23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Omnike]

Ottemis wrote...

No, absolutely not. Look at the implications.
Also, the contradictions mentioned are as easily debunked as they were made. I'd get into it, if that was the purpose of the thread, but it isn't plus people don't want their bubble burst.
They are product of people trying to justify believing or not believing StarChild, they are product of people being unhappy.

Anderson somehow getting to a console that only has one way to get there, when he clearly says that he got there after you? "I must have ended up somewhere different". Where, the gutter? How about Joker somehow finding the time to pick up the one or two crewmates with you on the ground, leave you dying on the ground, then fly off and hit a relay? The StarChild had nothing to do with those.

[Laster Opsa]

I wish to add my opinion on this series finale. To start i'd like to say i did enjoy my 3 choices and they were difficult for me to decide, it oozed quality and was a good climax. The downside for me is how brief this climax is.

I feel that after having so many choices which could have so many ramifications on the galaxy the game let itself down by now allowing the ending to be affected by all those choices. We are all given three choices no matter how we played any of the 3 previous games so no matter how much of a renegade you might have been, you can quite happily switch to paragon right at the end. It makes all those choices and all that build-up feel like a waste, and that inevitably makes me frustrated.

One of my other problems was the fact that after spending so much time helping (or destroying) these races, we aren't given any closure as to what happens to them. Seriously all those Mass Effect relays get blown up, so what happens to all those fleets circling round earth? I can quite happily believe those relays didn't necessarily kill all living creature in the star systems that they are based as they may have just been emitting the control signal of the reapers, the synthesising(thingie), or the thing that destroy all synthetic life. So i'm alright believing all life did not in fact die near those relays. But i do need to know what happened to all those races. The Quarian fleet for example. I got their homeworld back and had the Geth help them rebuild, only both fleets were commited to Earth so now i'm thinking that was a complete waste of time, as the Quarians will never get back home. So hopefully you can see where my frustration stems from. The lack of endings for all these races that *you* made us care about, and i think that is what you (bioware) may have underestimated. I'm not looking for an end with roses and shephard running through fields of corn to a demasked Tali. I'm just looking for closure. Think how the Lord of the Rings films ended their trilogy. People complained it went on to long. But I was extremely happy with it because I got my closure I saw what happened everyone and was left in no uncertain terms what happened to all involved.

My final issue is sequences that didn't make sense. This involves the Normandy and my squad mates. Now i took Garrus and Tali with me on that final mission. I always take my romance with me and on this playthrough it was Tali. Now i'm pretty sure they would of been hit with the same reaper laser beam that Shephard got hit with but it would appear that's not the case, as when the Normandy crash lands on that garden world Tali hops off the ship. How did that happen exactly? I mean thanks for not killing her off, but there's a bit of a gap between running around on earth, being hit by a laser, being picked up by the normandy and going through one of the relays. Which is my other problem. Why is the Normandy going through a relay? Wasn't it supposed to be fighting the reapers? I mean it was very cool watching that cinematic, but it made no narrative sense. Once again there's a chunk missing that needs to be filled, and this is my problem with the ending. It feels like there is a lot left unexplained that needs to be explained. Don't give me a happy ending if you don't want too, just give me closure on everything and I mean everthing, please!

I do want to express how thankful i am for these 3 games. I've been playing Bioware games since the first Baldur's Gate and they are always fantastic experiences. And so was Mass Effect, it was flawless, right until those last 20 minutes where I was left going hang on what happend to them? How did they get there? What's going on? Who is that old man talking to the kid? And why is that ending the same no matter which choice you make?

Once again thankyou for Mass Effect 3 but please fill in the blanks and give us closure on the universe that you've made me fall in love with. What happened to the Quarians, and Geth. Did they unite and repuild Rannoch? Did the Krogan go to war again? Was Thessia and the Turian homeworld (which name i can not remember) saved? And remember when you finished Baldur's Gate Throne of Bhaal how you gave a brief sequence telling us how each character would live their life thanks to your influence? How come we didn't get that this time. I love Garrus, Wrex, Tali, Liara and so on every bit as much as i love Minsc, Jaheria, Aerie, and Imoen. And if you do decide to show us what happened, please make it so it shows our individual choices. One of the main gripes about this game is for all the choices we made there seems to be very little effect. I want to know how i changed the galaxy what my effect on these races was, because i do not feel like i've had that much of an effect on the universe. Beyond deciding what the ultimate fate of organic and synthetic life is.

If by chance you have taken the time to read this then thankyou now please make some DLC and give me closure to your fantastic trilogy.

Modifié par Laster Opsa, 21 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[jeweledleah]

Ottemis wrote...

No, absolutely not. Look at the implications.
Also, the contradictions mentioned are as easily debunked as they were made. I'd get into it, if that was the purpose of the thread, but it isn't plus people don't want their bubble burst.
They are product of people trying to justify believing or not believing StarChild, they are product of people being unhappy.

actualy.  I would absolutely love it if someone attempted to debunk/explain the contradictions that existance of the star child creates (sovereign, conduit, keepers, to name a few).  as well as exactly why and where is the Normandy fleeing with ground crew (who got hit by the same beam as Shepard) on board.

for starters.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 21 mars 2012 - 06:26 .

[Fero1984]

 Dear Casey,
Dear Mass Effect Team,
Dear fellow Mass Effect players,


First things first: There is no interest in this letter to cause you, or your employees and fellow colleagues at the Mass Effect Team, any harm. Quite honestly, I'm deeply grateful that you delivered to us, your fans and out most importantly, your customers, such a great piece of entertainment. Because Mass Effect, and I include in this phrase all three games, is exactly that; a great piece of modern entertainment. It was a cinematic movie, a fantastic novel; we all have been able to be part of in many means. It might be that it is the direction sign for future participating entertainment. And I really had to raise myself to get going writing this letter.


