Ce sujet est fermé
Thanks to Bioware and their great team for three excellent games. I enjoyed all of them, up until the final 10 minutes of ME3.
First, my nitpicky criticisms. I would have liked to have seen a boss battle (or confrontation/dialogue) with Harbinger, rather than the child god machine. I would have liked to have seen some of those war assets in action (few turians, krogans, geth, quarians, batarians, or gangs were pictured in any of the Earth battle sequences). I thought the scene with the illusive man was confusing, but I suppose that part made enough sense.
For me, the game seems to go completely off the rails once Shepard goes up to meet the child god. Three options for Shepard, and all of them result in pretty much the same outcome regardless of your efforts in the entire trilogy. The chief difference is you get a different colored explosion, and some minor negative effects if your EMS is too low. No matter what, all the 'allied forces' are trapped on a decimated planet with no mass relay, your shipmates flee the solar system (seemingly abandoning Shepard) and get stranded on an alien world, and Shepard dies.
If you tinker with the ending, please explain why the "green" ending seems like the achievement the developers want us to choose - because it results in Shepards death every time. In one scenario, you get to briefly see Shepard alive if you do the renegade ending and kill EDI and the Geth - it seems counter inuitive to be rewarded for that. Another thing to tinker with - how did my squadmates get back on the Normandy after we were all blasted by the reaper beam on Earth? Liara comes out of the ship on the alien world, but theres no way she got back on the Normandy in time. And one last thing to tinker with, why not add a "return of the jedi' esque sequence where you explore people's reactions to the war being over, or perhaps a funeral scene for Shepard on Earth (that is, if you prevent it from getting charred).
I'm elated that there are planned updates in April, I'll happily pay to get these nagging questions resolved.
On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, mars 15 2012 02:55
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#9502
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:38
GamerByt3
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Hey fellow Retakers. I just wrote something to send directly to Bioware/to post wherever in response to both the tweet saying that they “never said they were changing the ending”, and also to the pervasive misunderstanding that all that we want from them is “clarification” of the existing ending.
Please read over the statement I’ve provided and discuss/re-post as you wish if you’re satisfied with its message/contents, and feel it properly relays your desires/intent. The viewpoints displayed within this statement were initially tailored to the users of a now locked thread, which prided themselves on "Holding the Line", and its intent is to make sure the fine people at Bioware and we the loyal consumers are on the same page on what exactly it is that we, the consumers want from possible future DLCs/patches that would adjust/replace/etc the ending of ME3 to be more in line with the consumers desires/Bioware's promises regarding content (specifically that of the ending). If they do not fit your views, please feel free to discuss/edit for yourself.
Here goes nothin'.
-GamerByt3
“I feel the desperate, frustrated need to clarify that the LAST thing we need from Bioware is “further clarification” on the current ending. I like to think I’m a relatively intelligent person. I’m pretty sure I understand the original ending that you provided just fine. I believe I am not alone in saying that we do not believe we require any further information on that topic.
Furthermore I can tell you, based on that knowledge and having heard over and over again from my fellow members of the Retake movement, that DLC, patches, or any other explanatory information we might receive giving us “further clarification” on the current ME3 ending INSTEAD OF a replaced--or at the very least, sufficiently revised--ending for ME3 will NOT be giving us what we want.
I’d like to assume that you DO have some ending DLC planned--as that which was evidently indicated by Dr. Muzyka--and just don't feel like confirming or denying it at this time.
But if that’s the case, what's the point of refusing to deny that you've got a satisfactory plan--following the above requirements--but also drop hints like that instance of one fan on twitter commenting (paraphrase) "sucks that my Shepard went gentle into that good night." and having one of your people respond (paraphrase) "Did he?"
This clearly implies that you have something up your sleeve--but COME ON. When you give us nothing, it's easy to assume that you're NOT listening like you say you are, and have NO intention of acquiescing to our perfectly legitimate and justifiable request.
The ending of Mass Effect 3 as it stands--whether or not it is eventually “clarified” being entirely irrelevant--is just a criminally crippling detraction from the otherwise sterling experience provided by the entire ME franchise up to that point. All we wanted was a satisfying conclusion, and what we got struck many of us as unresolved, unappealing, and unintelligible.
We have been lied to, and some feel cheated, and abused. That's why we ask Bioware to change the ending. Not because we are being “whiny,” or need some lofty, unattainable ideal ending we have plotted out in our heads. Simply because Bioware didn't deliver on their promises the first time--to be specific, that our choices would matter, that we would have more answers than questions, etc--we are ASKING nicely that they remedy their own mistake.
We, the Retake movement, see no need for further clarification than that.”
Please read over the statement I’ve provided and discuss/re-post as you wish if you’re satisfied with its message/contents, and feel it properly relays your desires/intent. The viewpoints displayed within this statement were initially tailored to the users of a now locked thread, which prided themselves on "Holding the Line", and its intent is to make sure the fine people at Bioware and we the loyal consumers are on the same page on what exactly it is that we, the consumers want from possible future DLCs/patches that would adjust/replace/etc the ending of ME3 to be more in line with the consumers desires/Bioware's promises regarding content (specifically that of the ending). If they do not fit your views, please feel free to discuss/edit for yourself.
Here goes nothin'.
-GamerByt3
“I feel the desperate, frustrated need to clarify that the LAST thing we need from Bioware is “further clarification” on the current ending. I like to think I’m a relatively intelligent person. I’m pretty sure I understand the original ending that you provided just fine. I believe I am not alone in saying that we do not believe we require any further information on that topic.
Furthermore I can tell you, based on that knowledge and having heard over and over again from my fellow members of the Retake movement, that DLC, patches, or any other explanatory information we might receive giving us “further clarification” on the current ME3 ending INSTEAD OF a replaced--or at the very least, sufficiently revised--ending for ME3 will NOT be giving us what we want.
I’d like to assume that you DO have some ending DLC planned--as that which was evidently indicated by Dr. Muzyka--and just don't feel like confirming or denying it at this time.
But if that’s the case, what's the point of refusing to deny that you've got a satisfactory plan--following the above requirements--but also drop hints like that instance of one fan on twitter commenting (paraphrase) "sucks that my Shepard went gentle into that good night." and having one of your people respond (paraphrase) "Did he?"
This clearly implies that you have something up your sleeve--but COME ON. When you give us nothing, it's easy to assume that you're NOT listening like you say you are, and have NO intention of acquiescing to our perfectly legitimate and justifiable request.
The ending of Mass Effect 3 as it stands--whether or not it is eventually “clarified” being entirely irrelevant--is just a criminally crippling detraction from the otherwise sterling experience provided by the entire ME franchise up to that point. All we wanted was a satisfying conclusion, and what we got struck many of us as unresolved, unappealing, and unintelligible.
We have been lied to, and some feel cheated, and abused. That's why we ask Bioware to change the ending. Not because we are being “whiny,” or need some lofty, unattainable ideal ending we have plotted out in our heads. Simply because Bioware didn't deliver on their promises the first time--to be specific, that our choices would matter, that we would have more answers than questions, etc--we are ASKING nicely that they remedy their own mistake.
We, the Retake movement, see no need for further clarification than that.”
