23455 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

waaah, I want Shepard alive.

seriously though, could someone please explain to me, logically, preferably with literary examples, why must Shepard die in every single variation of an ending?

[darkelightnx01]

 After some thought I definitely agree the ending was flawed. By the end of the 3 games albeit dependent on your playthrough's Shepard could have argued that the Starchild's logic was wrong. In this cycle synthetic life might not wipe out organics as previously feared in the other cycles. He had gained the loyalty of the Geth through Legion, brokered a peace between the Quarians and the Geth. EDI had chosen to fight by his side, even though her construction was made possible by a rogue VI and reaper tech. That and the uniting of the organic civilisations with AIs to battle the Reapers. The starchild had already conceded this cycle was different. But it tried to force shepard's choices to end the cycle anyway through the destruction of the relays. Effectively wiping out all that had been accomplished by him.
Now everybody's Shepard is different but wasn't he haunted by the damage he caused by destroying one relay? Would he have so easily done this again to his own home world or his fleet he assembled to in effect wipe out every economy and civilisation in the galaxy and seperate billions of families? Maybe a renegade Shepard who was potentially a despot in some playthrough's  would choose control or destroy, but I don't think a paragon would have done, he or she has spent years preserving the races whether organic or synthetic why would he chose tO destroy what he had previously saved or change them, based on a single conversation with a being who had unmasked itself as being the controller of the reapers? Any Shepard would question whether this creature cOuld be trusted. That said if Shepard had the option of saving the relays and ergo the galactic civilisation he would have gladly sacrificed himself as he had attempted to twice before. As I have said before, the build up right to the return to the Citadel was a masterpiece with few flaws, but the ending did not feel true of Shepard paragon or Renegade, plus a final face off with Harbinger would have nice.

[Marsland1234]

basicly how everybody reacted

[AlphaSierra]

I honestly love Mass Effect 3. The game plays solid, story was amazing. Ending just felt rushed... That is honestly the ONLY problem I have with the game!

[Flyers215]

Thanatos144 wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

I still didnt know so many of you didn't see Shepards inevitable fate. The moment the said it was the end of shepards story I figured they would do this. I dont really see how another ending would fit....By the way the so called space magic ending seems funny to me....You are complaining about a game with people being able to throw people with Biotics and blue women who bread outside their race and you think the ending is to fantastic?????? LOL Now to me that funny. Thats just my opinion.....I personally hope they make a DLC where we can take back Omega.

It has less to do with Shepherd dying (personally, I figured he would and thought it a fitting end for him) and more to do with the endings being awful and lacking closure.

How? They explain why the reapers are there.....Why they were made.....Hell they gave you an example with the geth and thier creators. They covered your crew both former and present  they even got Joker a girl. I guess I dont see what else you want from them. They even ended the game with a epic choice. Just cause you dont like the choices does not mean they are not epic. Thats the way the game always was. You made choices and delt with what came about.

I agree, Thanatos, personification of death.  I felt that closure was dealt throughout the whole game with ME3 being "the ending" rather than just the last bit of the last bit.  The choice at the end had me sitting in my chair for fifteen minutes before I could make a choice.  When I finally did, I still wondered if I made the right one.

I thought the explanation of the Reapers was pretty solid and is what gave me my "cycle within a cycle" idea.   I've still been reading all these pages of complaints, but I'm still convinced that the endings are fine.  I think far too many people are outright refusing the endings, but there are quite a few that just want more choices and to see the series come to an end in a different way.  I can't say that I disagree that I'd like to see more ways for the Reapers to go away and for Shepard to somehow survive.

[gsb180]

I do not have an isue with the Mass Effect endings, I do have an issue with the fact that to get the ultimate ending you need to play multiplayer and I have no interest in multiplayer.  Anyone who played and finished ME1 and ME2 did so by playing an exceptionally well written RPG, that is what we played the game for, for some reason in ME3 you have decided to throw this curve ball of multiplayer.  I have searched every planet in ME3 and picked up every war asset and stil can not get to eiter ending where Shepard survives.  This is what I find unfair, I am one of those people that really enjoyed ME1 and ME2 to the point wher I played all the way through 13 times to get as many possible outcomes as possible-since I know I can't get the best outcome in ME3 I seee no reason to replay it through all my iterations.  You shouold have finding all the war assets be the deciding factor in the readines rating, not penalizing non multiplayer users with only receiving 50% of the war assets as their readiness rating.

