23455 réponses à ce sujet

[ljc1990]

Just think you guys at Bioware need to watch this.

[Jazzinyourtaco]

hmm didn't realise he had shields, died far to easy...

my bad

[Beovvulf_]

I completed ME3 just a few days ago and before I saw anything about the ending issues.

When I reached the decision gate I literally sat for some time dumbfounded in what I was seeing.

I played ME1 and ME2 literally 20 to 30 times each and I never once lost interest or excitement playing through the games.  I always looked forward to defeating Saren and Sovereign in ME1 and the Collectors in ME2.

The ending in ME3 has no connection to the choices that you have made throughout the course of the game.  You literally have an arbitrary decision to make.  It does not matter in any way, shape, or form whether you played Paragon or Renegade, unlike either of the 2 preceding games.  There is nothing that makes me want to play through additional times because there is no sense of winning.  Every option results in Shepard dieing.

Why even include the chance for Shepard to rekindle or explore romance when there is NOTHING that can come of it.  I was made very clear that many were dieing and many were losing loved ones as a result of the Reapers.

Maybe someone took their lead from Dues Ex 3 because it left me feeling the same way in that there is no point in playing through again just to have the hero die.  If I want reality all I have to do is walk out my front door or turn on the news.

As a player of games I can only say that I expect to feel good at the end of a game and see my avatar reap the rewards of all the efforts that I put into playing the game.  It is a shame that your vision for this ending concept left the player completely without that good feeling.  Completely without reward or even a future and making a mockery of actually making Paragon/Renegade choices throughout the game.

[Mage One]

My favorite part abstractly was the continued development of and attachment to the cast of characters. As far as specific points are concerned, it was probably seeing the distinct role of women in Krogan culture, who they were as a demographic and what the genophage did specifically to them and their hopes for the future.

I intensely dislike the ending. I really liked just about every other part of the game. (It's probably important to note here that I don't buy the Indoctrination Theory). The ending felt like a blanket cover attempting to solve the issue of wrapping up all the players choices and all the plot threads that were still hanging by just going for profundity and falling far short. It had poorly considered dilemmas, poorly-framed choices and an arbitrary sacrifice that felt shoe-horned in. The sacrifice was thematically identical to the sacrifice required in the critically panned remake of The Day the Earth Stood Still, so I'm kind of surprised anyone is surprised by the reaction to it. I honestly recommend to you and all story tellers to avoid trying for profundity as a way of avoiding addressing the plot. It's always tempting to go that route, but the result is almost always amateurish, and I frankly expected better from Bioware. This is a lesson I learned the hard way myself, and I've never forgotten it.

Here's the thing, it doesn't matter how you feel about the themes and ideas you've presented in a story or work of art. It doesn't matter how inspired it feels to you. What matters is how well it communicates these things you wanted to convey. Even if I enjoyed the concept of where you wanted to go with the ending, it was communicated very poorly. And then there are the questions: How is the fusion option creating a new form of life if reapers are already mechanical constructs built with the genetic matter from the harvested cycles? Why does fusion ignore that hybrid lifeforms existed in the prothean cycle only to become mostly synthetic and spark a galactic war instead of fixing the cycles? How does the destruction option destroy all synthetic life when a lot of it is software, such as the geth? Why is the framing of the destroy option completely free of the moral and logical implications of destroying an entire race of sentient beings, again, the geth, who already broke free of the pattern the reapers were created to avoid? Why does the control ending not show Edi as a survivor, when if you're just controlling and not destroying, you can easily just make her command to live her life? This is just the tip of iceberg.

The ending created all these dilemmas and answers none of the plot questions I was concerned with, such as, with the krogan cured, will they actually be able to co-exist with other galactic races? I'll go into more detail in my full ME3 review, but suffice to say the ending was more disappointing and unfulfilling than anything else not because it wasn't happy but because it was poorly constructed and plot-wise poorly aimed.

