23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

I have played the game 2 times now and have to say that I thought it was really good except for the ending. My only other complaint was the lack of time and closure on the LI front. I truly hope the indoctrination theory is right and that we get to find out who lives and dies in the final battle and that there is better closure especially on the LI front.

[PrimeOfValor]

I'm okay with the endings, but just add more clarity and fix the plot holes surrounding the ending. Plus I'm played paragon with my BroShep in all 3 games in the mass effect series, I was hoping you guys at Bioware at least add one ending when Shepard walked out battle victorious and get to embrace with his or her LI("liara").

[Johanna]

Throwing in my support for the Indoc Theory. Make it so!

[AntenDS]

CuseGirl wrote...

The indoctrination theory, while largely plausible, falls flat because nothing comes after it. I didn't play this game to overcome indoctrination. I played this game because I thought I was actually going to stop the Reapers. Like FOR REAL, kill/destroy/eradicate the Reapers. And if the indoctrination theory is correct, then Bioware/EA dropped the ball in making sure without any doubt I was fighting indoctrination in the end and they also should have included a playable mission or video scene where I truly definitively kill/lose/integrate with the Reapers.

Was Bioware/EA trying to Ron Howard us?

In Ron Howard's "A Beautiful Mind", there are small instances where a viewer MAY realize Nash is losing his mind, like the little girl running thru the birds and the birds don't move. The birds didn't move because the girl wasn't real.

But eventually, Howard had the decency to COMPLETELY reveal Nash's sickness. Once Jennifer Connelly opens that garage, there is no denying that what you've seen is really Nash's sickness. But that wasn't the end. They showed us the nadir of Nash's sickness, the electric shock treatments, him hiding his medication. How it effected his wife and child and his friends. And you were shown how Nash and his wife drudged thru those issues, sad, happy, enraged, ALL OF IT. And at the end, Nash sat down at that table and his colleagues presented him with their pens, a sign of respect and professional courtesy.

Sorry for anyone who hasn't seen that movie. But that's how we should have felt at the end of ME-3.

In ME-3, it appears, they didn't open the garage. And they didn't even sit Shepard down at that table and give him those pens. I earned 6599 EMS and a galactic readiness of 99%. I want my pens.

This is one thing i didn't think about if the indoctorination theory is correct. That would mean the game isn't finished and it will need DLC to finally complete it. There is no true end to the game as over coming indoctrination wouldn't save the galaxy on its own. There is no point in either game where Shep questions his mental state and countless times up to the mission right before the assualt on Cerberus that he isn't indoctrinated. Only other explaination is that Shep uploaded himself into the Catalyst via his implants some how. The only choice where he would of gotten back to his body would be destorying the Catalyst.

[PrimeOfValor]

Oh, one last thing, Please add a boss fight against harbinger simlar to the repears in Rannoch and Earth. ("I need an Orbital Strike").

[wsandista]

bigmass41 wrote...

Oh, one last thing, Please add a boss fight against harbinger simlar to the repears in Rannoch and Earth. ("I need an Orbital Strike").

There was a great boss fight, Marauder Shields was that boss.

[Berehir]

I don't ever post on forums ... I guess I'm part of the silent majority everyone keeps referring  to, and it's strange to me that I feel compelled to write this.  But such is the state of things I guess, and they did ask for feedback so ....

First off I want to say thanks to Bioware for what was, as has been stated, the first 98% of the game was the best game I have EVER played.  I mean that.  I loved all of it ... especially  the parts where Shep is walking around the Citadel interacting with his crew.  I laughed pretty hard at "My name is Garrus Vakarian and this is my favorite part of the citadel!" and other moments like that.  The emotional side of this game is unparalleled by anything else in the market.  The action portions were smooth, challenging at  times,  and enjoyable, and the transitions from action  to cinematics were superbly done.  You all put in a ton of hard work and it showed

Sadly, you all threw all of it away in the last 10 minutes.  I've never before had the feeling of wanting  to throw my controller at the TV when I finished a game.  The reasons are well documented and I have no other input to add on why I feel it was THAT bad.  They're the same as everyone else who has voiced displeasure.  No sense Rehashing the gory details.  I had 5 playthroughs lined up.  With  the game in it's current state, I cannot bring myself to waste my time since I know badly it all ends.  That is not to say I feel my time in ME1 and 2 were wasted ... I loved every minute of them.  In fact, in their own merits, they are outstanding games.  But I will not put them on my PC or xbox again.  There's absolutely no reason too (and I was highly thinking of going back and savings Maelon's research among other things)

Let me continue by saying that I do not feel  that I Bioware OWES me anything, but there is a flipside to that coin - Neither do I owe Bioware any more of my capital or time.  They produced, marketed and sold a product.  I consumed the content that was provided and found the final quality of the entire delivered product is not worth continuing  the relationship between consumer and producer at this time.  What Bioware chooses to do next will decide if that relationship is re-established or permanently severed.

