23455 réponses à ce sujet

[knmedic]

Hello, I'm just another fan. I was blown away by the narrative of this series, fell in love with the characters, and enjoyed the ride the trilogy offered through multiple play throughs and hundreds of hours of gameplay. And then I made the mistake of not letting Maurauder Shields kill me, insteady choosing to down him and enter the beam of light.

I'm not going to rant and rave. It's all been said already. I'll keep my reactions rather simple by instead posting what I did immediately after each game in the series.

ME1: immediately replay as a Renegade. Then again as a different class (Engineer) just to have fun. 3x total
ME2: immediately replay with my previous Renegade. Then again as my Engineer to try and beat the game on Insanity (succesful) 3x total
ME3: uninstalled all three games. 

Seriously.

[dipdunk]

Stygian1 wrote...

ElrondDragon wrote...

dipdunk wrote...

 I realize I'm a little late to the party here (page 395 already?), but here are my thoughts (
http://imgur.com/LV6Qo) on the ending in graphic form because I'm better at making that sort of thing than a wall of text.

support!!!

Even more support! BioWare, please listen. 

Thanks.  I think that it's a bit too much of an overhaul to hope for, but it would make a world of difference.

Modifié par dipdunk, 24 mars 2012 - 01:04 .

[DuncanId]

mi55ion wrote...

DuncanID, don;t forget.. if you chose the new DNA mix ending thing, then the life and plants and all species would have similarities to their environment making them very much so edible to all of them.. thus their previous differences would not make any differences and surviving Quarians would be able to get out of their suits for once ..

That's too convenient for me to accept. Besides I can't even buy that DNA mixing.

And if you choose any other ending, the end result is the same.

Too many plotholes for me.

Edit: Oh, and my shepard would never play being god in that way. For him the only viable choice is destruction as control has the name Ackbar all over it, the blender is against the teachings of the great Mr Spock and destruction is genocice but at least there's the chance that the reaper overlord is lying about killing the geth. I really miss the option to show the finger to the kid and go away...

Modifié par DuncanId, 24 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[dointime85]

dointime85 wrote...

Since it is obviously not intended to make major changes, I would just like to add a very modest proposal. Restore the lines in the Catalyst conversation that were cut between the script leak in November and the final version. Here's what I take from then that was better than what we got:

In it, the catalyst seems less like some kind of god but more like an pre-body-edi-like ai or even vi with limited capabilities which was created for a specific task that it cannot fulfill anymore (the slight changes of the exact words make it clearer: "The Crucible has altered my function. I can't proceed" vs "The Crucible has changed me (...) new possibilities. I can't make it happen"). In another line, it also makes it clear that it has lost control over the Reapers and they will continue harvesting without Shepard making a decision. Shepard must take the catalyst's place. I'm also not sure if the destruction of the relays was intended for any other but the destroy option.

The changes from this version are subtle, but I find it nevertheless a pity that they were made. I must say that seeing the catalyst as a very limited AI/VI that is now basically out of function reduces my moral outrage with the scene. I see it less as a god that I feel the to tell to f*** off but as a program that was created to find a solution for a problem. It found the solution, but the solution to the question was a horrible one (reminds me of "I, Robot"). The catalyst seems also to be more distinct from the Reapers which makes the fact that he gives us the choice (and all the quotes from Sovereign and Harbinger) much more believable.

Small Addition:
In my opinion, it would be better to give the catalyst a more neutral, Avina-like avatar. I don't see the purpose behind using the child. It only creates confusion and everyone has grown to hate that brat.  ;-)

Modifié par dointime85, 24 mars 2012 - 01:07 .

[Cross429]

Ok: either a completely idiotic mistake, or evidence for the Indoctrination Theory:

Ever wonder how the ghostboy knew at the end of the game to manifest as the character Shep had seen die?

If he's just a Reaper and Shepard is unindoctrinated, how does this Reaper channel his dreams and memories to "construct" an image of what haunts Shep? One way or another, it's inside his mind.........