[Lioneli]

I can accept Reapers logic. They harvest all evolved organic life in the galaxy to prevent it surpassing them. That is logical. But this god child is saying he is preserving organic life by destroing it. Then why give organics mass effect relays, why give them Citadel, why encourage them to evolve much faster then they would on their own and then kill em all.

[Vox Draco]

Jazzinyourtaco wrote...

This led me to believe that the child is intact a self projected image of shepard of himself as a child, alone without parents...same as my step anyway.

My Femshep and her still alive mom Hannah Shepard beg to difer from this *laughs*

But the child really feels odd from the start, very unreal. The scene at the beginning, when he say "noone can help me" and then it vanishes?

It gives me the creeps. Not because I feel pity fpor the child, but because it is scary. It is like Alma's little brother from "Fear" has visited the ME-Universe.

And indeed, it is very strange that nobody cares about the kid at the shuttle. There are even civilians at this scene dragged/helped into the shuttles. For me it is quite clear the kid does not really exist (yes, there is a photo at the memory-wall, but that makes it even more unrealistic to me...that somebody posted a photo of exactly THIS child there after millions died on earth)

Wether or not this is linked to the Indoctrination--theory, or some hallucination, or imagination, and the Star Child simply uses this picture in Sheps mind to manifest itself...I don't know. But that chuld haunts my dreams, that's for sure...and I hate it for this

Modifié par Vox Draco, 22 mars 2012 - 10:17 .

[CuseGirl]

nitraw wrote...

Only the last one before you enter the beam is referred to as "Marauder Shields" as far as I understand.

How quickly these memes gain a life of their own. I wonder if he knows Brooke.

[K2LU533]

For anyone that doesn't understand Marauder Shields: http://knowyourmeme....arauder-shields

[Lordambitious]

Given all the lapses in logic and canon at the end. Not to mention the fact that once the fleet arrives through the relay none of your choices matter (Where were the rachni we were promised? The Batarian Fleet? the Justicars and Krogan forces on the ground?) The ending from that point on needs a re-write.

Otherwise, we might as well have Blasto come in and save the day.

That might actually be awesome tho.

ADD BLASTO!!

[Gaelem]

The more I have thought about it the more I hated that the best moments I had in the game didn't matter, the Geth and the Quarian's at peace, the Krogan now able to breed, Rachni welcomed back and all the little moments with other characters from the past. It doesn't matter, the universe is closed off, Sheppard dies or is now separated by lightyears from the ones he loves. It's a tragic ending.

Artistic integrity aside it's like we started Star Wars and ended with 2001 in the last 5 minutes. The endind I got wasn't the one I felt I was being led to. I thought for sure the signs of peace between Geth and Quarian and EDI would have shown that the Reapers were wrong, and life could coexist synthetic and biological. A forced solution wasn't required. Despite the Illusive Man and Reaper's saying otherwise. I expected to "win" in Paragon style. Not die a noble death in a no win situation. I wanted to see Sheppard "Kirk it".

It just feels like I finished a different game and not the story I played for the last 120 hours more than a few times.
I guess that's the hardest part for me, I invested allot of time in this game and the payoff didn't match the road I thought I was on. The road Casey Hudson said I was on, that my choices mattered. It was also part of the reason I invested so much time to see all the choices playout. To reward their work with my time. To have the game end telling me no matter what I did there is a fixed point in the ME timeline where the relays need to be destroyed, and biological or synthetic life will die or repears will be controlled seems lame. I feel cheated of a real paragon or renegade ending. Which is fine that happens in real life, but I didn't expect my choices not to affect that.ending. I expected to "win" I only felt like I lost and lost badly. Really badly.

[K2LU533]

One of the worst things about the ending is the insane logic behind the reapers. Why control the Geth to destroy organics if that is the very thing they are trying to prevent?

