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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#9476
CuseGirl

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cavallodispade wrote...

Come ON people, the endings were fine. I greatly enjoyed them and am sad that so many people didn't get them/it became a meme to hate on them.


You are presented with a 3 way choice which deviates greatly from the standard paragon/renegade option. You really have to think about what kind of future you would want, each of which seem to have pros and cons, and IMO interestingly enough the most negative ending (destroy reapers) is the one that you'd get if you were to follow the goal you set out to do, which is cool because it conveys the message that your goals change over time, and when you get to that point you realize that what you wanted might not be what you should.

As for the endings being similar, I don't understand how people say that. sure the mass relays get destroyed/damaged in each of them, sure an energy wave gets released, but what actually happens is tremendously different. How different would a technologyless galaxy be from a biosynthetic galaxy? from a galaxy with controlled reapers? The choice is based on your ideology, you see.

and it was really cool that they explained what was up witht the reapers, how there was something behind them (that was hinted at by the prothean VI, saying time was cyclical and all that), and how the ending was on a bigger and more abstract scale than just ships shooting at each other. It was good scifi as opposed to being just action. See, this was a more typical ending to a science fiction series, not an action series.


Seriously, there was never a moment where I was playing this game and thought to myself "I want to combine organic and synthetic life" or "i want to control the Reapers". I never had that in mind. 

#9477
deity

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This whole artistic integrity BW keeps "shooting" out is lame ... for lack of a better word!

If I want art, I'll by a painting to hang on my wall or a sculpture or something along those lines....

I bought a computer game for cryin' out loud ... in order to be entertained not to contemplate!!!

#9478
sarahann62380

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So I find myself a bit frustrated so I need to get this out or it's going to gnaw at me and it's almost the weekend. I don't want to be frustrated for my weekend, I just had my first full week on a new job. I need a break. But anyway, I've posted here before. I love Mass Effect. Loved. Made me get all swoony with the love scenes. It made me root for a character in the game like I'd never done before. And it had so much replayability value; you could play as a new class--well as a completely new character, playing renegade or paragon. That was awesome. You could kill the rachni, you could let them live. You could kill Wrex, let him live. You could not do someone's loyalty mission or not upgrade your ship enough and take a chance on someone not making it through the suicide mission. You could decide whether or not you kept the collector base or not. There are so many in-depth, heart-thumping choices that I actually do find my heart racing in some parts of these games. And I end up shaky and just so very enthralled in these games. I love them.

But on to my problem. There are several people that were not happy with the ending. It's just a simple fact. They weren't. I was one of them. It was like expecting this huge fight a la ME1 and 2, and then getting a fizzle. You want epic, especially for the end of a trilogy. You want battling against all odds, bringing this massive military together, building the crucible, you expect that you can win with at least a somewhat climactic ending. I feel this didn't happen. And of course now that a decision has been made that a "modified" ending will be coming, the people who were not happy about the ending and obviously very vocal about it have gotten a lashing. What?  Really? We got a product that we weren't happy about, paid $63 (plus DLC) for it, played the series for five years, played for hours and hours and hours, you know what, hell yeah we expect a climactic, super awesome (excuse my geekiness) ending. Yes, we do. I think it's unfortunate, though, that game reviewers and the like are making us out like we're the bad guy in all this. All we did was fight for what we thought we as gamers really wanted out of this game.

I do have to say it's unfortunate how some people have been nasty and even threatening from what I've read. I haven't seen any proof of it. It's just what I've read. It makes us all look bad. That's not what we're trying to do. We're not trying be as@holes. That's not the point of this, not at all. We want to be civil and respectful because for the most part we love BioWare. In all honesty, I've only played BioWare games until recently where I did pick up "Skyrim." We love their stories--or at least I do. There's something special about them. They have that "it" factor that just brings you into the game and really makes you part of it. And I know I love them (you) for that.

As far as the ending, I'd like more than a text epilogue or even just an explanation of what each ending means. I'm hoping everyone is right and it's the indoctrination idea--I will feel like a complete butthead and will chomp on every word I've ever written. (I won't have to eat for weeks) But if not, please give us something that's worthy of Shepard's story--an epic, explosive ending. And I don't want to insult the ending that is there because I'm sure hte writers and developers did work extremely hard on this. There's really no choice in these endings--and everything you've been working so hard toward kind of--well, it does fall flat.

