23455 réponses à ce sujet

[MordimerMort]

The good:
Man, I loved most of the moments in ME3. Especially Thane, Mordin and Legion. Thane could use some more dialogue for example his flashback memory state describing the suicide mission. His clash with Kai Leng was superb.
The gameplay was in my opinion better than ME2, fast paced action packed, the way we like it. Run button could be different than cover and heal fallen squad mate (this got frustrating in MP when you try to heal someone and you take cover instead). MP gameplay was good, first few days I played for 6-10h straight, it could use some more diversity like extracting civilians to save zone through enemy territory (one of the N7 missions was like that, but in MP it could be on larger scale - map more like the last area on Earth form Alliance base to Missile Launchers).

The bad:
I had some technical issues with visuals. Squad mates and NPC not showing in during dialogues, squad mates AI a bit unresponsive sometimes. As a AAA game in 2012 it could use some higher resolution textures, at least outfits to match superb quality faces (I know, the consoles probably couldn't handle them), but an update for PC users, like Crysis 2 had, after few months would be much appreciated. A bug in "From Ash" DLC took me 3 CTD too look for a solution on BSN. And one last thing, FOV, too small for my taste - an option to change it in game would be great.

The ugly:
Yes, the ending to a five year journey. An ending to the Shepard chapter of Mass Effect Universe. In my opinion in wasn't in the same tone, atmosphere, mood as the rest of the game (and games). The showdown between Anderson, TIM and Shepard was good, I can't imagine fighting TIM, he just don't strike me as someone who fights alone (apart form the comicbook during First Contact War). I admit seeing Shepard losing faith and conviction was good strorywise - to picture that he is still just a human, not a demi god - but at this point I expected him to muster every last bit of strength he has left and see everything through, oppose the Reapers one last time.
After the announcement video of the War Assets I imagined those assets would be shown in game - not just the main races (asari, turian, krogan, salarian, quarian, geth), but also rachni, volus, elcor, hanar, vorcha - in some pre-rendered cut scenes depending on what you collected.
I thought the ending would depend on previous choices (Paragon, Renegade), my War Assets and Galactic Readies - something similar to ME2 suicide mission. A multi branching ending conclusion (there was something similar made and posted here). Instead I got to chose A B C no matter how I played, after watching one ending I can simply replay last mission and chose another one, thus kinda killing replayability of the game.
And the Citadel AI, last minute "mastermind". If it was Harbinger instead, it would be better, but not with those dialogues. Harbinger would want to stop Shepard not give him choices. There could be some kind of virtual battle like in Overlord but with geth consensus themed environmental. Winning the battle with him would disrupt reaper manoeuvres, giving fleet opportunity to attack. And activating the Crucible would send some kind of sub-space signal to deactivate Reaper shields and communication modules, again giving fleet chance to do heavy damage (and ensuring some future DLC for hunting remaining Reapers in the galaxy) and a chance of winning back Earth.
The indoctrination theory is also a good one. After so many encounter with Reaper technology, Shepard could be more susceptible to indoctrination process - dreams and the part after being hit by Harbinger beam - and only if you stick to your previous choices - Paragon or Renegade - you could fight it of and wake up in the rubble near the Citadel beam. Then as written above a fight with Harbinger.
About the lack of happy ending. There could be one, not some over the top unicorn riding on rainbow, but one (and only one) where Shepard lives, fights another day (DLC) and lives with chosen LI on Earth, Tessia, Rannoch, Palven or other place. That one ending achievable only with every story obtainable Asset and 100% Readies, sticking the whole game (or trilogy) as a Paragon/Renegade not cheating on LI from the beginning. In rest of the endings Shepard would die as a hero (a scene where a multi-alien task force would find him laying dead form last Harbinger mortal strike [in "happy" ending Harbinger body would get blown by the fleet forces, giving Shepard few seconds to finish him of] next to remnants of Harbinger VI construct and Crucible activation console. In the non-happy endings there would be a Statue of Shepard on every world - beginning of "The Shepard" legend. Some scenes of inhabitants rebuilding cites ect. ect. Also based on the choices like Wrex and Eve living the Krogan wouldn't start another war right away, same with Quarians and Geth.
But instead we have a last minute omni-knowing AI which gives us our "salvation" on a silver platter.
Aaaa....there's the Normandy escape crash landing. There shouldn't be one or at least be one, but in the worst case scenario total defeat ending - Earth battle lost ect. ect. - where they crash land on some planet but have to live in hiding because they see a Reaper landing.
One more suggestion, all battle related materials - preferably pre-rendered, ending materials - in art form (I've got CE and saw the art book, so I know what you are capable of).

Well that's it. I hope there will be some kind of alteration to the present ending, because in my opinion it looks a bit like ending SW trilogy with last minutes of Kubrick's Space Odyssey 2001 mixed with Deus Ex.

[Andy the Black]

Ray Muzyka said: "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April."

Interesting. And, like I said a few pages back, looks like we wont hear anything concrete till PAX in April.

