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[themerryone]

I think the best way to express how I feel about the ending
is to walk you through my issues with it as I was experiencing it, starting
from the moment when Shepard is hit by Harbinger’s beam.

Issue #1: Shepard’s condition after the beam hit.

The moment I saw Shepard bloodied after being hit by the laser, I thought “uh oh.”  That scene indicated to me that the combat portion of the game was over.  I was expecting there to be at least an additional hour of combat gameplay within the Citadel.  Up to that point, in my opinion, the gameplay on Earth was nothing special; it was not as tense as the lead up to the Shroud in the mission on Tuchanka, and it certainly was not as frenetic and exciting as the Collector Base in Mass Effect 2.  I was happy to overlook that, though, because I felt the entire mission on Earth was a prelude to an even more epic sequence in the Citadel itself.  Hence, I was very surprised when I saw Shepard bloodied.  The pacing did not seem right to me.  I felt let down. 

Issue #2: The state of Shepard’s team.

This is never fully explained.  I took Liara and Garrus with me.  Were they the only ones who charged at the beam with me, or did my entire team come along?  At the time, I assumed it was just Liara and Garrus.  A voice over said that the entire force had been wiped out, so I assumed that they had died.  This struck me as a bad way to kill off a character.  First of all, I could bring whoever I wanted with me.  Had I known that they would die, I would simply have brought along Javik and James, since they were the two characters I had the least emotional investment in.  Prior to the ending, deaths of major characters were done beautifully.  Mordin’s death and Thane’s death stirred a level of emotion in me that I do not often experience in any entertainment medium.  The difference in the level of care shown to the death of characters I’ve come to love between those scenes and this one was jarring. 

Issue #3: The appearance of the Illusive Man.

This is a minor issue, but I personally feel like the Illusive Man’s arc should have concluded at the Cerberus Base.  The setup was there: have the big boss fight be against Kai Leng, and then do a dialogue-based conclusion with the Illusive Man.  I’ve always considered Cerberus the secondary enemy in the game, so I feel like Cerberus’s
involvement should’ve ended there so the story could focus on the Reapers.  Hence, his appearance at the ending did not fit with how I thought the story would go.  Minor issue, but issue nonetheless.

Issue #4: The grayed-out options in the final dialogue with the Illusive Man.

In my playthrough, I was about 90% Paragon.  That’s actually less paragon than I usually go, because I read Patrick Weekes’ March 1st post on the BioWare blog detailing the reputation system in Mass Effect 3.  I thought the new system was brilliant.  In that blog post, Mr. Weekes explicitly wrote “There’s no penalty for mixing Paragon and Renegade.”  However, even though I had a full Reputation bar, I still couldn’t access those final Paragon and Renegade options with the Illusive Man.  Do you need to go full Paragon or full Renegade to access those options?  That’s the only explanation I can think of.  If so, then Mr. Weekes, at best, committed an oversight.  Had
I not read that blog post, I would not have done as many renegade actions as I did.  I did so specifically because
I was convinced by that blog post that it didn’t affect my access to paragon options.  This was an annoying
development. 

Issue #5: The phrasing of the Catalyst.

This is a syntactical issue, but an important one.  When I was listening to the Catalyst, he made it seem like the mass relays would only be destroyed if I chose Synthesis.  If I remember correctly, it’s only after he mentions synthesis that he says the phrase “but it would also destroy the mass relays.”  Maybe I wasn’t listening closely, but the Catalyst gives you a lot of information in a short time and I was still confused, so it sounded like that to me.  I didn’t want the mass relays destroyed, so I immediately ruled out choosing Synthesis.  This contributed to my disappointment when I ultimately chose Control and saw that the relays were destroyed anyway. 

Issue #6:  The inability to check what the options are.

I didn’t intend to choose Control.  I figured it couldn’t be right that after fighting the Illusive Man all game you would choose to do the same thing he wanted to do.  But, as I said, the Catalyst was giving me a lot of information in a short time and I was confused, so I didn’t notice that the Illusive Man was interacting with the blue panel and
that Anderson was interacting with the red one.  I was still processing the information the Catalyst gave me, so I was lost in thought.  When I had to make a decision, I naturally assumed that Anderson was symbolized by the
Paragon color, so I chose the blue panel.  Right before hitting the panel, the prompt comes up saying “Use
Panel.”  That gives me no information.  It should’ve said something like “Control Reapers.”  Better yet, let us talk to the Catalyst again to confirm our choices.  (Note: I haven’t tried this because I don’t want to go through the endings again.  If you can talk to the Catalyst again to review choices, disregard this issue.)

Issue #7:  The squadmates that emerge from the Normandy after it crashes.

Garrus emerged from the Normandy in the cutscene after it crashed.  I was confused when I saw this.  I thought he had died.  Given that he didn’t, how did he get back on the Normandy?  Is this a bug?  This issue has been mentioned ad nauseum, so I won’t go further, but it was definitely a point of confusion when I saw it. 

Issue #8:  The credits.

I don’t have an issue with the credits themselves.  I’m just using this space to sum up what I have so far.  So at this
point, I’ve finished the game.  My first thought was, “That’s it?”  My second thought was, “No, I’m sure they have more after the credits.”  But then I realized that post-credits scenes are always short clips, and I was hoping for a long montage showing the fates of all the characters in the game, a la Final Fantasy VI.  Slowly, I began to realize that I had just seen the entirety of the ending.  I was perplexed.  I was expecting a conclusion to the series. 
Instead, I just had more questions.  Did Shepard become a machine?  Where is the Normandy stranded?  What happens to all these characters that I’ve grown to love?  Hence, I thought, “okay, this is one of the weird endings of the game.  I must have chosen wrong.”  So I reloaded the game and vowed to make a different choice. 

