On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.
#9726
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:46
Second dream sequence chasing boy slowly = unfun
First time running to the light slowly = unfun
Meaningless encounter with boy covered in light = unfun
Second time running to light slowly = unfun
Falling thru the light in some obtuse way to end an epic story = put a refund on my MasterCard this game was unfun.
For times when we want good art we have museums.
For times when we want to have fun we have games.
MasterCard...never going to use it on Bioware again.
#9727
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:54
Guest_magnetite_*
Seeeg wrote...
yeah, i believe that too. and personally, i cant wait to see what's next.
i really hope that they come out with a free dlc though, because i dont want to wait another 2 years for the final-final chapter.. -.-
I don't think it'll take 2 years to do. I believe their first DLC for Mass Effect 2 was Overlord and that came out roughly 4-5 months after Mass Effect 2. However, it was roughly 1 1/2 hours of gameplay, so if people are only confused about the final 20 minute mission, then that should probably take a month or two to do.
About the indoctrination theory. It's just a theory or an idea about how the game finished. A lot of people will see it differently.
Modifié par magnetite, 23 mars 2012 - 01:56 .
#9728
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:56
I find myself agreeing with this:
http://social.biowar...index/9727423/1
If bw is REALLY listening to us I think that they should take a look at that!
This is only my opinion and, by the way, sorry for my english!
#9729
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:56
All that dreamy media... non ending bullets... I am really sorry for most of the people that they cant accept the fact that they didnt understand the ending...
Bioware finised the series in most artistical way. The game ending is not for the players but for themselves. But this is a serious mistake because it disspell the being sheppered spell from the most of the players and it will harm the company...
Modifié par OzgunRonin, 23 mars 2012 - 01:59 .
#9730
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:01
#9731
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:02
happened while I played, and not in ending cut scenes. I thought it was
beautiful.
My only complaint really is the ambiguity about the
fate of my crew and friends. It doesn't seem fair to cut them off after
everything- Ash from her family, Tali from her world, Joker from proper
medical care... I guess Garrus got what he wanted.
I survived,
and you can bet your last dollar that I am going to get the fastest ship
in Earth orbit and go find them. It might take a few years (or a few
months for Shepard traveling at relativisitic speeds), but I can imagine
their faces when the rescue shuttle touches down and who is it but
their lost comrade they all believed was dead. It would be the final
punctuation in a galaxy-saving career- a personal rescue that only means
something to him and his friends.
Likewise, someone who controls
the Reapers might not exist anymore, but they might have a Reaper-ish
avatar representing what Shepard was, and could still utilize the
Reapers to at least rescue his friends, even if he can no longer join
them.
So in all, I look forward to any future DLC that does offer
slightly more closure, I just don't want too much. I don't want my
ending ruined... I don't want the beauty and difficulty of Shepard's
final choice rendered irrelevant... I guess I am in the Tali camp-
Shepard earned some more time. It's the least that the shadowy,
mysterious Gods of the Galaxy (who have their office in Edmonton) can do
for him/her.
#9732
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:10
Bloodhound66 wrote...
KingBarbarossa wrote...
I know you guys are getting buried under piles of posts complaining about your endings (I don't see enough people talking about this in plural, which is a huge red flag to me). I just want to make sure you have at least one that tells you what an absolutely wonderful job you did on the endings.
I really loved how each ending irrevocably changed the course of the mass effect universe in ways that can't really be measured. You forced me to drastically alter the status quo of not just humanity's, but every race's civilization. And it all happened because of the choices I made. I chose the "white/neutral" ending. And in doing so, I ushered in the dawn of a new age for all life. Not only did I bind together the sometimes selfish race of the galaxy with a common thread (we're all half breeds now), but I gave us common goal to accomplish (restablish contact, figure out a new way to travel). There were several times during the game when I was nearly in tears from sadness and guilt over what I had done. I sacrificed friends I loved for the sake of the greater good. Who gave me that right? Would it even be worth it in the end? Even with all I had done, would things just end up the way they were before, but with untold billions dead? And in the end, I accomplished something I'd never even dreamed of. I'd paved the way for possibilities I can't even imagine. And yet, all I have won is bitter sweet because of the losses I'd suffered along the way, the friends who didn't live to see it.