But before I go into what I want to say, some words on why I had to raise myself. I'm not actually the type of human being stomping in the first line onto something. I tend to make my mind up before I get to the point where I'll take my move. Especially if the topic is something that has had a pretty big impact on me - and again to be quite frank, the last minutes of Mass Effect 3 had quite an impact on me.
So before I boarded the other ships, which rode the wave of critics, frustration, feedback and demand, I made my mind up. I followed the news; I read the social discussions, analysis and pretty most everything else. I discussed with many people about their experience, among them close friends, family, but complete strangers as well. I tried to understand what outraged or disappointed my fellow Mass Effect 3 players. And I tried to understand what might have happened. I didn't want to be part of any discussions and guessing about what you might have had in mind or what might is there to come - which was obviously difficult. And I won't.


This is what you have finished after 5 years of writing and project management and surely 2-3 years of coding. And finally this is what you have shipped and sold. So, this is the ending you wanted the community, and let's face it, you have created with Mass Effect a huge, faithful community of people around the world from what ever descent, to experience. There is no need or outcome of discussing possibilities and reasons, unless we, as a community, would get any hint from you.


I think there are a lot of messages, posts, videos, pictures, and what kind of input, for feedback out there which will easily explain, what the community felt was 'wrong' with the ending, and what their feelings have been. So I don't need to wrap all this up, and I don't feel that my word is needed there.
But I feel that it was about time, that someone would address something different about the endings which we were able to see.


Let's face it, from a business point of view, the endings, maybe changed or not in the future, won't matter. The copies are sold, and the copies will still be sold in the future. And quite sure it won't change that we will buy a new BioWare product in the future. It might not even change that we'll buy the DLC, you might provide in the month to come. And, last but not least, it won't stop people play the Multiplayer of ME3.
But we're all facing a different world in the business of game development. In the past, the Studios and Publishers created something, and where then about to sell it. With success or not. There have been analyses of the market and the possible customers. Age, descent, income, access to media, culture, selling figures of other products etc., etc. On the basis of all this information, games have been created and sold. And it worked quite well.


Now, you're about to experience that this is going to be the past. What you actually are realising is that there are not just customers which you can analysis with this market data. By now it's quite easy to see how the different products on the market are going to move into more or less the same directions. You could name casual gaming, you could name ego shooter, you could name action cinematic game play, you could name simulation. Examples are there en mass: Racing games are offering surprisingly a lot of customisation of cars and differ only in race and arcade or street racing and race tracks; Sports games are getting a lot more into the role of buying/selling players, developing simulation a side the real sports part of the game; Ego Shooters are basically all providing a cover system, weapon customisation, close combat, group command system, etc. etc.
I think you get what I mean.


Don't get me wrong, this happens because all this things have been good and fun ideas for the players. But there is a small difference between a product which is sold regularly which fit's in one of this areas and it's finished. Even if we talk about a series of a game, players normally experience a new story or setting, it's all about the mechanism and the graphical improvements, as long as the story/theme fit's. That is not much magic: The Elder Scrolls, Call of Duty, Need for Speed, Madden NFL, etc.
But then we've a game which is called Mass Effect. A game that call's it self somehow RPG, but is actually a lot more then just a RPG. It's an adventure, is a interactive story, where it's about choices of the customer. You have invested a lot of money and time, which means even more money, to give your customers - and I'll refer from now on to the Mass Effect players only as customers - this understanding of the game. You fostered that it was their choice, which the game is all about - you proofed that for BioWare it's about storytelling, about dialogs, about characters. Not about the best combat movement, or about the best RPG stats, or about the best space combat simulation, or even about the best mini games. And that's what the customer bought.


And they have bought this gratefully and with pleasure. Looking forward for more. But what you did with this approach as well is, and you might have done this in the history of gaming really for the first time, you generated something else on the side of your customers, aside from just the will to buy and go on with the story. You generated requirements.


Let's face it, when you are creating a product, you have different requirements: from the finance department, from the strategy department, from the technology department, from HR, from the management, you have your own requirements, your own goal and so forth. And all this is influencing your project/product, because you have to fulfil these requirements, or you will not deliver anything. I understand that - and I'm not questioning, who had what influence at what point.
But, what I want to point out is on the other side of all this, you have the requirements from the customer: he will have 'need to haves', he will have 'wants to have' and he has 'delighters'. And clearly not every requirement is visible, and as within every project or product development, you can miss one. You can misinterpret. No offense if this happens. It happens everywhere.


My point is: your customers are sensing that you just missed their requirement. And they are asking themselves, why.
It's obvious that there is quite a big movement at the moment, and that we can not see, or at least I cannot see, how many of all the customers are really feeling upset, because of a not kept requirement. But there is a movement, and in most other sectors of business, this would have led to a lot of refunding. Up to now, we don't have this kind of relationship between producer and customer in the sector of entertainment. Or not to the extend like in the electronic market for example, as it's obviously more difficult to draw a line between promised matter of subject and delivered matter of subject in entertainment.


But this might have changed with Mass Effect, and the requirement which has formed itself on the side of the customer.
This requirement is quite simple as well. "It's about the choices of the customers." The outmost of the customers, as far as I have followed the movement, just want a ending, wants last 15 minutes of game play which stay to what they wanted to buy. The cinematic, participating story. I don't say that the ending is terrible, honestly it's quite brave, but and that is the point where it might have been broken between you and your customers, and what have made them so upset:


It had been told in the media, that this is the ending you have wanted. And thereby I mean the Mass Effect team. This is to a specific point your right, as long as we're talking about art. Now, we're not talking art. We're talking business.
Your customers have a requirement, and this requirement, has not been delivered. 


They had the requirement, that at the end of 5 years, of an invest of a three numbered amount of money, of many hours of game play, of merchandise and so forth: The ending would deliver what has been the leading light through whole of the trilogy. It's about our choices, not about the last choice, about the choices we made in the past. How do they impact the galaxy after the last bittersweet choice. It was about to be our ending.