Issue #9:  The autosave before making a choice.

I was glad to see that the game autosaved after your talk with the Catalyst.  I figured this would allow me to go back and watch each of the endings easily.  Unfortunately, this was not the case.  After I finished watching the ending and was back on the Normandy, I checked and the autosave was back before Earth!  So I had to load “Restart
Mission,” which starts when you’re dropped onto the Citadel.  This forced me to sit through that entire scene with the Illusive Man and that entire scene with the Catalyst before being able to make a decision again.  This kind of thing is a pet peeve of mine in video games, so I was very annoyed to see it here, especially since I really, really wanted to see the other endings. 

Issue #10:  How similar the endings were.

When I finally was in a position to pick another ending, I chose Synthesis.  As I watched it,
I was shocked at how similar it was to the Control ending.  When I was picturing the consequences of synthesis, I imagined there would be a long string of cutscenes showing how each of the major characters in the game was affected by synthesis.  Instead, I got the same thing as control.  The only difference is that the explosion is green and Joker has some weird Tron-like circuits on his skin.  Again, did Shepard die?  Where’s the Normandy?  What happened to everyone?  I expected resolution; what I got was mystery.

Issue #11:  Discovering that all the endings were like this.

At this point, I couldn’t be bothered to sit through the scene with the Illusive Man again, so I went online to check what the rest of the endings were like.  I was flabbergasted to discover that all the endings were pretty much like the ones I had seen.  I first picked up a controller as a five-year-old playing Super Mario Bros. 3, and in the 19 years since then I have never been so blindsided and disappointed by a video game
ending.   That was it?  That was all that was there?  What about everything I had done?  Where was my scene showing Jack protecting the biotic students as they supported the troops on Earth?  Where was my scene showing Samara leading a group of asari commandos into battle?  Where was my scene showing the Destiny Ascension, a ship that I had sacrificed eight Alliance cruisers to save, tearing a hole in Reaper after Reaper?  Where was my scene showing Reaper forces attempting to board the Crucible, only to be repelled by Jacob, Miranda, and Kasumi?  Where was my scene showing a quarian ship about to be destroyed, only to be saved by a geth ship as I grinned from ear to ear thinking about how I had made that possible?  Where was my scene showing a Turian platoon being overwhelmed by Marauders, only to be saved by Wrex, Grunt, and a Krogan company?  I could go on and on.  Where were the consequences of my actions?  The mass relays are always destroyed?  Doesn’t that shatter the galactic unity that I spent literally the whole game piecing together?  In short, I was disconsolate and devastated.

The Mass Effect universe is my favorite fictional universe of all time.  I care about Mass Effect more than Star Wars, more than Lord of the Rings, more than Harry Potter, more than any other world I’ve been to in my 24 years of life.  I’ve never pre-ordered a game before, but I pre-ordered Mass Effect 3.  I’ve never purchased a collector’s edition before, but I wanted one for this game and I was furious when I discovered it was sold out on Xbox back in early
February.  Mass Effect captured my imagination in a way that hasn’t happened since I was a child.

It’s been about ten days since I beat the game.  I’ve been unable to concentrate at work, constantly refreshing BSN, Reddit, and Google searching for any scrap of news I can find.  I donated $100 to the Child’s Play drive.   I’ve
spent the past two hours writing this, even though the chances that it will make a meaningful difference is remote. 
But I loved the Mass Effect series and I want to speak out, no matter how small the voice may be.

I will end on a bit of a bright note.  My favorite moment in the game?  Hearing the words “Blue Rose of Ilium”
when I gave that krogan’s message to his asari wife.  I had no idea that was Charr.  I have never cried watching a movie or reading a book, let alone playing a video game, but that moment, when shock, dismay, and terrible
sadness hit me within the span of a couple seconds, was the closest I’ve ever come to doing so.  These were two
characters I had spent a grand total of five minutes maximum interacting with over the course of a hundred hour game series, but I felt like I was there.  I felt like I was standing there, listing to a heartbroken woman hear news about her dead love.  It was not a happy moment, but to me, it was the most beautiful moment in the game. 

It’s unfortunate that the ending didn’t elicit the same reaction.  

Modifié par themerryone, 22 mars 2012 - 04:10 .

[awaisrauf]

 I just want to say I'm a huge fan of the mass effect series. I bought the first game based on some early videos about the combat and dialog systems without even knowing anything about the plot and loved it.

I subsequently bought the second and third collectors edition of the games just beacuse of the extra content and I didnt want to miss anything story wise, as well as all downloadable content.

I should say I haven't finished the third game yet and after hearing all the bad reviews about the ending I'm in no rush to either. I understand how there's literally 1000s of choices that gets imported from mass effect 1 and 2 (obviously, not all crucial to changing the plot) and how difficult it must be to write for every eventuality that the player might force based on his/her past choices. So I understand the limited number of endings, and dont know why people are complaining about it, it's unrelastic to assume there would be 1000s of endings, from a practical programming/development point of view. As far as common sense goes there can only be 3 vastly different endings: 1) "humans" win, reaper threat and VI stopped for good 2) Repears win, all species destroyed or 3) Some kind of peace is forged between organics and reapers/AI and repears are some how controlled. The 1st ending offers no opportunity for a sequel, the 2nd could have one 50,000 from now when organic life is built up again and they find something from shepard as a warning and 3rd could have a sequel more in the immenent future when the reapers are free again somehow.

