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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#8576
Flyers215

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Smig-H wrote...

This just saddens me. I played it through once, just started a new character. I chose to destroy the reapers (along with a lot of other stuff). The game is amazing, a breathtaking experience. The writing, the acting, the score, everything came together for what I think is a great achievement in video games. Totally worth the money.

Now, about the ending, I did feel disappointed. It was a bitter sweet moment but nothing that would justify even a third of this outcry. "Oh, the humanity! I didn't get closure! Change it!" This is a work of art. The artist told us a story. Full stop.

Did I feel disappointed with the ending? Yes. Does it justify all this outcry? No. Should they change the story? No.


I like the things that are said here.

#8577
Kuangduk

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So, I never post here, but I just finished the game and figured I'd add my opinion to the growing amount of feedback. I know I'm just saying things that have already been said, but I figure one more voice couldn't hurt.

The game was, overall, pretty damn good. The writing and squad interactions throughout most of the game were outstanding. If I had one major criticism it would be the continued dumbing down of the series. No more PDA hacking or locked door bypass minigames? Eh, fine, whatever. The combat was good, and the gun and armor customization was nice. The end, on the other hand, felt... off, somehow.

You spend the entirety of the game gathering your forces for the counterattack on Earth, yet when you get there they have little to no impact on the final outcome. I was expecting a "suicide mission" format similar to ME2, whereby your preparations (or lack thereof) actually had an impact on the final outcome and the lives of your squad. It was nice to see Wrex and the Primark there before the final push, but that seems to be the extent of their addition to things. Still, I could overlook that as a small blemish on an otherwise outstanding game.

I will say I found the music to be somewhat lackluster during the fleet's arrival and the joining of the battle against the Reapers. The melancholy piano numbers were nice, but the composer doesn't seem to have the same talent for epic scores as the one from ME2. And it really should have been epic, because damn was that a beautiful cinematic.

I was into the story all the way up to the Citadel. When Shepard gets hit by the beam and wakes up, I thought "oh, it's like the shell shock effect from Saving Private Ryan, cool". Then I ran into Anderson and the Illusive Man, who for some reason seemed to be half husk now. That threw me a bit, since the last time I'd seen him he looked fine. I assumed it was supposed to indicate that he was now a blatant tool of the Reapers, and played through the sequence.

The scene with Anderson and Shepard sitting there, looking out at Earth, was great. Very emotional. Had the game ended there it would have been perfect - something goes wrong and Shepard has to fire the the Crucible manually, one last heroic sacrifice. It fires, with no explanation how it works, the Reapers are all destroyed, and the Citadel blows up with Shepard on board. Give us an epilogue or final cinematic to tie up loose ends for the squad and the fleet, and we're golden. I would have been fine with that, though perhaps a tad disappointed that I didn't get to deal with Harbinger personally.

Then I meet the glowkid, and everything falls apart at the speed of light.

I wasn't sure how the Citadel had been moved to Earth in the first place, but I figured "hey, its been established as a giant Mass Relay in the first game, why the hell couldn't it move itself?". Now this glowkid tells me he IS the Citadel? And that he made the Reapers?

Ooookay, now we're introducing new plot holes. If this thing created the Reapers and is part of the Citadel, why the frack did Sovereign need to attack it in ME1? Glowkid could have just pulled the Reapers in on his own.

Now, having thought about it for a moment I can actually see part of the logic in the glowkid's "solution to chaos" argument. At some point, organics will create a synthetic that will wipe out all organic life in it's entirety, not just intelligent life or advanced civilizations. By "reaping" the advanced civilizations and "preserving" them in Reaper shells you can save the advanced civilizations and ensure that all organic life is spared at the cost of a portion of it. It's a very alien point of view, but we're dealing with an alien entity here.

However, the Reapers seem to be consistently late to the party. They started Reaping after the Protheans were fighting the Metacon War in the last cycle, and after the Geth had kicked the Quarians off of Rannoch in this cycle. Its clear that the Reapers need to keep a closer eye on things. Since none of the enemies from the Metacon War were still around in our cycle, it's safe to assume that the Reapers wiped them out along with everything else. So why, instead of destroying advanced organic lifeforms, didn't the solution involve simply destroying only dangerous synthetics?