Now, yep, I'll admit I want the candy, puppy and unicorns ending. But I don't HAVE TO have it. But I would like that to be an option but you had to work super hard at getting it. Like in ME2 where you had to do everyone's loyalty mission and completely upgrade your ship in order to have everyone live, or else you could lose squad members. This was a good premise. Also something like Dragon Age Origins, where you could die, a squad mate could die, or everyone could live. But perhaps I've been spoiled by BioWare games in assuming that there would be just the most fulfilling ending ever. I would love for her to be able to retire--or maybe start to help rebuilding, something. She deserves this after what she's been through. And by she, obviously I mean femshep. She nearly dies like half a dozen times in ME3 alone. And like Garrus says, she died once and all it did was ****** her off.

Please give us something that's playable. And yes, I'd pay for it. Now if the indoctrination theory is actually true, again, I will shut my mouth and move on to my next playthrough of ME3. Otherwise, please give us something that we can really call "epic." 

#9479
Huojin

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sarahann62380 wrote...


Now, yep, I'll admit I want the candy, puppy and unicorns ending. But I don't HAVE TO have it. But I would like that to be an option but you had to work super hard at getting it. Like in ME2 where you had to do everyone's loyalty mission and completely upgrade your ship in order to have everyone live, or else you could lose squad members. This was a good premise. Also something like Dragon Age Origins, where you could die, a squad mate could die, or everyone could live. But perhaps I've been spoiled by BioWare games in assuming that there would be just the most fulfilling ending ever

Please give us something that's playable. And yes, I'd pay for it. Now if the indoctrination theory is actually true, again, I will shut my mouth and move on to my next playthrough of ME3. Otherwise, please give us something that we can really call "epic." 


Yes, I wanted candy and puppy and unicorns ending. Maybe with rainbows and kittens too.  I WANTED it to be super duper hard to achieve too -that would make me WANT to replay it. And like you, I was expecting that variety. Partly because I'd had it before, partly because Bioware told us we could expect it.    If some actual work went into it, I'd gladly pay for it. If I'm just getting a stupid text box ending... no.

Modifié par Huojin, 22 mars 2012 - 10:52 .


#9480
CuseGirl

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Now that I think about it, why was there ever an option to control the Reapers, after so much of ME-3 shows you that TiM is a depraved racist sociopath and that's exactly what a depraved racist sociopath would do, attempt to control sentient dreadnoughts.

#9481
heathxxx

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If indeed the "Indoctrination Theory" is what the "ending" and indeed many points in the game, such as the "dreams" and "hallucinations" is all about, then I'm sure BioWare are listening, but sporting a wry smile at the same time.

That said and given the backlash if this was indeed the intended way to tell the story, perhaps the broader market they've been looking to capture, simply wasn't ready for such an ambitious concept being used in a video game?

If it's not the "Indoctrination Theory" at play, then the only alternative is in the hands of those raging over the endings. Poor writing, many plot holes and rushed production.

I'm hoping it's the former, because the ending sequence felt too "wrong" to be anything other than a hallucination or indoctrination experience.

Modifié par heathxxx, 22 mars 2012 - 10:58 .


#9482
pX NitmarE

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Anteocitis wrote...

pX NitmarE wrote...

If they do make a new ending I hope they let you meet up with your crew again, and maybe even your intrest.


which love interest?

the one dead in London?

... or the clone who stepped out of the crashed Normandy *in some other place & time*

*ack*

Bobby was in the shower... it was all a dream!

(Yup you youngsters will need to look that one up!) :o

I don't know about you, but mine got stranded on that random planet the normandy crashes on.

#9483
Don Ravan

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I hope they dont just 'explain' the ending. They need to change it, or add to it.

Ill be pissed if they release DLC that just fleshes out the bull**** we got.

#9484
jinxter69

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Played through ME, and it was SO good that I played 4 characters through it making slightly different choices to what would happen in ME2. That was so much fun that I created an additional 3 characters just to do it again.

In ME2, ran 4 characters through it just to be able to take different characters through ME3, just because I wanted to see what my choices would do for me in ME3. How the story would change based on what came before. The ending in ME2 was EPIC. My first run through was without reading anything on the internet, I sped through it...even rushed to the end just so I could see what it was. I only did about 60% of the missions and due to that I lost 4 members of my party during the last mission. Each of those that fell forced me to take a quick break, compose and soldier on. When I finished, I had such a sense of accomplishment, that I immediately restarted just so I could pick different choices so I could then 'save' those that I had lost before. This was one of the first games in which I got emotionally attached to my squadmates.

In ME3, I was looking for more of the same...however when I finally got to the ending sequence, I HAD to pause. I could not believe what I was seeing/watching and had very little control over. This DID NOT feel like the same game that I just played. The ending felt rush and tacked on...it totally took me out of the game as I realized that all of the choices I had made in the previous games mattered not. It was, and still is, a blow that nearly took all the wind from my sails. Did this god-child not see that EDI decided to change her own programming so as to experience 'Life'? She chose to protect Love and Life over self-preservation. Did this god-child not see the ending of the Geth/Quarian war? Did the god-child not see that Legion chose self-sacrifice to better his own people so that they may live in peace with their own creators? Did this god-child not see any of my choices? The sad thing is...the god-child saw none of this...Why? Because the god-child was a far removed from the reality of what was happening in the galaxy as Bioware is from its own fans.

