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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#9951
die-yng

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mi55ion wrote...

Numdenu wrote...

mi55ion wrote...

*snip*

I don't know, I read a lot, many different typs of books and maybe i got to appreciate when the writer purposefully leaves gaps in the story so i can fill it in myself, if i have a good day, i will judge motives to be honourable, when i have a bad day same passage can lead me to doubt at the honesty of the person, every coin has two sides and sometimes i like to have the option to chose for myself not having it cemented so completely that there is no room for my choices at all. Maybe this is why I do not see the holes everyone keeps talking about.. i have filled them as i played along, i did not need them drawn out with an arrow explaining it all.


Okay, I'm super curious now. What's your take on the endings and how did you fill in the "holes"? We might get some good ideas out of this to throw around.


There is no short way of explaining it, it would literally take a book to put it all together and explain how i percieved it all. Perhaps if you pose a direct question to one of the holes, i can elaborate the way it got filled of it's own accord as i played through it.



If I might chime in, I see the passive way Shepard acts and his acceptance of Star Child's idiotic ideas as an attempt to show how totally burned out emotionally and physically Shep is at this point.
It is fatalistic acceptance, because he/ she just can't fight anymore.
Also, I think the Normandy's flight is just a vision Shep has before he/ she dies, because it could never make any sense otherwise.

Sorry, don't want to butt in, but this has been running around my head sometime, to explain why Shep acts all OOC in the end.

#9952
CerberusMolecularNetwork

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die-yng wrote...

I think BW is in for a nasty surprise if all they offer is some clarification. That's not what most people want.
If they think that is what people want, then regardless of this thread's title, they just don't listen.

All I can say is, I might somehow be able to accept an ending that is more logical and fills the plotholes, while adding closure by revealing a bit of the future both of important people and the Galaxy.

But I wouldn't pay any money for it, this is the least they can do, the very least. And I would still think very hard before I ever spent money on anything connected with BW or EA ever again.

I would pay, and gladly, for any DLC that reduces the existing ending to one of many and offers everything from stoping the reapers, while earth burns and all your friends and Shep are dead, to Earth being rebuildable, a solution for the stranded fleet (a positive solution, not the Krogans killing and eating everyone else), most of your squad surviving and you making a  buncha blue babies, or adopting some with Miranda, whatever floats your boat.

This full spectrum of endings is what was promised and this is what I want.
Don't start with this not  being realistic. A team that cani nclude s many things from the previous games in this one can also do the same for the ending, if BW and EA are willing.

And even if I'm only one, I would still hold the line alone, with all the pathos I can muster.:lol:


I completely agree with you! If BW thinks that a "cheap fix" could solve the current ending's issues, then I am sorry, but I won't buy it!
On the other hand, If they're willing to deliver something awesome, (what they promised us in the first place), then I'll gladly pay for it.

#9953
ShadowpwnLord

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Cacos Revan wrote...




Please fix the ending.

I do not mind buying DLC if its content
for the game, but I should not need to buy a DLC to have the ending
of one of the best games in gaming history.




Thank you for your time &
understanding.
Cacos Revan.


Exactly. Closure is the biggest issue I and many others have. Just knowing if our sacrifice was worth it would be enough for many, and if our LI and friends made it okay. Of course, Bioware DID promise more of a variety of endings, not the "A, B, C" ones we got, which they specifically said they wouldn't. Dragon Age Origins, for example, had like 5 or 6 different endings if I recall. C'mon Bioware, your fans KNOW you can do better than this, don't let EA ruin it for you.

#9954
weltraumhamster89

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This:

jeweledleah wrote...

