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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#9376
Hue of Bone

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Cobretti ftw wrote...

Hue of Bone wrote...

Further to my earlier post I had the following thought.

All the home-world planets, Palaven, Sur'kesh, Tuchanka, Rannoch, Thessia possess Mass

Relays in their systems. So with the A,B,C ending, where the Mass Relays are all destroyed, you

are also destroying all the home-worlds of your allies. So it negates all the work in solving the

various problems and gaining the said allies in the first place.

This cannot be right!


haha imagine omega system with 2 relays


Now we will not get 'The Retaking of Omega' dlc

#9377
hchadw

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Hue of Bone wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...

Hue of Bone wrote...

Further to my earlier post I had the following thought.

All the home-world planets, Palaven, Sur'kesh, Tuchanka, Rannoch, Thessia possess Mass

Relays in their systems. So with the A,B,C ending, where the Mass Relays are all destroyed, you

are also destroying all the home-worlds of your allies. So it negates all the work in solving the

various problems and gaining the said allies in the first place.

This cannot be right!


haha imagine omega system with 2 relays


Now we will not get 'The Retaking of Omega' dlc



how about (Game Finished and Tested with actual ending) DLC

Modifié par hchadw, 22 mars 2012 - 08:18 .


#9378
xaurabh123

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hchadw wrote...

Hue of Bone wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...

Hue of Bone wrote...

Further to my earlier post I had the following thought.

All the home-world planets, Palaven, Sur'kesh, Tuchanka, Rannoch, Thessia possess Mass

Relays in their systems. So with the A,B,C ending, where the Mass Relays are all destroyed, you

are also destroying all the home-worlds of your allies. So it negates all the work in solving the

various problems and gaining the said allies in the first place.

This cannot be right!


haha imagine omega system with 2 relays


Now we will not get 'The Retaking of Omega' dlc



how about (Game Finished and Tested with actual ending) DLC

right

#9379
Crazywolf77

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There were a lot of great moments within all 3 Mass Effect games. More than I could count. The Suicide Mission of ME2 and the soundtrack haunted me for weeks. And it made me buy almost every dlc blindly.

But all I can think of since I finished the trilogy is.....that I experienced all these moments only to make Joker able to literally f*** the Normandy........

#9380
AkaXan

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Mass Effect 3 is the best and worst of the 3. It improves the TPS mechanics, adds a nice amount of customisation to weapons and such, the ME3 world looks great with sound design being a true highlight, small annoyances like the mining have been streamlined and the main quest is one of the best campaigns out there.When ME3 gets it right, the game sores, Mordins death is bittersweet, heroic and funny. While Thane will never be heroic to me, with his killing for money. His actions paint a being absolutely determined to leave the world a better place before he dies and the fight reflects that along with his words. Truly great stuff.

With all that said, ME3 destroys the core function of the series. The players decisions made throughout the 3 games are sidelined at best and at worst completely ignored at the end with 3 calls to make, all much the same in effect with none reflecting the players input, nor for that matter the games own logic it built up throughout the trilogy.
I got the best ending, I did everything in ME3 I got 7000 worth of war assets and a 100% war readyness. I got peace with the Geth and The Qurians. I cured the genophage, got the Turiens and the Grogan onside, Saved the Rachni twice, Got the illusive man to end himself just be talking him down and for what exactly. Was my femshep battling against all odds, with the outlook bleak, until the disparate groups I gathered arrived to turn the tide and show the reapers that all sentient life would stand together at the end, nope, none of that happened instead, I got endless waves of enemies for a final battle and then 3 choices that tore away all the work I put into the series, hell if you follow the games logic the endings kill the ME universe, with no relay travel possible, earth on its death bed and most of the fleets stranded in earth space with no way of getting home. Then there is the crazy part with Jeff and the Normandy crashing on a distant planet with all your team apparently onboard, with no way of ever leaving that planet.