The more valid critism I believe is the actualy last 5-10 minutes. This is an ending to not just one but 3 games, I dont think any fan would mind have a more detailed ending explaining what happens to all the main characters/races/worlds, even if its 30 min long or more. Whethere shepard lives or dies I dont think any one cares but closure is improtant, especially if this is the last game of the franchise.

Please read Ross Lincolns article, he has some very good points. http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/ such as the circular logic of killing organics to save orgaincs from being killed, seems like a cop out reason why any of this even started. As well as the plot holes about destroying the relays (which would kill more organics than the reapers could) and the normandy just magically appearing out of nowhere. This is what seems really frustrating to me, you guys took so much time in keeping the continuity over 3 games, even importing the old save files into the new games (something that has never been done before on any console game that i'm aware of), that making an ending with such terrible plot holes just seems lazy too me. Why work so hard for like 4 years and put so much effort into 99% of it just to phone it in at the end? I dont know if it was because of a rush to meet deadlines or EA interfering too much, but it simply shouldnt have been allowed to happen.

I only hope there will be some dlc in the near future which explains things more throughly/cleans up the plot holes or adds the 'real' ending, which is either forced to be made by fan outcry or was orignially part of your plan the whole time (and fan rage made you talk about it before you were ready too), I think either will be fine and accepted by mass effect players.

[ZoMbIEx23x]

stryke135 wrote...

 Mass effect 3 was my favorite game of all time, right up until the last ten minutes. If I could go back in time I would turn off the game before I got on the glowing elevator. The ending didn't make sense in so many ways, and left you with more questions than answers, while hardly reflecting any of the choices that you actually made in the game. 

You would think that having enough war assets and a high enough readiness rating that the whole lift fiasco would be avoided. There should've been some ship that flies in and knocks the jewels off the reaper allowing you safe passage into the lift. That's the only thing I can think of that could affect the ending. Everything else was building relationships when you tear it down. I think this would be worthy to work on for dlc.

[improperdancing]

Cross429 wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

Cross429 wrote...

3) They intended the endings provided to be interpreted literally and didn't even consider the "Indoctrination" element. But have faith!  Bioware employs an absolutely amazing group of writers - and the evidence is fairly incontorvertible, at least in the sense that they wanted you to consider the Indoctrination element. But seriously? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this one's obvious. Catching Nixon stuffing his purse in the Watergate kind of stuff. Waaaaaaay too much tailored evidence to suggest they didn't even want you think about it.

That amazing group of writers completely drove a sure thing into the ground in the last fifteen minutes of one of the most popular RPG franchises in the gaming industry.  I don't have nearly as much faith in their writing team as I did before Mass Effect 3 came out. 

Fair enough. Think they knew they were taking a risk, possibly for artistic purposes, and possibly because Speculation+Controversy=DLC $$$.

Either way, the point was to spark debate. You don't end a series like that without expecting it (dev notes confirm). People who dismiss the Indoctrination possibility (er.....likelihood, if this were a film, would be pretty clear) are missing out on that point, for what it's worth.

I definitely don't dismiss the possibility of indoctrination, but unlike some, I don't see that ending as brilliant.  I see it as BioWare purposefully shipping an incomplete game in order to charge us money to get the real ending later.  And, as I've said before, I find that a much more disgusting practice than the ending just being bad.

If that is indeed the case, and BioWare decides to charge for the ending DLC, I will never buy another BioWare product.

Really, if BioWare decides to charge for this ending DLC at all, I will probably buy it, because I've invested enough time into this series that I feel the need for the closure the current ending didn't provide, but it will be the last piece of software I ever buy from them.  If the DLC is free, the quality of it will determine whether or not I continue to purchase BioWare products.

In my mind, though, free is the only way for them to go with this.  They've already let down a ridiculously large number of their fans and broken almost every promise they ever made about the endings (see: http://social.biowar.../index/10409105).  Not making it right by offering the new ending DLC for free would pretty much be the last straw for me.

[JDMiller5150]

Dude. I cant get over how this dude TOTALLY KILLS IT in this video! Basically all MY points are illustrated in this video. If you've already seen it, then share it with your friends. This guy has our back for sure.

[Cross429]

ZoMbIEx23x wrote...

If the indoctrination theory is true, and I hope it is because I think that's flipping cool, I hope that they add a different branch where instead of getting hit by the reaper you instead make it to the lift and complete your mission as planned. That would be a very interesting series of events to see unfold. 

I'd like to see another section of game added in taking place after the current ending if you had picked destruction. I want to know what happens when shepard climbs out of that rubble really angry looking to set things on fire, preferably reaper things. I think it would be interesting if they could come up with any content for the other two choices, I would think Shepard might just be dead then, or you could do some missions for the reapers in which you have to convince everyone else to join you. That would be pretty rediculous but it's an idea.

I wish : - ) My Shep picked the synthesis option, which I'm fairly certain now (given that it results in Shep's eyes changing to match TIM's exactly for the first time in the series, and essentially buys into what the Reapers were going for) was a bad, bad choice. No waking up in the London rubble for me, 6000 EMR or no.

