23455 réponses à ce sujet

[James9749]

Archonsg wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Well you all can cry about a fantastic ending me i will be playing this game again.....I like the idea of My Shepards dieing heroes that saved the galaxy.

I'm glad you can see it that way. I had the silly feeling he saved nothing but a handful of random individuals, imposed a synthesis / destruction to all others, or just wasn't really himself at the crucial moment...

Actually the ending as is meant that the ENTIRE Galaxy went Bye Bye.

On Exploding Relays.OKies guys, people keep going "this is Not Arrival... it wasn't hit by an asteroid, it got hit by a signal beam, so its explosion is not the same! That its a "controled explosion ..."

I agree that this is not an "Arrival scenario since in Arrival you destroyed a Relay by ramming what is essentially a small planetoid into a Relay (Mass + Velocity + momentum vs Stationary object) , so please bear with me and read why physics actually puts this scenario where when a relay explodes, on its own might be a lot more powerful then the one in Arrival.

Lets first all just agree that we ALL do see the Relays explode.
Lets watch the video again:
youtu.be/liQV1N7jXis

Citadel fires signal, signal hits relay, relays charges to critial sends signal along then BLOWS up.

Note that Relays are superstructres that can withstand a Super Nova without taking any damage at all.

Refer to your Codex ; Secondary : Ilos : Mu Relay

All a Super Nova did to it while vaporising the system it was in and creating the nebulae that hides the Mu Relay was to push the Relay out of position while not doing a single dent to it. (You guys USED it for crying out loud) 

So to recap, the Relays in ME3 was NOT hit by a big planetoid (this makes it easier to destroy a Relay presumeably since now we have a huge butt load of mass and momentum of said mass added into the equation ... 

But we are talking about ME3)  which means the RELAYS exploded from kinetic / momentum force or energy alone which means that force had to had more velocity and momentum to damage a structure then if it was mass AND veloctiy.

If you want to do the math, here's a link:
www.stardestroyer.net/Resources/Science/Explosives.html

In short and in lay man's terms, a Relay can take an energy shockwave hit of Super Nova scale and not be structurely damaged.
Relays are tough SOBs.

A structural explosion happens when enough kinetic / momentum force is applied to compromise said structure.Big or Small Kaboooms, kabooms must be powerful enough to rip things to shreds.

Example, A soda can will explode if you apply xxx ammount of pressure. Does not matter if you want a big or small explosion but you need a minum ammount of pressure to make a soda can explode.

Thus an EXPLODING relay you saw = ONE BIG ASS KABOOM!

Logic would dictate that if structure is not damaged by Super Nova Scale energy, energy needed to not just bend but blow apart said structure = many orders of magnitude.

REALLY REALLY big AND powerful KABOOM!

Now to understand just how powerful a Super Nova is
www.nagt.org/files/nagt/jge/abstracts/Dutch_v53n1.pdf


I find this portion interesting :

"Also, the supernova Sun would blast off  a significant fraction of its mass at relativistic velocities. When it reaches Earth, it would be pretty effective at helping to strip off mass. The Earth wouldn't vanish instantly in a supernova explosion, but its survival time would be measured in days at best. If the Sun blasts away half of its mass, or 1030 kg, the earth would intercept 4.5 x 10-10 of the ejected mass, or 4.5 x 1020kg. This amounts to 1/13,000 the mass of the earth, but it would be moving at high speed. If it were moving at 10 per cent of the speed of light, its total kinetic energy would be 4 x 1035 joules, or about 75 times the orbital kinetic energy of the earth and 4500 times the energy required to vaporize the earth. Its momentum would be about 3/4 the orbital momentum of the earth. As the comic strip character Dogbert put it in a different context, it would be "like sandblasting a soup ******."

And just how large a Super Nova scale shockwave can can get :
apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap030609.html

NGC 2736 (Pencil Nebula)  is part of the Vela Super Nova
apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap960612.html

That happened roughly 11,000 years ago. Has a shell that is roughly 230 light years across and is still expanding at about 500,000 km/h. 11,000 years after initial event. (time, disspation, debris and space gas has slowed it down somewhat)

Now back to Mass Effect 3

Essentitally a Super Nova as close to as 20-25 light years could take out half of Earth's ozone layer.

Closer then 10 light years a good portion of atmosphere should be blown away, earth's magnectic feilds fracked up, climate goes to hell literally, most living things die.

Closer then 1 light years .... vaporization is very likely that or earth and everything in the path of the discharge become galacitc kitty litter, pulverrised into rock and dust.

The Charon Mass relay is 4 light hours away.

