23455 réponses à ce sujet

[xaurabh123]

holding the line

[cedgedc]

I have read a few of these posts. Certainly not all the hundreds of them. I thought Bioware might like to hear from someone who was on the whole quite satisfied with the ending.

I use the word satisfied because it isn't exactly a happy ending, is it? But I get it. From the get go, when you first learned what you were up against- reapers; Machines who's entire function is to end galactic civilizations with efficiency and precision, you had to know that you weren't going to get a fairytale ending.

Having read all the books, all the comics, and played all the games who knows how many times, I knew to be prepared for an ending which would leave me conflicted. As Shepard even states "Each and every one of you needs to be willing to die. Anything less, and you're already dead!"  I took that to heart. I was ready for Shepard and her whole crew to go in and die if it meant the Reapers went with us.

So it was that at the finish, I felt shaken as many of you did, but I understood that this was the intended ending. Many people didn't like the business with the 'Entity' at the end, and I understand that.. But in retrospect, it made all to much sense to me. All the times reapers had used words like "ascention" and "perfection" as being the fate of our civilizations... it makes sense.

And frankly the delivery... The slow motion.. Shepard being completely ravaged, all her allies laying dead, grabbing a measly pistol and trudging on, knowing full well she's bleeding out with every step. I have never been more on the edge of my seat!

I have but one problem with the ending: Why were Liara and Garrus (or whoever you all chose as your final strike crew) on the Normandy at the end? I assumed they were dead. They made the charge with Shepard. They weren't at my back, so they had to be dead. That is the only acceptible reason.

Their being on the Normandy means that what they did was abandon Shepard when she needed them most! When she was bleeding out and clawing her way onto the Citadel, they ran back to the Normandy to escape. The mission was to push through to the citadel AT ALL COSTS. Are we to understand that they simply didn't take this to heart? This does not fit. It doesn't belong.

Apart from this, I loved the ending. When I saw Shepard's mangled chestplate amongst the ruins of the Citadel.. and the breath! I cheered. What is more badass than a veritable diety telling you that you will die if you kill the reapers, and a mangled dying shepard stubbornly saying: "No!"

Sure I could have used more epilogue, and I wouldn't argue against adding some scenes to show what happens to everyone.. Also maybe a bit more information about just where the heck my crew crash landed. Are we to understand that they're going to be the next Adam's and Eve's of that world?

When you're ending a massive trilogy, think Lord of the Rings. There's a trilogy that carried on for pages, long after the primary threat was ended and main conflict resolved. There's no rush to just end it! We sat through 3 games (many of us, several times each!), you're not gonna lose us in the last 20 minutes. Drag it out a bit! Let's see what happens to everyone!

Anyways, I don't know if anyone will read this, but if you do, cheers!  And to Bioware: Way to make a kick ass game! 

[kingpenn_]

 i actually enjoyed the ending of mas effect 3 not the one i would have wanted and if bioware where to keep the ending i would suggest they make a dlc and have it start like 5 years later the citidal starts going haywire like the normady is when edi is switching over tho the android but its shepard (provided that you chose to control the reapers or synthisised with the crusibale) and shepards LI or a squad mate comes to investigat about a rouge sheperd vi but it turns out to be him and either two things could happen one shepard dorps a bomb that he found out that cerberus cloned him but it has a synthetic brain so shepard can meld with it and sience shepard has no body the Li hould have to break in and get the body or he becomes a synthitic like edi with control of the reaper powers and then you can go around the galaxy like tuchanka see it changing and go to the homeworlds and just explore and talk to people and visit earth take your Li on a date see the galaxy that sort of thing 

p.s. if you are gonna change any thing about the ending dont let the mass relays get blown up if aftertyou choose then the whole point of getting all the races united is kind of a mute point 

thank you for reading and i hope you read/like my idea:happy: message me feedback please

[Bloodhound66]

So I beat the game finally. Like the majority of the community, I find the ending to be entirely lacking. 99% of the entire series was immediately discarded in a matter of 10 minutes. I can break it down like this:

The most intense battle I've ever had in a video game. Banshee's and an instant-death reaper laser and multiple marauders, followed by and epic mad-dash towards the transporter.

I'm thinking, "Holy crap! This is the greatest game ever made!" I'm hit by the laser, and I gotta get to the Citadel, I'm still hooked at this point. The Illusive Man's part was pretty good. Still, I'm confused as to how he ended up at the Citadel, and how exactly he became such an indoctrinated tool of the reapers.

Immediately upon entering the Catalyst's part of the Citadel, a series of confusing and very Matrix-like events began to take shape. I basically thought, through that entire last conversation, that I was watching the end of Matrix: Revolutions. The Catalyst was the Architect, the entire premise was an ongoing battle between synthetic life and it's creators, and Shepard was Neo. He of course, changed the usual, timeless, events of that cycles end. The only thing missing was an artificial world which people thought was real life.

I was confused as to what was going on exactly, and than I had to make the final decision. Because I played as a paragon the whole series, and my "energy" would be spread among all life; I figured I'd jump. I thought the ending suited my role well, and I was overall happy to see Edi and Joker in the end share a new outlook on life. I wanted to know what the hell happened to EVERYONE ELSE though. Also, the catalyst was clearly one of the most important characters throughout the series. Why so little dialogue?