Declaring us and treating us a 'vocal' minority...using a variety of language...does nothing but to prove to us, how disconnected you are not only to us, but to the very history of your own game. This disconnect is what most of us cannot believe. How could a company, that created the complexity of the first 2 ME games, get is so horribly wrong in the last 10 minutes of the 3rd entry?

Only a company that is so disconnected from its own fan base and mythology would ever use the words...'artistic integrity'.

Remember Lucas and how he keeps changing the scene w/Han and Greedo? Han Shot First...
Like this, Shepard NEVER gives up...and yet, Bioware, right now, wants us to believe that s/he does...

Modifié par jinxter69, 22 mars 2012 - 11:06 .


#9485
Killmoves37

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Bioware just needs to run with that idea because not only does it make the most sense, but it gives the perfect lead in to the "Real" ending.

Modifié par Killmoves37, 22 mars 2012 - 11:10 .


#9486
chevyguy87

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its official everybody i just logged into my email and read an article that bioware will indeed be doing something about the ending i just wish that some of the criticism wasnt so malicious and targeted directly at personnel but on a lighter note we did it people we held the line

#9487
Chazzier

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First of all, I would like to say thank you to everyone involved in this
amazing series. It is without a doubt one of, if not my favorite story
in the medium, or any other medium for that matter. I honestly felt the
ending was just fine. I will admit I wanted a little more closure, but I
thought it was a fine way to go out. It was an actual conclusion, and I
am thankful for that. Completed ME3 twice now, and loved it even more
the second time through.

However, I was anticipating great fallout from the last decision I made.
I, over the course of the entire series, grew to know and love the
various, amazing characters that populate this universe. And I was
less attached to Shepard and his or her plight (though I was indeed
greatly invested) than I was for everyone else's. To put it plainly, I
loved them more than I did my own character. Great job on that btw. I
feel that Bioware does this better than any other developer. I am able to choose and like my characters organically. No one is forced on me. I can choose to dislike a character if I please,
or fall in love with one. Back to topic, I wanted to see their end,
their conclusion. The Normandy crash created mystery sure, but it didn't
provide me with the closure for them that I would have liked.

Examples:
I choose Ash as a romance in ME1, stayed loyal in ME2, rekindled in ME3
and then I died on her. Again. I would have loved to see the fallout of
that choice. How is she taking this? Is she going to be alright? I would have loved to see that, for other love interests as well.

I
also chose Destroy. Which destroys all synthetic life. Meaning the Geth
are dead. I was able to stop the conflict and have the Geth and
Quarians live in harmony. But now the Geth are dead. How does that
change things for the Quarians on Rannoch? This decision also kills EDI,
who I encouraged to have a relationship with Joker. I would have liked
to see Joker's reaction to the one he loves death. At first I thought
that was what Joker was doing in the relay in the last scene. Honestly,
just a glace over to a still alive EDI would have given enough of a
reason, for me anyway, for the Normandy to be there. Joker trying to
outrun this force that's going to kill his lover. Only to ultimately
fail.

Also, how is Hacket dealing witht this? He just won this
war, but Anderson (assuming he's killed) and Shepard are now gone. And
if the relays are destroyed, how is he or the powers that be on Earth
going to aid or house these aliens that are now stranded here? Also, is
the council dead? Are they alive? Were they on the Citadel when it was
attacked? I might have missed that, but if I didn't, that would be neat
to see.

I know these are all really issues that can be addressed in the mind. But to see it play out according to your decisions,
to see the fallout from your epic adventure would be amazing. And I
believe it would also quiet many players feelings that their decisions
don't factor into the ending. Also, this being such an amazing,
cinematic experience, watching a lengthy epilogue would be a welcome
addition. Think LOTR Return of the King's epilogues for an example of
what I'm trying to get at.

Thanks for listening to your fans. I think its a brave thing to do. And I commend you for it. Again, thank you for this amazing story that has "Effect"ed my (had to) life in so many amazing ways.

Other
ideas: A Harbinger confrontation with some dialogue and maybe another
epic Reaper clash would be amazing. The ones in the game were so epic
and exciting. More would be welcomed for sure.

To see your
various War Assets in action would be really cool. I will admit that I
desparetely wanted to see the Elcor with those VI assisted heavy weapons
on their backs throw down with some Brutes or something. Also, to see
the Aria's forces in action would create a bit more of a connection to
ME2, seeing some Eclipse and Bood Pack getting violent on some Husks
would be awesome. Taking back Omega from Cerberus would be super epic too.

