

[Tryphus]

Needsnewending wrote...

BLACKOUT228 wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks the indoctrination theory is dumb?

If you get your head around it, i dont think it will seam so dumb, if u have played all the games, sean all the in game hints and read all the facts, i just cant see how u could say its dumb.

I don't think it's dumb either, it actually is pretty neat. I do, however, think it's actually a little strange we all so quickly think the Reapers are truly malicious..or even wrong at all - I do think they are acting to perserve themselves, especially with the image of the kid and all of those PTSD dream sequences, etc, however, I also believe that they are right. Organics WILL, eventually, destroy themselves with their technology, they can barely get past nuclear war, let alone AIs. Synthesis is really the only way to perserve higher organic life indefinitely.

[Black Jaguar Risc]

I just finished the game, my fem sheppard jumped into the light. I think the end was done well, I mean I didn't feel like it was rushed or anything. Though I respect Bioware doing with the end what they did I don't agree with their view. My three things I don't like about the end:

1) I spent two games (not including 3rd) taking care of my companions etc and we together have been to hell and back (collector base in 2nd game) and then at the end of the 3rd game every goes their way. I get the feeling like they just disappear for ever. Well in real world if soldiers go through real battles/wars they stick together after that (I mean you never loose contact with a lot of them) because their bonds are actually stronger than even their bonds with their own families...I red many WW2 books on the subject. So I didn't really like before the final showdonwn as every one just parts ways saying good bye  like it's the end of a school year graduation or something. I wanted to spend more time with my companions in the 3rd game like Jack, Miranda, Samara ...Mordin etc...the interaction with them was more important to me that saving the damn galaxy thing. I missed this big time in the 3rd game.

2) World doesn't change by revolution, world changes by evolution liitlbe bit by every day. There are no moments in real world like what sheppard did in the game...so why does my character has to do something silly like jump into a light or become a reaper (or whatever the second choise was).

3) I understand that Bioware just wanted to shut down the whole ME Sheppard story I get that but they could have just say that she retired from military etc....and be done with it. Same way that Metal Gear 4 ended...

I didn't like the fact that I had to play MP to get the best ending...dissapointed with that. Hopefully they can "patch" this feature as to me ME is about single player experience...why does every game has to have MP?

Anyways...I don't really care about new ending DLC because this ending is what Bioware had in mind, i don't want Bioware changing the ending because people don't like the ending. It is the way it is, this is Bioware's game and they chose to go with the end they liked so fine.

To me I love the the 2nd game the best because there is a lot of replayability there ...which I can't say about the 3rd game.

One a good note after the credits were over I had my fem sheppard back on the bridge, and there she was looking over the galaxy map...

Modifié par Black Jaguar Risc, 21 mars 2012 - 12:41 .

[ArenCordial]

To me this is becoming a question of Bioware's credibility with their fanbase, not just ME fans.

I loathed DA2 changes from DAO, (yes if you liked them thats great) which have in my mind killed that franchise.

KotOR became an MMO. Seems like its an ok MMO, but its not going to keep me coming back for more. I'd much rather of had a singleplayer Star Wars RPG.

Now with ME after the endings, I have no desire to continue this franchise either by replaying the games (which I instantly did upon completing ME1 and 2) or by any new installments.  ME3 was a great game that was destroyed in the last ten minutes for me.

So unless Bioware coming out with an Expansion pack thats going to expand the battle for Earth, give us a coherent ending, and actually having our choices matter, I see this franchise dieing for me too.

The worst part of it is Mr. Hudson's quotes regarding the ending (no "A, B, or C" pick your ending). If its clear the designers are willing to deceive to us, why should I get interested in future projects? If Bioware says they will fix DA2's problems with DA3, I can't take them at their word.

Here's to hoping for the best.

Hold the Line.

Modifié par ArenCordial, 21 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[GIEV DIZ PEEPHOLE AEYR]

holding the line!

boy, what a debacle. i havent played DAO yet but from what my family members and community say about DA2 im not sure i even want to get invested. i just........if this isnt remedied soon, i dont want anything else to do with BW. already cancelled my SWTOR account. sigh.

on a lighter note, it seems we may be getting shenmue 1 and 2 in HD on psn/xbl
rapture :3

[ChristopherShepard]

I've finished it too one week ago.
My job is quite stressing me and so i'm happy with games like Mass Effect. This detailed world and characters..great to get my mind free from stress and #@!/ in the real world.

BUT!

Since i've finished it i am near to insanity! I only played the end again to get the "Shep-Alive" scene.