Then, I tried the other endings, and found out that it was basically the same no matter what you choose. This was a major disappointment. Even more disappointing is when I found out I might as well not even bother with a renegade play-through, cause this too has no impact on the ending's events. And as I continued to think about the ending, all the same questions I am now reading throughout these pages began to surface.

"How exactly did Joker make it out of the war? ... On Arrival, I killed all life in that relays section. So did I kill everyone anyways? ... Did all those aliens get stuck by Earth? ... etc,etc.

And as I read more about other people's questions, I caught even more that I had missed. Like how free will was taken out of the equation. And now all I can think to myself is, "Man, this was the greatest game trilogy I've ever played. But, what a sh**** ending."

This is why I think the folks at BioWare should strongly consider an alternate ending that sheds some more light on the questions it brings. The relays being destroyed raises the biggest loophole in the plot's end. I'm trying not to sound immature or entitled. I just think it would be a shame to end one of the greatest stories on such a sour note. I don't see it as fans not accepting a "bitter-sweet" moment. It feels cheap to spend so much time conversing and gaining insight to this universe, only to have it all undone in a matter of minutes.

That's my 2-cents. Hope you're listening BioWare. Despite the end, we can't discredit the hardworking staff of such an amazing series, and I do thank the entire staff for all their efforts.

Modifié par Bloodhound66, 21 mars 2012 - 08:16 .

[Bill Casey]

www.youtube.com/watch

Angry Joe (From That Guy With The Glasses) on the Indoctrination Theory and why it makes so much sense...

[jeweledleah]

Ganjagorga wrote...

My favourite moment was when the Illusive man mentioned that I'd kept the collector base instead of destroying it as I thought I might actually see the results of the most important decision in ME2...but I didn't! Sorry guys, great game play but the story just fell at the last hurdle and not enough decision repercussions from my 2 ME1 and 6 ME2 playthroughs.

the only reason I imported another Shepard is to see if there would be any differences.  other then  "irradiated" instead of "vaporized"  and one different sentence from Illusive Man (oh and almost forgot - 10 extra war asset points >_> )?  there was absolutely no difference.  sigh.. the only way it shows is if you speed through the game, as it decides the default low EMS choice for you. but I personaly found it difficult to keep EMS that low.  about as difficult as orcestrating "Shepard dies" in suicide mission, except with less impact.

[christophershawmyjaffacake]

Just saw the recent blog post that chris priestly posted a link to http://blog.bioware.com/ , and sorry but stating that 'most of the fans are happy with it' is complete folly Bioware. Im assuming since you wrote the blog post you can read, and seeing as chris priestly started this post which is now 350 pages long filled with 99% negative comments in regards to the ending that obviously most fans arent happy with it.

dont make out the unhappy fans are the minority when we are in fact the majority (and i dont give a damn what critics gave it a thumbs up!)

Bioware messed up the ending, at least own up to it instead of trying to brush aside your fan base.

considering what is pouring on our heads at least have the common courtesy to not try and have us believe it is rain...

Modifié par christophershawmyjaffacake, 21 mars 2012 - 08:06 .

[Sugars]

Hi Bioware,

I have read quite a lot of the responses on this monster discussion thread and thought I would post my own views.

I have been playing video games for more years that I care to mention and over these years I have sat through some truely great and some truely woeful games...

When Mass Effect was released in 2007 I didnt really know what to expect, I had played previous Bioware games (KOTR and Jade Empire) and really enjoyed them so I had high hopes. After completing Mass Effect I was blown away. It was one of the best gaming experiences I had ever had and needless to say I couldnt wait for a sequel....

Mass Effect 2 arrived in 2010 and in my opinion it was better than its predecessor. The choices you had to make and the direct effect they had on the outcome of the final mission were astounding. There were very few faults I could voice about this game and my respect for the Mass Effect franchise went through the roof. With excellent DLC (Lair of the Shadow Broker) it was a privilage to play this game.

Now we come to Mass Effect 3.... Let me first say, the game itself is excellent, the idea of gathering you war assets are resolving trilogy lasting issues really gives the feeling of overall closure..... Closure being the key word. We then come to the final mission, the assault on London, batttling through the streets, dealing death to the hordes of enemies coming at you. You finally make it to the beam tower and Harbinger lands on the ground and you have to run to the beam... I really cant convey how exicting this was. You are getting closer and closer when all of a sudden Harbingers laser hits you square on and then darkness....

In my opinion what then happens is one of the great gaming travesties... The complaints from all of the other posters here cover my feelings pretty well. The bizarre 'Godchild' and the unfortunate A, B, C final selection...

Now, I have no problem with Shepard dieing, I think this is perfectably acceptable way to end the game, he makes the ultimate sacrifice to rid the galaxy of the Reapers. It just seems that no matter what choice you select you are punished in some way (death and / or destruction of the relays). As I have said I dont want the 'hollywood ending' but I just feel as if we, the gamer are being punished not matter what we do...

