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I just watched this video and it makes a lot of sense. If this is all true of the ending in ME3 I think it's really cool and I look forward to DLC that ties up all the loose ends.
What say you Bioware?
On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 15 2012 02:55
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#9002
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:05
zzcoreyzz
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- Members
- 89 messages
cannabeastie wrote...
Waldschatten wrote...
Same here. I've played a lot of games over the years, but Mass Effect was the first series I've ever caught myself talking about characters as if they were real.
ME3 is one of only two games I've purchased at release since 2007, the series was just so well done that I wasn't about to wait around until it hit the pawn shop shelves for $10 to play the finale.
After finishing that though I'm not only turned off of playing Mass Effect, but the DLC I was working through on DA:O, MP on KillZone 3, Burnout with my kid, and Even Skyrim are sitting there collecting dust because I just can't bring myself to turn on my PS3 again.
I feel the same way, I haven't touched a video game since I finished ME3, it's like someone died or something... no pun intended.
Yeah I immediatly tried to do another ME3 run with a Tali romance, didnt last more than an hour -- tried to play one of my favorite games of all time ME1, which I mustve beaten 20 times, couldnt stand the sight of it.
Bioware was the only company I thought had a shot at Blizzards throne, but with DA2, Swtor and now ME3... yeah... not going to happen. Guess its time to really think about a purchase before buying it if its made by Bioware.
#9003
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:06
Andy the Black
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- Members
- 1 215 messages
AwefulShot wrote...
GIEV DIZ PEEPHOLE AEYR wrote...
well, i guess they were listening cuz the news now is they are officially adding "new ending content". what that content is remains to be seen. i doubt they'll go in and change what is already there but more likely they'll expand or provide content explaining the ending and so forth. still kinda hoping its the indoctrination thing. im open to anything other than what i got. i have faith that they can sort this out. i hope they do.
hacket out.
I am all over this. Strange to have looked forward so much for ME3, now having to wait again for ME3a... Still if this comes about I'll be pleased. If Bioware honesty just missed the mark (hey it happens), but can bring the ME team(s) together again to sort stuf out great!
I just hope it isn't a rushed sort of "here's your stupid fluffy disney ending - now will you jerks stop complaining and buy our NEXT game as ME was so last decade"
I hear that. I know it must suck hard to have your art criticized so heavily, and in some cases unnecessarily rudely, but I hope that 'Team Mass' realize it's out of love for the series that people want a better ending, and don't just rush out some half assed DLC to shut people up. If their going to do this I hope they take their time and put in as much love as they have the rest of the series. I thank you.
Edit: Also, one would appreciate it you made Wrex a possible squad mate, even for a little bit. You know, for old times.
Modifié par Andy the Black, 22 mars 2012 - 03:20 .
#9004
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:09
JohnnyGER
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- Members
- 2 messages
Hey everyone.
I finished the game last night and i must say that my feelings are also differing.
First of all, the game is awesome, i really liked it, there was just an extremely annoying bug in Normandy's cockpit on the "ramp" just behind jokers seat. If you walked behind Joker's seat it often happened that i got stuck in nothing and was unable to move.
But the here relevant topic: the ending:
First of all i like having the "middle" option, i think it is a great idea (even if not fully logical and so on) and an interesting vision or alternative for the game's future.
But i am also really annoyed of some major issues, surely often written in here:
[1] I collected enourmous ammount of ships and troops, set up eventually maximal supplys and citadel militia and so on. But when i finished the game i could swear that if i flew in only with the normandy (as an extreme example, i know it is not possible due mainstory reinforcements) that i could also have had nearly the same ending...
In my opinion the reinforcements don't really need to be active while playing, just some cutscenes maybe, where you really could see that all the hours collecting was worth the job. If done really amazingly it could even also effect the ammount of reaper troops attacking you (e.g. while at the rockets to shoot at the reaper, with lowest reinforcements there are double banshees and brutes, with maximum reinforcements half as much each etc.)
Also what the hell was the citadel militia for?! No battle at the citadel, it was just flewn away to sol, all inhabitants just fell dead to the ground? or got smashed due the jump to sol? Even if just by cutscenes, i really wish that we could also see that it was worth aming the citadel people!
[2] Happy End: I Must say, the ends are really ok, just if they would differ a bit more, also just video cutscene work acceptable. BUT: I really would wish there was a fourth way to go, that just reaches the wanted target, destruction of only the reaper (NOT the Geth you just saved and freed), maybe the citadel weapon machenism gets destroyed, but not the whole citadel with all the eventually survivors on board. All gates stay intact and the new hopeful free future is about to begin, all races side by side or not, whatever may come then...
A DLC there would not necessarily need to deny the original three endings, but just add one or two further alternatives, e.g. perfectly saving the galaxy as i just described maybe, or even a worst case scenario that makes the reaper win in no time and "resets" the galaxy races...
[3] Normandy crash scene: Please explain e.g. by cutscene again why the normandy abandons the earth and shepard, in a best case scenario also please dont make the Normandy crash.
[4] Just one more personal real wish of me: I really wished that it was possible to really actively take all your Squadmates together at the same tiem for the one last mission, not like in the suicide mission in ME2, but really to let them walk around with you, just like with the two regular slots you can fill normally...
So to summarize everything:
Great game, with some leakings at the ending, but maybe fixable by just some more cutscenes that vary more and at least a best option to choose where only the Reapers get "destroyed", not the geth and everything synthetic too...
Hope my feedback helps too....
Greetz
Marc
I finished the game last night and i must say that my feelings are also differing.
First of all, the game is awesome, i really liked it, there was just an extremely annoying bug in Normandy's cockpit on the "ramp" just behind jokers seat. If you walked behind Joker's seat it often happened that i got stuck in nothing and was unable to move.
But the here relevant topic: the ending:
First of all i like having the "middle" option, i think it is a great idea (even if not fully logical and so on) and an interesting vision or alternative for the game's future.
