Aller au contenu

Photo

On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
23455 réponses à ce sujet

#9201
Peregrin25

Peregrin25
  • Members
  • 660 messages

Seeeg wrote...

however, it is obvious that the final act it's been cut from the game.
i mean, the final sequences are too separated from each other.
- spoiler alert -
there are toooo many details:

child that no one sees (and ghostly presence of his in the end, see 'indoctrination' on codex).
shepard shoots anderson and later have a wound in the same spot.
if you look closer in the CONTROL and SYNTHESIS ending he has husks skin and the same eyes of the illusive man.
only DESTRUCTION ending shows an alive shepard.
when shep wakes up before entering into the beam, look around, you will see trees, like from your dreams seq.
and many, many other details are there..

it was intentionally cut from the game so people can talk about it, create a big fuss and only then release dlc that fills the plot holes.
shep will wake up, finish the battle someway, citadel explode, running normandy, bla bla, bla..
that is your next downloadable content.
my bet is on april FOOLSday, ahah :)

however, hell of a game!
love everything.. except sub-quests.. feels so unreal!


You know what, wouldn't that be somthing? HAHA if your theory turned out to be  true OMG would have to be one of the bigest scale prank on the entire world by one company. Sure would be somthing haha.

LOL now you got me thinking.

#9202
Aecursis

Aecursis
  • Members
  • 2 messages
 I think the big thing for me is the complete lack of epilogue and conclusion to the series.

This was something that DA:O did very well.  While DA and ME and completely different games, it at least shows Bioware is capable of deliving a very fulfilling ending.  Now - I did dislike the ending choices and the fact that there wasn't really a "happy" ending...but I could live with that.  The problem is that nothing is explained:

1. Am I to assume that all of my squadmates lived?  What happened to everyone in the following days/months/years?
2. What happened to all of my acquantances?  Did Wrex/Jack/Miranda/etc live?
3. What happens to the Korgans?  Do they peacfully coexists with everyone or do they eventually start a war?
4. What happens to the Quarians/Humans/Asarians?
5. What happens with the Rachni?  The Collector Ship?  The Geth?
6. How do your squadmates react to Shepard's actions?  What happens with EDI/Joker?  Garrus/Tali
etc...

This, again, was something DA:O did well.  You get some nice dialogue with all of your party members and then you get 15-20 "slides" of text that explains what happens afterwards and how your actions affected the world.  Nothing even remotely close to that happens in ME3.  No epilogue, no closure, no explanations, etc.  It just abrupty ends.

#9203
Cheep Cheep Cheep

Cheep Cheep Cheep
  • Members
  • 49 messages
Since I've already posted my thoughts on the ending, here's something related to it:

Bioware reps, please stop bringing up the oh-so-good reviews ME3 got whenever you bring up fan unhappiness with the ending. It is patronizing and almost seems to imply that fan opinion is invalid in face of critical reviews.

At the end of the day, it isn't the critics buying your games, and I have to question how many of those critics A) Did not complete the game and see the endings or B) Are paid off by EA to give a favorable review.

I hope you guys have looked at the Amazon.com user reviews for ME3, or perhaps at the Metacritic score. Many of the Amazon.com reviews list the pros and cons for ME3 in detail, and there are common trends within those lists.

As for myself, I am still scratching my head over the sloppy, nonsensical ending a week after I have finished it. I'm still having trouble understanding how it was green-lighted, unless it was just rushed out the door.

#9204
CuseGirl

CuseGirl
  • Members
  • 1 613 messages

Unfallen_Satan wrote...
I hope whatever you guys are planning, you are not going to make something like "Shepard wakes up, realizes he has been hallucinating, then goes to the Citadel for real to active the Crucible so all Reapers will be destroyed and everyone lives happily ever after..." That would be a shame.


I have a feeling that's exactly what's going to happen.....

Cheep Cheep Cheep wrote...

As for myself, I am still scratching my head over the sloppy, nonsensical ending a week after I have finished it. I'm still having trouble understanding how it was green-lighted, unless it was just rushed out the door.

