23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Reeeen0690]

Choose whether to destroy or control the reapers BEFORE you start the final assault, maybe have it so paragon is destroy (using the reaper code to kill reapers only not EDI or Geth) and renegade as control. Cut out the star child and normandy bits completely. Have it so higher war asses affects whether the citadel and relays are destroyed. After this a few scenes showing what happens to the survivors would be nice. (I'm perfectly happy with Sheperd dying)

Modifié par Reeeen0690, 23 mars 2012 - 10:50 .

[jeweledleah]

so... thinking of Krogan, out of curiosity, I paid a visit to Krogan DMZ and read every single planetary entry. there are no garden planets in their system. Tuchanka itself can barely support life and what's left of vegetation and animals is poisonous. moreover. whether you dispense the genophage cure or don't - the shroud is destroyed. meaning that they no longer have what little protection they had from nuclear winter.

it seems to me, that importing food via relays was the only way they could sustain life. now that both the shroud and the relays are gone? sorry Krogan. you are dying from starvation and/or radiation poisoning.

good job breaking it, hero.

[clarkusdarkus]

If albundy can score 4 touchdowns in 1 game then bioware can damn well make our choices matter and give new endings.

[die-yng]

DuncanId wrote...

That actually makes sense to me. The higher your war assets, the better scientis teams are, so they can build the crucible without making too many mistakes, making it safer and more functional, if they screw up, the ray obliterates al life in the galaxy. The question I would ask is: what's the point of the citadel defense assets?

Yes, and why are they still counted among your war assets, even if they are suppossed to be obliterated.


And if we talk about being cold towards the elcor, how terrible is it to let every single being on the citadel die?

All the merchants and refuges you met, Bailey, the councilors, all the brave C-Sec officers, the war widows... Kelly Chambers if she survived, the young students from Grissom academy, the staff in the hospital.

That hit me really hard, when you get out of the beam and are surrounded by those piles of bodies.

[Cacos Revan]

I am a long time fan of Bioware, ever
since I discovered your existence with Kotor. You guys do not just
make games, you make wonderful works of art.


But of course no one is perfect, so we
sometimes mess up (I mess up a lot more than you). I will give you a
example of what I consider is Bioware messing up: In Dragon Age 2,
the use of the same caves over & over again.


I write this in the hopes that you
understand my dislike of the "ending" in ME3. I do not mind
Shepherd dying, but I did expect something like the Lord of the Rings
3 ending, I expected some closure. I expected to be able to see the
fruits of my labor.


I am not talking about choosing the 3
options at the end, what I mean is, What happened to the fleet?, What
happened to my team?, Why was joker running? These are just some of
the things that caused the game's “ending” to be not good, in my
opinion. For me the ending is very important, please give me some
closure.


Please fix the ending.

I do not mind buying DLC if its content
for the game, but I should not need to buy a DLC to have the ending
of one of the best games in gaming history.




Thank you for your time &
understanding.
Cacos Revan

[DarkShadow]

I'm trying to get a thread to the front page which shows all our ideas and demands in a single, orderly post. Additionally, there's a google document for all of you to edit (I trust you don't screw around).

http://social.biowar.../index/10528782

[mi55ion]

DuncanId wrote...

I have no problem with that. Is a perfectly valid explanation for why you liked the ending, even though you had to fill the blanks using your imagination.

But I have a question. That ending would be the same if your love interest was Garrus or Tali instead of Liara? After all, stranded in a lost planet without means to reach any other planet, they would slowly die of starvation.

And I just can't get past the part where the green ray merges machine and organic DNA. DNA doesn't work that way (and I'm not even considering that machines don't have DNA). It's already hard to believe that any kind of radiation could alter DNA in a desired way.