I was reading through all that "inevitability of death" talk above.

and mention of Thane and his fate in ME3 kinda made me laugh actualy. aside from the fact that they brushed off multiple possibilities of cure that were hinted at in ME3, as well as the fact that loyal, especially romanced Thane is not so ok with his "inevitable death anymore"

he lives long past the time that was given to him by the doctors. I believe he said that his favorite gave him 3 months? 7 months ago.. and he STILL has enough energy left to fight Kai Leng. with a great deal of success.

he defies death. its one of the primary themes in Mass Effect, this defiance. not the inevitability of it, on the contrary. again and again, Shepard and those around him/her DEFY death, DEFY inevitability. they refuse to accept status quo, they refuse to just go with it. in all 3 games, the importance of choice is emphasized, the importance of doing the right things, NOT just going with the flow. the importance of FIGHTING against the injustice and winning. Jack never accepts her fate. she escapes and survives. when she is abused, she gets even. Miranda runs away from her father and his inevitable control. not only that - she gets her sister out as well. Kaidan, instead of drugging up on red sand - deals with his migraines and serves. Ashley, instead of giving up and rolling over, fights against the reputation her family name holds.. and succeeds. Wrex, who had almost given up on his people, after working with Shepard - goes back to Tuchanka and UNITES the clans. something though impossible. Mordin adopts a new view on Genophage. he even admits that he was wrong if you confront him at the shroud.

there are so many examples in a game of going agaisnt the grain, pushing fighting agaisnt "inevitability" that I'm still not sure how could anyone derive that the game is about accepting it.



#9955
hchadw

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Master Che wrote...

Make the ending live up to the quality that the game established: resolution and clarity.

I hope the team has a clear vision for the end and didn't box themselves into a corner; now relying on our feedback to figure a way out.

I want an ending that tells u the fate of the races, ur friends, the galaxy and Shepard based on ur actions from all 3 games.

Marauder Shields cannot be the last boss battle; I want Harbinger! I WANT HARBINGER!! *rolls up sleeves*. You saw what these guns did to Sovereign!!! HELL IN A CELL!!!


yeah i wanted to take on harbinger too................ he rags you all the way through the ME2 game and even in the arrival content.. you spoke with him..

Shepard says Harbinger is comming and has a good bit of interaction with harbinger in ME2 but not a Peep in ME3... even when your facing him down toe to toe...................... and by that i mean Harbinger has a really BIG toe.


................but no boss fight.... just the ADHD God child that thinks he knows it all. That i cant punch in da grill like a reporter.

#9956
jeweledleah

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mi55ion wrote...


The fact is, people like heroes who end up saving the galaxy and living hapily ever after.. not everyone would accept this as a viable conclusion to the greatest threat a galaxy has faced without at least a sacrifice or two. I got it - drama, tragedy and a glimmer of a better future. My Shepard didn't die in vain. 



and that's fine, but why should everyone else be forced to.  you may play the same shepard over and over, but the thing is, we were given tools to create very unique shepards, with different personalities, outlooks, strategies.  through dialogue and choices in quest resolution, choice of friends, choice of lovers- we were given an opportunity to define our characters in a great variety of ways.  so why are we stuck being raleroaded into conlcusion that doesn't fit our shepards, story that we didn't sign up for?

where are our promised choices?  promised consequences?

and I don't know, but Thane, Mordin, Legion and Anderson dying is already 4 personal sacrifices, not to mention families of all the people you've come to care about.  everyone goes trhough loss and if you bother to talk to people, its brought home againt.  and again.  and again.

but there's also hope.  untill those last 10 minutes.

and incidentaly, according to Dr Chakwas and EDI - Shepard is not a blend of synthetic and organic DNA.  brain functions are fully organic, and its just synthetic implants,  like more sofisticated version of defibrilators people use even today.  so scientificaly, green ending doesn't work.  especialy with harder sci-fi, which is what Mass Effect aspiring to be.

its pure symbolism.  and personaly, I'm too down to earth, to used to reading Harry Harrison and the likes of him, to just accept pseudo-science i na wolrd that writes out detailed codex entires about exactly how everything works.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 24 mars 2012 - 12:42 .


#9957
Numdenu

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die-yng wrote...

mi55ion wrote...

Numdenu wrote...

mi55ion wrote...