All of the discussion as to what happend and why I feel is somewhat irrelevant.  At the end of the day, I think Bioware grossly miscalculated the reaction of the ending.  Whether or not  the ending was meant to be stand alone or if Indoctrination Theory was the intent all along, is not really relevant in my opinon.  I do think they got too clever for their own good.  Whether it was groupthink, rogue writers/producers, pressure from EA to wring more $$ from us ... whatever.  It doesn't really matter.  I say this because I beleive the only response that is made on  this issue will solely be driven off of the bottom line.  Bioware can spout all the drivel about 'artistic integrity' that they wish too.  Disgruntled fans can hang their hat on what they feel they/or the franchise are owed all they want.  Bioware will make a decision that is good for their bottom line ... that's it. If they feel that the negative press and the resulting loss of potential sales of units and dlcs outweighs the cost of producing new content (assuming it doesn't already exist - Indoctrination Theory), then they will act accordingly because at the end of the day, they are not in the business of making 'art' ... there is no money in art (at least until after the artist is dead).  They develop, produce, market, and sell widgets.  It just so happens, those widgets are video games.  Anything else is just spin.

I dearly hope that Bioware decides to earn my business again by fixing this issue properly.  I am not particularly hopeful, however.

[Cross429]

JGRIEGER wrote...

Personally, I believe that Shepard was definitely indoctrinated at the end of the game.  Why else would Anderson be portrayed as the Renegade option and the Illusive Man as the Paragon?  Why is Shepard seen breathing only after choosing to destroy the Reapers?  These facts, along with many others, lead me to believe that the Indoctrination Theory is indeed true.  I think that this is an AMAZING plot twist to what was already an amazing story.  My problem with it, however, is that this provides no closure.  If Shepard is alive after choosing to destroy the Reapers, then what happens next?  Does he rise from the rubble and finish the fight?  Do his squad mates rescue him?  I love the indoctrination idea, and I strongly believe that it makes sense.  However, what happens post-indoctrination is what will provide closure to the battle, closure to the war, and closure to the storyline.

Bingo.

And along with 400 other things: you shoot Anderson and suddenly have a wound in the same place, the black Reaper FX bordering the screen, the fact that the ending "dream" is fully consistent visually and functionally with the other dreams throughout the game.....

Hell, the fact that - as we've established here - the ending makes very little sense. Unlikely that Bioware - creators of the first 99% of the same game - simply made 400 mistakes in the games' last 10 minutes and decided to "screw it."

Closure is coming. It's coming sooner, or at least they're having to announce it now and maybe offer it for free, because the fans spoke up. The "temp ending" didn't hold for nearly as long as they thought it would.

[dormouse03]

To those at BioWare who may be monitoring these forums and to any fan that may take the time to read this post,
 
I completed Mass Effect 3 several days ago. Since that time, I have been discussing it with friends, reading posts online, watching videos, and doing a lot of thinking. I have tried to decide how best to communicate my thoughts and feelings. I rarely comment or post on forums or online accounts, but I felt that I would do a disservice to myself to remain one of the unheard voices because it is assumed that people who remain silent are providing tacit approval. I wish to remain constructive and to speak for myself.
 
I am a huge fan of BioWare and of the Mass Effect series in particular. I believe that the Mass Effect games are hands-down the best video games of this generation and possibly of all time. This opinion has not been changed by Mass Effect 3. I loved almost every minute of the game. I was completely immersed in the experience. I cared immensely about the characters and worlds that were created. The conversations that you overhear between crew members are brilliant and add so much richness to their characterization. Many of the storylines that began in the first two games are so beautifully resolved throughout the campaign, and you are able to see how your decisions have shaped the lives of those around you. Mordin's sacrifice for the Krogan, Thane's sacrifice for the Council, Grunt's valiant charge off a cliff with the indoctrinated Rachni, calling upon the Mother Thresher Maw to destroy a Reaper, resolving the Quarians' conflict with the Geth. These moments, among others, resonated with me on an emotional level. They were powerful and beautiful. BioWare, I thank you for those moments.
 
However, when I arrived at the end of the game, like so many others, I found myself suddenly detached. The immersion that I had experienced throughout all three games was jarringly interrupted. While I believe that, (with many assumptions being made on my part and a large suspension of logic) I can understand where the writers were trying to go with the Catalyst (if the ending, as it is presented currently, was the intended final conclusion), it felt wrong somehow. It was only after spending several days thinking and conversing with others that I fully understand why it felt so wrong.
 
There have been many posts by many people detailing the inconsistencies with prior plots and themes and citing the feeling that none of your choices affect the conclusion. I do not wish to be repetitive, and I will point to this compilation as a nice summary of everything that does not make sense to me regarding the ending sequence:
 
https://docs.google....bilebasic?pli=1
 
To sum this up concisely, there are many plot holes and downright contradictions during this 5-10 minutes, and I was left feeling that I was being forced into deciding between 3 choices which did not make sense to me, did not fit the rest of the story, and did not fit the character of Commander Shepard. I agonized over several decisions throughout the game, taking time, considering the consequences, and attempting to choose the path that I felt was right. For this final decision, I did not agonize. I felt disconnected from all of the choices because I did not fully understand what I was choosing, why I was making the choice, or what the consequences might be. I chose almost arbitrarily, and then I did not understand the ending cinematic at all. I replayed the events, only to find that no matter which option I chose, the end did not result in a comprehensible, satisfactory conclusion. In fact, the consequences of my choice were nearly identical and almost identically negative. 
 
I did not feel like a hero, and that is why I was so dissatisfied. I must admit, I am one of the fans who desperately wanted the opportunity for Shepard to triumph over the Reapers and live to tell about it with at least some of her (I am a femShep) comrades. If Shepard absolutely had to sacrifice herself, I wanted it to mean something. When I was forced into making this sacrifice, I felt it was ultimately meaningless, because the catastrophic results to all of the people that I had come to care for were the same in each scenario. I found no hope in the end. 
 