Glad you liked it though, I honestly wish I could. For me the ending was more depressing than "the witcher" books.

think of it this way, no book has ever been written without the reader having to read between the lines, some even make it specifically so, just so that every person can alter how things are percieved and how they play out in sequences not completely shown. thus everyone can interpret it to their own liking.

and.. come on.. being stranded on a planet teeming with life doesn;t sound as bad as you put it, i'm sorry to say but would you starve if all the supermarkets closed? no you wouldn;t, there is fruit growing on the trees, there are rivers filled with water.. the planet they crashed on did not at all look barren and desolated to suggest they would die of starvation. maybe they would become farmers if there was a distinct lack of technology, but they are smart people and i am sure they would know how to pick a fruit and eat it.

as for the DNA alteration.. well, it's a sci-fi story, if i can have people traveling faster then light then they can have some combination of mixed DNA sequences.. and well in the end, Reapers were indoctrinated and controlled, they can be forgiven for what they did. this is why i let Quarians die against Geth, They simply refused to accept Geth and live alongside them, whilst Geth kept records and 'hoped' that Quarians would eventually accept them and let them live along side them. so well, to me, it fitted, same as all physics says you can;t have faster then light travel, we still like the concept, i take it as such too.

so yeah, i filled the story to fit with my experience and how i saw it right from the begining, left me thinking for days.. i was gutted it had to end with Commander's sacrifice but content and happy because of it.

As for other LI's, well that's just the thing, i played 1 and 2 more then 10 times each and every time i made same choices and accepted same directions.. like a movie, or a book, i can;t rewrite it, it's what it is.. shepard became who she was and i could not change it, that is not to say i did not do on latter playthroughs a save a picked a different option just to see what happens, but i had to reload and still chose the same options i always made for Shepard. Its just the way it happened to me. The game played itself, i was there for the ride.

maybe because i, right from the start, saw Shepard as an idividual who makes her own choices despite me pressing buttons, that i accepted her faith for the way it came. I hoped for 'saving the galaxy and lived happily ever after' but in the end that would have made it quite a cliche, and i kind of felt i needed this to end tragically yet with knowledge that it was not in vain, and i got that.

like in the Steppenwolf, from Herman Hesse, he gets laughed out of court for bringing a reality into the magical theatre and killing a reflection of a girl with a reflection of a knife, not to mention having his right of entrance revoked for a day. come on, that was a psychological representation of non existent reality yet in his mind it was very real, and as a reader we accept this for we know it's a book and a story which leaves us with more questions then we get answers for.. yet that's what it's all about, to question, to delve deep into it and find our own solutions, our own reasoning and what it all means to us. everything else is just words on the paper.

I don't know, I read a lot, many different typs of books and maybe i got to appreciate when the writer purposefully leaves gaps in the story so i can fill it in myself, if i have a good day, i will judge motives to be honourable, when i have a bad day same passage can lead me to doubt at the honesty of the person, every coin has two sides and sometimes i like to have the option to chose for myself not having it cemented so completely that there is no room for my choices at all. Maybe this is why I do not see the holes everyone keeps talking about.. i have filled them as i played along, i did not need them drawn out with an arrow explaining it all.

[13Dannyboy13]

Putting aside the many holes and unanswered questions in the ending, the one thing that really bothered me is the complete lack of any real impact of the choices made. This has been a problem in many games though from Dragon age onwards. You have all these important choices, yet in the end they make no difference regardless of your choices. For ME3 all you may get is a different number of war assets and a tiny cutscene if that, there is really no real impact regardless of choices made.
On a side note, seeing "action" mode as a choice to play through the game really just took my last little bit of faith in Bioware away, for a trilogy that made the choices you make such a big seilling pont, this was just a slap in the face. Seems everything these days has to be "mainstreamed" to get as many possible people to buy the game, and the resulting flood of dlc. This entire industry is going downhill in an effort to put quantity over quality. I really hope that whatever the new or changed ending is, that it is a free dlc.

[Numdenu]

mi55ion wrote...

*snip*

I don't know, I read a lot, many different typs of books and maybe i got to appreciate when the writer purposefully leaves gaps in the story so i can fill it in myself, if i have a good day, i will judge motives to be honourable, when i have a bad day same passage can lead me to doubt at the honesty of the person, every coin has two sides and sometimes i like to have the option to chose for myself not having it cemented so completely that there is no room for my choices at all. Maybe this is why I do not see the holes everyone keeps talking about.. i have filled them as i played along, i did not need them drawn out with an arrow explaining it all.