Part of the argument is that created will always rebel against the creator. Then why would the glowkid create the Reapers if they're destined to turn on him? And what exactly is he, anyway?

We're provided an explanation for the Reapers, but the answer raises a much larger question about who and what the glowkid is. To make this worse, we're not afforded an opportunity to ask any questions about it - we're left completely in the dark, at the very end of the series, and provided no answers to a huge new mystery.

And then we are provided a choice of three endings, none of which are good. You can control the Reapers, which Shepard has been vocally against for the entire series. This was the Illusive Man's solution, and we saw how that ended. Why on earth would be choose that? Then there's Synthesis, which allows you to do what sounds suspiciously like Huskifying every living thing in the universe. After seeing what the joining of synthetic and organic has done previously (IE, Saren), why would we choose that either? Not only that, but it does not provide a distinct reason for why it would end the Cycle of Reaping. Are you trying to tell me that synthetic/organic hybrids would never create anything purely synthetic ever again, or that what they create wouldn't turn on them regardless? There's no way you could say that with any certainty. And then there's Destroy, which is what Shepard has been after this entire time, the only solution his character has been built up to take. Only it gets the caveat of destroying everything synthetic? If the Crucible can join organic and synthetic together, it should be able to differentiate between Reapers and other synthetic life forms. But then, once again, we only have the mysterious glowkid's word on that.

No matter what we choose, the mass relays are destroyed.

Wait, really? It was established in Arrival that destroying a mass relay destroys the system it sits in. Now, it could be that however the Crucible works it somehow avoids this, but that's never explained, and it really should have been.

Next we have the ending cinematics, which are more or less the same. Beyond some colored lights and whether the Reapers fall down or fly away, we have no idea how our choices affect the game or the rest of the galaxy.

The Normandy crash makes no sense, either. Why were they in a mass relay jump at exactly the wrong moment? Why did they abandon the fight above Earth? How did your squad members, who were all on Earth with you - and in some cases right there at the beam with you - get back up to the ship? And... that's it. That's all we get to know about the fate of squad members we've come to know throughout the course of three games. We don't know how the galaxy gets on after Shepard's dead, either.

Lots of speculation from everyone!

Honestly, when I saw that line it made me facepalm so hard I have a concussion. The end of a magnificent trilogy of games is supposed to end in closure, a feeling of satisfaction. Instead we're supposed to wonder what happened? If that's an artistic choice, it's a fail. A big one.

Unless... I've read up on the Indoctrination Theory, and wow does it fit. If that's what this is, then its sheer brilliance, but we need to know. Maybe it should have been made a little more clear, maybe you guys should just come out and say one way or another. If you didn't intend it I suggest you pick up that ball and run with it, because it would make this whole thing so much better. Then again, if this is all the end you planned on, it's pretty sad that the only thing that makes it make sense is "it's all a hallucination".

Overall, the game is 95% awesome. But that ending (unless it's indoctrination), is one hell of a fail.

#8578
mogwilson

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Most concerning for me is the fact that i have lost the will & the motivation to give ME3 another playthrough, The energy & emotional cost put in by me to the sheer amount of emotion charged scenes & interactions is such that i just cannot do it again.

The shadow of the endings & limited outcomes for the people i've grown to attached to are always in my mind & i cannot help but turn the game off, for an ME veteran of many hundreds of hours in each installment i find myself very depressed at this.

I expected a climax to the story & i expected to see my Shepard give his life in a glorious haze of Biotic powers & gunfire at the end, however i never expected to lose the motivation to do it all again.

I never saw that coming.

On a positive note, ME3 is magnificent in a lot of ways & i sincerely hope that the fans will recieve some clarity on the issues that concern so many.

#8579
That one guy you know

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 Reading through all these coments makes me feel a bit better about my feelings for the game, due to the simple fact that soooo many people feel almost the same about it as I do. I know this has been said hundreds of times already, but I for the most part share the opinion that ME3 was absoultely fantastic, up to the last 5 minutes. 