I'm sure devs will say it all about artistic vision and all that. I'm sure people will say its all about the journey not the destination. Both are wrong. As an artist myself, artistic vision is not a get out of jail free card, to use when nobody agrees with you that your work is perfect and doesn't need to change to get closer to what you the artist originally promised. As for the journey, yes it could be the best road trip of your life, but if the journey takes you off a cliff, your damn well going to remember the end of the journey more than the anything else and its the same with ME3. Nobody is saying that the devs need to tie up everything (need something for a sequal), nor do the need to give completely happy endings, but if I like many other players put the work in we should at least get better than what we got which was nothing.

I'm a great believer in a story well told and that includes a solid ending. It doesn't have to answer everything, but it dose need to be treated like its the only shot you get a telling it right, so give a satisfying end and the worry about more stories later.

I'm a PS3 ME player. I took a chance on ME2 and loved the game. My friend even sent over his 360 and ME1 so I could get my ME fix while I waited for ME3. It just seems all so rushed at the end or worse like it was thrown away for some short sighted artistic notion, as if to prove something.  I think its tenuis ground now for everyone now, Bioware have lost out on an oppertunity to really shine in gamers eyes and now whenever players feel like playing the games again they will remmember the end and how all their investment, decisions and such, were all just thrown aside for a frankly nonsense conclusion to great series and just not bother. I deffinetly will have trubble mustering enthusasim.

There also the murky waters of charging us for a better ending DLC or something like that. I'm one of the few that dont have a problem with DLC if its done right with care, but if we have to pay to get clarity to a world that us fans invested in. All that says is back away and never trust that you get the full game anymore. I know Bioware havent said anything about charging for ending DLC or even if they will try and change things, but i will plead now make new endings free with the first DLC, it would go along way to fixing things and then roll out whatever pay for DLC you want.

I feel I should clarify I loved the ME games, I'm just more than a little saddened that things have kinda gone south with what should have been a great colmination of player investment, great writng and game design from Bioware were our decisions gave us an ending we earned, the endings couldve have still lead in the direction with what you guys at Bioware wanted. I just really dont want to se the day gamers pick up a Bioware game from the shelf and than put it back thinking that it wont be worth at the end. Again this is not a rant or personnal attack on anyone, just a guy trying to get some thoughts out there and maybe get some peace of mind.
Sorry for the long post, guys. Regards, AkaXanImage IPB

Modifié par AkaXan, 22 mars 2012 - 08:26 .


#9381
kelloggG

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I'm kind of torn about the ending. The plot holes and other issues already covered extensively leave me quite puzzled. For example, on the final mission, Liara was with me (my love interest as well). When I woke up dazed and struggling, I heard the message everyone was killed. It was actually a very emotional moment, as I realized I had just signed my lover's death warrant. It was my fault she was dead. But luckily she was magically transported to the Normandy. (?) Whew. There are certainly holes in the plot and some flaws in the story and writing, but the more I think about it, and I am afraid to say this...

I like the ending. Not that I think it is perfect, but it doesn't enrage me.

I do believe that Bioware did not live up to promises made to fans. The image on the first page and the quote with it sums that up much more eloquently than I could ever hope. I am very invested in the Mass Effect story, and like many fans, after playing several playthroughs and learning all I could about the universe, played a final time from ME1 all the way through ME2 to build my "canon" Shep for ME3, ready to see "my" ending. At first I hated the end. I reloaded and tried a different end. Then the third. And I couldn't believe nothing changed! I was angry, let down, and confused.

It was the same way I felt when I finished the Dark Tower series. It seemed innapropriate and cheap. But the more I thought about it, the more the end made sense.

I began examining the ME3 story the same way. The end of the game isn't the end of the story- the entire game is the ending of the story. In fact, I think Shep's story ends before he or she gets to the Citadel. After that is an epilogue- the consequense of Shep's journey. Maybe the complexity of having so many endings was more than Bioware intended, and as they began the project, they had the best intentions that reality eventually denied. But as I looked back on my playthrough of ME3, so much of the story was wrapped up in mostly satisfying ways. A couple moments were incredible. Mordin's heroic death stunned me. Having Rachni workers for the crucible justified my belief in not exterminating the species. And so on.