I
personally love the multiplayer. It's the first time that I've actually
cared about multiplayer. But for those who don't like the multiplayer
should have an option to get their galactic readiness up without it.
Maybe something similar to the mp but with your squad in sp.

Just throwing some ideas out there. Again, thank you to all involved. Can't wait to see what you all come up with.

#9488
Cross429

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darkelightnx01 wrote...

You know my first thought was the whole indoctrination thing was a bit too Bobby Ewing for me, however the more I think about it. The more it gives Bioware a chance to go back and put right what in effect is a small mis step and cement ME 3 as the greatest, most absorbing game ever. It seems odd that that after all Shephard has seen he wouldn't at least try to argue that this cycle was different, he had already proved that. This game was unprecedented in the fact it gained so much buy in by it's fans so the reaction it's ending has received.


Reasonable people can disagree, but for me, it's clear that Bioware intended you to consider that Shepard had been indoctrinated. The dream-like quality of the UI (similar to other dreams presented in the game,) the presence of "dream foliage," the gun that fires infinitely but hurts only designated enemies (a first in the series), the repeated depictions of the hallmarks of Indoctrination as described by the Codex and the Rachni ("oily shadows" which appeared in the last "boy dream" along with disembodied voices and shadow people). Not to mention the fact that the dream child's words conflict with everything the Reapers had ever said about their motivations, and that when Shepard picks the non-destroy choice his eyes change to match the (obviously Indoctrinated) TIM - the only times these eyes are seen on any character in the game. Ghost boy only says "wake up" when he finds you if you have enough War Assets to acheive the ending where you "wake up" in London. 

Most importantly, I haven't seen this obvious point raised nearly enough: at the end, you're raised up on a previously invisible elevator into a white light, where you discover a special room with three giant machines that correspond conveniently to one of three decisions Shepard can make. You mean to tell me that these were built in when the Citadel was constructed? All in the same room? "Lets build a room with three big kill switches that radically change the galaxy in their respective ways in case someone eventually stumbles upon it and wants to blow up the mass relays to enact three distinct but well-defined outcomes." You gotta be kidding me ----- either this is dream symbology or incredibly, incredibly sloppy writing. I don't believe the latter is possible from Bioware.

If you were to design a generic dream sequence in a game, this is how you'd do it: the dev notes say they wanted to "invite speculation," and boy did they. (A crap ton of evidence here for those not yet Indoctrinated:  http://m.fanfiction.net/s/7920772/2/). The story mentions the possibility of Shepard's mind being taken over repeatedly throughout ME3 (Joker asking Shep how he knows he actually left the Geth collective, Ashley's sense about the possibility, the "reviews" by the VI and Chakwas saying he's not Indoctrinated - all unnecessary unless this is a possibility we're supposed to consider.)

"It was only a dream" sounds like it's grasping at straws, and it usually is: until, y'know, the game drops 500 direct clues that you're supposed to think about it.

My guess: Bioware intended a follow-on DLC that played out Shepard's rising out of Indoctrination and the subsequent fight. The endings were rushed for reasons described elsewhere and they thought they would be sufficient for the time being (i.e. Shepard saves the galaxy, but with a huge twist: about what I expected). Bioware was SHOCKED that the reaction was this negative.....they were expecting that debate and speculation about what the endings meant would tide people over until the DLC, just building word-of-mouth and increasing eventual DLC sales, but they've always been planning an add-on.

#9489
KoolDude8690

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I just recently completed mass effect 3 and i was unsatisfied with the endings. i understand that bioware is working on new endings but the fact that they put it in the finished game is unexceptable. If anything they should be the ones who say, " Oh, this is a bad ending, we should probably fix it before we move onto DLC." Thats my other complaint is why is bioware working on DLC when there is a bad ending to the trilogy. All the endings are the same, choose to controll, destroy, or combine the reapers and people basically, a colored wave comes out of the crucible, reapers leave and shepard dies, normandy crashes, see it on an island, crew comes out, and in one of the endings shepard is found breathing. The End. When I watched this i felt like i wasted my time playing this. I did purchase the DLC and thought it was okay, but i still cant get over the fact that they decide to work on DLC after the game has a crappy ending and don't even pay attention to it. I swear if Bioware makes us pay for the endings, I, along with most people, will be pissed. it will be one of the biggest rip offs in gaming history, along with Call of Duty. If this is a reality, i Bioware will lose it's fanbase. My statement on this is one thing, why should we pay for Bioware's mistakes. Bioware should give the people who bought and completed something free in the process, like a DLCor a free copy of a game we haven't purchased.