Needless to say ANY system with an Exploding Mass Relay = Toast.Any cluster with a Mass Relay = fracked up

Basically that ending we saw was producers who just wanted big fracking explosions.
Never mind the science behind it.

Ignoring their own  "Issac Newton is the deadliest SOB in space" line (physics DO matter in Mass Effect)
They threw logic and common sense out the window just to have a "cool looking cut scene"

Lastly exploding relays even if we take the final cut scene at face value still has enough energy to rip apart vessels in space like it did the Normandy.

Which is another "looks cool" but badly thought out "action first, logic and science behind construction of a ship (we can use current day Aerospace design rules as a guideline) gets thrown out the window.

Logic and the only conclusion that any shockwave that can flex and rip engines off a lateral mount = severe hull integrity compromise = the fuselage should not, could not stay in one piece.

The same goes to ANY vessel around earth space.
That means that whole armada that even if you want to ignore the Super Nova or greater scale energy discharge needed just to compromise a Relay and blow it up, still gets rip to shreds by the the current ending's own shockwave.

I call BS on this.

You can't have the Relays or the Citadel explode, EVER.

If or anyone thinks exploding Mass Relays is "good" SCIENCE Fiction and yes, I understand it is fiction so, there is a good ammount of leeway given to "space magic" such as ohh .."Mass Effect fields" it still has to be explained and follow rules of physics, even made up ones.

Come up with a logical and physics based solution how one can essentially detonate a Relay and not have said energy transfer in the scale and magnitude of a Nova, and I'll accept it.

Very well thought out and well put, but I doubt most other people would understand you. However, maybe one of the BioWare employees will see this and be like, "Damn, this is a dedicated fan, and he makes a valid point. We f_&*%$# up."
Maybe, but maybe not. I'm still hopeing.

[Bill Casey]

Angry Joe says it...

[clipped_wolf]

This video is awesome.  Just a warning it is a little vulgar...but it can't be any worse than many of us might have said anyway. 
Hitler finds out about the Mass Effect 3 endings:
www.youtube.com/watch

[TSgt_ShaneV]

jayprescott wrote...

As a writer, I know how frustrating it can be when a piece of your work isn't fully understood by certain members of your audience. This is the case of Mass Effect 3. Personally, I marveled at how the ending was handled. Wonderful. You did something unconventional and unique when you could have done something cliched, and for that I applaud you. Unfortunately, (and I don't mean to sound pretentious) I think you might have overstepped in that you went over the head of some gamers. I've read the plot hole criticisms and found them laughable. You left some things open, yes. But an ending such as this is powerful when there are some unknown outcomes. It keeps the player wondering if they made the right choice. I think people get distracted by the similarities in the cutscenes and forget that the implications behind each one are totally different. Maybe just fixing that would appease your fanbase, though I encourage you to stick to your current path. The ending as it is, to me, made Mass Effect 3 not just a great game, but one of the greatest games ever made. Again, well done.  

I think you are missing the point.. In a game series, yes series, that you the player, have been making choices thru out and seeing you results from said choices, pigeon hold you into one final out come for your Shep. See everyone's different choices had different out comes for their Shep throughout the series till ME3.

Where as this game, no matter what you do, your choice doesn't mean anything. All choices equate the same outcome. If this was a one and done game it would be brilliant, but it's not. I can load 3 different saves with three different Sheps and have the same outcome. The only choice you have comes from EMS and Galactic readiness and not any choice you made from the game(s). Someone with a Shep from ME1 gets the same as someone with a Shep in ME3 (even iff you made different choices).

Load 3 different saves, keep the EMS and galactic readiness the same (all it determines if Earth is destroyed or not and the "breathing" end if you didn't import a save) and tell me if your ending is any different... and if your choices matter..

Like I said, if this was a one and done game (meaning that it is the first and last game with this story) I would be fine with it. But it is not, it is the end of a trilogy, your Sheps story, and a series where the choices you made thru out have consequences and everyone had a different story to tell. This is what made Mass Effect, Mass Effect. If they want to be all artsy then paint a painting or write a book. Don't get cute with the end of MY Sheps story and pigeon hole me into a linear outcome (yes my Shep, My story - as Bioware have stated numerous times that the player crafts his/her own story)

[Controller_B]

jayprescott wrote...

As a writer, I know how frustrating it can be when a piece of your work isn't fully understood by certain members of your audience. This is the case of Mass Effect 3. Personally, I marveled at how the ending was handled. Wonderful. You did something unconventional and unique when you could have done something cliched, and for that I applaud you. Unfortunately, (and I don't mean to sound pretentious) I think you might have overstepped in that you went over the head of some gamers. I've read the plot hole criticisms and found them laughable. You left some things open, yes. But an ending such as this is powerful when there are some unknown outcomes. It keeps the player wondering if they made the right choice. I think people get distracted by the similarities in the cutscenes and forget that the implications behind each one are totally different. Maybe just fixing that would appease your fanbase, though I encourage you to stick to your current path. The ending as it is, to me, made Mass Effect 3 not just a great game, but one of the greatest games ever made. Again, well done.  