Bravo and brava Team Montreal. You have personally changed my life for the better. I will go to my grave with the wonderful memories I made playing your games. I can only snicker at the fools who can't see the value in your craft, who claim that video games can't be art. I don't know how else I could describe what you've created.
My request is simple. Whatever you do, keep the three endings intact. They all have great value. If the internet so terribly needs to maintain the status quo, if they must "make everything ok" , or if they're just plain too lazy to earn a better ending through playing your fantastic multiplayer (which is stunning as well by the way), just add a fourth ending. I know it will be nearly impossible to reconcile something that basically keeps the universe the same with the amazing ending I got, but if anyone can do it you can. You've proved you're in a class by yourself. Don't let people tell you you're not. And lastly, they wouldn't care this much if you hadn't done such an amazingly fantastic job with this series. Thank you again, and I can't wait to play the DLC.
Love,
A fellow developer
P.S. - It wouldn't kill you to let us play with one or two of the characters from ME2 again.
Don't presume that because the majority of us feel the ending fell short that we're discrediting BioWare or the writers or staff in any way. If you actually follow the Mass Effect lore, than there should be no doubt that everything with the Catalyst contradicted the entire premise of the last two games.
I can't believe how many people there are like you, who comment on this thread thinking that the community is in an uproar over some false sense of entitlement, and that the developers need to be defended. NO ONE IS ATTACKING THE HARD WORKING STAFF OF BIOWARE!
We are expressing, out of pure love of the Mass Effect franchise, that the ending we are presented with currently defeats everything we have grown to love about the series. That we feel cheated, because we were promised VARYING OUTCOMES THAT REPRESENTED OUR DECISIONS FROM THE LAST TWO GAMES. Not 3 possible outcomes that you can get so long as you play enough multiplayer.
As a developer, would you be satisfied if the general consensus of your game was, "Wow, what an amazing series! But what a terrible ending."
Maybe if it was any old generic shooter or what have you, but Mass Effect is one of the most relevant and amazing sci-fi stories made to date. And it DESERVES better than the 10 minute, matrix rip-off ending that it got.
Love,
A bigger fan of ME than you.
Here be truth! Bloodhound 66 - I'm with you!
#9733
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:10
Therefore, the ending makes even -less- sense.
#9734
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:15
And the Mass Relays eksploting? In every single ending? No no... First of all, it eliminates the possibillity of a seaqual, witch is very hard to accept. Second, what about the fleet helping liberate earth? Will they just be stuck there or engulf on a 100 year long journey home? What about Wrex? He needs to get back to his new girlfriend and repopulate Tuchanca. And what about Tali? Doesn't she deserve to go back to her homeplanet and build her house with the little window and ocean view?
You can do better than this... Please?
#9735
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:20
Sans Changer wrote...
I actually enjoyed my particular ending of ME3. Most of it was what
happened while I played, and not in ending cut scenes. I thought it was
beautiful.
My only complaint really is the ambiguity about the
fate of my crew and friends. It doesn't seem fair to cut them off after
everything- Ash from her family, Tali from her world, Joker from proper
medical care... I guess Garrus got what he wanted.
I survived,
and you can bet your last dollar that I am going to get the fastest ship
in Earth orbit and go find them. It might take a few years (or a few
months for Shepard traveling at relativisitic speeds), but I can imagine
their faces when the rescue shuttle touches down and who is it but
their lost comrade they all believed was dead. It would be the final
punctuation in a galaxy-saving career- a personal rescue that only means
something to him and his friends.
Likewise, someone who controls
the Reapers might not exist anymore, but they might have a Reaper-ish
avatar representing what Shepard was, and could still utilize the
Reapers to at least rescue his friends, even if he can no longer join
them.