What you are getting by now, is feedback. Honest feedback of a faithful community, which sticks to you and still believes in you. You are not doomed to recall or refund your product, like you would have been in most other sectors.
And overall of this, your customers are supporting you in finding a way to give them what they have wanted and expected from your product. What they have expected from your quality. What they have expected from your abilities to entertain them on a new level.


I'm not kindly ask you to please deliver a DLC with an improved ending, not to deliver optimisation, nor to give us ME4 – even if I think that a legion of people would really appreciate it, which would include me.
What I would like to kindly ask you, plain and simple, is to go on with developing games and be innovative, but to take better care of the requirements your customers have in the future. 


I'd like to close this letter with a quote from Charly Wilson, due to its quite fitting and still honours what you all have performed:


„These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world… and then we ****ed up the end game.“




With the best regards and yours sincerely,


Thomas

[txeffect]

I just wanted Shepard to live.  I hoped that although it was the end of the Reapers struggle it wouldn't be the end to Shepard's legacy... 

[Stygian1]

Closure is not the problem; give us a fourth option to not give into the Star Child's wishes. Let us put our assets to use and fight the Reapers conventionally.

Give us a happy ending, give us a sad ending, and give us everything inbetween those two.

[randomsub]

I'm not going to lie. The ending was poor at best and I really didn't understand what happened. How did one of my teamates (Garrus) die at the end and how did the other one (EDI) escape back to the Normandy? Who was that kid?

I wouldn't mind a bittersweet end but I can't even interpret what happend. It feels like an incomplete game to me.

To me BioWare's response behind the nice words really is...

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?

[Valk72]

Stygian1 wrote...

Closure is not the problem; give us a fourth option to not give into the Star Child's wishes. Let us put our assets to use and fight the Reapers conventionally.

Give us a happy ending, give us a sad ending, and give us everything inbetween those two.

The 4th option would be enough for me too.

[Koolgool]

First off, I'm of the majority that loves all of the Mass Effect games, including 3, up until the ending. That said, I won't be talking about the ending, but instead my favorite parts of the journey as asked by the OP.

My favorite part of the first game, as hard as it was at the time, was deciding between whether Ashley or Kaiden should live in the end. It was the first choice in the game that actually made me stop and think. There was no "right" decision, either choice would result in the deaths of one of your friends and comrades. While Ashley and Kaiden were actually my two least favorite party members from the first game, I still liked them for their own qualities. I eventually chose to save Ashley since it sorta seemed like this was Kaiden's moment, everything he'd done in his life had lead up to that point. It was still hard, as I actually liked Carth from Kotor and thought of him as living on through Kaiden, but in the end he had to be sacrificed.

My favorite part of Mass Effect 2 was the ending suicide mission. MAN! Talk about tough choices. I went into Mass Effect 2 knowing that it was possible for Shepard to die, and that would be the game's ending. I had no idea what the perameters would be for that death, and when it came time to decide whether to save or destroy the collector base I thought that was the moment that would decide whether he would live or die: I assumed saving it would mean Shepard would live, at great cost, and destroying it would mean saving the day while sacrificing yourself. As much as it pained me, I decided to destroy the collector base and believed I sealed my fate. This made the whole escape extremely tense.

All the choices leading up to that moment were equally tense, with deciding which party member would take which task (I chose Thane to hold up the biotic shield, resulting in Jack's death), but I was on the edge of my seat while that suspensful epic music was playing while Shepard was checking to make sure his allies were still alive after fighting the proto-reaper. The relief I felt when I found that both Garrus and Tali, two of my all-time favorite characters from any video game, survived... I was overjoyed, but not out of the woods yet. Then everyone was running, and still believing Shepard was going to die I was on the edge of my seat. Everyone makes it to the Normandy, and then Shepard jumps in slow motion. The few seconds where he was in the air, I was practically standing, eyes wide, adrenalyn pumping, and I got the chills.

BAM! SAFE! Shepard lives, everyone (save for Jack) made it out alive, and the Suicide mission was a success. SUCH a great feeling of accomplishment, unlike any I had ever felt in a video game before. The resulting resolution was also good, showing that the reapers were on the way and that even though you'd faced countless impossible odds before, nothing would prepare you for what would come next. Regardless, it was still a victory, and one of the best endings to any video game I've ever played.

My favorite part of Mass Effect 3 was the focus on the relationships between the characters. That little "bro's day out" with Garrus was such a genius choice. Shooting bottles off the top of the presidium was just a perfect moment solidifying the fact that Garrus was my Shepard's best friend. They would be together to the bitter end, fighting reapers, and cracking wise-ass remarks and quips along the way.

What was even better, I think, was how Bioware handled the moments in the romance options. I romanced Tali, which I think is the best romance option in all three games. I actually remember not even liking her a whole lot in Mass Effect 1 for some reason, which I feel bad about now because she's certainly my favorite character. At some point in Mass Effect 2 I realized she was just freakin' adorable, couragious, and very strong despite her (mostly) soft nature. In Mass Effect 3, there were a lot of great moments with her, thinking specifically of the time on the Geth ship where she and Shepard are bantering back and forth, and if Garrus is in your party he basically says "get a room" which had me laughing so hard I restarted the mission to see what Liara would have said instead, which was also pretty funny since I had romanced her in the first game. The scenes with her on Rannoch were also priceless. Made me want more than anything to see her story resolved, and possibly end up living with her back on her homeworld, but... I've already said I won't be talking about the ending, so I won't go there.

My favorite aspect of all the Mass Effect games is the focus on creating and developing amazing characters. So few games out there focus on character driven stories, especially western games, so Bioware has always been a beacon of hope for me in this regard. Even though I wasn't a big fan of Dragon Age 2, I felt that in that game you guys had nailed the characters once again (specifically thinking of Merrill and Varric, my two favorite characters from that game).