The writers created a god like being with a machine that solves the protagonist's problems.
I don't think I'd go with unique to describe that. To me, it's lazy writing. Plus I find the endings thematically incoherent with the rest of the series, yada yada yada.

To me, the narrative arc points towards the direction of the reapers winning and shepard preparing the galaxy to be saved from them in the next cycle. The writer's dodge this by deus ex machina, but instead of using the god being to make things turn into sunshine and lolipops, they make things greyer. Either way, you're subverting your own narrative to avoid hard questions. So to me it's still bad writing.

[MeganHunter]

Paulomedi wrote...

Thank you very much. (Almost) we all understand that the Mass Relays and The Citadel must be gone regardless of the endings ( I could start disagreeing right here, just for the "Wildly different endings" cause); they are dictating our evolution, our stagnance, so they must be gone (and yes, we are dismissing the fact that all the galaxy knows now that they are Reaper devices, and instead of trying to understanding it from now on, they would pass the subject)

If the endings were executed better we wouldn't be here.

I just can't help but feel that we're dealing with two different kinds of plot holes here: major things that came from being rushed or not enough oversight or what-have-you, and what the team felt were "minor" to them, though clearly major to us.

An example would be Arrival's (and the codex you get early into 3) point that an exploding relay kills everything in the system. I don't think the writers were intending this for the ending for 3, since it goes against the other notions brought up. I think they were just thinking "oh no, different type of explosion, it's safe." I really don't think they put any more thought into it.

A lot of the problems we see as major road blocks, I think they see as "minor" little speedbumps that, if brought up, they'll just say to go with it all. Like the possibility of using the Ilos Conduit to teleport inside the Citadel instead of the beam. "What? Oh no, that's off." Or everyone getting stuck without food over a planet that can't grow anything. "Oh no, I'm sure they have enough food." I know I'm speculating, but I don't get the feeling they care about smaller cogs, just the bigger ones. Sorta feels like we're being punished, in a way, for embracing the wonderful details of the universe they've made. And they've certainly made a universe worth of content.

[Iconoclaste]

Archonsg wrote...

Come up with a logical and physics based solution how one can essentially detonate a Relay and not have said energy transfer in the scale and magnitude of a Nova, and I'll accept it.

Space-magic! 

No, just kidding. I've seen your arguments many times on this forum, this last one been about the same but a little more elaborate than the previous ones. The "space-magic shockwave" reduces the matter ejected from the Mass Relays explosion into quantic sub-particles like Neutrinos, capable of going litterally "through" matter it encounters. It's even modulated into some form of "code" to "sabotage" every Reaper-derived piece of tech, sparing only medical prothesis and conventional nuts'n bolts holding "Eezo" engines to their hulls. The big chunks of the Relays we see slowly drifting away after the Relay is dislocated are kept from going too fast by a space-magic security field of temporary gravity pull from the center of the explosion, as remotely insane as it may seem... And the Reapers, who know such things and even more sophisticated ones (like endoctrination techniques) have no other means to annihilate advanced species than to stomp on their heads with their big metallic feet, or with a poorly computer-guided laser beam.

Maybe we are demanding a lot from a video game, as good and compelling the storytelling might be. But at least, Bioware must be aware that with such endings as we got, many sci-fi fans would be puzzled, for the least...

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 21 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[Andy the Black]

Honestly, I'm not expecting to hear anything proper out of Bio about this untill PAX East in a few weeks. That gives them a bit of time to formulate a plan and for enough people to finish the game.

[MeganHunter]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Come up with a logical and physics based solution how one can essentially detonate a Relay and not have said energy transfer in the scale and magnitude of a Nova, and I'll accept it.

Space-magic! 

No, just kidding. I've seen your arguments many times on this forum, this last one been about the same but a little more elaborate than the previous ones. The "space-magic shockwave" reduces the matter ejected from the Mass Relays explosion into quantic sub-particles like Neutrinos, capable of going litterally "through" matter it encounters. It's even modulated into some form of "code" to "sabotage" every Reaper-derived piece of tech, sparing only medical prothesis and conventional nuts'n bolts holding "Eezo" engines to their hulls... And the Reapers, who know such things and even more sophisticated ones (like endoctrination techniques) have no other means to annihilate advanced species than to stomp on their heads with their big metallic feet, or with a poorly computer-guided laser beam.