Okay, I'm super curious now. What's your take on the endings and how did you fill in the "holes"? We might get some good ideas out of this to throw around.

[dormouse03]

LPKerberos wrote...

Deliquesce wrote...

Legion says he uses the Quarian image from Shepard's memory, as Shepard has never seen a Quarian without the suit on.

That is actually only partial true.

My Shepard and my important save had Tali as LI. During the last moments before the suicide mission in two she takes of the mask (And I presume the rest of the suit...you know...making "Peace".). So, if Shepard has her as LI in two, he has actually seen a Quarian without a suit.

I believe that Legion does not say that you've never seen a quarian before, but says something like "How many quarians have you seen without their suits?"  This would imply that even if Shepard has seen Tali naked, his mind may not create an image that would suggest that all Quarians look like her.  I noticed this too, even though I hadn't romanced Tali.  Just a thought.

[BodyCount]

Ok just got finished beating the game for the second playthrough and my spirits still got just as crushed when i went up the god elevator except it was almost worse because i knew what was in store, but the real reason im posting is because of a very irritating thing kept happening at almost every interaction between my shepard and characters in the game he wouldn't stop making promises about after the war and how things would be better and there would be peace and all this nice stuff that really makes you feel like all the build up that shepard is the one to "break" the cycle and save the galaxy from the reaper menace, and that afterwards depending on your choices you will live, die, save everyone, not save anyone, etc. based on what your choices were but no instead all shepard gets to do is sacrifice himself/herself so that he/she can keep synthetics from anihilating all organic life every 50,000 years, which i still understand and can accept as a possible ending but then you realize all your choices strand millions of lives in the sol system, billions more in their home system with no technology no relays to communicate so they don't even know what happend, and to top it all of who cares about their crew...... you do so we will show them to you but their to busy going against everything that the entire trilogy has stood for (comradery, never giving up,beating impossible odds, and always having shepards back) because joker has to get through that relay with your closest companions and my personal favorite your squadmates from the final mission that were to busy getting stranded on a randon backwater planet to be botherd with saving their species. Ok the first time i got through that I really wasn't even mad I was like "ok bioware im up for a challenge of wits, so lets see what you put after the credits so I can sort this ending out cause ill bet if I understand it then it will be one of the best endings to any story i've ever experienced" boy oh boy was i wrong all I get is a shady DLC offer and told by some irritating old guy to go to sleep = heart offiially broken

[Mythrialus]

I really like the Indoctrination Theory. I think it would have been utilized best if you left everything the same and go to credits. But if you pick the Destruction ending, after the credits roll, you wake up in the rubble and play through the last sections of the game to see the true ending! For me to have seen that after the credits roll I would have freaked!

[NM_Che56]

Make the ending live up to the quality that the game established: resolution and clarity.

I hope the team has a clear vision for the end and didn't box themselves into a corner; now relying on our feedback to figure a way out.

I want an ending that tells u the fate of the races, ur friends, the galaxy and Shepard based on ur actions from all 3 games.

Marauder Shields cannot be the last boss battle; I want Harbinger! I WANT HARBINGER!! *rolls up sleeves*. You saw what these guns did to Sovereign!!! HELL IN A CELL!!!

[jld]

 IMO, I loved everyting about the game.  While i agree that the endings were a bit of a letdown, i absolutely loved the game.  i've heard people say that they were disappointed that actions in previos entries in mass effect had no effect on the end.  i'd say your decisions were not intended to affect the endgame.  they were intended to affect the JOURNEY to the end.  i mean, it was always gonna be, we either win or lose against the reapers.  HOW we won or lost was should be what people focus on.  instead, hollywood has conditioned us to expect some overly dramatic, drawn out, and complicated end to the story of shepard (yes, i'm talking about the indoctrination theory).  IMO, THE GALAXY EITHER WINS OR LOSES AGAINST THE REAPERS...  there's nothing complicated about that.  that brings me to my issue with the endings.  the current endings r just like the indoctrination theory.  why do we need such a complicated conclusion?  WIN OR LOSE. SURVIVE OR DIE. THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE FOCUS OF THE END...  and throw in some really cool star wars-like space battle cinematics (more of them, at least) as well as a oldschool final fantasy-tye ending for to show that the time we spent building relationships mattered more.