On the other hand, if Shepard's Indoctrinated, then the "boy" is either a fiction (supported by the fact that Anderson doesn't hear him in the events, when he "flees" we hear a Reaper scream, when he boards the shuttle no one helps him, etc.), or the Reapers are in his mind and can thus know the boy image will have an impact on Shep.

There doesn't seem to be a middle ground. Either Bioware used a nuclear missle to blow open a plot hole, or IT holds....

[Dan Dark]

I originally posted this in a different thread, but that one seems to be getting a bit buried; as this seems to be the main thread for discussing the ending"s" anyways, though, I figured I should repost it here. Like I briefly mention in there, though, I do have some additional ideas - a couple ways to, in my opinion, dramatically improve the ending, without needing to completely scrap the whole thing... I'll write those up for another post.

Dan Dark wrote...

Having given the ending some thought over the past 48 hours, since I first finished the game... I was okay with it, at first, but it continued to gnaw away at the back of my mind; I didn't get much sleep, and, pathetic though this may sound, I was so focused on this rather than work the day after that I choked up and had to excuse myself to the back room for a couple minutes. The thought that this is how they wanted to end this series that we have poured so much time into.. this setting and characters who we have come to love so strongly... the thought that they actually tried to end it this way is just appalling depressing to me, and, dare I say, outright insulting.

I'm still completely baffled how anyone on their team thought this ending would be a good idea. There's just so
many problems with it: a deus ex machina in the last five minutes, spouting circular logic (logic that you may have already proven to be flawed through your actions earlier in the game), a complete lack of any meaningful closure, and, of course, let's not forget the plotholes and space magic! I can tolerate the base ideas of the Control and Destroy options, but Synthesis? That just does not make any sense. AT ALL. There's also the teleporting squadmates, and your entire crew acting out of character... most of them were on the ground, with you. And even if they could somehow teleport back to the Normandy, why would they? They've all followed Shepard to hell and back once already - why would they suddenly abandon Shepard now? And why is the Normandy running? Did
Joker - the man who picked up an assault rifle to provide cover fire for you during your escape from the Collector base, despite the fact that the recoil could potentially kill him, due to his brittle bone disease - suddenly turn into a coward? The "starchild" sequence is confusing, but the Normandy scene afterwards makes no sense at all, as
all the characters involved are depicted horribly out-of-character.

There's so much more I could say, too, but, I imagine this specific thread may not actually be the proper spot for it, so, I'll try to wrap this up. I don't care if Shepard dies - I fully expected a majority of the endings would involve Shepard sacrificing him/herself to save everyone else. At the same time, though... If I have done everything I possibly can, and done everything right, not only in this game, but the first two as well... I want there to at least be a chance for Shepard to live. I want there to be a happy ending. I don't want it to be easy, mind you - it should be the single most difficult ending to unlock - but it should still exist. Don't get me wrong, heroic sacrifice, done right, could be great, but with the whole game largely being as bleak as it is, it'd be nice to have that chance of a bright point at the end. (And I'll be honest - yeah, it is because I want my Shepard to be able to have "little blue spacebabies" with Liara. Especially since they were not together until ME3; they never had that talk, and as such he never got the chance to make that promise to her... I want them to be able to have that talk, to be able to make that promise, and to be able to keep  it. Also, haven't these characters suffered enough? Liara went through hell once already after losing Shepard at the start of ME2... it doesn't seem fair for her to have to go through that all over again. And further, if anyone'd want to say it's impossible for there to be a happy ending... Since when has something being impossible ever stopped Commander Shepard?)