*snip*

I don't know, I read a lot, many different typs of books and maybe i got to appreciate when the writer purposefully leaves gaps in the story so i can fill it in myself, if i have a good day, i will judge motives to be honourable, when i have a bad day same passage can lead me to doubt at the honesty of the person, every coin has two sides and sometimes i like to have the option to chose for myself not having it cemented so completely that there is no room for my choices at all. Maybe this is why I do not see the holes everyone keeps talking about.. i have filled them as i played along, i did not need them drawn out with an arrow explaining it all.


Okay, I'm super curious now. What's your take on the endings and how did you fill in the "holes"? We might get some good ideas out of this to throw around.


There is no short way of explaining it, it would literally take a book to put it all together and explain how i percieved it all. Perhaps if you pose a direct question to one of the holes, i can elaborate the way it got filled of it's own accord as i played through it.



If I might chime in, I see the passive way Shepard acts and his acceptance of Star Child's idiotic ideas as an attempt to show how totally burned out emotionally and physically Shep is at this point.
It is fatalistic acceptance, because he/ she just can't fight anymore.
Also, I think the Normandy's flight is just a vision Shep has before he/ she dies, because it could never make any sense otherwise.

Sorry, don't want to butt in, but this has been running around my head sometime, to explain why Shep acts all OOC in the end.


Well, that part certainly makes sense. Shepard's tired, bleeding out, and at her wit's end as to HOW TO STOP THESE DAMNED REAPERS. If she argues, she might bleed out and die mid-sentence or something, and then the Crucible wouldn't do jack ****....

But while this closes that hole, it also highlights the break the endings have from the themes of the rest of the series. So what if you bleed out mid-sentence? You should still be able to make that attempt to prove the Catalyst wrong. Shepard knows that one way or another, it's just a few. More. Moments. And then it's over.

The whole "just plain tired and dying" thing also brings up another possibility for a response to the Godchild: "As long as they're stopped, I just don't care." This would be where Shepard is so worn down that she just tells the Godchild that as long as organic species aren't being slaughtered wholesale, it doesn't matter, do what you think works best. I'm going to die anyway. Just make it all worthwhile, and I don't care about the details. The end.
If BioWare wanted to keep a fatalistic ending, this would be it.
Thoughts?

#9958
DuncanId

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mi55ion wrote...

think of it this way, no book has ever been written without the reader having to read between the lines, some even make it specifically so, just so that every person can alter how things are percieved and how they play out in sequences not completely shown. thus everyone can interpret it to their own liking.

and.. come on.. being stranded on a planet teeming with life doesn;t sound as bad as you put it, i'm sorry to say but would you starve if all the supermarkets closed? no you wouldn;t, there is fruit growing on the trees, there are rivers filled with water.. the planet they crashed on did not at all look barren and desolated to suggest they would die of starvation. maybe they would become farmers if there was a distinct lack of technology, but they are smart people and i am sure they would know how to pick a fruit and eat it.

as for the DNA alteration.. well, it's a sci-fi story, if i can have people traveling faster then light then they can have some combination of mixed DNA sequences.. and well in the end, Reapers were indoctrinated and controlled, they can be forgiven for what they did. this is why i let Quarians die against Geth, They simply refused to accept Geth and live alongside them, whilst Geth kept records and 'hoped' that Quarians would eventually accept them and let them live along side them. so well, to me, it fitted, same as all physics says you can;t have faster then light travel, we still like the concept, i take it as such too.

so yeah, i filled the story to fit with my experience and how i saw it right from the begining, left me thinking for days.. i was gutted it had to end with Commander's sacrifice but content and happy because of it.