When I got to the Citadel at the end, I did feel like Shep had impacted the Galaxy in truly heroic and epic ways. The story had ended. There was only one more thing...

I would have liked more variety, to see more of what happened after, to have an end that left the remains of civilization with the relays, etc. It did feel a bit like a "kobayashi maru" scenario- my choices really didn't matter. And having one end where Shep could have lived in the face of insurmountable odds would have been hugely satisfying.

But I thought about watching Shep fading away next to Anderson, when Hackett comes on and Shep says, "What do you need me to do." What a heroic drive! And then there was no "Win now" button- it seemed like a dead end! It couldn't possibly end like that...

Who invented the "child?" and other questions would be nice to have answers to, and I think much of the disappointment in the ending stems from the fact that most fans didn't want just a good ending, they wanted an ending that a) explained what happened, B) finalized the story in detail, c) was unique to their Shep, and (maybe) d) allowed a "happy" outcome to reward Shep for his or her hard work. They wanted the story wrapped up neatly.

But I don't think the story is about Shep, it is about Shep's impact on history. Throughout the games, you have never fought for fame and glory. You have fought for freedom and survival. You accomplished something that not even countless races could accomplish, and broke the cycle.

There are definitely let downs in the ending, but I think mainly because the ending didn't fit with my own preconceptions. Before the ending, I had so many stories and possibilities in my head, and that made the story even grander than it actually was. A good story does engage the reader or viewer to participate (not in the sense of playing a game, but in creating and filling in between the lines).

I want to say again- my main disappointment with the ending and with the game is that Bioware did not deliver a truly "unique" experience. I felt that while the storylines and my actions were wrapped up, and I got to see many consequences of my actions, and it was satisfying to see them, it left me feeling I had merely played a good, fun game- not that I had completed a unique and epic journey.

ME3 as an entire game is a nice finale to the story. I do wish that the ending was a bit different, but I wish that about many stories. Lost, BSG, Sopranos, The Dark Tower series... But I feel like Shep was a true hero.

You will notice in this post I have never said "my Shep." As I just said, I felt that Shep was a hero, but that it didn't really matter that it was "my" Shep- Shep was a hero with or without me. That is the biggest disappointment.

#9382
Skaan

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just to be clear i'm a big fan of ME, but i don't want Shep like Chuk Norris on Harbringer, i will want a DLL or patch with an expansion. you like actual ending (2% 1379)? fine don't download DLC, you dislike the Endig lke 91% of customer (60203 now)? download it
People want to know wath happened to all
Spiderman 3 is a blame? your opinion
With this ending why i would pay a new DLC for new mission?
Why play multiplayer?
With single campaign only i've 11k war asset.
Why i've saved rachni? for 100 point? where are the Rachni Ship?
in DA hero can die, but it is a great ending!

#9383
FOX216BC

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I want the chance (choice) to fight the reapers to my last breath.
With shepard living or dying at the end, depending on my choices.
An ending that even Master chief would say "Now that's how you finish the fight"

Modifié par FOX216BC, 22 mars 2012 - 08:26 .


#9384
Shad Croly

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Probably my favorite Mass Effect moment?

Well... aside from putting my foot through Saren's head, getting everyone in and out of the Suicide Mission without a single death, and just generally being a nice-guy Paragon whenever I could...

My favorite moment was when I smashed  Kai Leng's sword in half with my fist and sent that bastard to hell with an Omni-Blade to the heart for killing Thane.

#9385
Cobra's_back

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NikolaiShade wrote...

@ghostbusters101

Sorry mate, I don't think given theese endings someone should care about Shepard. Destroying the relays and stranding the fleet in Sol system he became the bad guy, not a hero.


@Vakarian89

We'll find out at PAX, one way or the other

 You didn't get the point. If indoctrination is happening the kid is lying. It didn't happen. Relays were not destroyed. My point is that BW needs to clarify so that everyone understands what actually happened.