But i am also really annoyed of some major issues, surely often written in here:
[1] I collected enourmous ammount of ships and troops, set up eventually maximal supplys and citadel militia and so on. But when i finished the game i could swear that if i flew in only with the normandy (as an extreme example, i know it is not possible due mainstory reinforcements) that i could also have had nearly the same ending...
In my opinion the reinforcements don't really need to be active while playing, just some cutscenes maybe, where you really could see that all the hours collecting was worth the job. If done really amazingly it could even also effect the ammount of reaper troops attacking you (e.g. while at the rockets to shoot at the reaper, with lowest reinforcements there are double banshees and brutes, with maximum reinforcements half as much each etc.)
Also what the hell was the citadel militia for?! No battle at the citadel, it was just flewn away to sol, all inhabitants just fell dead to the ground? or got smashed due the jump to sol? Even if just by cutscenes, i really wish that we could also see that it was worth aming the citadel people!
[2] Happy End: I Must say, the ends are really ok, just if they would differ a bit more, also just video cutscene work acceptable. BUT: I really would wish there was a fourth way to go, that just reaches the wanted target, destruction of only the reaper (NOT the Geth you just saved and freed), maybe the citadel weapon machenism gets destroyed, but not the whole citadel with all the eventually survivors on board. All gates stay intact and the new hopeful free future is about to begin, all races side by side or not, whatever may come then...
A DLC there would not necessarily need to deny the original three endings, but just add one or two further alternatives, e.g. perfectly saving the galaxy as i just described maybe, or even a worst case scenario that makes the reaper win in no time and "resets" the galaxy races...
[3] Normandy crash scene: Please explain e.g. by cutscene again why the normandy abandons the earth and shepard, in a best case scenario also please dont make the Normandy crash.
[4] Just one more personal real wish of me: I really wished that it was possible to really actively take all your Squadmates together at the same tiem for the one last mission, not like in the suicide mission in ME2, but really to let them walk around with you, just like with the two regular slots you can fill normally...
So to summarize everything:
Great game, with some leakings at the ending, but maybe fixable by just some more cutscenes that vary more and at least a best option to choose where only the Reapers get "destroyed", not the geth and everything synthetic too...
Hope my feedback helps too....
Greetz
Marc
#9005
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:11
DJAwkwardSilence
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- Members
- 12 messages
I just want to say here that I'm incredibly grateful to Bioware that, despite incredibly derisive outbursts both from people who want the ending changed and people defending it, that they were able to parse through all the flaming/hating to really respond to the genuinely felt issues of their audience. Regardless if the upcoming DLC turns out to be what I'd hope from the ending, I think you guys deserve serious respect for taking a risk and trying to fix the end.
#9006
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:12
SirBob1613
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- Members
- 645 messages
A risk fixing the ending? It would have been a bigger risk if they didn't!DJAwkwardSilence wrote...
I just want to say here that I'm incredibly grateful to Bioware that, despite incredibly derisive outbursts both from people who want the ending changed and people defending it, that they were able to parse through all the flaming/hating to really respond to the genuinely felt issues of their audience. Regardless if the upcoming DLC turns out to be what I'd hope from the ending, I think you guys deserve serious respect for taking a risk and trying to fix the end.
Modifié par SirBob1613, 22 mars 2012 - 03:12 .
#9007
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:15
Nuke7786
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- Members
- 3 messages
Before I rant, I have to say thanks to BioWare
for the ME series and for uplifting my expectations for gaming and sci-fi in
general. My former focus on fandom was the ill fated Duke Nukem franchise
and we know how that all went; I am impressed to see a studio was the
capabilities that you have make such an impact. And I'm Canadian as well
and I cannot explain how proud I am by how you represent the country as well.
But I'm on the forums for a reason so here goes
nothing...
So first off, like a few of you, I have not been
on the forum before. Like many of you however, I have been on board with
ME since the beginning. The series started off a little rough around the
edges but the immersion is second to none. And then ME2 came and literally
changed all expectations for what a sequel can be and how cohesive a mythology
can be. And then ME3 came and lived up to the expectations again up until
the ending. I did think the middle of the game was a little slow prior to
getting to the last Citadel session, lacking some of the twists that ME2 had
but you knew the finale would make up for that. "Twist" is an
understatement...
Before I say why I thought initially the ending
was acceptable I am going to point out I never did believe there would be a big
throw down at the end of the game like some expected. I did expect
perhaps an RTS segment at the end that made use of the war assets (here is
where the Rachnii choice would really pay off in spades), but seeing what
happened to Brutal Legend when Tim snuck that in there I can understand why
BioWare (who up until this point had shown signs of experimentation like the
driving sequence in LotSB, the Suicide Mission in its entirety, etc) would opt
out. Clearly the ending of the game would be based on epic choices at the
end because the story has always demanded it is more than a shoot out at the
end.
After getting through TIM and watching Anderson
die I entered the Catalyst finale that a lot of you despise. I'll be
completely honest - I got a bit different message than the rest of you in the
dialog with "start child". In the talk about synthetics vs
organics I understood how the cycle was used to force the evolution of
organics. It made sense to me when he said the "solution" no
longer worked because Shep was there; organics had evolved to the point of
overcoming the traditional cycle and now something had to change. At the
time I was content with the lack of dialog because Shep is almost dead - he has
no fight left in him and the star child doesn't waiver in saying this is how
things are. Then the three choices are presented and I never even paid
attention to the colors. The first play through I do is always Paragon
and I went for synthesis where a) the cycle ends,
minimal casualties and c)
I'm dying for the most I can.
Then the rest of the video plays out and there is
very little closure at all (I completely 100% agree that this was handled unsatisfactorily).
The fact there was no viewing of Liara's project or the funeral the reporter
spoke of was staggering due to the foreshadowing for those features.
Then I read the articles that I had been avoiding
about the mass disappointment in the finale. Things that jumped out were
a) why is Joker there, the finales are all very close to the same and c)
with no mass relays things are pretty much "broken" as far as the
universe and the whole Mass Effect mythology goes.