[darkelightnx01]

You know my first thought was the whole indoctrination thing was a bit too Bobby Ewing for me, however the more I think about it. The more it gives Bioware a chance to go back and put right what in effect is a small mis step and cement ME 3 as the greatest, most absorbing game ever. It seems odd that that after all Shephard has seen he wouldn't at least try to argue that this cycle was different, he had already proved that. This game was unprecedented in the fact it gained so much buy in by it's fans so the reaction it's ending has received. As a writer myself I believe games, movies, TV are all art, but art that was made for sale has to try to satisfy the buyer and let's be honest it so nearly did. But I will say again as writer there is a part of me that wants the reader/gamer/viewer to be shocked and wowed now if you stay true to what reader believes then you become a legend if you don't then you break the suspension of disbelief and that is what enrages an audience. Also the reason so many fans have raged is because you are that great in their eyes they value your products. As a fan for all the fans. If you could expand or change the ending then you will regain those who are shouting the loudest and renew the faith of your fans. Thank you bioware for bringing my dreams alive since 2007.

[Lordambitious]

 We don't want happy endings, we dont hate the entire series, we just love the series so much we were disappointed with the ending. We were promised diverse and numerous endings based on our choices. Here's a diagram.

[Lordambitious]

Gaelem wrote...

The more I have thought about it the more I hated that the best moments I had in the game didn't matter, the Geth and the Quarian's at peace, the Krogan now able to breed, Rachni welcomed back and all the little moments with other characters from the past. It doesn't matter, the universe is closed off, Sheppard dies or is now separated by lightyears from the ones he loves. It's a tragic ending.

Artistic integrity aside it's like we started Star Wars and ended with 2001 in the last 5 minutes. The endind I got wasn't the one I felt I was being led to. I thought for sure the signs of peace between Geth and Quarian and EDI would have shown that the Reapers were wrong, and life could coexist synthetic and biological. A forced solution wasn't required. Despite the Illusive Man and Reaper's saying otherwise. I expected to "win" in Paragon style. Not die a noble death in a no win situation. I wanted to see Sheppard "Kirk it".

It just feels like I finished a different game and not the story I played for the last 120 hours more than a few times.
I guess that's the hardest part for me, I invested allot of time in this game and the payoff didn't match the road I thought I was on. The road Casey Hudson said I was on, that my choices mattered. It was also part of the reason I invested so much time to see all the choices playout. To reward their work with my time. To have the game end telling me no matter what I did there is a fixed point in the ME timeline where the relays need to be destroyed, and biological or synthetic life will die or repears will be controlled seems lame. I feel cheated of a real paragon or renegade ending. Which is fine that happens in real life, but I didn't expect my choices not to affect that.ending. I expected to "win" I only felt like I lost and lost badly. Really badly.

^this. This times a thousand.

[Vox Draco]

Gaelem wrote...
 I wanted to see Sheppard "Kirk it".

*balls fists* "HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRBINGERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!"

(Sorry, I needed to do that, and I would have loved my Shepard to do something similar instead of "It's full of stars....")

[nitraw]

K2LU533 wrote...

One of the worst things about the ending is the insane logic behind the reapers. Why control the Geth to destroy organics if that is the very thing they are trying to prevent?

^This

[Fonz99]

I want to start off by saying Mass Effect is the best series I have ever played. I don’t play much games anymore but the ME series was my guilty pleasure. Well done to everyone involved, brilliantly written story and excellent character developments convinced even the apathetic of gamers to care about these characters.

But I think the main concern about the end is being missed, probably not by the Bioware team but by people who are rushing to stand beside the creative team. Citing artistic integrity, when I don’t think gamers are upset about the end per se but more of the plot holes left by the end and the lack of depth.

To explain, it seems to me that from the word go most of the gamers invested in the Mass Effect series thought that if they stayed true to their character, they could feel their experience in the game was unique, and it was something that they could discuss with fellow gamers about how different the game was for them. But what has happened is no matter who lived or who died, no matter how renegade or paragon, no matter what hard decisions you made. Everything and everyone all came back around to the same set of three endings which when you really think about it aren’t that much different. In all three you stop the reapers, in all three you destroy the Mass Relays, in all three the Normandy is stranded on a deserted planet.