So in all, I look forward to any future DLC that does offer
slightly more closure, I just don't want too much. I don't want my
ending ruined... I don't want the beauty and difficulty of Shepard's
final choice rendered irrelevant... I guess I am in the Tali camp-
Shepard earned some more time. It's the least that the shadowy,
mysterious Gods of the Galaxy (who have their office in Edmonton) can do
for him/her.
I highlighted the part I'm answering.
NO!
Every ending destroys the Mass Relays. It would therefore take hundreds of thousands of years to travel to the downed Normandy without them. There will be no rescue for them. Ever. Shepard will die alone in the Sol System, watching the Quarians go extinct due to having no resources to sustain them and no way of going home. Without support they will die as their suits malfunction and break down.
The Krogan will also die, they're all men. The only female is also lightyears away, and again, without the relays they will probably go extinct in civil war over the scarce resources left on Tuchanka and the only remaining female.
The story is the same for both turian and Human forces. Not to mention Volcha and Batarians.
#9736
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:23
I just want the game to finish the way it was intended to finish. I'm not stupid. I understand the ending and I feel bad for fans who just assumed this was the face value ending or can't stand waiting for a DLC to come out to complete the game.
We all complain about the CODs and HALOs of the world, but a gaming company comes out and makes a truly unique and speculative original ending and we all bash it. Bioware attempted to end the franchise in a unique way. Through the release of episodic DLC. This is something new and revolutionary and won't ever be done again because of the response by fans.......It's truly sad.
I just hope that Bioware stays the course of the ending of Shepard fighting Indoctrination and does not cave in and change whatever ending was going to come for the ending DLC.
The fact that people need to examine is that if ending DLC comes out in a month or two then it was planned all along due to the time it takes to create additional DLC.
I loved the endings and only hope that Bioware adds to the ending.....It's their game and their story. We are just a long for the ride.
#9737
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:24
DangerKnerd wrote...
That Shepard dies, I can accept. That there is no completely happy ending, I can accept. That this wasn't the ending i ekspected AT ALL, I can accept. That I dont like the ending, I can learn to accept. But that EDI and Liara steps out of the crashed Normandy unharmed like 10 minuts after they was right behiend me when i got too close to a giant deathray, and afterwarths crawled my way to a beam that took me to who knows where, I simply can not accept. There's no way that they wouldn't have followed me in to the beam. And there's no way that Joker would have left the battle, let alone pick someone up that could have helped me at whatever's behiend that beam, and then just flee. That's simply not possible.
And the Mass Relays eksploting? In every single ending? No no... First of all, it eliminates the possibillity of a seaqual, witch is very hard to accept. Second, what about the fleet helping liberate earth? Will they just be stuck there or engulf on a 100 year long journey home? What about Wrex? He needs to get back to his new girlfriend and repopulate Tuchanca. And what about Tali? Doesn't she deserve to go back to her homeplanet and build her house with the little window and ocean view?
You can do better than this... Please?
I know right? And what sort of being holds a conversation with bullets? That remark being a metaphor on Harbinger trying to indoctrinate Shepard with an extremely destructive ray of energy.
If that was stream-communication I call bull**** alert!
#9738
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:27
#9739
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:27
III Achilles II wrote...
Honestly! I know that there is something more planned for the ending. I just wish fellow fans would have the virtue of patience. The truth is that releasing something about the ending now hasn't given very many people a chance to experience the ending for themselves. Most people find that the ending was over hyped about how bad it was from people who took it at face value.
I just want the game to finish the way it was intended to finish. I'm not stupid. I understand the ending and I feel bad for fans who just assumed this was the face value ending or can't stand waiting for a DLC to come out to complete the game.
We all complain about the CODs and HALOs of the world, but a gaming company comes out and makes a truly unique and speculative original ending and we all bash it. Bioware attempted to end the franchise in a unique way. Through the release of episodic DLC. This is something new and revolutionary and won't ever be done again because of the response by fans.......It's truly sad.