Then I read of the Shepard living in the one
scenario and the concept of indoctrination. I started to convince myself,
like many, that this was a ruse and BioWare planned it all along (which would
have made them geniuses as a few of you pointed out). In my mind, Shepard
would be waking up in London where he was subject to Harbringer's attack.
Because of the high readiness score and adversity to pick destroy the
reapers (killing the Geth would be the starchild's lie. The star child
would have been the projection in the indoctrination since Shepard had been
dreaming of him, etc.), Shepard would overcome it, wake up and the real finale
would continue, possibly unlocked in a month for free (and on the game disc to
prove BioWare planned it from the start and that people w/o internet wouldn't
be screwed. I for one grew up with dial up and this whole DLC solution
wouldn't have even been possible).
But Bioware just released that it would be making
more content regarding the ending (never saying they were changing it - which
is admission there was no indoctrination. Damn, I was really rooting for that.)
I do believe BioWare did one thing intentionally -
the Joker material. It made no sense that he was where he was; wouldn't
it be convenient that there was DLC that
explained what everyone was doing when Shepard went to the Citadel? I
think that was the plan all along - we are never ever given a concept of time
for how long the end took and the DLC would show how the rest of the squad was
aboard the Normandy and why there were headed somewhere. I have no doubt
in my mind Bioware would have aced this and it would have went towards making
the end credible.
I will add at this point that I understand that
the star gazer at the end is on the planet the Normandy landed on - look at the
planets/moon they look at. They are in the same place as the ones Joker
and the crew saw when they landed. Hence stories of Shepard would be
passed on through the generations as the Normandy were the pioneers of the
planet. I think a lot of people missed this, but I'm sure BioWare will
make it clear/prove me wrong come April.
For those still reading, almost done.
Remember when I said I was OK with the endings? That changed
whenever many of you pointed out the plot failure of syn vs org with the
recruitment of EDI and the Geth. I need not say anymore - this is why
there should have been a discussion with star child that would have made
Sheppard stand up and argue for the galaxy the way he did the entire series.
Which is why I thought you indoctrination HAD to be the reason why the
ending was full of holes (which I believe is now not possible by the BioWare announcement).
And that's where I stop. BioWare I hope your
additional material does not erase what we have for an ending because I don't
think you should have to throw it out. I believe you have the talents to
fill in some gaps, make things clearer and fix this without throwing it out
because that isn't fair to you imo. While I think indoctrination would
have made you guys look brilliant and you could really show your creative
muscle I think that has come and passed. Best of luck and I hope you gain
your fans back and show why ME3 was hyped to beginning with and provide
material that makes ME3 the "complete" game you are capable of.
To those on the forums, please point out if I have
any glaring mistakes. Also I wholeheartedly admit I am not clear on the
star child. The only reason it is that kid is that the VI chose that from
reading Shep's mind or is it more than that?
Thanks for letting me have my say.
for the ME series and for uplifting my expectations for gaming and sci-fi in
general. My former focus on fandom was the ill fated Duke Nukem franchise
and we know how that all went; I am impressed to see a studio was the
capabilities that you have make such an impact. And I'm Canadian as well
and I cannot explain how proud I am by how you represent the country as well.
But I'm on the forums for a reason so here goes
nothing...
So first off, like a few of you, I have not been
on the forum before. Like many of you however, I have been on board with
ME since the beginning. The series started off a little rough around the
edges but the immersion is second to none. And then ME2 came and literally
changed all expectations for what a sequel can be and how cohesive a mythology
can be. And then ME3 came and lived up to the expectations again up until
the ending. I did think the middle of the game was a little slow prior to
getting to the last Citadel session, lacking some of the twists that ME2 had
but you knew the finale would make up for that. "Twist" is an
understatement...
Before I say why I thought initially the ending
was acceptable I am going to point out I never did believe there would be a big
throw down at the end of the game like some expected. I did expect
perhaps an RTS segment at the end that made use of the war assets (here is
where the Rachnii choice would really pay off in spades), but seeing what
happened to Brutal Legend when Tim snuck that in there I can understand why
BioWare (who up until this point had shown signs of experimentation like the
driving sequence in LotSB, the Suicide Mission in its entirety, etc) would opt
out. Clearly the ending of the game would be based on epic choices at the
end because the story has always demanded it is more than a shoot out at the
end.
After getting through TIM and watching Anderson
die I entered the Catalyst finale that a lot of you despise. I'll be
completely honest - I got a bit different message than the rest of you in the
dialog with "start child". In the talk about synthetics vs
organics I understood how the cycle was used to force the evolution of
organics. It made sense to me when he said the "solution" no
longer worked because Shep was there; organics had evolved to the point of
overcoming the traditional cycle and now something had to change. At the
time I was content with the lack of dialog because Shep is almost dead - he has
no fight left in him and the star child doesn't waiver in saying this is how
things are. Then the three choices are presented and I never even paid
attention to the colors. The first play through I do is always Paragon
and I went for synthesis where a) the cycle ends,
minimal casualties and c)I'm dying for the most I can.
Then the rest of the video plays out and there is
very little closure at all (I completely 100% agree that this was handled unsatisfactorily).
The fact there was no viewing of Liara's project or the funeral the reporter
spoke of was staggering due to the foreshadowing for those features.
Then I read the articles that I had been avoiding
about the mass disappointment in the finale. Things that jumped out were
a) why is Joker there,
the finales are all very close to the same and c)with no mass relays things are pretty much "broken" as far as the
universe and the whole Mass Effect mythology goes.
Then I read of the Shepard living in the one
scenario and the concept of indoctrination. I started to convince myself,
like many, that this was a ruse and BioWare planned it all along (which would
have made them geniuses as a few of you pointed out). In my mind, Shepard
would be waking up in London where he was subject to Harbringer's attack.