I desperately tried to find hope in what I was given, to no avail. Even if the destruction of the Mass Relays did not cause catastrophic explosions (which is a big leap of faith, but let's go with it), the ending rendered all of my work from the past 3 games, and from Mass Effect 3 in particular, pointless. Why help Wrex unite the Krogan and allow Mordin to sacrifice himself to cure the genophage if the majority of the male Krogan (and all of the ones that I care about) are now likely permanently separated from their home? Why did I help the Geth and Quarians arrive at peace to ultimately coexist on Rannoch when none of them will likely ever get back there? Why did I unite a galaxy, only to see most of them stranded in an unfamiliar system that does not have the resources to provide for them, and are unable to return to their homes (this includes the illogical crash landing of the Normandy on an unknown planet)? If there is some hope for them to return to their homes, I did not see a glimmer of it in the ending. 
 
Even the sequence with the old man and child gives me no hope that the people who I gave my life to save lived to rebuild galactic civilization. This scene takes place at an unknown time in the future. Even when the Reapers wiped out all advanced organic life, evolution provided that other organic life evolved to become advanced in the future. With the information we are given, there is an equal chance that these people could be the result of the evolution of less advanced species rather than the descendants of those left alive after the war. They (or their ancestors) could have found Liara's time capsule, and that could be how they know about "the Shepard." I realize this is not the implication, but it is equally likely considering we are given no indication of what happens to those we leave behind. This "future generation" is meaningless to me. I care about the people I know and have developed relationships with throughout the games.
 
Aside from this, I believe that what is most disappointing for me is the inconsistency in the quality of writing. BioWare has an incredible creative team, and I have had complete faith in them for many years. The writing, acting, animation, music, gameplay, etc. have been simply incredible, and Mass Effect 3 is no exception. I have thought over and over that this cannot be the true ending to this amazing trilogy. Every piece of the story has been crafted with such meticulous attention to detail and nuance that I cannot fathom that the same team created an ending with such a large amount of holes and inconsistencies. It goes against everything that I believe that this is how they really intended the end to be.
 
I think this is something that many people are going through. We cannot make sense of it. It contradicts our sense of what is right in the world. Similarly to how the Council didn't want to believe that the Reaper threat was real, because doing so would violate their sense of a "just world" (like how people watch horrible things happen on the news and don't become anxiety-ridden hermits, because they believe, however illogically, that this could never happen to me. This happens to other people). We want to do everything we can to deny that what happened, really happened.
 
Why a team of incredibly talented writers would choose to employ Deus Ex Machina is baffling to me. When I say this, I refer to the literary plot device, not the video game of the same name (although they also share many similarities). This plot device refers to a narrative ending in which a God, godlike entity, or magical event is inexplicably and improbably used to bring the story to a conclusion. In Greek tragedies, Gods entered at the end of a play to resolve an otherwise hopeless situation. However, this type of "magical ending" has been almost universally criticized from the time of Aristotle. An ending should arise in an organic way from the plot that has unfolded throughout the rest of the story. Why the team chose to end Mass Effect in this way makes absolutely no sense to me. It defies logic. My brain literally hurts from trying to imagine some reason why this choice was made.
 
One attempt to make sense of things, the indoctrination theory, makes so much more sense than what we were told to believe by the game. It is summed up beautifully in this video:
 

 
It helps us continue to have faith that BioWare did not suddenly hire an entirely different set of people to create the ending. I just hope that faith isn't in vain. If this was the plan all along, it is genius, the kind of brilliance that I attribute to the BioWare team. I have my doubts about the theory's veracity, but it brings me hope, which is in short supply after witnessing the "ending."
 
Finally, I would like to comment on Mr. Muzyka's statement posted yesterday. I respect that he stands behind his team, as he should. I have hope that their steps to resolve the feedback are genuine. However, I have been thinking about all this talk about "artistic integrity" as he puts it, and comments that I have seen about how fans providing a critique or asking for a change/extra content is childish and disrespectful. I agree that some have taken it a bit too far. Approaching the government, making demands of BioWare, and attempting to file lawsuits all seem like unreasonable actions to me. However, sharing your thoughts with the developers, expressing how you have been disappointed, puzzled, or heartbroken by one particular section, and asking for a renovation of that section, does not feel like something for which fans should be criticized.
 
I was thinking this morning, that this game is like Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel. What we have is a situation where the Church told Michel to hurry up and finish, so instead of painting God, he painted a stick figure instead. Now, if the person looking at the painting puts their hand up to obscure "God" they can enjoy a masterful work of art.  However, it's hard to ignore the fact that their hand is blocking something completely inconsistent with the surrounding work, something that tarnishes it, and ultimately prevents it from being the true masterpiece that it deserves to be. We just want Michel to come back, and give us the real God. It's not just for our benefit. It is for the benefit of future generations of game developers and players to be able to create something glorious and truly artistic, and for the benefit of BioWare, who should not have their master work marred in this way.
 
If I created a beautiful drawing, something that critics and viewers lauded as fantastic, beautiful art that should go down in history (a "10"), and then a large amount of people pointed out that there was a smudge that kept it from being truly grand, you're damn right I would want to go back and take out that smudge.  Even if I had deliberately placed the smudge there to achieve an effect that I thought was pleasing.
 