[Azura88]

Marsland1234 wrote...


basicly how everybody reacted

Thats how i feel on ending

[Controller_B]

jeweledleah wrote...

waaah, I want Shepard alive.

seriously though, could someone please explain to me, logically, preferably with literary examples, why must Shepard die in every single variation of an ending?

A paragon ending that has shepard die wouldn't be out of the question to me since sacrifice is a big theme in the series.

But that's really the only ending where shepard could die and it fits the narrative. Even a bad ending that has the reapers win should have the implication that shepard goes on fighting the reapers guerilla style for the rest of his life.

[darthclide]

jeweledleah wrote...

waaah, I want Shepard alive.

seriously though, could someone please explain to me, logically, preferably with literary examples, why must Shepard die in every single variation of an ending?

I want Shephard alive just like many people (including the guy in the video I posted, did you even watch it?). My issue is that people are continually streaming in, complaining about his death, but they aren't giving any valid reasons why he should live. This guy in two videos does an amazing job explaining LOGICAL reasons for this to be the case.

Btw, there are many literary examples (just look at tragedies) where the hero dies. What makes this game different is that it is a game of choices, and how those choices affect the outcome of the story. (
JeremyJahns on youtube makes this point)

I really want more people to watch this guys video.

[Ver_Vako]

What i want is simple. When Anderson and Shepard are sitting together. fire a pulse weapon that kills reapers, joker comes and picks them up the end. THAT'S IT THAT IS ALL I WANT. because i want the Mass effect universe to continue, i want to see more of this world i want to visit omega and gamble i want to visit The Quarians on their home world i want to go to the citadel and experience the cities. I want to have a blade-runner like lifestyle in omega. DON'T kill the series off.

[samb]

Please no indoctrination theory.  It cliched and a complete cop out.  Everyone is filling in the blanks because there has been no closure whatsoever.  They are complaining about the endings being too similar and their choices not mattering because they didn't get to see the results of their choices other than a different colored beam. 

Remember the ending in ME2?  Where you made us pick the blue explosion or the orange explosion?  Oh I mean to give the Collector base to TIM or destroy it?  It sounds familiar but why was the reaction so different? 

Maybe because it ended with either Shep and TIM having a falling out (you made the unflappable Illusive Man mad!! Awesome!!) or you see TIM looking smugly at the Collector base (made me think "that may have been a mistake").  Then it was followed by me walking around my ship and seeing all my crewmates I cared enough to save.  Bam! Closure.  We made a choice and we saw it's results.

That is missing in ME3.  Show us the major ramifications of our actions, or it really is just a different colored beam.

Was it supposed to be a tragic ending?  Then show the allied fleet duking it out in ruined Earth's orbit, debris crashing into the ruined planet.  Kids crying over their parents' bodies.  "Hey that's what I get for not gathering war assets" I would concede and start over again. Finally some replay value.

Was it one of those "it's gonna be tough now but things will get better" type?  Then show the races that were in the alliance to be working together to rebuild Earth as their new home.  Cure the genophage?  Let's see Krogans and Salarians terraforming Mars or some other planet in the Solor system.

What about my crew?  The people you made me come to care about?  Are you going to leave them hanging?  Why did only Joker and EDI get conclusive endings?  Not fair.

Did the people I went to face Harbringer with die?  Can we get a shot of the memorial service? 


Garrus: I'd like to see him helping some serving soup at a public kitchen "regulations be damned". Maybe snuggling with Tali if Shep didn't romance either of them. 




James:  getting a N7 armor presented to him by Hackett and some crew mates making funny faces at him in the background. 




Tali:  acting as foreman for the construction of a space archology (a la Migrant Fleet style).  The construction is composed of geth and other races.   Not only has everyone realized the possibility of over crowding but are working together to solving it. 




Jack:  stops a paper airplane in class with a barrier while scolding a student.  The student likes very scared and regretful. 


Wrex and Eve:  if Eve didn't survive, Wrex is sitting in his throne and his soldiers standing by him at the ready. If Eve did survive they are surrounded by the crew of the Normandy and a bunch of Krogans while confetti is falling. Kind of like a wedding and more symbolic that krogan females will no longer be treated as loot. 


Jacob:  holding his baby with his wife by his side.  Finally becoming the father he always wished his own father could be. 


Miranda:  in a lab working on a petri dish labeled "Shepperd". 


Liara:  continues as the an information broker but this time to keep up the lines of communication and news from around the galaxy. Cool thing about quantum entanglement is that is happens instantly no matter the distance. This seems to be the favored means of communication and should still work no matter what ending. 