Because of the high readiness score and adversity to pick destroy the
reapers (killing the Geth would be the starchild's lie. The star child
would have been the projection in the indoctrination since Shepard had been
dreaming of him, etc.), Shepard would overcome it, wake up and the real finale
would continue, possibly unlocked in a month for free (and on the game disc to
prove BioWare planned it from the start and that people w/o internet wouldn't
be screwed. I for one grew up with dial up and this whole DLC solution
wouldn't have even been possible).
But Bioware just released that it would be making
more content regarding the ending (never saying they were changing it - which
is admission there was no indoctrination. Damn, I was really rooting for that.)
I do believe BioWare did one thing intentionally -
the Joker material. It made no sense that he was where he was; wouldn't
it be convenient that there was DLC that
explained what everyone was doing when Shepard went to the Citadel? I
think that was the plan all along - we are never ever given a concept of time
for how long the end took and the DLC would show how the rest of the squad was
aboard the Normandy and why there were headed somewhere. I have no doubt
in my mind Bioware would have aced this and it would have went towards making
the end credible.
I will add at this point that I understand that
the star gazer at the end is on the planet the Normandy landed on - look at the
planets/moon they look at. They are in the same place as the ones Joker
and the crew saw when they landed. Hence stories of Shepard would be
passed on through the generations as the Normandy were the pioneers of the
planet. I think a lot of people missed this, but I'm sure BioWare will
make it clear/prove me wrong come April.
For those still reading, almost done.
Remember when I said I was OK with the endings? That changed
whenever many of you pointed out the plot failure of syn vs org with the
recruitment of EDI and the Geth. I need not say anymore - this is why
there should have been a discussion with star child that would have made
Sheppard stand up and argue for the galaxy the way he did the entire series.
Which is why I thought you indoctrination HAD to be the reason why the
ending was full of holes (which I believe is now not possible by the BioWare announcement).
And that's where I stop. BioWare I hope your
additional material does not erase what we have for an ending because I don't
think you should have to throw it out. I believe you have the talents to
fill in some gaps, make things clearer and fix this without throwing it out
because that isn't fair to you imo. While I think indoctrination would
have made you guys look brilliant and you could really show your creative
muscle I think that has come and passed. Best of luck and I hope you gain
your fans back and show why ME3 was hyped to beginning with and provide
material that makes ME3 the "complete" game you are capable of.
To those on the forums, please point out if I have
any glaring mistakes. Also I wholeheartedly admit I am not clear on the
star child. The only reason it is that kid is that the VI chose that from
reading Shep's mind or is it more than that?
Thanks for letting me have my say.
#9008
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:16
SURENO069
-
- Members
- 4 messages
Like many have said, it's very difficult to choose a favorite moment. The game was excellent! However, I too think that the ending fell flat and I didn't think it made a whole lot of sense. In particular, I have a problem with the fact that two party members I had on Earth during the sprint to the beam suddenly stepped off the Normandy, unscathed, in an unexplained cut scene... Where was Joker even going - wasn't he supposed to be fighting the Reapers? How/when did my party get back on the Normandy? More importantly, what happened to them? I thought the biggest disappointment of all was that we have no idea of what became of the characters we all grew to like over the series. The ending was indeed horrible.
#9009
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:19
Nuke7786
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- Members
- 3 messages
Geez forgot to mention favorite moments. Mordin and Thane's finales, very moving. Legion's was good too but I think the others were more personal. Finding a way for all of the ME2 cast to have cameos was also appreciated - Jack was my romance and while I wish there was more interaction with her, especially in the video message, I laughed a tone at her efforts not to swear in front of her kids.
#9010
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:22
Waldschatten
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- Members
- 53 messages
zzcoreyzz wrote...
Yeah I immediatly tried to do another ME3 run with a Tali romance, didnt last more than an hour -- tried to play one of my favorite games of all time ME1, which I mustve beaten 20 times, couldnt stand the sight of it.
Bioware was the only company I thought had a shot at Blizzards throne, but with DA2, Swtor and now ME3... yeah... not going to happen. Guess its time to really think about a purchase before buying it if its made by Bioware.
I didn't pick my copy up until the 12th as I had a whole week off and was planning to sit down and bring all of my Sheps up through ME3. Using the Cerberus pack as my ME1 games were on PC and not transferable to my PS3. After running through it with my full paragon adept Jack as LI I went out to eat to let it sink in. I came back, turned it on, imported my Tali LI game, played through Mars and just couldn't keep going.
So my Tali LI mixed, Mirand LI renegade, Femshep Garrus LI paragon, and Femshep Thane LI mixed still haven't gone through ME3. I wanted to see those, what did they say? 16 different endings?
My renegade seemed to have done more damage than the reapers, but knowing that I'd get the same three choices as my Paragon who had the whole bloody galaxy sitting down by the fire to sing Kumbaya really killed the replay value for me.
#9011
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:29
Marsland1234
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- Members
- 48 messages
#9012
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:40
Tercerobootleg
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- Members
- 3 messages
After that announcement, here are the thoughts that went through my head.
I reccommend Mass Effect 2 to every last one of my friends. My reccomendation with ME3 is not to buy it. Wait for the later edition that will actually include the huge glut of DLC that all of us idiots who bought it up front/got the collector's edition had to pay for to get the whole game. Personally, I feel kinda betrayed by Bioware in how they're handling DLC for this game. "From Ashes" was done completely seperately from the base game after the game was complete according to Bioware, but the character from it interacts with nearly every major character in the game, and quite a few minor ones too. Am I supposed to believe that the pulled every actor back into the fold for this DLC? They couldn't even get Seth Green back for Arrival, but here, they whole cast lends a hand? Sorry, but I'm calling bull on that one. If you really watch the ending, I'd say it's pretty clear Shepard's indoctrinated. Between that and the return to the Normandy with a "Now Play the DLC" message leads me to believe this ending was planned to get the reaction it has from the community. No press is bad press guys. And Mass Effect is all over the news for this one. And they will be again for being altruistic enough to "fix the problem" and give us the multitude of endings where our decisions actually do matter. The one that they apparantly didn't think we'd want and thus didn't include in our copies. Stuff that I have a feeling is actually cut content that we will now have the privelage of paying for. Admittedly, it's gonna work since I've invested so much of my time in this franchise, but after this, I'm done. Unless this ending is free, this is the last game I'm getting from either EA or Bioware.