And I don't think it is wrong for consumers to ask for a change.  We are the ultimate patrons of art.  We have come into an age where people seem to believe that art exists as something completely detached from the consumer, something that exists solely for the creator's enjoyment as the fruit or their imaginations, or for the artist to make some kind of statement to others.  However, this is not the case, or at least, it is not in keeping with how art was created in the past.  Artists were contracted by patrons to create works for that patron, for a city, etc.  Michelangelo and his team were contracted by the Catholic church to paint the Sistine Chapel. They gave him creative license to paint it in his style.  If he had drawn a stick figure instead of God (maybe he's an atheist and wants to make a statement), they would have demanded that he change it.  When you think about it, we, the fans and customers who buy the games, have contracted BioWare to create Mass Effect 3 by purchasing the first two games. If we had not bought and loved the first games, they would have never been able to create the final entry in the trilogy.  I think this means that we are completely within our rights to criticize an element of the game and ask for a fix where a fix is possible.  We aren't saying that the game was completely awful and that they need to go back to square one, on their dime, and create something else.  We are saying that we love the game, exactly as it is, except for one piece.  This piece can be fairly easily amended with a bit more work.  And if we need to pay for that work, I would be happy to do so if it means that I get the masterpiece and not something that is very good, but not truly magnificent. If you hire someone to paint your house, and you don't like one particular section because he ran out of paint, you buy him more paint.

I realize this could potentially open up a can of worms in which developers might fear that publishing any game could result in demands from players to change one thing or another, and then later when changes are made, a different group demands a different change. I do not want this any more than the developers do. However, developers go back and release patches to fix bugs and make other changes all the time. Often content is made available for players to add to their experiences. Fallout 3 even changed the ending to the game at the request of players, and the result was fantastic. This is simply one piece of content that many Mass Effect fans want to see, and it could be provided in addition to the content that is already available, not necessarily replacing it.

In regard to artistic integrity, I agree that video games can be considered art. However, they are not art being created simply for art's sake. They are created for the enjoyment of others and hopefully to satisfy consumers and make money for their creators so that they can continue to create. When you consider all of these purposes, I do not believe it cheapens or disregards an artistic vision to make alterations. There have been many instances in which artists in other mediums (literature, television, cinema, visual arts, and yes, video games) have responded to the requests of their fans to bring back a character, make a change to a painting, or include alternate endings in bonus content. In most cases, the art is better for it, at least in the eyes of those who enjoy the book/show/movie/painting/game/etc. Aren't those the people art is created for in the first place?

In the end, it is not any fan's decision to make. I am still hoping that this is all part of an ingenious plan by BioWare that will ultimately leave us in awe. I have not lost my faith in the company. Ultimately, we will all have to wait to find out what they decide to do. Until that time, I will continue to play Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3. I will continue to enjoy the series.  My only regret is that my heart will hurt a bit every time I arrive at the end and am forced to close my eyes, listen to the amazing soundtrack, and imagine the ending that, in my opinion, should be there.

Modifié par dormouse03, 23 mars 2012 - 02:01 .

[Lochwood]

jeweledleah wrote...

ummm - plenty of us DO want shepard to survive, however, that comparison to Mysery was so off base, it s hard to see as anything other then a troll attempt to illisite exactly the response of "no, we don't want Shepard to survive!

while yes, most of the concern is related to bioware misrepresenting the endings, as well as the fact that they don't relaly fit lorewise and theme wise, we WOULD like to have an OPTION to keep Shepard alive.  please don't deny it to those of us that do.  its hard enough to stand against "you are just a whiner, accept the endings, they are art"  crowd.  having to stand against people who are supposed to be on your side as well is just.. beyond discouraging.

Well, my Shepard survived. If yours didn't, then perhaps you should have to live with the consequences -- or else replay the relevant sections and make different choices. Build up your military strength and choose the red ramp.

Those of you who want Thane to live on to give you frog babies, or who want gratuitous changes in tone are a very, very small minority. In fact, the overarching dissatisfaction has been misinterpretted by most of the media through the lens that we all want the ending to be changed so as to let Shep ride off into the sunset on a unicorn.

We don't. Most of us are angry with the inconguities and tonal shift and lack of clarity and the confusing and hurried last-second exposition.

I just refuse to believe that the guys who built the catalyst made a machine which could shoot out galactic-green-koolaid which formed a "new DNA" for life across 70,000 light years or so. Because that would seem to require quite a lot of energy.

Sure -- it could totally go down in Dragon Age. Some elder god could use magic to do whatever; tap into the maker's ancient heaven, or whatever -- but this is Mass Effect. There are SOME laws of physics to consider. Read the codex from Mass Effect 1 -- they're incredibly well conceived and considered. Somebody puzzled out gravity and the effect of heat in warship-combat; the effect of mass effect fields on small arms and the related issues of heat and recoil; everything is internally sensible. Even biotics make sense as the effect of element-zero on natural evolution.

No. Suddenly Space Magic.  I mean, doesn't there have to *some* proportionality between the scope of the outcome and the energy required to fire it?

Think again about how big space is. At full FTL, it would take about ten years for the Normany to fly from Earth to Rannoch. That's a lot of empty room. How much energy would be required to TRANSFORM ALL DNA in that area? 

Do I think that a writer could make a story about fusing organic and synthetic life, and make it good?  Sure. Could it be shoehorned into the Mass Effect universe with *five minutes notice* through a raygun?  No. No, I don't.