 

What's disappointing is I know that most of the people who worked on this game, from programming, to graphics, the voice actors and directors, they worked their TAILS off. I know they did. But the ending all comes down to the writer and the group of people who approved that writing. How could those endings go to print without at least 5 directors/producers/execs who had played the game approving the content? And REALLY look at the content and say "yea, this is how the game should end".....This game is too BIG, too popular, too rich to end like this: this isn't some obscure thing, it's the Mass Effect series. 

Modifié par CuseGirl, 22 mars 2012 - 02:27 .


#9205
Shadrak17

Shadrak17
  • Members
  • 29 messages

CuseGirl wrote...

Unfallen_Satan wrote...
I hope whatever you guys are planning, you are not going to make something like "Shepard wakes up, realizes he has been hallucinating, then goes to the Citadel for real to active the Crucible so all Reapers will be destroyed and everyone lives happily ever after..." That would be a shame.


I have a feeling that's exactly what's going to happen.....


And would that be so bad?????
It is way better than the ending now. I would love it if they did that. 

#9206
Seeeg

Seeeg
  • Members
  • 24 messages

Peregrin25 wrote...

Seeeg wrote...

however, it is obvious that the final act it's been cut from the game.
i mean, the final sequences are too separated from each other.
- spoiler alert -
there are toooo many details:

child that no one sees (and ghostly presence of his in the end, see 'indoctrination' on codex).
shepard shoots anderson and later have a wound in the same spot.
if you look closer in the CONTROL and SYNTHESIS ending he has husks skin and the same eyes of the illusive man.
only DESTRUCTION ending shows an alive shepard.
when shep wakes up before entering into the beam, look around, you will see trees, like from your dreams seq.
and many, many other details are there..

it was intentionally cut from the game so people can talk about it, create a big fuss and only then release dlc that fills the plot holes.
shep will wake up, finish the battle someway, citadel explode, running normandy, bla bla, bla..
that is your next downloadable content.
my bet is on april FOOLSday, ahah :)

however, hell of a game!
love everything.. except sub-quests.. feels so unreal!


You know what, wouldn't that be somthing? HAHA if your theory turned out to be  true OMG would have to be one of the bigest scale prank on the entire world by one company. Sure would be somthing haha.

LOL now you got me thinking.


of course it is true!
see this:


i think that it's pretty obvious..
commander shepard, the only person that has been exposed at so much reaper tech and can resist indoctrination?
naah, it can't fit. especially with bioware writers.. remeber the strange object recovered from "arrival" dlc?

they say that the dlc is necessary to understand the start of the 3rd episode.
of course it is, because i bet that this is when all this indoctrination thing start.. shep slowly falls into reaper control.. the final act is where harbinger tries to take control of your mind.

the end it's already written and will come with next dlc.
FINISH THE FIGHT!   AHA  :P

#9207
SeanBahamut

SeanBahamut
  • Members
  • 419 messages
The ending was fine up until the moment Shep was radio'd to be told the Crucible hadn't done anything. After that its just one big mess (as the 369 pages of this discussion probably testify, I'm not going to read it all)

#9208
JediMB

JediMB
  • Members
  • 695 messages
Copying and pasting from my blog here...


To preface this post, I'd like to say a couple of things about me and my relationship with BioWare's games, which I've played since Knights of the Old Republic brought me in via my love for the Star Wars universe.

I've never been one for participating in boycotts or similar organized efforts. Yes, I've participated in the Fight For The Love group that asked for more homosexual romance options for Mass Effect 3, but that issue alone was never going to decide whether or not I would purchase the game. I've always figured that I'll buy the games I want, and if they're not for me for one reason or another I'll simply leave them be.

I've also been there to defend BioWare and Electronic Arts when I've felt others were overreacting to
development and marketing decisions. I was there with my pre-orders for Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 2: Collector's Edition, Dragon Age II: BioWare Signature Edition, Star Wars: The Old Republic - Collector's Edition, and Mass Effect 3: N7 Collector's Edition.

Yet here I am, among a legion of upset and/or angry BioWare fans who are protesting critical development decisions made for the final part of the Mass Effect trilogy. Rest assured, most of the game was absolutely fantastic, despite the doubts I had about the Crucible plot device introduced at the beginning of the game. It would certainly be my preference that the entire Crucible project was changed into an extension of the fleet-building process that the entire game focused on. But I can stand the presence of an ancient superweapon being introduced in the final part of the trilogy as long as its use in the big finale is properly executed. Which it is
not.