I reccommend Mass Effect 2 to every last one of my friends. My reccomendation with ME3 is not to buy it. Wait for the later edition that will actually include the huge glut of DLC that all of us idiots who bought it up front/got the collector's edition had to pay for to get the whole game. Personally, I feel kinda betrayed by Bioware in how they're handling DLC for this game. "From Ashes" was done completely seperately from the base game after the game was complete according to Bioware, but the character from it interacts with nearly every major character in the game, and quite a few minor ones too. Am I supposed to believe that the pulled every actor back into the fold for this DLC? They couldn't even get Seth Green back for Arrival, but here, they whole cast lends a hand? Sorry, but I'm calling bull on that one. If you really watch the ending, I'd say it's pretty clear Shepard's indoctrinated. Between that and the return to the Normandy with a "Now Play the DLC" message leads me to believe this ending was planned to get the reaction it has from the community. No press is bad press guys. And Mass Effect is all over the news for this one. And they will be again for being altruistic enough to "fix the problem" and give us the multitude of endings where our decisions actually do matter. The one that they apparantly didn't think we'd want and thus didn't include in our copies. Stuff that I have a feeling is actually cut content that we will now have the privelage of paying for. Admittedly, it's gonna work since I've invested so much of my time in this franchise, but after this, I'm done. Unless this ending is free, this is the last game I'm getting from either EA or Bioware.
#9013
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:43
Cross429
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- Members
- 72 messages
http://m.fanfiction....20772/1/ theory
Bioware is in great shape if they:
1) Left the endings open so the above could be debated, and eventually clarify that this was the intention.
2) Intend to follow on with some sort of "Truth" DLC that frames the debate or even narrows it.
Bioware is not in great shape if:
3) They intended the endings provided to be interpreted literally and didn't even consider the "Indoctrination" element. But have faith! Bioware employs an absolutely amazing group of writers - and the evidence is fairly incontorvertible, at least in the sense that they wanted you to consider the Indoctrination element. But seriously? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this one's obvious. Catching Nixon stuffing his purse in the Watergate kind of stuff. Waaaaaaay too much tailored evidence to suggest they didn't even want you think about it.
Per the Bioware blog post, standing by the decisions of the artisitc team is FANTASTIC. I'm all for that. Loved the ending to The Sopranos. But I'm getting the sense that people aren't even seeing what they were trying to do here, DLC or no. Shepard was Indoctrinated: if you don't look at the evidence (a great summary of which is available via basic Google search or by hitting the above link), then you're simply missing out. You're debating an ending in a context for which it was never intended. Despite all the suggestions, it is apparently not obvious enough for many players to even consider it as an intriguing possibility.
But this isn't conspiracy theory or wishful thinking. Bioware, with their staff of incredible writers, wouldn't drop 500 obvious clues on you unless they wanted you to at least consider that possibility.
Regardless, to Bioware I'd say: your intentions of creating a controversial ending which can be hotly debated are great (again, I'd say the intent to cause a stir about the possibility of Indoctrination was clearly intended and not some sort of fringe or wishful theory), but not when no one's getting it (sadly), and not when said ending is claimed to result from player choices. In that case, The Sopranos doesn't work: it's a cop out. One that mars an incredible game and an incredible series. I'd suggest either issuing an explanatory statement: what was intended by the ending, including to be open ended, or putting out a DLC that does the same.
Seems like Bioware intended for a sequel to result from this - conclusively not with Shepard as a PC- but the "fight against the reapers" with Shepard dead, as the enemy, or somewhere in between.
Bioware is in great shape if they:
1) Left the endings open so the above could be debated, and eventually clarify that this was the intention.
2) Intend to follow on with some sort of "Truth" DLC that frames the debate or even narrows it.
Bioware is not in great shape if:
3) They intended the endings provided to be interpreted literally and didn't even consider the "Indoctrination" element. But have faith! Bioware employs an absolutely amazing group of writers - and the evidence is fairly incontorvertible, at least in the sense that they wanted you to consider the Indoctrination element. But seriously? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this one's obvious. Catching Nixon stuffing his purse in the Watergate kind of stuff. Waaaaaaay too much tailored evidence to suggest they didn't even want you think about it.
Per the Bioware blog post, standing by the decisions of the artisitc team is FANTASTIC. I'm all for that. Loved the ending to The Sopranos. But I'm getting the sense that people aren't even seeing what they were trying to do here, DLC or no. Shepard was Indoctrinated: if you don't look at the evidence (a great summary of which is available via basic Google search or by hitting the above link), then you're simply missing out. You're debating an ending in a context for which it was never intended. Despite all the suggestions, it is apparently not obvious enough for many players to even consider it as an intriguing possibility.
But this isn't conspiracy theory or wishful thinking. Bioware, with their staff of incredible writers, wouldn't drop 500 obvious clues on you unless they wanted you to at least consider that possibility.
Regardless, to Bioware I'd say: your intentions of creating a controversial ending which can be hotly debated are great (again, I'd say the intent to cause a stir about the possibility of Indoctrination was clearly intended and not some sort of fringe or wishful theory), but not when no one's getting it (sadly), and not when said ending is claimed to result from player choices. In that case, The Sopranos doesn't work: it's a cop out. One that mars an incredible game and an incredible series. I'd suggest either issuing an explanatory statement: what was intended by the ending, including to be open ended, or putting out a DLC that does the same.
Seems like Bioware intended for a sequel to result from this - conclusively not with Shepard as a PC- but the "fight against the reapers" with Shepard dead, as the enemy, or somewhere in between.