The whole Trilogy destroyed in 5 minutes?!?!? WTF! No i am not happy with this end..but wait..there is no end! It is NOTHING, it's not a good idea, not a good psychological indoctrination trick, nothing but a way to destroy fun and happy feelings about Mass Effect!

So what now? Players worldwide discussing about this and not because they are fine with it.

You can't wait longer to tell us something about the thoughts behind this dream sequence.

If you wait longer only one thing will happen..you will loose thousands of fans and customers!

And yes, Mass Effect will never be forgotten..but not in a positive way.

Don't wait any longer! Not till Pax! Not till next week! This week we want answers!

You've played long enough with our feelings.

Hold the line!

Modifié par ChristopherShepard, 21 mars 2012 - 12:34 .

[Dmh33con]

I live in Georgia so i have a literary skills of a monkey so here goes

First Bioware if you are making DLC to change the ending for Mass Effect 3 i have one favor to ask, please take your time to make the DLC and don't rush or half ass it please. Everyone here wants the ending to have more variety, closure, etc. but we also want quality I don't care how long it take as long as it's good like lair of the shadow broker or the arrival.
 
Second this is my opion, but the following is what i would like to see changed if you do decide change the ending Bioware

 A) Don't destory the mass relay- this is what made me rage the most and what really in my opion made the ending bad no matter what you chose all the relays got destroyed and you send all civilized races back to the dark ages and you have a bunch of different races at earth that have no where to go how is that bitter sweet ending?!?

More closure- this is what everyone really wants we all want to see what happens to the Normandy's crew, the Krogan, Rachni, Geth, etc. we want to see what they do after the war and the reaper are gone did our Shepard's choices do any good or bad to the galaxy because i want to know how bout you.

C) Get rid of the synthesis(green)ending- is it just me or does the green ending seem a bit out there to me. when i chose this ending it didn't feel like Mass Effect it felt like it switched to Deus Ex at the last moment so i implore you bioware take that ending out but keep the ideas and themes that the green ending has and use them in a conversation with a reaper or something and just make two endings control or destroy.

D) make it possible for shepard to live- this is also my opion, but shepard dies in all endings unless you get a 4000+ EMS and if you only chose to destroy the reapers even then it is just a few seconds of him breathing. if somebody like me puts in 40+ hours into the story got all the war assets possible and even played multipayer which is awsome I might add to get a 7108 EMS it should be possible to let shepaerd live in both control and destroy endings

all this is my opion and i doubt bioware will even read this or even think about my suggestion because they made Mass effect anf they can do whatever they want because they put more time, sweat, and even tears into this godly franchise more than any of us will. if they do change the ending good  if they don't tuogh **** for us it their game as much as ours so thank for reading.

P.S  Mass Effect 3 is the best moment in the game 
  

[shrimprahmen]

im gonna go for the standard answer....everything was awesome from mass effect 1 all the way till shep gets hit by harbinger on me3....after that........things go down hill so bad that i cant bring myself to play again.

[lastforone]

ArenCordial wrote...

To me this is becoming a question of Bioware's credibility with their fanbase, not just ME fans.

I loathed DA2 changes from DAO, (yes if you liked them thats great) which have in my mind killed that franchise.

KotOR became an MMO. Seems like its an ok MMO, but its not going to keep me coming back for more. I'd much rather of had a singleplayer Star Wars RPG.

Now with ME after the endings, I have no desire to continue this franchise either by replaying the games (which I instantly did upon completing ME1 and 2) or by any new installments.  ME3 was a great game that was destroyed in the last ten minutes for me.

So unless Bioware coming out with an Expansion pack thats going to expand the battle for Earth, give us a coherent ending, and actually having our choices matter, I see this franchise dieing for me too.

The worst part of it is Mr. Hudson's quotes regarding the ending (no "A, B, or C" pick your ending). If its clear the designers are willing to deceive to us, why should I get interested in future projects? If Bioware says they will fix DA2's problems with DA3, I can't take them at their word.

Here's to hoping for the best.

Hold the Line.

Totally agree with you. I guess it's time to let BW games from 'MUST buy' list. It's going to be 'Not interested' unless they fix this non-sense.

[Lordambitious]

Dmh33con wrote...

I live in Georgia so i have a literary skills of a monkey so here goes

First Bioware if you are making DLC to change the ending for Mass Effect 3 i have one favor to ask, please take your time to make the DLC and don't rush or half ass it please. Everyone here wants the ending to have more variety, closure, etc. but we also want quality I don't care how long it take as long as it's good like lair of the shadow broker or the arrival.
 