I must admit I loved this series and I actually tried to re-play the end hoping for a different scenario even before I went to the forums to see this massive backlash about the end. I did feel disappointed, but as I said not with the end itself just with the fact that my Shepard was just the same as everyone else’s. And I really thought the game felt unique for me up to that point.
I was confused with a couple of things, the Normandys location as the relays are being destroyed, the starchild kid saying “Without us to stop it, synthetics will destroy all organics” even when I already got the Geth and Quarians to play nice. The fact that now the Sol system is going to be grossly over-populated. Especially with the diversity of the races to try and settle on one small planet with the only obvious outcome is war. When we destroyed a relay in ME2 it destroyed the solar system.

Also I think the destruction of the Mass Relays has left the community with no hope for future spin offs, I know it was said that this is the end of Commander Shepard’s story but with the destruction of the relays it effectively ends the ME universe, it would take species millions of years to travel back to their galaxy (I know it’s only 4 cm’s on our T.V’s lol)

Anyway with that said I still think Bioware have done a brilliant job with the series I don’t regret playing it because of the end, I liked the fact that they made our Shepard fallible (I changed LI’s three times and still remained friends... Plaayyyaaa) And it won’t put me off future Bioware titles but I think I might give ME3 DLC a miss.

In all Honesty thank you Bioware for an amazing adventure.

[Margurka]

Dunga780 wrote...

Margurka wrote...

Dunga780 wrote...

No matter what happens, I want Shepard to have a happy ending. Sappy, I know. But I believe games should be uplifting and the guy/gal deserves some R&R.

He's getting eternal R&R, I think he's earned it.  Which is true for everyone's beliefs with exception of believing he goes to hell.  In which case you're an ****.

Ok, fair point. What I mean is, I want Shepard to enjoy what he worked so hard for. My preference comes because Shep & Ash is my favorite romance. Losing him once really hurt her. Now she's gonna lose him again? You have to admit, that would really suck.

Don't get me wrong, I want the same.  I just felt it needed to be pointed out, it sucks but dying usually does

[CuseGirl]

The indoctrination theory, while largely plausible, falls flat because nothing comes after it. I didn't play this game to overcome indoctrination. I played this game because I thought I was actually going to stop the Reapers. Like FOR REAL, kill/destroy/eradicate the Reapers. And if the indoctrination theory is correct, then Bioware/EA dropped the ball in making sure without any doubt I was fighting indoctrination in the end and they also should have included a playable mission or video scene where I truly definitively kill/lose/integrate with the Reapers.

Was Bioware/EA trying to Ron Howard us?

In Ron Howard's "A Beautiful Mind", there are small instances where a viewer MAY realize Nash is losing his mind, like the little girl running thru the birds and the birds don't move. The birds didn't move because the girl wasn't real.

But eventually, Howard had the decency to COMPLETELY reveal Nash's sickness. Once Jennifer Connelly opens that garage, there is no denying that what you've seen is really Nash's sickness. But that wasn't the end. They showed us the nadir of Nash's sickness, the electric shock treatments, him hiding his medication. How it effected his wife and child and his friends. And you were shown how Nash and his wife drudged thru those issues, sad, happy, enraged, ALL OF IT. And at the end, Nash sat down at that table and his colleagues presented him with their pens, a sign of respect and professional courtesy.

Sorry for anyone who hasn't seen that movie. But that's how we should have felt at the end of ME-3.

In ME-3, it appears, they didn't open the garage. And they didn't even sit Shepard down at that table and give him those pens. I earned 6599 EMS and a galactic readiness of 99%. I want my pens.

Modifié par CuseGirl, 22 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[cavallodispade]

Come ON people, the endings were fine. I greatly enjoyed them and am sad that so many people didn't get them/it became a meme to hate on them.