However, if I am being honest its not the A, B, C choice that really annoys me, its the scenes after that, the Normandy crashing on the planet and the Shepard 'Breath scene', these dont add anything but confusion! We have no closer and more confusion...

At this point I would just like to say the only reason I have written this to complain is because of the incredibly high standards you have set yourselves. In my opinion the Mass Effect trilogy has taken the gaming experience to a new level, the story, the immersion and the fact that you have been able to make the player care so much about the characters you have created says it all.

Like the other contributers to this thread all I am asking is that you look at the comments and the praise that has been awarded and deliver us an ending that will make most players happy. I myself would be happy with the ending being the same but with a lot more explanation on what happened to my friends etc. If you decide to totally change the entire ending I would be delighted as well.

Finally, if you do decide to change the ending in any way in an attempt to make your fans happy you will have gone up even higher in my estimation.

Thanks for a great gaming trilogy and hopefully you will give us the ending that not only the players deserve but what Mass Effect deserves!

Hold the Line

Steve

Modifié par Sugars, 21 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[sagefic]

Omnike wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

xFyre1 wrote...

Reply from the Mass Effect twitter to some random user:

"We suggest reading both Ray and Casey's statements. We will be creating additional content, not taking any away."

Interpret as you will.

Makes sense, not everyone is unhappy. Changing what is would just create another group of unhappy campers, instead of purely trying to appease the current one.

Yes.

(Hi Ottemis - I know we totally chose different endings, but I also know we're totally happy with them.)

I love the StarChild scene. I really do. You just replaced a boss battle with a crafty argument - and the shooting is stopped cold in this moment of choice. I find it to be this incredible moment where Shepard is forced to chose what she/he is going to stand for in the final battle. I full-up buy the indoctrination theory, but even if you don't, it's a pretty awesome moment to make Shepard chose for the future of the galaxy in this crazy way. I veer right to red hardcore, and watching Shepard take a stand in that way just gave me the chills. I LOVE it.

HOWEVER.... That's not an end. That's the critical turning point of the story, the climax of the story. That's Frodo and Sam lying on the side of Mt. Doom with the ring's fate decided; that's Luke turning off the lightsaber and saying 'I will not kill my father.' That's the moment of truth: but it's not an ending, not really.

I mean, BioWare *could* end it there, but that leaves you with an epic that has no real conclusion. There's no playing out of the choices you made - even that critical choice with StarChild. There's no explanation for how the galaxy survives, what happens to your friends, what happens to Shepard, even. The brief cut-scenes at the end are so vague and error-laden (how is Kaidan magically teleported to the Normandy in his civvies when a moment ago he went down with the blast that hit Shepard?) that I find them no consolation. And to have the stargazer and grandson muse on Shepard's ending isn't really a conclusion either.

In short, I don't get this 'change' the endings. There IS no ending, not yet. There is a critical turning point that does not play out. There is a climax to the story that points to a few possible paths out of this mess. But there is not an ending, not really.

So as for endings, I just want to see them.

What argument? And what final battle? I also haven't got an explanation for the plot holes..

sorry, let me clarify: i assume indoctrination theory, so i sometimes forget that not everyone does. i completely think that starchild is trying to trick shepard into giving up the fight (shameless self-promotion: my uber-long blog post about why everything StarChild says is wrong). i read this 'choice' as basically trying to get you to go wrong in the way of the Illusive Man by taking control (but no one can handle that kind of power, so you end up indoctrinated) or going wrong in the way of Saren by synthesizing (but in doing so, you are brought into the reaper fold and made one of them and so indoctrinated). i take it that his words are really a shield of lies and the only way out is destruction. 'we fight or we die' - that's the way out.  i think StarChild is trying to argue circles around you, distracting you with this claim that synthetics and organics must always come to confict, when it seems to me quite clear this isn't so.  besides, even if it WAS, why cull all space-faring species every 50k years? why not just monitor the situation and drop in when organics make synthetics? the geth have been around for a few centuries, and just now the reapers are getting on the case? gimme a break.

but i digress.

so i take it that BioWare gave us this wild decision point rather than a final boss battle. i would like to SEE the final battle in terms of taking back earth. that's sort of what i thought this game was advertising.

So, sorry, let me clarify:

I LIKE the 'take a stand' moment with StarChild. I especially like it because I totally buy the indoctrination theory. But even if you DON'T buy indoctrination theory, what happens at the 'end' is not an end from a story point of view. It's the climax/critical turning point. The ending still needs to follow.

So rather than wanting a 'change' to the end, I jsut want the end.

I hope i'm being clearer now. 

Modifié par sagequeen, 21 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[cedgedc]

Bloodhound66 wrote...
Still, I'm confused as to how he ended up at the Citadel, how exactly he became such an indoctrinated tool of the reapers.

Reading some of the comics as well as the novels fills in a lot of these blanks. The comics will speak to how the Illusive Man was exposed to Reaper tech. The novels give you a very interesting insight on how incidiously and progressively indoctrination can take hold, especially on a more strong willed and inteligent host like the Illusive Man.