Second this is my opion, but the following is what i would like to see changed if you do decide change the ending Bioware

 A) Don't destory the mass relay- this is what made me rage the most and what really in my opion made the ending bad no matter what you chose all the relays got destroyed and you send all civilized races back to the dark ages and you have a bunch of different races at earth that have no where to go how is that bitter sweet ending?!?

More closure- this is what everyone really wants we all want to see what happens to the Normandy's crew, the Krogan, Rachni, Geth, etc. we want to see what they do after the war and the reaper are gone did our Shepard's choices do any good or bad to the galaxy because i want to know how bout you.

C) Get rid of the synthesis(green)ending- is it just me or does the green ending seem a bit out there to me. when i chose this ending it didn't feel like Mass Effect it felt like it switched to Deus Ex at the last moment so i implore you bioware take that ending out but keep the ideas and themes that the green ending has and use them in a conversation with a reaper or something and just make two endings control or destroy.

D) make it possible for shepard to live- this is also my opion, but shepard dies in all endings unless you get a 4000+ EMS and if you only chose to destroy the reapers even then it is just a few seconds of him breathing. if somebody like me puts in 40+ hours into the story got all the war assets possible and even played multipayer which is awsome I might add to get a 7108 EMS it should be possible to let shepaerd live in both control and destroy endings

all this is my opion and i doubt bioware will even read this or even think about my suggestion because they made Mass effect anf they can do whatever they want because they put more time, sweat, and even tears into this godly franchise more than any of us will. if they do change the ending good  if they don't tuogh **** for us it their game as much as ours so thank for reading.

P.S  Mass Effect 3 is the best moment in the game 
  

And just putting this out there, MULTIPLE DIVERGENT ENDINGS BASED ON PLAYER DECISIONS. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE SERIES!

[Xigence]

Baaaah! A work of fiction didn't end exactly how I wanted it to. Petition! Boycott! Strip away creative freedoms so we can have some obscure form of democracy over intellectual properties! If BioWare had any integrity they wouldn't even acknowledge how ridiculous you people are being. They're go to tumble down the long and bumpy road of trying to satisfy everyone only to realize people will still **** and moan regardless of what they do. But they can't be told this, they'll learn those lessons like every other developer that chose that same path has. Don't let the whiners fool you into thinking this'll have some significant impact on future titles. Remember all the controversy over Left 4 Dead 2? Valve really got hurt over that one, didn't they?

[piwrighter]

I loved the Rannoch battles and cut scenes, the scenes with some of the characters right before the end were great and the two last battles ( Cerberus base and Earth ) were some intense shooting. I thought the story was gripping and it really got to me emotionally in a few parts ( Liara's project, RI Tali saying goodbye, defeated Shepard at Cerberus lab ). 

And that's what made the last part so infuriating, it was like someone tripped over the power cord and turned off the story on accident.

[Omnike]

Xigence wrote...

Baaaah! A work of fiction didn't end exactly how I wanted it to. Petition! Boycott! Strip away creative freedoms so we can have some obscure form of democracy over intellectual properties! If BioWare had any integrity they wouldn't even acknowledge how ridiculous you people are being. They're go to tumble down the long and bumpy road of trying to satisfy everyone only to realize people will still **** and moan regardless of what they do. But they can't be told this, they'll learn those lessons like every other developer that chose that same path has. Don't let the whiners fool you into thinking this'll have some significant impact on future titles. Remember all the controversy over Left 4 Dead 2? Valve really got hurt over that one, didn't they?

Lol, youre a minority.

[TSgt_ShaneV]

geckosentme wrote...

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

geckosentme wrote...

Skyline45 wrote...

So I say if the Indoctrination theory is correct... genius writing, but if not.... its probally your best option to run with it Bioware....

The thing is if so-called Indoctrination Theory was the intent of the writers, it wasn't genius writing because it doesn't really come across without jumping through a lot of hoops in terms of interpretation.  It's flimsy at best but  it's a very clever way to make the ending more palatable but at the end of the day, it still leaves Shepard moments from dead and the reapers undefeated.

Even if we posit Indoctrination theory in the main parts as it's been presented, it still doesn't give the story anywhere to go next, you are not going to get back up all wounded and screwed up, and finish the reapers off. 

And if you're gonna be dead and fail anyway, might as well just shut off the game right after the final conversation with anderson and call it done.  Shepard gave the reapers a good run, perhaps the best ever.  They had to change their whole plans around and attack her/his home planet first.  They may not fear her/him but they definitely respect. 

So what is that worth?  Dunno, in 50K years maybe somebody will find one of the Shepard Beacons Liara placed around the galaxy.

What? The whole point of the indoctrination theory is that at the end shepard actually wakes up in london after the supposed "ending". That means he would get up and finish the fight. You would literally pick up where it left off. That would be easy as far as DLC is concerned.