Grunt:  Working relentlessly at a factory while all his co worker look on in amazement. 


Javick:  like to see him plowing a field or working in a lab. He lived a life of war and fear of extinction, he should be seen trying to live a quiet and meaningful life. 


Samera:  looking longingly at a picture of her daughters. I don't think she will ever have a real happy ending. 

Kaiden and Ashley: taken the place of Anderson and seen being saluted by officers while on a FEMA like mission. 


Give a REAL ending, just finish what you have.  I think Bioware was on the right track but it's just not complete, and now everyone is filling in the blanks (ie Indoctrination theory).

Modifié par samb, 21 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[Impulse79]

I want an ending that makes sense. That's all. The ending DID NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. Please fix it. I don't think I can replay the game at all knowing it ends like this, and this is from a fan that has replayed Baldur's Gate (1&2) and Planescape multiple times, not to mention DA:O

[Geneaux486]

Aside from maybe lacking a little exposition in the conversation with the Catalyst, the endings are great. Wouldn't really care if new endings were added so long as they don't replace the current ones.

[jeweledleah]

Controller_B wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

waaah, I want Shepard alive.

seriously though, could someone please explain to me, logically, preferably with literary examples, why must Shepard die in every single variation of an ending?

A paragon ending that has shepard die wouldn't be out of the question to me since sacrifice is a big theme in the series.

But that's really the only ending where shepard could die and it fits the narrative. Even a bad ending that has the reapers win should have the implication that shepard goes on fighting the reapers guerilla style for the rest of his life.

oh I'm fine with sacrifice.  I'm fine with Shepard dying.  SOME of the time.  not every single time.  and I'm sorry, I don't concider that little clip with a single breath to be sufficient.

as far as endings, I think the biggest miscalculation that bioware made is misjudging their fanbase.  which concidering the lengthy doccument that was compiled concerning deception errors, not to mention general reputation of the fans of any medium when it comes to errors in continuity and lore, and pointing them out?  was a very unexpected mistake.

we were meant to just take the ending at face value. we weren't meant to ask questions, we weren't meant to start thinking back and comparing the lore.  hell, in one of the earliest interviews Silverman said that people woudln't remember what happened 8 years ago.  it was pointed out to him, repeatedly, that yes, not only we do remember, but some of us are still plaing the first 2 games.  but I guess Bioware ignored it.

if you just go with it and don't look to closely.. then endings are not horrible.  i mean pretty explosions, reaper die or leave, people cheering, Shepard remembering loved ones before perishing,your squadmates meeting a brave new world, alive - one of them always the LI.  you are not supposed to look into it.  but that's not how fans operate.  we remember the lore better then the writers themselves.  bioware really should have remembered it... especialy with deception debacle being fresh in their minds.

[Flyers215]

jeweledleah wrote...

waaah, I want Shepard alive.

seriously though, could someone please explain to me, logically, preferably with literary examples, why must Shepard die in every single variation of an ending?

I can't explain why she "must" die in every ending, but I can give some ME reasons as well as some reality reasons.

ME reasons:

[*]Her time has finally come.  She has eluded death for years now with fighting forces that are far stronger than one woman could ever be.  Killing one Reaper is a remarkable feat, but she did it several times.  She even led a full on assault against Reaper forces, which is utterly astounding.  It was only fitting for her luck to run out.[*]She had to make the ultimate sacrifice.  Fighting the Reapers and ridding the galaxy of them was an incredible endeavour that couldn't really end any other way.  As The Child said, she'd have to die for the galaxy to be free from the Reapers.[*]She ought to go out in a blaze of glory.  Her death is an honourable, powerful, and very respectable one.  She gave her life to the Alliance, to the galaxy, and what better way for her to end it than going out in a massive explosion for everyone to see?
[*]Real life reasons:[*]Her story's over.  The best way to ensure that the community doesn't ask for more Shepard is to kill her.[*](Kind of like the last one) BioWare can now move on to other characters in the Mass Effect universe with a different purpose, direction, motivation, and so on.  They're no longer locked into the Shepard persona.