[TheRevanchist]

I can't speak for everyone, but I feel we want to know why we were clearly lied to in the pre- release marketing campaign. We were given exactly what your company said they would not give us. The exact opposite of what we were promised. You (as in Bioware) said very clearly...we will not have an A,B,C type ending...as that would be unfitting to the series....yet...



Seriously...what happened here? Where are the "16 wildly different endings that depend on your choices thoughout the series" that we were promised? What happend to our choices meaning something? Why...in the end...does the entire ending to over 100 hours of gameplay come down to 3 things that are 95% the same? Despite the fact that our choices could be so vastly different from one player to the next, yet we all have the exact same ending...regardless of how things play out. All of our choices have been reduced to a Math score that determines the remaining 5% for the "variety" in the endings.

Getting "Closure" is only a small part of our concerns, we want more than just closure on the ending we have. We feel this ending as a whole is unfitting and simply does not work. The mere fact the "Star Child" exsists makes ME1 pointless...as Soverigns attempt to take the Citadel is rendered totaly moronic...when this thing can just use "Space Magic" to open it itself. Shepard is totaly out of character with everything they have ever been during this entire franchise. Why on earth would he accept Saren or The Illusive Man's perspectives? Why would he not show the AI why his logic is so OBVIOUSLY wrong? Why does your own companies artbook tell us The Crucible does something so VASTLY different from what it actually does? "it evokes a weapon that resembles the Trinity Bomb mixed with a NASA space probe." Why is there so much inconsistency with what we were promised and told...and what we actually got? Like I said I can't speak for everyone...but Ray telling us "We will clarify this ending" is not really what we are asking for. We don't want it clarified....we are saying it's simply broken...it defys everything that Mass Effect has established for 5 years. You listened to us when we told you how broken ME: Deception was...and you outright told us that you would fix it. Now we are trying to explain why THIS is broken...and instead the answer we get basiclly boils down to "we will explain it to you so you understand."

Shouldn't this have already been in the game? shouldn't the context of why you seem to think this ending is great already be there? I will not say for sure...but it SEEMS we were sold an unfinished product at full price. A product that...for all intents and purposes...contradicts your entire marketing campaign, as well as logcial consistency with the rest of the franchise. The ending...to me at least...is not the quality I have always gotten from Bioware...the first 95% of the game is what I expect from Bioware, which is pure brillience in every possible way...but those last 15 minutes seem like they were writen by someone else with no knowledge of ME lore or writing skill period...again like ME: Deception, which you actually promised to fix, and not just clarify the horribleness so we understand why it's there. There are other reasons I am disapointed with this game of course, not everything within that first 95% is solid gold. Things like the broken Face Importer, Tali's lazy face reveal, lack luster RPG elements, Liara getting the only "mature" romance scene, things like that to name a few. But aside from the Face Importer ( which is totaly crap btw) I can easily dismiss these things...because they do not basiclly spit in the face of 5 years of dramatic build up regarding character development and player choice.

The fans collective knowledge of the Mass Effect universe (the ME Wiki that you have admitted to useing before) is basiclly the embodiement of WHY this ending is broken, which is pre-established facts that says things can't be the way they are presented without basiclly making everything before this game not matter. Again I reconize there ARE people who enjoy this ending, but this is...I feel...the Majority (yes majority) opinion on why this ending is just so terrible. This game was bar none Game of the Year until we reach the ending. The destination is just as importent as the journey to get there.

[jeweledleah]

@ mordimermort - multiplayer mechanic - aka readiness should NOT be a deciding factor in whether the ending is achievable. its already bad enough.

P.S. according to EDI, Shepard's synthetic parts amount to multiple prothetics basically. brain functions are completely organic. moreover, Chakwas scanned Shepard in the beginning, to make sure there was no tissue rejection going on, further confirming the prothtesis, rather then actual blending of organic and tech as far as Shepard is concerned. just something interesting to consider.

[RevanREK]

SkullStrife wrote...
Bioware RESPONDED OFFICIALLY! a letter by Bioware co-founder Dr. Ray Muzyka!
http://www.gameinfor...criticisms.aspx
it seems that in fact there is a DLC comming, even though indoctrination theory was not originally planned, even though I really love it... and I recommend as the user Bill Casey did, watching this new video

I'm glad to see they're listening to their fans. I've read a lot of stuff after finishing the game, being upset with it myself and I bet this has been said already by other people, but I really hope they read this because I know I'm just one more obsessive fan who was upset with the end, and I know criticism of something you’re proud of can be tough, but that’s what fans are for, we are your harshest critics, and that’s only because we want you to succeed, we want you to carry on being amazing, and if we see a mistake, we point it out, not because we want you to feel bad, but because we want you to improve, the games have touched our lives and in different ways we have each made them our own, we want to help.