Admittedly there were a lot of references in the 3rd game which you would only pick up from having read some of this extra content. It's well worth your time if you're curious!

[Omnike]

For those that might be curious about the indoctrination theory, Angry Joe sums it up really well with a bit of help from Acavyos (spelling?).

[Omnike]

sagequeen wrote...

Omnike wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

xFyre1 wrote...

Reply from the Mass Effect twitter to some random user:

"We suggest reading both Ray and Casey's statements. We will be creating additional content, not taking any away."

Interpret as you will.

Makes sense, not everyone is unhappy. Changing what is would just create another group of unhappy campers, instead of purely trying to appease the current one.

Yes.

(Hi Ottemis - I know we totally chose different endings, but I also know we're totally happy with them.)

I love the StarChild scene. I really do. You just replaced a boss battle with a crafty argument - and the shooting is stopped cold in this moment of choice. I find it to be this incredible moment where Shepard is forced to chose what she/he is going to stand for in the final battle. I full-up buy the indoctrination theory, but even if you don't, it's a pretty awesome moment to make Shepard chose for the future of the galaxy in this crazy way. I veer right to red hardcore, and watching Shepard take a stand in that way just gave me the chills. I LOVE it.

HOWEVER.... That's not an end. That's the critical turning point of the story, the climax of the story. That's Frodo and Sam lying on the side of Mt. Doom with the ring's fate decided; that's Luke turning off the lightsaber and saying 'I will not kill my father.' That's the moment of truth: but it's not an ending, not really.

I mean, BioWare *could* end it there, but that leaves you with an epic that has no real conclusion. There's no playing out of the choices you made - even that critical choice with StarChild. There's no explanation for how the galaxy survives, what happens to your friends, what happens to Shepard, even. The brief cut-scenes at the end are so vague and error-laden (how is Kaidan magically teleported to the Normandy in his civvies when a moment ago he went down with the blast that hit Shepard?) that I find them no consolation. And to have the stargazer and grandson muse on Shepard's ending isn't really a conclusion either.

In short, I don't get this 'change' the endings. There IS no ending, not yet. There is a critical turning point that does not play out. There is a climax to the story that points to a few possible paths out of this mess. But there is not an ending, not really.

So as for endings, I just want to see them.

What argument? And what final battle? I also haven't got an explanation for the plot holes..

sorry, let me clarify: i assume indoctrination theory, so i sometimes forget that not everyone does. i completely think that starchild is trying to trick shepard into giving up the fight (shameless self-promotion: my uber-long blog post about why everything StarChild says is wrong). i read this 'choice' as basically trying to get you to go wrong in the way of the Illusive Man by taking control (but no one can handle that kind of power, so you end up indoctrinated) or going wrong in the way of Saren by synthesizing (but in doing so, you are brought into the reaper fold and made one of them and so indoctrinated). i take it that his words are really a shield of lies and the only way out is destruction. 'we fight or we die' - that's the way out.  i think StarChild is trying to argue circles around you, distracting you with this claim that synthetics and organics must always come to confict, when it seems to me quite clear this isn't so.  besides, even if it WAS, why cull all space-faring species every 50k years? why not just monitor the situation and drop in when organics make synthetics? the geth have been around for a few centuries, and just now the reapers are getting on the case? gimme a break.

but i digress.

so i take it that BioWare gave us this wild decision point rather than a final boss battle. i would like to SEE the final battle in terms of taking back earth. that's sort of what i thought this game was advertising.

So, sorry, let me clarify:

I LIKE the 'take a stand' moment with StarChild. I especially like it because I totally buy the indoctrination theory. But even if you DON'T buy indoctrination theory, what happens at the 'end' is not an end from a story point of view. It's the climax/critical turning point. The ending still needs to follow.

So rather than wanting a 'change' to the end, I jsut want the end.

I hope i'm being clearer now. 

Yes you are. Thank you :happy:

[Xenite]

This will probably be my last post on this thread, it's apparent after reading Mr. Muzyka's letter that Bioware really isn't listening to us anyways. And this whole thread has been pointless PR exercise by them.

He ignores the fact that thousands of Bioware fans have been outraged at the travesty that was ME3's ending. Instead he talks of professional reviewers (most of which survive on EA advertisement revenue) and gives really little recognition to the fans, or seems to refuse to even accept that they gave us a broken ending. It's not just the fans, most of the well known independent reviewers have taken our side in the cause.

As a customer who owns every Bioware game made, all the DLC as well as books. My trust in Bioware now is fairly non-existent... But I guess since I don't review games for a living my voice and the thousands of other customer voices mean nothing to Bioware.

I'm disappointed in you Bioware.