The loyalty missions in Mass Effect 2 were one of my favorite parts of the game as they let you explore each of the characters' motivations and help them feel at ease in many places of their lives (once again, Tali's being my favorite of the lot). I was hoping Mass Effect 3 would have something like this too, but in the end I guess everyone's already loyal to you so it's not entirely necessary... but it would have been nice. Even with characters I initially didn't like a whole lot (*cough* Jacob, Vega, Jack), I still ended up liking them in some capacity by the end of the series. I still cared for them and wanted to see them succeed. So few other games actually instill these sorts of emotions anymore... now it's all about big explosions and giant action set-pieces that I don't end up caring about because I don't care for the characters (looking at you Call of Duty). Bioware, to this day, has taken a stand against that kind of poor storytelling (for the most part) and focused on establishing believable and interesting characters. As as result, I can do nothing more than respect Bioware for that.

Modifié par Koolgool, 21 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[Laerni]

I wanted to say that I love you BIOWARE i really do I have been playing your games for many years which is why it is so hard to understand the last 15 minutes of ME3 really happened.... well you get what i mean. I have been hoping that the 'indoctrination' theory is correct as to me it is the only thing that makes sense and possibly allows Shepard to return as a mentor, maybe not the main protagonist but could still be in the story a little bit like how anderson is currently. I really do hope you have something up your sleeves. The imagination and creativity you have shared with us has been amazing. You have taken us to worlds we as humans may never see (at least not in our lifetime) you are probably the first company to give us a true emotional connection in a game, which is why most of the feedback has been so passionate and yes some has been angry as emotions are controlled by the heart and not the mind.
This is all i have to say.

Modifié par Laerni, 21 mars 2012 - 06:35 .

[StarBound_ZA]

Not the biggest fan of the series infact I liked ME1 more than ME2 where it felt like I was playing gears of war on a galactic scale rather than an RPG. But ME3 is the best of the 3 games for me and like more players I am slightly disappointed in the ending. Don't get me wrong the beast machines ending felt like the best one but no Optimus Primal or Megatron confrontation left me slightly unfilled.

So here is my paragon ending for the game with most/all of the good actions.

---

Shepard rejects that space kid and continues his speech about how the galaxy is united against the threat and how no one has the right to exterminate all life. Life will speak for itself, it will be chaotic but it will be free, something along those lines.

Enter Harbinger.

Harbinger tells Shepard they had their chance at assymalation and that all reapers carry the genetics/dna/essence of the races they destroy and are created from. He also also states how it is impossible for synthetics and organic life to co-exist where Shepard interrupts him and tells him about how the Geth and Quarians are united, the relationship between EDI and Joker, saying that co-existance is possible.

Given persuation or rejection Harbinger stands down whereafter Liara brings to light the crusible has the ability to destroy the reapers but it can spread the essense they carry to other worlds using the mass relayes to recreate the life that they once destroyed. Should Harbinger not be convinced a fight between him and Shepard can insue where you can duck around until Harbinger lashes into the beam and gets destroyed.

Taking that Harbinger stood down, the Illusive man can come top side telling Shepard he won't stand for it and that humanity is the superior race in the galaxy. Illusive man dies after his speech or gets shot by Shepard. Joker radios in saying they are detecting an altered reaper signature where the human reaper shows up, claiming to be the Illusive man. If Harbinger was not killed then the Human reaper kills/cripples Harbinger. A boss fight breaks out.

At this point you get to controll all your squad mates where each of their abilities and powers comes into play overloading limbs, destroying armor plating on weak points ect. The fight goes on till only one of his eyes are left. He charges it up and yells "This is the end" where they hear EDIs voice saying "Indeed it is" they look at her infront of the crusible beam where she says "I'm in control" igniting the Illusive reapers thrusters sending him into the beam (paragon moment where Liara or a biotic pulls her out of Illisives crash coarse.

Fights over. Harbinger mutters a few words of how he wished his race, his essense could survive. Not the reaper but the life it was forged from. He orders the other reapers to get into position at the mass relays for their final act, rebirth.

Shepard activates the crusible where all reaper are sent into relay jumps where he can either break them down into the old races genetics or destroy them and all traces of life they once carried.

Afterwards Shepard can do the unthinkable where the relays only allows humans to travel through ensuring human dominance of the galaxy or allow all life to travel around.

Ending scene will be aboard the citadel with a statue of Shepard reading "Saviour of Humanity" if you stop all mass relay usage for other races, a statue of Shepard and his squad mates on a dead reaper if you destroy the reapers saying "Saviours of the Galaxy" and the special/disney touched ending with reapers converted to life essense a statue of Shepard and his squad maters saying "Saviours of all life in this Galaxy". Add a Krogan if you cured the genephage, a Rachni if you saved the Rachni, Geth if you saved the geth (I assume you can destroy them).

---

So there is my ending.

[iphoto]

I'm not really with the mob horde against you guys. I loved Mass Effect 3, but I like many others walked away completely confused and frustrated with the end. Even so, I'd still rate the game a 9 or up on a 10 scale. It's still SO awesome, and I want to give my thanks to the Bioware team, and for even taking the community's response to the game seriously after today's announcement from the Dr. I've never seen a company that puts out a triple AAA title try so hard to please it's fans, and I highly respect that in every way. Thank you again!

The endings...

I walked away confused. I was emotionally involved up until the point hackett calls to tell him it's not working any more. It went by so fast so quick after that I didn't really understand it. Fact is, I went through the whole thing and the credits (my first play through without knowing the endings ahead of time) and restarted the sequence with subtitles on to help me basically understand what I was looking it. I understood the meanings of the 3 beams and their consequences, but the starchild, being forced into choosing, and the ridiculous plot holes that come after just made me feel dissapointed and confused. I thought for a game ending, I surely would have one ending that had no hope for anyone, but all 3 of these endings do that. There's no REAL variety like you guys claimed though, they all have only minor differences in cutscenes and nothing was explained with well....anything outside of the 3 choices you make right then, it's all speculation on what happens. I apreciate the endings for what they were, but I more want to UNDERSTAND the endings. I don't need a happy perfect ending and I fully expected Shepard to live or die in the series as I knew it was going to be the last of his story (for now). The plot holes, and the fact that story leaves so much speculation that I can't tell if it was a REAL (indoctrination?) ending or not in the first place just makes me more confused about the whole thing.