The ending, as it has been since release, can most easily be described as heartbreaking. It manages, it seems, to do the exact opposite of what one would expect. It creates more questions rather than delivers answers. It is a source of anxiety and unfulfillment rather than closure. It forces you to accept someone else's terms when you've set out to reach victory on your own. It just plain fails to make sense within the context of the series' lore and themes. It is not a bittersweet ending as much as it is simply bitter.

The ending has failed to the point where I'm doubting if I'll ever want to actually replay the game, or its predecessors. And this is coming from someone who has played through Mass Effect 1 and 2 at least four times each.

PRIMARY PROBLEMS

To start, Mass Effect 3's ending disregards and undermines choices made throughout the series. With the exception of the moment you're given to talk to former and current squad mates in the resistance HQ in London, all your choices are basically condensed into the number that is your Effective Military Strength. Then, in the end, every player is presented with the same color-coded choices that are completely disconnected from the choices and themes you were presented with earlier. All ending variants have roughly the same devastating consequences, and seem to all be designed to sabotage the player's past efforts.

Then there's the seemingly changing purpose of the Crucible. Throughout the game, even when talking to the
Prothean VI Vendetta near the end, you are given the impression that the Crucible was meant to utilize the Catalyst for its own purposes, but once you do reach the Catalyst it somehow turns out to be the other way around: the Citadel/Catalyst utilizes the Crucible to modify its own capabilities in ways that are more than a
little hard to swallow.

Lastly, there's the fallacies of the Catalyst that is introduced in the very final minutes of the game. Not only is
its existence entirely inappropriate for the series, especially as a thing introduced simply to tell you what your options are at the very end, but its motivation is highly flawed. It asserts that synthetics will always strive to eradicate all organics, when all the evidence presented throughout the series seems to point towards that only being applicable to the Reapers... even if the Reapers do it a few species at a time every 50,000 years. It's just not a motivation that works for the Reapers.

We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You
exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand
it.
--Sovereign


The Catalyst claims that the Reapers exist to save organic life from synthetic life, but if you go back to
Mass Effect 1 and 2 and listen to Sovereign and Harbinger, you'll find that they express distaste for organic life.
Sovereign says that organic life is chaotic and a genetic accident, whereas Harbinger later concludes
that humanity is the only sentient species worth ascending into Reaper form. Whatever their purpose, it clearly is not to save organics from synthetics.

Your worlds will become our laboratories.
--Harbinger


The Catalyst's solutions don't make much sense either, and the re-colored ending sequences showing them off are just abysmal. Destroying the Reapers is one thing, but how are a series of shockwaves seemingly capable of distinguishing synthetic life and implants from other occurrences of metals, minerals, plastics and electrical/magnetic charges? This sounds more like magic than any kind of science to me, and that only gets worse in the Synthesis ending... which also spits life's celebrated diversity in the face. The only truly believable ending is the Control one, but choosing The Illusive Man's path is hardly a desirable ending to many players.

As a final note, the destruction of all mass relays seems impossible when you consider how Primary (paired) and
Secondary (multidirectional) relays work. Primary relay pairs should be entirely unaffected by the chain reaction, since they can only connect to each other, and Secondary relays wouldn't likely be able to transmit to all other nearby relays due to their own destruction after passing the beam from the Citadel on to the next relay. (If relay A connects to relay B, C and D, relay A would be destroyed after passing the signal on to relay B, but relay B is probably out of range for relay C and D.)

SECONDARY PROBLEMS

The first time the game made me pause and wonder what the hell was going on was when I finished the assault on Cronos Station - the Cerberus base. Being told that the Catalyst was actually the Citadel was one thing, but finding out moments later that the Citadel had been taken to Earth by the Reapers. How is that even possible?

Mass Effect 1 established that the Sovereign couldn't get anyone onboard the Citadel without the Conduit on Ilos, so how did they do this now? And how was the Citadel moved to Earth? It seems too big to be able to travel via mass relays, and it would certainly take it quite some time to make it to Earth via regular FTL? Furthermore, how
does this new Conduit in London work? How does it transport people into the Citadel without a receiver relay, and why would it transport people and corpses into a previously unseen area that (on top of looking more like a mesh between human and Shadow Broker tech) is for some reason directly connected to another control panel like
the one in the Council chambers?