I don't want to upset the Mass Effect team by being upset with their game, I even feel somewhat guilty by complaining. I think the main problem could've been that the critics loved it so it came as a shock that long term fans didn't. But then, as a standalone game, it would've been amazing, but as the end of a series, long term fans such as myself where not happy because we've fallen in love with our Shepard’s, we have been inspired by the story unfolding in the games, we have cried with our Shepard, laughed with our Shepard, kicked ass with our Shepard’s, and survived every bullet with our Shepard’s, we have been completely captivated by the characters, the beautiful artwork, and inspiring soundtrack, we've played the games over and over, I myself have played them so many times I’ve lost count, but yet strangely enough I always end up doing exactly the same thing, it's like, and I'm sure other people would agree that our own personal Shepard, the ones we spent hours creating, became THE Shepard.Every choice I made, I thought about carefully, my Shepard had her own personality, she survived everything, akuze, Seran, The collector base, and although she had a bad start to life as an orphan on earth she always tried to do everything right, and brought everyone out alive, no matter the odds, and you know what she wanted the most? To retire and adopt a daughter, to give an orphaned child a new life, just like she once longed for when she slept on the streets as a child...

And then all that was taken away in one moment, and that's what upset me the most, it was like, our Shepard’s didn't matter, like I might've just played as John Shepard, not romanced anyone and just middle optioned the whole game. There was no point of me creating my own Shepard and giving her a personality because in the end, it didn't matter, in the end, she wasn't MY Shepard anymore, it didn't matter what the players wanted anymore, it was just what John Shepard would've done, you should just take away all the choices in the game's and the customisation, because in the end, the game designers wanted Shepard to die and sacrifice themselves... and so that's what happened, all the control that we had in the game, was pointless because in the end it didn't matter, the crew members always ended on some tropical planet, Shepard always dies, earth is always saved, and if you had told us fans that it was always going to be a tragic ending that left me crying tears of disappointment and sadness, then I never would’ve bothered playing the games. The bit I loved the most was the customisation, it was always about that freedom of choice for me, that was the main selling point and the main reason why I loved it. I played the games always fighting to survive, always fighting for the happy ending, always fighting to save every crew member, finish every subplot, I played the games hoping that I was doing the right thing, hoping Shepard and her crew would survive, I avoided every spoiler, I played the game throughout the dark hours of the night, my excitement was immense, which in turn, made the disappointment even more soul destroying...

I don't want to be rude, or moan, I just want the people at Bw to know, the ME games was amazing artistically, immensely beautiful with some of the best designed characters, well written and highly developed personality’s, they were truly some of the best games I've played, the standard you set in the first two games where so high, so amazing, that the expectations were high, and most of ME3 lived up to it, apart from the most important part, the most dramatic part, the bit we were all waiting for, the bit we played for, the ultimate build up in a game, this was where I was going to be jumping up and down on the sofa shouting about how this was the best ending ever, the fanart would be literally dripping from my fingers for months to come, drawings of the ultimate hero and her crew, each completely different, but together an unstoppable force, the ultimate survival, inspiring, beautiful, amazing, jaw dropping... the real feel good boost for weeks to come...
and it just wasn't there.


I've always admired the mass effect team, we all have, and we were all willing you to succeed, as much as we were willing Shepard to succeed, we wanted the game to be awesome... 
And that's why I was so disappointed.  

Modifié par RevanREK, 21 mars 2012 - 11:55 .

[Riddledim]

Cross429 wrote...

Wow. Just finished. Which results in my very first post.

Let me first say: I don't make a habit of criticizing art and - Roger Ebert's cask-aged scruples aside - the Mass Effect series is nothing less than a work of art.

I love this series. Because, in playing, you become a part of it: there are moments in these games where you are Shepard. 

That said, if these really are the endings Bioware had planned for arguably the greatest gaming series of all time: the first real virtual epic driven by each player's free will having ended in a casual denial of freedom and summary dismissal of will, then the Mass Effect series has not only betrayed the fan base but - more imporantly - betrayed itself. Perhaps this sounds melodramatic, but the signficance of art lies in its effect on the person interacting with it. Braveheart would hardly resonate as it does if it ended with a last minute air raid by B-22's. War Horse steps on a land mine: whoopsie, turns out none of this journey mattered at all. Roll credits, and maybe an old man can stand in front of a tree and tell the audience that the exploded horse was "legendary" because the land mine he chose was identically explosive to the other two land mines he could have opted for to become glue.

But:

I don't think that Bioware planned these endings. I've spent too much time immersed in their writing to believe it. Either these resulted from a simple misplaced brushstroke - stemming from "leaks" or a rushed Go to Gold timetable or whatever the rumors are - or these "endings" were never intended to be "endings" at all.

Continuing the thread in spoiler territory: there are too many well placed clues as to Shepard's Indoctrination: throughout the series, throughout the game, and throughout the all-too-brief "ending." I suspected from the beginning with Ashley's and Chakwas's mentions of "Cerberus Control,"  the early discussion of Indoctrination in the Codex, the dreams with "oily shadows."