I put my own spin on it awhile back, in the really large thread about the endings, thinking that the whole series had been a book of stories based on Commander Shepard that the grandpa was telling his grandchild, and the "missing pieces" were the weird endings since they were lost in time, didn't seem to make sense. To me it only meant there was going to be another game if that were the case. I was also intrigued by the indoctrination one too. To me, those two endings both make sense with what you already have. The Indoctrination theory is definitely the one that has the most pieces to fit, so I personally believe if you're going to change the endings, just start from there. He wakes up from the rubble, and the endings will be...different. I trust whatever you guys do with that, but get rid of the plotholes, and the weird cutscene endings. I don't have to have all fairy tales and bunnies. I just want it to make logical sense and not leave me a series I've played 6 years of in the complete dark. I'm sure most of us probably agree anyway that the best 3 choices would be a true paragon, middle man, and renegade that fits with the way you guys have always done it (until this time). A good ending, a meh endings, and really bad ending. It makes sense, and I know it's cliche for the series, but I think it's what people were expecting anyway.

Again, thanks for taking our feedback seriously, also I love multiplayer, and can't wait for new maps!

[thelongjohn666]

 I'll be honest, I heard about some of the tweets that bioware posted about holding onto your copy because you guys basically got something up your sleeve or something of the sort, then I started reading about the whole indocternation theory to me it legit makes sense. I still hope that of all honesty, the theory is true because i'll hand it to bioware then, they are crafty and I'd be quite pleased that if you follow the destruction ending and wake up in the rubble to continue to the real ending. 

But I would not like to pay for it to be honest.

[Kage no Ryuu]

So this will probably be a long post, but since you asked for feedback and constructive criticism, I'm going to try my best to improve upon what has already been stated by countless other fans of the ME franchise.

First up, from the first game you, and by that I mean Bioware and the team responsible for the project, have told us, the fans, that our choices matter. As of now, with the current ending, that premise has flown out of window.

In my case using a full Paragon character, my current feelings through all 3 chapters of "my" story, are simply bitter disappointment, due to the manner in which that same story ends. There is no reward whatsoever to be good or evil, it all ends the same. Sure 'I' saved the rachni, cured the genophage, put to rest wars and grudges spanning from thousands to hundreds of years of conflict, gave friends some comfort in their dying moments, and
to others redemption from mistakes of the past, gave hope to a dying species, and cemented the belief that synthetics do have souls, but ultimately that doesn't matter.

After 5 years of following the story, and hoping to see the end of a conflict with millions of years of repetition,
'my' choices boil down to, "Die and kill all synthetic life, Die and 'Control' the enemy of all organic life, or Die and Give the enemy of all organic life their ultimate goal on silver platter.". That does not reflect any of my past choices, so I would actually like an answer as to why the current ending is in line with franchise.

I agree that games are art, but when you come out and say that the ending will reflect all past choices throughout the franchise and you fail to deliver, there is no possible defence.

Regarding the reviews the game as been getting, you should realise that most gamers nowadays are more than a bit sceptical, since that Gamespot fiasco, where one of the industry's most acclaimed reporter/critic was
fired due to giving a bad review. Considering most of those articles attack the same loyal, if disappointed, fans you yourselves ask feedback from, and well we have a big problem on our hands.

What most of those articles fail to acknowledge is the fact that, we are not disappointed with the game itself, since it is a work of art, until those last 5 to 10 minutes, where everything we have done up until that point, is just blatantly ignored in favour of something that is highly illogical.

Another thing most of us can't comprehend is the fact, that the destruction a mass relay is equivalent to a supernova, as of The Arrival DLC, so with that proof in hand, the destruction of the mass relays at the current ending will always lead to the extinction of all known life in the galaxy.

There are other fans who have posted their feedback on this issue, if you really do read this and take our opinions into account, please do something about that 5 to 10 minute fiasco you called an ending.

With Mass Effect 3 you managed to make me cry at 2 crucial points in the story, when Dr. Mordin Solus
sacrificed himself to cure the genophage and when Legion does the same in order to provide 'souls' for all geth. Only one other game managed that , and it was with it's ending, that game was Square-Enix's Crisis Core:
Final Fantasy VII. There is a lesson there, maybe you should pay more attention to that Bioware.

In conclusion, Bioware thank you for the revolutionary experience of a lifetime for past 5 years, but please change the ending, use something that developers around the world learn early on in their education, and that is to use
logic.

Thank you again, let's travel there and back again sometime, preferably soon.

Modifié par Kage no Ryuu, 21 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[Xyrm]

I wrote this originally elsewhere, but I feel it has merit here, to go along with the ending feedback. This is in regards to the blog post today by Dr. Muzyka.

The problem I see here is that while games ARE art, the Mass Effect trilogy specifically has to be held to different standards. Most art tells you a story; you are either looking down, or seeing thing through someone else's eyes. The most important thing being YOU ARE NOT IN CONTROL. This is where Mass Effect has let players down, in my eyes.

I imagine I'm a typical fan of the Mass Effect franchise. I'm a man in my mid twenties, have a steady job, and a pretty good life. That being said, I play games to experience a different reality, because sometimes it's fun to get away...it's like a mini-vacation! I'm not very imaginative myself; I'm very much a hard science kind of guy, which is why I turn to books, movies, and games to show me fantastic new worlds. I tend to play action RPGs mostly, because I love the concept of a hero who defies the odds, gets stronger, and saves everyone. And this is what drew me into the franchise.  I have purchased all the games, all the DLC, all the books (the latest of which was another failure, but that's another matter), and most of the comics.  I gobble up Mass Effect content.

Now lets look at what I experienced. I saved the citadel and defeated the collector menace. Awesome. Now, I'm responsible for uniting all the races and being a beacon of hope for all life in the galaxy. Great. I have to make sacrifices to get what I need. RIP Thane, Mordin, and Legion. Not going to lie: I cried. And I'm not ashamed of it. Then, no matter how perfectly I played, or how much effort I put in, I died, and left the galaxy in at least some level of disarray, even if it was technically saved.