But I'm going to stick with my decisions, and hope that Bioware moves forward with plans for a DLC that addresses all possiblities and doesn't simply hope this word of mouth will fuel a sequel (not that it would be lacking in sales, anyway). It's not about closure: it's about consequence, as it has been through this entire series. Can't believe the writers couldn't see that: so I'm guessing that they did, and planned this to be fodder for a sequel or DLC (consistent with the dev blog post, where both are strongly implicated or confirmed).

[RevanREK]

Cross429 wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

Cross429 wrote...

3) They intended the endings provided to be interpreted literally and didn't even consider the "Indoctrination" element. But have faith!  Bioware employs an absolutely amazing group of writers - and the evidence is fairly incontorvertible, at least in the sense that they wanted you to consider the Indoctrination element. But seriously? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this one's obvious. Catching Nixon stuffing his purse in the Watergate kind of stuff. Waaaaaaay too much tailored evidence to suggest they didn't even want you think about it.

That amazing group of writers completely drove a sure thing into the ground in the last fifteen minutes of one of the most popular RPG franchises in the gaming industry.  I don't have nearly as much faith in their writing team as I did before Mass Effect 3 came out. 

Fair enough. Think they knew they were taking a risk, possibly for artistic purposes, and possibly because Speculation+Controversy=DLC $$$.

Either way, the point was to spark debate. You don't end a series like that without expecting it (dev notes confirm). People who dismiss the Indoctrination possibility (er.....likelihood, if this were a film, would be pretty clear) are missing out on that point, for what it's worth.

As much as I dislike the indoctrination theory, I think it's really the only thing that can make sense of the whole thing really. It defiantly makes a whole lot more sense then the actual endING. The thing I have the most problem with the indoct theory is that my English teacher always used to say that the worst ending to a book was for the character to wake up and everything was a dream, because it makes the story unimportant and totally disregards everything that happened. 

But after saying that, the indoctrination theory would be quite interesting. And I admit, it would be fun trying to fight out of it, but they should not destroy the mass relays, or leave the squad mates stranded on some tropical planet. If Shepard is going to die, or survive, (I would normally fight for retirement but right now, I'm too tired to care anymore) then she can't do it alone!!! Shepard is never alone, and she shouldn't have to be alone in death either! I don't believe they would just leave her side like that! It's completely out of character, and it doesn't explain how they suddenly appeared on the Normandy even though they were right behind shep a second ago, so if there was an indoctrination theory ending then I think the 'Normandy' cutsecne should be a dream too. But then, I don't know what franchise they have planned after this? They did say there would be more adventures in the ME universe, perhaps the mass relays being destroyed and crew members left on a new planet is part of it... I just hope not...

Perhaps she could snap out of indoctrination by the romanced character performing the kiss of life?? I want more Garrus/Shep cheese!!

[Zin]

Even if the indoctrination theory proves correct... it doesn't answer the real questions most fans were interested in to begin with. So it's still a bad idea.

Here I am concerned about what my shepard will continue to do (provided that he lives.. But if he dies.. make it feel like my choice.. It's my heroic resolve. Don't force me. Should my Shepard ask someone close to him to bite the dust? Or is my Shepard man enough to face the music himself?)
I'm also interested in what my companions will continue to do. How far my previous actions extend into the future.

I don't care if Shepard was really indoctrinated. That isn't the story/question most care about. I care about the relationships my Shepard have forged. To have this ending slap you in the face in the last five minutes is just insulting to me.

It's like having a nice time at a party. Then you have an arguement with a friend and then you get punched in the face. Now you can explain that you had a nice time at the party... but the thing that sticks out from the night before was that you had an arugement with a friend and got punched in the face.

Seriously:

Have a good ending like Jaden Empire... Neverwinter Nights Hordes of the Underdark... Dragon Age Origins... Except more visually pleasing. We're in a better console generation after all.

I say it again: Mass Effect has been about making good, crystal clear choices, and then seeing the actual effects from them. It's in the title: MASS EFFECT!

Make an ending that represents this.

It's too weird to have two prequel games that are visually clunky and full of odd programing choices to the point where you just ignore the details and focus only on the dialouge/story. Then in the third installment you're suppose to pay full attention to this?

What is this? Silent Hill? No. It's Mass Effect. This is a cheesy sci-fi game with feme fatales in tighty whity space-suits, robot boobs and an over-the-top squad with colorful personalities that would never exist in real life!

Changing the style this drastically just paints me the picture of an artist that isn't comfortable with what he is serving. He gets distracted with new ideas and it becomes a giant mess. ... which it DID because 90% are unhappy.

Modifié par Zin, 22 mars 2012 - 04:21 .

[darkshadow136]

The only thing I see that would work is by removing the Starchild altogether, and have Harbinger Reanimate the illusive man’s body like Sovereign did with Saren in ME1, and have Harbinger do battle with Sheppard 1on1 inside the Citadel. Most players of ME3 expected that Harbinger was going to play a very important part in the story, and fully expected a final showdown of sorts between Sheppard and Harbinger.

The rest of how the ending would happen from there Bioware can work their magic. I do feel though if they went that route they could incorporate peoples choices into at least 6 possible ending outcomes going from very good-worst.
Also they really need to separate multiplayer from having influence on single player. Despite what they say there is no way to get the ending were Sheppard draws his one breath before credits without playing multiplayer.

