23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Cross429]

sgreco1970 wrote...

LISTEN Bioware.

You asked for feedback, I'm giving you some.

After reading the innumerable "indoctrination theory" posts, blogs and vids, I have to say its a convincing argument. And if its true, if that's how it all actually went down, then bravo. What a brilliant ending. In fact, its not an ending, its a prelude to the real ending. Shepard fights indoctrination and, by choosing to destroy the reapers, breaks his indoc and awakens in the rubble of London. Now, with DLC, its time to finally fight the actual fight.

This I can live with. In fact, I love it.

**snip**

Someone posted this, and I thought it was very, very good. have a
look, just in case this was somehow NOT what you'd meant by the ending
-because if it wasn't, it sure should've been...

Amen, brother. Amen.

I think it was; though. If you step a back moment you see that the situation Shepard finds himself in (an elevator bathed in white light leading you to a magic room with three giant switches which determine the fate of the galaxy in three pre-determined ways, conveniently built for Shep before he arrives), you have to think either: 1) The writing here is terrible or 2) This is the "Indoctrination" we've heard so much about the past three games. When have we known Bioware to be guilty of #1?

[CuseGirl]

AwefulShot wrote...

Mass Relays. I don't think they 'exploded' as such. Check out the ending(s), the 'explosion' is nothing major, in fact it is very local to the relay. I don't believe the pulse from the Citadel caused the type of destruction that the Arrival was mentioning. We know the actual 'pulse light' doesn't kill/destroy (see ground scene).

Well didn't the Ghost Boy clearly say in the destroy option, the relays are destroyed? And the video made it seem like all of the endings resulted in a special power released from the Mass Relays which would be damaging.....

[Timberley]

Randy Woolley wrote...

So, let's see.

Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering

Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?

That's not what this is about for quite a few people (myself included).  You are completely missing the point (maybe intentionally).  I can accept the idea of the main character dying (in some heroic manner - after all, isn't that what fantasy stories are about?) to save the galaxy.  However, I find the idea that the sacrifice of the main character still essentially destroys the galaxy, no matter which way you do it, so what was the point in the first case?

Argueably Shepard's death was telegraphed from the first game onwards, but that's by the by.  In most epics of that ilk, the sacrifice of the hero usually leads to society being enriched by their journey and the trials they have faced along the way.  In this case, however, Bioware have gone for an ending that not only ensures the hero's sacrifice, but seemingly the detriment of society. 

It may be a case of co-author intentions being disconnected from the messages that their other co-authors were getting.  In which case the primary co-author (Bioware) have failed completely.  The main message I took from the first two games were that by getting everyone to work together (despite their differences) any adversity can be overcome in a satisfactory manner.  The third game seems to go for that same message until the last minutes, at which point the lesson becomes 'no matter what you do you (as a collective) are still doomed'.  A somewhat drastic tonal shift in the last minutes, wouldn't you say? 

Tim

Edit:  Just read a couple of comments before mine, and I find the idea of a post-relay ME universe intriguing and somewhat exciting.  Certainly much more exciting than the idea of prequels because after all - we know what happens at the end.

Modifié par Timberley, 23 mars 2012 - 12:42 .

[No_MSG]

Randy Woolley wrote...

So, let's see.

Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering

Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?

You're thinking Sherlock Holmes, by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

[StargateTroopr]

Im not sure how far you guys are able to go with changing the ending but at the very least id love to see a fourth option that reflects all your acquired military strength built up where you can kill the reapers the good old fashioned way or find new tech for the weapon that fine tunes the weapon so that it only targets reapers like their eezo cores blow up or somthing. Also im of the group that would love to see shepard reunite with his squad mates and love interests that is interactive like at the end of ME1 and this beautiful saga is fully deserving of an epilog like with liara 500 years later or somthing, little blue children included if that happens to be the players choice lol love my blue alien.

[Blue Liara]

Anyone else see that they closed the thread on the accusation that Bioware is in PR damage control?

But don't worry there listening

[deej55]

I dont know about you guys and girls, but  the "shepard being indoctrinated for a bit" theory is looking better and better.

[CuseGirl]

Timberley wrote...

Randy Woolley wrote...

So, let's see.

Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering

Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?

That's not what this is about for quite a few people (myself included).  You are completely missing the point (maybe intentionally).  I can accept the idea of the main character dying (in some heroic manner - after all, isn't that what fantasy stories are about?) to save the galaxy.  However, I find the idea that the sacrifice of the main character still essentially destroys the galaxy, no matter which way you do it, so what was the point in the first case?