[dormouse03]

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

*snip*

[ I'm going to wait and see what BioWare does. The only thing that can save the series for me is the indoctrination theory, because that actually challenges rather than insults the player's intelligence. For those who are aware their intelligence is being insulted, that is.

This ^

I don't know if the endings (and I use the "s" liberally) taken at face value ruin the entire series for me.  But I do know that I have been trying to play back through the games and I just can't get that nasty aftertaste out of my brain.  Maybe that will fade in time, but for right now, it makes me sad.

[die-yng]

dormouse03 wrote...

LPKerberos wrote...

Deliquesce wrote...

Legion says he uses the Quarian image from Shepard's memory, as Shepard has never seen a Quarian without the suit on.

That is actually only partial true.

My Shepard and my important save had Tali as LI. During the last moments before the suicide mission in two she takes of the mask (And I presume the rest of the suit...you know...making "Peace".). So, if Shepard has her as LI in two, he has actually seen a Quarian without a suit.

I believe that Legion does not say that you've never seen a quarian before, but says something like "How many quarians have you seen without their suits?"  This would imply that even if Shepard has seen Tali naked, his mind may not create an image that would suggest that all Quarians look like her.  I noticed this too, even though I hadn't romanced Tali.  Just a thought.

He says something about Shepard not being able to see those Quarians as Tali, if she is your LI.
Something about images don't match or such, can't remember rthe exact words

[thefallen2far]

mi55ion wrote...
I don't know, I read a lot, many different typs of books and maybe i got to appreciate when the writer purposefully leaves gaps in the story so i can fill it in myself, if i have a good day, i will judge motives to be honourable, when i have a bad day same passage can lead me to doubt at the honesty of the person, every coin has two sides and sometimes i like to have the option to chose for myself not having it cemented so completely that there is no room for my choices at all. Maybe this is why I do not see the holes everyone keeps talking about.. i have filled them as i played along, i did not need them drawn out with an arrow explaining it all.

Are these stories you read "choose your own adventure" stories? That would be more applicable. I mean, technically, you're looking at it from a perception that this is a linear storyline... take it or leave it. That defeats the pourpose of "multiple endings". In honesty, it doesn't matter what ending you're given, you'd fill in the blanks how you want and you'd like it.

You are impossible to displease. With "chooseyour own adventures" if there's only one ending.... especially one that thematically is against the adventures you chose, there's an abrupt feeling of lack of continuity. Now,if they have a whole new ending, that's not going to denounce your "it was a great artistic triumph ending" but instead add to it giving more endings and hopefully give those fans that didn't like the ending the creators wanted a sense walking away from the game, a sense that it was all worth it.

If more than 80% of the fans are unpleased with the ending, it might just be a pretty bad ending.

[takfar]

So, I spent a lot of time collecting my thoughts on this and typing them up on Kotaku. I decided I'd post them here for easier access and recollection. Here it goes (preemptive tl;dr: I like the ending, but I think it should have been one of many, and I think a prologue is necessary):


---Initial Thoughts: it's good, but not good enough. Interactivity.---

Just finished it yesterday, and I mostly liked the ending, as the closing of a science fiction story. The problem, however, is that this game trilogy is not a common story. It's a piece of interactive storytelling in which the player has affected, for a long time, the outcomes of many events, and in a way, shaped the world around him/her. The  fact that those choices are basically unaccounted for is, I think, the weakest point in the ending.

The first big problem comes with the Military Strength rating and its effect in the world. It's a big tally of all the efforts the player has managed to unite, and it's supposed to have an actual effect in the battle taking place during the last chapter of the game. What it does, however, is simply affect which choices are given to the player in the last decision, which makes no sense whatsoever. A much better way to do it would be to have each step of military strength help in the path to reaching these decisions.