Notice something, here. I didn't say Shepard, I said "I". This is very important to my point. By putting the endings as they did, Bioware said no matter what I cannot live happy ever after. I cannot win, even after my sacrifices. The choices I made leading up to the ending were at least to some degree meaningless (though the journey WAS epic).This is why I, and believe many others, are holding on to the Indoctrination Theory. I care because at some level, subconcious or not, *I* am Shepard. And that is just a difficult prospect for me to fathom such complete failure after so many hours of decisions and doing the right thing, after reading deeply into the universe and becoming so invested. Call me a nerd, call me a loser, I don't care.

What Bioware has to realize is this is their fault...and not in a bad way. They have created something so deep and immersive that they have actually depressed THOUSANDS of people, and let them down. In this way, I argue it is their responsibility. The game is NOT victorious and uplifting, if it was they wouldn't get this kind of reaction. If I had known going into the first game it would have ended on such a note... I probably would not have invested so much time in this series/universe... or maybe even any.

I am *AFRAID* to purchase future content from Bioware for fear of my hopes being crushed...again (and the fact that your recent games have been riddled with bugs, but that's another issue on quality altogether).  That's a testament to your ability to tell a story, but NOT to your ability to give the customers what they want.  Please don't go the "high and mighty" route with this artistic integrity nonsense.  You provide a product/service, and the consumers want it.  We are disappointed with the product we received, as it was not up to standards.  In some industries you'd be forced to do a recall or accept returns in this situation.  Please understand we don't WANT to be upset with the ending or angry with your company, and you absolutely have it in your power to fix it.

Modifié par Xyrm, 21 mars 2012 - 06:49 .

[cristov]

 I have just read post form Ray Muzyka on http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/. And I would like to share my own opinion about game ending. Only one note before - in this post we can read that game is high ranked by critics. And what does it mean for the ending - totally nothing. It is an overall rank. And I agree - ME3 deserves for more then 95/100 but not for the last 10 minutes. Why?

I have played all ME games and when plaing, I knew and I felt that I have control over all actions. End of the game was always perfect conclusion of what I have done. But in ME3 I don't feel it. Whatever I do, I can't save the galaxy - this is how I see the ending. It's like I was playing, let's say tetris for 4 hours and in the end I see on a screen "Game Over. Your score: 0". This is how ME3 ends for me.

This is why I don't expect better explanation - I want the game to reflect my actions and give me adequate result in the end. This will make me fell good, and this make me go back to the game many times. Right know I don't want to play ME3 again because this leads to nothing - what I can achieve is nothing. I know you wanted to end this game in an epic way, but I think this is not necessary - this game you created is epic in itself.
Of course after ending I would expect some epilog: maybe some more explanation about ripers origin (this idea with star child is not good - it brings the problem with chicken (ripers) and egg (star child) - which came first?), how turians and asarii are rebulding their planets, how crogans prosper (maybe some picture of small crogans?) and of course Shepard and his/her love interest. This is something what would satisfy me - something I can go back to. To the ending we have right now you don't wont to go back.

So my point is, regarding Mr. Muzyka post, that it not even about a better explanation - it is about better ending, ending you will remember in a positive way.

Shepard doesn't (and I think shouldn't) die. There is already much sacrifice in this game. Kaidan/Ash, Mordin, Thane...

Just better ending for Shepard, Earth and the galaxy...

Modifié par cristov, 21 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[Kilshrek]

I had posted this in the thread discussion Dr Muzyka's reply, but I think it wouldn't hurt to have this here as well.I don't know. The formatting may appear out on the first post, if it does I apologise and I will fix it asap.



I would really love to agree with Dr Muzyka here, but at the same time, I'm bitterly dissatisfied by what appears to be the conclusion to my 5 year journey.

Dear Dr Muzyka, you may or may not ever read this, but I will put this opinion of mine on these forums in the hope that someone on the team may see it, and if they see fit, to forward it to you, it is as much a reply to your reply, as it is to the team themselves.

I'll list the very basic points that have so disappointed me, and hopefully someone will see some sense in this :

Introducing a new character at the death. I don't know if there's a trope for this, but Harbinger was touted for the whole of ME 2 to be the main antagonist. In ME 3 there never was one, merely the Reapers, and to a degree, Cerberus. Switching antagonists at the end, from TIM, to the sudden appearance of God Child, who gives Shepard 3 choices they can't refuse, where is the choice? What does this do to reflect all that I've done, all that I've sacrificed? To have all my efforts ignored, such as performing all the C-Sec tasks, only to find out that the Citadel gets captured by the Reapers anyway, to listening stupidly to a damn AI proselytise about concepts which I had not 10 hours ago disproved in a big way, well tell me that isn't a slap in the face from the story. It's telling me, no, player, you're stupid, listen to me, I know what's what. My choices are, self sacrifice to control the Reapers, who were meant to be more like Geth, individual, with no leader; merge everything into organic-synthetic hybrids; or genocide of the Geth, whom I had just given a new lease on life.

If that's how the story ends then it reflected none of my choices, it took into account nothing I had done before, and most importantly, it railroads me into 3 choices I equally abhor. It is unacceptable, please, Dr Muzyka, realise this.

Even disregarding all the dev promises that were made along the way, it is not possible to not realise that Mass Effect was always about choice. What choices you made always came back to haunt or help you, and I believe the finest example of this was with Conrad Verner and Jenna on the Citadel. If you helped these two individuals, who had nothing to do with each other in ME 1, they would return to help you in ME 3, in a single event. That was a very nice nod to what we'd done before. Sadly, the final minutes of the game simply do not live up to this at all, to have everything stripped away, and then have three choices that have nothing to do with the game prior to this, I find it mind boggling that they should have ever made it into the final game.