#9503
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:39
aetheldod
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Well my favorite part was when Liara comes up to Shepards cabin with the "project¨she has made ... such an endearing scene and what I liked was how she saw Shepard ... that was my favorite part. Reasons why I think the "Stargazer" should´ve been Liara or a decendant from her , that would have made me tha happiest person on earth 
#9504
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:40
Cross429
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GodEmperorAR wrote...
I'm sorry to see that so many dislike the ending. I felt it was surprising yet awesome, I smiled at myself for worrying about decisions that seemed so insignificant compared to the whole picture that revealed itself to me. It was an emotional rollercoaster ride. If it had a mainstream Hollywood happy ending (what many people demand here...) I would have been much more unsatisfied. It was an exceptional ending for an exceptional trilogy.
*snipsnip*
Glad you enjoyed it. And let me first say: I love sad or ambiguous endings. It would have been terrible if ME3 ended with the Star Wars Medal ceremony. But very few people here are asking for a "happy" ending.....we're asking for one that makes any gosh darn sense at all.
I can't possibly get any satisfaction or emotional catharsis out of a series based on choice is consequences with an ending that declares: "ha ha, the galaxy was just going to explode: none of your efforts mattered." Based on relationships with characters that culminate with the all encompassing: "they're now going to live in the jungle!" No choice, no consequence, no significance to those relationships. You could have started ME1 in the Citadel "three giant kill switches" room and the outcome would have been exactly the same.
This simply isn't true to the artistry of this franchise. Braveheart ending with a B-22 bombing run on the Scots isn't complex or artistic. It's a cop-out, and a plot-holed, ill-thought-out one at that.
That said, I respect your opinion and again: am glad you're one of the few who managed to get something out of this ending. I have all the respect in the world for Bioware and, if it's as I expect, this was never intended to be the "real" ending. That may (apparently) disappoint you, but it's going to make a whole lot of others happy.
#9505
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:41
lillitheris
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The more sophisticated counterargument presented seems to be about "artistic integrity" - and I agree, artistic integrity is extremely important.
Take Jackson ******, for example. Some people will consider his work masterful, some think it’s just random dots of paint that idiots with too much money think is artsy.
That’s not what this is about.
This is some gallerist stealing a half-finished painting from ******’s studio and trying to sell it off, thinking nobody will notice. The suits at BioWare or (far more likely) EA shipped an unfinished work of art.
This undermines the actual work of art that the rest of the ME universe including ME3 is. The actual work of art that dozens or hundreds of people laboured over for years. Some suit just pooped all over it because they needed to push the game out.
I guarantee you that the artists – story, visual, audio, programming – at BioWare are not satisfied with the ending any more than the rest of us (and I’m putting it at 75% unsatisfied gamers).
...
I get the arguments about the ending needing to be happy, or unhappy (neither is inherently cliché, by the way, the cliché is how/why whichever was chosen and added – although if anything, the tragic hero seems the easy solution nowadays). I respect both sides, and that’s really more a question about how a certain artwork speaks to you than anything else. The multiplayer issue is a bit more nuanced – I personally believe it just hurts both those who don’t and those who do want to play MP . Does this justify demanding a new ending? Maybe not. I was also appalled - nay, aghast - at getting no information about the fate of my friends. Does this justify a new ending? Again, maybe not - but it should be explored somewhere.
What is unforgivable is the amount of logical errors. The arguments have been hashed and rehashed many times over, and I have one single question that no-one in the “don’t change the ending” camp has been able to answer:
Why does Shepard accept those three choices?
I mean, first of all, why would you believe anything the AI – your enemy – says? Wouldn’t it be your very first assumption that it’s trying to trick you? Being exhausted doesn't make a person compliant or stupid. It makes a person baser. Shepard is smart, and inquisitive.
That aside, even if you decide that it’s trustworthy: if someone – the entity that controls the synthetics I’ve been trying to destroy for years – gave me the completely nonsensical argument that it’s using the synthetics to kill people before they can create other synthetics that kill their creators…my first question is: can’t you just use your synthetics to kill the SYNTHETICS instead?
And here’s the crucial thing: I don’t care if the answer is “No, because screw you, that’s why!”
I just want to ASK.
And I can’t, because some suit who can’t tell a ****** painting from a discarded furniture cover from a paint job decided that they’d poop all over the art. That does justify demanding the game to be fixed.
Take Jackson ******, for example. Some people will consider his work masterful, some think it’s just random dots of paint that idiots with too much money think is artsy.
That’s not what this is about.
This is some gallerist stealing a half-finished painting from ******’s studio and trying to sell it off, thinking nobody will notice. The suits at BioWare or (far more likely) EA shipped an unfinished work of art.
This undermines the actual work of art that the rest of the ME universe including ME3 is. The actual work of art that dozens or hundreds of people laboured over for years. Some suit just pooped all over it because they needed to push the game out.
I guarantee you that the artists – story, visual, audio, programming – at BioWare are not satisfied with the ending any more than the rest of us (and I’m putting it at 75% unsatisfied gamers).
...
I get the arguments about the ending needing to be happy, or unhappy (neither is inherently cliché, by the way, the cliché is how/why whichever was chosen and added – although if anything, the tragic hero seems the easy solution nowadays). I respect both sides, and that’s really more a question about how a certain artwork speaks to you than anything else. The multiplayer issue is a bit more nuanced – I personally believe it just hurts both those who don’t and those who do want to play MP . Does this justify demanding a new ending? Maybe not. I was also appalled - nay, aghast - at getting no information about the fate of my friends. Does this justify a new ending? Again, maybe not - but it should be explored somewhere.
What is unforgivable is the amount of logical errors. The arguments have been hashed and rehashed many times over, and I have one single question that no-one in the “don’t change the ending” camp has been able to answer:
Why does Shepard accept those three choices?
I mean, first of all, why would you believe anything the AI – your enemy – says? Wouldn’t it be your very first assumption that it’s trying to trick you? Being exhausted doesn't make a person compliant or stupid. It makes a person baser. Shepard is smart, and inquisitive.
That aside, even if you decide that it’s trustworthy: if someone – the entity that controls the synthetics I’ve been trying to destroy for years – gave me the completely nonsensical argument that it’s using the synthetics to kill people before they can create other synthetics that kill their creators…my first question is: can’t you just use your synthetics to kill the SYNTHETICS instead?
And here’s the crucial thing: I don’t care if the answer is “No, because screw you, that’s why!”
I just want to ASK.
And I can’t, because some suit who can’t tell a ****** painting from a discarded furniture cover from a paint job decided that they’d poop all over the art. That does justify demanding the game to be fixed.
Modifié par lillitheris, 22 mars 2012 - 11:46 .
#9506
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:41
terrodexx
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Great job on Mass Effect 3 Bioware!
I had a lot of fun playing it, while I count myself in the group that was not happy with the endings, I REALLY enjoyed the rest of the game. Everyone I have talked to feels the same way, so don't get down in the dumps because we want some ending changes, by and large we loved the game and appreciate the efforts of the whole team
-G
I had a lot of fun playing it, while I count myself in the group that was not happy with the endings, I REALLY enjoyed the rest of the game. Everyone I have talked to feels the same way, so don't get down in the dumps because we want some ending changes, by and large we loved the game and appreciate the efforts of the whole team
-G
#9507
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:44
Alex_Dur4and
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**** Old post - it has been updated later in the forum ***
Hello Mass Effect 3 team!