The scene with Legion actually gave a great opportunity with the Reaper Code. It should be easy enough for the catalyst to damage or remove just that code, as easily as Legion put it into the geth. Or the catalyst could just shut the reapers off. Or, if that wasn't in his limitations, he could send them out the dark space and make them fight each other. There's tons of ways for the Red ending to not explode the relays at all. Maybe removing the reaper code just makes the relays not work. It shouldn't even matter, I'd like to think, since the relays aren't evil in and of themselves and the reapers will be gone one way or another. I never understood why it had to explode in that ending, or why it targeted AI without reaper influence. EDI even has a conversation with Legion, in 2 or 3, talking about how they're built as AIs are fundamentally different from each other, let alone everything else.

I'm actually a-ok with one of the endings threatening to destroy the relays...one! Preferably on a "good" choice, to give it more weight and make it more nerve wracking. I didn't get anything personally from the destruction being on every choice.

[alx119]

James9749 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Well you all can cry about a fantastic ending me i will be playing this game again.....I like the idea of My Shepards dieing heroes that saved the galaxy.

I'm glad you can see it that way. I had the silly feeling he saved nothing but a handful of random individuals, imposed a synthesis / destruction to all others, or just wasn't really himself at the crucial moment...

Actually the ending as is meant that the ENTIRE Galaxy went Bye Bye.

On Exploding Relays.OKies guys, people keep going "this is Not Arrival... it wasn't hit by an asteroid, it got hit by a signal beam, so its explosion is not the same! That its a "controled explosion ..."

I agree that this is not an "Arrival scenario since in Arrival you destroyed a Relay by ramming what is essentially a small planetoid into a Relay (Mass + Velocity + momentum vs Stationary object) , so please bear with me and read why physics actually puts this scenario where when a relay explodes, on its own might be a lot more powerful then the one in Arrival.

Lets first all just agree that we ALL do see the Relays explode.
Lets watch the video again:
youtu.be/liQV1N7jXis

Citadel fires signal, signal hits relay, relays charges to critial sends signal along then BLOWS up.

Note that Relays are superstructres that can withstand a Super Nova without taking any damage at all.

Refer to your Codex ; Secondary : Ilos : Mu Relay

All a Super Nova did to it while vaporising the system it was in and creating the nebulae that hides the Mu Relay was to push the Relay out of position while not doing a single dent to it. (You guys USED it for crying out loud) 

So to recap, the Relays in ME3 was NOT hit by a big planetoid (this makes it easier to destroy a Relay presumeably since now we have a huge butt load of mass and momentum of said mass added into the equation ... 

But we are talking about ME3)  which means the RELAYS exploded from kinetic / momentum force or energy alone which means that force had to had more velocity and momentum to damage a structure then if it was mass AND veloctiy.

If you want to do the math, here's a link:
www.stardestroyer.net/Resources/Science/Explosives.html

In short and in lay man's terms, a Relay can take an energy shockwave hit of Super Nova scale and not be structurely damaged.
Relays are tough SOBs.

A structural explosion happens when enough kinetic / momentum force is applied to compromise said structure.Big or Small Kaboooms, kabooms must be powerful enough to rip things to shreds.

Example, A soda can will explode if you apply xxx ammount of pressure. Does not matter if you want a big or small explosion but you need a minum ammount of pressure to make a soda can explode.

Thus an EXPLODING relay you saw = ONE BIG ASS KABOOM!

Logic would dictate that if structure is not damaged by Super Nova Scale energy, energy needed to not just bend but blow apart said structure = many orders of magnitude.

REALLY REALLY big AND powerful KABOOM!

Now to understand just how powerful a Super Nova is
www.nagt.org/files/nagt/jge/abstracts/Dutch_v53n1.pdf


I find this portion interesting :

"Also, the supernova Sun would blast off  a significant fraction of its mass at relativistic velocities. When it reaches Earth, it would be pretty effective at helping to strip off mass. The Earth wouldn't vanish instantly in a supernova explosion, but its survival time would be measured in days at best. If the Sun blasts away half of its mass, or 1030 kg, the earth would intercept 4.5 x 10-10 of the ejected mass, or 4.5 x 1020kg. This amounts to 1/13,000 the mass of the earth, but it would be moving at high speed. If it were moving at 10 per cent of the speed of light, its total kinetic energy would be 4 x 1035 joules, or about 75 times the orbital kinetic energy of the earth and 4500 times the energy required to vaporize the earth. Its momentum would be about 3/4 the orbital momentum of the earth. As the comic strip character Dogbert put it in a different context, it would be "like sandblasting a soup ******."