As for other LI's, well that's just the thing, i played 1 and 2 more then 10 times each and every time i made same choices and accepted same directions.. like a movie, or a book, i can;t rewrite it, it's what it is.. shepard became who she was and i could not change it, that is not to say i did not do on latter playthroughs a save a picked a different option just to see what happens, but i had to reload and still chose the same options i always made for Shepard. Its just the way it happened to me. The game played itself, i was there for the ride.

maybe because i, right from the start, saw Shepard as an idividual who makes her own choices despite me pressing buttons, that i accepted her faith for the way it came. I hoped for 'saving the galaxy and lived happily ever after' but in the end that would have made it quite a cliche, and i kind of felt i needed this to end tragically yet with knowledge that it was not in vain, and i got that.

like in the Steppenwolf, from Herman Hesse, he gets laughed out of court for bringing a reality into the magical theatre and killing a reflection of a girl with a reflection of a knife, not to mention having his right of entrance revoked for a day. come on, that was a psychological representation of non existent reality yet in his mind it was very real, and as a reader we accept this for we know it's a book and a story which leaves us with more questions then we get answers for.. yet that's what it's all about, to question, to delve deep into it and find our own solutions, our own reasoning and what it all means to us. everything else is just words on the paper.

I don't know, I read a lot, many different typs of books and maybe i got to appreciate when the writer purposefully leaves gaps in the story so i can fill it in myself, if i have a good day, i will judge motives to be honourable, when i have a bad day same passage can lead me to doubt at the honesty of the person, every coin has two sides and sometimes i like to have the option to chose for myself not having it cemented so completely that there is no room for my choices at all. Maybe this is why I do not see the holes everyone keeps talking about.. i have filled them as i played along, i did not need them drawn out with an arrow explaining it all.


As I said, I have no problems with you filling the blanks. Precisely because everyone does in a wayr or another. I envy that, as I can't do that with this particular ending and that ruins the whole experience to me. In my playthrough I saved both geth and quarians, mostly because I could (if I have a choice, I like to save everyone) so that changes a lot of things. And I played the first two games many times in different ways, and if I have to find an explanation to one ending, later I would have to find a different explanation for the same ending, and somehow that doesn't work.

The problem with being stranded is that garrus and tali can't eat the same food as the other species, so either they die, or so do the other members of the crew.

And yes, it's a scifi story, but that doesn't mean they can do anything. If yoy want to add space-magic (that being actual magic or just a technology too advanced to understand), you need to establish that since the begining, not in the last minute. And many times it works the orther way. In star wars they had the force as some kind of magic power, but later they tried to give a scientific explanation, and it didn't work. In Star Trek they have "magic" (Q or the prophets) but it's stablished since the beginning that it's only something that highly evolved beings can do. You have to respect your own rules, or give a really good explanation on the exception. Yes, we have suspension of disbelief (sound in space, FTL, the crucible shockwave being FTL), but everything (and everyone) has it's limits.

But hey, you liked the ending, I'm cool with that. I liked both bunraku and dragon ball evolution so, who am I to judge?

#9959
Delkarnu

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Modifié par Delkarnu, 24 mars 2012 - 01:41 .


#9960
GoddessLunatic

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jeweledleah wrote...

mi55ion wrote...


The fact is, people like heroes who end up saving the galaxy and living hapily ever after.. not everyone would accept this as a viable conclusion to the greatest threat a galaxy has faced without at least a sacrifice or two. I got it - drama, tragedy and a glimmer of a better future. My Shepard didn't die in vain. 



and that's fine, but why should everyone else be forced to.  you may play the same shepard over and over, but the thing is, we were given tools to create very unique shepards, with different personalities, outlooks, strategies.  through dialogue and choices in quest resolution, choice of friends, choice of lovers- we were given an opportunity to define our characters in a great variety of ways.  so why are we stuck being raleroaded into conlcusion that doesn't fit our shepards, story that we didn't sign up for?

where are our promised choices?  promised consequences?

and I don't know, but Thane, Mordin, Legion and Anderson dying is already 4 personal sacrifices, not to mention families of all the people you've come to care about.  everyone goes trhough loss and if you bother to talk to people, its brought home againt.  and again.  and again.

but there's also hope.  untill those last 10 minutes.

and incidentaly, according to Dr Chakwas and EDI - Shepard is not a blend of synthetic and organic DNA.  brain functions are fully organic, and its just synthetic implants,  like more sofisticated version of defibrilators people use even today.  so scientificaly, green ending doesn't work.  especialy with harder sci-fi, which is what Mass Effect aspiring to be.

its pure symbolism.  and personaly, I'm too down to earth, to used to reading Harry Harrison and the likes of him, to just accept pseudo-science i na wolrd that writes out detailed codex entires about exactly how everything works.


my thoughts exactly.