If that is too much for them, then they at least to lower the assets required to get that, since even if you make all the right decisions, and gather all war assets you can’t get that ending unless playing multiplayer, and they also promised that it would be possible to get all the endings without playing multiplayer.

[Cross429]

RevanREK wrote...

Cross429 wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

Cross429 wrote...

3) They intended the endings provided to be interpreted literally and didn't even consider the "Indoctrination" element. But have faith!  Bioware employs an absolutely amazing group of writers - and the evidence is fairly incontorvertible, at least in the sense that they wanted you to consider the Indoctrination element. But seriously? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this one's obvious. Catching Nixon stuffing his purse in the Watergate kind of stuff. Waaaaaaay too much tailored evidence to suggest they didn't even want you think about it.

That amazing group of writers completely drove a sure thing into the ground in the last fifteen minutes of one of the most popular RPG franchises in the gaming industry.  I don't have nearly as much faith in their writing team as I did before Mass Effect 3 came out. 

Fair enough. Think they knew they were taking a risk, possibly for artistic purposes, and possibly because Speculation+Controversy=DLC $$$.

Either way, the point was to spark debate. You don't end a series like that without expecting it (dev notes confirm). People who dismiss the Indoctrination possibility (er.....likelihood, if this were a film, would be pretty clear) are missing out on that point, for what it's worth.

As much as I dislike the indoctrination theory, I think it's really the only thing that can make sense of the whole thing really. It defiantly makes a whole lot more sense then the actual endING. The thing I have the most problem with the indoct theory is that my English teacher always used to say that the worst ending to a book was for the character to wake up and everything was a dream, because it makes the story unimportant and totally disregards everything that happened. 

But after saying that, the indoctrination theory would be quite interesting. And I admit, it would be fun trying to fight out of it, but they should not destroy the mass relays, or leave the squad mates stranded on some tropical planet. If Shepard is going to die, or survive, (I would normally fight for retirement but right now, I'm too tired to care anymore) then she can't do it alone!!! Shepard is never alone, and she shouldn't have to be alone in death either! I don't believe they would just leave her side like that! It's completely out of character, and it doesn't explain how they suddenly appeared on the Normandy even though they were right behind shep a second ago, so if there was an indoctrination theory ending then I think the 'Normandy' cutsecne should be a dream too. But then, I don't know what franchise they have planned after this? They did say there would be more adventures in the ME universe, perhaps the mass relays being destroyed and crew members left on a new planet is part of it... I just hope not...

Perhaps she could snap out of indoctrination by the romanced character performing the kiss of life?? I want more Garrus/Shep cheese!!

[jeweledleah]

themerryone wrote...


Issue #4: The grayed-out options in the final dialogue with the Illusive Man.

In my playthrough, I was about 90% Paragon.  That’s actually less paragon than I usually go, because I read Patrick Weekes’ March 1st post on the BioWare blog detailing the reputation system in Mass Effect 3.  I thought the new system was brilliant.  In that blog post, Mr. Weekes explicitly wrote “There’s no penalty for mixing Paragon and Renegade.”  However, even though I had a full Reputation bar, I still couldn’t access those final Paragon and Renegade options with the Illusive Man.  Do you need to go full Paragon or full Renegade to access those options?  That’s the only explanation I can think of.  If so, then Mr. Weekes, at best, committed an oversight.  Had
I not read that blog post, I would not have done as many renegade actions as I did.  I did so specifically because
I was convinced by that blog post that it didn’t affect my access to paragon options.  This was an annoying
development. 

its not as much reputation base as its persuasion check based.  it doesn't matter whether you use paragon or renegade options, you had to have used persuasion options in the first 2 conversations with TIM.  basicaly, if you missed a persuasion check on Mars?  doesn't matter how high your score is, you won't be able to use that last option on the Citadel.

or in other words - imported saves or NG+ saves can usualy convince TIM.  new ME3 games?  cannot.

[Cross429]

RevanREK wrote...

Cross429 wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

Cross429 wrote...

3) They intended the endings provided to be interpreted literally and didn't even consider the "Indoctrination" element. But have faith!  Bioware employs an absolutely amazing group of writers - and the evidence is fairly incontorvertible, at least in the sense that they wanted you to consider the Indoctrination element. But seriously? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this one's obvious. Catching Nixon stuffing his purse in the Watergate kind of stuff. Waaaaaaay too much tailored evidence to suggest they didn't even want you think about it.

That amazing group of writers completely drove a sure thing into the ground in the last fifteen minutes of one of the most popular RPG franchises in the gaming industry.  I don't have nearly as much faith in their writing team as I did before Mass Effect 3 came out. 

Fair enough. Think they knew they were taking a risk, possibly for artistic purposes, and possibly because Speculation+Controversy=DLC $$$.

Either way, the point was to spark debate. You don't end a series like that without expecting it (dev notes confirm). People who dismiss the Indoctrination possibility (er.....likelihood, if this were a film, would be pretty clear) are missing out on that point, for what it's worth.

As much as I dislike the indoctrination theory, I think it's really the only thing that can make sense of the whole thing really. It defiantly makes a whole lot more sense then the actual endING. The thing I have the most problem with the indoct theory is that my English teacher always used to say that the worst ending to a book was for the character to wake up and everything was a dream, because it makes the story unimportant and totally disregards everything that happened. 