And just how large a Super Nova scale shockwave can can get :
apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap030609.html

NGC 2736 (Pencil Nebula)  is part of the Vela Super Nova
apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap960612.html

That happened roughly 11,000 years ago. Has a shell that is roughly 230 light years across and is still expanding at about 500,000 km/h. 11,000 years after initial event. (time, disspation, debris and space gas has slowed it down somewhat)

Now back to Mass Effect 3

Essentitally a Super Nova as close to as 20-25 light years could take out half of Earth's ozone layer.

Closer then 10 light years a good portion of atmosphere should be blown away, earth's magnectic feilds fracked up, climate goes to hell literally, most living things die.

Closer then 1 light years .... vaporization is very likely that or earth and everything in the path of the discharge become galacitc kitty litter, pulverrised into rock and dust.

The Charon Mass relay is 4 light hours away.

Needless to say ANY system with an Exploding Mass Relay = Toast.Any cluster with a Mass Relay = fracked up

Basically that ending we saw was producers who just wanted big fracking explosions.
Never mind the science behind it.

Ignoring their own  "Issac Newton is the deadliest SOB in space" line (physics DO matter in Mass Effect)
They threw logic and common sense out the window just to have a "cool looking cut scene"

Lastly exploding relays even if we take the final cut scene at face value still has enough energy to rip apart vessels in space like it did the Normandy.

Which is another "looks cool" but badly thought out "action first, logic and science behind construction of a ship (we can use current day Aerospace design rules as a guideline) gets thrown out the window.

Logic and the only conclusion that any shockwave that can flex and rip engines off a lateral mount = severe hull integrity compromise = the fuselage should not, could not stay in one piece.

The same goes to ANY vessel around earth space.
That means that whole armada that even if you want to ignore the Super Nova or greater scale energy discharge needed just to compromise a Relay and blow it up, still gets rip to shreds by the the current ending's own shockwave.

I call BS on this.

You can't have the Relays or the Citadel explode, EVER.

If or anyone thinks exploding Mass Relays is "good" SCIENCE Fiction and yes, I understand it is fiction so, there is a good ammount of leeway given to "space magic" such as ohh .."Mass Effect fields" it still has to be explained and follow rules of physics, even made up ones.

Come up with a logical and physics based solution how one can essentially detonate a Relay and not have said energy transfer in the scale and magnitude of a Nova, and I'll accept it.

Very well thought out and well put, but I doubt most other people would understand you. However, maybe one of the BioWare employees will see this and be like, "Damn, this is a dedicated fan, and he makes a valid point. We f_&*%$# up."
Maybe, but maybe not. I'm still hopeing.

Marvelously put up! I kinda wanted to go study a degree on physics after this xD 
One of the things about Mass Effect was the science behind it, it made a lot of sense, it wasn't just oh hey this gun goes pew pew. It explained to you what powered that gun "a little mass effect field that blablabla" the CODEX in itself existed to explain to you that science. And then we get the ending and it's... pure magic :/ How would we gain control of the Reapers? What is the science behind it? And don't come with the "unfathomable" bull****. I get the destruction one, but the big flaw is the Relays going supernova. And the synthesis? How does that even work. 

It just calls for it, SPACE MAGIC! 

[Andy the Black]

MeganHunter wrote...

I'm actually a-ok with one of the endings threatening to destroy the relays...one! Preferably on a "good" choice, to give it more weight and make it more nerve wracking. I didn't get anything personally from the destruction being on every choice.

I was actually expecting somthing like this as one of the endings if Shep couldn't get enough support  from the rest of the galaxy. But a bit more like: Shep has to blow up the sole relay in a last ditch effort to stop the Reapers at Earth... or somthing.

[burto1978]

Hi bioware! Firstly, thankyou for providing an official chanel for fans to speak to you through, in relation to the ME3 ending.