Argueably Shepard's death was telegraphed from the first game onwards, but that's by the by.  In most epics of that ilk, the sacrifice of the hero usually leads to society being enriched by their journey and the trials they have faced along the way.  In this case, however, Bioware have gone for an ending that not only ensures the hero's sacrifice, but seemingly the detriment of society. 

It may be a case of co-author intentions being disconnected from the messages that their other co-authors were getting.  In which case the primary co-authro (Bioware) have failed completely.  The main message I took from the first two games were that by getting everyone to work together (despite their differences) any adversity can be overcome in a satisfactory manner.  The third game seems to go for that same message until the last minutes, at which point the lesson becomes 'no matter what you do you (as a collective) are still doomed'.  A somewhat drastic tonal shift in the last minutes, wouldn't you say? 

Tim

This tonal shift is espeically troubling when we were explicitly told by developers that if we really hit the pavement in ME-3, by doing as much as we could (side missions and galactic readiness), we would get something worthwhile.....Yes, maybe I'm being selfish but in my 2nd playthru when I had high EMS and 99% galactic readiness, I thought i was gonna stand on top of a dead Reaper on Earth and then a few weeks or months later, go find Miranda. What is so wrong with that? And I could handle getting that ending only if I maximized my resources. If I didn't, I died but the destruction of the Mass Relays is just ridiculous....

[AwefulShot]

CuseGirl wrote...

AwefulShot wrote...

Mass Relays. I don't think they 'exploded' as such. Check out the ending(s), the 'explosion' is nothing major, in fact it is very local to the relay. I don't believe the pulse from the Citadel caused the type of destruction that the Arrival was mentioning. We know the actual 'pulse light' doesn't kill/destroy (see ground scene).

Well didn't the Ghost Boy clearly say in the destroy option, the relays are destroyed? And the video made it seem like all of the endings resulted in a special power released from the Mass Relays which would be damaging.....

I don't think he mentioned the Mass Relays - only that Synthetics would be destroyed.  I'm not convinced the Mass Relays were a type of synthetic life, just machines.

The point I was making was the actual explosion part wasn't on the solar system rending level - as mentioned in the Arrival.  And that the 'pulse of light' wasa not a destructive pulse for non-synthetics (if RED).

Modifié par AwefulShot, 23 mars 2012 - 12:50 .

[Edleen]

I've written several posts that have been overly emotional. I'm sorry about that and I apologize. So I came to the conclusion that if you want more constructive criticism, I'll give your complete answer. I'm a big fan of BioWare since the days of Baldur's Gate, it was a great game. There was also a brilliant Jade Empire. And of course, Mass Effect. I would also note that I am a big fan of space opera, I love Star Trek, and books by Arthur C. Clarke. Mass Effect has become a model and a high film directing. Why do I argue for a happy ending in ME3? I'm sure connoisseurs of the genre will understand me, space opera canon prescribed happy ending's. Shepard has come a long way and I think deserved a happy ending. Sincerely, a fan of your work.

[Lochwood]

GholaHalleck wrote...

We don't even need to talk about "Control" but I will. It was TIM's plan all the way. Entirely. And you know what? My canon Shep is currently forced to take this route. Because I can't abide the Relays going down. At least ReaperShep can set the deathbee's to work fixing them. My CanonShep pulls a Leto ll, and that's the only reason I can stomach it.

"Having to stomach it" should not be something I have to say about a bioware ending.

 

I think you're wrong, brother. I think when you chose to control the reapers you passed on your wishes and then expired. You willed them to return back to deep space, and then you were burned to cinders by waves of blue energy. The galaxy has been saved, but you are dead. Dead and gone. No more instructions are sent to the Reapers, and they exit the galaxy at speeds far beyond conventional FTL based on your single, final, command.

Dead.

How's that make you feel?

[Omnike]

Cross429 wrote...

Randy Woolley wrote...

So, let's see.

Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering

Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?

Oh give me a break. That's ridiculous.

The point is not - emphatically not - that we're upset over Shepard dying. I had a strong hunch this would be the case: the anticipated sacrifice, as it were, and would by default pleased by the minor bravery of that ending. The "Star Wars Medal Ceremony" wouldn't have cut it.

But if the Mass Effect series had ended with Shepard dying of a drug
overdose before the final battle, would you be such a passive fan? How about Shepard dying because he tripped and fell out of the shuttle? 

The objection is not to the death: it's that this death had no meaning, and in a series defined by decision and consequence, neither turned out to be worth a damn. There was no real decision; the consequences were the same no matter how you played.