Congratulations for such an epic serie. I went through so many different emotions going through almost 150 hours of intense gameplay. Rarely has a game absorbed me so much! Ok... Now, the meat of the subject - The Ending!!
First off... Here it comes... It was great!!! Yes! I said it and I will defend this!
HOWEVER...
Like most people, I found it rather inconsistant to say the least. I would even say... RUSHED!!! It
feels like I ate the best meal of my life and there are is soda crackers and water for dessert...
I have to admit I was disapointed... Disapointed because I was expecting much more. I wanted to beat the game over and over again to see all different endings you might have come up with... But the fact was that there was only one more or less same bittersweet polarizing ending...
I wanted to see many different endings... For exemple:
1. The martyr ending with your crew and love interest pay their respect at your final resting place.
2. The perfect Paragon ending. So corny that the through of it makes me want to puke.
3. The perfect Renegade ending with Cerberus as allies were you deliberately sacrifice races and crew members to get the job done.
4. The Reapers win ending (with the help of indoctrinated Shep and friends and you get to play a few missions like that with alternate appeareances before getting gruesomely processed in a horrible ending).
5. The super complicated hidden ending were Shep convinces the reapers to stop, rebuild and become galaxy guardians.
6. The ending when Cerberus controls the reapers and become drunk with power. Yes, you need to stop him... And his reapers will eventually be freed and destroy everything to repeat the cycle.
7. The "WTF" ending... Something deliberately stupid (like a "musical" ending were all, even the reapers, sing and dance on a corny broadway theme).
These endings (I just came up with) would have different consequences for the mass relays, the reapers, galactic civilization and the citadel. PLUS you have the ultimate power of choosing what ever happens next and what you beleive is the ultimate ending for the continuation of your "Work of Art".
There! It was nice to be able to take this of my chest... Keep up the good work! People may talk, people may be angry... this only proves that they care and love your work!! Take care!!
UNLESS...
You have something up your sleve... Like the indoctrination theory which was, to my mind, obvious!
I still have faith... The Mass Effect 3 crew are and have always been brilliant and, until the very last part of the story, have never disapointed me.
Hello Mass Effect 3 team!
Congratulations for such an epic serie. I went through so many different emotions going through almost 150 hours of intense gameplay. Rarely has a game absorbed me so much! Ok... Now, the meat of the subject - The Ending!!
First off... Here it comes... It was great!!! Yes! I said it and I will defend this!
HOWEVER...
Like most people, I found it rather inconsistant to say the least. I would even say... RUSHED!!! It
feels like I ate the best meal of my life and there are is soda crackers and water for dessert...
I have to admit I was disapointed... Disapointed because I was expecting much more. I wanted to beat the game over and over again to see all different endings you might have come up with... But the fact was that there was only one more or less same bittersweet polarizing ending...
I wanted to see many different endings... For exemple:
1. The martyr ending with your crew and love interest pay their respect at your final resting place.
2. The perfect Paragon ending. So corny that the through of it makes me want to puke.
3. The perfect Renegade ending with Cerberus as allies were you deliberately sacrifice races and crew members to get the job done.
4. The Reapers win ending (with the help of indoctrinated Shep and friends and you get to play a few missions like that with alternate appeareances before getting gruesomely processed in a horrible ending).
5. The super complicated hidden ending were Shep convinces the reapers to stop, rebuild and become galaxy guardians.
6. The ending when Cerberus controls the reapers and become drunk with power. Yes, you need to stop him... And his reapers will eventually be freed and destroy everything to repeat the cycle.
7. The "WTF" ending... Something deliberately stupid (like a "musical" ending were all, even the reapers, sing and dance on a corny broadway theme).
These endings (I just came up with) would have different consequences for the mass relays, the reapers, galactic civilization and the citadel. PLUS you have the ultimate power of choosing what ever happens next and what you beleive is the ultimate ending for the continuation of your "Work of Art".
There! It was nice to be able to take this of my chest... Keep up the good work! People may talk, people may be angry... this only proves that they care and love your work!! Take care!!
UNLESS...
You have something up your sleve... Like the indoctrination theory which was, to my mind, obvious!
I still have faith... The Mass Effect 3 crew are and have always been brilliant and, until the very last part of the story, have never disapointed me.
Modifié par Alex_Dur4and, 23 mars 2012 - 05:21 .
#9508
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:46
Bufardo74
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Not to hate on our buddy, Marauder Shields, but in retrospect, I kinda wish that batarian back on the Citadel had pulled the trigger. His motives made sense and in the end, as it currently stands, he was right.
Commander Shepard commits the single largest act of genocide in the known history of the galaxy aside from the Reapers given the choices we're pigeonholed into at the end of the game.
Commander Shepard commits the single largest act of genocide in the known history of the galaxy aside from the Reapers given the choices we're pigeonholed into at the end of the game.
#9509
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:50
pX NitmarE
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- 6 messages
In my opinion i would like a happier ending I'm just not the type to enjoy the whole epic hero dieing thing. No offense to your ideas.Alex_Dur4and wrote...
Hello Mass Effect 3 team!
Congratulations for such an epic serie. I went through so many different emotions going through almost 150 hours of intense gameplay. Rarely has a game absorbed me so much! Ok... Now, the meat of the subject - The Ending!!
First off... Here it comes... It was great!!! Yes! I said it and I will defend this!
HOWEVER...
I have to admit I was disapointed... Disapointed because I was expecting much more. I wanted to beat the game over and over again to see all different endings you might have come up with... But the fact was that there was only one more or less same bittersweet polarizing ending...
I wanted to see many different endings... For exemple:
1. The martyr ending with your crew and love interest pay their respect at your final resting place.
2. The perfect Paragon ending. So corny that the through of it makes me want to puke.
3. The perfect Renegade ending with Cerberus as allies were you deliberately sacrifice races and crew members to get the job done.
4. the Reapers win ending (with the help of indoctrinated Shep and friends and you get to play a few missions like that with alternate appeareances before getting gruesomely processed in a horrible ending).
5. A super complicated hidden ending were Shep convinces the reapers to stop, rebuild and become galaxy guardians.
6. The ending when Cerberus controls the reapers and become drunk with power. Yes, you need to stop him... And his reapers will eventually be freed and destroy everything to repeat the cycle.
These endings (I just came up with) would have different consequences for the mass relays, the reapers, galactic civilization and the citadel. PLUS you have the ultimate power of choosing what ever happens next and what you beleive is the ultimate ending for the continuation of your "Work of Art".
There! It was nice to be able to take this of my chest... Keep up the good work! People may talk, people may be angry... this only proves that they care and love your work!! Take care!!
#9510
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:51
jeweledleah
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Margurka wrote...
jeweledleah wrote...
MysticBinary82 wrote...
Margurka wrote...
Dunga780 wrote...
No matter what happens, I want Shepard to have a happy ending. Sappy, I know. But I believe games should be uplifting and the guy/gal deserves some R&R.
He's getting eternal R&R, I think he's earned it. Which is true for everyone's beliefs with exception of believing he goes to hell. In which case you're an ****.