If this is where Bioware intended to go, we are breaking new ground in terms of the art form. Think about it: we've all been Indoctrinated! At the pinnacle of the series, we've truly shared space with Shepard: knowing we had player free will based on a series which allowed for it, only to find that very will manipulated towards the enemy's desired outcomes. Certainly, the "perfect" ending with him awakening in rubble, resulting from the least Indoctrinated choice, represents one big ball of evidence. 

So: assuming Bioware has hit its peak vice it's rock bottom, we need a conclusion that flows from the player's decisions. We've been Indoctrinated: what happens next?  

This seems almost dangerous to state.

The indoctrination theory leaves us with less than the current ending. It leaves a plot hole so huge it consumes the rest of them.
They stated this was the end of the series. The DLC will only build the legend that is Shepard. But they said that this is the end.

So if this is the end, how does the indoctrination theory make sense, how does it justify?

[Dot.Shadow]

Thank you Bioware, for giving us a properly reply and telling us that you are addressing the issue.

[kimuji]

Riddledim wrote...

This seems almost dangerous to state.

The indoctrination theory leaves us with less than the current ending. It leaves a plot hole so huge it consumes the rest of them.
They stated this was the end of the series. The DLC will only build the legend that is Shepard. But they said that this is the end.

So if this is the end, how does the indoctrination theory make sense, how does it justify?

The indoctrination allows to recon all that don't make sense after Harbinger's beam, especially all the child's speech. It opens the path allowing to fix it. If you want further explanations read my post on the previous page.

Modifié par kimuji, 22 mars 2012 - 12:05 .

[T-Zero]

I'm going to add my voice to those crying out for a revised ending. I've put other posts up on these boards detailing what exactly needs changing. I'll reiterate it here, just to make sure the points get hammered home: We need closure. Casey's idea of "Lots of Speculation" was an incredibly bad idea and call, and Bioware shouldn't feel the need to defend it. Own up to the mistake and fix it. We need to see more pay off from all the choices we've made and all the time we've invested into this game. Not a simple "ABC, red, blue, green" option for an ending that in *no way* finishes the game.

As for all the great reviews you've all been getting: I believe it's been said above, but I'll say it again: most professional critics simply pick up a game from their home office an offer a review from what they play. They're not the ones who've been with you all for 7 years, they're not the ones who have invested so much of their time and energy into the story and characters.

This isn't to say you guys didn't make a great game. You did.  You really did.  But it's a great game that is *ruined* by the last fifteen minutes.

For favorite moments I would include the sandstorm on Mars (it was beautifully rendered), Tali getting drunk, Mordin's last song, Legion's sacrifice (although that felt a little deus ex), and Garrus and Shep on the citadel.  ME3 really is a great game... if it weren't for the ending.

Modifié par T-Zero, 22 mars 2012 - 04:11 .

[Edwin Dracones]

I will try to be as "constructive" (or although really I am deconstructing your ending by analyzing and not attempting to build on it exactly) as possible, but most of what I will say has been said before.

                First off, I would be lying if I said I didn't love this game/series, and with the exception of the ending (after the beam hit), it's been my favorite game since Baldur's Gate 2 (hooray for remakes btw). The way the characters were written, the voice acting, and the effects of all your choices (how random they were) were shown during the game, like how you could not achieve peace with the Geth/Quarians without making the right choices in me2, Mordin being able to cure the genophage/Eve living, or many other fantastic moments in me3. Stuff like this made the game for me, combined with game play I enjoyed (although I felt insane difficulty was a tad too easy) and closure on many of the plot points in the past.

                However, what was completely disheartening, was the ending. Everything was building up to this point, all your choices, all your peacemaking, the armies you built, everything was coming down to this. This was what the whole series was about, the drive to save the galaxy, the drive to defeat the reapers, but then... Star Child happened.

                Now for the record, I was all for Sheppard dying, in a heroic way of course, knowing that his sacrifice would be for the better of everyone. Sure I would have accepted him living, being the hero of the day, retiring with Tali on Rannoch (which I really did like the way the world looked), and just being a legend of galaxy, but I wasn't expecting it, with all the hints of his death throughout the game (hell Garrus all but said you were going to die with his ending bromance lines, or Tali wanting more time). So bittersweet endings and all that are fine and dandy, but the thing is, it wasn't bittersweet, it was ****ing confusing.

                I get the fact that the reapers may be here to "save" us from ourselves, although killing us as a means to save us is somewhat... flawed in its own way, but I guess they saw past that because in their eyes we weren't being killed, only preserved by being turned into a reaper. So if they were trying to save us... why not tell us from the start? Say hey guys, we're going to save you all by melting you and turning you into us so you can live FOREVER.

                Then, and this is the part that really, really gets me, is that their duty is to protect us from synthetic life, but being part synthetic themselves (in fact I think that ghost child is a complete AI), wouldn't they also have to stop themselves? Are they not proving their own point about synthetics ending all life by well, ending all life? Sure they save life forms who haven't evolved yet (Yet being the keyword here), but will someday kill them just like everyone else. You know, they kind of remind me of the Borg from star trek.