#9386
Tezzajh

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Is there any point getting upset at this point? in alot of ways mass effect 3 ending is exactly like mass effect 2 ending but with more effort put into it. In Mass effect 2 we had a choice of ending, we could be lazy and do nothing and get the bad ending where everyone dies but they still cannoned the ending so shep lives but we didnt now about this for a while. Now in mass effect 3 we can be lazy and get a bad ending but we can also choose a bad ending even if we wernt lazy. However the good ending is still there 5000 war asets+destruction= shep alive and peace, whats to say they wont cannon this ending? therefore closure to LI is uncessary, after all theres alot pointing towards a shep mass effect 4/ expansion or aftermath dlc. I know the MASS EFFECT trilogy is over but it doesnt mean a new triolgy cant begin (Halo). after all carrying on the name mass effect when there are no more mass effect relays will sound dumb.

#9387
ArkOllie

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Please Bioware, get rid of the "Starchild". The concept is stupid and I don't think anyone really likes it. I would rather have a "pre-body EDI" looking image talking to us. Also don't make the DLC cost money, you lost a lot of credibility with the day 1 dlc, don't lose more by having a ending dlc which costs money too.

Modifié par ArkOllie, 22 mars 2012 - 08:27 .


#9388
AwefulShot

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Not that I'm annoyed by this. But it is slightly hypocritical to complain about breaches of cannon when the way guns worked changed from ME1 to ME2 and people liked the change! Bit hard to see how, even if a 'new' tech in guns was developed that it could replace every weapon in the galaxy in a few months completely... Was there like "Trade your old gun for new" deal going down?

Another patch required... (that was a joke btw).

Modifié par AwefulShot, 22 mars 2012 - 08:30 .


#9389
BCMakoto

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ghostbusters101 wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

@ghostbusters101

Sorry mate, I don't think given theese endings someone should care about Shepard. Destroying the relays and stranding the fleet in Sol system he became the bad guy, not a hero.


@Vakarian89

We'll find out at PAX, one way or the other

 You didn't get the point. If indoctrination is happening the kid is lying. It didn't happen. Relays were not destroyed. My point is that BW needs to clarify so that everyone understands what actually happened.


Well, let us look at the indoc theory. Possible true...but do you think Bioware would wait that long to announce it when hell breaks lose on their forum?

#9390
TheCinC

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hchadw wrote...
Its the art to make losts of cash fast and end a franchise quickly so they can move onto the Cash Cow that EA wants them to do............ this broke MULTIPLAYER!


No, that's exactly what they never intended, they never intended to finish the franchise quickly. I'm quite certain they decided to put a cliffhanger in ME3 that would allow for DLC/sequels. That way they could postpone finishing the franchise and keep people interested with more certainty. I'm also thinking it was a management decision at some level, not a decision by the developers/writers, who had planned for a trilogy all along. This decision backfired, Bioware surely sees that now, judging by the confirmation that they are working towards new content to change the way things are. They just don't want us to be too critical as they are a company and they can't afford to take a huge hit and because it hurts after doing 95% of the job right. Quite possibly, this new content was already under development, which is how they would be able to deliver it in April. That would probably be impossible if they had to scramble to create it from scratch. There certainly are allusions to it here and there.

Personally, I don't like this way of doing business, but I mostly dislike we weren't told! We were led to believe this was a full fledged game that would resolve everything! I'm pretty sure the writers wanted it to be, but someone was scared about ending the franchise and decided differently, despite all previous information that ME3 would be the end, the grand finale of an epic journey spanning three games. Breaking up ME3 in the main game and DLC for the main story is something I don't like, but if they had at least been clear on this, we could've made an informed decision before buying the game. Now, we are left with so many questions and have to wait for Bioware to finish a patch/DLC.

However, I am quite hopeful that they will now commit to delivering -exactly- what they had planned originally and what most of us long for, an epic ending with several different scenarios that will do justice to ME! For free, of course, as should have been part of the full price game we all paid for. If they deliver and if they promise never to pull something like this again, I'll gladly shell out for additional DLC and be interested in sequels provided those are of equal size and quality. If they actually make the multiplayer option interesting (imagine playing ME-style missions with friends instead of defeating wave after waves of Cerberus troops/Geth/Reapers) then I'd be interested in seeing that as well. Perhaps even a spin off where I can wage war in space. But until I know there is a true, epic ending to this story, what is the point? I am actually starting to gain hope a litle and have now begun playing ME1 again, with the intention to this time keep Kaidan alive, whom I had killed on Virmire. Of course, I'm not interested in Kaidan over Ashley, but Ashley is kind of a **** and I want Kaidan's Reave power to add to my own powers. :P

Modifié par TheCinC, 22 mars 2012 - 08:38 .


