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[Quintefoil]

jeweledleah wrote...

JoeJesus wrote...

Quintefoil wrote...
...
It’s all rather strange.  In fact, that whole end sequence is rather dream-like, with slow motion, Shep accepting weird dream-logic (where you believe what you’re told in a dream without questioning it, even though it makes no sense at all to the waking mind) and the return of scenery and characters from the past (the Child and TIM).  So some fans have come up with The Indoctrination Theory. ...

This and don't forget the fact that the last scene, where you make one of the 3 main choices... ...takes place on the outside of the citadel.. ..in open space.. ..without a helmet..

well, to be fair.... facemasks and belt bras...  (and Javik doesn't even have that >_> )

which is why when people start yelling realism when it comes to "rocks fall everyone dies" endings I have to laugh, becasue at least half the time its the same people who defended Miranda's right to latex and heels, Jack's right to beltbra, Ashley's right to cleavage cutout and hair in her face, most squadmate's rights to facemasks.. in vacuum, or better yet - hazardous enviroment.

if we are going for realism, then by all means, go all out.  but if you are going to embrace pattently unrealistic occurences in one aspect of the game (inlcuding mechanics behind synthesis ending - still cannot figure out exactly how that could possibly work, using Shepard as a template, when Shepard is basicaly organic creature with a whole bunch of synthetic prostetics), why, oh why do you draw the line at Shepard having more options and maybe even living through the war to reunite with the friends?

First off, thanks to anyone who read my excessively long initial post a couple of pages ago! 

I can't speak for anyone else, but in terms of 'realism', I'm not so much thinking about 'wow, that wouldn't happen in real life'.  I'm asking is what everyone does in fantasy and sci-fi - would this happen in the reality they've created?  I'm asking what everyone does when they're enjoying a story - would the characters the writer (or writers in this case) has set up act in this way in this situation?

The ME reality, as I understand it,

• wouldn't have characters magically disappear from being apparently dead in the middle of a battle on Earth, to suddenly appear back on the Normandy.
• the Normandy wouldn't have had time/opportunity in the middle of that battle to pick up the characters who were with Shepard in the final battle.  (This wouldn't necessarily be the case if they had Star Trek type transporters, though - that would work in the ST universe.)
• wouldn't have Anderson go up the beam after Shepard and get into a room with one entrance ahead of Shepard without Shepard even seeing him.  Just add another entrance or something, I don't know, but make it make sense, please!

Those are a few, but you get the idea.  That's the kind of thing I have a problem with, together with the endings not being this wildly divergent set of options we thought we were getting because of all the talk by the developers before ME3.  

As someone else said earlier, I made one set of decisions, was largely paragon with a small renegade streak and saved everyone in ME2, whereas someone who made the exact opposite decisions and was 100% renegade could have got an identical ending to mine.  That's a bit bonkers and goes against the expectations built up by Bioware, not only through things the developers have said, but also through their MO in previous games (pre-ME, as well as ME1 and 2) and the emphasis of the ME games on player choices impacting the world around them and the way the game plays out.  I loved the endings given to the other storylines, such as the geth and genophage, and it was incredibly disappointing that the final end of the game seems to have been done in a hurry without that care and attention.

[Lioneli]

Now where do I start? I'm really angry about ME3 ending. Do you really thought you can get away with the ending like this??? 
It feels like the game had to be shipped on 12.00 , but at 11.30 there still was no ending. So BIoware  thought , oh we don't have time, we'll jut do something, dosen't matter what, and later we will give 25 DLS to make it right. And that sucks. If Mass Relays are destroyed, so are the systems that they are in. And dont give me something like "Oh it was green explosion that is safe, instead of pink one that would destroy all the galaxy, because that is just lame. How could you forget about all the armada in Earth orbit, that will starve to death, because turians and quarians don't eat human food? How could Joker just flee the ballte? How could Liara, who was just behind me then the Harvenger beam struck, be on Normandy??? And how can she walk of the ship smiling like nothing happened. Love of her life just died and she is smiling???? Maybe she is like that Asari on Illium saying that it is easy with humans because their life is very short in comparing to asari, so they can just stick for a hundred years or so, and then partner dies just move on like nothing happend. Is it the same case with Liara?? AND  WHY Shepard has to die in the first place?  Just to make better impact on the ending? F... that. Three endings and all are basiclly the same? that's all we can expect from legendary Mass Effect saga that's main moto is :  "your choice matters" and in the end then it should be the most important thing, what you've did during all 3 games it matters nothing. 
Yeah I know people have worked a lot on this game and it is wonderfull to say the least, but the ending..... Pls. change it and do it ASAP while it still matters.  Make it sad ending, bad anding, happy ending. And let us choose how we want this saga to end. If someone prefers the scenario everyone dies, get over it, it's fine but I like different ending. Like on ME2  I wanted all my team members to live and I manadged to get them all through suicide mission. Why not make same here? If  you collect all the war assets, you can kick Reapers ass without sacrifising Shepard, all armada and the rest of the galaxy after Mass Relays bolws up.  Is it too much to ask?????                           