You are presented with a 3 way choice which deviates greatly from the standard paragon/renegade option. You really have to think about what kind of future you would want, each of which seem to have pros and cons, and IMO interestingly enough the most negative ending (destroy reapers) is the one that you'd get if you were to follow the goal you set out to do, which is cool because it conveys the message that your goals change over time, and when you get to that point you realize that what you wanted might not be what you should.

As for the endings being similar, I don't understand how people say that. sure the mass relays get destroyed/damaged in each of them, sure an energy wave gets released, but what actually happens is tremendously different. How different would a technologyless galaxy be from a biosynthetic galaxy? from a galaxy with controlled reapers? The choice is based on your ideology, you see.

and it was really cool that they explained what was up witht the reapers, how there was something behind them (that was hinted at by the prothean VI, saying time was cyclical and all that), and how the ending was on a bigger and more abstract scale than just ships shooting at each other. It was good scifi as opposed to being just action. See, this was a more typical ending to a science fiction series, not an action series.

[Margurka]

MysticBinary82 wrote...

Margurka wrote...

Dunga780 wrote...

No matter what happens, I want Shepard to have a happy ending. Sappy, I know. But I believe games should be uplifting and the guy/gal deserves some R&R.

He's getting eternal R&R, I think he's earned it.  Which is true for everyone's beliefs with exception of believing he goes to hell.  In which case you're an ****.

If you beleave in such superstition then it is fine but I don't. I earned the right to have the choise of a good ending.

Whether you believe in "Heaven" or a complete shut off of the human body into endless oblivion(in other words nothing happens when we die) then yes he is getting eternal rest.  As well I've already stated I'd rather have a good ending.

[anonymous137]

My main problems with the ending:
1) Ultimately your choices didn't matter. You can do everything completely different and it wouldn't affect the outcome of the game in the slightest. We were told numerous times that the endings were going to vary a lot based on what you did in the previous three games. We didn't get that. Instead, we have three endings which are, visually, almost identical.
2) The starchild being in control of the citadel makes you wonder why on earth sovereign went through all the trouble of reaching the citadel in ME1.
3) the starchild's logic makes no sense at all and is refuted by Geth/Quarian peace and EDI's "humanity"
4) The normandy's crash and your teammate's teleportation
5) No real closure as to the consequences of our actions. Did wrex keep the krogan in line? Did the geth and quarian peace last? etc.
6) Destruction of the Mass Relays. Arrival clearly established that this causes a supernova-like explosion that annihilates star systems. No matter what you do, the galaxy is still sent into the stone age.

What I would like to see in a fix:
1) Real variation in the endings based on choice and EMS
2) Removal of the "synthetics always destroy organics" or the ability to refute it
3) the ability to have a "happy" and a "reaper's win" ending based on EMS
4) Possibly doing something like the suicide mission where you choose ground units to support you in the battle to take back earth and vary the outcome based on that as well as EMS and choices.
5) I wouldn't mind the current ending sequence being an indoctrination attempt by Harbinger. I think it would be an interesting stage in the battle and it grants more freedom to write the new endings.

[Huojin]

Gaelem wrote...

The more I have thought about it the more I hated that the best moments I had in the game didn't matter, the Geth and the Quarian's at peace, the Krogan now able to breed, Rachni welcomed back and all the little moments with other characters from the past. It doesn't matter, the universe is closed off, Sheppard dies or is now separated by lightyears from the ones he loves. It's a tragic ending.

Artistic integrity aside it's like we started Star Wars and ended with 2001 in the last 5 minutes. The endind I got wasn't the one I felt I was being led to. I thought for sure the signs of peace between Geth and Quarian and EDI would have shown that the Reapers were wrong, and life could coexist synthetic and biological. A forced solution wasn't required. Despite the Illusive Man and Reaper's saying otherwise. I expected to "win" in Paragon style. Not die a noble death in a no win situation. I wanted to see Sheppard "Kirk it".