And remember -- the Citadel-raygun and it's ENORMOUS energy reuirements has had to be built so that it can not only do total galactic DNA transformation, so that many light years away Joker's SR-2 hat can be redrawn with glowy circuitry details added to the cotton-fibres, the Catalyst ALSO has to be specced so that it can destroy all the Synthetic life in the galaxy.  Which, presumably, is also a pretty complex function. 

Now, onto the notion of artistic integrity and holding to the orginal conception for the series' end. At the start, Garrus and Tali were never expect to be romance options because they're -- basically -- horrible cloven-hoofed monsters that the developers never expected players would be interested in. That's a fact. Even the romance dialogue with them reflects how awkward and ... odd... it seems.  Watch Garrus' initial dialoge with Femshep in ME2 if you've never bothered: it's pee-pee funny as he puzzles out what the ramifications are in respect of plumbing.

Yeah -- so they never thought of induction-port-love, but all along we were supposed to be headed for a Green-end which would allow people to get their reproductive nasty on with Geth primes and Luna base. Think about that. Joker is giving the goods to LUNA BASE's computer. Their galactic robo-babies are founding a new society in the same jungle world that only produces food toxic to Tali and Garrus. 

THOSE are (some of) the problems. The utter madness of the proposed ends -- not the fact that people want more rainbows and unicorns. Anderson's death is beautiful and poignient; Shep's should be too. Or else heroic. Or else bittersweet -- ANYTHING but insane and beyond my ability to suspend disbelief.

A wizard did it!

[luci90]

I'm amazed at just how many people, from different places around the world can come together and agree that something is quite wrong.

It restores my faith in humanity a bit.

Hold the line.

[Cross429]

pants witch wrote...

Throwing in my support for the Indoc Theory. Make it so!

Welcome to the club.

Those who claim it's desperate or grasping at straws ignore everything complied:

Here: http://m.fanfiction.net/s/7920772/2/

Here: 

And here: http://www.giantbomb...nce/35-539298/.

You're telling me that the Bioware writers - who the vast majority here think are brilliant - simply didn't take any of this into consideration? After discussing Indoctrination and Shep's mind otherwise being compromised in subtle but consistent ways throughout the game?

Gimme a break. Doesn't mean the DLC will go with it, but does mean they were thinking about it and the ending as it stands reflects it pretty heavily.

Bioware may indeed be "shocked" because of the number of people not picking up on this....

[Cross429]

Those of you who want Thane to live on to give you frog babies, or who want gratuitous changes in tone are a very, very small minority. In fact, the overarching dissatisfaction has been misinterpretted by most of the media through the lens that we all want the ending to be changed so as to let Shep ride off into the sunset on a unicorn.

We don't. Most of us are angry with the inconguities and tonal shift and lack of clarity and the confusing and hurried last-second exposition.

Pretty frustrating, right? Shows that the mainstream media has a way to go in terms of reporting on interactive entertainment.

And Bioware knows this. They're a GREAT company: I still believe that fully, and have since the first Baldur's Gate.

But there must be a profit-making temptation here to "defend what they put out" and play it like the fans are rejecting a dark conclusion. Silly, considering the relative sophistication of the active fan base.

In the end: I have faith. Bioware, to a degree, has acknowledged that they've messed up. There's been no acknowledging all the discrepencies between the sort of ending that was consistently promised and what we've received, but Dr. Ray is way ahead of the curve when it comes to games as an art form. There's a reason he didn't just claim "artistic integrity" and dismiss the criticism (with MASSIVE media assistance belittling what we're saying here): he's better than that. And so's his company.

[OzgunRonin]

First of all, thanks for this wonderful triology and I really like to see the 4th one (including Sheperd of course I think every endning has its ways for survival... )

Secondly I would like to answer the question which I heard lots of time... "what is the point of playing the game (or lots of crap like that) if gonna die in the end?"  The answer is : to enjoy. Mass efffect is a roleplayig game and the roll playing games has only one purpose having a good time... Secondly it is similar with life, every body is going to die you know, but we live to write our own stories. In mass effect 3 we played to finish our story.

The problem with the endings is they are so bluntly choosen and not related with the former actions... I think that is caused by the Idea that Bioware is ending Sheperd. But the ending style is not very different that baldursgate... I'm pretty sure if there was a shep. alive ending there wont be that much quarel.

It is also amazing that people so aborbed to its realty that says things like " how they build the mass relays again". I would like to show you an example :

"A senarist will write: A group of scients has discovered the techology of mass relays. "

Just like that So please listen all the things we say but dont care the feeling. You have done a greate job in these 3 games.

One last thing: Never forget, the ending determines the last taste of the phenomena... Please remember the starwars... Darth Vader was the evil character for the 3 movies who harmed lots of people for 20 years (as the luke skywalker grows) in the end he threw his master to a hole (which can be also defined as trison) but he has lined with the good characters in the end...

Lets have some DLC which improve our endings and continue this greate saga... (you have lots of things to do)

Really thanks if someone had read that.

Regards

Ozgun

[lindenshield]

 Mass Effect 3 is an amazing game finishing a great game trilogy. It was severly disappointing as most people seem to be saying with the endings, besides that the rest of the game is makes it an amazing game. that they are looking at change the endings to satisfy the gamer seems to saying alot about how good the Bioware staff is. Fix the endings and ME3 will be my favorite game. It dissapointed me with the lack of really finishing the story of what happened afterwards with other characters especially the my romance, it does't seem right having romances end in almost all the endings with shepard dying after some have carried romances through all 3 games. Then frankly the relays getting destroyed seemed to contradict the arrival dlc on what happens when a relay gets destroyed. And i know i wasn't the only one that did not like having to destroy the geth and EDI to kill the reapers.