[bloodstone2007]

some suggestions... First off the tag line is take back earth... the war doesn't have to end in ME3. That being said, pick up the indoctrination and have them pulling shepard from the rubble. the tower of light is gone, turned off by the reapers to prevent shepard from reaching the citadel, they have to then go to extream measures to land on the citadel, perhaps having joker piloting the shuttle. You then have shephard do the teams to get into the citadel, first one there activates the pedals to open for the catalyst. Depending on who you have as squadmates and how you situate them and who goes with shepard can play some role in how things go. The illusive man is indoctrinated and completely mad, thinking he can control the reapers, not reliseing hes the one controlled. Shepard has to put him down, then they need to figure out A) what the crucible does and b)how to use it. they realise that the crucible + the citadel(catalyst) use some kind of dark energy to fire a beam of intense power, with no recharge time. Its a weapon, one so powerful that it could destroy planets or stars. The implications of it are staggering. So earth is freed of reaper infestation, and now those various groups turn to the one person they trust shepard. Where they go from there is that each world wants help, how do you decide who gets saved next. I disreguard all space magic...The only reason I could see for destroying the mass relays is if they are reapers. Kind of like servers for the Geth. Just my thoughts.

[E_v_e_n]

I'm an official Indoctrination Theory believer after watching that video... The ending suddenly made so much more sense to me now...

[Omnike]

E_v_e_n wrote...

I'm an official Indoctrination Theory believer after watching that video... The ending suddenly made so much more sense to me now...

Was it Angry Joe's? Or acavyo's?

[Thanatos144]

I still say the whole game was brilliant.....Even the ending. It is a damn good story and glad I got to enjoy it.

[GargamelLeNoir]

I'm not very happy to see that people still come here and ask why we all request a happy ending. Come on guys, it's 350 pages of saying the same list : We want an ending that makes sense, not necessarily happy!
The bioware post saying that unhappy fans are a minority is incredibly insulting, it's outright lie :/ PR at its lowest. Looks like some EA guys in suit and ties don't see the problem of ME3 being identified in more and more mainstream medias at "this game that was great but with an ending that most of the fans hated so much"... It CAN'T be good for the sales of the game, it's not possible!
Also, even if they carefully ignore addressing directly our issues and pretending they don't see how many we are, I'm pretty sure they keep checking this topic every day. I don't think they read all the posts, but they see that every day, dozens of people arrive with the same story. "Finished the game, loved it but the end ruined it for me". Every. Day. It's a huge pressure on them. Let's keep it on. We do it for them as much as for us. I'm sure that the artistic community would be grateful if it learned that Leonardo thought about giving a troll face to Mona Lisa but was talked out of it by its fans.

[JMA22TB]

Since it's been made clear now that there are initiatives to address the ending, I want to put in my thoughts about how the ending can be improved.

The most compelling idea out there by the community itself is the indoctrination theory.

The video by ACAVYOS here makes the most stunning and well explained case:


First I have to address a number of problems that I know would come up if this course was taken. While the artistic intention would be to create a plot twist that coherently sticks to the story, all anyone who isn't following the game and doesn't care about how the story ends is going to say is "Wow they not only changed their ending but said that none of it really happened? Damn it must have been terrible!" Would that be accurate? Depends who you ask. That is not something anyone wants to be said about their work.

Second I think the writers and producers see what's at stake with this situation. If they drastically change their ending it sets a precedent for the entire gaming community to be more assertive to game developers if they are not satisfied with the product they get. While that might be good for some developers, especially ones with a huge budget, this reaction will make creating video game stories even more difficult than it was before.

Finally, what kind of message does that send to the world about what you think of your writing team? If the fans make a campaign and rage floods your forums and you change significant parts of the ending then a writer applying to work for BioWare is going to wonder "Wow if we do something that people don't like they're going to make me rewrite my work and apologize for how bad it is? Even if critics give the work nearly perfect scores?"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That being said though.

The indoctrination theory provides the means to accomplish several goals that would provide a glorious conclusion to the series.

1) The entire player base witnesses an attempt at indoctrination first hand and has to overcome it

The beauty of this direction is that it's thought provoking, fits with the game's lore, and gives your player the opportunity to actually choose to doom yourself to defeat. This would be the utter definition of choosing your own fate and change the fate of decision based story telling in video games forever. In the context of Mass Effect, this is arguably the Reapers' most effective weapon and it is only appropriate that the hero of the story has to face it.

2) It leaves open the possibility of standing up, gun in hand, friends at your side, and fight for your destiny.

Heroes should fight for their victory when they've been doing it the whole series. Why that doesn't happen in ME3 doesn't matter at this point because that doesn't happen. In this model, however, Shepard can fight off indoctrination and fight for his destiny. Nearly 100% of the fan base would support that.

3) It reframes the Star Child from what will be the most hated character in video game history into a ploy

Honestly, there is so much hatred for the Catalyst avatar I can't quantify it. That character is the most awful and jarring breakaway from the series' direction that could possibly have been imagined. Nobody is going to protest turning the Star Child into a dream character I can guarantee you that.

4) Allows more explanation about the Crucible, Catalyst, the Reapers, and the Mass Relays before choosing your fate

We do not have any idea what the Crucible is other than what ancient VIs have told us. How do we know it's not another trap? Especially after it's supposedly activated by the Citadel which is the trap the Reapers used to pull off their original sneak attack for millennia. This would give the team the opportunity to answer those questions as well as the importance of the Reapers and the how their fate is tied to the mass relays.