One last note, then. "Artistic integrity." I really wish people would stop throwing that phrase around as if it somehow gives people a right to directly ignore and insult their fans. Because everyone claiming changing something like this would somehow "compromise" their "artistic integrity" should really go take an art history class sometime. I have no problem with considering video games as art; but calling something art does not suddenly mean it cannot be changed due to feedback. Most art has traditionally been produced on commission, a contract between an artist and a patron to produce something - should the final product not meet the expectations
of the patron, the artist would be obligated to modify their work to please the patron, or accept that they will not be paid for their work. The only difference here is that we no longer get the priviledge of fully experiencing the works before having to pay for them. If they want to call it art, by all means, go right ahead - but understand that in doing so, you are expected to live up to the expectations of your patrons. Especially since this was not created as art for art's sake, but to generate a profit, and further was only possible due to the widespread support for the prior two titles. It could then be argued that we actually commissioned Bioware to create Mass Effect 3, through our support of the first two installments of the series, and as such, we are not neccesarily acting "entitled" when we say we have a right to demand a satisfactory conclusion - we are simply being realistic.

...sorry if this went a little off-topic. I've tried a couple times to compose my thoughts, but it kept taking too long, since I kept starting over... it needed to be said, though. I needed to say my piece, add my voice... and now I have.

Modifié par Dan Dark, 24 mars 2012 - 01:14 .

[Madgey]

Just want to throw my support in for an ending DLC here!

The game was perfect in almost every way until THAT ending.
Best parts of the game? Chilling with Garrus at the top of the Citadel, the relationship (LI or friend) between him and Shep is the best I've seen in any game. Finally getting to cure the genophage, taking down a reaper on foot on Rannoch, getting drunk with Chakwas, the banter with Vega. Loved it all.

I really hope you manage to clarify the end in a way that's true to the series. Too many new concepts were introduced at the end and the introduction of the God Child was just weird. I hope you run with something that will actually let me see the Reapers getting destroyed, as it stands I got something that I can only assume was a dream/indoc sequence and a couple of seconds of the Reapers fritzing and falling over. There was no satisfaction to the end unlike in 1 and 2 where I felt like a goddamn badass for walking out of the citadel/collector base with my head held high and the enemy thoroughly and definitively stomped on.

The ending was so poorly managed that I can only assume you guys had something up your sleeve from the start. I have faith that your DLC will have Shep finishing the game like the hero she is.

[thefallen2far]

mi55ion wrote...

 I can easily be displeased, and i can dislike something with greate ease then liking it.

Wilde said once.. there is no such thing as a good or a bad book, books are either well witten or badly written, that's all.
This story was well written, a tragic story. The fact that there are many different endings or shall i say many different paths leading to the same destination does not diminish the quality of the work. And yeah it is a linear story, you all seem to fail to understand that for each character, and their personality (if i chose to play paragon, or renegade, be mean or be good) the story will move in a very systematic way, people generally play in extremes and sometimes mixed and just make do with the grays.. that one playthrough is linear it has it's beginning and an end. what the developers did was to offer you a different path should you not like to be a knight in shiny armour but prefer to play as a warlord. eaither way, both of these characters would in essence have a very linear story, for Wrex can either be alive or dead, you can't have both in one playthrough (tho i bet the  Schrodinger's Cat in the Box would strongly disagree on this one) .

The fact is, people like heroes who end up saving the galaxy and living hapily ever after.. not everyone would accept this as a viable conclusion to the greatest threat a galaxy has faced without at least a sacrifice or two. I got it - drama, tragedy and a glimmer of a better future. My Shepard didn't die in vain. 

 
Isn't that a bit pretentious.  You like it, you think it's well written, someone else doesn't like it, they don't "get it"... it's well written. 

[zczachor]

BioWare how much more time in Your opinion people need to feel this game in full and all aspects?
I have already finish it three times and yes I am working 9h a day. I am not teenager who have lot of free time. And I can say that I did experience game in full. Three times.
And I am quite sure everyone did.
So it's now time to give competent answer about ending.

[jeweledleah]

zczachor wrote...