But after saying that, the indoctrination theory would be quite interesting. And I admit, it would be fun trying to fight out of it, but they should not destroy the mass relays, or leave the squad mates stranded on some tropical planet. If Shepard is going to die, or survive, (I would normally fight for retirement but right now, I'm too tired to care anymore) then she can't do it alone!!! Shepard is never alone, and she shouldn't have to be alone in death either! I don't believe they would just leave her side like that! It's completely out of character, and it doesn't explain how they suddenly appeared on the Normandy even though they were right behind shep a second ago, so if there was an indoctrination theory ending then I think the 'Normandy' cutsecne should be a dream too. But then, I don't know what franchise they have planned after this? They did say there would be more adventures in the ME universe, perhaps the mass relays being destroyed and crew members left on a new planet is part of it... I just hope not...

Perhaps she could snap out of indoctrination by the romanced character performing the kiss of life?? I want more Garrus/Shep cheese!!

Agree completely on all counts. I'm not claiming that the Indoctrination theory is satisfying: I'm claiming that it's bloody likely, and was designed to keep the game going (either DLC or a very different ME sequel).

Some say it's grasping at straws, but Indoctrination is so clearly referenced, and the signals/inconsistencies so clearly there, that to ignore it would be to accept a MASSIVE drop in simple thought processes from Bioware writers completely out of the range of all previous offerings. If Shepard were to sprout wings and fly off the Citadel while the surrounding characters opined on the existence of Angels, I simply wouldn't ignore that the possibility that Bioware intended him to be one, even if you don't like the idea.

As to the plot specifics you mentioned, remember: the "dream" - complete change in plot dynamics, unrealistic events occurring in which your face is rubbed, and a complete UI overhaul - occurs after the Reaper beam hits. After that, you choose Indocrination or not: but none of the events you witness literally happen. The DLC (or....sigh....sequel) would pick up from there.

[Lak_Attack]

I don't know if I can say anything that hasn't already been said, but I'll add my two bits.

Although I can't remember who, it was once said that video game could never be art. When I heard this, my thoughts instantly went to the Bioware. All their games are lovingly crafted, and are a masterpiece of storytelling and vision. If these can't be called art, I don't know what can. Mass Effect 3 was a spectacular game. When I thought I had lost Grunt I began to cry manly tears, only to whoop with joy when he came back. And Mordin, Thane and Legion! It broke my heart, but I was so proud to see these characters dying heroically, and fighting for their ideals.
Curing the genophage, creating peace between the Geth and Quarians, finally shooting Udina after waiting two games, these were the perfect ways to end the day!

And then I reached the ending.

There's enough ranting here, so I'll try to keep it short.
Conceptually, I liked the Star-Child, but I don't believe it was well executed. By suddenly changing the main antagonist at the very end, it was....well...discouraging. I spent all that time against the Reapers, when I should have fought this guy?? It took away the sinister mysterious nature of the Reapers, who had become simple minions.

But what really bothers me is the destruction of the relays. Assuming everyone didn't die of the blast, Earth is more or less doomed. It couldn't support all those species at it's best, let alone in it's current state (you know its' bad when Wrex offers you space Tuchunka). So we can assume in these endings everyone starves and dies. Horribly. And even if they do manage to survive, between this and the citadel blowing up, galactic civilization is destroyed. It nullifies everything you just did. Everything I was fighting for is gone. Destroying the relays is like destroying magic in Harry Potter.

I'm not saying get rid of the 3 endings you have. But give us other options. Make the originals a trick the Reapers try to force you into. And finally, please show us our War Assets, and our squad kicking butt on Earth,'cause I was getting kind of depressed watching everyone die. I wanted to see the Rachni Queen roaring ferociously, as krogan, led by Wrex and Grunt swarmed the enemy. Turian snipers (Garrus?) keeping the krogan from being overrun, as Asari and Jack's team tear the husks in half with their biotics. Mercenaries using harsh tactics to take out the Reapers, while the elcor serenely mow down the incoming hordes. And two words: Drell. Ninjas.

[Silvair]

Honestly, I would have been okay with the ending (I only did the 3rd ending, Synthesis...then I got hit with the freezeup on start screen thing)....IF I hadn't spent the last 3 games warming up to and romancing Tali.

It was just such a massive letdown romancing her, then going through the whole Rannoch ordeal with her, only for her to just disappear right at the end, and Shepard to die, leaving her alone (if she even survived).

If Shepard wasn't seeing anyone then sure, sacrifice for the greater good. But having a Romance should have given another option for Shepard to live, because now he has someone he needs to go back to after the mission!

[jazzking2001]

BW
just watch this vid

JDMiller5150 wrote...

Dude. I cant get over how this dude TOTALLY KILLS IT in this video! Basically all MY points are illustrated in this video. If you've already seen it, then share it with your friends. This guy has our back for sure.

[Lak_Attack]

Before I go, I don't know if someone has linked this already, but this is a collection of some fan made ideas for endings. Some of them are excellent! I personally love the one in the fourth post!
http://social.biowar...5/index/9796236

[GarrusVFan]

 Garrus has been one of the main reasons I bothered with the Mass Effect Trilogy.  I just want to say, when I first started playing Mass Effect 2, (having skipped ME1) I was very "...meh" on the game until I heard of "Archangel".  Since he sounded like the most interesting character I rushed to recruit him asap. Garrus alone kept me interested in the game long enough for me to appreciate the game and the story for itself.
(while Garrus remained the center of my attention )

I was so infatuated with him I actually restarted and created a female Shepard and never looked back after that.  Is that a little strange?  Sure, to most.  Am I the only guy to ever do such a thing?  I'm 100% sure not, just one of the only ones willing to admit it. 