[Seival]

xaurabh123 wrote...

Bioware did make a mistake and they are hesitant to accept it. The ending doesn't make any sense. So their announcements to make a dlc to "explain " the ending but not to alter it is not acceptable.

Hold the line people.

Agree. Any "explaining" DLC will make the ending even more absurd. The perfect ending DLC must fix the ending, instead of explaining current ending. 

Modifié par Seival, 22 mars 2012 - 09:41 .

[nitraw]

I just figured something out that was bothering me for some time now but I couldn't put my finger on it:
The starchild tells us that by us getting that far his "solution" does not work anymore. But why is that? Because obviously he has the power to persuade Shepard to sacrifice him/herself trusting that he will do good on his word. What I've been wondering: Why does he keep his word? Why not have Shepard walk into that energy beam and then continue annihilating the fleets? He killed trillions of organics I doubt he would lose any sleep over misleading one of them "for the greater good".

[KaLaMar]

An open letter to Dr. Ray Muzyka
 
     As an ardent Fan of the Mass Effect Trilogy, I must commend you and your staff at BioWare for three totally rad and revolutionary games. The countless hours I have spent playing Mass Effect are a testament to the creativity and ingenuity that BioWare has achieved in its games. I agree with you that Mass Effect 3 is, for the most part, the best game in the series. The graphics were superb and the gameplay was flawless. I only experienced two glitches through the entire game. Only one of these caused any real problems. I, like most fans, feel as though BioWare pulled a fast one on us, though. It seems, unlike ME2 and ME1, that the decisions we make in ME3 have absolutely no influence in the game.   Yes, we can kill, betray or defend any number of allies or enemies just as before, however the outcome is still the same. In ME1 and ME2 you gave gamers something we have always wanted. The ability to make decisions and have those decisions matter. These decision making abilities were crucial to not only the story, but also affected how you had to play the game. I believe this, singularly, is the crux of the situation you now find yourselves in. Nothing a player does, in ME3, seems to really have any effect on the story or gameplay.   That, coupled with the three nearly identical endings, and you can see why the loyal fans of ME have revolted.  I still give Mass Effect 3 a very high score, just like the critics; however, critics are not gamers. Their opinions are largely academic and rarely represent the majority of gamer opinions or views and definitely not the reasons they play a game in the first place. Critics rarely take a vested interest in a game or series like gamers do. Not to mention the millions of dollars we spend on game related products like shirts, hats, books and other paraphernalia.
     As you stated in your letter to ME3 fans “Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that.”   The point I think you need to address is that there were no “endings” in ME3, just three versions of the same ending. This and the fact that Shepherd dies in all three versions is the biggest complaint that I have heard. “Been there, done that” as it were, at the end of ME1! I believe most of the fans will agree that IF this is truly the final game for the Mass Effect franchise then Shepherd deserves (this being said of a fictional game character) a chance at a Win-Win ending. One where Shepherd lives, the reapers are destroyed and the Citadel and the Mass Relays survive intact.   This or some disclosure of what BioWare truly has in store for the Mass Effect Franchise. As we were told by BioWare that this would be the last Mass Effect game in this series; however, too much was left undone, unrevealed and unanswered. This leads me to believe that BioWare intended this outcome all along. That their intention was to produce additional Pay-to-Play DLC content, over several years, to wrap up this series. Let’s face it, if BioWare was thinking this, I have no problem with it. It would have been a very smart thing to do from a business sense. And, we would have purchased it. IF this is not the case; however, then this will have to go down in Gaming History as one of the most Epic fails of all time.   Not only will BioWare have lost touch with its own original story, concept and technology; but also with the people who make BioWare financially viable, it’s fans. I cannot imagine the latter being true. It is completely unthinkable that a franchise with the success of Mass Effect would have just rested on its laurels thinking that they could produce a sub-standard product and we would just buy it and be content. Either it was done intentionally, for the reasons stated above, or someone stifled the dissenting voice of reason.  
     I applaud BioWare’s Management for making the decision to correct its “mistake”, if that is what it was, in a fair manner. We have always respected the people at BioWare for providing us with the very best that gaming has to offer and we continue to do so. 
 