Wouldn't it have made more sense if the Reapers had salvaged the Prothean Conduit from Ilos, and had people transported into the Presidium, which in turn is only a short trip from the Council chambers' controls?

CLOSING STATEMENTS

I realize fully that there's no way to get a "perfect" ending, but it's really hard to wrap my head around how the current ending was even considered; much less approved. I've heard about how script changes were made, and the writing team was basically scrambling to piece something new together with both time and ideas running out. It just saddens me immensely that this is how the most epic space opera conceived could end on such an unfitting note.

I'm not going to pretend that it's just the continuity errors, though. Or the way the game goes from a plot device
(The Crucible), to a MacGuffin (The Catalyst), and suddenly veers into a Diabolus Ex Nihilo (The Catalyst being the "Star Child"). I'll openly admit that I wanted my little piece of a happy ending too. I know, I know, saving what remains of the Earth and the rest of the galaxy is a happy thing in itself, but like I said... Mass Effect is a space
opera
. It's as much about the characters and their relationships as it is about saving the galaxy.

Having played through the entire Mass Effect trilogy, I feel deeply invested in its characters. Maybe too much so, because as I took in Mass Effect 3's ending I felt truly pathetic for caring so much about Joker and EDI, Garrus and Tali, that brandy I was supposed to share with Chakwas, and not least how Shepard and Liara had promised each other they were going to get through this and have their little blue children. This is why I felt betrayed. No matter how well I did, Shepard's life was not in my own hands anymore, and I felt that last-minute plot twists were destroying all I had fought for just for the hell of it.

And there wasn't even a proper epilogue to console me. It was just me and my nihilism.

I don't hate BioWare. I don't want to be angry or disappointed with them. I guess I expected bittersweet endings more akin to those in Dragon Age: Origins, where self-sacrifice was one of many decisions, and where I felt that the world actually had things for me to look forward to. As I'm typing the very end of this post, I've just read Dr. Muzyka's statement on the future of the game's ending, and I have hope that they'll soon be able to rekindle my trust in them.

Modifié par JediMB, 22 mars 2012 - 02:56 .


#9209
Mistress Melon

Mistress Melon
  • Members
  • 49 messages
Dear Bioware,

I want a game where my choices matter and I have the option of having a happy ending. I think the ending in ME2 was done very well, if I take enough time to prepare my crew long enough, I can save us all and have a happy ending. I am not saying that a happy ending needs to be the default ending, but I think players that worked hard enough on it should be able to earn it. That being said, we were promised an ending that reflected our choices since ME1. Therefore, the endings have to be unique to our Shepard and I don't think doing so would be that hard. Every decision you did or did not make could simply be shown with a cutscene on how that decision made an impact. For example, if you solved the geth/quarian war then you should get a cutscene of the two species re-building the homeworld together. If not, you can show a cutscene on how the quarians continued to live on the flotilla. It's important that each ending is individualized so that everyone takes home the message that their Shepard accomplished this.

#9210
magnutz06

magnutz06
  • Members
  • 252 messages
The one fact even BW cant argue is that all allies and assets are missing from the finale. Why spend three games to unite a galaxy and its best tech only to have them missing when Shep takes back earth. At the very least cameos other than the general flotilla shot would have been nice.

#9211
Peregrin25

Peregrin25
  • Members
  • 660 messages

Seeeg wrote...

of course it is true!
see this:


i think that it's pretty obvious..
commander shepard, the only person that has been exposed at so much reaper tech and can resist indoctrination?
naah, it can't fit. especially with bioware writers.. remeber the strange object recovered from "arrival" dlc?

they say that the dlc is necessary to understand the start of the 3rd episode.
of course it is, because i bet that this is when all this indoctrination thing start.. shep slowly falls into reaper control.. the final act is where harbinger tries to take control of your mind.

the end it's already written and will come with next dlc.
FINISH THE FIGHT!   AHA  :P


Yeah you make a solid point. Now that I think about it Harbinger hasn't been destroyed. The collecter prothian hybrid he controlled in ME2 was just a shell. There technically is so much more really.

Modifié par Peregrin25, 22 mars 2012 - 02:36 .