I've never ever felt compelled to post on a forum about the ending of a video game or movie or really anything like this before. If something wasnt up my alley I'd just not bother to buy it again or  let my friends know that they should stay away. I dont consider myself to be an entitled or over opinionated person and I'm not here to whinge to you. I'm here to tell you how the end of one of the most fasinating, compelling and emotional stories I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with made me feel. I'm 33 years old, have a good paying job in a high stress sector, Ive been with my partner fpr 9 years and I LOVE VIDEO GAMES. Watching the evoultion of video game sotries over the last 20 odd years of gaming has been awesome. Companies that were pushing the envelope, like yourselves, Quantic Dream, Ion Storm, Looking Glass and many others have now shaped video games into something more than mindless (but fun) shoot stuff and watch pretty colours on the TV. When I first played ME 1, I was struck by the real sense that, my decisions mattered and that hooked me emotionally, I even admitted that I shed a tear at the conclusion to ME 1 (To the raucous laughter of my friends) =). So when I played ME 2 after investing emotionally in the story of ME 1 I was struck by how much I  cared about all the characters I was meeting along the way. I made it my mission to do absolutley everything that I could to be ready for the colectors, not because I wanted a high score or braging rites, I wanted to save the characters that I had become so attached to, I wanted to make all their fictional sacrifises count and I'm a SUCKER for a "Triumph in the face of overwhelming odds" ending. Thats what Shepherd came to represent to me and the ending of ME2 payed my hard work back!. Triumph in the face of overwhelming odds! Playing Mass effect 3 has been a Dream, my choices were paning out, Genophage cured, wrex alive! after saving him from the first game. Quaruians and Geth working together WOW , Talies home world safe and well etc etc!. The conclusion to Thane, Mordin and Leagon, sacrifising themselves for Shepherd to win the galaxies freedom! As I aproached the final battle, I was so overwhelmed with fear for all that I had done I actually stoped playing and went and had  a cigarette, this was it, the culmination of hundreds of hours of engrosing interactive story telling, I had shaped my Shepherd into what I wanted him to be, I was certain that there would be loss in the final battle, but I knew that I had prepared well and the Galaxy was behind Shepherd in the last fight against the reapers! If Shepherd died so be it, but I could rest assured that he was going to die for the betterment of his friends, lover and galactic society. Then I got to the end. I reloded at and earlier save, I was sure that I had missed something, some military asset that would give me more of an edge, but no. There it was, hundreds of hours of gameplay, incredible, interactive, funny and adult, it made me believe that I was shaping my own ending, but I wasnt.. All of it felt like it had been for nothing. No closure, Galaxy in complete ruins, plot holes and not much hope for the future. My desire to play through my favorite series of all time from start to finish was now gone.. What would I want to do that for? invest so much emotionally for absolutly no closure. I'm fully aware that complaining to a a video game developer about the ending to their video game may seem petty to anyone that does'nt understand but I really feel like the series needs to finish diferently  for my Shepherd, (The one that you alowed me to shape and feel a sense of ownership for). If this were a movie I'd not even bother posting at all, because a movie is a story told to you in a linier fashon. An interactive game like the ME series is so much more than that and I believe that this unique medium of interactive entertainment is capable of being changed if the fanatics like myself ask for it. Of course you already have my cash, you have no obligation to me or anyone else to change what you have done, I'm not going to threaten not to purchase future products from you or call you names if this isnt changed, but I will be telling anyone that considers getting this game to be wary of dissapointment. So, thats it from me, I'd just like to close by saying even though you have no obligation to change or add more options to the games ending as a loyal fan and customer I'm asking you too.

Thankyou for reading this.

Rob.

Modifié par burto1978, 21 mars 2012 - 07:10 .

[TSgt_ShaneV]

Archonsg wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Well you all can cry about a fantastic ending me i will be playing this game again.....I like the idea of My Shepards dieing heroes that saved the galaxy.

I'm glad you can see it that way. I had the silly feeling he saved nothing but a handful of random individuals, imposed a synthesis / destruction to all others, or just wasn't really himself at the crucial moment...

Actually the ending as is meant that the ENTIRE Galaxy went Bye Bye.

On Exploding Relays.
Okay guys, people keep going "this is Not Arrival... it wasn't hit by an asteroid, it got hit by a signal beam, so its explosion is not the same! That its a "controlled explosion”

I agree that this is not an "Arrival scenario since in Arrival you destroyed a Relay by ramming what is essentially a small planetoid into a Relay (Mass + Velocity + momentum vs. Stationary object) , so please bear with me and read why physics actually puts this scenario where when a relay explodes, on its own might be a lot more powerful then the one in Arrival.


Lets first all just agree that we ALL do see the Relays explode -
Lets Watch the video again - youtu.be/liQV1N7jXis

Citadel fires signal, signal hits relay, relays charges to critial sends signal along then BLOWS up.
Note that Relays are superstructures that can withstand a Super Nova without taking  any damage at all.

Refer to your Codex ; Secondary : Ilos : Mu Relay


All a Super Nova did to it while vaporizing the system it was in and creating the nebulae that hides the Mu Relay was to push the Relay out of position while not doing a single dent to it. (You guys USED it for crying out loud)

So to recap, the Relays in ME3 was NOT hit by a big planetoid (this makes it easier to destroy a Relay presumably since now we have a huge butt load of mass and momentum of said mass added into the equation ...

But we are talking about ME3 which means the RELAYS exploded from kinetic / momentum force or energy alone which means that force had to had more velocity and momentum to damage a structure then if it was mass AND velocity.