Modifié par lindenshield, 23 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[OzgunRonin]

luci90 wrote...

I'm amazed at just how many people, from different places around the world can come together and agree that something is quite wrong.

It restores my faith in humanity a bit.

Hold the line.

Very nice thinking

[Cross429]

Oh, and Lochwood:

You make a FANTASTIC argument as to how the non-Indoctrination ending fits nowhere into the mechanics of the Mass Effect universe at it stood up until the end of ME3.

Well done.

[jeweledleah]

@ Lochwood -
1.  getting that red ending you speak of, is impossible without multiplayer or some other means to raise galactic readiness (data pad and infiltrator game, neither of which I have acess to, not being an iphone or ipad owner)  I imported completionist playthrough and did every quest I could find with exception of 2 minor Citadel quests that bugged on me.. I would have gotten maybe 10 EMS from them?  tops.
2.  relays are still destroyed, crew is stranded somewhere in a middle of nowhere, WITH my LI on board.
3.  Geth and EDI are destroyed.  relays blew up and having played arrival, I kinda expect them to destroy the system they are in.  but even if they haven't - everything I've done for Krogan and quarians.. is now a moot point, since Wrex is not getting back to Tuchanka in his lifetime and neither will Tali ever see Ranoch again.

no,  that little clip is NOT what I meant by Shepard surviving.

THIS and THIS is what i've come to expect from Mass Effect.  at least as one of the options.  but i guess those are not edgy enough, or bitter. or something

and I'm sorry, but handling of Thane's and jacob's romance was atrocious.  they shoduln't have given so many hints in ME2 of possible cure.  not to mention - romances barely get any extra dialogue and then never mentioned again.  femsehp doesn't even get to grieve properly.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 23 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[Lochwood]

Cross429 wrote...

And along with 400 other things: you shoot Anderson and suddenly have a wound in the same place, the black Reaper FX bordering the screen, the fact that the ending "dream" is fully consistent visually and functionally with the other dreams throughout the game.....

I want to believe. I noticed while replaying an early save that when Shep goes to Garrus in the calibration-cave when Garrus first joins up that when the subject of earth comes up, Shepard says a little blurb about seeing a kid bite it on earth. And just as he goes on to talk about the kid, it shifts the camera and he steps aside or something so as to reveal these big danger stickers to the side of his head when he delivers the line. Really creepy.

But -- the gunshot to the side actually comes from Marauder Shields. You can't avoid being shot by him -- which is so very, very obnoxious. He always gets you there.

But if Shep is unconscious and in the rubble -- maybe he's been pierced by rebar, and the gunshot is the manifestation of that wound in the dream world.

But, all in all -- I think that they stripped out the indoctrinization angle based on game-mechanics problems, just as reported in "Final Hours." The visual and auditory clues were not then scrubbed. I really think that they thought these ends would stick -- at least for a good while, until they had time to make some decisions about the future of the franchise.

[Cross429]

AwefulShot wrote...

Cross429 wrote...
How about Shepard dying because he tripped and fell out of the shuttle? 

I can't get this picture out of my head now! 

Shepard exits the shuttle;

Shepard: "Right Reapers meet your do... arrrrhh!!!!"

<stunned silence>

Garrus: "Bugger."

Tali: "I should have tied his shoelaces!"

Those who defend the "artistry" of the current, non-Indoctrination ending (if that exists) would say that Shepard's defenestration had a "powerful emotional impact: I love how, as he tripped, he looked up at the sky, symbolizing his committment to the galaxy.....Shepard's final thought must have been: I hope the Normandy flees the final battle and crash lands on a Jungle planet so my pilot can walk outside and enjoy the humid tropical air!!!"

The Tripping Shepard is brilliance. Sheer brilliance. What "artistic integrity."

[Prince of Thieves]

Well I know I'm a little late to all this but  I beat ME3 only two days ago and wanted to give myself some time to think about, and having done so I felt I really wanted to add my two cents, after all Mass Effect is something I'm passionate about.

I would say Mass Effect 3 is probably one of the best games I have ever played, up until the little space ghost appears with the "three color-choices" everyone is upset about. It was truely a great narrative, emotionally engaging, exciting and captivating. But all the choices I made, the heroics I accomplish as (a mostly renegade) Shepard it is ultimately trumped by an ending that feels rushed and poorly thought out. Three endings that are so identical in forced presentation to be almost meaningless and which ultimately transforms the universe I have been thrilled to explore across three games into something unrecognisable. And these ending being without any epliogues to show the consequences of the, sometimes hard, choices I made across now three games further leaves me with the feeling that the jounrey I took with Shepard was ultimately meaningless. For example does it matter that I unified the species of the Galaxy as they are now seperated without a mass relay network.

In short the game, the Bioware RPG experiences that has made me a fan of the company for a very long time is there, right up to the poorly concieved and contrived ending. However the game also feels rushed at points, including some surprising bugs (face import, broken conversation animations, pathfinding on the Normandy cockpit). I want to excuse the ending as some product of that apparent rush, the sadly similar c utscene seem to suggest such. But it also feels like sloopy writing, introducing the 11th hour deus ex machina was so amaturish that is was stunning. I think I would of actually perferred Shepard bleed to death next to Anderson and the Illusive Man and see Liara's time capsules giving the next cycle (evolved pijeks or something) the ability to really win.