#9014
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:44
RevanREK
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cannabeastie wrote...
Waldschatten wrote...
Same here. I've played a lot of games over the years, but Mass Effect was the first series I've ever caught myself talking about characters as if they were real.
ME3 is one of only two games I've purchased at release since 2007, the series was just so well done that I wasn't about to wait around until it hit the pawn shop shelves for $10 to play the finale.
After finishing that though I'm not only turned off of playing Mass Effect, but the DLC I was working through on DA:O, MP on KillZone 3, Burnout with my kid, and Even Skyrim are sitting there collecting dust because I just can't bring myself to turn on my PS3 again.
I feel the same way, I haven't touched a video game since I finished ME3, it's like someone died or something... no pun intended.
Same. I didn't read any spoilers so it was completely unexpected for me, It was like, BLAM! SHEPARD DEAD! It was like, a slap in the face. I always used to joke with my bf how rubbish it would’ve been if mass effect had ended at the beginning of mass effect 2, after you 'die'... funny how these things unfold isn't it?
I literally just stared at the tv for hours, the first thought was, I stayed up all night for THIS!?? and then I felt crap for days afterwards, (I still have a lump in my throat)
The thing is for me is something happened in my life that it just reminded me of, it's ironic really that once upon a time Mass Effect was the thing that brought me out of severe depression and now it's all back again in strength, all the harsh realities of war and death...
I want to be helpful, I want to be constructive, I don't want to be rude, but I just want to point out that in Muzyka's letter he says its hard for them to swallow the fan's reaction to something that had been expected to go down a storm and it's upsetting for the people that worked so hard on the game (not in those words). Well I wish he could’ve felt the horrible feeling I felt when I finally finished the game, the horrible sickly feeling I still have now in my gut. The feeling that I've failed, and once again, lost a loved one...
#9015
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:46
animadpig
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This is my feedback to the ending of ME3.
The ending is not fit in ME universe. Machine, star child, can not be the creator of all the life because he is machine. The ending did not tell anything about the creator, reaper, and how to come out this absurd solution. Yes, it is absurd. If that is the ending, you have to come out the story to tell people what happen before. However, there is no such story in the current ME3. It is also the reason I consider ME3 is a incomplete game. And, if Bioware/EA will release DLC to make up the gap, it has to be free because ME3 is incomplete. Thanks.
The ending is not fit in ME universe. Machine, star child, can not be the creator of all the life because he is machine. The ending did not tell anything about the creator, reaper, and how to come out this absurd solution. Yes, it is absurd. If that is the ending, you have to come out the story to tell people what happen before. However, there is no such story in the current ME3. It is also the reason I consider ME3 is a incomplete game. And, if Bioware/EA will release DLC to make up the gap, it has to be free because ME3 is incomplete. Thanks.
#9016
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:46
improperdancing
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Cross429 wrote...
3) They intended the endings provided to be interpreted literally and didn't even consider the "Indoctrination" element. But have faith! Bioware employs an absolutely amazing group of writers - and the evidence is fairly incontorvertible, at least in the sense that they wanted you to consider the Indoctrination element. But seriously? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this one's obvious. Catching Nixon stuffing his purse in the Watergate kind of stuff. Waaaaaaay too much tailored evidence to suggest they didn't even want you think about it.
That amazing group of writers completely drove a sure thing into the ground in the last fifteen minutes of one of the most popular RPG franchises in the gaming industry. I don't have nearly as much faith in their writing team as I did before Mass Effect 3 came out.
#9017
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:47
Techlore
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An amazing game, i will say the bittersweet end is appropiate for the series, even the destruction of the mass relays i see as a grand ending, Vigil said on Ilos that they were there and knowing that civilations will use them and when they do, that leads them to the citadel and follow that path they want you too. conforms to them when they use them, and to break the cycle the only thing was to break the crutch. That idea i loved, but the whole "star child" choices bugged me, i mean, i can see the controling them and destroying them as options, that was setup well, but when star child said, yeah synthetics and organics will wipe eachother out... wait, we learn the Geth chose not to destroy the Quarians in the exile and in fact You had the option to broker peace between Quarians and Geth "BTW, i loved playing peacemaker" and Edi and Joker getting it on. Hmmm coexsist maybe being an option, I mean you did just spend the whole last 2 games building connections and bridging them together in ME3 to bring a whole new unity to the civilations of the Galaxy, and we see this did already break the pattern from Domination that the prothiens did.
Outside of that we really needed more of a wrap up, i think of the recent series of Battlestar Galatica and how they had such an amazing build to the end (Like ME3) but the diffrence was that there was closure, and hey this could still happen.
Now i do see alot of answers to most peoples questions,
what i could not figure out is how Shepard's crew got back onto the Normandy when they were all at the base on earth in london, and why they were in FTL, maybe joker was panicing and pushed that oversized drive core into another universe where 1+1=3, but i seemed liike it ended with a Giligans Island ending.
There were some bugs of in coversations Shepard is stairing at something entirely diffrent than who you are talking to, that happened a few times, i dont ever recal it happening in ME1 or ME2.
I was bummed that it seemed like you couldnt pursue any relationships with anyone you had in ME2, i spent most the game waiting for Miranda and she never joined,
And i was bummed that i didnt have any Krogen with me, I was expecting to have Grunt with me as Wrex was leading his people, i get that. But Grunts whole teamed died "at least in my version" no reason i couldnt have a Krogen with me.
Favortate moments... the whole game, as with many fans up until the last 5-10 minutes
BUt if i had to chose,
Staring down and blowing up a Reaper on Ranock
Liara writes your name in the stars
This is for thane,
Getting in the Atlas
The Child dream sequences and the emotional haunting
Having a close friendship with Liara
Bloody Grunt
The weapon custimizing,
Overall the game was brilliant and intense, emotionaly driving, i couldnt put down the controler, yeah it was about half the lenght of the other 2 but you are more focused so there arent really any side quest, which is fine, Earth is dieing, no time to play scavenger. I think most beat it in 20-25 hours, but in about a week, because once you start you cant stop.