#9391
Cobra's_back

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LPKerberos wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

@ghostbusters101

Sorry mate, I don't think given theese endings someone should care about Shepard. Destroying the relays and stranding the fleet in Sol system he became the bad guy, not a hero.


@Vakarian89

We'll find out at PAX, one way or the other

 You didn't get the point. If indoctrination is happening the kid is lying. It didn't happen. Relays were not destroyed. My point is that BW needs to clarify so that everyone understands what actually happened.


Well, let us look at the indoc theory. Possible true...but do you think Bioware would wait that long to announce it when hell breaks lose on their forum?


I agree. In my post, I believe they wanted the player to decide what really happened.
This is not the right thing to do. I explained why. We were all interested in their story. The end is not where you want to keep it open. Otherwise, the ending makes no sense.

#9392
NikolaiShade

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ghostbusters101 wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

@ghostbusters101

Sorry mate, I don't think given theese endings someone should care about Shepard. Destroying the relays and stranding the fleet in Sol system he became the bad guy, not a hero.


@Vakarian89

We'll find out at PAX, one way or the other

 You didn't get the point. If indoctrination is happening the kid is lying. It didn't happen. Relays were not destroyed. My point is that BW needs to clarify so that everyone understands what actually happened.


I'm an advocate of the Indoctrination Theory, there are too many hints to just dismiss it as some foolish idea, nonetheless until BioWare says if it's true or not, we can only make speculation about the current endings.

#9393
JoeJesus

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Quintefoil wrote...
...
It’s all rather strange.  In fact, that whole end sequence is rather dream-like, with slow motion, Shep accepting weird dream-logic (where you believe what you’re told in a dream without questioning it, even though it makes no sense at all to the waking mind) and the return of scenery and characters from the past (the Child and TIM).  So some fans have come up with The Indoctrination Theory. ...


This and don't forget the fact that the last scene, where you make one of the 3 main choices... ...takes place on the outside of the citadel.. ..in open space.. ..without a helmet..

#9394
vancian-hero

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some have put it more eloquently than I, but I do feel the need to put in my pennies worth.
It is not so much the endings per se: I was never expecting the final confrontation to be a happy one, but the issue is with the rationale for the reapers existence. It simply does not make any sense. Not when you place it in context with events of the three games. These events flatly contradict the statement of the crucible entity. It also felt clumsy, quite silly and more importantly it jarred like it didn't really belong there.

The rest of the game was a slice of fried gold - the ending - a real bum note.

When I think of similar existential threats and why they existed: The Beserkers by F Saberhagen, The Inhibitors by Alistair Reynolds, the Primes from P Hamiltons commonwealth saga, its a real shame that the ME writers went for such a lame cop out. Hell even the doomsday weapon from the classic trek episode "The doomsday machine" had a better back story.

I hope they go back and look at it. See just how shabby it sounds when put into context of everything that happened up to that point, and then make it right. It doesn't have to be a happy ending, but one that has you nod your head knowingly - if you see what I mean.

#9395
hchadw

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TheCinC wrote...

hchadw wrote...
Its the art to make losts of cash fast and end a franchise quickly so they can move onto the Cash Cow that EA wants them to do............ this broke MULTIPLAYER!