---Here's an example list of 8 possible endings---

> If you are militarily very weak, the assault on earth would fail (cinematic: forces being overwhelmed after the Relay jump), and you'd get a "bad" ending in which the reapers would take over earth, and then the galaxy, as they planned. (Ending 1 - Reapers win. All records of previous civilizations are lost.)

> If you are weak, you'd manage to land, but the hammer's assault would fail, leading to a final stand in London, in which you'd be able to leave a record of what happened and hide it somewhere, similar to what the Protheans did, so the next cycle might be luckier and have a better chance of fighting off the Reapers. (Ending 2 - Reapers win. Better luck next time, organics.)

> If you have average Strength, you'd make it to the Citadel, but by that time the galactic forces would have dwindled. During the conversation with the Illusive Man, you'd realize you were physically under his control, as in the current ending, and, as he re-explained his plan to control the reapers, you would would be given two conversation choices, to either:
     \\----Refuse (Paragon), at which point he'd force you to kill yourself, and you'd be unable to react to his control. With you (or, rather, Shepard - or so I hope) dead, he would then try to control the reapers himself (which would not work, since he's already being controlled by them, as explained in the current game ending) (Ending 3 - Reapers win. Your stubborness got the better of you, and it costed the whole galaxy)
     \\----Go along with his plan (Renegade). Still under his physical control and with a gun to your head, you manage to make contact the with the Citadel's intelligence. Recognizing you are not indoctrinated, the Catalyst lets you take control  over the Reaper forces. Shepard is absorbed into the Citadel. Reapers take off from Earth. Mass Relays explode. The Citadel explodes, taking out The Illusive Man with it.  It is revealed Shepard is now incorporated into a newly-constructed Human/Reaper shell, created inside the Citadel with the people harvested from London. As you observe the debris of the battle and the rejoicing galactic forces, you remember the Illusive Man's plan: here's a chance of making humanity the ruler of the galaxy. You can choose to attack all the remaining alien ships (Renegade) (Ending 4 - You control the reapers, Humanity is the only military power left in the galaxy), or just retreat with the Reapers back into deep space (Paragon), to watch over the Galaxy and intervene if needed (Ending 5 - You control the reapers and watch over the Galaxy)

>If you have high military strength, the current ending would play out almost as it does now. During the conversation with The Illusive Man, you could agree to control the Reapers (go to Ending 4 or 5). If you refused, he'd try to force you to kill yourself, but Hackett, who had been hearing your conversations, would have gathered the remaining forces outside and would launch a directed strike, making the citadel rumble, and making TIM temporarily lose his grip over you. At this point, your squadmates, who had also come through the beam would appear in the room*. TIM would try to control all three of you and Anderson, but it'd be too much for him, and you'd shoot him dead right there. Mortally wounded, Shepard would send his companions away and access the console. After going up alone, you'd get the conversation with the Catalyst and be able to freely choose between Destruction, Control or Synthesis. (Endings 6, 7 and 8 - the cycle is broken)

*the squad's appearance is not really needed - the idea is that, since you have greater military strength, you can have more external cooperation during these final moments, but Hackett's strike could be enough to resolve the control situation

If Endings 6, 7 or 8 happened (that is, in the current game situation), the issue of interactivity could be further helped by a game epilogue, showing exactly how the player's world (that is, the one specifically created by the player's actions) reacted to the events in the ending. It would be a good way to make Shepard's choices relevant again. This epilogue would, naturally, have to be radically different for each of the three ending options (ie. Reaper Shep with the Control decision, truly dead shep with Synthesis, alive Shep being rescued with Destruction) and then visibly different for each of the major decisions taken throughout the trilogy. It'd show the fates of all surviving squadmates, and the repercussion of the events on each of the major races.

I reckon the developers might even have thought about doing all these things, but may have had to cut it due to time/money constraints. Here's what I think: make it now and most players will pay for it. Make it and release it for free, and all players will love you a lot more.