If you beleave in such superstition then it is fine but I don't. I earned the right to have the choise of a good ending.
this. I don't beleive in afterlife. i beleive in making the best of whatever short time we have in this, only life we have.
also - if we take the endings at face value and do in fact beleive in afterlife - in control ending Shepard becomes the catalyst, spending eternity keeping reapers at bay (or deciding in 50k years that maybe the sycles are not such a bad idea) and in merge ending Shepard's essence is consumed and spread across the rest of the galaxy - to magicaly meld everything into organic/synthetic hybrids (still trying to wrap my head around how that would actualy work scientificaly). so I guess Shepard only goes to heaven if he/she destroys the reapers, by commiting Geth Genocide (and killing EDI) in a process?
I never said anything about an afterlife. Once you're dead that's the ultamite rest, afterlife or no.
what's the point of R&R if you are not there to enjoy it? I don't concider it to be rest and its definitely not recuperation. Shepard deserves better then that.
#9511
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:53
Questref
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Well, I've added my two penn'orth to the debate (via contact@bioware.com) - text copied below for anyone who's interested & wants to do something similar:
Dear Bioware,
In the wake of the player outcry over the endings to ME3 I understand that you have asked for constructive feedback, so here’s mine.
I’ve played through the ME series from day one, have bought every piece of DLC and have had hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of the games and have urged everyone I know to buy and play through them all. I completely bought into the idea of making the story my own by having my decisions influence the direction and outcome of key parts of the game, and my relationship with the characters within it. And I have loved it. It has been without doubt the best computer game I have ever played (& I’ve played and loved a lot of CRPGs from Eye of The Beholder to Baldur’s Gate, Neverwinter Nights and the KoToR series). I loved the character development, the NPC interctions, the Love Interest, the struggle to stay true to my character’s (paragon) ideals and the galaxy-spanning, heroic story. There were some minor things I didn’t like but nothing that could put me off the series. Until the last few scenes of ME3.
I really don’t understand what you did to the endgame or why you did it. Up until that point, the story of what happened to MY Shepard and MY galaxy flowed naturally from what had gone before, reflected my decisions and made sense. This ending didn’t. (And the whole section on Earth didn’t even match the tone, appearance or feel of the scenes shown in the ‘Retake Earth’ game trailers).
I expected (and wanted) to see my decisions reflected in the forces that were fighting on Earth – Geth, Quarians, Krogan, Turians and Salarians (and maybe even the Rachni queen) all there on Earth, fighting to defeat the Reapers and retake my home planet. I expected the fact that I’d successfully completed every side quest and optional mission to give me the optimal chance of a ‘good’ ending and the best chance of keeping most of my companion NPCs alive. Instead, I felt like I just got maths (i.e. if Effective Military strength => x, then outcome = y) and a choice of three outcomes that MY Shepard would never accept because they just didn’t fit with the decisions I’d made before. Each one looked like defeat and each one seemed to make all my prior decisions meaningless. (E.g. The fact that I’d allied the Geth & Quarians, and emancipated EDI was irrelevant – I was presented with a ‘fact’ that organics and synthetics couldn’t co-exist and forced down an utterly illogical decision path).
I wanted to experience the ‘Retake Earth’ scene from the trailer in MY game - leading my comrades and allies in a final battle that looked like the trailer looked where (if I did things right) the Earth (not just a post-apocalyptic ruin) could be saved and the Reapers could be defeated. In a sensible logical way. I.e. without destroying the Citadel and Mass Relay system and stranding all the allied alien fleets in the Sol system.
I wanted an ending where the chance of a ‘good’ outcome wasn’t influenced by the number of multiplayer sessions I’d played. (The ME series has always been about MY personalised story, not a shared one).
I wanted an ending where my closest allies and LI didn’t abandon me on Earth and bizarrely and illogically end up riding a relay-destruction shockwave through hyperspace and crash-landing on a strange planet. They should (and would) have been on Earth, fighting the Reapers with me until the bitter end.
I wanted an ending that showed the allies that I’d recruited after painful, difficult choices making a difference to the outcome.
I wanted the chance of earning an ending where my friends, my LI and I could survive to continue adventuring in the ME universe (or to settle down and raise blue babies!).
I wanted an ending with real choices where my final decision(s) made a material difference to the outcome.
But most of all, I wanted what I was promised in the pre-release statements and what was at the heart of ME1 and ME2 - an ending that reflected MY story and the choices I’d made over previous games and that gave me an ending that fit with what had gone before.
I didn’t get what I wanted. Nor, it would seem, did many other players. But this is what happens when you make such a superb game that promises a personalised, tailored experience, that sucks players in and makes them invest emotionally and intellectually in the story and then fails to meet their expectations.
For any other game, I would probably have shrugged my shoulders and said ‘meh’ before going back to Skyrim. But I wanted more, was promised more and expected more from ME3 because Bioware has shown, through what you have done before, that you are capable of delivering more than this and that MY story deserves a better ending than this, not just an explanation of the ending that's currently in place. Please put it right.
Dear Bioware,
In the wake of the player outcry over the endings to ME3 I understand that you have asked for constructive feedback, so here’s mine.
I’ve played through the ME series from day one, have bought every piece of DLC and have had hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of the games and have urged everyone I know to buy and play through them all. I completely bought into the idea of making the story my own by having my decisions influence the direction and outcome of key parts of the game, and my relationship with the characters within it. And I have loved it. It has been without doubt the best computer game I have ever played (& I’ve played and loved a lot of CRPGs from Eye of The Beholder to Baldur’s Gate, Neverwinter Nights and the KoToR series). I loved the character development, the NPC interctions, the Love Interest, the struggle to stay true to my character’s (paragon) ideals and the galaxy-spanning, heroic story. There were some minor things I didn’t like but nothing that could put me off the series. Until the last few scenes of ME3.
I really don’t understand what you did to the endgame or why you did it. Up until that point, the story of what happened to MY Shepard and MY galaxy flowed naturally from what had gone before, reflected my decisions and made sense. This ending didn’t. (And the whole section on Earth didn’t even match the tone, appearance or feel of the scenes shown in the ‘Retake Earth’ game trailers).
I expected (and wanted) to see my decisions reflected in the forces that were fighting on Earth – Geth, Quarians, Krogan, Turians and Salarians (and maybe even the Rachni queen) all there on Earth, fighting to defeat the Reapers and retake my home planet. I expected the fact that I’d successfully completed every side quest and optional mission to give me the optimal chance of a ‘good’ ending and the best chance of keeping most of my companion NPCs alive. Instead, I felt like I just got maths (i.e. if Effective Military strength => x, then outcome = y) and a choice of three outcomes that MY Shepard would never accept because they just didn’t fit with the decisions I’d made before. Each one looked like defeat and each one seemed to make all my prior decisions meaningless. (E.g. The fact that I’d allied the Geth & Quarians, and emancipated EDI was irrelevant – I was presented with a ‘fact’ that organics and synthetics couldn’t co-exist and forced down an utterly illogical decision path).
I wanted to experience the ‘Retake Earth’ scene from the trailer in MY game - leading my comrades and allies in a final battle that looked like the trailer looked where (if I did things right) the Earth (not just a post-apocalyptic ruin) could be saved and the Reapers could be defeated. In a sensible logical way. I.e. without destroying the Citadel and Mass Relay system and stranding all the allied alien fleets in the Sol system.