Moving on to the art argument, I fully respect that games are art, but they are also art made on the feedback from the customer, us, and to say that the artist has full control over their art is a nice sentiment, but one I disagree with. We have worked with Bioware over the last 5 years to create the fine story that Mass Effect has now, we too have a small stake in the story, and should we not have a small say in how it ends? It is the most disappointing end to a game I have ever experienced, simply because I have never played a game over 5 years. 5 years Dr Muzyka, and hundreds of hours poured into the game that Bioware started, but we the players helped to create. The team may have their vision, but I respectfully say that vision was too narrow. It simply focused too closely on what Mr Hudson declares as "bittersweet", but if I were asked to provide examples of bittersweet endings, I would never consider ME 3's ending to be among such things. I would point to a famous literary example for a bittersweet ending, The Lord Of The Rings :

In the books, after Sauron is vanquished and Middle Earth is rescued from the threat of darkness, the land lay in ruin, worthy souls and loved ones were lost, but we knew that there was victory. Much that was destroyed could be rebuilt, lives that were lost could be celebrated. The four hobbits return to the Shire, where they find that Saruman had enslaved their people and destroyed their homes with industry, but the four friends had learned much on their travels, and defeated Saruman. The Shire was nearly destroyed however, but Samwise had gifts from Galadriel that could heal those wounds. Frodo's wound would never heal however, and he finally departed to the West with Gandalf and Bilbo. Thus the Fellowship was truly broken, but not before their purpose was done. And note that none of the main characters, beyond Boromir, really died.

The movies were not too different in the bittersweet ending, except that scenes were cut and straight lines were made between two points which may have taken longer to get to, Frodo still leaves with Gandalf and Bilbo, and the parting does well to capture the bittersweet moment. Dear friends must be forever parted, because some wounds will never truly heal.

I only felt absolute despair as Shepard was forced to make 3 choices that made no sense to the character, and despair as it felt that all my work was undone at the whim of a child like entity. To add to the insult was the scene with the Normandy escaping the explosion of the Catalyst, to what purpose? Why did the people I bring down to Earth abandon me in my time of need? Would my squad really abandon me in the final push to the beam? I cannot understand why they were not with me at the end. It makes no sense Dr Muzyka, and I wish you could see it from my perspective. If someone on the team would care to answer that question, and provide me with an answer as to why this was the case I could do my best to see it the way they see it.

I have said as much as I can without addressing the pre-release promises, which should be another issue altogether.

Regards,

Kilshrek
A very disappointed Mass Effect fan

[Polat995]

They will add content but not about ending. They think that the ending is so good. I won't believe their lies anymore.

Modifié par Polat995, 21 mars 2012 - 06:48 .

[Jjacobclark]

After much thought I have concluded that the real problem is this games
lack of transcendence. Instead of seeing something completely and
ontological different than materiality we are just given something
bigger and shinier than what we are. Ultimately this game asks a lot of
good questions but it all just seems pointless now. Within the game all
life and experience is just pointless, a genetic mutation.

[Pelle6666]

First priority for the changed endings should be to add more choice! Red, blue or green is not enough and actually red, destroy, is the only option that makes sense. We want more alternatives, we want to tell the Catalyst to go *** him self and we want to feel as involved in the end of the story as we've been all though the trilogy.
Closure and answers are NOT the main concern! but it would be nice too.

[AlianceN7Marine]

I've been reading a lot of the comment posted here and across the web an ME3. But i felt that I needed to explore the game fully before I could post my comments. I consider myself a Mass effect Veteran. I've played rigth from the start of Mass Effect through to Mass Effect 2 and into Mass Effect 3. I don't know how many hours I've spent playing the entire trilogy but it would be in the several hundreds. 
 
I received my ME3 Collectors edition copy at 10.00am March 9th after downloading all the new content to my Xbox I started up ME3 and imported my No 1 play through: Male default Shepard, Spacer, Sole Survivor, Paragon and with Ashley as LI (Every single side mission, Every DLC, Every Planet and resource found and collected). Then I started a 25 hour almost non stop play through of ME3. From the start all the way through to running to reach the citadel the game had delivered almost everything I wanted. The writing was epic and some of the scenes reduced me to tears:
 
The Sacrifice of Mordin, Thane and Legion
Seeing Ashley and Shepard work out their problems and finally getting back together
Garus and Sheaprds Presidium shoot out
Speaking with all the past a previous squad members on earth before the big push
Garus line Now you go out there and give them HELL was a master stroke
 
and how mad I was when Kai Lang got the better of Shepard on Thessia and then he evens sends Shepard a note gloating. I was expecting shepard to rip the console of his desk after reading that just to vent is overwhelming anger. With all this I thought if this is how the game is the ending is going to be truly epic. But after playing through to the end it was not even close. After watching the end I felt as though Mike Tyson had punched me in the gut. I was devastated.
 
And let just say that I understand what the endings meant. Before stating ME3 I fully expected that Shepard would sacrifice himself at the end and that the Mass relays would be destroyed and I didn't even look at any of the spoilers out there. It was just I had spent all this time not just on ME3 but from ME and ME2, getting to know the characters, the races, making the decisions that I thought where right for it all to mean nothing. 
 
Shepards character was always about hope. That the reapers could be defeated, that the Krogan should be cured and that the Geth have the right to exist. All this and other aspects made me believe that even if the relays are destroyed and Shepard dies the races that he helped bring together would prove that his hope for the galaxy and it's inhabitants was justified and right. But all we get to see of that is an old man and a child not the races we have come to respect and admire. 
 
My other problem is with Joker and the Normandy crashing on a jungle world with the members of Shepards squad. Lets just say that it was possible for Joker to get back to Earth and pick up the surviving squad members. Are we really supposed to believe that Joker and Shepards loyal team would run away at this point and leave Shepard to his fate. They have stuck by Shepard though thick and thin he has been there for each and everyone of them. Do you really think that when the time came that Shepard needed rescuing that they wouldn't sacrifice everything for him as he has done for them. I think not. They would try to save him or die trying not go running of to the nearest mass relay hoping to escape the blast.
 