                To bounce off the last point, if they were so anti synthetic, why work with the Geth at all? I mean in me1, Saren and the Reapers changed the Geth (a part of them) to help start the cycle. A means to an end maybe? Perhaps, but why not use the Collectors, or create a indoctrinated army to help? Possibly the ending of the series and the drive of the reapers weren't thought of yet, it happens, one could forgive an oversight (although not slight) from a 5 year old game, but what about in me3? Not only did the reapers use the Geth YET AGAIN to help rid the universe of organics, they upgraded them with a code to think as individuals, resulting really with the reapers giving Geth minds of their own (granted they were also enslaved, but notice enslaved and not destroyed/harvested). If it was the reapers intent to prevent the end of the galaxy by synthetics, why the hell agree to help the Geth at all and not just let the Quarians defeat them? Why create more work for themselves when they could have just let the "evil" synthetics die? It just doesn't make sense.

                Speaking of doesn't make sense, back the star child, or "Catalyst". I can get behind the idea of this "reaper program" getting in your head and creating an image that only just recently became an image of loss and guilt (I really think the Vermire Victim would have been way better of a choice, mourning him or her over 3 games), so that he can relate to you and try to help you understand your choices, but what I don't understand, is why Sheppard has to make the choices at all? Why does the catalyst need him to choose? He is an all omnipotent controller of the most powerful creatures every created (which really if you think about it, regardless of the material used, any created life is synthetic in nature, thus reapers are synthetic), who knows he has options, knows if he wanted to, could do any of the 3 on his own, but given that this is a choice driven game, allows Sheppard to pick his favorite color, I mean, fate.

Control ending:
                Basically, you upload yourself into the catalyst, becoming it, and telling the reapers to fly away. Ok, I can get that, but what I don't understand about it, is why you need to shoot a beam at a mass relay to do that? I mean, if you are just uploading yourself into the catalyst or citadel, which already controls the reapers, why do you have to blow up anything to do so? That just makes no sense. Maybe they had to upload the new code to the reapers? Possible, but just seems flawed.

Synthesis ending:
                Ha...buwhaha...ha.............ha. Green eyes and veins aside, if this was an option, does that mean by merging all synthetic life with organic, you have added biological parts to the Geth, or even EDI? Or did you just make cyborgs out of every organic? Better yet, would that mean all children would be born with machines in them? Hell even reapers had to "procreate" by having life sucked out of organics onto husks, this just screams SPACE MAGIC and flawed science.

Destruction Ending:
                This is the one I generally picked as my ending, because after that conversation with the star child I was just so insulted by the idea of letting the reapers live with that confused logic stuck in their heads, I mean really, I was being merciful by ending them. Sure the Geth and EDI would die (or would they? I mean Sheppard was told even he was "part synthetic" and still lives) but that's a small, small price to pay to save everyone else, cold calculus but hey, the geth and edi could be rebuilt, you can't REMAKE organics (since with the synthetic ending all DNA has robots in it, where the hell are you going to find unaltered organic DNA to clone?). Also, Sheppard being alive... after falling from orbit, from an exploding space station, from being beside (literally) the starting explosion, to be alive, on earth, mostly intact and not covered by ruble...I...don't.....know what to say... THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

All Endings:
                Mass Relays blowing up from your color (or signal, sorry) being sent across the universe, could at least make sense, since perhaps the power overwhelmed them, it sucks, but I can understand it. Also as learned in the arrival dlc, exploding mass relays take out the solar system they are currently in... that adds a whole other level of "what the hell did I just do?". Luckily some people have argued that it was a controlled explosion, or whatever, flawed logic but not quite space magic level. Then there is all the armies you built being stuck in the Sol system... overpopulation any one? Alright, for the sake of argument, let's say that the FTL drives were "fast" enough to get each race home at some point in time, and they MAGICALY have enough food to sustain the trip, that still cuts out all galactic relations, ends trading, forces said races to be stuck on planets only close to their systems, which they better hope can sustain their growing civilizations, ect ect, and all and all a really crappy way to end a series. Bittersweet? More like just Bitter.

                Then, there is the whole Normandy thing, which really has a lot of the same flaws as stated above (poor Tali and Garrus), not to mention the whole lack of reasoning for Joker to be leaving the battle, or how magically my love interest was on earth with me got off the Normandy in the end (I guess better then saying hey, she died in the laser beam, although that would at least make sense), it just screams "YOU GET NO COLSURE". I honestly thought this part was a joke, I mean the reapers flawed logic is one thing, but that? Damn, couldn't you just kill them off or something in the battle? Did you really have to make people start asking questions? Although this sort of leads into my theory part...