If you want to do the math, here's a link: www.stardestroyer.net/Resources/Science/Explosives.html

In short and in lay man's terms, a Relay can take an energy shockwave hit of Super Nova scale and not be structurally damaged. Relays are tough SOBs.

A structural explosion happens when enough kinetic / momentum force is applied to compromise said structure. Big or Small Kaboooms, kabooms must be powerful enough to rip things to shreds.

Example, A soda can will explode if you apply xxx amount of pressure. Does not matter if you want a big or small explosion but you need a minimum amount of pressure to make a soda can explode

Thus an EXPLODING relay you saw = ONE BIG ASS KABOOM!
Logic would dictate that if structure is not damaged by Super Nova Scale energy, energy needed to not just bend but blow apart said structure = many orders of magnitude.
 
REALLY REALLY big AND powerful KABOOM!


Now to understand just how powerful a Super Nova is www.nagt.org/files/nagt/jge/abstracts/Dutch_v53n1.pdf

I find this portion interesting :

"Also, the supernova Sun would blast off  a significant fraction of its mass at relativistic velocities. When it reaches Earth, it would be pretty effective at helping to strip off mass. The Earth wouldn't vanish instantly in a supernova explosion, but its survival time would be measured in days at best. If the Sun blasts away half of its mass, or 1030 kg, the earth would intercept 4.5 x 10-10 of the ejected mass, or 4.5 x 1020kg. This amounts to 1/13,000 the mass of the earth, but it would be moving at high speed. If it were moving at 10 per cent of the speed of light, its total kinetic energy would be 4 x 1035 joules, or about 75 times the orbital kinetic energy of the earth and 4500 times the energy required to vaporize the earth. Its momentum would be about 3/4 the orbital momentum of the earth. As the comic strip character Dogbert put it in a different context, it would be "like sandblasting a soup ******."

And just how large a Super Nova scale shockwave can can get :
apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap030609.html

NGC 2736 (Pencil Nebula) is part of the Vela Super Nova apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap960612.html

That happened roughly 11,000 years ago. Has a shell that is roughly 230 light years across and is still expanding at about 500,000 km/h. 11,000 years after initial event. (time, dissipation, debris and space gas has slowed it down somewhat)


Now back to Mass Effect 3

Essentially a Super Nova as close to as 20-25 light years could take out half of Earth's ozone layer.

Closer then 10 light years a good portion of atmosphere should be blown away, earth's magnetic fields fracked up, climate goes to hell literally, most living things die.

Closer then 1 light years .... vaporization is very likely that or earth and everything in the path of the discharge become galactic kitty litter, pulverized into rock and dust.

The Charon Mass relay is 4 light hours away.

Needless to say ANY system with an Exploding Mass Relay = Toast. Any cluster with a Mass Relay = fracked up

Basically that ending we saw was producers who just wanted big fracking explosions.
Never mind the science behind it. Ignoring their own  "Issac Newton is the deadliest SOB in space" line (physics DO matter in Mass Effect) Threw logic and common sense out the window just to have a "cool looking cut scene"

Lastly exploding relays even if we take the final cut scene at face value still has enough energy to rip apart vessels in space like it did the Normandy. Which is another "looks cool" but badly thought out "action first, logic and science behind construction of a ship (we can use current day Aerospace design rules as a guideline) gets thrown out the window.

Logic and the only conclusion that any shockwave that can flex and rip engines off a lateral mount = severe hull integrity compromise = the fuselage should not, could not stay in one piece.

The same goes to ANY vessel around earth space. That means that whole armada that even if you want to ignore the Super Nova or greater scale energy discharge needed just to compromise a Relay and blow it up, still gets rip to shreds by the current ending's own shockwave.

I call BS on this. You can't have the Relays or the Citadel explode, EVER.
If or anyone thinks exploding Mass Relays is "good" SCIENCE Fiction and yes, I understand it is fiction so, there is a good amount of leeway given to "space magic" such as ohh .."Mass Effect fields" it still has to be explained and follow rules of physics, even made up ones.

Come up with a logical and physics based solution how one can essentially detonate a Relay and not have said energy transfer in the scale and magnitude of a Nova, and I'll accept it.

Nice - Fixed spelling errors and formatting. But I agree

Modifié par TSgt_ShaneV, 21 mars 2012 - 07:16 .

[True 77]

I just finished Mass Effect 3 today, closing a story that started almost 5 years ago for me. I am a huge fan of the trilogy and I can't explain how much I love the universe you guys have made! It is amazingly good! I loved everything about the Mass Effect trilogy. In my books, 99% of Mass Effect 3 is absolutely perfect. I couldn't have asked for more until I got to the end.