#9961
hchadw

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GoddessLunatic wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

mi55ion wrote...


The fact is, people like heroes who end up saving the galaxy and living hapily ever after.. not everyone would accept this as a viable conclusion to the greatest threat a galaxy has faced without at least a sacrifice or two. I got it - drama, tragedy and a glimmer of a better future. My Shepard didn't die in vain. 



and that's fine, but why should everyone else be forced to.  you may play the same shepard over and over, but the thing is, we were given tools to create very unique shepards, with different personalities, outlooks, strategies.  through dialogue and choices in quest resolution, choice of friends, choice of lovers- we were given an opportunity to define our characters in a great variety of ways.  so why are we stuck being raleroaded into conlcusion that doesn't fit our shepards, story that we didn't sign up for?

where are our promised choices?  promised consequences?

and I don't know, but Thane, Mordin, Legion and Anderson dying is already 4 personal sacrifices, not to mention families of all the people you've come to care about.  everyone goes trhough loss and if you bother to talk to people, its brought home againt.  and again.  and again.

but there's also hope.  untill those last 10 minutes.

and incidentaly, according to Dr Chakwas and EDI - Shepard is not a blend of synthetic and organic DNA.  brain functions are fully organic, and its just synthetic implants,  like more sofisticated version of defibrilators people use even today.  so scientificaly, green ending doesn't work.  especialy with harder sci-fi, which is what Mass Effect aspiring to be.

its pure symbolism.  and personaly, I'm too down to earth, to used to reading Harry Harrison and the likes of him, to just accept pseudo-science i na wolrd that writes out detailed codex entires about exactly how everything works.


my thoughts exactly.


Agreed ! 

#9962
dointime85

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Since it is obviously not intended to make major changes, I would just like to add a very modest proposal. Restore the lines in the Catalyst conversation that were cut between the script leak in November and the final version. Here's what I take from then that was better than what we got:

In it, the catalyst seems less like some kind of god but more like an pre-body-edi-like ai or even vi with limited capabilities which was created for a specific task that it cannot fulfill anymore (the slight changes of the exact words make it clearer: "The Crucible has altered my function. I can't proceed" vs "The Crucible has changed me (...) new possibilities. I can't make it happen"). In another line, it also makes it clear that it has lost control over the Reapers and they will continue harvesting without Shepard making a decision. Shepard must take the catalyst's place. I'm also not sure if the destruction of the relays was intended for any other but the destroy option.

The changes from this version are subtle, but I find it nevertheless a pity that they were made. I must say that seeing the catalyst as a very limited AI/VI that is now basically out of function reduces my moral outrage with the scene. I see it less as a god that I feel the to tell to f*** off but as a program that was created to find a solution for a problem. It found the solution, but the solution to the question was a horrible one (reminds me of "I, Robot"). The catalyst seems also to be more distinct from the Reapers which makes the fact that he gives us the choice (and all the quotes from Sovereign and Harbinger) much more believable.

Modifié par dointime85, 24 mars 2012 - 12:47 .


#9963
The Ubermensch

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 an ending with shepard alive is great! only reapers killed nothing more and reunited with the team like everyone else want!

#9964
The Ubermensch

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also make that no mass relays are destroyed!

#9965
hchadw

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dointime85 wrote...

Since it is obviously not intended to make major changes, I would just like to add a very modest proposal. Restore the lines in the Catalyst conversation that were cut between the script leak in November and the final version. Here's what I take from then that was better than what we got:

In it, the catalyst seems less like some kind of god but more like an pre-body-edi-like ai or even vi with limited capabilities which was created for a specific task that it cannot fulfill anymore (the slight changes of the exact words make it clearer: "The Crucible has altered my function. I can't proceed" vs "The Crucible has changed me (...) new possibilities. I can't make it happen"). In another line, it also makes it clear that it has lost control over the Reapers and they will continue harvesting without Shepard making a decision. Shepard must take the catalyst's place. I'm also not sure if the destruction of the relays was intended for any other but the destroy option.