BioWare how much more time in Your opinion people need to feel this game in full and all aspects?
I have already finish it three times and yes I am working 9h a day. I am not teenager who have lot of free time. And I can say that I did experience game in full. Three times.
And I am quite sure everyone did.
So it's now time to give competent answer about ending.

they plan on announcing whatever their plans are at PAX east.  looked up their schedule looks like Mass Effect panel is at 4:30 pm  (standard eastern time?  cannot find the timezone info)

Modifié par jeweledleah, 24 mars 2012 - 01:55 .

[kinjo1971]

I don't see a problem with getting the best ending ONLY if you have played all 3 games......I think that should honestly be a pre-requisite to getting the best ending.  

If Bioware does change the ending, this would be a reward in my opinion to the players that put the time and effort into these series.

Modifié par kinjo1971, 24 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[Calaveth]

Let's say for sake of the argument that the indoctrination theory is correct (and I happen to think that it is). If that is what Bioware plans to build upon, what can they realistically bring us that will be satisfactory?

For me, it would at the very least require Shepard standing up out of the rubble, having overcome Harbingers indoctrination. I'd like a boss fight, but if they want to skip forward to Shepard activating the Crucible, that's fine too. The red, blue or green choices at the end of the current game belong in Shepard's fever-adled brain, not as the final choice deciding the fate of the galaxy. It's just not worthy of Shepard, not worthy of the story that has taken us up to this point.

And if Bioware reveals that it wasn't indoctrination, it wasn't a dream, it all happened, you know Shepard would not accept those three choices presented by what might just as well be the mouthpiece of Harbinger. S/he would find the fourth option.

[Kenta Shuuichi]

Dont try to rush them. While Im as ecstatic as most (if not more), I dont see how putting more pressure on the developers will help our point any. They are working on it, that's, for now, quite enough.

Besides, they have said we'll have some news on April, so we should be civil and patient until then. It will pay off.

[Hydralysk]

Just going to post this here bioware, since it's a great summation of the opinion on new endings that most people from BSN support and reflects my personal opinion almost exactly.

The ending we want (A complete summarization) *gets updated*

[Benchpress610]

This video has probaly been posted here, but it's worth posting it again. It's hilarious

 

[f1ndmenow]

It is not a suggestion but rather an analysis of why the endings cause rash action and it is not at all destructive but rather useful I hope you can read this, pretty please do.

http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

[darkreed]

Long time ME player.

ME1 Completed: PC x2, 360 x4
ME2 Completed: PC x2, 360 x3, PS3 x2
ME3 Completed: PC x1

I am ok with current ending in story and in dialog.
Only three requests.
1 - Remove normady chase/crash.
2 - Add in simple text pages in place which explains what happened with fight, alliance and crew.
3 - It would be interesting to see a list of casualties maybe of keypeople from the series through the games based on descission that was made.

Thank you and have a good one^^

[meezookeewee]

darkreed wrote...

Long time ME player.

ME1 Completed: PC x2, 360 x4
ME2 Completed: PC x2, 360 x3, PS3 x2
ME3 Completed: PC x1

I am ok with current ending in story and in dialog.
Only three requests.
1 - Remove normady chase/crash.
2 - Add in simple text pages in place which explains what happened with fight, alliance and crew.
3 - It would be interesting to see a list of casualties maybe of keypeople from the series through the games based on descission that was made.

Thank you and have a good one^^

I like this idea.  Only thing I would change is number 2.  Instead of just text, do something like Dragon Age Origins and have a visual montage as well as text explaining the aftermath.

[Archonsg]

No matter what happens, ME3 will be known as the game that Bioware truly screwed the pooch when the firstly ignored everything they said, claimed and advertised. Then to top it all off arrogantly pointed out to their core fans, in not so many words, " You people don't understand art, look at the "professional reviews, they all gave the game high scores and had no problem with the game's ending."
Reviwers, whom we all know had to tread the fine line of not pissing off their advertising client, and face an embargo in future releases and material.