If we have to choose between being able to keep the mass relays or destroying the Reapers that makes the ending much more intense and, to use Casey Hudson's words,

5) Allows the Illusive Man and Anderson the possibility of a better fate

Something I've seen people notice is how the Illusive Man throws away his ability to control Reaper troops. If he's indoctrinated that makes sense, but in Indoctrination Theory he can become more important to the fate of the galaxy. This would also give the Collector Base decision more importance - if he has plenty of material to research he might have been able to improve the signal he got from Henry Lawson and change the fate of the entire war effort.

Anderson died a pretty unbelievable death. There is no way he would have followed Shepard up through one path and make it to the console after the whole force retreated. Anderson's death was emotional but illusory and in Indoctrination theory that would have been proven to be another assault on Shepard's mind by killing his or her mentor.

6) Epilogue and Closure

Finally, the opportunity for you to find out how all those decisions played out and what the galaxy looks like moving forward. How do the turians, krogan, salarians, Alliance, asari, and all your friends live the rest of their lives if they survive? If Shepard dies a hero, let's see his or her sacrifice honored. If Shepard is indoctrinated, let's see the agonizing outcome of the betrayal and Reaper victory.

The ending as is with Joker crash landing on a planet with your crew is just awful and agonizing. That needs to change big time.

Those are my two cents hope you guys read it and consider it

EDIT:

I also wanted to mention something about critics. They are paid to review media and provide their opinion. That's all. I know they are sort of the power brokers in the entertainment industry because a lot of people who don't make their own opinions or don't have time to want to get a number before they choose to invest in an experience, but when tens of thousands of people are upset and possibly hundreds of thousands are nodding their head, I don't think it's time to take the critics' opinion as seriously as the growing number of upset players.

The critics will always be there. The players will not.

I agree with the idea that you've got to say good things about your product. I honestly believe most of the critics are right about most of the game. The ending, however, is almost universally despised by the players. Nearly every poll out there has 80 percent or more saying it needs to be changed, it's awful, etc. It is great that the team is taking initiatives toward the ending, but please keep it in perspective. The vast majority of players are upset with the ending the data can't be argued with.

Thank you.

Modifié par JMA22TB, 21 mars 2012 - 08:29 .

[E_v_e_n]

Omnike wrote...

E_v_e_n wrote...

I'm an official Indoctrination Theory believer after watching that video... The ending suddenly made so much more sense to me now...

Was it Angry Joe's? Or acavyo's?

Haha, people are posting so quickly xD It was this one: 
  I think acavyo's. 

[Raven1310]

 I personally think ME3 was a realy good game. I enjoyed the combat situations and, most of all, watching how the events of the story unfolded.I doubt i've ever been moved quite as much by a video game than by this one, in particular the events on Tuchunka and Rannoch.  I was quite eager to see how the story would come to an end, and was unpleasantly suprised by the ending. I didn't expect the ending to be all sugar and rainbows, but i had expected the ending to, at the very least, make some sense, which it, sadly, didn't. The main reason behind my dissapointment of the ending is the high quality of the rest of the story of ME3, ME2 and the original ME, as well as the fact that in raises more questions than it gives answers. It just contrasts too heavily with the quality of the rest of the story. However, i have to say that i have never before seen a video game inspire this much action and discussion in relation to the ending, ranging from discussion at the forums, fanart at deviantart etc. and a fundraising action for Child's play. All in all, ME3 was an excelent game, but the ending totaly destroys the feeling of immersion i had with the ME universe; after all, how can you familiarize yourself with something that makes very little to no sense at all?

[cedgedc]

sagequeen wrote...

esides, even if it WAS, why cull all space-faring species every 50k years? why not just monitor the situation and drop in when organics make synthetics? the geth have been around for a few centuries, and just now the reapers are getting on the case? gimme a break.

You share some interesting thoughts. I wanted to share one with you here. While I didn't like everything I was hearing from the Starchild, I didn't feel that it didn't make sense.

Take the example of the Protheans:  (WARNING: DLC SPOILERS TO FOLLOW) 

They admit themselves that they dominate or destroy every species that comes to prominence during their reign. No other species is given an option to grow and prosper beyond a certain point.

(Spoiler End)

Hence the Starchild relates that not all Organic life is harvested, so that new civilizations can come about. To look at it another way, It's like picking ripened fruit from a tree before it spoils, allowing new fruit to grow.

And also you make the ripened fruit into pies and fruit salads (which we all know is fruit perfection.)

[Grusome11]

Cross posted from another thread.

Cross posted from my Blog

To Dr Ray Muzyka, from a Mass Effect 3 fan

Thank
you for taking the time to respond to the Mass Effect fan base
regarding this controversy. You have every right to be proud of the work
you and your company has done in the past. BioWare is a company that
produces  high quality games and has an excellent team behind it. I am
sure most of the fans, even the ones presently criticizing Mass Effect
would agree. I have been following the controversy regarding the ending
of Mass Effect 3, and most of the criticism seems to stem from the last
ten to fifteen minutes of the game. It is a testament to you and your
company that you have released so many quality games over the years.