I wanted an ending where the chance of a ‘good’ outcome wasn’t influenced by the number of multiplayer sessions I’d played. (The ME series has always been about MY personalised story, not a shared one).
I wanted an ending where my closest allies and LI didn’t abandon me on Earth and bizarrely and illogically end up riding a relay-destruction shockwave through hyperspace and crash-landing on a strange planet. They should (and would) have been on Earth, fighting the Reapers with me until the bitter end.
I wanted an ending that showed the allies that I’d recruited after painful, difficult choices making a difference to the outcome.
I wanted the chance of earning an ending where my friends, my LI and I could survive to continue adventuring in the ME universe (or to settle down and raise blue babies!).
I wanted an ending with real choices where my final decision(s) made a material difference to the outcome.
But most of all, I wanted what I was promised in the pre-release statements and what was at the heart of ME1 and ME2 - an ending that reflected MY story and the choices I’d made over previous games and that gave me an ending that fit with what had gone before.
I didn’t get what I wanted. Nor, it would seem, did many other players. But this is what happens when you make such a superb game that promises a personalised, tailored experience, that sucks players in and makes them invest emotionally and intellectually in the story and then fails to meet their expectations.
For any other game, I would probably have shrugged my shoulders and said ‘meh’ before going back to Skyrim. But I wanted more, was promised more and expected more from ME3 because Bioware has shown, through what you have done before, that you are capable of delivering more than this and that MY story deserves a better ending than this, not just an explanation of the ending that's currently in place. Please put it right.
#9512
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:53
kofelover
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GamerByt3 wrote...
Hey fellow Retakers. I just wrote something to send directly to Bioware/to post wherever in response to both the tweet saying that they “never said they were changing the ending”, and also to the pervasive misunderstanding that all that we want from them is “clarification” of the existing ending.
Please read over the statement I’ve provided and discuss/re-post as you wish if you’re satisfied with its message/contents, and feel it properly relays your desires/intent. The viewpoints displayed within this statement were initially tailored to the users of a now locked thread, which prided themselves on "Holding the Line", and its intent is to make sure the fine people at Bioware and we the loyal consumers are on the same page on what exactly it is that we, the consumers want from possible future DLCs/patches that would adjust/replace/etc the ending of ME3 to be more in line with the consumers desires/Bioware's promises regarding content (specifically that of the ending). If they do not fit your views, please feel free to discuss/edit for yourself.
Here goes nothin'.
-GamerByt3
“I feel the desperate, frustrated need to clarify that the LAST thing we need from Bioware is “further clarification” on the current ending. I like to think I’m a relatively intelligent person. I’m pretty sure I understand the original ending that you provided just fine. I believe I am not alone in saying that we do not believe we require any further information on that topic.
Furthermore I can tell you, based on that knowledge and having heard over and over again from my fellow members of the Retake movement, that DLC, patches, or any other explanatory information we might receive giving us “further clarification” on the current ME3 ending INSTEAD OF a replaced--or at the very least, sufficiently revised--ending for ME3 will NOT be giving us what we want.
I’d like to assume that you DO have some ending DLC planned--as that which was evidently indicated by Dr. Muzyka--and just don't feel like confirming or denying it at this time.
But if that’s the case, what's the point of refusing to deny that you've got a satisfactory plan--following the above requirements--but also drop hints like that instance of one fan on twitter commenting (paraphrase) "sucks that my Shepard went gentle into that good night." and having one of your people respond (paraphrase) "Did he?"
This clearly implies that you have something up your sleeve--but COME ON. When you give us nothing, it's easy to assume that you're NOT listening like you say you are, and have NO intention of acquiescing to our perfectly legitimate and justifiable request.
The ending of Mass Effect 3 as it stands--whether or not it is eventually “clarified” being entirely irrelevant--is just a criminally crippling detraction from the otherwise sterling experience provided by the entire ME franchise up to that point. All we wanted was a satisfying conclusion, and what we got struck many of us as unresolved, unappealing, and unintelligible.
We have been lied to, and some feel cheated, and abused. That's why we ask Bioware to change the ending. Not because we are being “whiny,” or need some lofty, unattainable ideal ending we have plotted out in our heads. Simply because Bioware didn't deliver on their promises the first time--to be specific, that our choices would matter, that we would have more answers than questions, etc--we are ASKING nicely that they remedy their own mistake.
We, the Retake movement, see no need for further clarification than that.”
Actually, I would like the choice as to whether Shephard lives or not -- this is very important to me for replay value. In DAO, I actually picked the self-sacrifice ending first and then replayed to see other ending. As it stands now, there's just no reason to replay any of the three games because the ending(s) are all the same essentially.
Just my opinion -- whatever that's worth. Thanks for listening.
Modifié par kofelover, 22 mars 2012 - 11:56 .
#9513
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:03
helloween7
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this is another interesting commentary (sorry if it has been posted already, this thread advances faster than I can follow)
I think he's spot on on the key themes of the Mass Effect games, and I love the idea that the Crucible should have failed (I actually thought the same thing whan I was playing the game).
So, BioWare, feel free to take some pointers from this guy if you ever decide to revamp the ending.![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
I think he's spot on on the key themes of the Mass Effect games, and I love the idea that the Crucible should have failed (I actually thought the same thing whan I was playing the game).
So, BioWare, feel free to take some pointers from this guy if you ever decide to revamp the ending.
#9514
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:07
Randy Woolley
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So, let's see.
Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering
Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?
Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering
Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?
#9515
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:07
Badpie
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I keep flip flopping back and forth about whether I love or hate the ending. I think I had the advantage of hearing about the endings before they happened, which means I vaguely heard theories and I vaguely caught wind of the idea that dlc was possible (or should be possible).
After playing it, I suppose if I hadn't had that advantage I would have been really confused and upset by the ending. As well done as it was (for what it was) it didn't really fit with the rest of the game I thought, almost as if for the entire game they'd crafted this amazing piece of art and then brought in someone else to pen the last few minutes. I felt like even if it wasn't a happy ending it needed to be an ending. Since 2007 we've wanted to know what was going to happen at the end and what was the fate of our favorite characters. This ending seemed like a real cop out on that.
I found the ending interesting and powerful, but I'm not sure it was interesting and powerful in the right way. It's hard to reconcile years of "emotionally engaging" gameplay with an ending that wasn't. It was far more speculative and intellectual and while I appreciate the intelligence of it, that's not really what Mass Effect was all about.
Without dlc or some kind of expansion on the ending (which I always felt like was coming anyway) there are too many questions - and not really the good kind. Some of what should have looked like a smart twist just looked like negligent writing.
After playing it, I suppose if I hadn't had that advantage I would have been really confused and upset by the ending. As well done as it was (for what it was) it didn't really fit with the rest of the game I thought, almost as if for the entire game they'd crafted this amazing piece of art and then brought in someone else to pen the last few minutes. I felt like even if it wasn't a happy ending it needed to be an ending. Since 2007 we've wanted to know what was going to happen at the end and what was the fate of our favorite characters. This ending seemed like a real cop out on that.