---Outstanding questions---

So yes, that's how the ending could be improved by adding stuff to make it more interactive. There's more to it, tho. Another problem I see with the current ending is how a lot of new things show up and are never explained, thus seeming arbitrary and gratuitous in the context of the story. I get the whole "suddenly, we're in a new, deeper, reality" thing, with the superior intelligence and all. We've seen it in 2001, on The Matrix, and several other science fiction pieces. Given how the game has been unfolding its mythos, however, some questions deserved, if not a straight answer, at least a hint of how it works in the grander scheme of things. To name a few:

- Where did the entity that takes the form of the Vancouver boy come from? Is that really where the "cycle" comes from, or does the cycle have deeper roots?
- What does the order/chaos dynamic he talks about mean?
- What is this force, that's so powerful it can reassemble the structure of all living and synthetic things in the galaxy, combining them in a new type of life form (and how the hell does that work?)
- Why is it that, if destruction is chosen, the energy must destroy all synthetics, and not just the reapers? Especially since the "boy" says synthetics will certainly be developed again?
- Why did the release of the Crucible's energy have to destroy every mass relay?


---The relays are gone - a new saga coming?---

Regarding the destruction of the Mass Relay network, I see it as a way to close the series and hint as a new beggining for a new universe. Mankind has had contact with the whole galaxy, its planets and races, for three decades, and then it all goes dark (I'm assuming the cross-galaxy quantum-entangling communications also disappear with the relays). Until the technology is developed again, everything that happened in these thirty years, including Shepard's incredible journey, will slowly grow into a "legend" (as the post-credits sequence hints). It might take 100 or 200 years for mankind to be able to reach the other clusters again, a time during which a lot can change in human and alien societies (remember: in the end of ME3, Earth, Palaven and Thessia have been practically destroyed by the Reapers, Tuchanka is still a wasteland, and Rannoch is deserted, so a lot of rebuilding is going to have to happen).

With that situation, the next saga in the ME universe (another RPG series? or maybe an MMO? who knows...), taking place many decades (or even centuries) after the first trilogy, could be about the rediscovery of alien civilizations, and about making people believe in the legend of Shepard and in how all those races once rallied under one banner and were united against a single enemy.


---Kotaku's Questions---

1) Are a "good ending" and a "satisfying ending" the same thing?
Not necessarily. People have invested a lot of time empowering their character (over 100 hours over the course of the three games, in my case), and they want to see all that work come to fruition. However, life does simply not work that way. **** happens that's out of anyone's control, and sometimes all you can do is the best you can with what you're given. That's what Shep had to do in the end.

2) Do you think the final choice encapsulates the greater themes of the Mass Effect series as a whole?
Yes. Well, two of them, anyways. The largest theme, which gets revealed late in the first game, is the cycle of galactic destruction brought forth by the Reapers, as well as the apparent inevitability of this cycle (which, I suppose, can be related to the inevitability of death of individuals, which is touched upon by the stories of aging Mordin and terminally ill Thane, and in some other talks during the game with Legion, EDI and Garrus). Of course the whole trilogy is about breaking the inevitability of the cycle, which can only be brought about by taking one of the three choices presented in the ending (all of which carry heavy consequences: in the case of Destruction, it kills all synthetics, and it's a risk of making the galaxy plunge into the chaos the cycle was meant to avoid; In case of synthesis or destruction, the main consequence is the death, or at least the loss of the current physical form of shepard - and if you choose control, the synthetics will forever be enslaved to whoever controls them, which is, apparently, shep)

The other large theme is the conflict between organic/synthetic life. This one is pretty well covered. Synthetic life is inherently dangerous to organics, and organics (given their irrational urges) are dangerous to each other and to the galaxy itself. Even the synthetics created by these civilizations, given time, can grow sentience and start taking courses of action that are apparently illogical (the theme of many conversations with EDI. Also: "Does this unit have a soul?"). Given all of this, someone, sometime, has decided that the only way to stop the galaxy from going into perpetual chaos, is to have a form of single-minded synthetic life (the Reapers) exert constant control over all organic civilizations, by harvesting them and wiping them out cyclically.