However, i don't feel that the endings were absolutely terrible. The writers had Great ideas. I really liked the general concept of all the alternate endings. BUT, I don't think they were the right conclusion to Mass Effect. Too much of the story was rendered meaningless due to the ultimatums the endings gave us players. It was heart wrenching to expereince this, as I (and i'm sure many others) have developed a great emotional attachment to the characters and plot Bioware has so wonderly provided over the past several years.
I planned on playing this game over and over, along with replaying the first two games to get the greatest amount of variety in each playthrough, and enjoy the hard work the bioware developers put into their games. I took 40 hours completing every inch of ME3 I possibly could, before heading to the last couple hours. I loved every single minute, and was already planning out how i'd change and do it all over again in exciting new ways. My mind and heart was captured by the final confrontation between David Shepard and the Illusive man; I could hardly make myself look away.
Then the events following totally destroyed my experience. Everything I'd done felt totally insignificant. I sat staring at my screen, totally unsure what to think, And now my plans to continue playing feel pointless. I tried starting a new game, but couldn't make myself do it. Maybe I need more time to think things out, but that want to play through again and again is gone now. I just hope that something is done to bring that desire back, because i'm having difficulty appriciating what amazing work and story led up to that terrible conclusion 

(edit) Mogwilson's post above mine seems to have condensed everything I've said very well

Modifié par That one guy you know, 21 mars 2012 - 04:18 .


#8580
kimuji

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Smig-H wrote...

Now, about the ending, I did feel disappointed. It was a bitter sweet moment but nothing that would justify even a third of this outcry. "Oh, the humanity! I didn't get closure! Change it!" This is a work of art. The artist told us a story. Full stop.

I refuse to believe that the artist is just so unaware of the meaning his work. That's really hard to admit.

#8581
Kimihiko

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Well I have to say that the game is really good the improvement combat is somenthing that I love, all the new interactions with companions and between them is great too.

Now..all the loose ends and the END of the game..was totally disappointing I am a ME fan from the beginning and is not that I was expecting a disney world end but that? was a WTF ending.

I think that we need more information you just can finish a trilogy like that.

So I hope that you give us a new ending I don't know maybe Shepard is indoctrinated and needs to realize of that wake up and fight Harbinger that take control of TIM body ,a liitle to Saren-Soberan but it will be better that what we already have...(just for give an idea)

I already play the game 6 times and that end just make me angry and sad at the same time.

So is up to you guys but I am waiting that you fix this because I'm not interested in future DLC If the end will be the same (sorry for this but I have to say it =_=) crap.

#8582
Heavenly_King

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Hold the line people :alien:

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/holdtheline01.png/

Modifié par Heavenly_King, 21 mars 2012 - 05:00 .


#8583
Stigweird85

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wsandista wrote...

bigstig wrote...

It occurs to me, why are people expecting different endings for different sheps?

Did Mass Effect 1 offer this? Not really. Your choices decided the fate of the council and whether or not you faced Saren as a Turian and as a reaper but the endings were the same apart from these minor details regardless of paragon/renegade status.

Did Mass Effect 2, No? You had a choice to destroy or keep the collector base but it made no difference to how the game ended. Unless you had no loyal crew in which case your gamesave was void anyway as Shep died.

In Mass Effect 3, you are given 3 choices but they are just variations of the same ending as it has been with every other game in the series.

No other game in the series gave you multiple endings based on what you said and did during the game other than slight dialogue changes or in the case with Miranda an additional scene.

I get it if you are unhappy with the endings, but expecting to get a different ending for each and every playthrough is a little too much.


Because they promised 16 different endings?


Okay I'll admit perhaps they over-promised or undelivered but I think what some people are demanding is a bit much

#8584
Greymelkin

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If it hasn't been said before I would just like to say I enjoyed and respected the endings so far. That being said I do agree that there are some plot holes to some of the choices. For instance, in my play through I united the Geth and the Quarian races, yet any of the endings completly ignore this and say AI's will destroy thier creators. .... I could go on, but it's been done. In short great job Bioware, fantastic game, hope to see more with DLC and if you stick to your guns on the endings great, if not great too.

#8585
Abreu Road

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Bioware, you could have created the greatest game of all time, instead, you gave us RGB endings.

Maybe you need to reevaluate your opinion about art and artistic works.

Videogames can be Art, but you can't look at them like you look at Van Gogh, Da Vinci, Miguel de Cervantes or Melville. We're talking about art in a billionaire industry. And gaming involves something no other art form do, which is interaction. That's not the same thing. The concept of art and artistic vision could be very different in these conditions.