#9490
Margurka

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Vakarian89 wrote...

 u know i was starting to just give up and accept that the ending is what it is, in my head i thought about the conversations with all your current and former squadmates and decided that i guess u DO kinda get someclosure to all the characters and events such as the genophage and geth/quarrian war throughout the course of the game....BUT  that last scene of shepard after the Destroy option just keeps bugging me!! ive read about the indoctrination thing here in the forums and i cant help but feel that the dudes at Bioware and EA are really just laughing thier butts off at all of us!!! :blink: ESPECIALLY after watching this!!  

 

until this mysterious DLC comes out im gonna hold on the hope that either 1) Bioware devs are Evil Geniuses pulling the biggest prank in history or 2) that they realize they unknowingly saved thier own butts and will come out say "hahah they of course thats what we meant!! DUH!!!"


ZOMG I knew my instincts were right, dude it fits perfectly!  So glad I chose to destroy.

Modifié par Margurka, 22 mars 2012 - 11:23 .


#9491
Casuist

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I finished the game with my ME1/ME2 imported main character. I hated the endings (for that character), and will go ahead and add my primary reasons for feeling that way...

I feel there are a couple of conversations (primarily with Javik) within the game that are well written, compelling, and foreshadow the ending decisions and options given by the Catalyst. There are two "universal" principles I wish to address.

1) Synthetic life will ultimately revolt and attempt to destroy its creators. This becomes the central idea driving the plot (being the Reapers' motivation that we have struggled to discern throughout the series). Part of my problem with the assertion is, as others have stated, that my Shepard spent three games disproving it only to be forced to accept it in the end. The geth were saved, evolved, and brought into a new era of cooperation with the quarians after a 300 year war we are told need not have happened in the first place. We are allowed to converse extensively with EDI- over the course of three games once again she develops from basic self-awareness to self-determination and ultimately a character that feels "alive" - a synthetic being that perceives intrinsic value in basic mores we attribute to the best of humanity even when they violate self-preservation. There is no ending option in the game that both ultimately preserves this "solution" to the Catalyst's "problem" and truly defeats the Reapers (one could argue this point to some degree with the "control ending" - but I have other issues with that one). Indeed, the destruction ending pointlessly invokes the destruction of "all" synthetic life, including EDI and the geth, no matter the decisions made or future promised for cooperation between synthetics and organics.

Even if this ending did not conflict with the evolution of my character and the game, I have an issue with the principle of inevitable conflict. As far as I recollect, only Javik ever poses anything resembling a logical argument as to why synthetics and organics are incompatible while separate, paraphrasing:

"No one knows why organic life exists, some say an accident, some say a miracle"
"Synthetic life knows who created it, and knows organics are imperfect"

SO WHAT?

The notion that this will inevitably lead to war and extinction is never really defended, but at least it's an argument. Something close to a defense is offered by Javik's second objectionable universal principle.... paraphrasing again

2) "It's Evolution. The strong dominate the weak." I had this conversation with our resident prothean and enjoyed the fact that the story investigated the matter. I said to myself "he's a soldier, not a scientist, and he's a product of his society." I object to the principle as stated because it is a blatantly false allegation... symbiosis and cooperative survival are a Fact of evolution in our universe, and even if one were to limit one's argument to in-game evidence then we have once again spent much of the game demonstrating that united species against a common enemy is a viable means of survival. Still, this seems the only justification for suggesting synthetics and organics cannot cooexist: the flawed assumption that advancement eventually requires conflict.

Fundamentally, I object to the endings because, in their exclusivity, they appear to invalidate compelling ideas and the nature of my main character developed throughout the games, and thereby do a disservice to that specific character of Shepard (this is not to say that the endings are themselves bad, but rather that there is no ending to fit certain characters and mass effect storylines).


Finally- I would bring up two lesser problems which have been discussed at length.

a) The ending sequence involving the Normandy makes no sense with other aspects of the plot as presented.

B) Shepard's death, in circumstances where she/he dies, seems insufficiently justified to me. The notion of sacrifice is prevalent throughout the series, and the tone of individual sacrifice offered at Virmire, at Tuchanka with Mordin, with Thane on the Citadel, and with Legion on Rannoch is perfect. Individual sacrifice for the sake of the many, and each character "dies" to resolve a specific problem. It's unclear why the nature of the catalyst and crucible should demand that sacrifice of shepard (he/she dies because he couldn't shoot the power conduit from far enough away? or because his all-organic DNA is needed, for some reason, to write an evolved hybrid organic/sythetic genetic code? It's not as if there isn't ample DNA 99.9999% similar to his/hers patiently decaying by the keepers over where the conduit fed out).