I'm sad to say I really hated the little space ghost and his rather senseless logic, however in an attempt to be constructive instead of just critical let me add that I was disappointed that there was no ability to argue with the little space ghost: that 1) he was wrong, about organics and synthetics, as proved by (in my playthrough) the reconciliation of the Geth and Quarian or EDI, a reaper coded AI, that discovered and embraced her humanity. and2) he has no right and never had the right to decide for countless billions. That by cleansing the galaxy he is robbing the species from any chance to learn better, to evolve beyond the limitations it has precieved. Perhaps presented as chance to argue a handful of points and if you can prove him wrong on enough to leave him doubting  he and his reapers relent, or he powers down, whatever.

or on discovering that the little space ghost's logic continues to be less then sound it is now time to destroy the mass relays, and you have no chance/ability to order the fleets to break combat and return to their homes because the relay network is coming down.

Having played each other Mass Effect game multiply times, often times immediately after completion the end was so stunningly against the character of the series that I have no plans for further play throughs. Maybe afer a couple months I can forgive the ending and enjoy the rest of the experiences which is stellar. I'm hopefully, yet reserved, in regards to whatever changes might come for the ending. Reserved because my faith in Bioware has been shaken.

Thanks for reading this one fans thoughts...

[Cross429]

[quote]

I want to believe. I noticed while replaying an early save that when Shep goes to Garrus in the calibration-cave when Garrus first joins up that when the subject of earth comes up, Shepard says a little blurb about seeing a kid bite it on earth. And just as he goes on to talk about the kid, it shifts the camera and he steps aside or something so as to reveal these big danger stickers to the side of his head when he delivers the line. Really creepy. [/quote]

There are examples of this exact phenomenon throughout the game. Both subtle and....not so subtle. The amount of effort it takes to direct these scenes - every movement is a conscious choice on the part of the developers - strongly argues against them all being incidental. [/quote]

[quote]

But -- the gunshot to the side actually comes from Marauder Shields. You can't avoid being shot by him -- which is so very, very obnoxious. He always gets you there. [/quote]

This is plausible. One one hand, maybe that's it, and all the other evidence pointing to Indoctrination is a mistake! Seriously, I mean that's possible.

But it's more the Direction of the scene that points to Indoctrination. You suddenly start bleeding after Anderson dies from his wound in the exact same location. The camera focuses on this, forcing you to notice. If it was just a typical "combat wound" (even admitting that Marauder Shields is the Merryl Streep of Marauders and so must have dramatic impact), I doubt they would have focused on it with that timing. The point is: Anderson's death has wounded you, because he's the embodiment of the argument against Indoctrination, and his death weakens you. The fact that he walks and talks like a sock puppet certainly suggests this.

[/quote]


[quote] But, all in all -- I think that they stripped out the indoctrinization angle based on game-mechanics problems, just as reported in "Final Hours." The visual and auditory clues were not then scrubbed. I really think that they thought these ends would stick -- at least for a good while, until they had time to make some decisions about the future of the franchise. [/quote]

Exactly. I think this is highly possible, unfortunately. I dismiss the "I don't buy Indocrtination" argument out of hand: people who say that haven't reviewed the evidence and are just reacting to the cliche of the main character "dreaming." Any amount of research suggests that it's at least possible, if not likely.

HOWEVER, the ending was rushed. They may have planned for Indoctrination as the "Final Hours" indicates and just abandoned it - without abandoning the visuals and plot thread: way too difficult to replace those. Presumably, the intended ending with Indocrtination would not end at the point it currently does and would provide more closure, but they opted for "Cause more speculation!!!!" at the last minute.

Anyway, with the fan outcry and Bioware's sympathetic response - uncharacteristic of a big company but not for them - we may have a chance to play the ending that was originally intended.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

[Jade5233]

You asked for positive and negative feedback so here it goes:

POSITIVES (and these comments pertain prior to beam hitting Shepard):
-Intricate storylines that tied in even minor quests from the first and second games. Many permutations occur depending on if you completed the quests and how. Amazing.

-Emotional connection. It was my greatest gripe with ME2--that no one really cared about Shepard, just what she could do for them. The characters made me feel they very much care for her in ME3.
-When NPC characters died, the moments were very moving and poignant.

-Variety of locations for conversations

-Kinnect makes gameplay smoother and more responsive. In playing ME2 again I realized how much I missed it.

-Crewmate interaction and banter was added back in.

-Loved that there was a progression of femShep’s relationship with Kaidan. It wasn’t automatic.

-Loved that Kaidan felt even more like a real person, faults and all. Loved how much his character grew through the game and through the series.

-Inside jokes about the Mako/Hammerhead, Shepard’s dancing, Vega’s previous last name.



NEGATIVES about the Game Before the Ending.
-The journal system is abysmal. I’ve never played an RPG before where the quest tracker doesn’t track its quests.

-The graphics in the intro are below ME2 and ME1 standards.

-Decreasing the conversations choices from 3 to 2 on the dialogue wheel, which decreases our role play of the character.

-Slow motions scenes were difficult to play, especially for biotics since powers were not useable.