I just hope that Bioware stays the course of the ending of Shepard fighting Indoctrination and does not cave in and change whatever ending was going to come for the ending DLC.
The fact that people need to examine is that if ending DLC comes out in a month or two then it was planned all along due to the time it takes to create additional DLC.
I loved the endings and only hope that Bioware adds to the ending.....It's their game and their story. We are just a long for the ride.
Wow, what?
They released an incomplete game?
Are you suggesting that they released an incomplete game, only to attempt a gollum-greedy way to make more money off the DLC? I hardly think so!
I know they state that we can continue building Shepards legend, but I would think that they talk about pre-ME3ending content.
BioWare is a good company, they make the best of games, but something went wrong with their best installment - obvious due to the fact that this very thread of communication exists.
#9740
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:33
OzgunRonin wrote...
Sorry people bu reallity hurts... The Ending showed lots of people that you are not heros, you are just playing a hero in the game...
![]()
All that dreamy media... non ending bullets... I am really sorry for most of the people that they cant accept the fact that they didnt understand the ending...
Bioware finised the series in most artistical way. The game ending is not for the players but for themselves. But this is a serious mistake because it disspell the being sheppered spell from the most of the players and it will harm the company...
If the indoctrination theory is true, then the ending is really incomplete and they screw up trying to make more money.
If that is correct, and so many people didn't understand it (everything is too inconsistent and the theory has a few holes), then they completely failed at that artistic storytelling.
If they made the ending for themselves they just forgot that as a bussines they should have done it for their consumers.
If they tried to be "artistic", they just failed when they trew away all they did in the previous games.
And something that really scares me is how many people are defending the "one ending fits all". In a game like this one single ending just can't do the trick.
#9741
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:40
#9742
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:42
In terms of story, I was pleased to see how some of the important issues and themes throughout the entire series were handled such as the Krogan Genophage and the Geth-Quarian War. The final scenes with Mordin and Legion were pretty moving.
As for the endings, I personally didn’t find them very fulfilling or conclusive. However, I can accept it as part of the game’s flaws and move past them to still view the entire game in good light and on the whole a good experience.
I can see where a lot of the fans are coming from in voicing their displeasures. However, I don’t fully agree with many people saying that the ending was illogical. While playing through the end sequence, I was under the impression that Shepard was in some sort of dream state and that the conversations with TIM and the Catalyst were maybe forms of Reaper Indoctrination. There were many big hints being dropped pointing towards this being the case and I was a bit relieved to see that other people seemed to think so too when I read about the indoctrination theories hovering around the net. So you could say that I’m a firm believer that Shepard was being indoctrinated at the end. If this is the case, I can appreciate how Bioware are trying to do for Mass Effect 3 what that spinning top did for Inception at its end, and for this I don’t think Bioware should overhaul or change its endings, it’s their artistic choice and I can respect that. It’s just a shame we will never know what actually happens afterwards which is a huge letdown after investing so much time in the characters and decisions and never getting to see what results of it at the very end. This is my main gripe for a series that prides and advertises itself on choices and role-playing.
If Bioware want to go ahead with clarifying the endings for its fans, I hope it will be along the lines of an epilogue that will give some insight into the aftermath. What became of all the main characters, alien races, the Citadel and Crucible and Reapers? Did we win? How is the galaxy going to rebuild? If not, how do we die? If the endings had went further into these details, in a sense, rewarded us for our decisions made, I would’ve found the experience to be more complete instead of hanging with all these unanswered questions and loose ends. One of my favourite parts in Dragon Age: Origins was reading all the aftermaths of all the important characters at the end and seeing how each changed drastically according to my actions throughout the story. It would be difficult for the Mass Effect 3 endings without giving away the indoctrination twist, but if they pulled it off, I believe it’ll leave the trilogy ending on a much better note.
Modifié par allindehans, 23 mars 2012 - 02:48 .