I'll be honest and say that I want to be able to have a Shepard-survives ending (let's call it "happy"). We've seen a great deal of sacrifice throughout the series, and demanding that Shepard die seems only to send a message that's already been received- that reality is grim and the galaxy is a harsh, bleak place. In circumstances where Shepard dies- better that it be an inability to survive the wounds collected on the way to the conduit rather than determined by the completely arbitrary demands of the catalyst/crucible.

Thank you so much for the fantastic game. I would like to see the endings added to - to explain plot gaps and to have a resolution that truly fulfills certain of my characters... but ultimately I do appreciate the gripping story and game experience I've followed from the start.

Modifié par Casuist, 22 mars 2012 - 11:22 .


#9492
cavallodispade

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CuseGirl wrote...

cavallodispade wrote...

Come ON people, the endings were fine. I greatly enjoyed them and am sad that so many people didn't get them/it became a meme to hate on them.


You are presented with a 3 way choice which deviates greatly from the standard paragon/renegade option. You really have to think about what kind of future you would want, each of which seem to have pros and cons, and IMO interestingly enough the most negative ending (destroy reapers) is the one that you'd get if you were to follow the goal you set out to do, which is cool because it conveys the message that your goals change over time, and when you get to that point you realize that what you wanted might not be what you should.

As for the endings being similar, I don't understand how people say that. sure the mass relays get destroyed/damaged in each of them, sure an energy wave gets released, but what actually happens is tremendously different. How different would a technologyless galaxy be from a biosynthetic galaxy? from a galaxy with controlled reapers? The choice is based on your ideology, you see.

and it was really cool that they explained what was up witht the reapers, how there was something behind them (that was hinted at by the prothean VI, saying time was cyclical and all that), and how the ending was on a bigger and more abstract scale than just ships shooting at each other. It was good scifi as opposed to being just action. See, this was a more typical ending to a science fiction series, not an action series.


Seriously, there was never a moment where I was playing this game and thought to myself "I want to combine organic and synthetic life" or "i want to control the Reapers". I never had that in mind. 


And why did there have to be?

For one, controlling the reapers was always on the table. Everything to do with cerberus was about that. They present their side and the player is meant to at least consider it. They may reject it and choose something different, but it's an option. it's a choice. The synthesis ending was new, but that was the point. that was the solution that emerged from the new information you had at the end. The endings represent quite varied concepts:

1: do what you had wanted from the beginning: use the crucible to destroy the reapers and end their holocaus.
2: realize that you approve more of the illusive man's concept (though his execution was terrible) and proceed to do what he wanted, but do it right.
3: take a step back, listen to the catalyst, and in light of all it has to say and all you learn about what has been going on and why, you choose to get out of the cycle as much as you can, removing the conflict that caused it at an inherent level. this ending takes your initial desires and those of the catalyst and replaces them with something entirely different, something hopefully better, much like the organics and synthetics themselves were combined into a superior form of life.

#9493
Tezzajh

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what about the destruction ending? shep lives, stargazer tells another story about shep and leaves on a exciting cliff hanger that needs no closure because it implies you will eventually get it, why doesnt everyone just pick that ending and anticpate what will come next?

To many people are acting as if death is the only scenario and that means its the end of the story when it clearly isin't.

#9494
loocsileinad

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The game has an incredibly weak ending and it needs to be fixed. I am personally a fan of the indoctrination theory, whether or not it was the original intent of the creators. Take this ingenious idea and run with it, Bioware! Even if this is not the nature of the modified ending, something has to be done. The ending as it stands is absolutely unacceptable.

The first priority needs to be fixing the plot holes. A terrible ending would be mire acceptable if it made any sense at all.

Second priority should be providing actual variety to the types of endings that are achievable. A happier ending would be nice, but if it has to be tragic, at least provide different tragedies, not 3 versions of the exact same thing.

Third priority would be to provide a sense of closure to all of the stories that we were invested in. As players, we want to know what happened based on our decisions. What happened to our love interest, or e major races

#9495
GholaHalleck

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My problem with the endings, outside of agreeing with most of the folks here, is that, in two of the three endings:

We become the Illusive Man.

Not in some magical "You are Number One" way. not in a "You are the zombies" way, but two of our choices, namely "Control" and Synthesis" are what TIM wanted to do in the beginning of the game.

Remember Mars? remember ashley/kaiden throwing up when they cracked open the Cereberus Armor and saw the semi-husk? You think they're going to be happy with Synthesis ending? You think the Quarians, Kelly, Chakwas, and the rest of the SR2 crew who survived the Collector Base are going to smile like Joker when they wake up and have metal grafted to them?

And am I the only one annoyed that Joker seemed to still hobble in that version? Did he get the Vista version of the Synth code?