The ending was cursory, slapdash, and lacking in any of the critical substance present throughout the first 99% of the series. An ending that invalidates all that has come before is not an ending at all....it's like pulling the wire out of your cable box and calling the movie "over." Golf clap.

So, please. The vast majority of the advocacy in the thread is for a substantive ending, not a happy one. You'd know that if you read more than a handful of posts before posting a larded haiku.

It's that the ending was just not well written. Plotholes and inconsitincies aplenty. 

[No_MSG]

My concern is that the choices presented in the end are not reflective of choices offered Shepard in the rest of the series. Once my new best friend rattled off the choices I had, I wanted to just say no. I did say no, I shot the image in the head, and I walked back to the elevator. Starting with the logic "Synthetics and Organics will never get along," I knew I would resist whatever it said. And then, I was not allowed to.

Throughout the rest of the series, I was allowed to make decisions that were reckless, and potentially suicidal (letting the rachni live, turning on a geth in the normandy, releasing a tank bred krogan.) But now, I'm just going to go along with some AI that I just met, and have less reason to trust than anyone else.

Just let me say no.

[JGRIEGER]

First of all, I wanted to say that Mass Effect 3 was an amazing game.  Once I picked it up I couldn’t put it down.  The game play, the changes made from ME2, the returning characters, the missions, (I could go on and on), I loved it all.  It is an amazing game and I cannot wait to import my second Shepard and play through the game again.  Nothing will be able to change how much fun I had playing through Mass Effect 3.

That being said, I did have an issue with the ending of the game.  The main issue for me is the closure aspect.  I have put in well over 100 hours playing through these games.  While game play has always been important to me, one of the major things that has kept me coming back to Mass Effect and Bioware are the relationships and the storyline.  While playing through these games I became attached to these characters.  Garrus was my most trusted ally.  Wrex was a proven warrior who eventually became a loyal friend.  Joker, while filling the hilarious sidekick role, was a comrade through thick and thin.  Ashley was my love interest throughout the entire series.  Time was taken to build these relationships throughout the three games.  The same holds true for the storyline.  I made certain decisions throughout my 100 hours of game play that kept me hooked to the series.  Would the Rachni queen show up again if I spared her life?  How would the Salarians react when I worked to aid the Krogan?  Questions like these kept me deeply immersed throughout my Mass Effect experience and kept me wanting more.  I was so entrenched in the storyline and relationships that had been built.  I was very excited to see how it would all be brought together.

And then I beat Mass Effect 3.  I watched the final scene and through the entire credits.  No closure.  I didn’t know how my decisions throughout the story affected the final battle.  I had no idea what happened to my squad mates after Harbinger had with me before Harbinger fired his laser.  I had no idea what happened to Ashley or EDI or James in another section of London.  I had absolutely no idea why Joker fled the battle we had been working towards for three games, nor how he crash landed on a jungle planet.  And how did Ashley get into that ship?  I had far more questions after this scene then I did before it, and the lack of closure was very disappointing.  Throughout the three games I wanted to see how all of these stories ended, how my choices and relationships mattered.  The ending was a let-down as it really didn’t tell me anything about anything.

Personally, I believe that Shepard was definitely indoctrinated at the end of the game.  Why else would Anderson be portrayed as the Renegade option and the Illusive Man as the Paragon?  Why is Shepard seen breathing only after choosing to destroy the Reapers?  These facts, along with many others, lead me to believe that the Indoctrination Theory is indeed true.  I think that this is an AMAZING plot twist to what was already an amazing story.  My problem with it, however, is that this provides no closure.  If Shepard is alive after choosing to destroy the Reapers, then what happens next?  Does he rise from the rubble and finish the fight?  Do his squad mates rescue him?  I love the indoctrination idea, and I strongly believe that it makes sense.  However, what happens post-indoctrination is what will provide closure to the battle, closure to the war, and closure to the storyline.

Overall, Mass Effect 3 is an amazing game.  As I’ve said, I’ve spent numerous hours playing it and plan on spending many, many more.  The only issue that I have with the entire game is the fact that I don’t know what’s become of my decisions throughout the game.  I don’t know what’s become of my squad mates that I’ve built these relationships with throughout the series.  A sense of closure, be it good or bad, would be a welcome end to what has been an amazing series of games.  I look forward to seeing the coming DLC and have faith that people’s concerns regarding the ending will be heard.