So, your biggest fans, not just a handful, but well over 100,000 not only raised well over $30,000 for charity to raise awareness of the issues of the game's ending (singular) issues and all you do is mock us? And yes I read the blog entry and statement by Dr. Muzyka. Defend your title by all means but ignoring and dismissing the core compliant that right at the end, all our choices didn't matter and that Bioware will try to release content to make the current ending more palatable to your fans is missing the point.

The ending as is, not only deprives everyone who has played the series from the start true resolution based on the choices they made but anyone who is intelligent enough to have understood just how thin the thread the alliance between each and every galactic entity that they have beyond all odds gathered and united, knows without a doubt that with the destruction of all Mass Relays, if for some miraculous reason did not just vaporised all habitable planets, would bring about the extinction of many of the known races.
Blatant ending screen of grand father and child seconding as a not so subtle message to go and buy more DLCs, notwithstanding.

Just admit that you were wrong, that the ending did not make sense both "scientificically" as far as the science fiction you have created goes and from the story at large from the series' point of view.

Re-write. Give us multiple endings, and yes, there should be a "triumphant" ending as well as one where everything goes to hell.

[bane tartarus]

well, 400 pages. wow.
im a bit late for the party but ill just drop for a bit and join in with the request for a decent ending for this great series. there is not much i can say that as not been said already. some people like the end as it is, far more dislike it (way more). like knmedic above, i played and replayed ME1 and 2 several times, absolutly loved ME 3, but the ending removed any desire to replay them, such was the bitter taste the end left in my mouth

[Luzarius]

Two Thoughts

1. What happened to the normandy? Taking damage? The jungle planet? What is going on?
2. How did shepard get back down to the rubble on earth to take that breathe?

Other than that I was highly entertained and loved every second. By the time the credits were over I thought it would of been nice to have an epilogue that talked about all the other characters or what the after math was like when the mass relays were destroyed (something like the end of DAO).

Conclusion?

A little bit more explanation & closure would of been perfect, no need to change anything. Just need more info please.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

Modifié par Luzarius, 24 mars 2012 - 02:31 .

[Haiyato]

I really hope more is added with the ending. It would be a real shame if this was the real ending because it honestly just fell flat compared to ME1 and ME2.

I was hoping for the happy ending (shepard, squad mates and LI survive.Paragon, Choice, and EMS based), the glorious self sacrifice ending (Squad and LI survives. Paragon, Choice, and EMS based), middle ending (squad members can die. Choice and EMS based ), the really bad ending (everything goes south for everyone Choice and EMS based). The trilogy can end successfully with Shepard living or dying.

NO rewrite is necessary. Honestly it could be expanded off the current situation in game.

[hchadw]

Luzarius wrote...

Two Thoughts

1. What happened to the normandy? Taking damage? The jungle planet? What is going on?
2. How did shepard get back down to the rubble on earth to take that breathe?

Other than that I was highly entertained and loved every second. By the time the credits were over I thought it would of been nice to have an epilogue that talked about all the other characters or what the after math was like when the mass relays were destroyed (something like the end of DAO).

Conclusion?

A little bit more explanation & closure would of been perfect, no need to change anything. Just need more info please.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

I would like to add to your sugguestion... (what about a fight with harbinger.......from what i know about plot lines and story movement wouldnt  Harbinger be the Antaginist (hope i spelled that right)     Why no fight with him.

He belittles you all game long in ME2................................. but in this one he is a deaf Mute Reaper .... what gives!

no boss fight ?    we can kill Un-Named Reapers in the campaign but cant gun for the one that actually talked to us and threatened us all throught the second game! (not to mention said character actually has a NAME = Harbinger)

Reaper with no name or past history with shepard talks with you after you kill it... but the Main Baddy or Key Bad Guy (Harbinger) has no speaking part and places no threats against shepard... not even in the end)

Either they messed up big time .............. or they have a big suprise!

I must not be indoctronated enough to see Biowares/the Reapers point of view?

Modifié par hchadw, 24 mars 2012 - 02:49 .