So you didn't take a fairly direct hit from Harbinger's laser eye, the same laser eye that was sawing alliance vessels in half the whole game, and which could straight up kill you on Rannoch as well? 

Maybe that just scuffed your pants?

One of the evidences cited for IT is the "gasping breath", which seems to show Shep in similarly decimated incenerated armor buried in a pile of rubble.

Die on the ground in London, die on the Citadel with Anderson, makes no difference you still failed to stop the reapers.  Go with the the StarChild options and you may stop the reapers but destroy the galaxy you were trying to save--so what's the point?

Why is it in games that this analogy is acceptable (if it's broke now, it'll break tomorrow, why bother fixing it?)

You do remember what happened to Sovereign when indoctrination was broken. Who's to say that when Shep did it that the galactic force didn't finish the job on the Reapers? There is evidece to support it in ME lore from prior games. Harbinger, the oldest living Reaper would be weakened from such a failed event and it would be reasonable, in ME, that all the other Reapers would then be weakened and be destroyed by the Galactic Forces.

I could believe that, even if Shep lives or dies. Plus it would make sense of the whole assemble a galactic force, and multiplayer as their strength decides the fate of the races/galaxies.

[DoktorAffentanz]

Tryphus wrote...

Ahh. I see. Closure. For a series that is to continue...right. Makes sense. The only thing that needs and will get closure is the Omega situation. Everything else is as it should be.

You do realize that the three endings don't offer any closure on what happens to anybody we (that is shepard) know and care for?

Just sayin'...


Since the third installement is supposed to be the final of the Shepard-Story-line...

Modifié par DoktorAffentanz, 21 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[jeweledleah]

all I have to say right now - all of you who are happy with the endings but express it in a most argumentative, offensive, insulting manner you can manage? keep doing what you are doing. because you are undermining your very own statements with your childish behavior. and proving a point for the rest of us.

Kudos to you, kudos.

[DoomMech]

"Yes we're listening," Bullcrap.

This is an obvious PR move.

EVERYONE! LISTEN UP! DO NOT LET UP, CONTINUE WITH YOUR DISGRUNTLED BUT CIVIL DISCOURSE. DO NOT LET UP FOR A MINUTE. CONTINUE TO BE ANGRY, DO NOT LET THE CALCULATED HAND OF PUBLIC RELATIONS CALM YOU!

[ebonygirl116]

TSgt_ShaneV wrote...

Lordambitious wrote...

 I'm just gonna repost this. THIS is what should have been done, what we paid for. Come on Bioware, you got it right with ME2, why revert to copying Deus Ex?

who made that?
Wow

OMG Why didnt  they follow this?

[Lawliet89]

Bioware should look at this: http://www.reddit.co...s_reactions_to/

Someone recorded a raw reaction to the ending secretly.

[DarthSyphilis59]

improperdancing wrote...

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

geckosentme wrote...

Skyline45 wrote...

So I say if the Indoctrination theory is correct... genius writing, but if not.... its probally your best option to run with it Bioware....

The thing is if so-called Indoctrination Theory was the intent of the writers, it wasn't genius writing because it doesn't really come across without jumping through a lot of hoops in terms of interpretation.  It's flimsy at best but  it's a very clever way to make the ending more palatable but at the end of the day, it still leaves Shepard moments from dead and the reapers undefeated.

Even if we posit Indoctrination theory in the main parts as it's been presented, it still doesn't give the story anywhere to go next, you are not going to get back up all wounded and screwed up, and finish the reapers off. 

And if you're gonna be dead and fail anyway, might as well just shut off the game right after the final conversation with anderson and call it done.  Shepard gave the reapers a good run, perhaps the best ever.  They had to change their whole plans around and attack her/his home planet first.  They may not fear her/him but they definitely respect. 

So what is that worth?  Dunno, in 50K years maybe somebody will find one of the Shepard Beacons Liara placed around the galaxy.

What? The whole point of the indoctrination theory is that at the end shepard actually wakes up in london after the supposed "ending". That means he would get up and finish the fight. You would literally pick up where it left off. That would be easy as far as DLC is concerned.

On paper this would work fine.  In practice, it would be BioWare admitting they shipped the final game in a trilogy, only they shipped it without the ending on the disk.  If you want to talk about legitimizing FTC complaints, that's probably the easiest way for BioWare to do it.

The FTC thing is out of control. Fortunately, not all of us who want change are trying to get big government to fix it. We're are trying to use normal consumer tactics as most of us are. There are a lot of ideas that don't use the indoctrination theory that I would fully embrace. I love this guys idea and would gladly pay for it.