[Hollywoood]

That's good to know you are taking the public into account^_^. What I liked about Mass Effect 3, the style. locations. I liked running into random people who would be in a conversation and listening in to see the full effect of the war. I really loved EDI and Javik, Tricia Helfer does amazing work. I liked the conculsion of who Shepard romanced. However I missed the old squad much more varity then the first game.

The guest spots for old characters from ME2 were golden. You handled their stories and ultimately if they died very well! Mordin's demise was one of the best scenes in the game. It made the transition from ME2 easier to take. At the beginning of the game it felt like they forgot all about ME2 and the people Shepard was saving the universe with. 

I liked the intensity of the of the finale battle, storming the Illusive man's ship, the radio chatter, the feeling that this was the end of the series. But I wonder how your readiness percentage fractored into it all. In my opinion it didn't seem to matter if you had 65% or 100% ready to go. 

I loved this series and finally the end was here. I was excited. I know it's a game, but after playing it for three games straight I was ready to meet the end. After watching everything that happened. I felt disappointed. Not angry, or sad, just disappointed. I will play mass effect 1-3 again. It didn't spoil the franchise or brand name but I wanted it to end like the previous games. Shepard taking out the big bad, saving the day and sailing off in the Normandy to face the new threat or retiring. Just alive.

I would pay to have another ending, don't change what you have some people like it but maybe DLC of an alternative "happy" ending.

What I didn't like.

The cover system was unresponsive somtimes, the story was a little open ended. The journal gave you some hints to where to go but nothing like the first game where they pinpointed the location. The Citadel fetch quests were a massive improvement over planet scanning for resorces or the Mako- man I disliked the Mako- but they were still fetch quests that took away from the over all urgency of the story. I felt the music could have been more intense or heartfelt, it did nothing to inspire me. Here me out, Journey for PS3 (even though it's an entirely different game) had the the most wonderous music to accompany the character through the game it made all the difference. Oh and the nightmare's, did not enjoy the trip into Shepards mind when there has been no previous trips before. It felt unnecessary.

Finally the star child/ghost thing. Where did he come from? How can he control the Reapers? Who put him there? And who in their right mind would give anyone that much power to destory and for that reason. The reasons it was doing this cycle thing with the Reapers did not ring true with everything that happened. The Reapers were the big bad, if anything I felt that Shepard should have faced them not this avatar. Also the end of Shepard. No matter paragon or renegade, no matter the choice

Anyway thank you for the journey, I look forward to Dragon Age 3. And thank you for letting me play female in your games that will always be a selling point.

Cheers.

[Mria]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

People can't deny mass effect was epic even with the endings, it was a very emotional expirience till the end and the day after i finnished the game i just couldn't stop thinking if i've made the right choices and reviewing all the possible ideas of what bioware was hoping the players to see and the fans speculation i have to say it was a brilliant, and the possible DLC will be a tremendous hit of market publicity wich, if made right, will get u guys VGA 2012 (if the world doesn't end before that) easily.

Now for that to happen im pretty sure some ppl will agree to me that Bioware team MUST listen to us and avoid that mistake that EA called "command and conquer 4" (just to mention one of many around there), Bioware can win alot if they learn from past mistakes and make sure that this possible ending marks evry goal this game has being holding into it since the beggining.

I hope some ppl sympathises with what im saying and agree that mass effect in a long shot is one of the games that made them belive that games are still what they were ment to be.

An enjoyable expirience wich i have to say it was one of the best. 

[AwefulShot]

Cross429 wrote...
How about Shepard dying because he tripped and fell out of the shuttle? 

I can't get this picture out of my head now! 

Shepard exits the shuttle;

Shepard: "Right Reapers meet your do... arrrrhh!!!!"

<stunned silence>

Garrus: "Bugger."

[Anzer]

Hey Bioware, just finished my playthrough of ME3.
*SPOILERS*
Wanted to say, "Thanks for everything. While the ending wasn't my 'picture perfect happy times for everyone', it (organic and synthetic synthesis; AKA: Green Beam) was hopeful (with Joker, EDI and Tali walking out of the Normandy) and I thoroughly enjoyed it."
I'll be looking forward to future content for this game. If some of that future content were to be a scene of Shepard and Tali relaxing in their new home on Rannoch with Garrus visiting, I wouldn't complain.

[Darth Tardness]

The game was fantastic, and I liked the ending's concept. I just wish a little more was explained in regards to what Joker was doing and how he rescued my squad-mates. Also, I think the ending was more powerful due to Shepherd's sacrifice. Whatever Bioware feels should be changed, at least do not change that. Actually, don't change a thing! I'd just like to know more about the aftermath, what happened to my team, and more about the Reapers and Catalyst.