CRITICISMS of the ENDING
-Multiplayer mode or sources outside of single player are required to open all endings.

-We were promised a variety of endings depending upon choices made in the saga. We got 3 that all dovetail into one that has very minor variations.

-Regardless of previous choices in the saga, there is no option for a “happy” ending where Shepard survives with his/her love interest.

-It makes no sense that Joker, the Normandy and its crew would be fleeing the battle through a mass relay, especially since it take several hours to get to Sol’s mass relay from Earth.

-Why are characters that were part of Hammer Initiative and that were in the final drive with Shepard when the beam hit, now magically upon the Normandy when the Normandy crashes?

-How was the Citadel (a mass relay) magically transported to Earth?

-The Catalyst does not make sense within the context of the ME universe
-if the Citadel was part of the Star Child, the why didn’t he open the Citdel for Sovereign?
-introduction of a key character/concept into the saga in the last 5 minutes of the game

-Destruction of the mass relays, according previous Mass Effect lore (such as Arrival) should cause destruction of the entire system surrounding it. And all of the mass relays were destroyed. Hence all of the major systems/planets should have been destroyed.

-The Turians and Quarians are trapped in Sol system without a food source and will die of starvation.

-The cured genophage is rendered moot since the vast majority of the male Krogans are trapped the Sol system.

-Galactic cilivilization has been utterly destroyed since it was dependent upon intragalactic commerce and relations. Now each planet/species is stuck in their own system without contact with outside systems.


WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE
-A wider variety of choices/endings. DAO was one game and it had 21 or so endings. A saga of 3 games should at least have that.

-The option (not everyone has to take it) of an ending where Shepard & the love interest of choice can live out their lives together helping to rebuild the war-torn galaxy (or retire).

-Endings that reflect choices made throughout the saga, not just in the last 5 minutes.

-And ending that makes sense within its own context. Not a new concept that was thought up in the last 5 minutes of the game.


My problem with the ending is that not only did my Shepard sacrifice herself, but she did so without any choice in the matter (since all endings are essentially the same) and for a resolution that leaves the galaxy only slightly better than if the Reapers had destroyed it. And for an ending that doesn’t even subscribe to the tenants of physics and lore that were previously established in the Mass Effect universe.

This isn’t acceptable, BioWare. I’ve played KOTOR. I’ve played DA:O. Not to mention ME. I KNOW you can do better than this. You ask for us to trust you. We did. This is what we got. I ask you to prove that you are the company that we thought you were. Set this right for us so we can return to believing in you once again.

[hardermob5]

Berehir wrote...

...
Let me continue by saying that I do not feel  that I Bioware OWES me anything, but there is a flipside to that coin - Neither do I owe Bioware any more of my capital or time.  They produced, marketed and sold a product.  I consumed the content that was provided and found the final quality of the entire delivered product is not worth continuing  the relationship between consumer and producer at this time.  What Bioware chooses to do next will decide if that relationship is re-established or permanently severed.

All of the discussion as to what happend and why I feel is somewhat irrelevant.  At the end of the day, I think Bioware grossly miscalculated the reaction of the ending.  Whether or not  the ending was meant to be stand alone or if Indoctrination Theory was the intent all along, is not really relevant in my opinon.  I do think they got too clever for their own good.  Whether it was groupthink, rogue writers/producers, pressure from EA to wring more $$ from us ... whatever.  It doesn't really matter.  I say this because I beleive the only response that is made on  this issue will solely be driven off of the bottom line.  Bioware can spout all the drivel about 'artistic integrity' that they wish too.  Disgruntled fans can hang their hat on what they feel they/or the franchise are owed all they want.  Bioware will make a decision that is good for their bottom line ... that's it. If they feel that the negative press and the resulting loss of potential sales of units and dlcs outweighs the cost of producing new content (assuming it doesn't already exist - Indoctrination Theory), then they will act accordingly because at the end of the day, they are not in the business of making 'art' ... there is no money in art (at least until after the artist is dead).  They develop, produce, market, and sell widgets.  It just so happens, those widgets are video games.  Anything else is just spin.

I dearly hope that Bioware decides to earn my business again by fixing this issue properly.  I am not particularly hopeful, however.

YES....Exactly!!!  "Bioware can spout all the drivel about 'artistic integrity' that they wish..."  My feelings exactly.  They either fix the monstrosity of the ending and rescue the entire trilogy from being an eternal stain on 91% of the fans' psyches, or they don't.  In the end, we will each be the judge of whether we individually continue our relationship with Bioware and EA.  Right now, it's only looking like 'maybe' based on Ray Muzyka's incomplete announcement, but I too am not particulary hopeful.  'Some' players, Ray?  Come on... drop the PR spin already... your fans are too smart for that nonsense.  Say it with me, "Most...the vast majority, were grossly disappointed."  I took logic in college too... 'Some' means at least one, but could mean most too, but usually implies only a somewhat significant number, maybe... it's vague and misleading, especially when used by marketers and PR spin agents.

We're hoping Bioware comes through and gives us what we're asking for, but we're not holding our breath based on our past experiences with Dragon Age II (did you think we'd not find out about the dishonest reviews?), and now this ending for Mass Effect 3.  But please, prove our cynicism wrong...redeem yourselves.  You don't have to throw yourself into a pillar of light, screwing billions of people to do it, either.

Modifié par hardermob5, 23 mars 2012 - 02:35 .