Basically, what I'm getting at is that I'm beyond greatful for everything you did with him in ME 3.  You did (almost) everything I could have asked for and more with him, including the L.I. scenes, to the clever and flat-out hilarious dialogue skits with Garrus throughout the game.  All I can do is hope I get that happy ending Garrus spoke of on the Citadel and just before the final battle.  

I honestly, hope for the best, for the future, and fate of Mass Effect, regardless of what form it comes in.  A little piece of my soul depends on it.

Modifié par GarrusVFan, 22 mars 2012 - 04:41 .

[Andy the Black]

[quote]JDMiller5150 wrote...

Dude. I cant get over how this dude TOTALLY KILLS IT in this video! Basically all MY points are illustrated in this video. If you've already seen it, then share it with your friends. This guy has our back for sure.

[/quote]
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of what this guy said, except for the 'good' ending. For some reason I don't think Shep should make it through the end without consequence. Just like in the original Fallout 3 ending, The Lone Wanderer could survive the end by sacrificing one of his companions.

Modifié par Andy the Black, 22 mars 2012 - 04:40 .

[montanaxchick222]

The ending... just... ouch. I've been a supporter of Bioware for years. I started gaming a few years ago, and it was Mass Effect 2 that turned me into a hardcore gamer. Since then, I've played all three Dragon Age titles and Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3. I was astonished by the amount of interactive game play that was accomplished in the Mass Effect series. I actually liked the characters. I laughed at their jokes, cried at their pain, and shook with anger when I saw the destruction that the Reapers had caused in the universe. These games were incredible, right up until the last few minutes of Mass Effect 3.
**SPOILERS**
I said my goodbyes, and promised Kaidan (my person favorite L.I.... next being Garrus, of course) we'd find each other. Soon enough, I met Marauder Shields, and I should have stopped there. The next ten minutes were a mix of total confusion. Up on the Citadel, things start to go completely nuts. Somehow, Anderson ends up there before me, the illusive man appears out of nowhere, and I end up getting a call from Hackett (how did he know I survived? After all, right after Harbinger hit it was stated that everyone at the beam fell and no one made it... curious...) He says that the crucible isn't firing. So I wander over, and pass out.
Then, out of nowhere, the godchild appears.
Here's where I start to get mad. He tells me "Hey, Shepard, we're a necessary thing. I created the reapers, and we prune the galaxy of organics ever few thousand years so the synthetics don't destroy all of you." Then for some completely ridiculous plot-hole filled reason, he gives me the option to destroy everything they stand for. At this point, I want to be like "Hey, we CAN all get along. I just got the GETH and the QUARIANS to form an alliance. Seriously, Godchild, your logic is messed up." But no, instead I only get the option of "What can I do?" And Godchild says "Die. It will destroy the relays, no matter what your choice is. Controlling them will eventually make you sympathize with their cause, synthesis is really the only true paragon option, and destroy will make all the synthetics die." At this point, I'm looking for the "Screw this, Godchild, I'm Commander Shepard!!!!" button.... sadly there wasn't one. Instead... I got three choices. I decided on destroy, because despite the fact that I was a paragon throughout my whole 3 gameplays, this seemed like the only long-term solution. Even if it meant sacrificing EDI. So, I destroyed the reapers, I got the colored light show, the Normandy landed on some random planet, and I was like "There's no way... I made a mistake here." I looked online, and it turns out. I had no real choices. I had to accept what the godchild gave me, regardless of my choices throughout the three games. And at the end, I didn't even get to see how those choices impacted the world in the long run. After the stargazer scene I was expecting at least a text box saying "Kaidan searched for Shepard's remains..." or something to give me closure. You know, DA:O ending style. But no. I don't know what happened to all the alliances I formed. After all, everyone would be stuck in the Sol system without the relays, right? Do the Krogan tell my war-stories back on Tuchanka? Do the Quarians live happily-ever-after on their homeworld? Does Kaidan desperate search for me? The only ending I've heard that makes sense is the Indoctrination Theory. Hell, if Bioware kept the same ending (minus the Normandy crash and the relays, as neither make any sense.), and just added on from that breath scene after the destroy option with Anderson pulling you out of the rubble saying "Shepard, thank god your awake. We thought they had you there for a second!" Then continue with a better ending from there, I would be immensely happier than I am with the ending we have now. It feels incomplete, like they scrapped the real ending last-minute due to technical difficulties, and decided they might be able to wing it with whatever they had left over.
I love Mass Effect. Like I said, it made me love video games, but this ending was a serious letdown to the whole series. The whole game is based off player choice. The endings to ME1 and ME2 had HUGE decisions that were greatly impacted by your choices, where as ME3 did not.
For such a beautiful, artistic, and loved series. It did not deserve an ending that felt so weak, like it wasn't even real.
I am part of the RetakeME3 movement. I hope my input was helpful to anyone who read it, instead of destructive. And to Bioware, I have faith in you, and I know you will take all this fan input to heart. I'm backing you guys, and hoping that you'll be able to deliver an ending worthy of such a wonderful story. None the less HOLD THE LINE.