The changes from this version are subtle, but I find it nevertheless a pity that they were made. I must say that seeing the catalyst as a very limited AI/VI that is now basically out of function reduces my moral outrage with the scene. I see it less as a god that I feel the to tell to f*** off but as a program that was created to find a solution for a problem. It found the solution, but the solution to the question was a horrible one (reminds me of "I, Robot"). The catalyst seems also to be more distinct from the Reapers which makes the fact that he gives us the choice (and all the quotes from Sovereign and Harbinger) much more believable.



Yeah i had read a rumor ... cant remember where .... but a few places im sure.   that stated there was a different ending and some mention of some kind of leak.............  Is that why they MILFED the ending so bad.  I had found this

http://www.strategyi...ffect-3-endings

Not sure if thats related but yeah anyone have any links to other discussion about the "changed" ending?

What happened to Dark Matter ?.....Tali's Tests on Haestrom??   there is alot mentioned in one of the books too, talking about Dark Matter/ Energy

Modifié par hchadw, 24 mars 2012 - 12:51 .


#9966
mi55ion

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die-yng wrote...

If I might chime in, I see the passive way Shepard acts and his acceptance of Star Child's idiotic ideas as an attempt to show how totally burned out emotionally and physically Shep is at this point.
It is fatalistic acceptance, because he/ she just can't fight anymore.
Also, I think the Normandy's flight is just a vision Shep has before he/ she dies, because it could never make any sense otherwise.

Sorry, don't want to butt in, but this has been running around my head sometime, to explain why Shep acts all OOC in the end.


that 'vision' you refer to can be one way of interpreting the odd OOC behaviour on Shep's end. In the final moments of sacrifice, Shepard could have invisioned how it would end given the sacrifice and his/her inability to see how it really will turn out in the end.

equally, take a look at our bible, it talks of some supreme being creating the universe and people in 7 days.. or how there was a big bang and supposedly may be a big crunch to start a new cycle .. primordial goo becoming complex over millions of years.. there are stories of how our universe or life came to be, some outrageous some more acceptable to us given what we believe in.

equally, the very last bit, the story told by an old man to his presumed grandchild sounds very much like this, an unbelivable story of how their life came to be.. maybe it's all just a myth and as such does not need logical explanation what so ever.

#9967
takfar

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Dreadnaught98 wrote...
@Takfar: Couldn't of possibly have put it better myself. I think that sums things up pretty well. The plots holes are there, Bioware can redeem themselves if they just fill them in somehow. They built this game around choice and the power and consequences that come with the choices you make. The ending, in my opinion, contradicted this. Bioware has no excuses, they have no reason to get all defensive. All they have to do is fix what we all can agree they broke. Whether they meant for this to happen or not is irrelevant.


Thanks. Based on what they did in the whole series, I really think they might have planned more ending sequences, but those might have been cut due to time or resource constraints. I'd rather they have cut something else, tho (eg. the multiplayer), but that's just me. Despite the letdown with the ending, I still love the game, and the trilogy as a whole.

Modifié par takfar, 24 mars 2012 - 12:55 .


#9968
Kenta Shuuichi

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I, personally, am willing to trust Bioware. They have seen what the fanbase wants, there is no way they would try and get away with less. Not only have they always listened to the fans, they also have proven themselves able to write enticing stories. No, I dont believe they would sacrifice both things for some kind of stubornnes or "trying to troll". Its not their MO.

#9969
hchadw

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takfar wrote...

Dreadnaught98 wrote...
@Takfar: Couldn't of possibly have put it better myself. I think that sums things up pretty well. The plots holes are there, Bioware can redeem themselves if they just fill them in somehow. They built this game around choice and the power and consequences that come with the choices you make. The ending, in my opinion, contradicted this. Bioware has no excuses, they have no reason to get all defensive. All they have to do is fix what we all can agree they broke. Whether they meant for this to happen or not is irrelevant.