The one theme that was prevalent throughout the trilogy and that seemed to be mostly untouched (except in the short post-credits) is the theme of believing, or faith. ME1 was about convincing people of the threat of Sovereign. ME2 about getting them to believe the threat of the Reapers as a whole. ME3 was about getting people to believe that they could destroy all life, but also that they could be defeated, if different civilizations managed to unite together, and trust that the Crucible could work (and that Shep could make it work). So yea, there could have been a bit more talking about this often-mentioned, seemingly blind, faith and hope sustained by Shepard over the series.

Ahem... I think I overextended myself tho, right? This was supposedly to be a simple and short answer and I just spent about 3 hours collecting and typing in my thoughts. Goes to prove what a great piece of work the ME trilogy is, and how it affected me (and many others).

Modifié par takfar, 24 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[CuseGirl]

jeweledleah wrote...

and there I JUST managed to bring myself to pick up my second import.  was going to actualy attempt to play her and mean it, doing sidequests and scanning and all.

I guess there goes what's left of my trust in bioware. selective feedback ignoring is not a good move for the future.  

::sigh:: it's a REAL chore. I got pretty much every side question asset outside of the Cerberus Ciphers. I got all the scans, found the Elcor Flotillas, the Alliance and Asari frigates. I couldn't do the Hanar dimplomat question with Kasumi because of the black screen glitch. But even with all that, the only difference between my first go-round and the 2nd was I got the deep breath in the rubble. 

[Delkarnu]

ME3 twitter

"We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all"

You say you are listening, but you are clearly not understanding.

Your ending (singular, there was really only one) is not artistic, it is not thought-provoking, it is not satisfying.

It is complete and uteer crap, it destroyed all the themes of the trilogy, and is a slap in the face to your consumer base.

Closure and clarity were only a small part of what was lacking.

We want endings that reflect our choices throughout the series not one ending fits all. You can't slap a band-aid on disembowelment.

Listen, yes, but also try to understand.

[mi55ion]

Numdenu wrote...

mi55ion wrote...

*snip*

I don't know, I read a lot, many different typs of books and maybe i got to appreciate when the writer purposefully leaves gaps in the story so i can fill it in myself, if i have a good day, i will judge motives to be honourable, when i have a bad day same passage can lead me to doubt at the honesty of the person, every coin has two sides and sometimes i like to have the option to chose for myself not having it cemented so completely that there is no room for my choices at all. Maybe this is why I do not see the holes everyone keeps talking about.. i have filled them as i played along, i did not need them drawn out with an arrow explaining it all.

Okay, I'm super curious now. What's your take on the endings and how did you fill in the "holes"? We might get some good ideas out of this to throw around.

There is no short way of explaining it, it would literally take a book to put it all together and explain how i percieved it all. Perhaps if you pose a direct question to one of the holes, i can elaborate the way it got filled of it's own accord as i played through it.

[die-yng]

Delkarnu wrote...

ME3 twitter

"We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all"

You say you are listening, but you are clearly not understanding.

Your ending (singular, there was really only one) is not artistic, it is not thought-provoking, it is not satisfying.

It is complete and uteer crap, it destroyed all the themes of the trilogy, and is a slap in the face to your consumer base.

Closure and clarity were only a small part of what was lacking.

We want endings that reflect our choices throughout the series not one ending fits all. You can't slap a band-aid on disembowelment.

Listen, yes, but also try to understand.

Very rude, but also very true.