#9212
Spherical Puma

Spherical Puma
  • Members
  • 7 messages
First time posting my thoughts (I'm sure you're all dying to hear them :) ) on the topic of the endings.

Obviously we all know what's wrong with the endings (those that think they're wrong to begin with) and the common misconception is that we gamers wanted a happy ending, which is ridiculous. I expected Shepard to die.

Having said that, here's what I think. I, like many people, believe Bioware/EA planned for this to happen and that they were always going to release DLC later to explain just what was going on. Yes, I believe they were going to charge you to get a clearer explanation of the ending you just watched.

However, I don't think they thought there would be this much backlash, and so it got me thinking as to what they'd do. They obviously can't release the DLC and charge for it as it would cause more of an outrage. So here's what I think will happen.

Let's say the upcoming DLC pack was the mission that explained everything, some new guns, new outfits, and new multiplayer maps. I say they're going to strip everything but the mission out of the DLC and release only the mission as free DLC. That way they satisfy the fans and they can then release the other parts in another DLC pack (though if they were smart they'd wait a few weeks) and get money (though albeit probably not as much) that they were expecting from the end-mission DLC.

Just thought I'd share.

#9213
CuseGirl

CuseGirl
  • Members
  • 1 613 messages
When I first played the ending sequence, landing in the red-lit hallway of the Citadel, I thought for only a SPLIT second "is this real"? But I never concluded without a doubt that "oh yea, this is a dream". I simply took the ending sequence as "this is actually happening, i'm actually crawling thru a closed up Citadel".....smh....if the writers wanted us to think it was a dream, why didnt they transport Shepard back to the forrest where we were absolutely sure we were having a dream? That would have been unquestionable because "Dark Forest + little boy + black shadows = dream sequence that we were aware of the whole game"

Instead, they take us into an indoctrination dream and expect us to be aware of it? While Shepard had been exposed to Reaper tech for quite some time now, we haven't had to actively fight indoctrination at any point in ME-2 or 99% of ME-3. I can't comment on ME-1 because I'm a PS3 user, sorry.

#9214
Peregrin25

Peregrin25
  • Members
  • 660 messages

Spherical Puma wrote...

First time posting my thoughts (I'm sure you're all dying to hear them :) ) on the topic of the endings.

Obviously we all know what's wrong with the endings (those that think they're wrong to begin with) and the common misconception is that we gamers wanted a happy ending, which is ridiculous. I expected Shepard to die.

Having said that, here's what I think. I, like many people, believe Bioware/EA planned for this to happen and that they were always going to release DLC later to explain just what was going on. Yes, I believe they were going to charge you to get a clearer explanation of the ending you just watched.

However, I don't think they thought there would be this much backlash, and so it got me thinking as to what they'd do. They obviously can't release the DLC and charge for it as it would cause more of an outrage. So here's what I think will happen.

Let's say the upcoming DLC pack was the mission that explained everything, some new guns, new outfits, and new multiplayer maps. I say they're going to strip everything but the mission out of the DLC and release only the mission as free DLC. That way they satisfy the fans and they can then release the other parts in another DLC pack (though if they were smart they'd wait a few weeks) and get money (though albeit probably not as much) that they were expecting from the end-mission DLC.

Just thought I'd share.


You know, you could still have a happy ending with Shepard dead. just a thought I had about that first part of your post :).

#9215
Omnike

Omnike
  • Members
  • 284 messages

cedgedc wrote...

Tezzajh wrote...

O yes you are really listning but not to us, in every statement that comes from bioware there is constant mentioning of how great the critics have claimed it to be but why? we all know it was a good game no one said it was rubbish, we say the ending is rubbish which effects the whole game.

and for God sake stop calling yourselfs artists, artists are people who use a paintbrush who express passion. You are being paid to write a script . money does not create true art


You sir, are short sighted.


I agree. They poured their heart and soul into the game (save maybe the last ten minutes) and it was something they were passionate about. Art is not limited to a paint brush. And even if that was the case, money has still created true art.