No, that's exactly what they never intended, they never intended to finish the franchise quickly. I'm quite certain they decided to put a cliffhanger in ME3 that would allow for DLC/sequels. That way they could postpone finishing the franchise and keep people interested with more certainty. I'm also thinking it was a management decision at some level, not a decision by the developers/writers, who had planned for a trilogy all along. This decision backfired, Bioware surely sees that now, judging by the confirmation that they are working towards new content to change the way things are. They just don't want us to be too critical as they are a company and they can't afford to take a huge hit and because it hurts after doing 95% of the job right. Quite possibly, this new content was already under development, which is how they would be able to deliver it in April. That would probably be impossible if they had to scramble to create it from scratch. There certainly are allusions to it here and there.

Personally, I don't like this way of doing business, but I mostly dislike we weren't told! We were led to believe this was a full fledged game that would resolve everything! I'm pretty sure the writers wanted it to be, but someone was scared about ending the franchise and decided differently, despite all previous information that ME3 would be the end, the grand finale of an epic journey spanning three games. Breaking up ME3 in the main game and DLC for the main story is something I don't like, but if they had at least been clear on this, we could've made an informed decision before buying the game. Now, we are left with so many questions and have to wait for Bioware to finish a patch/DLC.

However, I am quite hopeful that they will now commit to delivering -exactly- what they had planned originally and what most of us long for, an epic ending with several different scenarios that will do justice to ME! For free, of course, as should have been part of the full price game we all paid for. If they deliver and if they promise never to pull something like this again, I'll gladly shell out for additional DLC and be interested in sequels provided those are of equal size and quality. If they actually make the multiplayer option interesting (imagine playing ME-style missions with friends instead of defeating wave after waves of Cerberus troops/Geth/Reapers) then I'd be interested in seeing that as well. Perhaps even a spin off where I can wage war in space. But until I know there is a true, epic ending to this story, what is the point? I am actually starting to gain hope a litle and have now begun playing ME1 again, with the intention to this time keep Kaidan alive, whom I had killed on Virmire. Of course, I'm not interested in Kaidan over Ashley, but Ashley is kind of a **** and I want Kaidan's Reave power to add to my own powers. :P


I know ... it felt that way.  alot of anger comming out in the posts.

#9396
NikolaiShade

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JoeJesus wrote...

Quintefoil wrote...
...
It’s all rather strange.  In fact, that whole end sequence is rather dream-like, with slow motion, Shep accepting weird dream-logic (where you believe what you’re told in a dream without questioning it, even though it makes no sense at all to the waking mind) and the return of scenery and characters from the past (the Child and TIM).  So some fans have come up with The Indoctrination Theory. ...


This and don't forget the fact that the last scene, where you make one of the 3 main choices... ...takes place on the outside of the citadel.. ..in open space.. ..without a helmet..


And don't forget the vanishing child and Shepard breathing at the end of the destruction ending.

#9397
Cobra's_back

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NikolaiShade wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

@ghostbusters101

Sorry mate, I don't think given theese endings someone should care about Shepard. Destroying the relays and stranding the fleet in Sol system he became the bad guy, not a hero.


@Vakarian89

We'll find out at PAX, one way or the other

 You didn't get the point. If indoctrination is happening the kid is lying. It didn't happen. Relays were not destroyed. My point is that BW needs to clarify so that everyone understands what actually happened.


I'm an advocate of the Indoctrination Theory, there are too many hints to just dismiss it as some foolish idea, nonetheless until BioWare says if it's true or not, we can only make speculation about the current endings.


I agree. I wanted them to understand this by giving "Six Sense" as an example. I'm also supporting "Hold the Line".  Everyone needs clarification.

#9398
hchadw

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Another thing too... i havnt seen anyone mention this.... but.............all that time building the cruicible for it to shed Half the stuff off istelf before inserting itself into the citadel like some big Reaper Sex scene......................... did it feel that way to anyone else............. almost like the reapers wanted us to teach them how to ProCreate and not just Create ?


I get the ending now.... Shepard is standing there at the point where the cruicible is about to pop the Reaper Cherry..


its a love scene at the end between the reapers and the Penial looking device (Cruicible) that we created.....

Its all so clear now!

Modifié par hchadw, 22 mars 2012 - 08:50 .


#9399
pX NitmarE

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If they do make a new ending I hope they let you meet up with your crew again, and maybe even your intrest.

#9400
Anteocitis

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