I found the ending interesting and powerful, but I'm not sure it was interesting and powerful in the right way. It's hard to reconcile years of "emotionally engaging" gameplay with an ending that wasn't. It was far more speculative and intellectual and while I appreciate the intelligence of it, that's not really what Mass Effect was all about.
Without dlc or some kind of expansion on the ending (which I always felt like was coming anyway) there are too many questions - and not really the good kind. Some of what should have looked like a smart twist just looked like negligent writing.
#9516
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:09
sgreco1970
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LISTEN Bioware.
You asked for feedback, I'm giving you some.
After reading the innumerable "indoctrination theory" posts, blogs and vids, I have to say its a convincing argument. And if its true, if that's how it all actually went down, then bravo. What a brilliant ending. In fact, its not an ending, its a prelude to the real ending. Shepard fights indoctrination and, by choosing to destroy the reapers, breaks his indoc and awakens in the rubble of London. Now, with DLC, its time to finally fight the actual fight.
This I can live with. In fact, I love it.
If, however, it wasn't the case, or worse yet if it was but now you have decided to change it based on angry fans, then we're about to see the game go down the tubes. You can keep the integrity of the ending you've already made and, by continuing the fight after shepard lives (and giving the fans who want the binary choice of a good or evil ending based on their tastes and choices) supply them with an ending they will be satisfied with.
But if you choose to patch the game with a new ending, erasing what we've seen and giving the game a sudden, new ending then I for one would lose all respect. At that point, it isnt even about artistic integrity its just about shamelessly marring your game to suit the wishes of an angry mob. And if indoctirnation theory is correct, theyre an angry mob that didnt even get the ending they're bringing torches and pitchforks to.
Someone posted this, and I thought it was very, very good. have a look, just in case this was somehow NOT what you'd meant by the ending -because if it wasn't, it sure should've been...
You asked for feedback, I'm giving you some.
After reading the innumerable "indoctrination theory" posts, blogs and vids, I have to say its a convincing argument. And if its true, if that's how it all actually went down, then bravo. What a brilliant ending. In fact, its not an ending, its a prelude to the real ending. Shepard fights indoctrination and, by choosing to destroy the reapers, breaks his indoc and awakens in the rubble of London. Now, with DLC, its time to finally fight the actual fight.
This I can live with. In fact, I love it.
If, however, it wasn't the case, or worse yet if it was but now you have decided to change it based on angry fans, then we're about to see the game go down the tubes. You can keep the integrity of the ending you've already made and, by continuing the fight after shepard lives (and giving the fans who want the binary choice of a good or evil ending based on their tastes and choices) supply them with an ending they will be satisfied with.
But if you choose to patch the game with a new ending, erasing what we've seen and giving the game a sudden, new ending then I for one would lose all respect. At that point, it isnt even about artistic integrity its just about shamelessly marring your game to suit the wishes of an angry mob. And if indoctirnation theory is correct, theyre an angry mob that didnt even get the ending they're bringing torches and pitchforks to.
Someone posted this, and I thought it was very, very good. have a look, just in case this was somehow NOT what you'd meant by the ending -because if it wasn't, it sure should've been...
Modifié par sgreco1970, 23 mars 2012 - 12:10 .
#9517
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:13
GabrielK
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Randy Woolley wrote...
So, let's see.
Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering
Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?
It's not QUITE that simple though. Bioware both implicitly and explicitly encouraged and invited the fanbase to not only emotionally invest in the narrative, but to feel like they were taking part in shaping it, and to have a certain degree of ownership if you will. So of course people will react strongly, to the ending regardless of what it was. But reacting strongly in itself is not a good or bad thing. If the ending was (generally regarded as) good, there would have been a very strong positive reaction. If the ending was (generally regarded as) bad, there would be a very strong negative reaction (which is I believe, what we are currently seeing).
I think it's a little easier with passive media such as TV shows or movies to just put something out there and say "this is what it is." Not as easy with an interactive medium such as video games--especially one in which the fanbase is encouraged to heavily invest and share in ownership, albeit to a lesser degree than the developers. To ignore or deny that fact (from a developer standpoint) is I believe, to fail to see the inherent strengths/differences in your medium compared to other mediums.
#9518
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:15
liljoey40
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Loved it until the last 5 minutes destroyed 5 years of of an amazing set of games. I dont understand how they were planning on continuing the mass effect universe after this game since in ME2 they show us that when a mass relay is destroyed so is the WHOLE SYSTEM....which means, you know everyone is dead. And all the work you put into uniting the galaxy was for nothing. The worst part is though, is that it is an amazing game! Everything right up until the ending was pure brilliance.
#9519
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:21
DuncanId
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- 78 messages
Randy Woolley wrote...
So, let's see.
Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering
Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?
"Missing the point" don't even come close to describe that...
#9520
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:24
GamerByt3
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kofelover wrote...
GamerByt3 wrote...
*snip*
The ending of Mass Effect 3 as it stands--whether or not it is eventually “clarified” being entirely irrelevant--is just a criminally crippling detraction from the otherwise sterling experience provided by the entire ME franchise up to that point. All we wanted was a satisfying conclusion, and what we got struck many of us as unresolved, unappealing, and unintelligible.
We have been lied to, and some feel cheated, and abused. That's why we ask Bioware to change the ending. Not because we are being “whiny,” or need some lofty, unattainable ideal ending we have plotted out in our heads. Simply because Bioware didn't deliver on their promises the first time--to be specific, that our choices would matter, that we would have more answers than questions, etc--we are ASKING nicely that they remedy their own mistake.
We, the Retake movement, see no need for further clarification than that.”
Actually, I would like the choice as to whether Shephard lives or not -- this is very important to me for replay value. In DAO, I actually picked the self-sacrifice ending first and then replayed to see other ending. As it stands now, there's just no reason to replay any of the three games because the ending(s) are all the same essentially.
Just my opinion -- whatever that's worth. Thanks for listening.
Thank you for your input! I'm glad you shared your opinion with me. As more people respond, maybe I can tailor-make a statement straight from this thread to Bioware, encompassing and expressing plainly and courteously our 'grievances' with the current ending. That's the plan, anyway.
#9521
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:26
Cross429
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Randy Woolley wrote...
So, let's see.
Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering
Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?
Oh give me a break. That's ridiculous.
The point is not - emphatically not - that we're upset over Shepard dying. I had a strong hunch this would be the case: the anticipated sacrifice, as it were, and would by default pleased by the minor bravery of that ending. The "Star Wars Medal Ceremony" wouldn't have cut it.
But if the Mass Effect series had ended with Shepard dying of a drug
overdose before the final battle, would you be such a passive fan? How about Shepard dying because he tripped and fell out of the shuttle?
The objection is not to the death: it's that this death had no meaning, and in a series defined by decision and consequence, neither turned out to be worth a damn. There was no real decision; the consequences were the same no matter how you played.
The ending was cursory, slapdash, and lacking in any of the critical substance present throughout the first 99% of the series. An ending that invalidates all that has come before is not an ending at all....it's like pulling the wire out of your cable box and calling the movie "over." Golf clap.
So, please. The vast majority of the advocacy in the thread is for a substantive ending, not a happy one. You'd know that if you read more than a handful of posts before posting a larded haiku.