Thanks. Based on what they did in the whole series, I really think they might have planned more ending sequences, but those might have been cut due to time or resource constraints. I'd rather they have cut something else, tho (eg. the multiplayer), but that's just me. Despite the letdown with the ending, I still love the game, and the trilogy as a whole.




Yeah i agree with that too... I feel very strongly that this multiplayer may have moved valueble resources from making the complete games they have made in the past... Seems Multiplayer/DLC/Money was in front of Completing the Epic Saga

#9970
mi55ion

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DuncanID, don;t forget.. if you chose the new DNA mix ending thing, then the life and plants and all species would have similarities to their environment making them very much so edible to all of them.. thus their previous differences would not make any differences and surviving Quarians would be able to get out of their suits for once ..

#9971
takfar

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the greatest threat a galaxy has faced without at least a sacrifice or two.


Is it really, tho? The catalyst says the Reapers were created as a solution to some form of Chaos that arose from letting civilization go on unchecked for too long. If he was telling the truth, something worse than the Reapers might be coming in the future, if shep destroys the reapers.

#9972
hchadw

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Kenta Shuuichi wrote...

I, personally, am willing to trust Bioware. They have seen what the fanbase wants, there is no way they would try and get away with less. Not only have they always listened to the fans, they also have proven themselves able to write enticing stories. No, I dont believe they would sacrifice both things for some kind of stubornnes or "trying to troll". Its not their MO.


I hope your right... I love this company and this series... I have told so many friends and family .. and hell people i just met that ask what i do for fun...

I just hope "MO"ney   hasnt compromised their original  "MO"

Like making complete Interactive Movie/Story/Games.

They have made a catagory of their own.... i just hope to god they dont blow it on the home stretch!

#9973
CuseGirl

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hchadw wrote...

Yeah i had read a rumor ... cant remember where .... but a few places im sure.   that stated there was a different ending and some mention of some kind of leak.............  Is that why they MILFED the ending so bad.  I had found this

http://www.strategyi...ffect-3-endings

Not sure if thats related but yeah anyone have any links to other discussion about the "changed" ending?

What happened to Dark Matter ?.....Tali's Tests on Haestrom??   there is alot mentioned in one of the books too, talking about Dark Matter/ Energy


That still sounds like a bad idea. That's still introducing a MAJOR concept or plot device late in the game. And maybe it's because I'm not a Tali fan but I don't think Tali's experiments on Haestrom would ever be so central to the plot or ending.

#9974
die-yng

die-yng
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Numdenu wrote...

die-yng wrote...

mi55ion wrote...

Numdenu wrote...

mi55ion wrote...

*snip*

I don't know, I read a lot, many different typs of books and maybe i got to appreciate when the writer purposefully leaves gaps in the story so i can fill it in myself, if i have a good day, i will judge motives to be honourable, when i have a bad day same passage can lead me to doubt at the honesty of the person, every coin has two sides and sometimes i like to have the option to chose for myself not having it cemented so completely that there is no room for my choices at all. Maybe this is why I do not see the holes everyone keeps talking about.. i have filled them as i played along, i did not need them drawn out with an arrow explaining it all.


Okay, I'm super curious now. What's your take on the endings and how did you fill in the "holes"? We might get some good ideas out of this to throw around.


There is no short way of explaining it, it would literally take a book to put it all together and explain how i percieved it all. Perhaps if you pose a direct question to one of the holes, i can elaborate the way it got filled of it's own accord as i played through it.



If I might chime in, I see the passive way Shepard acts and his acceptance of Star Child's idiotic ideas as an attempt to show how totally burned out emotionally and physically Shep is at this point.
It is fatalistic acceptance, because he/ she just can't fight anymore.
Also, I think the Normandy's flight is just a vision Shep has before he/ she dies, because it could never make any sense otherwise.

Sorry, don't want to butt in, but this has been running around my head sometime, to explain why Shep acts all OOC in the end.