My last point is while I said before I do understand the bitter sweet endings we have been given, one of the greatest elements of the Mass Effect universe was that there was always a perfect ending. Yes it would mean you would have sacrificed and that you would need to do everything possible and do it right. But it was there and you could see that sometimes hope is enough:
 
ME1 you can save the council, convince Saren to kill himself, Defeat Sovereign and Humanity Joins the Council.

ME2 you can save your Crew, your entire squad survives and you destroy the collector base and you tell The Illusive Man where he can shove Cerberus

ME3 Shepard survives and is reunited with his crew or at least with his love Interest, Earth and the other Home worlds are saved, The reapers are destroyed with out killing EDI and the Geth. The mass relays could still be destroyed but as we saw in ME1 the Protheans were capable of building mass relays on a small scale so they could be rebuilt and the races of the galaxy could be reunited even if it takes a few decades or so.
 
That's my view as I said the whole game before the ending is fantastic and very very well written. By this time I've completed 6 full play throughs and the ending still feels as incomplete and disappointing to me now as it did on my first play through. I truly hope that Bioware is listening to our thoughts and from the bottom of my heart I hope we can get through this together and have an ending that we all feel is a testament to the Mass Effect Universe and to all of us who have become a part of it.

[Chicken_Vulture]

I think I speak for... well, a few people I know anyway when I say that the only major issue with the ending was that it was building to such an incredible climax and that the 'starchild' was what made us so upset. The reason for that being the sudden, unexpected twist in a game that has been foreshadowing the possible conclusions all along was jarring.

The advertising and game itself made me go into the final mission with massive worry for who would make it and who wouldn't. Would my favourite characters die off if I wasn't careful? Would that one species I wasn't nice enough to get destroyed in the final battle?

Confronting the Illusive Man face to face at last, and battling with indoctrination was an excellent climax to Shepard's story. It was especially potent in that it proved that all it takes to take down an extremeist like TIM is to prove him wrong, a theme perfectly fitting with the paragon path, or that there's a line you can cross, and when you cross it you have to be put down, fitting with the renegade path. And sitting with Anderson, bleeding out, knowing it was finally over for two old soldiers and they could rest was beautiful. The comradery they showed in their final moments was the perfect sendoff for them both. That would have been the perfect ending to Shepard's story right there.

The crucible not firing was also a great little extra jolt of emotion, and seeing Shepard trying so hard to crawl over to it, only to not make it really got me on the edge of my seat. Then... the starchild. That's the only part I didn't like. Nothing about anything he said rang true for me, and Shepard's acceptance of all that was frustrating.

In my head, when Shepard collapses, that's it. Dead. What I would have loved to see was the cumulation of all my choices in the final battle that follows Shepard's death. She may be gone, but her example and her hard work has united the entire galaxy. Now let's see those battles, let's see those cured krogan stomping reapers, let's see those geth ships flanking Harbinger, let's see those Drell assassins fighting in Thane's name. And afterwards, let's see the quarians rebuild their homeworld if they survived, and let's see all the species in the galaxy on Earth, helping the devestated but heroic humanity, and so on.

Being that Shepard is dead, it can easily be totally without any more choices to make. Just a final cutscene that ties everything together. And if there are enough war assets, and Shepard really has succeeded at preparing the galaxy for this battle, the real beauty of it would be that we didn't even -need- some silly end-all weapon like the crucible. All we needed was a leader willing to sacrifice everything she had for the greater good.

So that is what I was hoping for, and it would be tremendously easy to implement. For now, I'm just going to have to imagine it.

Modifié par Chicken_Vulture, 21 mars 2012 - 06:58 .

[ALGuy]

 I just read through the blog Dr. Ray Muzyka wrote. I get the feeling the end will stay as it is and we will get further clarification. He seemed to be defending the endings with the terms artistic choices and artisitc integrity. This is a way, I assume one would defend sloppy and ill conceived work. I will try that at my place of employment. If my work becomes sub-par or even flat out awful, I will say that it was an artistic choice. If I don't follow the companies mission statement or the spirit of our policies and procedures, I will declare it is due to my artistic integrity.
The endings could have had similar options without the destruction of the mass relays, or the citadel. Shepard could have sacrificed his self to merge synthetics and organics, or he could have just controlled the Reapers without dying, or whacked out all synthetics including the geth, all without the destruction of the relays or the citadel. From an artistic standpoint they wrote a story/game that regardless of the choices, more or less, ended the same way. If the Reapers win, all technology is destroyed along with it's creators and the "cave men are left to evolve". If the Reapers are destroyed the mass relays and all tech is destroyed and the civilized races are left to reinvent the wheel, eventually creating synthetics that will turn on them again. If the Reapers are controlled, see "If the Reapers are destroyed". If Synthetics and biotics merge, see "if the Reapers are destroyed" with one difference a war between organo-synthetics and pure synthetics eventually occurs. 
So what I have learned, Artistic Choices and Artistic Integrity is how you defend poor writting and lack of vision. Lets be honest ME3's ending was not well thought out. Time Spent does not = quality.

P.S.  Dr. Muzyka, game critics mostly rate gameplay whether they want to admit it or not. I don't think anyone is complaining about the gameplay. It's the ending. It isn't bad because it isn't happy, it's just bad because it is poorly written and conceived. Also more than a few of those critics rated the game 9+ still said they didn't like the ending. This is not an attack, this is criticism. Criticism is only constructive if the recipient learns from it and corrects the problem. 

Modifié par ALGuy, 21 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[cristov]

Pelle6666 wrote...

We want more alternatives, we want to tell the Catalyst to go *** him self

And this would be the easiest thing to adopt. Shepard should convince this star child to turn off himself together with his toys. It wouldn't be the first time when Shepard is playing negotiator - in fact he (or she) is quite good in this. I think that my Shapard would handle this boy with ease. "Take your toys, and get hell out of here - party is over!"

Modifié par cristov, 21 mars 2012 - 07:00 .