#9743
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:43
Bioware and the ME community entered into a contract: Bioware offered a series based on the premise of cause and effect / choice and consequence, leadership and teamwork, defeating a great enemy and saving the galaxy. We paid for this game, and we got it in spades ... right up to the point where Harbinger appeared on the ground in London.
At this point Bioware broke their contract by being "artistic / clever" at our expense and we are understandibly unhappy about it. The resolution is to return to the contract and deliver the goods both promised and implied.
Modifié par Bludger133, 23 mars 2012 - 02:44 .
#9744
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:47
Deliquesce wrote...
Legion says he uses the Quarian image from Shepard's memory, as Shepard has never seen a Quarian without the suit on.
That is actually only partial true.
My Shepard and my important save had Tali as LI. During the last moments before the suicide mission in two she takes of the mask (And I presume the rest of the suit...you know...making "Peace".). So, if Shepard has her as LI in two, he has actually seen a Quarian without a suit.
#9745
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:47
The ending-scenes are absolutely epic, in my entire life no movie, no book and no other videogame had such a huge impact on me an my emotions, the last 20 minutes made me cry and I liked it.
I thought from the moment the Reaper-Beam hits you: "Hey... that can't be happening" and... "this doesn't fit"... "that can't be reality", so I figured out I might just have been indoctrinated.
I agree that the ending can be troublesome and hard to understand but I beg you... keep creating games like this. Do not change the ending by adding a DLC. A 'different' or 'alternative' ending would be fine, but as it is now... it is just superawesome.
The earlier mentioned youtube-vid ( ) helped me a lot to fill in die missing parts and it showed me the complexity of this whole story.
So just keep creating games like this I will devour them through my emergency induction port.
#9746
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:49
And I don't think to have a Shepard surviving is a disney ending.
A lot of people die on this yourney and the galaxy is pretty much destroyed, but it would be a little light in the darkness. It would make me want to play again and to buy future DLC's. Besides that I'm not happy with the Starchild. Shepard is giving in too fast. In my head canon it's Harbinger messing around with Shepard's mind, so for me the indoctrination theory is interesting.
To say it here once more. I really love the game. Playing over so many years and hours Shepard in the Mass Effect Universe, made me attached to this character. Normally I play a game once (besides TES) and lose interest. I have never lost interest to play Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2.
I love the journey in Mass Effect 3. It was exciting, it made me laugh and sometimes almost cry.A wonderful told story, but the endings without really having a choice ruined it for me.
Modifié par Aslanasadi, 23 mars 2012 - 02:51 .
#9747
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:50
Cortyn wrote...
*snip*
So, that Shepard falls trough an explosion, is blown into the vacuum of space, falls down to earth with an amazing speed into the rubble and survived while his crew was magically defecting is satisfactional to you? Really, I should start writing books.
And if the Indoc thing is true, you don't want to know what happened to Shepard AFTER he wakes up.
#9748
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:50
DuncanId wrote...
OzgunRonin wrote...
Sorry people bu reallity hurts... The Ending showed lots of people that you are not heros, you are just playing a hero in the game...
![]()
All that dreamy media... non ending bullets... I am really sorry for most of the people that they cant accept the fact that they didnt understand the ending...
Bioware finised the series in most artistical way. The game ending is not for the players but for themselves. But this is a serious mistake because it disspell the being sheppered spell from the most of the players and it will harm the company...
If the indoctrination theory is true, then the ending is really incomplete and they screw up trying to make more money.
If that is correct, and so many people didn't understand it (everything is too inconsistent and the theory has a few holes), then they completely failed at that artistic storytelling.
If they made the ending for themselves they just forgot that as a bussines they should have done it for their consumers.
If they tried to be "artistic", they just failed when they trew away all they did in the previous games.
And something that really scares me is how many people are defending the "one ending fits all". In a game like this one single ending just can't do the trick.