[Wolf R3ap3R]

I have played mass effect since the day ME1 came out and i have to say this is one of the most engaging torylines in any game so far. I loved how during the whole journey every choice no matter how small had an effect on the story, but that all changed with the ending. I neither hated nor loved the ending but I was left with one question what just happened? I don't mind the whole harbinger coming down and doing everything to stop you but everything after that just left me scratching my head. Then the newly introduced character that tells you that you can only do 3 things no matter your choice in the game. I'd be okay with this if their would be an explanation as to what happened. I know the people at Bioware are better than this why make an awesome game, because despite the ending Mass Effect 3 was an awesome game, and then just make an ending that seems like something they slapped on it at the last minute. Just hope Bioware gives us an answer soon.

[Cross429]

Zin wrote...

Even if the indoctrination theory proves correct... it doesn't answer the real questions most fans were interested in to begin with. So it's still a bad idea.

Here I am concerned about what my shepard will continue to do (provided that he lives.. But if he dies.. make it feel like my choice.. It's my heroic resolve. Don't force me. Should my Shepard ask someone close to him to bite the dust? Or is my Shepard man enough to face the music himself?)
I'm also interested in what my companions will continue to do. How far my previous actions extend into the future.

I don't care if Shepard was really indoctrinated. That isn't the story/question most care about. I care about the relationships my Shepard have forged. To have this ending slap you in the face in the last five minutes is just insulting to me.

It's like having a nice time at a party. Then you have an arguement with a friend and then you get punched in the face. Now you can explain that you had a nice time at the party... but the thing that sticks out from the night before was that you had an arugement with a friend and got punched in the face.

Seriously:

Have a good ending like Jaden Empire... Neverwinter Nights Hordes of the Underdark... Dragon Age Origins... Except more visually pleasing. We're in a better console generation after all.

I say it again: Mass Effect has been about making good, crystal clear choices, and then seeing the actual effects from them. It's in the title: MASS EFFECT!

Make an ending that represents this.

It's too weird to have two prequel games that are visually clunky and full of odd programing choices to the point where you just ignore the details and focus only on the dialouge/story. Then in the third installment you're suppose to pay full attention to this?

What is this? Silent Hill? No. It's Mass Effect. This is a cheesy sci-fi game with feme fatales in tighty whity space-suits, robot boobs and an over-the-top squad with colorful personalities that would never exist in real life!

Changing the style this drastically just paints me the picture of an artist that isn't comfortable with what he is serving. He gets distracted with new ideas and it becomes a giant mess. ... which it DID because 90% are unhappy.

Think you hit the nail on the head. So: the indocrination thing is kewl with a capital "K." A unique and interesting sequence that makes you question your perceptions and all that, which the devs apparently considered expanding more fully (i.e. having you lose full control of your character). But: what happened to all the decisions you made? What happened to a series based on choice and consequence?  What happened to the essential attachment to characters that the series spent uber amounts of time establishing? You're going to drop both into a climactic dream sequence and let them die a death-by-cutscene? 

You can't build a trilogy on the principles of free will and interpersonal connections, imply that both are going to result in a spectacular climax with "16 different variations," and then essentially force upon the player a single ending: "Shep was Indoctrinated - pls wait 4 dlc." If the ME series is art, then such an ending is a blindfold.

I know they thought more about this. So when they tell us to expect more, my inclination is to believe they're bringing the good stuff out early, rather than simply designing it fresh.

[Lak_Attack]

Andy the Black wrote...

I agree with a lot of what this guy said, except for the 'good' ending. For some reason I don't think Shep should make it through the end without consequence. Just like in the original Fallout 3 ending, The Lone Wanderer could survive the end by sacrificing one of his companions.

 There has already been more sacrifice in this game alone than the rest of the series combined, even if you do everything right. I think there should be a chance for Shep to die, but there should always be an alternative.

(this coming from a sucker for happy endings)

Modifié par PirateGoat, 22 mars 2012 - 04:45 .

[RevanREK]

Silvair wrote...

Honestly, I would have been okay with the ending (I only did the 3rd ending, Synthesis...then I got hit with the freezeup on start screen thing)....IF I hadn't spent the last 3 games warming up to and romancing Tali.

It was just such a massive letdown romancing her, then going through the whole Rannoch ordeal with her, only for her to just disappear right at the end, and Shepard to die, leaving her alone (if she even survived).

If Shepard wasn't seeing anyone then sure, sacrifice for the greater good. But having a Romance should have given another option for Shepard to live, because now he has someone he needs to go back to after the mission!

Completely agree, I spent the other 2 games romancing Garrus, hell, when I first played through the mission on Omega when you meet him again the first thing I did was restart the mission, just because I was so happy!! I played it through 5 or 6 times before continuing, because It was awesome! And then I found out he was romancable and it was amazing. and all throughout ME3 the romance became intense, it wasn't just, 'lets do it with a turian' anymore, it progressed, it was, 'dare I say it' beautiful, love, the last conversation with him was the saddest thing I would've ever imagined.

But I thought that it gave Shepard a future, something to live for, it gave me hope for the ending, it gave them a reason to try harder then normal... love can make you do crazy things, even survive reapers? I thought.

And then she dies, or they're seperated forever... It was horrible, and the wort part is, I know Garrus wouldnt have missed that fight for the world, he would'nt just abandoned the fight and fly off in the Normady while Shepard got all the fun... Cumon, Garrus retreating from the FINAL fight?? It was just, so out of character! 

[Warrior89]

pablosplinter wrote...

Favourite moment?

All of it tbh .......until the end

True Story