[jeweledleah]

I was reading through all that "inevitability of death" talk above.

and mention of Thane and his fate in ME3 kinda made me laugh actualy. aside from the fact that they brushed off multiple possibilities of cure that were hinted at in ME3, as well as the fact that loyal, especially romanced Thane is not so ok with his "inevitable death anymore"

he lives long past the time that was given to him by the doctors. I believe he said that his favorite gave him 3 months? 7 months ago.. and he STILL has enough energy left to fight Kai Leng. with a great deal of success.

he defies death. its one of the primary themes in Mass Effect, this defiance. not the inevitability of it, on the contrary. again and again, Shepard and those around him/her DEFY death, DEFY inevitability. they refuse to accept status quo, they refuse to just go with it. in all 3 games, the importance of choice is emphasized, the importance of doing the right things, NOT just going with the flow. the importance of FIGHTING against the injustice and winning. Jack never accepts her fate. she escapes and survives. when she is abused, she gets even. Miranda runs away from her father and his inevitable control. not only that - she gets her sister out as well. Kaidan, instead of drugging up on red sand - deals with his migraines and serves. Ashley, instead of giving up and rolling over, fights against the reputation her family name holds.. and succeeds. Wrex, who had almost given up on his people, after working with Shepard - goes back to Tuchanka and UNITES the clans. something though impossible. Mordin adopts a new view on Genophage. he even admits that he was wrong if you confront him at the shroud.

there are so many examples in a game of going agaisnt the grain, pushing fighting agaisnt "inevitability" that I'm still not sure how could anyone derive that the game is about accepting it.

[Dreadnaught98]

@Takfar: Couldn't of possibly have put it better myself. I think that sums things up pretty well. The plots holes are there, Bioware can redeem themselves if they just fill them in somehow. They built this game around choice and the power and consequences that come with the choices you make. The ending, in my opinion, contradicted this. Bioware has no excuses, they have no reason to get all defensive. All they have to do is fix what we all can agree they broke. Whether they meant for this to happen or not is irrelevant.

[mi55ion]

thefallen2far wrote...

mi55ion wrote...
I don't know, I read a lot, many different typs of books and maybe i got to appreciate when the writer purposefully leaves gaps in the story so i can fill it in myself, if i have a good day, i will judge motives to be honourable, when i have a bad day same passage can lead me to doubt at the honesty of the person, every coin has two sides and sometimes i like to have the option to chose for myself not having it cemented so completely that there is no room for my choices at all. Maybe this is why I do not see the holes everyone keeps talking about.. i have filled them as i played along, i did not need them drawn out with an arrow explaining it all.

Are these stories you read "choose your own adventure" stories? That would be more applicable. I mean, technically, you're looking at it from a perception that this is a linear storyline... take it or leave it. That defeats the pourpose of "multiple endings". In honesty, it doesn't matter what ending you're given, you'd fill in the blanks how you want and you'd like it.

You are impossible to displease. With "chooseyour own adventures" if there's only one ending.... especially one that thematically is against the adventures you chose, there's an abrupt feeling of lack of continuity. Now,if they have a whole new ending, that's not going to denounce your "it was a great artistic triumph ending" but instead add to it giving more endings and hopefully give those fans that didn't like the ending the creators wanted a sense walking away from the game, a sense that it was all worth it.

If more than 80% of the fans are unpleased with the ending, it might just be a pretty bad ending.

 I can easily be displeased, and i can dislike something with greate ease then liking it.

Wilde said once.. there is no such thing as a good or a bad book, books are either well witten or badly written, that's all.
This story was well written, a tragic story. The fact that there are many different endings or shall i say many different paths leading to the same destination does not diminish the quality of the work. And yeah it is a linear story, you all seem to fail to understand that for each character, and their personality (if i chose to play paragon, or renegade, be mean or be good) the story will move in a very systematic way, people generally play in extremes and sometimes mixed and just make do with the grays.. that one playthrough is linear it has it's beginning and an end. what the developers did was to offer you a different path should you not like to be a knight in shiny armour but prefer to play as a warlord. eaither way, both of these characters would in essence have a very linear story, for Wrex can either be alive or dead, you can't have both in one playthrough (tho i bet the  Schrodinger's Cat in the Box would strongly disagree on this one) .

The fact is, people like heroes who end up saving the galaxy and living hapily ever after.. not everyone would accept this as a viable conclusion to the greatest threat a galaxy has faced without at least a sacrifice or two. I got it - drama, tragedy and a glimmer of a better future. My Shepard didn't die in vain.