Respectfully;
Dr. Eric Eugene Smith  
 

[finnugor01]

A video from hungary:

http://masseffect.sfportal.hu/

[jeweledleah]

Quintefoil wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

JoeJesus wrote...

Quintefoil wrote...
...
It’s all rather strange.  In fact, that whole end sequence is rather dream-like, with slow motion, Shep accepting weird dream-logic (where you believe what you’re told in a dream without questioning it, even though it makes no sense at all to the waking mind) and the return of scenery and characters from the past (the Child and TIM).  So some fans have come up with The Indoctrination Theory. ...

This and don't forget the fact that the last scene, where you make one of the 3 main choices... ...takes place on the outside of the citadel.. ..in open space.. ..without a helmet..

well, to be fair.... facemasks and belt bras...  (and Javik doesn't even have that >_> )

which is why when people start yelling realism when it comes to "rocks fall everyone dies" endings I have to laugh, becasue at least half the time its the same people who defended Miranda's right to latex and heels, Jack's right to beltbra, Ashley's right to cleavage cutout and hair in her face, most squadmate's rights to facemasks.. in vacuum, or better yet - hazardous enviroment.

if we are going for realism, then by all means, go all out.  but if you are going to embrace pattently unrealistic occurences in one aspect of the game (inlcuding mechanics behind synthesis ending - still cannot figure out exactly how that could possibly work, using Shepard as a template, when Shepard is basicaly organic creature with a whole bunch of synthetic prostetics), why, oh why do you draw the line at Shepard having more options and maybe even living through the war to reunite with the friends?

First off, thanks to anyone who read my excessively long initial post a couple of pages ago! 

I can't speak for anyone else, but in terms of 'realism', I'm not so much thinking about 'wow, that wouldn't happen in real life'.  I'm asking is what everyone does in fantasy and sci-fi - would this happen in the reality they've created?  I'm asking what everyone does when they're enjoying a story - would the characters the writer (or writers in this case) has set up act in this way in this situation?

The ME reality, as I understand it,

• wouldn't have characters magically disappear from being apparently dead in the middle of a battle on Earth, to suddenly appear back on the Normandy.
• the Normandy wouldn't have had time/opportunity in the middle of that battle to pick up the characters who were with Shepard in the final battle.  (This wouldn't necessarily be the case if they had Star Trek type transporters, though - that would work in the ST universe.)
• wouldn't have Anderson go up the beam after Shepard and get into a room with one entrance ahead of Shepard without Shepard even seeing him.  Just add another entrance or something, I don't know, but make it make sense, please!

Those are a few, but you get the idea.  That's the kind of thing I have a problem with, together with the endings not being this wildly divergent set of options we thought we were getting because of all the talk by the developers before ME3.  

As someone else said earlier, I made one set of decisions, was largely paragon with a small renegade streak and saved everyone in ME2, whereas someone who made the exact opposite decisions and was 100% renegade could have got an identical ending to mine.  That's a bit bonkers and goes against the expectations built up by Bioware, not only through things the developers have said, but also through their MO in previous games (pre-ME, as well as ME1 and 2) and the emphasis of the ME games on player choices impacting the world around them and the way the game plays out.  I loved the endings given to the other storylines, such as the geth and genophage, and it was incredibly disappointing that the final end of the game seems to have been done in a hurry without that care and attention.

[*]
[*]oh, I agree completely.  the major issue with the last 10 or so minutes of ME3 is that it breaks the rules of the very universe its set in.  repeatedly.  my issues as far as realism is concerned is not with your analysis, but rather posts from other people saying that it woudl be unrealisitc for Shepard to live to fight another day and reunite with his/her squad.  that it would be unrealistic to defeat the reapers without it being one hell of a pyrric victory (which is what we have right now, regardless of the color explosion we pick)

[finnugor01]

And most of the problems with the game:

http://masseffect.sf...ritika-1463.ann

http://masseffect.sf...egerol-1451.ann

[Quintefoil]

AdamMeyers wrote...

Warning: this is long.

*snip*

That's a more fundamental reason than the ones most people are giving, but creatively speaking I think it's at the heart of the reason for the disappointment.  We want the ending to the series we invested in, not the ending to a game we didn't play.

Hear, bloody, hear!  Excellently written and yes, I agree!  You've articulated some things I had been thinking since completing the game last night, but hadn't quite worked out properly.