However,
your comments do not address the key points brought forth by your
critics, specifically the final ending of this trilogy. The final
sequence seems to break some conventions of good storytelling. I would
like to note a few examples:

Themes: The theme of free
will is a constant throughout the series. Often the main character,
Commander Shepard, is faced with a one sided choice presented to him by
other characters. In just about every circumstance, the player, as
Shepard, can reject the choices given to him and take a different path.
The final choice given to the player by the alien AI rejects this theme.
Shepard is forced to accept one of the solutions as presented by the
alien AI, an entity that he has been struggling against for 3 games.
Although he questions every other solution presented to him throughout
the series, at the finale, he blindly accepts the reason and logic of
his ultimate enemy.

The theme of organic vs synthetic life is
also prominent throughout all three games. In Mass Effect 3, Shepard is
finally able to see the real reason for the Geth/Quarian war. The player
has the opportunity to solve this problem, freeing the Geth, allowing
them to become individuals and ending their conflict with the Quarians.
This theme is undone when the alien AI claims organic and synthetic life
cannot live in peace, although Shepard has proved that it is possible
and he is unable to question this assumption.

Underdeveloped Ending:
With all the time and effort put into the storytelling of the series,
the final ending appears underdeveloped and rushed. The logic used by
the alien AI can be summed up as follows: In order to protect you from
inventing artificial intelligence which will evolve and kill you, I have
created this hybrid artificial intelligence which returns every 50
thousand years to kill you. The circular logic is obvious and is not
present anywhere else in the trilogy.

Plot Inconsistencies:
Mass Effect Relays – Throughout the 3 games, the key goal of Commander
Shepard is to save the galaxy. This is his overriding motivation. Yet,
in all three endings the Mass Effect relays explode. Even if these
explosions do not destroy the solar system they were in, as established
in ME2 DLC The Arrival, creating a holocaust far worse than the Reapers
so far, travel throughout the galaxy would be ended. This would strand
thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands of non humans, some of whom it
has been established cannot eat human food, on a planet that has been
destroyed by the Reapers invasion. In addition, certain other planets
which cannot survive without help, such as the Krogan planet, are likely
to starve, or devolve into tribal fighting, something which Shepard has
spent considerable effort to prevent.

Normandy Escape – During
the battle for Earth, it is established that the Normandy and its pilot,
the character Joker, is engaged with the Reapers. Yet, immediately
after Shepard makes his final choice, we see the Normandy racing to
escape a blast wave. Did the character of Joker leave the ultimate
battle right in the middle? Were the  other characters on the ship, all
of whom have demonstrated loyalty and faith in Commander Shepard, simply
decided to flee without a thought to trying to save, or even ascertain
the fate of their beloved commander?

Normandy Crash – After the
escape scene, the Normandy is shown to be crashed on some jungle like
planet and Joker walks off the ship, followed by two other crew members.
It has been previously established that Joker has a condition that
makes his bones brittle and prone to breaking. How is he able to walk
off the ship, after what appears to be a serious crash under his own
power? Furthermore, some players have reported that often one of the
other two members who exit the ship are a member of Commander Shepard's
party during the run to the beam, all of whom were reported as killed.
How did these characters survive the run to the beam and how did they
get onto the Normandy in the middle of the biggest space battle in
galactic history?

There are additional plot inconsistencies but I believe these are the main ones.

Although
I am sure most of the critics of Mass Effect 3 enjoyed the game
immensely, you can see how the discarding of some themes, the
underdeveloped ending, and plot inconsistencies could detract from the
enjoyment of what would otherwise arguably be the best story in video
game history.

I, and many other fans, would appreciate it if you
addressed these questions in order that we could understand the vision
you have laid out.

Sincerely,
A fan

Edited for format. Suggest a preview function for this forum.

[Omnike]

E_v_e_n wrote...

Omnike wrote...

E_v_e_n wrote...

I'm an official Indoctrination Theory believer after watching that video... The ending suddenly made so much more sense to me now...

Was it Angry Joe's? Or acavyo's?

Haha, people are posting so quickly xD It was this one: 
  I think acavyo's. 

Yeah, it's a real good theory. He added on it too. It sold me, even if it isn't officially what Bioware was going for. I'd check out Angry Joe's too, he adds a lot of points. he references this video quite a bit too.

 

[Vholien]

 Well, they asked for feedback, so in the off-chance that anyone with influence over the future development of the game reads this...