It will be hard to believe in anything you guys say from now on. All those lies on interviews and videos are not something people here will forget soon.

You dropped the ball on the endings, admit it. You dropped it in a spectacular and unbelievable way that even your long time fans still don't believe it and think from the botton of their heart that this was planned all along and you will surprise us soon enough.

Someone here did something wrong. Could be the fans who did not compreehend your artistic rendition of the ending of the series, or could be you that did not comprehend how your own work should come to an end. For christ sake's the endings doom the entire galactic civilization on supernova explosions or starvation.

You can't hope that people who loved this series and characters for years and countless hours of gaming could take this lightly.

Modifié par Abreu Road, 21 mars 2012 - 04:23 .


#8586
Ottemis

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kimuji wrote...

Smig-H wrote...

Now, about the ending, I did feel disappointed. It was a bitter sweet moment but nothing that would justify even a third of this outcry. "Oh, the humanity! I didn't get closure! Change it!" This is a work of art. The artist told us a story. Full stop.

I refuse to believe that the artist is just so unaware of the meaning his work. That's really hard to admit.

That you thought it didn't make sense, doesn't mean it was nonsensical, or without meaning =)
Two sides of the dice, it's no lie that some 'got it' and some didn't. So where's the blame, and whose wrong?
In the end it doesn't matter. I respect what we've got while still wanting more. Both can exist simultatiously.

#8587
Heavenly_King

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Lets continue to HOLD THE LINE :police:

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/holdtheline00.png/

Modifié par Heavenly_King, 21 mars 2012 - 05:01 .


#8588
JacobNZW

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Read the new reply from Dr. Muzyka http://blog.bioware.com/

Modifié par JacobNZW, 21 mars 2012 - 04:24 .


#8589
DuncanId

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jeweledleah wrote...

I understand why Ray is speaking the way he is. its his company. its his people. as a good leader, he needs to stand behind them and support them. however. it doesn't somehow change the fact that in a 12th hour? his people fell short of the mark.

I was prepared to wait for PAX to hear real answers. I'm still prepared to wait for PAX. I will not however accept his statement as anything other then a leader standing by his people, right or wrong. I have respect for him as an individual. But I can see right through him anyway.


If all the complaints were a small minority, I would agree. When 50k+ customers are complaining, well, let's say there could be a problem with your product after all.
This brings to mind the small translation bug in the old world blues addon in fallout new vegas. The bug made that spanish games couldn't access some new an announced functionalities. The bug was so small that for pc it was fixed in minuts by a user created mod. 360 and PS3 owners can't access those functionalities. The bethesda answer to that problem was "nah, it's not worth it". And we should be happy because at least they gave us an answer...

They are acting exactly like in the VGACats strip...

Modifié par DuncanId, 21 mars 2012 - 04:27 .


#8590
jeweledleah

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when 90% of your target audience "doesn't get it" the fault is not with the audience. the fault is with the author. i

moreover. plot holes. inconsistencies. contradictions. last minute deus ex machina. it feels like artist's lack of respect for the very world they created. it feels like lack of respect for their audience, this expectation that the fans will not start asking questions and voicing concerns.

the artists are NOT infallible. they are not exempt from criticism. the artists are human, just like the rest of us. although. it sure does explain how Deception got published despite all the glaring flaws in it. I mean, for all the claims of taking variables into account, it sure does seem like the writers need to reread their very own codex entries, doesn't it.

#8591
BiNGEaNiNjA

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He looks so stern in his blog post.

::EDIT:: I do agree that the only good criticism is constructive criticism.  I'm in the process of going over the parts that I found to be rushed/vague in a writeup and then I'll e-mail it in.  Honestly they should be proud of how solid the game is as a whole, but with full respect to the developers and writers I believe the series suffered for the sake of some sort of art.  If someone is reading all of these comments I hope they note I am a 3rd party viewer.  At the end I will feel entitled to answers to questions that the characters may not see/understand.

Modifié par BiNGEaNiNjA, 21 mars 2012 - 04:31 .