We don't even need to talk about "Control" but I will. It was TIM's plan all the way. Entirely. And you know what? My canon Shep is currently forced to take this route. Because I can't abide the Relays going down. At least ReaperShep can set the deathbee's to work fixing them. My CanonShep pulls a Leto ll, and that's the only reason I can stomach it.

"Having to stomach it" should not be something I have to say about a bioware ending.

*Sips that bitter angst like a fine house beer*

#9496
Cross429

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Killmoves37 wrote...




Bioware just needs to run with that idea because not only does it make the most sense, but it gives the perfect lead in to the "Real" ending.


Couldn't agree more. Maybe it was considered and abandoned, but after watching this, you can't tell me the guys who wrote the Mass Effect series didn't even have it cross their mind. As much as I hated the "ending" depicted in the game, the Indoctrination ending would actually be kinda cool --- the player base was Indoctrinated with their Sheps. But it's not so cool if it was intended to be the final word (and I don't think so).

Another point: we're actually supposed to believe that the ending cinematic to the bloody Mass Effect series has no voice acting? With all the money they spent throughout the series on the actors: all those lines recorded for the various player choices? They just decided not to record anything and rely on a few limited facial expressions? It's a game designed to be cinematic and rich with conversation:  so this has all the hallmarks of a patch job well-rushed, intended to seem a bit off (encouraging speculation), but just real enough to tide people over.

Bioware was taken aback by how amazingly and how quickly that patch job failed.  That's on them. But the reason they "gave in" to fans so quickly was that they were already planning an add-on.

#9497
PerfectSmith

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In the spirit of answering the original question somewhere way off at the top of the thread. There were two stand out moments for me in the game, the first was Liara talking to femshep about her entry on the time capsule. The second was femshep and Anderson sat watching Earth from the Citadel. There were many many more besides that and to Bioware's credit everything but the last 10 mins of the game was a standout experience that I thoroughly enjoyed.

I guess that's why the ending felt like a kick in the quads. Yeah I'm a happy ending person where I can get it, but I'd have gone along with the general direction of the ending if it wasn't for the appearance of the god-child and plot holes Joker could pilot the Normandy through with his eyes closed. And honestly they felt so damn contrived.

Of the three, my ending was the destroy choice. The idea of controlling the Reapers just didn't sit well with me, I don't see why Shepard should suddenly be capable of controlling advanced sentient beings. And don't get me started on the Synthesis solution which brings peace about pretty much by magic. I'd argue whether a new synthetic-organic DNA would in actuality just be a different form of organic life and therefore wouldn't actually solve anything. "Oh hey our DNA is different now, and we all have PCBs on our skin therefore we totally wouldn't consider creating a purely synthetic lifeform....ever."

I won't lie, the short scene of the breath at the end made me smile (the preceding 10 minutes were horrendous so I'll take what I can get). But that was in no way my primary reason. And I hated the idea of sacrificing both the Geth who I had gone out my to save and EDI who I'd help evolve. But it was the best way I had of putting two fingers up at both the god-child and what I saw as a crass excuse for the cycle and it's subsequent solution. That synthetics and organics couldn't co-exist ever. By destroying the Reapers and the catalyst my best hope was that if synthetic life developed again organics would take better care to live with their creations. And if they didn't, well, I guess no-one said survival of the fittest doesn't include machines.

And sorry, while I'm here, I have to pick on this:

"We help them ascend so they can make way for new life. We store the old life in Reaper form." What, sorry what? You preserve an entire civilisation by turning it's members into a slush puppy and somehow putting their DNA milkshake in a reaper shaped cup preserves them? Are you kidding? Seriously this is the best you could come up with? Why bother? What's the point? If you'd have said Reapers like advanced race DNA flavoured jam on their synthetic toast it would be easier to swallow.

I could almost buy it if Reapers were forcing the advanced races to kind of meld their consciouness into one being, that represented that races culture, memories and achievements. But the idea that melting them down and retaining the DNA, somehow preserves that species is so daft it deserves a reward.

Modifié par PerfectSmith, 22 mars 2012 - 11:31 .


#9498
AkaXan

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anonymous137 wrote...

My main problems with the ending:
1) Ultimately your choices didn't matter. You can do everything completely different and it wouldn't affect the outcome of the game in the slightest. We were told numerous times that the endings were going to vary a lot based on what you did in the previous three games. We didn't get that. Instead, we have three endings which are, visually, almost identical.
2) The starchild being in control of the citadel makes you wonder why on earth sovereign went through all the trouble of reaching the citadel in ME1.
3) the starchild's logic makes no sense at all and is refuted by Geth/Quarian peace and EDI's "humanity"
4) The normandy's crash and your teammate's teleportation
5) No real closure as to the consequences of our actions. Did wrex keep the krogan in line? Did the geth and quarian peace last? etc.
6) Destruction of the Mass Relays. Arrival clearly established that this causes a supernova-like explosion that annihilates star systems. No matter what you do, the galaxy is still sent into the stone age.