Ending Theories and possible redeeming aspects:

                Alright, obvious part first out of the way, this is not the last we hear of them, as stated by the old man, and by a blog post made earlier, the mass effect universe is not said and done. That being said, the ending given to us... well doesn't support that if you think about it, the mass effect relays themselves being blown up (although another game where you help remake them would be neat) and without those, the galaxy became a whole lot smaller. I truly believe that bioware had to know that ending the game with so many questions would have caused a massive fan reaction, perhaps not the negative one they received (although really with flawed logic and space magic, how anyone could get the ending is beyond me), generating massive interest in future titles, dlcs, ect ect, free marketing and so on. The thing is, by trying to do this, bioware created plot holes big enough to fit entire games worth of content at the cost of a sensible ending. There is however a theory that many people have started to believe in (myself included, although I truly don't think bioware intended it to be this way). indoctrination, which so far honestly, has been the best explanation for anything past hitting the god damn beam. There are many posts about it so I won't go into too much details, but reading the theory and using it to try to make sense of the ending has been the only thing that's worked for me, here's hoping it's true, if not, well, my faith has been drastically shattered.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

[hydaway1]

 Just learned about the indoctronation theory and it all makes sense! I hope that this is what you plan  to do to continue the story! I'm excited! 

[Grusome11]

improperdancing wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

There are really only two options.

Either this is the real ending and Casey Hudson and his team will go down in video game history as the guys who wrote/produced 2.98 awsome games but blew it in the last 15 minutes with an ending that would fail in a high school lit class, or

Indoc theory is correct and Casey Hudson and his team are the best, most ballsy writers/producers ever to make a video game and we are not worthy to lick their shoes.

I am almost as interested to see how the above story ends as to see how the Mass Effect story ends.

See, I totally disagree with the whole indoctrination theory making BioWare brilliant.  All that means is that they actually shipped Mass Effect 3 without an ending at all with the intention of selling it to us later, and in my mind that's a far more heinous crime than just being bad writers.

Ya, shipping an unfinished  game is a big question mark. Indoc theory can't explain that.  Sneaky marketting ploy?

[HellishFiend]

I personally would be happy if there were a DLC that went along with the popular theory that the entire ending sequence (after getting hit with Harbinger's beam) was a dream, and that Shepard wakes up from it in the rubble on earth to play out the true ending. In fact, it really seems to me like it was planned that way in advance.

[darthclide]

in light of the blog, please take a look at the following poll
http://social.biowar...5&poll_id=30216

[daniel_vc]

I've been keeping a close eye on this whole situation. Bioware/EA, I'm very satisfied with your willingness to listen to our feedback. However, I don't feel it correct to say that this "retake mass effect 3 movement" has been destructive in anyway. Considering the THOUSANDS of fans that have been rather civil about our displeasure; I feel it unfair to talk about the destructive criticism of a few. In fact, there is more uncivil and degrading criticism coming from those opposing the movement. I can even point to high profile companies like IGN (http://www.ign.com/v...3-opinion-video) who have created media to belittle our voice. This view is particularly upsetting because the negativity does not seem to be coming from "a displeasure" in the ending, but rather, from a sentiment of false advertising and unethical business practice on your part.

Bioware/EA, you DO have the complete liberty to create whatever ending you like; make it as bleak, or as happy, as you see fit! However, you ARE obligated to provide a VARIETY of endings because that is what you advertised and SOLD to us. This is where we find our point of contention with you.

I respect and completely admire your work. In fact, I can concede that some of it is revolutionary. However, most of it's revolutionary elements pertain to the series as a whole rather than ME3 as a product. In fact, elements in ME3, like customization and multiplayer, are simply facets that most gaming companies are prioritizing as basic gaming "staples," NOT new elements.On the other hand, the element of "choice and consequence" is what makes the Mass Effect series, as a whole, "revolutionary".

Bioware/EA, Mass Effect 1 WAS revolutionary, but you can't say the same for ME3 unless it achieved the promise of providing a VARIETY of endings like you advertised. This discourse on artistic liberty is distracting the media away from our real point of contention, which is in respect to your business practice--not your artistic licence!

In short, rest assured that the brilliant minds and artisans that provided us with the Mass Effect universe are highly respected by the community. It is your business practice and failure to carry out your obligation to provide accurate and truthful advertising that is our point of contention. We simply want an apology in respect to your purposeful and conscious decision to provide us with false advertising.

Thank you for listening. I'm looking forward to listening to your own sentiments. I hope we do not get easily detracted from the real point of contention. Lets keep it civil.

[StillOverrated]

daniel_vc wrote...

I've been keeping a close eye on this whole situation. Bioware/EA, I'm very satisfied with your willingness to listen to our feedback. However, I don't feel it correct to say that this "retake mass effect 3 movement" has been destructive in anyway. Considering the THOUSANDS of fans that have been rather civil about our displeasure; I feel it unfair to talk about the destructive criticism of a few. In fact, there is more uncivil and degrading criticism coming from those opposing the movement. I can even point to high profile companies like IGN (http://www.ign.com/v...3-opinion-video) who have created media to belittle our voice. This view is particularly upsetting because the negativity does not seem to be coming from "a displeasure" in the ending, but rather, from a sentiment of false advertising and unethical business practice on your part.