#9522
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:26
tkxboxer
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- 5 messages
I just feel there was vritually no closure on the characters you've made such an amazing journey with, surviving firefights, doing impossible missions. All the relationships and friendships, these amazing characters that are ready to die for Shepard, are loyal beyond measure. I just feel the endings left so much more to be desired, to see where the characters ended up. Plus the 3 different endings really do not seem to be that diverse, with exception of EDI living to the end depending on the ending you pick, the exact same thing happens, just destroy the mass relays and the joker ends up on a new planet.
Overall, I know this forum regards the ending, but just to include my overall critique, I feel the exploration that Mass Effect had encouraged so well in the first and second games was really trumped in this game. I'm not sure if there was a deadline on the game, but the whole expansion of the map felt rushed. Exploration was really minimized and side quests were far and few between. Things like Aria getting kicked off Omega by Cerberus I felt was an amazing opportunity for a side quest, to help her take back omega. I just feel the game was not a galaxy to explore but just touch upon and only have main missions. And the war assets collection system was just a system of implication, nothing to ever see as a result of collecting those assets. Possibly each asset you had find could have been a side quest, to protect a colony long enough for a scientist to escape, or extract critical intel. I just feel that much of what made Mass Effect great was short circuited in its final installment to accomodate Multiplayer and attract newcomers.
I look forward possible plot and gameplay remedies from you Bioware
- A loyal fan
Overall, I know this forum regards the ending, but just to include my overall critique, I feel the exploration that Mass Effect had encouraged so well in the first and second games was really trumped in this game. I'm not sure if there was a deadline on the game, but the whole expansion of the map felt rushed. Exploration was really minimized and side quests were far and few between. Things like Aria getting kicked off Omega by Cerberus I felt was an amazing opportunity for a side quest, to help her take back omega. I just feel the game was not a galaxy to explore but just touch upon and only have main missions. And the war assets collection system was just a system of implication, nothing to ever see as a result of collecting those assets. Possibly each asset you had find could have been a side quest, to protect a colony long enough for a scientist to escape, or extract critical intel. I just feel that much of what made Mass Effect great was short circuited in its final installment to accomodate Multiplayer and attract newcomers.
I look forward possible plot and gameplay remedies from you Bioware
- A loyal fan
#9523
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:27
Lochwood
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- 47 messages
Hey guys -- this is my first post on the BSN, though I have checked in over the years to check things like how a game mechanic works, or to see if someone else is seeing a particular glitch, etc. If anyone is actually reading this, please give me a nudge because I have a hard time believing anyone else but me is actually paying attention to the random add-ons.
I think what's amazed me most about this backlash is just how universal it is demographically.
About me: I am a 30-something professional. I have qualifications in law and management consulting. I understand the commercial angle to game development, and I was quick to defend Bioware re: the new DLC. I did so vocally, and (I think) eloquently on a number of gaming blogs and news-sites. But on the other hand, I am the kind of person who can't just become a fan of Marauder Shields on Facebook, because I don't want a client to ask me about it later. I'm sure there are any number of professionals who are in the closet about their geekery: whatever.
My point is, some of the posts on this and other threads have been so polished and articulate that they absolutely defy the stereotype of the basement-dwelling Dr Who fans who lurk websites for news on superhero movies for most of their waking hours.
I know I avoided the BSN for ages because I though that people's obsession with Tali and some of the other plot intricacies was bizarre and off-putting.
So, yeah. I'm just trying to give some context. I am not some crazed cosplaying teen who's raving about "teh evils of capitalism," and the indignity of paying for DLC. I love the new combat mechanic, and I find the multiplayer superb and worth playing. Any Bioware reps can check out my stats -- I've bought every single piece of ME2 and DAO DLC, and I bought "From Ashes" before I even played ME3.
I did this on faith, and I don't regret doing it, because I vote with my wallet.
It. Makes. No. Sense.
I would have loved a tragic end. I would have loved a bittersweet end. Me? I would have been happy had Shep seen a "Red Dead Redemption" end [I hope that's not too spoilery -- because all I'm saying is that RDR ended definitively, for good or ill]. I would even have been happy with a "Return of the Jedi" 100% happy end, with Salarian children playing a celebratory bongo-drum session on Marauder heads. All the endings to DA:O made sense and were satisfying, and people felt like their choice was theirs. I know how my Warden went out, and it's a definitive and complete story inside of my head.
I just have no idea what went down in the Citadel. I'm not actually thinking about it anymore. Most of us are now trying to figure out what went down in Edmonton and not in the skies above London -- and that signals to me a total breakdown of the emotional and narrative connection between the players and the artistic medium. Which would be fine if we didn't care. When the end to Fallout 3 presented me with an unsatisfying and illogical end, I just shrugged it off. Later, I bought the DLC and I admired Bethesda for fixing the problem, but I didn't really care then either.
I care now, and I am baffled. I have no idea why this still bothers me a couple of days later -- but it does. I feels like a ruined orgasm after some great lovemaking.
I'm not mad that there weren't diverse endings. I'm smart enough to see that there were endings all along, and that depending on who was alive or dead and decisions made that things can go down in *radically* different ways. Play the game with ten dead squadmates and see how different things are. It's pretty staggering, I'm sure. You guys may take it for granted that Tali can do a few things on Rannoch -- but Bioware had to map out what to do if she was hosed in the last game. They had to write so much additional dialogue and bring in so many additional voice actors: I'm sure it was staggering. There were diverse endings. All the press statements and interviews and hype -- we got what we were promised. Let me tell you as a commercial lawyer -- that FTC complaint is just an embarrassing pile of ignorance.
Sorry. I'm just going to tell it like it is because I want Bioware, assuming somebody accidentally reads this in Edmonton, sees that it's not just a bunch of unemployed nutters who can afford to sit and occupy their message forums for weeks endlessly writing "Hold the Line" to each other. This goes way beyond the usual fan ravings of people who have "I Support Thane Not Dying in Mass Effect 3 so That He Can Have my Frog Babies" signature graphics.
So, yeah -- there were diverse ends, and there was no bad faith or false advertising. But the very end -- the resolution. That was awful. Just an artistic fumble of staggering proportions. I actually made a couple of posts on other sites immediately after I finished to the effect that there was no way that that was really the end, and that Shep was going to have to get up and finish things in one way or another because why would Bioware, suddenly become incompetent at the very last second? [This was before I'd stumbled onto the indoctrination theory videos which take that denial one step further.]
And maybe that crawl-from-the-rubble and finish the story continuity still on the cards. Maybe it's on the cards now, but it wasn't before this whirling crapstorm started. I don't care. Give me a soaring soundtrack and Shep gratuitously jumping four meters into a hovering Normandy for a last second evac, or let me see his wake. I don't care -- but just go back and make this make sense.
Now -- my entire point is this. I hate this state of affairs. Kids who think that JRPGs are valid entertainment hate it. The multiplayer guys I've met who were keen to have a Gears of War analogue on the PS3 hate it. [Yes, these guys exist -- I've meet *numerous* people who a week after release had made zero progress on the single player]. People who did play it, but who rocked it in action mode hate it. Intelligent professionals hate it; action-gamers hate it; the ultra-invested Bioware guys hate it. It's universal.