I do ask you give us a more elebrate conclusion to the series, your Bioware, i know you have some of the best writers in the world, this just doesnt seem like you. Almost like someone else came up with the ending who didnt consult the other writers.
Outside of that we really needed more of a wrap up, i think of the recent series of Battlestar Galatica and how they had such an amazing build to the end (Like ME3) but the diffrence was that there was closure, and hey this could still happen.
Now i do see alot of answers to most peoples questions,
what i could not figure out is how Shepard's crew got back onto the Normandy when they were all at the base on earth in london, and why they were in FTL, maybe joker was panicing and pushed that oversized drive core into another universe where 1+1=3, but i seemed liike it ended with a Giligans Island ending.
There were some bugs of in coversations Shepard is stairing at something entirely diffrent than who you are talking to, that happened a few times, i dont ever recal it happening in ME1 or ME2.
I was bummed that it seemed like you couldnt pursue any relationships with anyone you had in ME2, i spent most the game waiting for Miranda and she never joined,
And i was bummed that i didnt have any Krogen with me, I was expecting to have Grunt with me as Wrex was leading his people, i get that. But Grunts whole teamed died "at least in my version" no reason i couldnt have a Krogen with me.
Favortate moments... the whole game, as with many fans up until the last 5-10 minutes
BUt if i had to chose,
Staring down and blowing up a Reaper on Ranock
Liara writes your name in the stars
This is for thane,
Getting in the Atlas
The Child dream sequences and the emotional haunting
Having a close friendship with Liara
Bloody Grunt
The weapon custimizing,
Overall the game was brilliant and intense, emotionaly driving, i couldnt put down the controler, yeah it was about half the lenght of the other 2 but you are more focused so there arent really any side quest, which is fine, Earth is dieing, no time to play scavenger. I think most beat it in 20-25 hours, but in about a week, because once you start you cant stop.
I do ask you give us a more elebrate conclusion to the series, your Bioware, i know you have some of the best writers in the world, this just doesnt seem like you. Almost like someone else came up with the ending who didnt consult the other writers.
#9018
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:47
jokey javik
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I did get early on that every one could not be saved what with mordin and thane (legion can be written back to life in my mind) I had a glitch in my game however and could not high paragon the illusive man into killing himself.
If there is one thing I want fixed it is letting proth cakes use the echo shard because I think he should have found some peace to his inner conflict and not want to kill himself by remembering his squad.
If there is one thing I want fixed it is letting proth cakes use the echo shard because I think he should have found some peace to his inner conflict and not want to kill himself by remembering his squad.
#9019
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:53
V-rcingetorix
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- 575 messages
First, hats off to the Powers That Be at Bioware/EA. While I can't respect an idiot that barges on his path not listening to advice; I can clearly respect the people that are able to recognize both the potential financial remuneration and responsibility to an audience that has grown to love the Mass Effect Series.
To that end I have given some thought on the ending, take my ideas gratis if you'd like.
1) Didn't Jack Harper (aka the Illusive Man) install a lot of hardware while healing/repairing Shep in ME2? Is it not possible that "software," not hardware was hidden in some of that hardware? Shep's movements seemed somewhat jerky, like the mechs in ME2. Therefore, it is logical to postulate the same VI was used/downloaded for a hidden moment later.
2) Perhaps Jack Harper has biotic powers? We have seen that Asari can share memories (eg Prothean racial memories to Shep, Liara sharing a memory). Could the same process be used to "short-circuit" a brain? After all, a brain is a highly sophisticated bit of circuitry, alone or by a bit of rewiring (see suggestion 1) maybe biotics could make the Shep brain susceptible to suggestion/control?
3) The Citadel obviously has a lot of hardware on board, some of it looked like Shadow Broker tech (electricity burn off area). Is it possible that the gun was magnetically attracted towards Anderson and fired, only to be pulled off course by Shep?
4) Cerberus has a lot of clout in the industry; perhaps Cerberus had unique hardware manufactured in each firearm/computer (aka Timothy Zahn's "Emperor's Hand" hardwired backdoor codes in his second dualogy).
5) An elaborate virtual reality? We have seen the various races and cultures use holographic technology, would the Reapers have that as well, enhanced 10x? MAy be a little Star Trek, but hey, a lot of people called anything after Jules Verne "copying."
6) Hallucinogenic Deathtrap Keepers and Citadel areas, designed to keep organics unstable; get yours at the nearest ReaperCo today!
7) Technological/software virus; Shepard is half machine, could not his perceptions (Windows 2100 edition) be bugged?
Here I find myself repeating portions of the previous, so I will stop. Mix and match, use or don't. I am just happy that there will be (I hope) an ending where Shep+ LI (if one) and his friends/allies can get their sunset farewell. Call me sappy, but it has worked for a lot of medias, from Antiquity to the present.
Best of Luck.
To that end I have given some thought on the ending, take my ideas gratis if you'd like.
1) Didn't Jack Harper (aka the Illusive Man) install a lot of hardware while healing/repairing Shep in ME2? Is it not possible that "software," not hardware was hidden in some of that hardware? Shep's movements seemed somewhat jerky, like the mechs in ME2. Therefore, it is logical to postulate the same VI was used/downloaded for a hidden moment later.
2) Perhaps Jack Harper has biotic powers? We have seen that Asari can share memories (eg Prothean racial memories to Shep, Liara sharing a memory). Could the same process be used to "short-circuit" a brain? After all, a brain is a highly sophisticated bit of circuitry, alone or by a bit of rewiring (see suggestion 1) maybe biotics could make the Shep brain susceptible to suggestion/control?
3) The Citadel obviously has a lot of hardware on board, some of it looked like Shadow Broker tech (electricity burn off area). Is it possible that the gun was magnetically attracted towards Anderson and fired, only to be pulled off course by Shep?