• I found 99% of the game to be superb. It has many amazing moments, and wraps up the subplots established in the previous games in amazing ways (for example genophage and quarian/geth subplots). In many ways, I feel that the main story of the trilogy has always been secondary to your interactions /emotional connections with your teammates. Once again, these interactions are among the best I've experienced in a game.
• I was fairly disappointed by the ending...(to put it mildly!)  In my opinion, there was a major disconnect with how the rest of the series "felt", which started with the introduction of the Catalyst. This entire sequence felt slightly contrived, and, honestly, a bit cliché. From a story-telling point of view, introducing a "god-child" in the final moments of a story that has played out over more than 50hrs is not brilliant .
• The Catalyst aside, the presented motivation for the Reapers at the very end had poor exposition. Many people have complained that the given reasoning behind the Reapers was illogical (Synthetics created to kill organics to stop synthetics killing organics?!?). I feel, however, that this is not actually a problem (this is speculation on my part based on the currently available dialog with the Catalyst), and that the reasons given can be interpreted thus; the Reapers were created to stop the most advanced civilizations from creating synthetics that get out of control and turn the entire galaxy into "grey goo". The Reaper's original creators would then be some ancient race that was nearly exterminated by synthetics created by some species unknown to them, and created the Reapers and the Cycle to protect themselves from the rest of the galaxy, This also explains why the Mass Relay system was created; so that advanced life-forms can be found and removed as threats. The Crucible can also be seen as a "fail-safe" designed by the Reapers' original creators. With some more/better dialog at the end, this scenario can be presented, while maintaining the theme of the current ending. I still think that the Catalyst as a "god-child" is not a good idea nor particularly original, and another way to give the more detailed exposition is needed.
• With regards to the final choice (Control/Destroy/Synthesis), I felt that the Control and Destroy options fall within the framework already laid out in the series (they also fit my own theory regarding the ending). The Synthesis ending does not live up to the same standard, in the sense that it is not believable with regards to the "science" of the ME universe as presented in the preceeding 3 games! No explanation is given for how any of the 3 choices actually work, and thus gives the appearance of "space magic". This is, once again, very unsatisfying presented at the very end of a story in which it has previously not existed. If my previous hypothesis is correct, the Control and Destroy options become more explainable; they are designed into the entire system and can be thought of as a form of "master override" for the Reapers. (Disregarding the destruction of all synthetics in the Destroy case.)
• The ending does not really reflect the idea that your choices matter in any substantial way apart from some, rather arbitrary, number representing War Assets. The presentation of only a few choices at the end should not mean that everything you have done before is inconsequential. Instead, there should be some presentation of how your final choice effects your previous choices. The ending as it is now gives no indication that after the destruction of the Mass Relays anything you previously accomplished has any bearing on the galaxy. I have, theoretically, no problem with the destruction of the relays, (indeed, I found the sequence where the entire relay system lights up to be aesthetically pleasing and well done), provided that some reason is given as to why this does not doom pretty much everybody (for instance all the fleets gathered at Earth). People claim that the Arrival DLC proves that the destruction of a relay causes the destruction of the system it is in, but it is not hard to envision that a somewhat "controlled" destruction might have a different outcome to crashing an asteroid into it. Likewise, some people have done calculations regarding the possibilities of travel in a galaxy without relays, but this remains pure speculation. In my opinion, given the proper presentation, the destruction of the relay system is actually very interesting, it means that Shepard has had a massive effect on the future of the galaxy, and given the right epilogue it is conceivable that this is not just destroying everything. I know that it part of the devs goal to create lots of speculation regarding the ending, but it appears to have done so at the cost of the link between choices and consequences, which was a major part of the games leading up to the ending.
• I felt the Normandy crash landing sequence was very out of place. No context or reasoning was given, and it appeared to even be slightly bugged (ie people who were with me whilst rushing the beam then climbed out of the Normandy!?!) Whilst it appears that the devs were trying to avoid a "Disney ending" (and kudos to them for it, I for one think they deserve credit for avoiding a clichéed medals/party scene alá ANH/ROTJ), I don't think this needs mean that, given the possibility that Shepard survives (which s/he appears to do in at least one of the current endings) , the people s/he cares about should be stranded far away from her/him, without the possibility of ever seeing each other again. The wish to avoid a "Disney ending" does break down right at the very end; I thought the Stargazer scene was Disney 101, and was not particularly congruous with the epic story that had preceeded it . It is also advisable to remove the DLC advert after the credit roll, it feels very cheap.
• I would probably add the cut Shepard-Anderson dialog from the Citadel. Jennifer Hale and Keith David did a spectacular job there! (I can also picture an ending with blue babies that is not over-the-top disney, but that might just be wishful thinking on my part )
• Finally, and this is the part that I found hardest to formulate, and is of the least importance to me at the moment; The ending level, London, did not feel quite as epic as it probably should of. The suicide mission at the end of ME2 had a distinctly different setup to the rest of the missions in ME2 and is one of the more memorable parts of the game. The ending mission in ME3, with exception of the goodbyes from your squad (which were amazingly well-written and quite emotional), is mostly indistinguishable from fairly standard urban levels in other games, and lacked the pure "epicness"  (in purely gaming terms) of the end level of ME2, and is largely quite forgettable. This by itself isn't that big an issue, but together with the unsatisfying conclusion of the story and bugs regarding the Normandy gave the impression (deserved or not) that the entire ending had been a bit rushed.

So yeah...that was a bit longer than planned, and the majority has probably been said before. I'm generally part of the silent 90%, but I found so much of this series to be so good, and the ending to be such a let down! ME3 was a brilliant game up to the last 10mins, and I don't think it requires that much work to turn the current ending into one that actually makes sense. The indoc theory would be a mindblowing ending, but at the moment, I don't really believe it! ...I'd be interested in thoughts regarding my interpretation of the current ending. Have I missed something that makes it completely nonsensical?