#8592
justafan

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Favorite moment = too many to count but overall the Rannoch arc was absolutely amazing. Thing I loved about the ending, there was no right decision, TIM is labeled paragon and Anderson renegade?! a rather clever reversal there. It made me actually think about what I should do instead of blindly going top right/left dialogue option (my full paragon chose destroy). I also like the symbolism of the destruction of the relays. Love the idea that the galaxy must now cope with the loss of the conveniences of reaper tech. (However I only came to this after rationalizing how the fleets over could possibly FTL home, wish I didn't have to make so many guesses on that front) but I might be in a minority there.

Problems I had with the ending mostly centered around the plot holes regarding the Normandy and your teammates from Earth abandoning you, but this has been brought up a lot already. I also thought it was very out of character for Shepard not to question the kid or even have the option to investigate. Shep is a man who will punch you in the face for for tabloid journalism, and it seemed like that kid was making a few too many disingenuous assertions for renegades to ignore.

As for the general sameness of the endings, assuming this is the last we'll see of the ME universe, I was hoping for a little more variety. I understand ME1 and ME2 both varied very little in their ending cinematics, but they had to worry about sequels (and with the destruction of the relays a sequel in this universe seems very unlikely). Unless there is something i don't know about, I think an opportunity was missed for a wide variety of different cinematics that dramatically alter the galactic landscape in a visible and epic way.

#8593
Stigweird85

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Please Bioware take the indoctrination angle and run with it. It fits and allows all those questions and "plot holes" to be answered

#8594
darkway1

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wsandista wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Here's a simple idea,Shepard was indeed knocked out by Harbingers blast,the citadel ending was indeed a failed attempt of Reaper indoctrination,Shepard breathes,he's alive.

From that point on you have an open book to do just about anything even continue via MassEffect 4,the citadel destroy's the reapers on earth and then the aim is to retake galaxy after galaxy,hell the last reaper invasion against the Prothians lasted how long???,How come this invasion has to be wrapped up in what seems like 5 minutes???


I was expecting an epic final boss battle not some Starchild saying its over, now you have to make a choice without any possibility of debate or objection.


There was an epic final boss battle, what do you think MARAUDER SHEILDS was.


Well the story does not have to end with an epic ending if it's not the END.......you can interparate the starchild moments as subconcious choice,life and death (if Shepard is knocked out cold before entering the beam to the Citadel),you can except what choices are on offer (and breath your last breath) or don't, refuse and wake to fight......the story continues

In the seconed game Shepard dies and gets rebuilt,if you can do that you can pretty much do anything with-in the Mass Universe,my only real concern is the destruction of the Mass Relay system,with that down the universe is a much smaller place and it's a game changing event if the franchise continues.

If Shepard is in-deed simply knocked out and the starchild segment was with-in Shepard's mind,then it's all systems go.New DLC,an oppotunity to explain other ending aspects,mass4....what ever,I'm not done with the Mass experience,I really would like to see more......seems a little silly to wrap thing's up at this point. 

Modifié par darkway1, 21 mars 2012 - 04:32 .


#8595
Riddledim

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I enjoyed every second of every game in the franchise. I had plans to play them trough and through as I've played Kotor, Zelda, Halo through an through over and over again.

But now I'm at a loss. I can't find my spark. I can not go back there, live through it all again for it to amount into this ending. I just can not do that to myself.

#8596
x Fresh2Death o

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I TAKE IT THE INDOCRINATION THEORY HAS GONE OUT THE WINDOW !!!!!!!!! http://t.co/JKzFj6Uz

#8597
Eljacko558

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You guys read this yet?
http://kotaku.com/58...dium=socialflow

#8598
Twinzam.V

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bigstig wrote...

wsandista wrote...

bigstig wrote...

It occurs to me, why are people expecting different endings for different sheps?

Did Mass Effect 1 offer this? Not really. Your choices decided the fate of the council and whether or not you faced Saren as a Turian and as a reaper but the endings were the same apart from these minor details regardless of paragon/renegade status.

Did Mass Effect 2, No? You had a choice to destroy or keep the collector base but it made no difference to how the game ended. Unless you had no loyal crew in which case your gamesave was void anyway as Shep died.

In Mass Effect 3, you are given 3 choices but they are just variations of the same ending as it has been with every other game in the series.

No other game in the series gave you multiple endings based on what you said and did during the game other than slight dialogue changes or in the case with Miranda an additional scene.

I get it if you are unhappy with the endings, but expecting to get a different ending for each and every playthrough is a little too much.