By the way, everyone, Shepherd was not indoctrinated. I think there is a lot of evidence supporting that. That would be the worst ending of all. If you don't think your choices mattered, how do you think making Shepherd indoctrinated would change that?

[Mythrialus]

Is anyone else wondering why in ME2 the Normandy's Thannix Canon was about to take down the Collector's Mothership which I'm sure was covered with Reaper tech, but in ME3 it's never fired once? I got the impression that thing could seriously damage a Sovereign-class Reaper, maybe even take one out. Any thoughts?

[Darth Tardness]

If anyone was indoctrinated, it would have been Anderson since he was in close proximity to Reapers for so long a time.

[Wingzero87]

Mythrialus wrote...

Is anyone else wondering why in ME2 the Normandy's Thannix Canon was about to take down the Collector's Mothership which I'm sure was covered with Reaper tech, but in ME3 it's never fired once? I got the impression that thing could seriously damage a Sovereign-class Reaper, maybe even take one out. Any thoughts?

No idea, my import says that still had the cannons, the upgraded shields and armour. I thought I did see it get fired in the final battle, but I could be wrong. 

Given the damage from two thanix missiles could do to a destroyer, I think that it would be possible for those cannons to do some real damage. But since they were Turian design, they may be simply wrote off as not being advanced enough. 

[jeweledleah]

Cross429 wrote...

Randy Woolley wrote...

So, let's see.

Author makes story
Fans love story
Author finally kills off main lead
Fans revolt and go crazy
Fans hold author against will and threaten harm
Author refuses to change story
Fans torture author to rewrite ending
Author begrudgingly agrees to rewrite ending to end the suffering

Is this Mass Effect by BioWare or Misery by Stephen King?

Oh give me a break. That's ridiculous.

The point is not - emphatically not - that we're upset over Shepard dying. I had a strong hunch this would be the case: the anticipated sacrifice, as it were, and would by default pleased by the minor bravery of that ending. The "Star Wars Medal Ceremony" wouldn't have cut it.

But if the Mass Effect series had ended with Shepard dying of a drug
overdose before the final battle, would you be such a passive fan? How about Shepard dying because he tripped and fell out of the shuttle? 

The objection is not to the death: it's that this death had no meaning, and in a series defined by decision and consequence, neither turned out to be worth a damn. There was no real decision; the consequences were the same no matter how you played.

The ending was cursory, slapdash, and lacking in any of the critical substance present throughout the first 99% of the series. An ending that invalidates all that has come before is not an ending at all....it's like pulling the wire out of your cable box and calling the movie "over." Golf clap.

So, please. The vast majority of the advocacy in the thread is for a substantive ending, not a happy one. You'd know that if you read more than a handful of posts before posting a larded haiku.

ummm - plenty of us DO want shepard to survive, however, that comparison to Mysery was so off base, it s hard to see as anything other then a troll attempt to illisite exactly the response of "no, we don't want Shepard to survive!

while yes, most of the concern is related to bioware misrepresenting the endings, as well as the fact that they don't relaly fit lorewise and theme wise, we WOULD like to have an OPTION to keep Shepard alive.  please don't deny it to those of us that do.  its hard enough to stand against "you are just a whiner, accept the endings, they are art"  crowd.  having to stand against people who are supposed to be on your side as well is just.. beyond discouraging.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 23 mars 2012 - 01:17 .

[Killmoves37]

May i bring up a glaring question with the ending?
In the final moments when you get blasted by the reaper, the major guy says that everyone is gone, and that nobody survived. How exactly does he not only miss shepard clearly walking toward the beam of light, but also miss Anderson leave the tank, and apparently super sprint past shepard through the light and to the console at the end?

Indoctrination is really the only answer. Otherwise it makes no sense at all.



Watch it and you'll believe it's indoctrination as well.

[IhateEA3]

I don't mind if shep dies, the reapers are pretty terrible and him/her dying does go with the "underlying theme of sacrifice". The only thing I didn't like about the ending is once you get to earth it feels kinda rushed. Then obviously everything after the beam hits you just doesn't make sense. If the indoctrination theory is false then why would Joker be in a mass relay with the people who assaulted the beam? Srsly the rest of the game was amazing. I'm only now getting involved because of the BBC interview. I'm sure you guys did what you thought was best and I know there are tons of fans who just want the ending to make more sense. No hate here, just asking you to make the ending way more clear, specifically the ending cutscenes. Hang in there guys!