I will pay for more and more sensible content.
Also -- I have ZERO interest in the future of the series in prequels. Regardless of what's occurred to the relays and the setting's galactic geopolitics, I think you need to go forward. Advance the story 100 years with replacements for the relays. Only 1% of the galaxy has been mapped -- show us all the other races and civilizations out there. The reapers relays are no longer there to keep the other societies from bumping into one another or advancing beyond static relay technology. Ancient China and Republican Rome never knew about each other, despite controlled VAST territories. What if there are whole new empires and confederacies -- and evils -- beyond the old networks.
No prequels. Advance the story. Kill Shep if he's holding things back. Or don't. But make the ending satisfying before the analysts get involved and you take a goodwill hit and the market starts to move. Your customers are basically one step from revolution, and it would be tragic for this to go beyond a short to mid-term revenue issue and spiral into a share price issue.
I should go.
Shepard, Esquire -- out.
I think what's amazed me most about this backlash is just how universal it is demographically.
About me: I am a 30-something professional. I have qualifications in law and management consulting. I understand the commercial angle to game development, and I was quick to defend Bioware re: the new DLC. I did so vocally, and (I think) eloquently on a number of gaming blogs and news-sites. But on the other hand, I am the kind of person who can't just become a fan of Marauder Shields on Facebook, because I don't want a client to ask me about it later. I'm sure there are any number of professionals who are in the closet about their geekery: whatever.
My point is, some of the posts on this and other threads have been so polished and articulate that they absolutely defy the stereotype of the basement-dwelling Dr Who fans who lurk websites for news on superhero movies for most of their waking hours.
I know I avoided the BSN for ages because I though that people's obsession with Tali and some of the other plot intricacies was bizarre and off-putting.
So, yeah. I'm just trying to give some context. I am not some crazed cosplaying teen who's raving about "teh evils of capitalism," and the indignity of paying for DLC. I love the new combat mechanic, and I find the multiplayer superb and worth playing. Any Bioware reps can check out my stats -- I've bought every single piece of ME2 and DAO DLC, and I bought "From Ashes" before I even played ME3.
I did this on faith, and I don't regret doing it, because I vote with my wallet.
It. Makes. No. Sense.
I would have loved a tragic end. I would have loved a bittersweet end. Me? I would have been happy had Shep seen a "Red Dead Redemption" end [I hope that's not too spoilery -- because all I'm saying is that RDR ended definitively, for good or ill]. I would even have been happy with a "Return of the Jedi" 100% happy end, with Salarian children playing a celebratory bongo-drum session on Marauder heads. All the endings to DA:O made sense and were satisfying, and people felt like their choice was theirs. I know how my Warden went out, and it's a definitive and complete story inside of my head.
I just have no idea what went down in the Citadel. I'm not actually thinking about it anymore. Most of us are now trying to figure out what went down in Edmonton and not in the skies above London -- and that signals to me a total breakdown of the emotional and narrative connection between the players and the artistic medium. Which would be fine if we didn't care. When the end to Fallout 3 presented me with an unsatisfying and illogical end, I just shrugged it off. Later, I bought the DLC and I admired Bethesda for fixing the problem, but I didn't really care then either.
I care now, and I am baffled. I have no idea why this still bothers me a couple of days later -- but it does. I feels like a ruined orgasm after some great lovemaking.
I'm not mad that there weren't diverse endings. I'm smart enough to see that there were endings all along, and that depending on who was alive or dead and decisions made that things can go down in *radically* different ways. Play the game with ten dead squadmates and see how different things are. It's pretty staggering, I'm sure. You guys may take it for granted that Tali can do a few things on Rannoch -- but Bioware had to map out what to do if she was hosed in the last game. They had to write so much additional dialogue and bring in so many additional voice actors: I'm sure it was staggering. There were diverse endings. All the press statements and interviews and hype -- we got what we were promised. Let me tell you as a commercial lawyer -- that FTC complaint is just an embarrassing pile of ignorance.
Sorry. I'm just going to tell it like it is because I want Bioware, assuming somebody accidentally reads this in Edmonton, sees that it's not just a bunch of unemployed nutters who can afford to sit and occupy their message forums for weeks endlessly writing "Hold the Line" to each other. This goes way beyond the usual fan ravings of people who have "I Support Thane Not Dying in Mass Effect 3 so That He Can Have my Frog Babies" signature graphics.
So, yeah -- there were diverse ends, and there was no bad faith or false advertising. But the very end -- the resolution. That was awful. Just an artistic fumble of staggering proportions. I actually made a couple of posts on other sites immediately after I finished to the effect that there was no way that that was really the end, and that Shep was going to have to get up and finish things in one way or another because why would Bioware, suddenly become incompetent at the very last second? [This was before I'd stumbled onto the indoctrination theory videos which take that denial one step further.]
And maybe that crawl-from-the-rubble and finish the story continuity still on the cards. Maybe it's on the cards now, but it wasn't before this whirling crapstorm started. I don't care. Give me a soaring soundtrack and Shep gratuitously jumping four meters into a hovering Normandy for a last second evac, or let me see his wake. I don't care -- but just go back and make this make sense.
Now -- my entire point is this. I hate this state of affairs. Kids who think that JRPGs are valid entertainment hate it. The multiplayer guys I've met who were keen to have a Gears of War analogue on the PS3 hate it. [Yes, these guys exist -- I've meet *numerous* people who a week after release had made zero progress on the single player]. People who did play it, but who rocked it in action mode hate it. Intelligent professionals hate it; action-gamers hate it; the ultra-invested Bioware guys hate it. It's universal.
I will pay for more and more sensible content.
Also -- I have ZERO interest in the future of the series in prequels. Regardless of what's occurred to the relays and the setting's galactic geopolitics, I think you need to go forward. Advance the story 100 years with replacements for the relays. Only 1% of the galaxy has been mapped -- show us all the other races and civilizations out there. The reapers relays are no longer there to keep the other societies from bumping into one another or advancing beyond static relay technology. Ancient China and Republican Rome never knew about each other, despite controlled VAST territories. What if there are whole new empires and confederacies -- and evils -- beyond the old networks.
No prequels. Advance the story. Kill Shep if he's holding things back. Or don't. But make the ending satisfying before the analysts get involved and you take a goodwill hit and the market starts to move. Your customers are basically one step from revolution, and it would be tragic for this to go beyond a short to mid-term revenue issue and spiral into a share price issue.
I should go.
Shepard, Esquire -- out.
#9524
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:27
NIBBLING ZOMBIE
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- Members
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Ending was horrible, didnt even feel like the first two games or the first 99% of this game. It was deppressing.
these games overall are awsome I just wish you wouldnt have dropped the ball like this at the finish.
these games overall are awsome I just wish you wouldnt have dropped the ball like this at the finish.
Modifié par NIBBLING ZOMBIE, 23 mars 2012 - 12:31 .
#9525
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 12:30
AwefulShot
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Mass Relays. I don't think they 'exploded' as such. Check out the ending(s), the 'explosion' is nothing major, in fact it is very local to the relay. I don't believe the pulse from the Citadel caused the type of destruction that the Arrival was mentioning. We know the actual 'pulse light' doesn't kill/destroy (see ground scene).