#9216
Johnathonm

Johnathonm
  • Members
  • 16 messages
I miss Harbinger's banter :(

#9217
uke2se

uke2se
  • Members
  • 14 messages
Guys, I don't think the "indoctrination theory" is the only way to salvage this. Nor do I think the "destroy" option would be the best one. Shepard could simply call the god-child on his bluff, because that's what I see it as. What the god-child says is nothing but a bunch of lies, as evidenced by what Shepard has achieved. Call the brat on his BS and un-frack the situation. That's what Shepard does best.

#9218
Unlimited69x

Unlimited69x
  • Members
  • 129 messages
I hope Bioware is still reading this topic and listening to why we feel this way.

#9219
steej

steej
  • Members
  • 396 messages
Dear BioWare,

I honestly think someone at your office needs to watch this;


I have been against the "change it 'cos we don't like it" crowd up until now.

This video puts forward every complaint/concern in a very clear, constructive (if often humorous) way.
I think this distils the community’s feelings perfectly into a 20 min vid.

As I've said before I was happy with the ending and honestly didn’t agree with the complaints but you cannot ignore the points raised in this vid.

Please, please watch it.
Image IPB

Modifié par steej, 22 mars 2012 - 02:53 .


#9220
CuseGirl

CuseGirl
  • Members
  • 1 613 messages
I'm not gonna lie, I have one foot in the "happy ending group". But only if I collected a ****e load of war assets. I thought if I didn't enough war assets, I could stop the Reapers but Shepard would die. But in this last game, I had 99% galactic readiness, 6599 EMS, and I really expected to one day walk up or beam down to whatever place Miranda was hiding out at and plant the biggest kiss on her face....or at least see her standing on top of hill and smiling at me....but instead I got a dude laying in rubble and single breath? smh.....not after all that galaxy scanning.....

#9221
Ck213

Ck213
  • Members
  • 163 messages
I'm so flummoxed by  the ending that my favorite moment isn't coming to mind. There was indeed a lot to like in the first 90% of the game. I played my first shep and experienced all three endings with that character. I'm on my second (renegade this time). I'll come back with my favorite experiences.

#9222
Guest_Paulomedi_*

Guest_Paulomedi_*
  • Guests
My last two hours with ME3:

1"59' = yay, Cerberus Base, final confrontation with Illusive Man!

1"30' = Kai Leng defeated! Where's Illusive Man, so I can control Cerberus and send them to fight Reapers?

1"10' = no Illusive Man, but ok, whatever, let's go to Earth!

50' = Well, this is feeling too linear...It's very good, but, where are my war assests so I can command them?

35' = Good! After defending this missile battery, they will launch the suicide mission!

20' = Geez! Harbinger just hit me and it's flying away??? Where were my War Assets to help me in Battle???

15' = What on Earth TIM is doing here???? Why he's spewing dialogue and dying like Saren??

10' = Who is this God Child kid? Where is the dialogue wheel?

0' = What? What???? WHAAAAT???? This is it??? Five years of gaming....for this????????

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Modifié par Paulomedi, 22 mars 2012 - 03:04 .


#9223
leventegl

leventegl
  • Members
  • 5 messages
 A music, what i wrote, called Retake Mass Effect 3 Theme
 Enjoy! 

#9224
shephard987

shephard987
  • Members
  • 171 messages
Good morning everyone.
Kansas City signing in here.
When I woke up, I did my usual routine of checking articles on the web about this situation.
I've found a few.
I would appreciate it if you visited these articles and commented
on them in a civil and well respected manner.
Here are the following.

http://www.foxnews.c...r-furious-fans/

http://www.rpgsite.n...ing-controversy

http://www.lazygamer...idiots-bioware/

If someone would also like to fill me in on what's been happening, I would appreciate it.
The last time I was here, not even 7 hours ago (I know, I don't sleep well these days...)
we were 50 some pages behind this one.

PLEASE GO TO THESE ARTICLES AND VOICE YOUR OPINION AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
DON"T LET ACCUSATIONS WIN OVER REASON
Cheers everyone.
I'll be ghosting around here just so that I won't get on everyone's nerves.
Carry on.

EDIT

NEW ARTICLE

http://sydhit.com/20...stic-integrity/

PLEASE CHECK THIS ONE AS WELL

#9225
dfstone

dfstone
  • Members
  • 602 messages
They don't need to make a new ending. They just have to explain what happened to our crew and what the result of our decisions was and I'll be happy.