Well, that part certainly makes sense. Shepard's tired, bleeding out, and at her wit's end as to HOW TO STOP THESE DAMNED REAPERS. If she argues, she might bleed out and die mid-sentence or something, and then the Crucible wouldn't do jack ****....

But while this closes that hole, it also highlights the break the endings have from the themes of the rest of the series. So what if you bleed out mid-sentence? You should still be able to make that attempt to prove the Catalyst wrong. Shepard knows that one way or another, it's just a few. More. Moments. And then it's over.

The whole "just plain tired and dying" thing also brings up another possibility for a response to the Godchild: "As long as they're stopped, I just don't care." This would be where Shepard is so worn down that she just tells the Godchild that as long as organic species aren't being slaughtered wholesale, it doesn't matter, do what you think works best. I'm going to die anyway. Just make it all worthwhile, and I don't care about the details. The end.
If BioWare wanted to keep a fatalistic ending, this would be it.
Thoughts?


Hmmmm. I would think that her acceptance to choose one of star child's options is about as fatalistic as Shepard can get.
I think even at this point, while she might accept the choices, she would still try to choose what she deems best.

The problem is, that the whole idea of Shepard being this way goes against the character, even if Bioware intented it that way.

On the other hand, I had similar experiences playing 1 and 2, I first played a full stop paragon and wante dto go more into renegade in later playthroughs... I couldn't do it, most of the renegade decisions were things I could never imagine Shepard doing. The best I could manage was a Paragade with only about a quarter renegade points (I don't know if this even qualifies...).
Now in 3, for one of my Shep's I decided she was already at her limits at the end of 2, so she started to choose renegade options more and more often and for the first time I could really see Shepard going this way.
She even shot Mordin and betrayed Wrex!!!! There's a kind of desperation in ME3, an atmosphere that makes me think, even a Shepard that started with the best intentions could do some pretty terrible things if neccessary.
F.E. saving Admiral Koris, while letting his crew die, I don't know if a Paragon Shepard would have been able to do this in one of the earlier games.

I don't know if I'm expressing this right, I think that in a way, regarding the situation we're in, Shepard might act differently than we expect him/ her to.

That being said I still hate the ending with a passion, but to keep on enjoying the game and the Universe I have to find a way to at least live with the ending.

#9975
hchadw

hchadw
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CuseGirl wrote...

hchadw wrote...

Yeah i had read a rumor ... cant remember where .... but a few places im sure.   that stated there was a different ending and some mention of some kind of leak.............  Is that why they MILFED the ending so bad.  I had found this

http://www.strategyi...ffect-3-endings

Not sure if thats related but yeah anyone have any links to other discussion about the "changed" ending?

What happened to Dark Matter ?.....Tali's Tests on Haestrom??   there is alot mentioned in one of the books too, talking about Dark Matter/ Energy


That still sounds like a bad idea. That's still introducing a MAJOR concept or plot device late in the game. And maybe it's because I'm not a Tali fan but I don't think Tali's experiments on Haestrom would ever be so central to the plot or ending.


It was supposed to be a major plot point in the begining.   All the tests that where being done at Noveria .   Synthetic Insites, Binary Helix.      Even that internal affairs chick makes a comment in ME2 that here supiriors are wanting her to now look into Dark Matter. Some kinda Galactic Security Thing......

Even the Qurians thought is was important.     Mabe The reapers are linked to DarkMatter/Dark Energy.

Hell Starwars has the Dark and Light side of the force.

Point is that it was brought into and talked about in both the first and second games and then...............ME3 ......... No mention of it!

Harbinger Taunts you and instults your species and all organics for that matter ALL throught ME2 and is supposed to be the biggest and the oldest of the reapers and yet Harbinger has no part at the end other than lasering you and then taking off............................hell he dosnt even talk...thats all i heard

Shepard Resisting will get you know where

We are infinitly your Greater.

Shepard you must die

We will bring you into ascension



ME3......................... Harbinger is a MUTE!

Modifié par hchadw, 24 mars 2012 - 01:03 .