[*]However, there are a few reasons why she should live.  Here are some that I thought of right away:[*]She more than earned it.  Putting it all on the line, doing the impossible, and generally just being the baddest **** in the galaxy has earned her the right to sit back somewhere with her feet up after sending the Reapers packing.[*]It would make a lot of people happy.  I can tell that many fans are upset about her ultimate demise.  I, for one, wasn't surprised to see her go, but it seems that many, many fans weren't prepared for, expecting, or wanting Shepard to go to her grave
[*]Edit: Seems the numbering/bullets went haywire and I can't fix it.  I did my best, but it's not cooperating.  I'm sure you all get the idea.

Modifié par Flyers215, 21 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[jeweledleah]

darthclide wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

waaah, I want Shepard alive.

seriously though, could someone please explain to me, logically, preferably with literary examples, why must Shepard die in every single variation of an ending?

I want Shephard alive just like many people (including the guy in the video I posted, did you even watch it?). My issue is that people are continually streaming in, complaining about his death, but they aren't giving any valid reasons why he should live. This guy in two videos does an amazing job explaining LOGICAL reasons for this to be the case.

Btw, there are many literary examples (just look at tragedies) where the hero dies. What makes this game different is that it is a game of choices, and how those choices affect the outcome of the story. (
JeremyJahns on youtube makes this point)

I really want more people to watch this guys video.

I saw the video.  my question was to the person for whom desire to see Shepard live is apparently an anathema.

yes, there are plenty of stories where hero dies.  there are also plenty of stories were hero lives and they are not in any way less powerful for it.  we've given valid reasons why Shepard should survive at least some of the time.  those reasons are ignored, or called childish.

@ Flyers.  your reasons are valid.  for SOME of the Shepards, SOME of the outcomes.  I'm not sure why they should be valid for all the outcomes.  I'm not seeing why should her/his luck run out at this particular time.  plus I cannot bring myself to find the child trustworthy.  his reasoning is flawed.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 21 mars 2012 - 08:09 .

[goldenage525]

This comic sums up one of the main problems with the endings quite nicely: http://www.virtualshackles.com/

I'm aware that this is the story Bioware wanted to tell us, which (sort of) partially explains the 3 endings we're given at the end of the game. The endings are the same because it's the ending Bioware wanted. However, by doing this Bioware has robbed us of our chance to truly finish the story on our terms.

We want to truly see the consequences of our actions at the endgame, how our war assets actually played out (not affecting whether or not we get an arbitrary third option barely different from the other two): the Destiny Ascension and the Geth armada fighting side by side, the Rachni queen and her children engulfing reaper forces, Wrex leading the charge with his Krogan bretheren in tow.

If you truly are listening, Bioware then take these next words into consideration: remember what made these games so good in the first place, remember how this was supposed to be "the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other,
where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and
outcome." 

[darthclide]

jeweledleah wrote...

darthclide wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

waaah, I want Shepard alive.

seriously though, could someone please explain to me, logically, preferably with literary examples, why must Shepard die in every single variation of an ending?

I want Shephard alive just like many people (including the guy in the video I posted, did you even watch it?). My issue is that people are continually streaming in, complaining about his death, but they aren't giving any valid reasons why he should live. This guy in two videos does an amazing job explaining LOGICAL reasons for this to be the case.

Btw, there are many literary examples (just look at tragedies) where the hero dies. What makes this game different is that it is a game of choices, and how those choices affect the outcome of the story. (
JeremyJahns on youtube makes this point)

I really want more people to watch this guys video.

I saw the video.  my question was to the person for whom desire to see Shepard live is apparently an anathema.

yes, there are plenty of stories where hero dies.  there are also plenty of stories were hero lives and they are not in any way less powerful for it.  we've given valid reasons why Shepard should survive at least some of the time.  those reasons are ignored, or called childish.

@ Flyers.  your reasons are valid.  for SOME of the Shepards, SOME of the outcomes.  I'm not sure why they should be valid for all the outcomes.  I'm not seeing why should her/his luck run out at this particular time.

for those wondering what video, this is part 1:
 

[Plageon]

Marsland1234 wrote...


basicly how everybody reacted

yup

[zephyr2025]

I wasn't a Bioware fan until Mass Effect 1 and 2. Those games were amazing. I, like so many others, replayed those games many times with many different characters, including another run through the games before ME3 came out just so I can make my perfect Shephard that I wanted to take the last journey with. I fell in love with my Shephard and my crew and I had to keep as many of them alive as possible because I wanted to bring them to ME3. I brought them here and I am going to bring them home .And I was more than willing to see my Shephard sacrifice himself to make that happen.