[Luzarius]

hchadw wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Two Thoughts

1. What happened to the normandy? Taking damage? The jungle planet? What is going on?
2. How did shepard get back down to the rubble on earth to take that breathe?

Other than that I was highly entertained and loved every second. By the time the credits were over I thought it would of been nice to have an epilogue that talked about all the other characters or what the after math was like when the mass relays were destroyed (something like the end of DAO).

Conclusion?

A little bit more explanation & closure would of been perfect, no need to change anything. Just need more info please.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

I would like to add to your sugguestion... (what about a fight with harbinger.......from what i know about plot lines and story movement wouldnt  Harbinger be the Antaginist (hope i spelled that right)     Why no fight with him.

He belittles you all game long in ME2................................. but in this one he is a deaf Mute Reaper .... what gives!

no boss fight ?    we can kill Un-Named Reapers in the campaign but cant gun for the one that actually talked to us and threatened us all throught the second game!

I must not be indoctronated enough to see Biowares/the Reapers point of view?

Well by the end of the game I thought harbinger was just a puppet of the catalyst which makes him insignificant.  All that came out of harbinger's mouth was "fear talk", "fear talk" but he never reasoned logically.  He seemed programmed, just another damn machine. That's my 2 cents.  I didn't need any closure there once the catalyst revealed that "it" was in control of the reapers.  The catalyst did the math. Eventually organics would win so he gave the choice to shep.  But there are two problems with this that I could really use closure on that I stated above.

[hchadw]

Luzarius wrote...

hchadw wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Two Thoughts

1. What happened to the normandy? Taking damage? The jungle planet? What is going on?
2. How did shepard get back down to the rubble on earth to take that breathe?

Other than that I was highly entertained and loved every second. By the time the credits were over I thought it would of been nice to have an epilogue that talked about all the other characters or what the after math was like when the mass relays were destroyed (something like the end of DAO).

Conclusion?

A little bit more explanation & closure would of been perfect, no need to change anything. Just need more info please.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

I would like to add to your sugguestion... (what about a fight with harbinger.......from what i know about plot lines and story movement wouldnt  Harbinger be the Antaginist (hope i spelled that right)     Why no fight with him.

He belittles you all game long in ME2................................. but in this one he is a deaf Mute Reaper .... what gives!

no boss fight ?    we can kill Un-Named Reapers in the campaign but cant gun for the one that actually talked to us and threatened us all throught the second game!

I must not be indoctronated enough to see Biowares/the Reapers point of view?

Well by the end of the game I thought harbinger was just a puppet of the catalyst which makes him insignificant.  All that came out of harbinger's mouth was "fear talk", "fear talk" but he never reasoned logically.  He seemed programmed, just another damn machine. That's my 2 cents.  I didn't need any closure there once the catalyst revealed that "it" was in control of the reapers.  The catalyst did the math. Eventually organics would win so he gave the choice to shep.  But there are two problems with this that I could really use closure on that I stated above.

I feel ya on what your saying...  
Soverign/Saren/Geth dogged ya the first game (Faced off against Antagonist)........................
Harbinger/Collectors/illusiveman in the second game..(faced off Human Reaper Hybrid and Harbinger)
plot left open for third game installment then we have  
Cerberus/Reapers/ (A Mute Delete UnCast Harbinger) and Everything else in 3rd game. (But no face off against main Antongist) and no closure. No final fight with harbinger................ really no final fight at all... just an argument at the end with a poorly intruduced last minute character (which is bad writing IMO.. ask any author)

there is still more wrong with it than your even stating... Im not saying your wrong ... but there is MUCH MUCH MUCH more wrong with how this ended than needing some prologue...

Dragon Age 1 and 2 sucked anyways IMO.... That was the redheaded Step Child team that didnt get to work on the FlagShip Masseffect series..

The lack of voice acting in the first Dragon Age game was a perfect example!

Modifié par hchadw, 24 mars 2012 - 02:57 .