CptSpectacu1ar wrote...

The Biotic class of jack in the background shielding troops or attacking (depending on if I saved and if I said they were ready to fight). The Vol Dreadnaught I was so excited to see in the space battle. Quick cut-scenes of the Rachni helping release the panels as they docked with the citidel. All the assets I worked so hard to acquire (and which seemed easy and short additions for the emotional payoff much like the 2nds ending) basically were no-shows. That and the fact that the major plot points (the geth/Qunari and salarian/krogan reconciliations, old character cameo's ect) that were resolved brilliantly during the game are seemingly undone or just plain moot after the newly discovered star-child resets the universe to a new garden of eden apparently.... I am a sad heart-broken panda..

 

Yes, exactly - that's what I was expecting in that final battle, or at least in some sort of epilogue.  Show me that my choices across all those hours of gameplay actually contributed to the ending I saw!

[Night_raven26_]

 games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/bioware-change-mass-effect-3-ending-194431568.html

Thoughts?


http://games.yahoo.c...-194431568.html

Modifié par Night_raven26_, 22 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[twystedspyder]

AdamMeyers wrote...

**Condensed quote to save space.**

That's a more fundamental reason than the ones most people are giving, but creatively speaking I think it's at the heart of the reason for the disappointment.  We want the ending to the series we invested in, not the ending to a game we didn't play.

I'd like to replace my original reply to this post with this.  +1
Sums up the core of our discontent perfectly, I think.

Modifié par twystedspyder, 22 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[phagus]

Perhaps someone can help me with this. I thought that if the reapers took the citadel they would disable the mass relays for organics (as I believe vigil descibed on Ilos happened to the protheans), trapping the fleet I had just spent so long building up with the crucible, so at ftl speed by the time they reached earth there wouldn't be anyone left alive to save. So I was worried when my Shep was told that the citadel was in Reaper hands at earth, and then my fleet reached earth. Did the reapers/catalyst forget? From then on I had problems that the ending wasn't going to work whatever happened, and I'm sorry to say I was proved right. When I  did reach the end I tried so hard to understand what just happened as the rest of the game was so well written. The only thing I can think of is that the game was rushed out to make a deadline before the ending was completed. Either that or it was intentional. I'm not sure which is worse. If this isn't fixed with some mass effect game related logic ea/bioware has just lost another loyal Mass Effect fan and completely ruined the franchise.

[Vox Draco]

nitraw wrote...

I just figured something out that was bothering me for some time now but I couldn't put my finger on it:
The starchild tells us that by us getting that far his "solution" does not work anymore. But why is that? Because obviously he has the power to persuade Shepard to sacrifice him/herself trusting that he will do good on his word. What I've been wondering: Why does he keep his word? Why not have Shepard walk into that energy beam and then continue annihilating the fleets? He killed trillions of organics I doubt he would lose any sleep over misleading one of them "for the greater good".

Stop thinking about that, it might blow your head...

Nothing, I mean truly nothing that Child says to me and my Shep makes any sense to me. And I don't believe any of it, either. And I wanted my Shep to spit this into the kids' face, and tell him where he can stuff his synthesis and Organics vs. Synthetics-silliness...For me, all he wants is my shep to disintegrate herself so he can finsih harvest the galaxy. I won't give him this satisfaction...

And if bioware simply throws out a DLC to "justify" and "clarify" why I should accept this Bullshiat as the truth, I'll stick with my Indoctrination-Thoeory and call it a day. Dragon Age 3? I don't think so at the moment

[NikolaiShade]

Hoping for a straight answer: since the writers/producers decide what I see, why they show me a kid that only Shepard can, apparently, see?

[nitraw]

Vox Draco wrote...


Stop thinking about that, it might blow your head...

Nothing, I mean truly nothing that Child says to me and my Shep makes any sense to me. And I don't believe any of it, either. And I wanted my Shep to spit this into the kids' face, and tell him where he can stuff his synthesis and Organics vs. Synthetics-silliness...For me, all he wants is my shep to disintegrate herself so he can finsih harvest the galaxy. I won't give him this satisfaction...

And if bioware simply throws out a DLC to "justify" and "clarify" why I should accept this Bullshiat as the truth, I'll stick with my Indoctrination-Thoeory and call it a day. Dragon Age 3? I don't think so at the moment

Yeah, I also tried shooting him, didn't work. The whole time I was thinking "Why the hell should I trust him?". If a total stranger told me "Kill yourself and there will be world peace" I would call the police and have him put in a mental institution.

edit: regarding buying other games from Bioware: Mass Effect 1 was the first and only Bioware game(-series) I played and if this is what I get for it, it will be the last.

edit2: Thinking about it I'm actually glad in "selling" Mass Effect to any of my friends.I would be quite embarassed right now.