I was so excited for ME3 because of the interviews with the developers. All I wanted was a great ending and they promised me one that would be based on my descisions. I just imaged an amazing, complex ending like ME2's but on a larger scale, where not only squad mates but also entire races' futures would be based on my action. And again, I went into this game thinking that I was going to be responsible for their futures.

After the ending of ME3, I can't even look at my ME games. I'm someone who replays games and rewatches shows/movies very often. I cannot even tell you how many times I've rewatched Battlestar Galactica or played . But the thought of rewatching that soul crushing ending to ME3 is unthinkable to me.

1) My descisions didn't matter? I just replayed ME1 and 2 and nothing I did mattered for the ending. I can't even decide what kind of ending I get because they're all the same?! 

http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2 
"It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/ 
"There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?"

I read these interviews and was blatantly lied to. Reading these quotes again is so unbelievably hurtful.

2) I cared so much about the characters and not only do I get almost no closure with them, I have to think about how they left me to die on the Citadel? No way would Joker, my LI or any of my crew do that to me. I cannot believe that could ever happen and I cannot believe Bioware has done this to me.

Never before have I been so disgusted with a game. There have been painfully bad games or games with horrible storylines, but a game that tries to build a personal relationship with you and then makes an incoherent, plothole ridden ending that a) lies right to your face about whether your decisions matter makes it seem like your crew abandoned you?

Yes I know I said i wanted to sacrifice myself for them, but I didn't even know what I did when I made a choice. And all those choices were the same anyway so any feeling of heroism or sacrifice is lost. Nothing mattered about the ending, nothing throughout the games mattered because of the ending, and the ending didn't even make sense.

I even bought Dragon Age and SWTOR because I had faith in BioWare by then (I found those games pretty meh). Now I'm staying away from anything Bioware. They lied and made a soul crushing ending. I am seriously considering trying to get a refund but I'll give them a few more weeks to see what they have to say about this.

Modifié par zephyr2025, 21 mars 2012 - 08:15 .

[Voodoo2015]

gsb180 wrote...

I do not have an isue with the Mass Effect endings, I do have an issue with the fact that to get the ultimate ending you need to play multiplayer and I have no interest in multiplayer.  Anyone who played and finished ME1 and ME2 did so by playing an exceptionally well written RPG, that is what we played the game for, for some reason in ME3 you have decided to throw this curve ball of multiplayer.  I have searched every planet in ME3 and picked up every war asset and stil can not get to eiter ending where Shepard survives.  This is what I find unfair, I am one of those people that really enjoyed ME1 and ME2 to the point wher I played all the way through 13 times to get as many possible outcomes as possible-since I know I can't get the best outcome in ME3 I seee no reason to replay it through all my iterations.  You shouold have finding all the war assets be the deciding factor in the readines rating, not penalizing non multiplayer users with only receiving 50% of the war assets as their readiness rating.

I could't have said it better myself.

[Andy the Black]

For anyone whos not seen it here is the epilogue I'm taking this a canon until someone comes up with somthing better/makes me laugh more.

[III Achilles II]

jeweledleah wrote...

waaah, I want Shepard alive.

seriously though, could someone please explain to me, logically, preferably with literary examples, why must Shepard die in every single variation of an ending?

Shepard doesn't die. If you destroy the Reapers with enough readiness, then Shepard wakes up or breathes. 


Indoctrination Theory ALL THE WAY! 

[Azura88]

Andy the Black wrote...

For anyone whos not seen it here is the epilogue I'm taking this a canon until someone comes up with somthing better/makes me laugh more.

This style of ending can be good, but that what they give to us is just "No comment"

[Flyers215]

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Flyers.  your reasons are valid.  for SOME of the Shepards, SOME of the outcomes.  I'm not sure why they should be valid for all the outcomes.  I'm not seeing why should her/his luck run out at this particular time.  plus I cannot bring myself to find the child trustworthy.  his reasoning is flawed.

I'm glad you agree with them and I agree with you that they apply to some (I would say most) Shepards.  I also agree that they do not need to apply to all possible outcomes.  I am with you that I'd like to see more endings that require certain conditions such as a certain Paragon/Renegade level, certain amount of war assets, et cetera to achieve.  I'd like to see Shepard live, but I have accepted that she's gone and understand why she's gone.

I also do not trust The Child one bit.  I chose the "destroy" option purely because I did not trust him at all.  I didn't believe that I could control the Reapers solely based on The Child's word, which was the deciding factor for my decision.  I still haven't seen how the "control" ending unfolds, but I will soon.

His reasoning for what is flawed?