Bioware/EA, you DO have the complete liberty to create whatever ending you like; make it as bleak, or as happy, as you see fit! However, you ARE obligated to provide a VARIETY of endings because that is what you advertised and SOLD to us. This is where we find our point of contention with you.

I respect and completely admire your work. In fact, I can concede that some of it is revolutionary. However, most of it's revolutionary elements pertain to the series as a whole rather than ME3 as a product. In fact, elements in ME3, like customization and multiplayer, are simply facets that most gaming companies are prioritizing as basic gaming "staples," NOT new elements.On the other hand, the element of "choice and consequence" is what makes the Mass Effect series, as a whole, "revolutionary".

Bioware/EA, Mass Effect 1 WAS revolutionary, but you can't say the same for ME3 unless it achieved the promise of providing a VARIETY of endings like you advertised. This discourse on artistic liberty is distracting the media away from our real point of contention, which is in respect to your business practice--not your artistic licence!

In short, rest assured that the brilliant minds and artisans that provided us with the Mass Effect universe are highly respected by the community. It is your business practice and failure to carry out your obligation to provide accurate and truthful advertising that is our point of contention. We simply want an apology in respect to your purposeful and conscious decision to provide us with false advertising.

Thank you for listening. I'm looking forward to listening to your own sentiments. I hope we do not get easily detracted from the real point of contention. Lets keep it civil.

+1

[Doom972]

I finished the game a few hours ago, after managing to avoid spoilers for the last week.
Ever since Chronos station I suspected Cerberus might have used reaper tech in project Lazarus. While this theory doesn't seem to hold, It got me to think about the possibility of indoctrination. I saw some videos and articles that claim that the entire ending sequence is a hallucination caused by indoctrination. It seems to be probable since in the end I saw Shepard wake up in the ruins of Earth (I chose the destruction ending).
I hope Bioware has a surprise up its sleeve - and I don't mean selling us the ending as DLC. I'm a loyal fan and I don't like getting scammed. They promised us closure to the entire trilogy and I expect them to hold their promise.

[KingBarbarossa]

 I know you guys are getting buried under piles of posts complaining about your endings (I don't see enough people talking about this in plural, which is a huge red flag to me). I just want to make sure you have at least one that tells you what an absolutely wonderful job you did on the endings.

I really loved how each ending irrevocably changed the course of the mass effect universe in ways that can't really be measured. You forced me to drastically alter the status quo of not just humanity's, but every race's civilization. And it all happened because of the choices I made. I chose the "white/neutral" ending. And in doing so, I ushered in the dawn of a new age for all life. Not only did I bind together the sometimes selfish race of the galaxy with a common thread (we're all half breeds now), but I gave us common goal to accomplish (restablish contact, figure out a new way to travel). There were several times during the game when I was nearly in tears from sadness and guilt over what I had done. I sacrificed friends I loved for the sake of the greater good. Who gave me that right? Would it even be worth it in the end? Even with all I had done, would things just end up the way they were before, but with untold billions dead? And in the end, I accomplished something I'd never even dreamed of. I'd paved the way for possibilities I can't even imagine. And yet, all I have won is bitter sweet because of the losses I'd suffered along the way, the friends who didn't live to see it.

Bravo and brava Team Montreal. You have personally changed my life for the better. I will go to my grave with the wonderful memories I made playing your games. I can only snicker at the fools who can't see the value in your craft, who claim that video games can't be art. I don't know how else I could describe what you've created.

My request is simple. Whatever you do, keep the three endings intact. They all have great value. If the internet so terribly needs to maintain the status quo, if they must "make everything ok" , or if they're just plain too lazy to earn a better ending through playing your fantastic multiplayer (which is stunning as well by the way), just add a fourth ending. I know it will be nearly impossible to reconcile something that basically keeps the universe the same with the amazing ending I got, but if anyone can do it you can. You've proved you're in a class by yourself. Don't let people tell you you're not. And lastly, they wouldn't care this much if you hadn't done such an amazingly fantastic job with this series. Thank you again, and I can't wait to play the DLC.

Love,

A fellow developer

P.S. - It wouldn't kill you to let us play with one or two of the characters from ME2 again.

[auridus]

I think the Indoc theory fits quite well, regardless if it was intentional or not. (Though I think it was.) The codex entry on indoc says that there may be hallucinations of ghostly presences, which the child was a ghostly presence. When Shep sees the child on Earth, it seems like he is the only one who does. No one helps the child on to the shuttle and Anderson doesn't see him in the vent. There was also a purpose to put in the scene at the end of Shep gasping for air, alive and on Earth, under the rubble. There would be no way for him to be there if he died on the citadel destroying the reapers. Beyond the credits, the stargazer said he had 1 more story to tell of Shep. Also, from ME2, destroying a Mass Relay is supposed to be equal to a supernova, destroying that star system. So In all 3 endings pretty much everyone should have been wiped out, due to all the relays being destroyed. So, I enjoyed  the ending for what it was...just a big TO BE CONTINUED... sign. Great game IMO and I for one wont complain about getting more content later, just hopefully its not to expensive.