It just feels like I finished a different game and not the story I played for the last 120 hours more than a few times.
I guess that's the hardest part for me, I invested allot of time in this game and the payoff didn't match the road I thought I was on. The road Casey Hudson said I was on, that my choices mattered. It was also part of the reason I invested so much time to see all the choices playout. To reward their work with my time. To have the game end telling me no matter what I did there is a fixed point in the ME timeline where the relays need to be destroyed, and biological or synthetic life will die or repears will be controlled seems lame. I feel cheated of a real paragon or renegade ending. Which is fine that happens in real life, but I didn't expect my choices not to affect that.ending. I expected to "win" I only felt like I lost and lost badly. Really badly.

This this this all of this. Hell, even if Shepard surviving was near impossible to achieve, the fact that it was THERE would have been enough for me. To invest all that time and money in something, to be told that what I did mattered for it to uh, NOT MATTER ONE JOT?  That everything I did, all my choices would lead to the same thing? Not best pleased, especially after Dragon Age 2.  

There's no variation in the ending, contrary to what you promised us.
There's no consequences to any of your actions, contrary to what you promised us.
Our choices throughout two games (that cost £40 each, I might add) don't matter at all, contrary to what you promised us.

I finished the game last Friday and it's left such a sour taste in my mouth that I haven't touched my Xbox at all over the last week - I certainly have no desire to pick up ME3 ever again. Why would I? I happily replayed Mass Effect 1 & 2 at least 10 times each, yet ME3?  Once is way more than enough.

I certainly feel cheated, and the more I read vague statements alluding to something or other we're not quite sure yet, the more annoyed I get.

Just give us a straight answer - do you ACTUALLY care what we think or not? Stop stringing us all along.

Modifié par Huojin, 22 mars 2012 - 10:49 .

[Margurka]

Dunga780 wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

On the Catalyst, some of his quotes (I don't know if they were posted before).

"I am the Catalyst" - singular
"You want to destry us" - plural

Now maybe I'm wrong but if it is the Catalyst it's implying it is not a Reaper, then the Catalyst uses "us", so it is a Reaper after all. What is the Catalyst?

Then the million dollar question: if Shepard can't comprehend the motivations of the Reapers in ME1, why after a year or so (two years of Lazarus Project can't help in this matter) the Catalyst can fully explain them?

Second question: the Reapers kill the advanced organic races every 50k years, right? Now if their goal was to avert the extinction of the organics then why they don't just kill the synthetics?

Edit: apparently I can't make the image in my signature visible, sorry

Because actions have consequences. If organics were saved from their mistakes of creating AI, then they would just keep doing it because they never faced any consequences. So the reapers allow the organics to face extinction as a consequence but prevent annihilation by harvesting. At least, that's how it seems to me.

That actually makes a bit of sense, but then does that mean the Reapers really did create the Crucible?  Seems redundant

[Margurka]

jeweledleah wrote...

MysticBinary82 wrote...

Margurka wrote...

Dunga780 wrote...

No matter what happens, I want Shepard to have a happy ending. Sappy, I know. But I believe games should be uplifting and the guy/gal deserves some R&R.

He's getting eternal R&R, I think he's earned it.  Which is true for everyone's beliefs with exception of believing he goes to hell.  In which case you're an ****.

If you beleave in such superstition then it is fine but I don't. I earned the right to have the choise of a good ending.

this. I don't beleive in afterlife.  i beleive in making the best of whatever short time we have in this, only life we have.

also - if we take the endings at face value and do in fact beleive in afterlife - in control ending Shepard becomes the catalyst, spending eternity keeping reapers at bay (or deciding in 50k years that maybe the sycles are not such a bad idea) and in merge ending Shepard's essence is consumed and spread across the rest of the galaxy - to magicaly meld everything into organic/synthetic hybrids (still trying to wrap my head around how that would actualy work scientificaly). so I guess Shepard only goes to heaven if he/she destroys the reapers, by commiting Geth Genocide (and killing EDI) in a process? 

I never said anything about an afterlife.  Once you're dead that's the ultamite rest, afterlife or no.