4) Cerberus has a lot of clout in the industry; perhaps Cerberus had unique hardware manufactured in each firearm/computer (aka Timothy Zahn's "Emperor's Hand" hardwired backdoor codes in his second dualogy).
5) An elaborate virtual reality? We have seen the various races and cultures use holographic technology, would the Reapers have that as well, enhanced 10x? MAy be a little Star Trek, but hey, a lot of people called anything after Jules Verne "copying."
6) Hallucinogenic Deathtrap Keepers and Citadel areas, designed to keep organics unstable; get yours at the nearest ReaperCo today!
7) Technological/software virus; Shepard is half machine, could not his perceptions (Windows 2100 edition) be bugged?
Here I find myself repeating portions of the previous, so I will stop. Mix and match, use or don't. I am just happy that there will be (I hope) an ending where Shep+ LI (if one) and his friends/allies can get their sunset farewell. Call me sappy, but it has worked for a lot of medias, from Antiquity to the present.
Best of Luck.
#9020
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:53
Cross429
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improperdancing wrote...
Cross429 wrote...
3) They intended the endings provided to be interpreted literally and didn't even consider the "Indoctrination" element. But have faith! Bioware employs an absolutely amazing group of writers - and the evidence is fairly incontorvertible, at least in the sense that they wanted you to consider the Indoctrination element. But seriously? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this one's obvious. Catching Nixon stuffing his purse in the Watergate kind of stuff. Waaaaaaay too much tailored evidence to suggest they didn't even want you think about it.
That amazing group of writers completely drove a sure thing into the ground in the last fifteen minutes of one of the most popular RPG franchises in the gaming industry. I don't have nearly as much faith in their writing team as I did before Mass Effect 3 came out.
Fair enough. Think they knew they were taking a risk, possibly for artistic purposes, and possibly because Speculation+Controversy=DLC $$$.
Either way, the point was to spark debate. You don't end a series like that without expecting it (dev notes confirm). People who dismiss the Indoctrination possibility (er.....likelihood, if this were a film, would be pretty clear) are missing out on that point, for what it's worth.
#9021
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:56
AJ2324
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Hurry and watch a live person playing ME 3 for the first time....
He's at the end now. He'll need support...
http://da.twitch.tv/luzarius
He's at the end now. He'll need support...
http://da.twitch.tv/luzarius
#9022
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:58
GoddessOfTree
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I think that my favorite moments were the sacrifices... Mordin, Legion, Thane... It was well-scripted.
#9023
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:59
TcheQ
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- 275 messages
The endings were fine. The exposition required to justify that those endings make even the slightest bit of sense? Where is it?
I invested 70 hours of my time to learn the story of the Mass Effect universe, only to have the entire contingent working universe to be smashed to piece in the last 5 minutes. Did no one at Bioware think 'wait a minute, this ending is completely bonkers and not consistent with any of the established lore and ethos that has been built upon that thousands of players are expecting to be resolved'.
The only salvage that can possibly be retained from this trainwreck is if it turns out that ME3 has a STALKER type ending (5 'fake'/bad, two real/'good')
'Oh yeah, let's make up a situation where synthetic and organic life actually lives in a difference sub space and are irreconcilable, so that we can claim that a magical spaceship that controls the galaxy can fuse them'
Why did none of this get mentioned in any of the previous 70 hours? Ever? Not even the slightest hint?
I will never be able to become emotionally involved in a game by Bioware again. All I can ever expect is severe and overwhelming disappointment.
In essence Mass Effect 3 last five minutes:
We've forgone detailed exposition so we can insert a cheap pro-religious joke
I invested 70 hours of my time to learn the story of the Mass Effect universe, only to have the entire contingent working universe to be smashed to piece in the last 5 minutes. Did no one at Bioware think 'wait a minute, this ending is completely bonkers and not consistent with any of the established lore and ethos that has been built upon that thousands of players are expecting to be resolved'.
The only salvage that can possibly be retained from this trainwreck is if it turns out that ME3 has a STALKER type ending (5 'fake'/bad, two real/'good')
'Oh yeah, let's make up a situation where synthetic and organic life actually lives in a difference sub space and are irreconcilable, so that we can claim that a magical spaceship that controls the galaxy can fuse them'
Why did none of this get mentioned in any of the previous 70 hours? Ever? Not even the slightest hint?
I will never be able to become emotionally involved in a game by Bioware again. All I can ever expect is severe and overwhelming disappointment.
In essence Mass Effect 3 last five minutes:
We've forgone detailed exposition so we can insert a cheap pro-religious joke
#9024
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:59
ZoMbIEx23x
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If the indoctrination theory is true, and I hope it is because I think that's flipping cool, I hope that they add a different branch where instead of getting hit by the reaper you instead make it to the lift and complete your mission as planned. That would be a very interesting series of events to see unfold.
I'd like to see another section of game added in taking place after the current ending if you had picked destruction. I want to know what happens when shepard climbs out of that rubble really angry looking to set things on fire, preferably reaper things. I think it would be interesting if they could come up with any content for the other two choices, I would think Shepard might just be dead then, or you could do some missions for the reapers in which you have to convince everyone else to join you. That would be pretty rediculous but it's an idea.
I'd like to see another section of game added in taking place after the current ending if you had picked destruction. I want to know what happens when shepard climbs out of that rubble really angry looking to set things on fire, preferably reaper things. I think it would be interesting if they could come up with any content for the other two choices, I would think Shepard might just be dead then, or you could do some missions for the reapers in which you have to convince everyone else to join you. That would be pretty rediculous but it's an idea.
Modifié par ZoMbIEx23x, 22 mars 2012 - 04:04 .
#9025
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 04:02
stryke135
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Mass effect 3 was my favorite game of all time, right up until the last ten minutes. If I could go back in time I would turn off the game before I got on the glowing elevator. The ending didn't make sense in so many ways, and left you with more questions than answers, while hardly reflecting any of the choices that you actually made in the game.