From a business standpoint, which Bioware is, a business, its good for them, they are able to make new content following this ending. From a consumer standpoint, I'd rather have had the real ending to the game. Who knows? Maybe they will do a full on expansion of the game focused on taking back each planet or star system, starting with Earth, but hopefully we will get endings true to the ME series, that takes into account our choices made throughout the series and get closure on what happens to all the companions/story critical characters we've come across in all 3 games.

Modifié par auridus, 22 mars 2012 - 12:32 .

[marshkoala]

Bioware,
Thank you so much for all the work, time and effort into creating the ME universe.

Having played ME 1 & 2 for years before the release of ME3.

I loved ME 3 up to saying goodbye to all my crew at the FOB.

After that I would have enjoyed seeing more of my team and/or the allied forces I brought into battle.

I did not want to play the Multi-player aspect of the game as ME 1& 2 were a single player game and I felt punished for that decision.

After I reached the beam to the Citadel, the literal feel of the game became very unMass Effect. By that I mean, movement, vision. conversations and video scenes. Like being in a dream state.

The IM scene felt on reflection a repeat of the fight with Saren with my talking him into killing himself.

The walk through with the Star Child and my lack of conversation with said entity was extremely limited. For example.........being a Paragon my Commander Fem/Shepard would have said No Way and made an effort to destroy said Star Child and then the Reapers.

Now Please note that the above views are regarding Bioware's choice of an ending.

I Believe that the ending made no sense and didn't tie into the Mass Effect universe.
According to the 3 endings I would have destroyed all life eventually as we know it with the Mass Effect relays destroyed.

That being said I personally expected to run through the battlefield, put together the Crucible and blown the Reapers away.
I'm not a game designer so I can't create anymore than that.

I hope this helps!

Sincerely yours,
A Devoted Fan
marshkoala

[The_Jhereg]

Just finished the game over the weekend and it was great with the sole problem of the $@&/!?&$$$@ all in one "spacebar" binding idiocy that was more dangerous to me than all the Reapers combined.
Then I got to the end....what happened, suddenly it does not matter that I am full up Paragon with over 7300 in War Assets etc. No real choice, my Shep would never so meekly accept that he would mass murder everyone...he would at that point go "Angry Marine" Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu............ooooooooouuuuuuuu Starchild! With a mighty middle digit extended, and tell him pound sand we'll take our chances in regular combat.
Where were my Geth Allies by the way during the battle?
The endings, I have since tried all .....3....... Really ....3.....and they just do not make sense, I am leaning towards just pretending the posited "Indoctrination" theories are going to be my interpretation too.
One last thing, I have played since ME 1 till now with all DLC and why can I still not import my Shep yet, that should never have made it past QA.

Still all in all my favorite series yet, especially since the hugely disappointing Dragon Age 2 quelled my fervor for that my previous favorite.

Please fix these issues.

Thanks,

Don 

Modifié par The_Jhereg, 22 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[Bloodhound66]

kimuji wrote...

Riddledim wrote...

This seems almost dangerous to state.

The indoctrination theory leaves us with less than the current ending. It leaves a plot hole so huge it consumes the rest of them.
They stated this was the end of the series. The DLC will only build the legend that is Shepard. But they said that this is the end.

So if this is the end, how does the indoctrination theory make sense, how does it justify?

The indoctrination allows to recon all that don't make sense after Harbinger's beam, especially all the child's speech. It opens the path allowing to fix it. If you want further explanations read my post on the previous page.

Still, the indoctrination theory is so far-fetched and requires so much of "The Number 23" mentality to piece all of it together that it still seems a slap in the face as an ending. I would have never picked up on all of that had I not recently watched the youtube video explaining the indoc. theory, and that leaves me feeling like I'm too stupid to figure out the ending by myself. It sucks when you get a conspiracy theory instead of answers, and your thinking this is going to be the mother of all finales.

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

The Indoc theory is flawed on two parts. One what would have happened (if Harbingers beam did Indoc Shep) is that Shepard would be utterly usless to them as Rapid Indoc destroys the subject in a matter of days, and the Reapers seemed bound and determined to use Shepard as a long term tool not a one shot wonder. Second Shepard was already part Synthetic so the artifical part of his mind would rebel against the Indoc procedure. That's just my thoughts on the matter.

[Riddledim]

Wow, after watching this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck

Shepards Indoctrination, I take my hat off and bow.
It is perhaps the most intelligent take on the ending so far.

But it also amounts into the death of the galaxy, not its salvation.

With the relays down, everyone is stranded in a hostile enviornment with a serious lack of resources and will eventually die out.

[BlazeShepard]

I came on this thread, but it seems all of my thoughts on the entire matter have already been voiced - quite eloquently in many cases - by others.

All I can say to Bioware is that I appreciate your willingness to listen to your fans' grievances and make amends.