Because they promised 16 different endings?


Okay I'll admit perhaps they over-promised or undelivered but I think what some people are demanding is a bit much


When ME1 said what it could do, didnt seemed too much for a game at the time?

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 21 mars 2012 - 04:34 .


#8599
Riddledim

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bigstig wrote...

Please Bioware take the indoctrination angle and run with it. It fits and allows all those questions and "plot holes" to be answered


I'd prefer the refusal ending to the indoctrination ending.

The indoctrination ending doesn't fit at all, it is just another plot hole. If we could refuse the catalyst, beat the reapers with military might and see what happens to the rest of the people. With the relays intact. THEN we would have an ending, with closure, questions answered and zero plot-holes.

#8600
Toryn Wattan

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CookieRocket wrote...

I finished my ME3 playthrough about a week ago, and since then I've been
trying to find the right words to describe my feelings.  Many of my
sentiments have already been expressed by other forum members, but here
is my personal reaction:

I've been an ardent and joyful fan of
the Mass Effect franchise since 2008.  I was lucky enough to discover
the first game shortly before the release of the second, so I did not
have to wait long to continue Shepard's journey.  Those first two games
gave me what were and still are the most jaw-dropping and memorable
moments in my 20+ years of gaming.  I remember being absolutely shocked
and heartbroken when Ashley murdered Wrex during my very first
playthrough.  I remember going into a cold sweat when I realized that I
was going to have to condemn either Ashley or Kaidan to death on
Virmire.  I remember my conversation with Sovereign, and having my mind
completely blown when I realized what the Reapers really were.  In Mass
Effect 2, I was floored when Legion explained that the malevolent geth
were a splinter sect and not the main faction.  I panicked as I took
Joker through his terrifyingly slow run to the engineering bay, and
I took great pleasure in telling the Illusive Man exactly where he could
stick "his" Collector base.

Mass Effect 3 gave me fewer
surprises, but many more emotional beats and moments of closure. 
I united the Omega gangs under Aria, I gave Rannoch back to the
Quarians, and most importantly (to me), I cured the genophage.  Mass
Effect 3 had me as riveted as the previous two games, if not more so. 
I had been counting down to March 6th, 2012 since it was officially
announced as the ME3 release date.  I could hardly wait to get closuer
on Shepard's story, and to see how my many decisions had shaped the
galaxy.

And then I met the Catalyst, and everything was undone.  Everything.

To
me, that is the true tragedy of the ending of Mass Effect 3: nothing I
did in the games mattered.  Whether I killed or saved the Rachni queen,
whether Wrex lived or died, whether 1 or 12 of my ME2 squadmates
survived the suicide mission, whether I gave the Collector base to the
Illusive Man or destroyed it, whether I saved the Geth, the Quarians, or
both...none of it changed anything or did any good.  The best case
scenario involved the destruction of the Mass Relays and the assumed
death of every character (squadmate or NPC) that I had encountered in
the series.  No matter what I choose to do in any of the games, my
squadmates are either wiped out by Harbinger, stranded without tech or
possibly even edible food on an unknown world, or stranded on Earth
either on the ground or in orbit with no possibility of ever returning
home.

Curing the genophage means nothing if the Krogan are all left stranded on the war-ravaged planets of Earth or Tuchanka.

Giving Rannoch back to the Quarians means nothing if the Migrant Fleet is forever stuck in the Sol system.

Romancing
Ashley in the first game and staying true to her in the sequels means
nothing if Shepard will never see her again and she will presumably die
of starvation or exposure on an alien world.

And so, I now have
to deal with the fact that nothing I did in any of the games counted for
anything.  With that knowledge, why would I ever want to go back and
play again?  It all leads to a tragic, nihilistic endgame where the best
that I can do is trade one horrible galactic death for another.  My
choices mattered only because they allowed me to choose the manner of
galactic ruin.  They did not matter in helping me to prevent it. 
Allowing the Reapers to complete their cycle would have been a mercy
kill compared to what Shepard did to the galaxy.  And what Shepard did
was the "best" possible outcome to the trilogy.

The problem isn't
that Bioware ruined one game for me.  The problem is that they ruined
three, and those three were the ones I loved above all others.


This constructive criticism exemplifies the way I and many others, feel about the ending to ME3.