The answer is simple... no one can kill a story that he wrote for years in 10 minutes... Before thinking that Bioware coulndt handle the ending some people should asked theirselves, Am I missing something... There are so many clues that cant be missed. But people thought these are holes of the senario but they were not. Only listening to Mass effect 2 codex of Indocrination is enough...
From the time I entered the dream (after waking from explosion) I was aware of it was dream... (I must admit that I really have a strong PC (12 GB ram, SSD hardisk etc. so the cause of this may be the graphics...)
The only thing that we should be angy about is selling the ending of the game seperatly is not seem right...
As I said before... guys you are angry because the ending didnt make you feel like you are heros... and you are right. Some of you just given these money for feeling like one... The ending is very enjoyable for me to see so much people deceived to sacrife their selves to merged with the cyntetics... which was the original purpose of the reaper from mass effect 1...
Which is really really perfect... The game really try to indocrinate you...
#9749
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:51
Riddledim wrote...
Every ending destroys the Mass Relays. It would therefore take hundreds of thousands of years to travel to the downed Normandy without them. There will be no rescue for them. Ever. Shepard will die alone in the Sol System, watching the Quarians go extinct due to having no resources to sustain them and no way of going home. Without support they will die as their suits malfunction and break down.
Not necessarily. First, there is nothing keeping the Quarrians from setting up a colony on Earth until they can embark on a big trip across the galaxy to Rannoch (there is certainly room on Earth now...)
Also, ships in the Mass Effect universe are already using FTL drives, and though they are reliant on mass effect fields for "local" interstellar travel (otherwise it would take hundreds to thousands of years just to move around within a single cluster), there is no indication by Catalyst or elsewhere that this technology was destroyed (the Normandy appears to be damaged in mid-relay jump, not spontaneously exploding on its own). The Mass Relays only make fast travel within the entire galaxy faster.
As far as I know, the exact speeds past light that ships are able to move at has never been revealed, but it must be very fast (even at the speed of light, traveling across the Horsehead Nebula to reach Cronos Station would take a lot longer than it does in the game- Horsehead is (I believe) 3.5 x 2.6 light-years in size, and I don't think Leng was waiting around a few years for Shepard & crew to show up).
So I believe it is possible that Shepard could find his own crew within both their lifetimes using non-relay technology, but time would pass faster for him moving at relativistic speeds, and at normal speed for the Normandy survivors. It would definitely take a decade or two for them.
But, the disagreement serves my point that I am sure BioWare is aware of- many people are happy with the current ending(s) but will want to play the DLC without having their decisions rendered irrelevant or meaningless. Others will want some minor changes, and yet others want the whole last chapter re-written apparently. I do not envy the writers coming up with whatever BioWare is working on...
Modifié par Sans Changer, 23 mars 2012 - 03:05 .
#9750
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:51
http://social.biowar.../index/10449943
The question I pose is "what would our reception of current ending be if it was in a DLC advertised as an "artistic" alternative ending?"
------------
Kishala wrote...
No it hasn't. Bioware tried something with ME3 that didn't work. They took a risk and the payout hasn't really been great. I would rather a company take a risk and fail than fail to take risks. Risk taking is how we got Mass Effect in the first place. thank you Chris Priestly for suggesting Bioware try a new IP instead of more liscened games and those years ago!!
I agree with this up to a point. The risk here, I think, should not have been taken due to the situation. To clarify, ME1-3 has been a tight-knit trilogy with the touted illusion of choice binding the series. The fans became invested in the lore, story, and the characters. The payoff, i.e., the very end of the series, should have been a culminating event of epic proportions rather than a piling mass of dwindling sizzle. I think it would have been more prudent if the risk, in this particular situation, had been taken in a DLC, e.g., the game should have had an ending similar to what we had been clamoring for and the DLC should have the current ending with the star child et al. That way, BW could have expressed their "artistic" vision while minimizing any potential negative feedback because the fans
would have been more receptive to what BW was trying to do.
Just a new take & opinion on my part.
Modifié par Chronor, 23 mars 2012 - 02:54 .




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