What I would like to see in a fix:
1) Real variation in the endings based on choice and EMS
2) Removal of the "synthetics always destroy organics" or the ability to refute it
3) the ability to have a "happy" and a "reaper's win" ending based on EMS
4) Possibly doing something like the suicide mission where you choose ground units to support you in the battle to take back earth and vary the outcome based on that as well as EMS and choices.
5) I wouldn't mind the current ending sequence being an indoctrination attempt by Harbinger. I think it would be an interesting stage in the battle and it grants more freedom to write the new endings.


Couldnt agree more with your points. Its sad I went to play ME3 again and the will just died away Bioware has managed to kill the joy of playing the Mass Effect games for me with the stupid lets ignore player decisions that we promised would affect the outcome of our trilogy and instead use one that explains nothing and breaks our own game logic.
Artistic integraty is an easy card to pull when you've screwed up. Its the old you dont understand my work, so you cant say anything against it. I'm a Graphic Designer I've met countless people that have used it. Saddly one of 3 things has happned:
1 ) Bioware caved under the weight of their own promises and ignored player choise for and easier ride. Hoping players would just take it.
2) It was a last minute poor decision that has gone wrong and they couldnt fix it in time. This outcome only works if the Ending DLC turns out to be free as a gesture of will to long term fans.
3) It was always going to be this way with ME3, with the intenion to sell the real conclusion as a DLC pack later. Agian this assumes that fans woulld just roll over. Sadly given the speed that talk of DLC in April has come about, the pessamistic part of me is leaning toward this one.

Whats really frustrating is that ME3 could have been one of the truly great game trilogies. Bioware didnt have to answer everything as its expected to leave something to go forward with, but what we got, is just plain bad and no amount of debate and thoery is going to altter that. Like I said knowing now that our choices mean nothing throughout the 3 games kills all replay incentive for me and its asafe bet I'm not alone in that feeling. The question is where do we go from here, as who wants to buy and invest time into a game that a company promises, your actions will determine the outcome, only to have that never happen.
Regards, AkaXanImage IPB

#9499
GodEmperorAR

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I'm sorry to see that so many dislike the ending. I felt it was surprising yet awesome, I smiled at myself for worrying about decisions that seemed so insignificant compared to the whole picture that revealed itself to me. It was an emotional rollercoaster ride. If it had a mainstream Hollywood happy ending (what many people demand here...) I would have been much more unsatisfied. It was an exceptional ending for an exceptional trilogy.

I didn’t had any problems whatsoever with the ending, but with meeting every old acquaintance on every corner, felt a bit forced and the whole game felt like huge closure, an ending. Well at least we got to know what happened to everyone we ever met in Mass Effect .

Another negative thing for me were the too few squad mates, no krogan among them either :/
Anyway ME3 was still better than ME2 (I like ME1 still the most) where there was no real driving story just the intermezzo with the collectors and Cerberus, the main reaper story did not proceed during the whole game.

I do understand why people feel upset, I just wanted to point out, that I personally liked the ending and it gave me a vast emotional experience.

Modifié par GodEmperorAR, 22 mars 2012 - 11:32 .


#9500
Night_raven26_

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 [img]http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/PLn1M6jIdlNDFnOahjPExg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMwMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/blogs/ygamesblog/masseffect3-ending.jpg[/img]Mass Effect 3 (Bioware/EA)Never underestimate the power of an outraged fan base.Bowing to pressure from a loud segment of players, Bioware has announced that changes are in the works for the controversial ending to role-playing smash Mass Effect 3. Details about those plans will be revealed next month.In a post on the company's blog, Bioware co-founder Dr. Ray Muzyka said the criticisms were "incredibly painful" to the team, which had hoped to please fans with the game."The passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us," he wrote. "This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. … Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."The players who weren't happy with the ending of the game have been quite effective in voicing their displeasure. A 'Retake Mass Effect 3' Facebook page has amassed over 50,000 supporters, and an associated Twitter account has over 5,000 followers.One player even complained to the Federal Trade Commission, saying the endings amounted to false advertising on Bioware and EA's part.While Muzyka addressed the criticisms directly, he did note that the larger reaction to the game has been positive. The changes, he said, won't come at the artistic expense of the game. And he made it clear that the attacks that have accompanied the complaints will have to stop -- immediately."We're working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we've received," he said "[However]. some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example — has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary."

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