There is a theory going around that the end is a final test of Shepard's indoctrination (the part on the citadel right after Shepard is struck down by Harbinger). As the game currently ends, I'm at a loss for words because I can't believe it ended like that. I think for Mass Effect, you as the creators deserve a happy ending. We as fans deserve a happy ending. We all worked so hard for a happy ending. In a world where so much **** happens, Mass Effect can be a positive escape and motivation if you let it. There just needs to be better closure. Preferably, one where Shepard doesn't die (if you choose) and we get to see how much our efforts paid off in the end.

Suggestion: Keep the ending as is up until Shepard gets the choice between red/blue/green and then reveal that Shepard is being indoctrinated (like Saren). At this point allow Shepard to make the (4th) choice to break free from the indoctrination. From here launch a final suicide mission that starts with Shepard snapping out of the indoctrination and waking up back on earth where he was struck down. Rally your squad! (like the end of Mass Effect 2) and launch an assault on opening the arms of the citadel to attach the crucible and destroy the reapers! Make the crucible generate and shoot an EMP directed only at dark energy (so that only the reapers are affected). Once the EMP is fired by the crucible the reapers are finished and disoriented making them vulnerable (like Sovereign). The EMP is amplified throughout the galaxy via the mass relays (also don’t destroy the mass relays because everyone needs those to get back home). This doesn’t mean that the war is over but that the Organics have turned the tables and are now on the offensive. At this point show that the reapers are being wiped out galaxy wide by recruited war assets and united resistance fleets everywhere. From here, show appreciation for the Normandy Crew and a movement towards a united Galaxy and victory over the cycle. Roll credits lol

After the credits roll. Let us explore the new (rebuilding) galaxy and talk with characters (this doesn’t have to be incredibly extensive). Just enough to give closure with major characters (Normandy Crew and romance interests). Also, this suggestion leaves it open for DLC because Shepard can have missions to defeat the straggler reapers left over from the war.

IF you guys would like to use my suggestion PLEASE DO if you like it!!!
All I’ve wanted to do is help. With Mass Effect and all the adventures I have experience with it, it would be a tremendous honor to contribute to the ending. Also I think it would be awesome and perfect if you let some of the fans help write the ending, since the whole point of the games is for the player to engage in the story in a unique way. I really do hope you guys alter/add to the ending, but with that being said, I respect you guys and your vision. You’ve done a hell of a thing commander.. I mean Bioware… Let us help and it will be known that you are the best damn game developer ever.
Devoted and sincere fan,

[Marsland1234]

this guy has a good garrus impersonation

[Iconoclaste]

Sovereign : "We are the pinnacle of evolution. You are ants."
Shepard : "No need to rub it in. Maybe you suck, in a way, too."
Sovereign : "You can't understand."
Shepard : "Doesn't matter, I only need to bust your tires."
----
Saren : "Come on, Shep'... Join us, it's gonna be fun!"
Shepard : " Nope. You're nuts."
Saren : "You don't see the whole picture!"
Shepard : "Neither do you, since you're part of it."
-----
Catalyst : "You can join us, it's kinda fun, or you can try to hold the steering for a while, maybe you'll like it..."
Shepard : " You sure? Not bluffing me, are you?"
Catalyst : "I could do space-magic, but I won't, not now."
Shepard : " Let's try this, better be fun. Anyway, I'm tired..."

[Azura88]

They think now about good PR plan, i think ending will be not changed...

[Azura88]

Marsland1234 wrote...



this guy has a good garrus impersonation

Yea i saw that, hes voice is same as garrus

[Bufardo74]

Hey, guys.
Quick question; when was the last time a mod was on this forum?

I know "listening" & responding are completely different things.

BioWare, we're listening, too. Not hearing much. You've certainly heard from us. We're putting you on notice.

Hold the line!

[Marsland1234]

but seriously, i wouldnt mind if bioware did an ending like DA:O with the slideshow thing. I just want to see what my choices did after the reapers are gone and im sure other people would like that too.

[darthclide]

Paulomedi wrote...

Phattee Buttz wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...

Paulomedi wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Again, this guy nail it, perfectly.

Sorry Bioware, you screwed up soooooo bad, and this guy shows it all.



I don't know why but I love hearing this guys opinions.



Same here. He's got a good voice too.



We like it because they are LOGICAL. What he says would be an utterly satisfying experience that would upgrade Mass Effect 3 from a good game with great moments, besides the ending, for a great game with AMAZING moments, including the ending.

Yep, I watched his first video, and was going to come back to this post (where I saw it linked by someone) and post his second video. The reason why we can mostly agree with him, is that he is LOGICAL about his reasons. Not just "whaaaa! I want Shephard alive!" (which btw, I am perfectly fine with him dying. They just need to have done it in a better way)