Modifié par nitraw, 22 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[Ice Cold J]

It's not that I dislike the endings. Well, I DO dislike them, but I could live with them if there was an epilogue of sorts. The whole, central part of ME is choice, and to not give us any indication of what impact our choices have on the galaxy is what I found somewhat offensive and insulting.

I AM glad that BW is doing the fans such a service as to change it and listen to our feedback and give us something we're asking for. That, IMO, is what makes them such a great company. Apparently, they HAVEN'T forgotten their fans, no matter how much EA tries to make them.

Peregrin25 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

On the positive side, my FAVORITE moments from my Adept, alien-loving, renegade FemShep were Thane's final stand and the exchange with Balak.

But, my absolute FAVORITE was the mission with Grunt and the Rachni where he fought off a swarm of Ravagers to give Shep time to escape. After seeing what happened to Thane and Mordin, I was nearly in tears at what I asusmed was Grunt's heroic last stand.

When I saw him come out of the cave, still alive, I felt a rush of joy I haven't felt sine getting the No One Left Behind Achievement on my first playthrough of ME2.

The part with Grunt, I almost cried when he fell over the side of that cavern until I saw him crawl out of the cave all disoriented lol. I was like, Grunt is a bad ass lol

I think my favorite sad moments were Mordin sacrificing himself, the prayer Thane's son reads alloud with sheppard before thane dies and the romance between Shepard and Liara. I romaced Liara back in ME1 and stuck through it all 3 games. The ending talk with Liara on the Normandy and on Earth I broke in tears was just really beautfull.

Grunt is, apparently, straight beasting on Reaper troops all over the damn galaxy.

Mordin nearly broke my heart as well... I was hoping he'd somehow survive, but he didn't make it out. Made me feel even worse as I was on the front lines of leading the "no one but Beattie can play Mordin" battle. The new actor (William Strykler, or something like that, right?) was downright perfect in conveying Mordin's final moments.
I romanced liara all the way through with my main Shep, but I refuse to play that until the face import bug is fixed, which should be soon. I look forward to it.

[CuseGirl]

Silvair wrote...

Okay, I gotta ask...what's with the "marauder shields" thing everyone is going on about?

I swear, I thought I was the only one who didn't understand. I would just call them Marauders, not Marauder sheilds lolll...there are no Marauders in the game without a sheild. So why are we calling them Marauder Sheilds?

[MrNighttime]

Mordins death, that's how to go out!!! and the shooting contest with Garrus--a bro forever.

[Jazzinyourtaco]

Not directly linked to ending...well sort of is but here it is.

Something has been bothering me for a while now and i couldn't quite place it. until my second playthrouh. Has anyone noticed how invisible the child appears on earth??

Think about it, anderson isn't bothered about helping a child? slightly hypocritical of him. and when he gets on the shuttle, the alliance soldiers are there but none think to help the poor little kid.

It was this and a quote from Dr. Muzyka "trying to balance the artistic integrity of the original story"

This led me to believe that the child is intact a self projected image of shepard of himself as a child, alone without parents...same as my step anyway.

So why the child at the end? well it either proves the theory of indoctrination by portray a vulnerable image to shepard or the catalyst represents itself as a familiar image for some other reason to shep.

[Lordambitious]

CuseGirl wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Okay, I gotta ask...what's with the "marauder shields" thing everyone is going on about?

I swear, I thought I was the only one who didn't understand. I would just call them Marauders, not Marauder sheilds lolll...there are no Marauders in the game without a sheild. So why are we calling them Marauder Sheilds?

The last enemy you fight before getting on the citadel is a Marauder
He has shields

He was trying to save you from the endings.

[nitraw]

Only the last one before you enter the beam is referred to as "Marauder Shields" as far as I understand.

[Jazzinyourtaco]

CuseGirl wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Okay, I gotta ask...what's with the "marauder shields" thing everyone is going on about?

I swear, I thought I was the only one who didn't understand. I would just call them Marauders, not Marauder sheilds lolll...there are no Marauders in the game without a sheild. So why are we calling them Marauder Sheilds?

Marauder shields is something that certain members of the community came up with. its to do with the final marauder you shoot before you enter the beam. he has no shields what so ever.

just google it and you'll get a few hits. 

its floating about the mass effect twitter page a bit too .